For drivers with bad credit, new cars come with a kill switch

[aGameOfThrones]

Driving a car off a lot usually comes with a sense of exhilaration or freedom, but that thrill is short-lived when you've got a debt collector riding shotgun wherever you go. That's basically the case for a whole host of Americans with bad credit -- in use since the 90s, the New York Times reports that now some 2 million cars in the United States are outfitted with remote kill switches that shut cars down if their owners fall behind on payments. The system is simple enough: once installed, the so-called starter interrupt will sit in place and beep to notify drivers that their payments are coming up. Once delinquent drivers tiptoe past a certain threshold (which seems to vary by lender and state), some account manager somewhere hits a button and voilà -- that motor won't purr until someone pays.

As with most things that involve money and trust, there are a few ways to look at the situation. Lenders get to offer more loans (and collect waaaay more interest -- think twice monthly payments at 20 percent interest) while regular folk get to drive to work and pick their kids up from school. Sounds almost like a win-win... until you realize that beyond the sky-high rates, people's whereabouts are constantly forfeit -- some dealers have even installed GPS trackers without telling their customers -- and there's been at least once instance where a car was remotely disabled while someone was actually driving it. As John Oliver suggested for payday loans, maybe a better alternative to the buy-here, pay-here shops that use these methods is pretty much anything else.


http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/26/bad-credit-kills-cars/

[puppetmaster]

Makes sense to me. If I financed a higher risk borrower I would consider this.

[Anti Federalist]

Hmmm...remote operated kill switches that shut down your ever fucking computer cars from some remote location.

Where did I hear that before...?

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/i_told_you_so_stephen_colbert.gif

[Anti Federalist]

Makes sense to me. If I financed a higher risk borrower I would consider this.

"Hi, I'm customer agent Bill from MegaHyperCorp lending, we're here to install these surveillance cameras in your home in order to ensure that you are in compliance with all our lending policies".

[Natural Citizen]

"Hi, I'm customer agent Bill from MegaHyperCorp lending, we're here to install these surveillance cameras in your home in order to ensure that you are in compliance with all our lending policies".

Remember when Big Al Delvecchio used to say "Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep..."?

There was a thread on just this thing thing a couple of years ago if I remember. It may even have been one of yours.

Of course, the people will love them for it. They always do.

[CPUd]

This is being done on the buy here pay here lots, where they will finance anybody willing to put up their first born as collateral and pay by the week.

[Anti Federalist]

Remember when Big Al Delvecchio used to say "Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep..."?

Yep.

LOL

Well you have to laugh I guess, or "go Frein".

But of course, this is just the start, there will be, in the coming years, a million different reason to find to shut your car off.

Late on child support? Lock down.

Warrant issued? Lock down.

Asshole cop got the wrong name? Lock down

Exceeding your daily carbon ration? Lock down.

Sensors detecting erratic driving? Lock down.

I suspect all the "smart" toll booths will scan for "prohibited vehicles" and shut them down, in a safe, computerized braking maneuver, right into the waiting arms of law enforcement.

Hell, give it 20 years and the self driving cars will lock you in and drive you to the cop shop.

Demolition Man, here we come.

[Natural Citizen]

Yep.


Late on child support? Lock down.

Warrant issued? Lock down.

Asshole cop got the wrong name? Lock down

Exceeding your daily carbon ration? Lock down.

Sensors detecting erratic driving? Lock down.

I suspect all the "smart" toll booths will scan for "prohibited vehicles" and shut them down, in a safe, computerized braking maneuver, right into the waiting arms of law enforcement.

Hell, give it 20 years and the self driving cars will lock you in and drive you to the cop shop.

Demolition Man, here we come.

Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep....

[Anti Federalist]

This is being done on the buy here pay here lots, where they will finance anybody willing to put up their first born as collateral and pay by the week.

Yeah, right, that's the only place it's being done.

http://ldsrr91.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/you-want-it-when-cartoon.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep....

I liked him better as Murray the Cop, though.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edFocxTsUKI

[Anti Federalist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pne3xPlAflU

[CPUd]

Auto Dealer Has an Offer for Drivers With Bad Credit, but There's a Catch
By ROBYN MEREDITH
Published: August 30, 1999


A car dealer here is making a big push into leasing used cars to poor people with no credit or bad credit. But the deals come with streetwise terms: miss a payment and the car won't start.

The dealer, Mel Farr, the former Detroit Lions football player, leases the cars to anyone who can come up with at least $50 a week. The catch is that a payment is due every Friday and customers must pay up weekly to get a code they must punch into a device attached to the dashboard. Otherwise, the car stays parked.

Is Mr. Farr an angel for making cars available to those who otherwise could not afford them, for giving people a reliable way to get to work and an opportunity to re-establish their credit? Doing business with him isn't cheap: car buyers who qualify for bank loans can borrow at about 9 percent, and Mr. Farr charges more than twice that on comparable leases to customers with the coded device. Does that make him a vulture getting top dollar for old, beat-up cars by preying on those who have nowhere else to turn?

It depends on whom you talk to. Mr. Farr, the owner of the Mel Farr Automotive Group, says the unusual arrangement is a boon to inner-city residents who might otherwise have to rely on spotty public transportation -- or their feet. Customers seem to be generally satisfied, though two have filed a lawsuit contending that their engines shut down as they were driving the cars.


Mr. Farr's biggest supporters are among the country's political and economic elite. Prodded by the Rev. Jesse L. Jackson, Wall Street recently showered Mr. Farr's company, the biggest black-owned business in the United States, with $36.5 million in new financing that enables him to expand in urban markets. And in a public relations coup last month, President Clinton publicly thanked him for bringing cars ''to every community in this country.''

Some critics, though, portray Mr. Farr less as a do-gooder than an exploiter. ''It is a no-fault system of consumer oppression by an auto dealer who should know better,'' Ralph Nader said. ''It is an electronic form of consumer servitude.''

Mr. Nader objected to Mr. Farr's interest rates, which fall between 22 and 25 percent, and to his marketing to people so desperate for transportation that ''they'll take anything.'' He also worried about the danger of accidents if the devices malfunctioned.

...

In a telephone interview last week, Mr. Jackson defended Mr. Farr's unorthodox leases, saying that although the interest rates are high, they are legal and they are a good first step to providing credit where none is available now. ''As we seek to greenline these redlined zones, you must introduce access and then competition and then bring prices down -- that's the way our system works,'' Mr. Jackson said.

Since late June, when the deals were first offered, 280 people have signed up, most in Detroit and the rest in the Dayton, Ohio, area. None are behind on their payments, the company says. And many of those questioned about the leases seemed content.

''When you come in walking, you don't squawk,'' said Betty A. Ware of Detroit, who rode the bus to one of Mr. Farr's dealerships to lease a bright red 1995 Ford Aspire for $77 a week.


...

The lawsuit concerning the on-time device was filed by two women who blamed the contraption for shutting off their engines. The women, who had made their payments on time, are seeking revocation of their leases as well as unspecified damages, and they want the dealership barred from using the devices.

According to their lawsuit, the women were not told that their cars would carry the devices until after they had given the dealership their down payments.

Their lawyer, Kenneth N. Hylton Jr., said the women had gone separately to Mr. Farr's dealership to buy cars but had been told they lacked good credit and were instead steered toward leasing cars with the on-time device. ''They were desperate for transportation,'' he said.

...

To inspire customers to pay up, Mr. Farr shows them a video of himself giving money-management tips. Mr. Farr appears in his trademark tan suit and red cape and urges those on limited budgets not to waste money on fancy hairdo's, manicures, clothes or fast food. Those who pay on time for a year are promised the chance to trade up to a nicer car. So far, he says, many customers are paying three payments ahead of time, to be sure their cars will start.

''If you don't pay us, I'll do everything in my power to find you and take my car back,'' Mr. Farr says sternly in the video. ''So make the most of this opportunity.''

After all, he is. ''I see no competition,'' Mr. Farr said. ''They are customers that no one wants.''



http://www.nytimes.com/1999/08/30/us/auto-dealer-has-an-offer-for-drivers-with-bad-credit-but-there-s-a-catch.html

[Natural Citizen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pne3xPlAflU

Heh "You two guys untie each other"...

Murray solved the two party paradigm. He was always smarter than they made him out to be. :rolleyes:

[RonPaulIsGreat]

You'd think the kill switch would just prevent starting of the vehicle. They are going to get sued if they turn it off while driving, that can easily cause a death. Besides that I don't have a problem with it, as long as the installation is disclosed at signing, and by disclosed I mean verbally communicated.

However, I'm so glad I have zero loans for anything now, and I'll keep driving my 2001 jeep until it dies (probably within a year, transmission not shifting right), but I'll buy another vehicle with cash, and do the same thing. I'm completely over the debt based lifestyle. I'll walk first.

[Anti Federalist]

Heh "You two guys untie each other"...

Murray solved the two party paradigm. He was always smarter than they made him out to be. :rolleyes:

You know, he's still alive at 95, good for him.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Al_Molinaro_Murray_the_cop_Odd_Couple_1974.JPG/220px-Al_Molinaro_Murray_the_cop_Odd_Couple_1974.JPG

[CPUd]

You'd think the kill switch would just prevent starting of the vehicle. They are going to get sued if they turn it off while driving, that can easily cause a death. Besides that I don't have a problem with it, as long as the installation is disclosed at signing, and by disclosed I mean verbally communicated.

However, I'm so glad I have zero loans for anything now, and I'll keep driving my 2001 jeep until it dies (probably within a year, transmission not shifting right), but I'll buy another vehicle with cash, and do the same thing. I'm completely over the debt based lifestyle. I'll walk first.

The results from the 1999 lawsuit against Mel Farr:



Mel Farr Settles Lawsuit

Dealer can keep using On-Time Device; lease customers get coupons worth $200

Source: The Detroit News Publication date: 2000-06-22

DETROIT -- Auto dealer Mel Farr will continue to use the controversial On-Time Device in his leased vehicles despite the settlement of a class-action lawsuit. The high-tech dashboard devices, which automatically prevent vehicles from starting if the lessee is behind on payments, have been upgraded by California-based manufacturer Payment Protection Systems.

About 1,500 vehicles Farr has leased through Triple M Financing Co. to high-risk borrowers have the device installed.

Under the settlement announced Wednesday, the court will monitor Farr's use of the devices through the end of the year.

Customers who leased vehicles from June 1999 through May 2000 are entitled to $200 in coupons to cover vehicle repair costs, free inspections and an upgraded On-Time Device.

"This is a consumer protection case," said attorney Lawrence Charfoos, who represented the two women who filed the original lawsuit.

"The main reason for the case was to make sure it (On-Time Device) was safe and to disclose their rights as consumers."

Mandi Bergeron of Wixom and Chavela Jones of Detroit filed the suit in August against Mel Farr Automotive Group and Farr's Triple M Financing.

The women claimed the On-Time Device shut down their vehicles while they were driving.

In December, Wayne County Circuit Judge Kaye Tertzag denied the pair's request for $25,000 in damages and a void of their leases because he ruled they didn't prove the device caused the vehicles to shut down.

"It was a computer glitch initially in which the programing set the dates in a fashion that permitted early shutoff," said Ken Lewis, an attorney for Mel Farr. "That was corrected early on in the process.

"When we went through the schematic drawings and talked to the engineers and talked to the manufacturers ... you could not have a situation where the car would just cut off while the car was going," he said. "The wiring was set up in such a way as to avoid that problem."

Jim Potter, who leased a 1993 Dodge Daytona from Farr, said the device prevented him from starting his vehicle, although he said he had made his payment in time.

Potter, a "high-risk" customer, pays about 23 percent interest on the lease.

"It's important, whether you have tremendous credit or no credit, that you're treated fairly," said Potter, 37, of Clinton Township. "This has given me a new perspective on going to dealerships."


http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003N4n

[T.hill]

"Hi, I'm customer agent Bill from MegaHyperCorp lending, we're here to install these surveillance cameras in your home in order to ensure that you are in compliance with all our lending policies".

Is the market now considered involuntary association? Better make a law to force order and justice on the chaos that is the market. Or just don't associate with these people and find a more suitable provider of this service... Don't confuse market activity with coercion just because you observe a similarity in practice. One is still voluntary.

[DamianTV]

And only just 56% of the US has Sub Prime Credit... Its a Panopticon Dream Come True...

Now, just how long will it be before someone seriously proposes that PEOPLE should have Kill Switches installed as well?

[tod evans]

Now, just how long will it be before someone seriously proposes that PEOPLE should have Kill Switches installed as well?

Don't worry it'll only be "high-risk" people.....:rolleyes:

[Intoxiklown]

How exactly can disabling a starter suddenly cause a running engine to shut down?

Not defending this device, mind you. But this woman claims her car was damaged from this? More likely it was damaged from someone who didnt know what they were doing trying to remove it.

[kcchiefs6465]

How exactly can disabling a starter suddenly cause a running engine to shut down?

Not defending this device, mind you. But this woman claims her car was damaged from this? More likely it was damaged from someone who didnt know what they were doing trying to remove it.
I am not quite sure how they make the car shut off.

Perhaps the ECM affecting the TPS sensor?

I'd think CPUD and AF could rig up a solution, lol.

[69360]

These things are just a cheap aftermarket add on.

To defeat one is as simple as cutting it out and splicing the wire to the starter back together.

It would take me 2 minutes to remove it.

[squarepusher]

Hmmm...remote operated kill switches that shut down your ever fucking computer cars from some remote location.

Where did I hear that before...?

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/i_told_you_so_stephen_colbert.gif

free market at work?
If that happened to me I would seriously be looking at ways to disable that circuit.

[Dr.3D]

Too bad the DOD didn't think about using this in all of the equipment they donate to terrorists.

[Anti Federalist]

Is the market now considered involuntary association? Better make a law to force order and justice on the chaos that is the market. Or just don't associate with these people and find a more suitable provider of this service... Don't confuse market activity with coercion just because you observe a similarity in practice. One is still voluntary.

There's always one in a crowd.

Look, I've explained this too many times, and if you do not have the vision to see where this is heading, the fascist merger of government and the corporate world, I can't help you.

"Voluntary", my aching ass.

[ZENemy]

You'd think the kill switch would just prevent starting of the vehicle. They are going to get sued if they turn it off while driving, that can easily cause a death. Besides that I don't have a problem with it, as long as the installation is disclosed at signing, and by disclosed I mean verbally communicated.

However, I'm so glad I have zero loans for anything now, and I'll keep driving my 2001 jeep until it dies (probably within a year, transmission not shifting right), but I'll buy another vehicle with cash, and do the same thing. I'm completely over the debt based lifestyle. I'll walk first.


I came in here to say almost the same thing. I used to be a new car guy, trading cars in before paid off for newer cars ETC...

Glad that I went through it and am now over it. No loans, for me, again, ever.

[Anti Federalist]

Government Motors cars can be shut down through OnStar, which is, as far as I know, impossible to remove or disable as it forms an integral part of the car's ECM.

This has been since 2009.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/10/big-brother-or-big-help-onstar-2009-can-stop-moving-cars-via-satellite/

[Danke]

My ex came with bad credit but no kill switch.

[Philhelm]

My ex came with bad credit but no kill switch.

She has a kill switch - it's called her neck.

Anyway, what if a driver lawfully parks on a city street with designated parking times, and returns to find that the car can not be operated. If the car is left for several days, will it be ticketed repeatedly (if not towed)?

What if someone parks behind another persons vehicle and then become inoperable?

What if the technology fails and a vehicle is stopped while in transit?

What if someone is trying to escape D.C. police who are shooting at you?

[Anti Federalist]

I can fix this:

http://i.imgur.com/7G1jOKU.gif