California winery fined $115,000 for using volunteers; put out of business

[green73]

CASTRO VALLEY, CA — A small family winery has closed its doors after being fined $115,000 for allowing volunteers to help in the wine-making process.

“There’s just no money left; they’ve taken everything,” said Jim Smyth, one of the owners Westover Winery.

Unbeknown to the Smyth family — and many other California business owners — it is illegal in the state to use unpaid volunteers at a for-profit business.

Among the reasons cited by the California Department of Industrial Relations, was the fact that no income taxes were being collected on the volunteer labor.

The fines represent more than a decade’s worth of profits for the winery, which is open about 10 hours per week and nets about $11,000 a year, the San Jose Mercury News reported (http://www.mercurynews.com/my-town/ci_26541167/castro-valley-winery?source=social).

The volunteers were comprised mainly of people interested in the wine-making process, and helped out in exchange for valuable experience.

“That’s what I wanted, to be as involved as much as possible — it was all about learning,” said Peter Goodwin, one of the illegal volunteers. “I don’t understand the state’s action. It was my time, and I volunteered.”

No warnings were issued for the offense before the enormous fine was issued.

This tragedy is the embodiment of the institutionalized injustice that persists everywhere the government imposes an income tax. Such a policy stakes a claim of state ownership on the time and labor of every individual. It effectively makes it illegal for a person to willingly exchange his time for money — or in California’s extreme case, no money.

People are hard pressed to claim their freedom when voluntarism is outlawed; when they are forbidden from voluntarily exchanging one commodity for another without a portion being confiscated.

http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/westover-winery-fined-for-volunteers/

[oyarde]

Ca cannot have any labor where they do not collect tax.

[aGameOfThrones]

The volunteers were comprised mainly of people interested in the wine-making process, and helped out in exchange for valuable experience.


teacher and apprentice not welcome here.

[aGameOfThrones]

The volunteers were comprised mainly of people interested in the wine-making process, and helped out in exchange for valuable experience.


teacher and apprentice not welcome here.

[puppetmaster]

People should just show up and work still. What a great story having police arrest volunteer workers....

[heavenlyboy34]

You mean the Constitution failed to protect people again? You don't say! :eek: :(

[Brian4Liberty]

Yet the media and politicians all use unpaid interns...

[Brian4Liberty]

515261665453961216

[RJB]

Can't have apprentices who make half a salary, on-the-job-training, or volunteers to learn a craft. That's cruelty.

Instead, to be kind to the worker, make them pay and go into debt at an approved college then pay to work as slaves as interns-- under paying them is just wrong. Instead, make the workers pay.

That's how compassionate our government is

[Brian4Liberty]

If they were paying illegal immigrants $1/hour then there would have been no problems.

[green73]

If they were paying illegal immigrants $1/hour then there would have been no problems.

Ha!

[Anti Federalist]

“That’s what I wanted, to be as involved as much as possible — it was all about learning,” said Peter Goodwin, one of the illegal volunteers. “I don’t understand the state’s action. It was my time, and I volunteered.”

I'm sure you don't Pete, here, sit down and let me try to explain it to you:

First and foremost: You do not own you.

The state owns you, and all your property, and all your children and all your time and all your labor.

The state, bless its benevolence, allows you the privilege to rent all those things from it, during the course of your natural lifetime, plus about ten years after your death, depending on how much of the state's wealth you managed to accumulate to yourself over the course of those years.

You are, Pete, a slave, for all practical purposes.

Therefore the state has every right to dictate in which way you spend your time.

[PRB]

I'm posting this for every liberal who tells me raising wages doesn't hurt businesses or decrease employment.

[ClydeCoulter]

I sent an email expressing my displeasure with the CA Dept. of Industrial Relations (to the same). This just irked my gut! Links are at the end of the article.

[oyarde]

I sent an email expressing my displeasure with the CA Dept. of Industrial Relations (to the same). This just irked my gut! Links are at the end of the article.

I just quit buying anything from there , 17 yrs ago or so .

[56ktarget]

These laws are meant to prevent companies from colluding together and getting unpaid labor. Try again Paulites.

[oyarde]

These laws are meant to prevent companies from colluding together and getting unpaid labor. Try again Paulites.

There is no law needed. I am not working for nothing , but if anyone wants to , it is fine.

[ClydeCoulter]

These laws are meant to prevent companies from colluding together and getting unpaid labor. Try again Paulites.

That's the problem, though, isn't it? All of these "meant to" laws that fail at justice and equity.

They were trading value of a type that is not, currently, taxable was the stated reason. It had nothing to do with fairness toward the volunteers, or any one else.

[SilentBull]

Don't they know their time and labor aren't theirs to volunteer?

[Danke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pFC3LKMIQo

[aGameOfThrones]

These laws are meant to prevent companies from colluding together and getting unpaid labor. Try again Paulites.

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1244/7355/original.jpg

[Lord Xar]

These laws are meant to prevent companies from colluding together and getting unpaid labor. Try again Paulites.

WTF!! You can't be that ignorant, you just can't.

I would have GLADLY exchanged my services for valuable experience I put value on. IF I didn't not like the exchange, I LEAVE!!!! If I LIKE the exchange, I stay and use it to further my career, my hobby.. whatever.. How dare you presume to know what is right or wrong, or play the savior when all you have done is pollute the very nature of human exchange.

IN THE HEART OF EVERY LIBERAL, LIES A TYRANT.

[XNavyNuke]

A "feel good" news story from last year must have put the small vinyard on some Revenuer's radar.

My Town: Castro Valley: Westover Winery teaches all about its trade (http://www.contracostatimes.com/my-town/ci_24363244/castro-valley-westover-winery-teaches-all-about-its)

October 2013


Now he's focused locally, seeking a few committed area wine enthusiasts who want to learn the intricacies of turning grapes into wine. His new vocational program, "Small Vineyard and Winery Operations, Growing and Winemaking," is designed to teach all aspects of winemaking from the vineyard to the tasting room -- for free. It's a labor of love and unlike anything Smyth has encountered before, he said.

"This is designed to get a group of people in and train them how to run a winery from start to finish," Smyth said. "It's half classroom work and half hands-on."

Here's a local story on the Winery's problems from August this year before it got more widely known.

Use of Volunteers at Wineries Is Illegal (http://www.independentnews.com/news/article_1d0736a8-2844-11e4-b152-001a4bcf887a.html)


At least one local winery has been hit with fines and penalties for using volunteers in its operation, raising concerns that other wineries may face similar action.

According to California labor laws, to volunteer legally, an individual must offer his or her services to a public agency or nonprofit organization. Businesses may not legally utilize volunteers. Government and nonprofits are exempt from the law.

In the Livermore Valley, volunteers work in winery tasting rooms and barrel rooms to support the local wineries and, in some cases, to learn the art of wine making.

XNN

[Anti Federalist]

These laws are meant to prevent companies from colluding together and getting unpaid labor. Try again Paulites.

And in this case, that is obviously not what is happening, so how do you justify, in your tiny mind, this winery being fined $115,000 and put out of business?

[otherone]

These laws are meant to prevent companies from colluding together and getting unpaid labor. Try again Paulites.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IHzVoaTMuLw/TnvyBsPlPhI/AAAAAAAAAB8/7el7rT0OvrQ/s1600/Troll-wins.jpg

[Wooden Indian]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IHzVoaTMuLw/TnvyBsPlPhI/AAAAAAAAAB8/7el7rT0OvrQ/s1600/Troll-wins.jpg

Exactly. How and why that goofball is still invited on this forum is pretty amazing. I would have fired him from an e-cannon a longtime ago.

[PRB]

These laws are meant to prevent companies from colluding together and getting unpaid labor. Try again Paulites.

there is no right in the Constitution that protects you from being fucked by employers, NONE. You have no right to be employed or paid a living wage, you take it or leave, nobody can force you to take any job, at any pay.

[PRB]

There is no law needed. I am not working for nothing , but if anyone wants to , it is fine.

yeah, so if a child is too ignorant to know his rights and was convinced he doesn't need bathroom or lunch breaks, that's his problem.

[Brian4Liberty]

A "feel good" news story from last year must have put the small vinyard on some Revenuer's radar.

My Town: Castro Valley: Westover Winery teaches all about its trade (http://www.contracostatimes.com/my-town/ci_24363244/castro-valley-westover-winery-teaches-all-about-its)


You know something had to put them on the radar of the petty tyrants.


Instruction runs the gamut from vineyard planting and pruning through processing, fermentation, cellaring, filtering, barreling and bottling. Quality-control, problem-solving, legal issues, labeling, wine sales and tasting room operations are also covered. Students come to the winery periodically, spend a portion of the day receiving instruction and studying concepts, then practice hands-on techniques.

Seems like they all have had a lesson about legal issues.

[RJB]

WTF!! You can't be that ignorant, you just can't.
Uh, yes he can.

This is actually one of his more intelligent posts.

[pcosmar]

Exactly. How and why that goofball is still invited on this forum is pretty amazing.

Comic Relief. (the only reason I can conceive )

[HOLLYWOOD]

Exactly. How and why that goofball is still invited on this forum is pretty amazing. I would have fired him from an e-cannon a longtime ago.They can look in the mirror all day long and will never ever ever understand, they are the "Useful Idiots for the Marxists"

A little on another mess by government... The regulations and paperwork inflicted on vineyards/grape growers by California .gov clowns are absolutely horrendous today. The small mom and pop vineyards are being put out of business, AKA "sell to the huge crony corporate & Wall Street hedges, because they donate piles of cash to buy politicians to write laws to favor their donors. The little guy has to sell or cut a deal with the Devils(Big Gov & Big Wealth) in the racketeering schemes that have been legalized. You basically need a company full of lawyers-bean counters/MBAs-engineers to comply with bureaucracy & mandates from a slew of California/FED government agencies laws on wine growing today. It's worse than ever, but this slow methodical control has been going on for decades. I know... because I hear it from my relative that runs one and from an ex co-worker who's spouse is a master wine maker for a known very good wine line distributed nationally.

Waiting for the Wine Tasting houses to be SWATTED for not having the appropriate certificates and/or licenses displayed soon... :rolleyes:

[oyarde]

yeah, so if a child is too ignorant to know his rights and was convinced he doesn't need bathroom or lunch breaks, that's his problem.

I did not work for nothing as a child , nor do I take a lunch break now , most days, so yeah , I have no problem with it .

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

there is no right in the Constitution that protects you from being fucked by employers, NONE. You have no right to be employed or paid a living wage, you take it or leave, nobody can force you to take any job, at any pay.

Irrelevant hyperbole. Nice try pretending to be liberty minded, you lib troll.


yeah, so if a child is too ignorant to know his rights and was convinced he doesn't need bathroom or lunch breaks, that's his problem.

Has nothing to do with the thread. Just like your other lib post. Nice try, lib.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

These laws are meant to prevent companies from colluding together and getting unpaid labor. Try again Paulites.

Except it was not unpaid labor. They got something out of it.

I'm also giving you another neg rep for laughs. I want to see you become the first lib troll with the full complement of pink bars. LOL.

[PRB]

Irrelevant hyperbole. Nice try pretending to be liberty minded, you lib troll.


Do you disagree?



Has nothing to do with the thread. Just like your other lib post. Nice try, lib.

Except it does, because the government has no business telling people to take lunch breaks and bathroom breaks, and somebody actually agreed with me.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Do you disagree?



Except it does, because the government has no business telling people to take lunch breaks and bathroom breaks, and somebody actually agreed with me.


The story is about people who exchanged their time for experience. Do you disagree with that?

[56ktarget]

And in this case, that is obviously not what is happening, so how do you justify, in your tiny mind, this winery being fined $115,000 and put out of business?
Every law has unintended consequences. That doesn't mean the net result of it is negative. It is sad that as the memories of the Gilded Age fade, labor protection acts are being stripped away.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Every law has unintended consequences.


The irony is thick.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

It is sad that as the memories of the Gilded Age fade, labor protection acts are being stripped away.

Yeah, I also heard about that pizza joint kid working past 9:30 on a school night.

[56ktarget]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/business/more-workers-are-claiming-wage-theft.html

Oops, didn't fit in with the Paulite talking point.

[PRB]

The story is about people who exchanged their time for experience. Do you disagree with that?

it's also about the government interfering with 2 privately willing parties.

[PRB]

Every law has unintended consequences. That doesn't mean the net result of it is negative. It is sad that as the memories of the Gilded Age fade, labor protection acts are being stripped away.

why is labor protection acts going away a bad thing? do you not know the first rule of liberty is that the less government the better?

[PRB]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/business/more-workers-are-claiming-wage-theft.html

Oops, didn't fit in with the Paulite talking point.

workers claiming, doesn't mean it's true.

[Brian4Liberty]

Every law has unintended consequences. That doesn't mean the net result of it is negative. It is sad that as the memories of the Gilded Age fade, labor protection acts are being stripped away.

It's sad that you progs can't see that your political and union heros have abandoned you. It's crony corporatism, and your heros are the pigs in the big house...all animals are equal, but your pigs are more equal than the proletariat.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/business/more-workers-are-claiming-wage-theft.html

Oops, didn't fit in with the Paulite talking point.


What labor protection act was stripped away?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

why is labor protection acts going away a bad thing? do you not know the first rule of liberty is that the less government the better?


Code in this country keeps increasing. Employers screwing their workers is on the rise, at least according the article. Seems to me more government is not going to solve this one.

[PRB]

Code in this country keeps increasing. Employers screwing their workers is on the rise, at least according the article. Seems to me more government is not going to solve this one.

I have no problem with employers screwing workers, and i agree more government won't solve it.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I have no problem with employers screwing workers,...

This does not make sense unless, of course, you're a liberal troll posing as a doofus libertarian. Your trolling reminds me of the dope in the article who said that businesses cutting corners is libertarianism.

[Spikender]

Feel Good Story of the day right here.

Glad to see our laws hurting big evil businesses like some random family winery that barely made ends meet.

Huge conglomerates like GE, Comcast, and others of course are trustworthy and these laws aren't meant to have an effect on them at all because they are 100% clean. The Government should know, they're bedmates with these huge conglomerates so they've got the inside scoop.

[staerker]

Illegal to work without a State approved wage. Illegal to benefit society without receiving FRN wipes from your benevolent lords.

Lol, statists.

[otherone]

Illegal to work without a State approved wage. Illegal to benefit society without receiving FRN wipes from your benevolent lords.

Lol, statists.

I just want to be included in your wine-making thingie, fellas!
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100402161911/lotr/images/f/f5/Eye_of_sauron.jpg

[osan]

You mean the Constitution failed to protect people again? You don't say! :eek: :(

Maybe we should sue the Constitution. Yeah... that's the ticket.

Now where'd I put that lawyer...

[osan]

These laws are meant to prevent companies from colluding together and getting unpaid labor. Try again Paulites.

Thus far, I have been able to detect no shred of value in anything you have posted here at RPF. Why do you bother? You might want to try getting a job and one day move out of mom's basement because you apparently have entirely too much time on your hands and too little knowledge of... well, anything.

I'm beginning to wonder if the old stories about the deleterious effects of masturbation are, in fact, true.

[osan]

http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/westover-winery-fined-for-volunteers/

Well, firstly, shame on the owners for not having been aware of this law. I am serious. This is CALIFORNIA, for pity's sake, where NOTHING makes sense. It is run by the biggest raft of nitwits in the nation and populated by many millions of same "intellect". No nominally intelligent adult could fail to see what California is at its heart. Given this, they should have made the effort to uncover all such potentially devastating law and I am willing to bet they did no such thing.

For future reference, I am wondering whether they could have avoided this if they had charged each volunteer $1 every time they showed up for work. Of course, being California, there is probably some law banning running a school or training facility without a license, so the bottom line there may be that no self-respecting human adult does business in a shit-hole like the Golden State. As to that moniker, I am ever more convinced it should be changed to "The Golden Shower State".

California occupies a unique position in the US, for not only are its politics evil, they are so singularly and spectacularly stupid as to defy credulity well past the breaking point. To bear witness to California in action is the most mind-numbing experience imaginable.

[Suzanimal]

Among the reasons cited by the California Department of Industrial Relations, was the fact that no income taxes were being collected on the volunteer labor.


Ca cannot have any labor where they do not collect tax.

I have a few questions. What about unpaid interns? Don't the movie studios have those?:confused: And if they do, does the studio have to pay some kind of tax on the
nonexistent wages of an intern? Sorry, I don't know anything about labor laws in Ca.


I would love to volunteer at a winery for experience.:)

[Anti Federalist]

Every law has unintended consequences. That doesn't mean the net result of it is negative. It is sad that as the memories of the Gilded Age fade, labor protection acts are being stripped away.

That they do, which is why, ultimately, laws and government should be as minimalist as possible.

Or do the destruction of real people's lives and industry not count for anything, just so long as the law and its majestic majesty are upheld?

[luctor-et-emergo]

While I think the state of California is full of shit and this is complete and utter crap I think there's an easy way out of this. If for-profit-corporations can't have volunteers and these people want to gain experience, let them pay a couple bucks for a course. Problem solved.

Although.... There's probably laws against that, certificates you need, permissions and bowing to the king. No way I'd ever live there, even though the climate and scenery are most amazing.

[ChristianAnarchist]

And in this case, that is obviously not what is happening, so how do you justify, in your tiny mind, this winery being fined $115,000 and put out of business?

They hate us for our freedoms !!!

[ClydeCoulter]

Wasn't government complicit in the first place preventing strikes when workers tried to force negotiations (I'm thinking railroad workers, etc)? Maybe I'm not quite remembering things correctly here. But, perhaps creating problems to be solved by government is no new thing.

There is no justification for preventing an exchange of experience for labor. There is only enmity and jealously, and enforcement of the confiscation of wealth. This case is such an obvious move against freedom of association.

[Dr.3D]

While I think the state of California is full of shit and this is complete and utter crap I think there's an easy way out of this. If for-profit-corporations can't have volunteers and these people want to gain experience, let them pay a couple bucks for a course. Problem solved.

Although.... There's probably laws against that, certificates you need, permissions and bowing to the king. No way I'd ever live there, even though the climate and scenery are most amazing.
Minimum wage laws would probably prohibit that from being done.

[PRB]

This does not make sense unless, of course, you're a liberal troll posing as a doofus libertarian. Your trolling reminds me of the dope in the article who said that businesses cutting corners is libertarianism.

No, it makes perfect sense if you're somebody who doesn't want government or doesn't believe employees have a right to be protected from being screwed. As I said, there's nothing in the Constitution that protects employees. Businesses cutting corners is not libertarianism, but libertarianism and capitalism gives businesses the maximum freedom to cut corners, reduce costs, and screw employees, none of which are crimes.

[staerker]

Every law has unintended consequences. That doesn't mean the net result of it is negative. It is sad that as the memories of the Gilded Age fade, labor protection acts are being stripped away.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi0Q1cvq2WA

[Brian4Liberty]

More to this story to come...

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

...libertarianism and capitalism gives businesses the maximum freedom to...screw employees...


The article cites rising worker abuse through temp agencies, contract work, franchises, etc. This freedom to abuse increases despite government being larger than ever. There's no libertarianism in sight.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

dupe

[PRB]

The article cites rising worker abuse through temp agencies, contract work, franchises, etc. This freedom to abuse increases despite government being larger than ever. There's no libertarianism in sight.

I disagree that this freedom has increased with government increasing.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I disagree that this freedom has increased with government increasing.


Government has not increased? More workers are not being abused?

[PRB]

Government has not increased? More workers are not being abused?

Government has increased, but I don't believe more workers are being abused (in proportion to population).

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

How does CA graduate anyone from college which requires an internship/observation esp. medical field majors? Oh, I bet they have some 'exemption'... CA, IL, and NY are complete & utter cesspools. Give them some more time and I'm sure they'll be right there with their North Korean and petty dictator brethren in Africa. Ain't no thang better than being a slave (all these states have ridiculous population numbers...what buffoons).

[osan]

There is no justification for preventing an exchange of experience for labor. There is only enmity and jealously, and enforcement of the confiscation of wealth. This case is such an obvious move against freedom of association.

If Theye cannot control it, directly or otherwise, they hate it. If Theye hate it, they work tirelessly to gain control. If Theye cannot, they destroy it, and that they can always do because they have guns, the will to use them, and they have impunity in their back pockets because we give it to them.

All we ever do is fight the House by House rules and that is why we will never win.

[Brian4Liberty]

A "feel good" news story from last year must have put the small vineyard on some Revenuer's radar.

I have it on good authority that this became an issue after one of the volunteers was injured on-site. All of her medical expenses were paid for by the winery, but apparently she choose to pursue every avenue to get more money from the accident. That included her going to the State and inquiring about all of the possibilities for injury or disability payments.

[GunnyFreedom]

I have it on good authority that this became an issue after one of the volunteers was injured on-site. All of her medical expenses were paid for by the winery, but apparently she choose to pursue every avenue to get more money from the accident. That included her going to the State and inquiring about all of the possibilities for injury or disability payments.

smdh

[Anti Federalist]

I have it on good authority that this became an issue after one of the volunteers was injured on-site. All of her medical expenses were paid for by the winery, but apparently she choose to pursue every avenue to get more money from the accident. That included her going to the State and inquiring about all of the possibilities for injury or disability payments.

Never fucking fails...should have figured that.

Nice work, unknown asshole broad, nice work.

[kpitcher]

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1244/7355/original.jpg
I'm waiting for the comic issue where Lex Luther sues the Daily Planet for being saved by Superman. His pro bono volunteer work stopped the massive globe on top of the Daily Planet's building from falling off and causing catastrophic property damage and lost lives. As a for-profit corporation the Daily Planet did not pay for this help and was shut down immediately, giving rise to the Daily Lex propganda newspaper.

[jbauer]

Exactly. How and why that goofball is still invited on this forum is pretty amazing. I would have fired him from an e-cannon a longtime ago.

mehh, its pretty funny to see his/her posts. I hope they keep him/her.

[jonhowe]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/v/t1.0-9/524283_10100800172449800_775264061_n.jpg?oh=bd1e6d 163f8a396b424c1145fc17a1c7&oe=54C31571&__gda__=1421294371_d9c2ac5c83aecda59d1f73716b7096e b

These people are NOT volunteers helping our brewery build riddling racks. Seriously.

[Brian4Liberty]

I spoke to several local winemakers about this case. Their reactions were mixed. Most were clear that they didn't want to be quoted "on the record". That would speak to the fear of the state that exists. Once you get on their radar for anything, you can be targeted for retribution.

One winemaker expressed a great deal of anger with the winemaker who had to shutdown. The complaint? That he had brought the heat down on all of them.

[Root]

The horror. Must have moar wine.

[ClydeCoulter]

The horror. Must have moar wine.

But, is it "sanctioned" wine?

I hate this, because so much of my education came from people being willing to give me a chance to learn, from them. Most of the times I got paid something, but sometimes not. But, the experience of working with people who knew, only rocketed me from "not knowing" to "knowing" and then "growing" even more beyond what they showed me. I am so thankful for those that have added to my knowledge and wisdom. It is worth much more, now, to me than the money that I made and paid (to government and to feed my stomach and passions) over the years.

[Keith and stuff]

People should just show up and work still. What a great story having police arrest volunteer workers....

The deserve a living wage of $15 an hour! This family was exploiting the poor to make drugs and should be jailed for life!

[osan]

I spoke to several local winemakers about this case. Their reactions were mixed. Most were clear that they didn't want to be quoted "on the record". That would speak to the fear of the state that exists. Once you get on their radar for anything, you can be targeted for retribution.

Land of the free, FTW...


One winemaker expressed a great deal of anger with the winemaker who had to shutdown. The complaint? That he had brought the heat down on all of them.

...home of the brave.

Sheesh.

[jmdrake]

.


teacher and apprentice not welcome here.

Yep. Had the winery charged the volunteers tuition it would have been perfectly okay. Of course that would have meant an exchange of money which would have meant an opportunity to collect taxes. And maybe some people would have taken out student loans to learn the winery business. There's an opportunity for banksters to charge interest.

[jmdrake]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/business/more-workers-are-claiming-wage-theft.html

Oops, didn't fit in with the Paulite talking point.

Actually in didn't fit in this thread dufus. Employers not paying promised wages is a violation of NAP and from a minarchist viewpoint enforcing NAP is a legit function of government. The government forcing people to pay a certain wage or any wage is the government violating people's rights to contract for themselves.

[jmdrake]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/v/t1.0-9/524283_10100800172449800_775264061_n.jpg?oh=bd1e6d 163f8a396b424c1145fc17a1c7&oe=54C31571&__gda__=1421294371_d9c2ac5c83aecda59d1f73716b7096e b

These people are NOT volunteers helping our brewery build riddling racks. Seriously.

Give them some free beer.

[Czolgosz]

WTF!! You can't be that ignorant, you just can't.



Certainly he's not, his goal is achieved in each thread. Like shooting fish in a barrel.