US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

[charrob]

American airstrikes against ISIS targets are underway in Syria, according to a Pentagon official.

"I can confirm that U.S. military and partner nation forces are undertaking military action against ISIL [ISIS] terrorists in Syria using a mix of fighter, bomber and Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles," Pentagon Press Secretary Rear Admiral John Kirby said. "Given that these operations are ongoing, we are not in a position to provide additional details at this time. The decision to conduct theses strikes was made earlier today by the U.S. Central Command commander under authorization granted him by the commander in chief. We will provide more details later as operationally appropriate."

In a national address on Sept. 10, President Obama said the first part of his strategy to counter ISIS was to “conduct a systematic campaign of airstrikes against these terrorists.”

“Moreover, I have made it clear that we will hunt down terrorists who threaten our country, wherever they are. That means I will not hesitate to take action against ISIL [ISIS] in Syria as well as Iraq,” Obama said. “This is a core principle of my presidency: If you threaten America, you will find no safe haven.”

A self-described ISIS militant is believed to have killed two Americans on camera, journalists James Foley and Steven Sotloff, as well a British aid worker. The group is suspected of holding at least two more Americans and has publicly threatened a second Briton.

As of earlier today the U.S. had launched nearly 200 strikes against ISIS in Iraq.

Sunday U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Samantha Power, told ABC News’ “This Week” that America would not conduct airstrikes in Syria alone. But already Secretary of State John Kerry claimed that some 40 countries, including a number of Arab nations, have offered various levels of support to the anti-ISIS effort. France announced last week it would join in airstrikes in the battle against ISIS.

ISIS, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, is the name taken in 2013 by what was originally an al Qaeda affiliate called al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI). A public fallout between ISIS, which later called itself the Islamic State (IS), and al Qaeda “core” in Pakistan over who should lead the fighting in Syria – ISIS or the al Qaeda affiliate al-Nusra Front -- led to the group being disavowed by al Qaeda’s leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-airstrikes-syria/story?id=25686031

[ClydeCoulter]

Damnit!

[FindLiberty]

"Peace bombs spreading out so far and wide,
keep Manhattan and flatten their countryside..."

[charrob]

Damnit!


I agree. Without Assad's approval, this goes against international law.

[specsaregood]

The decision to conduct theses strikes was made earlier today by the U.S. Central Command commander under authorization granted him by the commander in chief who in turn got his authorization by his puppetmasters.

updated.

[phill4paul]

"Fuck it. I quit."

Have awhile back. If I can absolutely avoid it I will not give any part of my wages to Leviathan. Still, it is becoming apparent that this is not enough.

[69360]

I agree. Without Assad's approval, this goes against international law.

Assad approved. The Syrian foreign minister was on record a few days ago saying the Syrians welcome airstrikes.

I'm sure there are back channels that co ordinate the strikes so the Syrians don't use air defenses against our planes.

So WW3 is apparently averted for now.

[charrob]

Assad approved. The Syrian foreign minister was on record a few days ago saying the Syrians welcome airstrikes.

I'm sure there are back channels that co ordinate the strikes so the Syrians don't use air defenses against our planes.

So WW3 is apparently averted for now.

Thanks, that's a relief as I had not seen that. And as you mentioned (re: ww3), the biggest worry would not just be from Assad and Iran, but also Putin.

[specsaregood]

So WW3 is apparently averted for now.

Until one gets shot down by somebody and Assad's people get the blame regardless.

[Root]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-26tAcEwjJZw/UgEoYjxB_-I/AAAAAAAAJW4/RShHlFmREu8/s1600/NobelpeacedroneObama.jpg

[alucard13mm]

Wouldn't it be easier to call russia out to do it, since russia and assad are allies. They can coordinate easier. Plus syria is near russia and Russia has a port there.

[69360]

Wouldn't it be easier to call russia out to do it, since russia and assad are allies. They can coordinate easier. Plus syria is near russia and Russia has a port there.

What incentive is there for Russia to do it? They don't play world police.

[charrob]

69360, i'm not finding Assad's approval. Here's from Bloomberg dated today:




The U.S. conducted its first airstrikes in Syria, a major expansion of President Barack Obama’s effort to “degrade and ultimately destroy” the terrorist Islamic State.

“U.S. military and partner nation forces are undertaking military action against ISIL terrorists in Syria using a mix of fighter, bomber and Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles,” Rear Admiral John Kirby, the Pentagon press secretary, said tonight in an e-mailed statement.

The U.S. is seeking to reverse the advances of Islamic State, a Sunni extremist group that has seized a swath of territory across Iraq and Syria. The U.S. has conducted more than 190 airstrikes against Islamic State targets, all of them in Iraq until now. ISIL is an acronym for the group’s former name.

Obama said in a televised speech on Sept. 10 that he would “not hesitate to take action” against the group “in Syria as well as Iraq.”

“The decision to conduct theses strikes was made earlier today by the U.S. Central Command commander under authorization granted him by the commander in chief,” Kirby said tonight in his statement.

While Iraq’s government has invited the U.S. and other nations to help it fight Islamic State, no such request has come from Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, whose ouster the U.S. seeks.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry told a U.S. Senate hearing on Sept. 17 that in helping to defend Iraq, “you have a right of hot pursuit, you have a right to be able to attack those people who are attacking you as a matter of self-defense.”

Russia’s Opposition

Russian Ambassador to the United Nations Vitaly Churkin, whose country backs Assad, told the UN Security Council on Sept. 19 that any attacks inside Syria without Assad’s approval would be “considered illegal” under international law.

Some U.S. allies have also shown reluctance to extend the strikes beyond Iraq.

While France has joined the U.S. in airstrikes in Iraq, President Francois Hollande ruled out attacking in Syria.

“We’re very concerned with the aspects of international law,” Hollande said last week at a press conference. “We’ve been called in by the Iraqis; we’re not called on in Syria.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-22/u-s-conducts-first-airstrikes-in-syria-on-islamic-state.html

[Natural Citizen]

What incentive is there for Russia to do it? They don't play world police.


Russia pledges support to ISIS opponents, no plans to join US-led coalition (http://rt.com/politics/189036-russia-isis-fight-ministry/)




Russia will not “buy tickets” to the international coalition that is being created by the US to fight the Islamic State, but will continue its aid to Iraq, Syria and other nations that are fighting terrorists on the spot.

“The anti-ISIL coalition is not a club party – we do not expect any invitations and we are not going to buy entry tickets,” said Ilya Rogachev, the head of the Foreign Ministry’s Department for New Challenges and Threats. At the same time Russia will continue to support all states that fight against the Islamic State, the official told the Interfax news agency on Friday.

Kerry’s words were a reaction to the position expressed by Russian Foreign Ministry’s spokesman, Aleksander Lukashevich, who had earlier warned the US and its allies against launching an attack against IS on Syrian territory, saying that such actions would amount to an act of aggression and a violation of international law.

Earlier this week, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov urged all nations not to show political ambitions while fighting terrorism.

“Syria and Iran are our natural allies in the fight against IS, and their participation in today’s meeting could have significantly enriched our work. Moral standards on which the anti-terrorism battle is based shouldn’t become vague,” the top Russian diplomat said.

[69360]

69360, i'm not finding Assad's approval. Here's from Bloomberg dated today:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/syrias-deputy-foreign-minister-were-fighting-same-enemy-n201136

[brushfire]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_sociopol/waronterror81_02.jpg

[Crashland]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_sociopol/waronterror81_02.jpg

And any hope of this pic being considered seriously by anybody outside the Ron Paul camp is instantly dashed by the "WAKE UP PEOPLE" at the end

[charrob]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/syrias-deputy-foreign-minister-were-fighting-same-enemy-n201136

I had seen where Assad originally wanted to work with the U.S. but that the U.S. flat out said 'no'. That's when Assad stated that the airstrikes would be unwelcome in his country without his approval and coordination. From the nbcnews article:


But he said cited the need for logistical coordination with the U.S. before any airstrikes so “there should be no mistakes,” and said “it is a must” for Obama to call Assad.

We can only hope the U.S. government has enough common sense and common decency to coordinate this with Assad and that the news agencies are just not aware of this, or have not reported on this coordination.

[69360]

I had seen where Assad originally wanted to work with the U.S. but that the U.S. flat out said 'no'. That's when Assad stated that the airstrikes would be unwelcome in his country without his approval and coordination. From the nbcnews article:



We can only hope the U.S. government has enough common sense and common decency to coordinate this with Assad and that the news agencies are just not aware of this, or have not reported on this coordination.


I think it's rather obvious that it is coordinated. If it wasn't, before any US planes enter Syrian airspace, they would need to take out all the Syrian air defenses with cruise missiles. There is no sign of that happening and it obviously wouldn't happen without Putin's approval or you have WW3.

[Brian4Liberty]

Just another unconstitutional action from the imperial President. Congress is impotent, the rule of law is a joke.

[Natural Citizen]

I think it's rather obvious that it is coordinated. If it wasn't, before any US planes enter Syrian airspace, they would need to take out all the Syrian air defenses with cruise missiles. There is no sign of that happening and it obviously wouldn't happen without Putin's approval or you have WW3.

How do we know that they aren't taking them out? They're pretty hush at the moment.

“I think when American lives are at stake, when we’re talking about defending our own interests, we’re not looking for the approval of the Syrian regime.” - US State Department’s spokeswoman Jen Psaki

I was just referencing this very thing that you bring up here in the Obama - “Our intelligence community has not yet detected specific ISIL plots against America" thread... http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?460229-Obama-“Our-intelligence-community-has-not-yet-detected-specific-ISIL-plots-against-America-quot&p=5655308&viewfull=1#post5655308

[69360]

How do we know that they aren't taking them out? They're pretty hush at the moment.

“I think when American lives are at stake, when we’re talking about defending our own interests, we’re not looking for the approval of the Syrian regime.” - US State Department’s spokeswoman Jen Psaki

I was just referencing this very thing that you bring up here in the Obama - “Our intelligence community has not yet detected specific ISIL plots against America" thread... http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?460229-Obama-“Our-intelligence-community-has-not-yet-detected-specific-ISIL-plots-against-America-quot&p=5655308&viewfull=1#post5655308

Putin would respond if the US knocked out Syrian air defenses. It would be bad, very bad.

This was obviously worked out behind the scenes in advance.

[DFF]

The decision to conduct theses strikes was made earlier today by the U.S. Central Command commander under authorization granted him by the commander in chief who in turn got his authorization by his puppetmasters Benjamim Netanyahu, and the Jewish neoconservatives.

http://www.u-r-next.com/Die4Israel.gif

Updated again.

[Natural Citizen]

Putin would respond if the US knocked out Syrian air defenses. It would be bad, very bad.

You think? I'm on the fence. I don't know.

Russia is holding a lot of cards at the moment in other areas. Crazy stuff...

And you know what else. We've been sending up a lot of secret satellite infrastructure as of late. Makes me wonder just how easy it would be. You know? They don't really have to knock them out, per se. Just put them to sleep for a hot second. Then someone has to prove it.

[Brian4Liberty]

Updated again.

The entire establishment backs this, the MIC benefits more than most. Follow the money. Neoconservatives are enabling cheerleaders. And just to be clear, not all neoconservatives are Jewish, and most Jewish people aren't neoconservatives.

3123

[phill4paul]

So, how does this work? Under new regulation this is good until..what...60 days? Or is it 90 days until this will be brought up and approved before CONgress?

[Brian4Liberty]

Related:


Even a Top Democrat Thinks Obama's Legal Case for War Makes No Sense

Obama is trying to argue the group is the “true inheritor of bin Laden” in order to legally justify the war. Just don't tell al Qaeda, which booted ISIS in February.

The White House and senior members of the Obama administration have been trying to convince Congress all week that, legally speaking, there’s no difference between ISIS and al Qaeda. But at the same time—and, often, in the very same classified briefings—members of the U.S. intelligence community are telling lawmakers that the two Islamic radical groups aren’t in cahoots at all. In fact, they’re competitors for supremacy in the global jihadist movement.

The Senate and the House this week voted to give President Obama the authority to allow the military to begin training members of the Syrian opposition. It was a victory for a president who has chosen not to ask Congress pass a law to authorize this new war on ISIS, claiming instead that Congress supplied that authority in 2001 when it declared war on the parties responsible for 9/11.

In the last week, administration lawyers, senior officials and intelligence analysts have made the case that the 9/11 law applies to ISIS in classified and open hearings. Many lawmakers are naturally skeptical, since the two groups formally parted ways last winter. The briefings didn't exactly dispel this skepticism. In some of them, intelligence analysts conceded that both al Qaeda and ISIS operate under separate command and control structures and are indeed distinct organizations at this point.
...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/19/even-a-top-democrat-thinks-obama-s-legal-case-for-war-makes-no-sense.html

[fr33]

phew! I was beginning to feel unsafe! Now I can get back to my reality shows and stop worrying about people overseas. Afterall they aren't people like we are people.

[69360]

You think? I'm on the fence. I don't know.

Russia is holding a lot of cards at the moment in other areas. Crazy stuff...

And you know what else. We've been sending up a lot of secret satellite infrastructure as of late. Makes me wonder just how easy it would be. You know? They don't really have to knock them out, per se. Just put them to sleep for a hot second. Then someone has to prove it.

I absolutely think Putin would respond to an attack on Assad.

This was coordinated with Assad and Putin approved because he doesn't do the world police thing. He's letting the US get tied up in yet another war.

[devil21]

And so it begins, on Obama's orders. What ever happened to Congressional approval???????

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/09/22/us-launches-first-wave-bombing-strikes-over-syria/


The United States, joined by several Arab allies, launched an intense campaign of airstrikes, bombings and cruise-missile attacks against Islamic State targets in Syria Monday night – marking the first U.S. military intervention in Syria since the start of that country’s civil war.

Sources say the military operation includes fighter jets, B-1 bombers and Predator drones, as well as Tomahawk missiles launched from the Red Sea and Persian Gulf.

Officials say the coalition is targeting about 20 sites, including command-and-control centers, training camps and weapons depots.

U.S. officials told Fox News that several Arab countries – including Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates – were participating.

The operation was expected to last several hours, with the first explosions from Tomahawk missiles heard near Raqqa, the Islamic State stronghold in northern Syria

U.S. aircraft include B-1 bombers, F-16s, F-18s and Predator drones, with F-18s flying missions off the USS George H.W. Bush in the Persian Gulf. Tomahawk missiles were fired from the destroyer USS Arleigh Burke in the Red Sea.

The military strikes come less than two weeks after President Obama, on Sept. 10, authorized U.S. airstrikes inside Syria as part of a broad campaign to root out the Islamic State militant group, also known as ISIS or ISIL.

In a nod to his plans to go into Syria, Obama said then, “I have made it clear that we will hunt down terrorists who threaten our country, wherever they are. That means I will not hesitate to take action against ISIL in Syria, as well as Iraq.”

Until now, U.S. airstrikes have been limited to specific missions in northern Iraq. Lawmakers and military advisers, though, had stressed for weeks that any campaign against the Islamic State would have to include action in Syria, where the militant network is based.

Because the United States had stayed out of the Syria conflict for so long, the Obama administration had spent the last several weeks scrambling to gather intelligence about possible targets in Syria, launching surveillance missions over the country last month.

Pentagon Press Secretary Rear Adm. John Kirby released a statement Monday night saying, "I can confirm that U.S. military and partner nation forces are undertaking military action against ISIL terrorists in Syria using a mix of fighter, bomber and Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles.

"Given that these operations are ongoing, we are not in a position to provide additional details at this time. The decision to conduct theses strikes was made earlier today by the U.S. Central Command commander under authorization granted him by the commander in chief. "

I'm sorry Syrians. Our government no longer represents us so please don't blame us. It represents foreign bankers and globalist commies hell bent on world domination at both of our expenses.

[DFF]

The entire establishment backs this, the MIC benefits more than most. Follow the money. Neoconservatives are enabling cheerleaders. And just to be clear, not all neoconservatives are Jewish, and most Jewish people aren't neoconservatives.

There are a lot of hands in the cookie jar, I agree, but the biggest factor is the Israeli one. It's not a coincidence that all the nations we keep attacking in the Middle East are also Israels enemies.

Attacking "ISIS in Syria" is bogus...the real target is the Syrian Government itself.

[HOLLYWOOD]

What time is DWTS on? I hope Mikey Waltrip wins... oh wait NFL football is on... later.

Paul Wolfowitz & company... USUAL SUSPECTS


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUCwCgthp_E

[Natural Citizen]

I absolutely think Putin would respond to an attack on Assad.

This was coordinated with Assad and Putin approved because he doesn't do the world police thing. He's letting the US get tied up in yet another war.

Could be, wabbit. I don't know. Screw it.

You know, if that is the case then what they're doing is justifying terrorism for something. I mean if you really think about it.

[orenbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CWzT8rTpOU

[69360]

And so it begins, on Obama's orders. What ever happened to Congressional approval???????

1973 war powers act and 2001 post 9/11 AUMF happened.

War powers act lets Obama bomb for 60 days without congressional approval as long as he reports to congress within 48 hours.

The AUMF lets him pursue AQ forever. Apparently the Obama administration is using some twisted logic that IS is the "descendent" of AQ even though AQ kicked out IS.

[devil21]

1973 war powers act and 2001 post 9/11 AUMF happened.

War powers act lets Obama bomb for 60 days without congressional approval as long as he reports to congress within 48 hours.

The AUMF lets him pursue AQ forever. Apparently the Obama administration is using some twisted logic that IS is the "descendent" of AQ even though AQ kicked out IS.

So in other words, more smoke and mirrors and lies. It's absurd that anyone would accept the 2001 AUMF as having anything at all to do with Syria. I'm sure Obama will meet his 48 hour requirement just like he did for Libya :rolleyes:

Our government has been hijacked. And of course the cowards started it during the MNF distraction....Bears vs Jets. Naaa no symbolism there....

[LibertyEagle]

1973 war powers act and 2001 post 9/11 AUMF happened.

War powers act lets Obama bomb for 60 days without congressional approval as long as he reports to congress within 48 hours.

The AUMF lets him pursue AQ forever. Apparently the Obama administration is using some twisted logic that IS is the "descendent" of AQ even though AQ kicked out IS.

But, the War Powers Act requires one of three things has to happen.


The War Powers Resolution of 1973 (50 U.S.C. 1541–1548)[1] is a federal law intended to check the president's power to commit the United States to an armed conflict without the consent of Congress. The resolution was adopted in the form of a United States Congress joint resolution; this provides that the President can send U.S. armed forces into action abroad only by declaration of war by Congress, "statutory authorization," or in case of "a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution

[orenbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiY7UIUVsGs

[orenbus]

CNN was reporting that the Arab countries that are taking part in the air strikes are; Saudi Arabia, UAE, Jordan, Quatar, Bahrain.

[pcosmar]

I'm guessing the civilians in the area are shit out of luck.

I would also expect that Syria Military forces are also targets (though not "officially")

[devil21]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw


eta: oops didn't realize there was already a thread on this in another subforum. thx for thread merge.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?460252-US-Airstrikes-Under-Way-in-Syria

[69360]

But, the War Powers Act requires one of three things has to happen.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution

Obama administration is using the embassies to cover that. They have to protect them from attack, you know. Couldn't just close them and send everyone home.

[pcosmar]

Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Jordan

Expect to see internal reprisals in these countries soon.

[heavenlyboy34]

Just another unconstitutional action from the imperial President. Congress is impotent, the rule of law is a joke.

Yup. Mr Obama's (and the banksters') Murder Spree continues. :( As I understand, CONgress isn't even in session ATM. Everything the regime is doing is ridiculously illegal, technically. Sadly, criminals do not follow the law. Another CONstitution fail.

Another interesting thing-destroying syria will destroy the world's oldest Christian communities. (Syria is located where Antioch once was-the place where the word "Christian" was coined) :( And the supposedly "Christian Conservatives" are too busy war-mongering to notice. :mad:

[Brian4Liberty]

1973 war powers act and 2001 post 9/11 AUMF happened.

War powers act lets Obama bomb for 60 days without congressional approval as long as he reports to congress within 48 hours.

The AUMF lets him pursue AQ forever. Apparently the Obama administration is using some twisted logic that IS is the "descendent" of AQ even though AQ kicked out IS.

The War Powers Act does not supersede the Constitution. And this is not an emergency, so The War Powers Act does not even apply. The 2001 AUMF does not apply either.

[fr33]

As long as the IRS and Federal Reserve as we know them exists, none of your arguments over AUMF, constitutionality, Marque and Reprisal matters. All of us US citizens have been registered as property from birth and will fund whatever massacres the government approves of.

Don't join the military. That's easier to do than not paying taxes.

[devil21]

Anyone that voted for Obama or any candidate other than Ron Paul now -officially- has blood on their hands. Can't blame this one on Bush. This is 100% on Obama's watch.

It's a sad day, having watched (and correctly predicted) this unfold for the last few months. It is entirely a fabricated justification for attacking a sovereign country that never attacked or threatened America.

[Brian4Liberty]

But, the War Powers Act requires one of three things has to happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution

It's such an emergency that they're going to take the fighters to Saudi Arabia, train them for a year and then send them back...

[newbitech]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGVNL7Kg--c

[orenbus]

Damascus says #US informed Syria's #UN envoy before striking #IslamicState in #Syria: Associated Press

//

[Brett85]

I don't support this because President Obama never got Congressional approval for the action, and because we're bombing a sovereign country without their permission. My view has been that we should work with Assad to root out ISIS, and he was willing to work with us. He said that he would help us if we coordinated the air strikes with him. But our government still hates Assad and wants regime change in Syria. Their real goal is to get rid of Assad and not to kill members of ISIS. The end result will be another chaotic situation, and ISIS will take over Syria and set up their own government.

[mac_hine]

The Obama Administration has initiated a bomb and land-based missile attack against Syrian territory without permission from the Syrian government, without a request for assistance from the Syrian government, and without a UN Security Council resolution.
This is an act of US aggression against a foreign nation and a violation of international law.
The attacks were also made with no declaration of war or authorization from the US Congress. This is an illegal act according to US law, a violation of the US Constitution.
The 2001 Authorization for the Use of Force against perpetrators of 9/11 attacks could not be legally valid for Obama's attacks on ISIS in Syria because ISIS is not part of al-Qaeda and in fact did not exist at the time of the 2001 attacks.
Ostensibly, today's attacks on Syria are part of the US president's plan to "degrade and destroy" the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), however the "international coalition" participating in today's airstrikes in Syria -- Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Jordan -- have all to varying degrees supported ISIS and other radical groups seeking to overthrow Syrian president Bashir al-Assad. Additionally most are despotic states every bit as authoritarian and theocratic as ISIS itself.
Even France, which enthusiastically participated in the 2011 bombing attacks on Libya, has refused to participate in the US air war against Syria.
There is no legal justification for the US government to attack Syria. A request for US bombs on its own country by US-backed opposition seeking to overthrow the Syria government is not legally sufficient to legalize US actions on Syrian territory.
On the pretext of destroying ISIS, the US is cooperating with the Gulf states which have backed ISIS, and is acting against the Syrian government which has fought ISIS for three years. US mainstream scare media will not touch this critical point, but it exposes the lie of US government propaganda.
This is an illegal war. Next step boots on the ground.
http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2014/september/22/breaking-us-attacks-syria!.aspx

[devil21]

^^^^^^^^^@TC
Sure, if by 'ISIS' setting up a government, you mean western and semitic intelligence agencies overthrowing a democratically elected government and installing a puppet government and central bank. But at least that's the closest post to the truth I've seen from the TC handle in months.

[mac_hine]

America Created Al-Qaeda and the ISIS Terror Group
http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881

Much like Al Qaeda, the Islamic State (ISIS) is made-in-the-USA, an instrument of terror designed to divide and conquer the oil-rich Middle East and to counter Iran’s growing influence in the region.

The fact that the United States has a long and torrid history of backing terrorist groups will surprise only those who watch the news and ignore history.

The CIA first aligned itself with extremist Islam during the Cold War era. Back then, America saw the world in rather simple terms: on one side, the Soviet Union and Third World nationalism, which America regarded as a Soviet tool; on the other side, Western nations and militant political Islam, which America considered an ally in the struggle against the Soviet Union.

The director of the National Security Agency under Ronald Reagan, General William Odom recently remarked, “by any measure the U.S. has long used terrorism. In 1978-79 the Senate was trying to pass a law against international terrorism – in every version they produced, the lawyers said the U.S. would be in violation.”

During the 1970′s the CIA used the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt as a barrier, both to thwart Soviet expansion and prevent the spread of Marxist ideology among the Arab masses. The United States also openly supported Sarekat Islam against Sukarno in Indonesia, and supported the Jamaat-e-Islami terror group against Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto in Pakistan. Last but certainly not least, there is Al Qaeda.

Lest we forget, the CIA gave birth to Osama Bin Laden and breastfed his organization during the 1980′s. Former British Foreign Secretary, Robin Cook, told the House of Commons that Al Qaeda was unquestionably a product of Western intelligence agencies. Mr. Cook explained that Al Qaeda, which literally means an abbreviation of “the database” in Arabic, was originally the computer database of the thousands of Islamist extremists, who were trained by the CIA and funded by the Saudis, in order to defeat the Russians in Afghanistan.

America’s relationship with Al Qaeda has always been a love-hate affair. Depending on whether a particular Al Qaeda terrorist group in a given region furthers American interests or not, the U.S. State Department either funds or aggressively targets that terrorist group. Even as American foreign policy makers claim to oppose Muslim extremism, they knowingly foment it as a weapon of foreign policy.

The Islamic State is its latest weapon that, much like Al Qaeda, is certainly backfiring. ISIS recently rose to international prominence after its thugs began beheading American journalists. Now the terrorist group controls an area the size of the United Kingdom.

In order to understand why the Islamic State has grown and flourished so quickly, one has to take a look at the organization’s American-backed roots. The 2003 American invasion and occupation of Iraq created the pre-conditions for radical Sunni groups, like ISIS, to take root. America, rather unwisely, destroyed Saddam Hussein’s secular state machinery and replaced it with a predominantly Shiite administration. The U.S. occupation caused vast unemployment in Sunni areas, by rejecting socialism and closing down factories in the naive hope that the magical hand of the free market would create jobs. Under the new U.S.-backed Shiite regime, working class Sunni’s lost hundreds of thousands of jobs. Unlike the white Afrikaners in South Africa, who were allowed to keep their wealth after regime change, upper class Sunni’s were systematically dispossessed of their assets and lost their political influence. Rather than promoting religious integration and unity, American policy in Iraq exacerbated sectarian divisions and created a fertile breading ground for Sunni discontent, from which Al Qaeda in Iraq took root.

The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) used to have a different name: Al Qaeda in Iraq. After 2010 the group rebranded and refocused its efforts on Syria.

There are essentially three wars being waged in Syria: one between the government and the rebels, another between Iran and Saudi Arabia, and yet another between America and Russia. It is this third, neo-Cold War battle that made U.S. foreign policy makers decide to take the risk of arming Islamist rebels in Syria, because Syrian President, Bashar al-Assad, is a key Russian ally. Rather embarrassingly, many of these Syrian rebels have now turned out to be ISIS thugs, who are openly brandishing American-made M16 Assault rifles.

America’s Middle East policy revolves around oil and Israel. The invasion of Iraq has partially satisfied Washington’s thirst for oil, but ongoing air strikes in Syria and economic sanctions on Iran have everything to do with Israel. The goal is to deprive Israel’s neighboring enemies, Lebanon’s Hezbollah and Palestine’s Hamas, of crucial Syrian and Iranian support.

ISIS is not merely an instrument of terror used by America to topple the Syrian government; it is also used to put pressure on Iran.

The last time Iran invaded another nation was in 1738. Since independence in 1776, the U.S. has been engaged in over 53 military invasions and expeditions. Despite what the Western media’s war cries would have you believe, Iran is clearly not the threat to regional security, Washington is. An Intelligence Report published in 2012, endorsed by all sixteen U.S. intelligence agencies, confirms that Iran ended its nuclear weapons program in 2003. Truth is, any Iranian nuclear ambition, real or imagined, is as a result of American hostility towards Iran, and not the other way around.

America is using ISIS in three ways: to attack its enemies in the Middle East, to serve as a pretext for U.S. military intervention abroad, and at home to foment a manufactured domestic threat, used to justify the unprecedented expansion of invasive domestic surveillance.

By rapidly increasing both government secrecy and surveillance, Mr. Obama’s government is increasing its power to watch its citizens, while diminishing its citizens’ power to watch their government. Terrorism is an excuse to justify mass surveillance, in preparation for mass revolt.

The so-called “War on Terror” should be seen for what it really is: a pretext for maintaining a dangerously oversized U.S. military. The two most powerful groups in the U.S. foreign policy establishment are the Israel lobby, which directs U.S. Middle East policy, and the Military-Industrial-Complex, which profits from the former group’s actions. Since George W. Bush declared the “War on Terror” in October 2001, it has cost the American taxpayer approximately 6.6 trillion dollars and thousands of fallen sons and daughters; but, the wars have also raked in billions of dollars for Washington’s military elite.

In fact, more than seventy American companies and individuals have won up to $27 billion in contracts for work in postwar Iraq and Afghanistan over the last three years, according to a recent study by the Center for Public Integrity. According to the study, nearly 75 per cent of these private companies had employees or board members, who either served in, or had close ties to, the executive branch of the Republican and Democratic administrations, members of Congress, or the highest levels of the military.

In 1997, a U.S. Department of Defense report stated, “the data show a strong correlation between U.S. involvement abroad and an increase in terrorist attacks against the U.S.” Truth is, the only way America can win the “War On Terror” is if it stops giving terrorists the motivation and the resources to attack America. Terrorism is the symptom; American imperialism in the Middle East is the cancer. Put simply, the War on Terror is terrorism; only, it is conducted on a much larger scale by people with jets and missiles.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMjXbuj7BPI

I'm just waiting for the next false flag. I have a feeling all hell is going to break loose.

[pcosmar]

It's such an emergency that they're going to take the fighters to Saudi Arabia, train them for a year and then send them back...

Does anyone think that is a good idea?

Training a bunch of Mercs in Wahabi central..

Expect to see a thousand well trained Bin Ladins come out of that. :(

[acptulsa]

Does anyone think that is a good idea?

Training a bunch of Mercs in Wahabi central..

Expect to see a thousand well trained Bin Ladins come out of that. :(

And the Military Industrial Complex calls it job security...

[devil21]

So far, all video and still images I've seen so far alleged to be of the attack are very weak evidence. Should be daylight over there now.

Please post up vids and pics you find. It's important to make sure this isn't yet another media ruse.

[AngryCanadian]

So far, all video and still images I've seen so far alleged to be of the attack are very weak evidence. Should be daylight over there now.

Please post up vids and pics you find. It's important to make sure this isn't yet another media ruse.

Agreed some of the alleged videos seem to be from 2012. Yet at the time when Israel struck in Israel. Which was nigh time.

[orenbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyOSPG0OsNU

[alucard13mm]

Who wants to bet a missile will go astray and hit Assad?

[Pauls' Revere]

I agree. Without Assad's approval, this goes against international law.

I believe Washington notified the Syrian UN Envoy. Not that it changes things much. The enemy of my enemy and all that jazz.

[green73]

Israel shoots down Syrian aircraft over Golan Heights

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-shoots-down-syrian-aircraft-that-entered-its-air-space-9749903.html

[juleswin]

Thanks, that's a relief as I had not seen that. And as you mentioned (re: ww3), the biggest worry would not just be from Assad and Iran, but also Putin.

Too quick to believe 69360 without evidence. The Syria govt did not approve of anything, the US is only using this as an excuse to get their nose into the conflict where they clearly side with the Islamic rebel. No matter how bad ISIS is, the US getting more involved in Syria is bad news for the govt there. I doubt the administration in Syria is that stupid to allow the US to bomb away without any coordination with the govt.

[devil21]

Didn't take long before reports of attacks on things other than 'ISIS' came out. It's an amazing display of propaganda how the govt and media pull out a new boogeyman LITERALLY overnight to explain attacks on non-ISIS positions.

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-airstrikes-syria-isis-20140923-story.html


Even as it launched sweeping new airstrikes against Islamic State militants in Syria, the U.S. military said Tuesday that it had expanded the campaign to the northern Syrian city of Aleppo, targeting an offshoot of Al Qaeda said to be plotting "imminent" attacks against American and Western targets.

A total of eight U.S. air attacks carried out in Syria’s largest city were aimed at the "Khorasan Group," described in a U.S. Central Command statement as an organization of Al Qaeda veterans.

[jurgs01]

Evil minds that plot destruction...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGPD0ZBiMs0

[alucard13mm]

According to media... "tens of ISIS killed or wounded" so far from US bombings in Syria. LOL

So we spend bombs and missiles that cost us at 500k-1million USD a piece to kill some guys that are armed with AK, RPG, machete or maybe a heavy machine gun. At this rate, this fight will last 120 years.

Why does it seem war is so expensive these days? The last "legitimate" war we had was WW2 and millions of troops died in a span of 4-5 years. While wars these days seem a lot more expensive and has less progress.

I guess WIC wants to prolong this as long as possible...

[vita3]

Israel shots down Syrian plane fighting Al-queda.

Waitin for press to tell us Israel is supporting terrorism. Figure that story will come out after ww3

[tangent4ronpaul]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk30a0qsVIk


According to media... "tens of ISIS killed or wounded" so far from US bombings in Syria. LOL

So we spend bombs and missiles that cost us at 500k-1million USD a piece to kill some guys that are armed with AK, RPG, machete or maybe a heavy machine gun. At this rate, this fight will last 120 years.

Why does it seem war is so expensive these days? The last "legitimate" war we had was WW2 and millions of troops died in a span of 4-5 years. While wars these days seem a lot more expensive and has less progress.

I guess WIC wants to prolong this as long as possible...

Actually, tomahawks cost 1.5 million each so we just spent 60 million in cruise missiles alone to blow the shit out of 14 EMPTY buildings. That's before the smart munitions and what's hanging under a fighters wings cost more than the aircraft if they are smart.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/23/us-launches-air-strikes-against-isis-targets-in-syria

"Buildings that had been used openly as Isis command centres in Raqqa were destroyed. However, they had long been evacuated as momentum built towards the attacks, and their occupants had melted into the streets of the city"

I tell ya, this Obama guy has got hitting wasp nests with a baseball bat down pat! :rolleyes:

-t

[extortion17]

Assad approved. The Syrian foreign minister was on record a few days ago saying the Syrians welcome airstrikes.

I'm sure there are back channels that co ordinate the strikes so the Syrians don't use air defenses against our planes.

So WW3 is apparently averted for now.

UN will need to get involved now too . . . someone did not get their very own legislature to authorize this in his nation - so formally this didn't happen I guess.
I guess you could call it a BO blunder - it seems Rand is right - at least get formal authorization

Been going on already though . . .

USS George H.W. Bush continues sorties against ISIL


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9raBMXtFKog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9raBMXtFKog


what about a soundtrack . . .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCIUf8eYPqA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCIUf8eYPqA

collateral damage and empty buildings bombed -
oh well . . .

boots on the ground could be needed to call in the airstrikes . . .
let's go guys . . .


.

[69360]

boots on the ground could be needed to call in the airstrikes . . .
let's go guys . . .

There already are. You don't bomb and do missile strikes these days without SF or CIA on the ground to paint targets for you. News and president just don't tell you that.

[extortion17]

There already are. You don't bomb and do missile strikes these days without SF or CIA on the ground to paint targets for you. News and president just don't tell you that.

yep i knew bud (jus' wanted to let the forum not be TOO surprised)

word is aussies are - or will - actually have more pairs of boots - 600 compared to 475 USA in operation - fwiw

[69360]

The War Powers Act does not supersede the Constitution. And this is not an emergency, so The War Powers Act does not even apply. The 2001 AUMF does not apply either.

Obama's political operatives in the DOJ says they do. So they do.


Who wants to bet a missile will go astray and hit Assad?

I'll take that bet. Assad allowed this to happen. If anything happens to Assad Putin steps in and we play global thermonuclear war. It's not going to happen, they won't hit Damascus.

[extortion17]

Obama's political operatives in the DOJ says they do. So they do.



I'll take that bet. Assad allowed this to happen. If anything happens to Assad Putin steps in and we play global thermonuclear war. It's not going to happen, they won't hit Damascus.

There are ways that ANYTHING can be on the table . . .

US NATO treaty obligations to Turkey come to mind . . . again

who'd have eva' thought that WWIII would have started - according to what future history buffs want to write -
with the USA having to protect Turkey from a Hitler-esque force known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.

Hmmmm . . . it seems . . . well . . . logical , n'est-ce pas ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQfjIw3mivc


.

[nobody's_hero]

Wow. So just last year our government was upset with Assad for allegedly using chemical weapons against his people and now we're working with him against ISIS apparently since Assad gave his blessing? So doesn't that mean that ISIS must be on the same side as the Syrian rebels that John McCain thinks should be supported against Assad?

This is a clusterfuck from the start. No one even knows who is one whose side. But the MIC must be enjoying the hell out of those Tomahawk missile orders.

[ghengis86]

They couldn't bomb Syria last year after the manufactured chemical weapons plot line, so they dialed up the crazy to 11, trained (in Jordan and Saudi Arabia), armed (via Turkey-Benghazi-Stevens-Libya), and funded (Qatar, UAE, SA) the most batshit insane of the Wahabi radicals they could find, turned them loose in Iraq, where all the leftover US military equipment just happened to be sitting there, engines warm, keys in the ignition and got their pretext for bombing Syria and removing the last secular, democratically elected regime in the ME.

Meanwhile, Israel is getting oil from ISIS and Kurdish (Iraq) controlled wells/fields via Turkey and Qatar gets to participate in bombing the last country providing a stumbling block to their planned nat-gas pipeline to Europe, which would remove all of Putin's leverage he currently has over Europe via GazProm and his pipelines.

[nobody's_hero]

Yup. Mr Obama's (and the banksters') Murder Spree continues. :( As I understand, CONgress isn't even in session ATM. Everything the regime is doing is ridiculously illegal, technically. Sadly, criminals do not follow the law. Another CONstitution fail.

Another interesting thing-destroying syria will destroy the world's oldest Christian communities. (Syria is located where Antioch once was-the place where the word "Christian" was coined) :( And the supposedly "Christian Conservatives" are too busy war-mongering to notice. :mad:
Rrrrriiiiggghtt. because if we didn't have the constitution this wouldn't have happened. Obama would be a saint, obviously, and even if he weren't, the people would be taking up arms to keep our government from starting a war. But because of that constitution . . .

[Brett85]

Wow. So just last year our government was upset with Assad for allegedly using chemical weapons against his people and now we're working with him against ISIS apparently since Assad gave his blessing? So doesn't that mean that ISIS must be on the same side as the Syrian rebels that John McCain thinks should be supported against Assad?

This is a clusterfuck from the start. No one even knows who is one whose side. But the MIC must be enjoying the hell out of those Tomahawk missile orders.

No, our government refuses to work with him and still says "Assad must go," so we're bombing ISIS in Syria without his permission.

[presence]

If we could only bomb Iran and North Korea too I'd finally feel safe.

[tangent4ronpaul]

If we could only bomb Iran and North Korea too I'd finally feel safe.

Naw - we gotta bomb Russia and China and Mars too before we can truly be safe. Especially Mars! You just gotta know Marvin and his ilk are playing pin the tail on the rover as we speak.

-t

[presence]

http://evolveent.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/marvin_the_martian1.jpg

[liberty2897]

"Fuck it. I quit."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeW68AINk2w
How to Quit ... Sep 22, 2014

[extortion17]

If we could only bomb Iran and North Korea too I'd finally feel safe.

uhhh . . . ya' might not have to wait all THAT long . . .
but probably jus' wait until after the November midterm elections as this government is in a holding pattern . . .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0fT-a7TrXI


.

[ClydeCoulter]

RPI

US War on Syria, Day Two: Civilian Casualties, New Scarier Group Hit, Israel Joins

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/peace-and-prosperity/2014/september/23/us-war-on-syria,-day-two-civilian-casualties,-new-scarier-group-hit,-israel-joins.aspx

[Brian4Liberty]

Naw - we gotta bomb Russia and China and Mars too before we can truly be safe. Especially Mars! You just gotta know Marvin and his ilk are playing pin the tail on the rover as we speak.

-t

Mars is an imminent threat! Lindsey Graham saw Marvin plotting to destroy the Earth on television. He had WMDs, it's definitive proof.

[asurfaholic]

Lets bomb more people hoping that makes less people hate us.

Sick of it all

[orenbus]

They couldn't bomb Syria last year after the manufactured chemical weapons plot line, so they dialed up the crazy to 11, trained (in Jordan and Saudi Arabia), armed (via Turkey-Benghazi-Stevens-Libya), and funded (Qatar, UAE, SA) the most batshit insane of the Wahabi radicals they could find, turned them loose in Iraq, where all the leftover US military equipment just happened to be sitting there, engines warm, keys in the ignition and got their pretext for bombing Syria and removing the last secular, democratically elected regime in the ME.

Meanwhile, Israel is getting oil from ISIS and Kurdish (Iraq) controlled wells/fields via Turkey and Qatar gets to participate in bombing the last country providing a stumbling block to their planned nat-gas pipeline to Europe, which would remove all of Putin's leverage he currently has over Europe via GazProm and his pipelines.

"democratically elected", are you sure about that? From my understanding before Assad, his father was in power for 30 years and they haven't had a multi-candidate election for President in decades.

[69360]

There are ways that ANYTHING can be on the table . . .

US NATO treaty obligations to Turkey come to mind . . . again

who'd have eva' thought that WWIII would have started - according to what future history buffs want to write -
with the USA having to protect Turkey from a Hitler-esque force known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.

Hmmmm . . . it seems . . . well . . . logical , n'est-ce pas ?




.

Except the Turks tacitly support IS. They don't stop the flow of black market oil across their border and don't stop the flow of fighters.


No, our government refuses to work with him and still says "Assad must go," so we're bombing ISIS in Syria without his permission.

You REALLY believe that??? The Syrian foreign minister is on record saying they welcome strikes against IS, all Obama has to do is call Assad an coordinate them. Which obviously happened on some level, as the Syrians didn't fire on our planes and we didn't knock out the Syrians air defenses. Which are Russian made by the way and well not top shelf, still very good stuff.

[extortion17]

Lets bomb more people hoping that makes less people hate us.



Sounds like a quote made by . . .

a0 Dick Cheney

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo161/sunblush/cheney01.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/user/sunblush/media/cheney01.jpg.html)


b) the Dynamic Duo and maverick "Odd" couple . . . of Johnny Miss-speak "Doubletalk" McCain and his husband Lyndsey Graham
("Lydnsey that hickey hasn't gone away yet . . . see!")

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo161/sunblush/mccainshowsdickhickeyoff03a_zps7520f110.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/user/sunblush/media/mccainshowsdickhickeyoff03a_zps7520f110.jpg.html)


c) Sarah "yes I write on my hand to remember stuff at debates" Palin

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo161/sunblush/palinhand01.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/user/sunblush/media/palinhand01.jpg.html)


d) Hillary "my husband did NOT sleep with that woman" Clinton

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo161/sunblush/hilary002.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/user/sunblush/media/hilary002.jpg.html)


e) All of the above


.

[Brett85]

You REALLY believe that??? The Syrian foreign minister is on record saying they welcome strikes against IS, all Obama has to do is call Assad an coordinate them. Which obviously happened on some level, as the Syrians didn't fire on our planes and we didn't knock out the Syrians air defenses. Which are Russian made by the way and well not top shelf, still very good stuff.

I don't know. Our government and the media keep talking about how the "drawback" of these air strikes is that they'll help Assad. It won't surprise me if we decide to bomb Assad at the same time we're bombing ISIS.

[Brian4Liberty]

514459321405825026

514459705041616896

[tangent4ronpaul]

Lets bomb more people hoping that makes less people hate us.

Sick of it all

"funny" how OBL told us several times that they were attacking us because we were in their land. Overthrowing governments, installing puppet dictators, stealing their oil polluting there culture with western attitudes and movies, Micky D's and stuff like that. umm, yeah and dropping bombs on them - killing women and children.

Now where are all these factions coming from again? Oh yeah! AQ... or what's left of it.

-t

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Why are people here complaining that Obama didn't seek congressional approval? Because he didn't follow instructions on a piece of paper?

Do you think if Obama went to Congress, the air strikes would not have occurred in the first place? Of course Congress would have voted in favor of what the Obama administration is currently pursuing, so in the end you'd still wind up with the same result!

[tangent4ronpaul]

Why are people here complaining that Obama didn't seek congressional approval? Because he didn't follow instructions on a piece of paper?

Do you think if Obama went to Congress, the air strikes would not have occurred in the first place? Of course Congress would have voted in favor of what the Obama administration is currently pursuing, so in the end you'd still wind up with the same result!

Because Rand was right. The dem critters are terrified of their constituents and don't want to go on the record voting for yet another war. They know we are sick of it.

-t

[devil21]

Why are people here complaining that Obama didn't seek congressional approval? Because he didn't follow instructions on a piece of paper?

Do you think if Obama went to Congress, the air strikes would not have occurred in the first place? Of course Congress would have voted in favor of what the Obama administration is currently pursuing, so in the end you'd still wind up with the same result!

Maybe, maybe not, but at least it would be paying some level of lip service to the rule of law. But no can't do that since Congress is too scared that they may lose elections due to their votes and the Pres is providing cover for them. They aren't even bothering with the charades much anymore and that's a bad sign.

[JK/SEA]

Lets bomb more people hoping that makes less people hate us.

Sick of it all


its all just a 'perpetual' money making scheme at the expense of U.S. taxpayers...no one gives a shit if anyone hates us or not. It doesn't matter. Never will.

[orenbus]

Why are people here complaining that Obama didn't seek congressional approval? Because he didn't follow instructions on a piece of paper?

Do you think if Obama went to Congress, the air strikes would not have occurred in the first place? Of course Congress would have voted in favor of what the Obama administration is currently pursuing, so in the end you'd still wind up with the same result!

Yea but then at least then some of our more reasonable members of congress would have a chance to voice their concerns and those that are outright against action would have had a forum to voice their opposition. Congress may have ultimately voted in favor of it, but we shouldn't be disregarding the process just because we can, that is what continues to corrode our rights and protections.

[extortion17]

. . . I'm sure Obama will meet his 48 hour requirement just like he did for Libya :rolleyes:

....Bears vs Jets. Naaa no symbolism there....

youtube fron CVN-77 shows this is going on for about 10 days already fwiw
Putin's bears certainly with a watchful eye - all WWIII prelims I guess

USS George H.W. Bush continues sorties against ISIL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9raBMXtFKog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9raBMXtFKog


Why are people here complaining that Obama didn't seek congressional approval? Because he didn't follow instructions on a piece of paper?

Do you think if Obama went to Congress, the air strikes would not have occurred in the first place? Of course Congress would have voted in favor of what the Obama administration is currently pursuing, so in the end you'd still wind up with the same result!


Because Rand was right. The dem critters are terrified of their constituents and don't want to go on the record voting for yet another war. They know we are sick of it.

-t

Rand is Right ! That is incredibly naive NIU Students for Liberty . . . please watch as much of this as you can . . .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DveDwEk122Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DveDwEk122Y

go viral if need be . . . the congressional approval makes a world of difference imho - Harry Reid Dimwit politics.
21 Dim Senators and 15 GOP Senators up for re-election do not go on record before their constituents in a month and a half . . .
it all pollutes the type of republic democracy we are . . . your reasoning is the same question as Why have a Senate ? they won't vote !
. . . just abolish it . . . it makes no difference, right ?

[Brian4Liberty]

Because Rand was right. The dem critters are terrified of their constituents and don't want to go on the record voting for yet another war. They know we are sick of it.

-t


Maybe, maybe not, but at least it would be paying some level of lip service to the rule of law. But no can't do that since Congress is too scared that they may lose elections due to their votes and the Pres is providing cover for them. They aren't even bothering with the charades much anymore and that's a bad sign.


Yea but then at least then some of our more reasonable members of congress would have a chance to voice their concerns and those that are outright against action would have had a forum to voice their opposition. Congress may have ultimately voted in favor of it, but we shouldn't be disregarding the process just because we can, that is what continues to corrode our rights and protections.

+reps

That about covers it...

[Brett85]

"funny" how OBL told us several times that they were attacking us because we were in their land. Overthrowing governments, installing puppet dictators, stealing their oil polluting there culture with western attitudes and movies, Micky D's and stuff like that. umm, yeah and dropping bombs on them - killing women and children.

Now where are all these factions coming from again? Oh yeah! AQ... or what's left of it.

-t

How exactly do you stop a private business from opening up individual restaurants in Middle Eastern countries? Wouldn't that go against libertarian principles to stop them from doing that? If what you're saying is true, then it seems like part of the reason they hate us would be because of libertarian policies, such as free enterprise.

[pcosmar]

How exactly do you stop a private business from opening up individual restaurants in Middle Eastern countries? Wouldn't that go against libertarian principles to stop them from doing that? If what you're saying is true, then it seems like part of the reason they hate us would be because of libertarian policies, such as free enterprise.

??
The only reason for Shit food restaurants to open there is to feed Americans.
I don't think your average Muslim is all that interested in bacon cheese burgers.

[Brett85]

??
The only reason for Shit food restaurants to open there is to feed Americans.
I don't think your average Muslim is all that interested in bacon cheese burgers.

Huh? So there's a bunch of Americans living in Middle Eastern countries who go out and eat at fast food restaurants?

[pcosmar]

Huh? So there's a bunch of Americans living in Middle Eastern countries who go out and eat at fast food restaurants?

Yes,, there are in some.
CIA Spooks. Oil Company operatives. Military personal. Corporate Contractors. etc.

I have nothing against travel and trade.. and such restaurants can open to serve them.
I personally would choose local cuisine,,, but that is me. I would seek out local "home cooking".

I have heard the same argument here,, about foreigners moving in and bringing their customs and traditions here..
Balkanization is a term often used.

[HOLLYWOOD]

There's nothing on those F-18s... what are those pilots going to do, drop their centerline tanks or a deuce on ISIS?
youtube fron CVN-77 shows this is going on for about 10 days already fwiw
Putin's bears certainly with a watchful eye - all WWIII prelims I guess

USS George H.W. Bush continues sorties against ISIL


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9raBMXtFKog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9raBMXtFKog

[69360]

I don't know. Our government and the media keep talking about how the "drawback" of these air strikes is that they'll help Assad. It won't surprise me if we decide to bomb Assad at the same time we're bombing ISIS.

It's not that simple. Assad has real Russian AA systems. It wouldn't be like hitting Iraq or Afghanistan. The Syrians knew our planes were in the air as soon as they left the carriers. If the US hit Assad, you can be damn sure he would start shooting our planes out the sky. Then Putin would step up, he has his only base in the Mediterranean in Tartus Syria and will not risk having Assad fall and losing it. It's a strategic base for the Russians, without that their ships in the Mediterranean have to go all the way back to the Black Sea bases. Once Putin gets involved you have either a proxy war at best or WW3 at worst. So no, I can't forsee a scenario where the US bombs Assad.

[tangent4ronpaul]

How exactly do you stop a private business from opening up individual restaurants in Middle Eastern countries? Wouldn't that go against libertarian principles to stop them from doing that? If what you're saying is true, then it seems like part of the reason they hate us would be because of libertarian policies, such as free enterprise.

Me N0 bah ... Them beheading you ... ummm

[tangent4ronpaul]

How exactly do you stop a private business from opening up individual restaurants in Middle Eastern countries? Wouldn't that go against libertarian principles to stop them from doing that? If what you're saying is true, then it seems like part of the reason they hate us would be because of libertarian policies, such as free enterprise.

You obviously have a disconnect with there culture...

-t

[twomp]

It's not that simple. Assad has real Russian AA systems. It wouldn't be like hitting Iraq or Afghanistan. The Syrians knew our planes were in the air as soon as they left the carriers. If the US hit Assad, you can be damn sure he would start shooting our planes out the sky. Then Putin would step up, he has his only base in the Mediterranean in Tartus Syria and will not risk having Assad fall and losing it. It's a strategic base for the Russians, without that their ships in the Mediterranean have to go all the way back to the Black Sea bases. Once Putin gets involved you have either a proxy war at best or WW3 at worst. So no, I can't forsee a scenario where the US bombs Assad.

What are you talking about? Israel bombs Syria a couple times a year but somehow their Air Defense can't stop Israel's planes but can stop our planes?

[extortion17]

There's nothing on those F-18s... what are those pilots going to do, drop their centerline tanks or a deuce on ISIS?

Huh ?
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo161/sunblush/f18extordinance_zps30eb486c.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/user/sunblush/media/f18extordinance_zps30eb486c.jpg.html)

pretty sure I spotted an AGM-45 Shrike in the youtube from the USS George Herbert Walker Bush -
it's range is 18-25 miles - flies at Mach 2 - and seeks radiation to take out radar installations

the external ordinance payloads aren't coming back . . . so ?

One could guess these first sorties are knocking out radar - the bigger shit comes later though

GBU-54 bomb buiding in August as well


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr93bfK_Mis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr93bfK_Mis


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwBbrngafl0

[HOLLYWOOD]

You posted the title
USS George H.W. Bush continues sorties against ISIL

and the video of launching of fighters off of CVN-77... Well, all the fighters that launched, none of them had any active munitions/weapons on their hard points.
Huh ?
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo161/sunblush/f18extordinance_zps30eb486c.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/user/sunblush/media/f18extordinance_zps30eb486c.jpg.html)

pretty sure I spotted an AGM-45 Shrike in the youtube from the USS George Herbert Walker Bush -
it's range is 18-25 miles - flies at Mach 2 - and seeks radiation to take out radar installations

the external ordinance payloads aren't coming back . . . so ?

One could guess these first sorties are knocking out radar - the bigger shit comes later though

GBU-54 bomb buiding in August as well

[orenbus]

It's not that simple. Assad has real Russian AA systems. It wouldn't be like hitting Iraq or Afghanistan. The Syrians knew our planes were in the air as soon as they left the carriers. If the US hit Assad, you can be damn sure he would start shooting our planes out the sky. Then Putin would step up, he has his only base in the Mediterranean in Tartus Syria and will not risk having Assad fall and losing it. It's a strategic base for the Russians, without that their ships in the Mediterranean have to go all the way back to the Black Sea bases. Once Putin gets involved you have either a proxy war at best or WW3 at worst. So no, I can't forsee a scenario where the US bombs Assad.

That's why they deployed the F-22s last night just in case, their first combat sorties. 'm not sure if Putin would step in or not necessarily after all the built up last year must have at least had that consideration the push for some type of military reaction to the alleged chemical attacks, but who knows.

[liberty2897]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/photos-released-demolished-isis-buildings-u-s-airstrikes-article-1.1949839


“You are seeing the beginning of the sustained campaign and strikes like this can be expected,” Mayville said.

The raids on Syria marked the combat debut of the F-22, one of the most expensive fighter planes ever made and a weapon policymakers had been reluctant to unleash until now.

It was chosen, Air Force officials said, because it is able to elude Syria’s sophisticated air defenses and can deliver a 1000-pound guided bomb to a target 15 miles away.

...and there you go.... the real reason that we *NEED* to make up or embellish our allies enemies.. That jet was expensive and we will all be paying for it for the rest of our lives.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II

The total life-cycle cost for the entire American fleet is estimated to be US$1.51 trillion over its 50-year life, or $618 million per plane.[97] In order to reduce the estimated $1 trillion cost of the F-35 over its 50-year lifetime, the USAF is considering reducing Lockheed Martin's role in Contractor Logistics Support.[98

[orenbus]

Russia And Iran Agree U.S. Bombing Of Syria Is ILLEGAL! @ 2:20


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gscdhkE0Z2c

[extortion17]

You posted the title and the video of launching of fighters off of CVN-77... Well, all the fighters that launched, none of them had any active munitions/weapons on their hard points.

OK Hollywood, I'll admit that I also was at first as skeptical as you may be still . . .but . . .
I believe that this video is genuine, as published at url http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9raBMXtFKog

the title of this video is listed as:
USS George H.W. Bush continues sorties against ISIL

Published on Sep 12, 2014
ARABIAN GULF (Sept. 11, 2014) Sailors direct aircraft on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier USS George H.W. Bush (CVN 77). George H.W. Bush is supporting maritime security operations and theater security cooperation efforts in the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility. The president has authorized U.S. Central Command to conduct military operations in support of humanitarian aid deliveries and targeted airstrikes in Iraq to protect U.S. personnel and interests, in response to activities conducted by Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) terrorists. (U.S. Navy video/Released)


This is edited to a 3 minute even video - what is being shown is what you are allowed to see.
Both the Boeing F/A-18E Super Hornet and the related twin-seat F/A-18F are seen.

Some may not have external ordinance as the payload

first F-18 seen is piloted by Lt. Justin Chalker
411 is the only one we see land on the carrier deck

307 appears to have loaded it's payload - GBU-54 bombs

There are only a couple that are seen taking off -
in a courtroom I guess you are correct - this edited video proves nothing . . . it could all be fake . . .
so, is that your point ?
I am posting a fake video ?

[orenbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzXiRIZ8DYQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S660TKzoZ6g

[extortion17]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzXiRIZ8DYQ




Notice the F-22 tucks away it's ordinance . . . note this videoclip at the 1:17 mark

[extortion17]

Sept. 23: ISIL compound strike


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bpakeG9x7o
Published on Sep 23, 2014
Weapons system video of U.S. airstrike against an ISIL compound northwest of Ar Raqqah, Syria, Sept. 23, 2014.


Sept. 23: ISIL Storage Facility


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5tyRw8INSs
Published on Sep 23, 2014
ISIL storage facility near Abu Kamal, Syria, struck by U.S. strike aircraft Sept. 23, 2014.


Sept. 23: ISIL Vehicle Staging Ground

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nShvy9S4pg4

Published on Sep 23, 2014
ISIL vehicle staging near Abu Kamal, Syria, struck by U.S. strike aircraft Sept. 23, 2014.

[orenbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGeggFxrHO0

[orenbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kk5nJwPygU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rlP-KxgM-c

[orenbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNj9Gt2M7Qo

[orenbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Iu0tKmC0I

[devil21]

Where is Hezbollah during all of this? I have a hard time believing that if bombs and missiles are really being dropped onto Syria by US, Arab, and Israeli air forces that Hezbollah would just stand idly by and watch it happen. HOLLYWOOD's pointing out of the YT vid purporting to be of sorties, while the jets aren't carrying any ordinance, is interesting. Something about this is starting to smell to me but can't put my finger on it.

[extortion17]

Nice view of some of the external ordinance payloads in these daylight operations . . .

one can see at about 0:26 the AGM-45 Shrike - 18 to 25 mile range flies itself at Mach 2 to seek radiation source, typically radar installations
(probably blows up some mom and pop yellowcake centrifuges in the kitchens of Raqqa and Mosul by "mistake" ) - collateral damage is sad.

The most advanced infrared-tracking, short-range air-to-air missile in the world is at the 2 min. mark - the standard issue on the F-18 -
they never fly without the Sidewinder.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzdkQyCxjns


.

[pessimist]

Apparently someone by the name of Mariam Al Mansouri lead the airstrikes.


http://www.sidra.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Maryam-Al-Mansoori.jpg



http://www.thenational.ae/storyimage/AB/20140610/ARTICLE/140619885/AR/0/AR-140619885.jpg

[FindLiberty]

Lets bomb more people hoping that makes less people hate us. Sick of it all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXkqNbOlLt8#t=66

[FindLiberty]

...this is starting to smell to me but can't put my finger on it.

Gubermint

[extortion17]

Apparently someone by the name of Mariam Al Mansouri lead the airstrikes.


http://www.sidra.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Maryam-Al-Mansoori.jpg



http://www.thenational.ae/storyimage/AB/20140610/ARTICLE/140619885/AR/0/AR-140619885.jpg

Uhhh . . . ok . . one UAE pilot led it all huh . . . ?

this is a bit of PR . . . which is OK enuf

but you know who was coverin' her arse in that all . . . ?


PS - we could 'ave used her in Vietnam instead of Johnny Sidney McCain


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c


Only one woman US Navy pilot that I know of that would be flying the F/A-18 Hornet
off the USS George H.W. Bush carrier deck at night with the boys . . . btw

see jessica at the about the 2:05 mark


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDSzg8PqKyw




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzdkQyCxjns


http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo161/sunblush/fa18hornetparrettjessica01a_zps8a9283ae.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/user/sunblush/media/fa18hornetparrettjessica01a_zps8a9283ae.jpg.html)

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo161/sunblush/spearfish101_zps6b0f0211.jpg (http://s372.photobucket.com/user/sunblush/media/spearfish101_zps6b0f0211.jpg.html)

[extortion17]

and keep in mind . . .
as emphasized at the 1:30 to 1:36 mark in this newest posted youtube


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZD7vcGh2do

CVN-77 is a huge target for Putin and any stray bears . . .
and that there is extensive water/underwater USNavy support,
as well as all the international air support - Aussie, Danish, and French all throughout NATO -
all the landing strips throughout any Middle East partner-nations

Biggest war effort - albeit without a Senate vote - in memory of most all of us in the forums here, imho

[devil21]

Im glad extortion was finally banned. Way to telegraph it.