House Expected to Vote (WEDNESDAY) on Training Syrian Rebels to Fight ISIS

[orenbus]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/17/us/politics/house-expected-to-vote-on-training-syrian-rebels-to-fight-isis.html

If you are against it and haven't already contact your congressman whether they are a Dem. or Repub., tell them to vote no on funding "moderate" rebels in Syria.

[orenbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACrR9tWAsoA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61qo1Qg1AbU

[orenbus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiC-xAYeJB8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVuOEFGWG_o

[enhanced_deficit]

House will show its true colors tomorrow.

If House truly stands with Israel, it would not vote to attack ISIS ... but would vote to attack Syria or Iran.

Israel ‘Concerned’ over US War On ISIS (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?459855-Cat-out-of-bag-Israel-%E2%80%98Concerned%E2%80%99-over-US-War-On-ISIS&)

[TaftFan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBa4WRRFtME&list=UUCpcKqQfp9gVkeD1t7uYLKQ

[Brian4Liberty]

House will show its true colors tomorrow.

If House truly stands with Israel, it would not vote to attack ISIS ... but would vote to attack Syria or Iran.

Israel ‘Concerned’ over US War On ISIS (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?459855-Cat-out-of-bag-Israel-%E2%80%98Concerned%E2%80%99-over-US-War-On-ISIS&)

Considering that ISIS has come to non-aggression agreements with the other anti-Assad factions in Syria, the US helping any of them will be for the purpose of attacking and over-throwing Assad in Syria.

[vita3]

I'd rather give Assad $500 million to attack Isis. Putting one more bbgun in the hands of another radical ME Islamist is insanity.

[orenbus]

Session begins in 3 minutes, make sure to have contacted your rep and get your friend and family to do the same.

http://www.house.gov

Edit: Legislative Day begins at 12:00 EST

[orenbus]

Senate voting tomorrow.

[orenbus]

Just sent this to both of my state senators:


Dear Senator XXXXX,

I've been paying close attention to the latest developments and information coming out of the Middle East in regards to ISIS. Wanted to communicate a couple of points to you so that you as my representative in Washington know how I think this should be addressed.

1. Regardless of what is being proposed by President Obama whether it is continued offensive military strikes in Iraq and especially if there are strikes in Syria, this should come to an up or down vote in Congress. The constitution is explicit in this matter when it comes to military action that results in the equivalent of a Declaration of War or Letters of Marque and Reprisal. The President requires congressional approval before taking any military action and this needs to be made clear by the members of congress including yourself.

I will quote Rand Paul here: "The constitution's very clear. They debated this in the beginning. Hamilton as well as Madison are very explicit in the Federalist Papers, they say we gave the war making power to Congress because we wanted to make it difficult to go to war."

2. I do not believe we should be arming or spending any money to support any groups in Syria regardless of the dollar amounts or who they are. It has become clear to me that the civil war currently raging in Syria is beyond the control of any outside country at this time and giving arms to groups such as FSA have a high probability that those same arms will end up in the hands of ISIS or some other extremist group that serve no benefit to our national defense. Again this should be a separate vote, and on this particular issue I would urge you to vote no. For more clarification on this issue I would refer you to a video segment recorded on Sept 10 2014 where former CIA operative Bob Baer discusses how there are no "moderate" forces in Syria that we can work with. Link is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03JGjGpUqk4

Also more recently there has been reports that Syrian rebel "moderate" groups have also signed a non aggression pact with ISIS so I'm not sure that the money or training we provide will be helping our national defense in the long run;

http://thehill.com/policy/international/217645-syrian-rebels-isis-agree-to-non-aggression-pact

Thanks for taking the time to review this, I look forward to your decision and opinion on these matters.

[Brian4Liberty]

Session begins in 3 minutes, make sure to have contacted your rep and get your friend and family to do the same.

http://www.house.gov

Edit: Legislative Day begins at 12:00 EST

Do we have a number for this vote?

[specsaregood]

Session begins in 3 minutes, make sure to have contacted your rep and get your friend and family to do the same.


I dun contacted mine and told him NO to this horseshit. But I expect the pussy ex football player to roll over and take it up the hind for the MIC anyways.

[orenbus]

Do we have a number for this vote?

Haven't found it yet, from what I'm hearing they are going to give the house two votes one for the amendment and then one for the CR, but the Senate will get one vote just on the CR with the amendment rolled in.

[orenbus]

LOL anchor on MSNBC in an exchange with a couple of Middle East security experts said that she was "concerned about the vote this afternoon", meaning she's not sure arming the rebels is a good idea.

Both guests were saying things like we've already had a case where we gave the Iraq Army weapons and they weren't able to effectively defend themselves and hold onto the weapons so ISIS was able to obtain them. How is the Syrian rebels going to bode any better and what happens to the weapons we give them? Different angle same argument, there is no upside to giving the "moderate" Syrian forces U.S. Weapons.

[orenbus]

Update: Vote to happen in a few hours after the next couple of scheduled House session meetings.

For those looking to watch the vote unfold that don't have CSPAN, floor live stream here:

http://www.house.gov/content/features/story2/

[CPUd]

Nancy Pelosi giving history lesson LOL...

[Brian4Liberty]

Now is the time to call your Representative. Use their Washington phone number.

[CPUd]

They are still voting on something to do with auditing the fed, I don't think it is the vote, though.

edit: maybe it was the 'Audit the Fed' vote- it passed 333-92.

[Brian4Liberty]

The establishment vs. the Americans.


House, in Unusual Alignments, Moves Toward Vote on ISIS Fight

WASHINGTON — A House divided along unusual and unpredictable lines moved toward a vote Wednesday to authorize the training and arming of Syrian rebels to confront the militant group Islamic State, with President Obama leading efforts to secure a solid majority.

The showdown Wednesday afternoon was over a narrow military measure with no money attached, but it took on outsize importance. Speaker John A. Boehner of Ohio and Representative Nancy Pelosi, Democrat of California and the minority leader, strongly backed the training legislation, and both sought to portray it as a modest measure.

But the theater around the debate and vote belied that characterization. The president personally lobbied for its passage, calling several Democrats to appeal for their support, according to House Democratic leadership aides. Opponents in both parties framed the vote as a step toward a wider war in a region where American troops have been fighting for more than a decade. Republican and Democratic vote-counting operations said they would not press for “yes” on what they termed a “vote of conscience.”

“Launching airstrikes on another country, by any standard, by any definition, is an act of war,” said Representative Rick Nolan, Democrat of Minnesota. “Have we not had enough of imperial presidencies doing what they want in the world?”
...
But an unusual coalition of antiwar Democrats, more isolationist-leaning Republicans, libertarians and hawks with grave doubts that the training mission will work came together in opposition.

“It is more complex than just an up-or-down vote on arming and training members of the Free Syrian Army,” said Representative Barbara Lee of California, a veteran antiwar Democrat. “The consequences of this vote, whether it’s written in the amendment or not, will be a further expansion of a war currently taking place and our further involvement in a sectarian war.”

Representative Chris Gibson of New York, a Republican veteran of the war in Iraq, said he could not vote to authorize a program he was certain would fail.

“There’s nothing more important for a member of Congress than to vote to send a young man or woman to war to die,” said Representative Walter B. Jones of North Carolina, one of the first Republicans to turn against the war in Iraq during the Bush administration. “We’re not there yet, but we’re heading that way, and that’s what bothers me greatly.”
...
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/18/us/politics/house-in-unusual-alignment-moves-toward-vote-on-isis-fight.html

[CPUd]

They are using the rest of the debate time now. About 1 hour, 40 minutes. A lot of commotion on the floor.

2 minutes for Marsha Blackburn

Their phones must be lighting up, commotion on the floor is due to staff members talking with people in their respective offices.

[devil21]

Anybody know the actual bill numbers? A new "action" thread with the bill numbers in the title would be helpful. I'd do it but have to go out.

[Brian4Liberty]

Wow. Almost every speaker is an establishment war-monger that is urging for full blown war.

Loretta Sanchez is an exception:

512304703318016003

[Brian4Liberty]

Wow, Duncan Hunter threw in a dig at the Saudis, "who provided the hijackers on 9/11".

512307647841071104

[CPUd]

Paul Broun against it
Lloyd Doggett against it

[Brian4Liberty]

512312844235591680

[CPUd]

Tom McClintock against it.
Tulsi Gabbard against it.

[Brian4Liberty]

512315080890130432

[Brian4Liberty]

FYI, Tulsi Gabbard was recently in Iraq, so she has some first hand knowledge of the situation.

512315897038786561

[CPUd]

Carolyn Maloney against it.
Thomas Massie against it.

[Brian4Liberty]

Good one Thomas! Someone needs to stand up against these huge omnibus-type bills with pork and war all wrapped up in them!

512322373484576768

[CPUd]

If this needs 2/3, they don't have the votes. If it needs a majority, I think it will barely pass.

[orenbus]

Media has been talking like it will pass, would be cool if it doesn't, would be a major upset for leadership in both parties and especially in the Administration.

[Brian4Liberty]

Who is Beto O'Rourke? He was pretty good, demanding a DoW, and opposing adding this to a CR.

512328027976380416

[Brian4Liberty]

Rothfus was pretty good too. Like Massie, he made a point about how unprincipled it is to include this in a CR.

512330131595997184

[Brian4Liberty]

It's almost shocking to hear so many Democrats talking about the Constitution...

512331613443596288


WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, Congressman Jerrold Nadler, a veteran member of the House Judiciary Committee, will deliver the following statement on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives (as prepared for delivery):

“Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to the amendment.

“Mr. Speaker, I know the scourge of violent Islamic terrorism all too well. I represent the World Trade Center in New York that was attacked on September 11th 2001.

“So, I agree with the President that we must work together to combat the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, aka ‘ISIL.'

“Today, however, ISIL cannot project military power beyond the Middle East. ISIL is a direct military threat to our allies and to our interests in the Middle East. Perhaps we should help bolster the defenses of our allies such as Jordan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the Emirates.

“The current threat to the United States is from Europeans and Americans who may train with ISIL in the Middle East and then return to the United States to do us harm. This threat cannot be fought by military means in Iraq and Syria, but by counter-intelligence, appropriate surveillance, and border control here and abroad.

“But when it comes to ISIL operations in the Middle East, those very same operations that threaten our allies, we must ask why we do not see these threatened countries offering troops on the ground. Why are we more interested in their defense than they are?

“These are some of the questions we in Congress should debate before we vote to go to war. And make no mistake, the offensive campaign of air attacks against ISIL that President Obama recently announced clearly constitutes war within the meaning of the Constitution. The Constitution very deliberately places the decision to go to war with the American people, acting through Congress – not with the President. The decision to go to war against ISIL and to expand our efforts into countries like Syria requires Congressional authorization.

“The Authorization for the Use of Military Force of 2001 cannot be relied upon for Congressional authority for acts of war in circumstances completely unforeseen in 2001, against an enemy that did not exist in 2001. Identification of ISIL with Al Qaeda, or with the planning of the attacks on September 11, 2001, is specious. The Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 was similarly not about ISIL, it was supposed to be about eliminating the nuclear and chemical weapon threat posed by Saddam Hussein’s regime. To claim otherwise is simply dishonest.

“Congress must assert its constitutional power to authorize or reject the use of force in Iraq and Syria. But, we are not being asked to authorize a new conflict with ISIL, even if that is implied by our vote today. And, therein, lays the danger. This vote today, without a future promise of a vote on a wider Authorization of the Use of Military Force, will be taken by the public, the media, and perhaps even the courts as a de facto Authorization of Military Force in Syria.

“This would undermine our ability to seriously debate the very real questions before us. How deadly is the threat we are facing and what is the best way to eliminate that threat? What will happen when American fliers are shot down over Syria, and perhaps beheaded on television by ISIL? Will the demand for revenge be overwhelming? Just how steep is the slippery slope we are embarking upon? How long with the conflict last? Is there an exit strategy? What does victory look like? How much will it cost? How many U.S. lives will be lost? Who are we arming in Syria? Do they share our long term interests? What are the odds those arms will be turned against us or our allies?

“It is precisely these types of questions that should be asked when Congress seeks to authorize the use of force. Until we have that debate in Congress, and answer these questions, and make a decision on an AUMF, we should not step foot on the slippery slope to another long war. And approving this amendment would be a big step onto that slippery slope.”
...
http://nadler.house.gov/press-release/rep-nadler-vote-against-syria-amendment

[specsaregood]

This Kinzinger fool needs to go fly a kite.

[Brian4Liberty]

512332987413692416

[Brian4Liberty]

This Kinzinger fool needs to go fly a kite.

Kinzinger is a noeconservative slimeball RINO who is in bed with Lindsey Graham.

[orenbus]

I liked the one guy that broke out the pictures of, tanks and humvees, that are now in the hands of ISIS that were taken from the Iraqs and asking how is that working out for everyone?

[Brian4Liberty]

I liked the one guy that broke out the pictures of, tanks and humvees, that are now in the hands of ISIS that were taken from the Iraqs and asking how is that working out for everyone?

That was Ted Poe. He was good.

[orenbus]

Voting has begun.

http://www.house.gov/content/features/story2/

[Lucille]

CIA to Obama: We Already Did Your Dumb Plan And It's 'Doomed to Failure'
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?459977-CIA-to-Obama-We-Already-Did-Your-Dumb-Plan-And-It-s-Doomed-to-Failure


At least war skeptics can now confidently state that the president's plan will fail, since it has already failed.

[orenbus]

1 minute left and 200+ people not voted? Wow.

Has got to be an election year. :rolleyes:

[CPUd]

LOL all of them waiting to see if it will pass before voting.

[Brian4Liberty]

1 minute left and 200+ people not voted? Wow.

Has got to be an election year. :rolleyes:

Talking to their staff to see how the calls are coming in. Negotiating with Party leaders to see who gets to vote no.

[Lucille]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-17/house-begins-vote-funding-arms-moderate-now-syrian-rebels-and-ex-im-bank


However, what few have also noticed is that the bill also includes an extension for funding the Export-Import bank.
[...]

The bipartisan effort to aid Mr. Obama’s campaign against the group, also known as ISIS, is colliding with a separate fight among Republicans over the Export-Import Bank, which guarantees loans to overseas customers of American exporters but which conservatives denounce as crony capitalism. Some conservative Republicans in the House are eager to oppose any measure that extends the agency’s life but reluctant to vote against the ISIS measure. They had hoped the two issues would be broken into separate bills.

But Republican leaders, eager to get their candidates back on the campaign trail, rebuffed their conservative colleagues. They argued that Senate Democratic leaders would have rolled the authorization for the Syrian rebels into the funding and Export-Import Bank bill anyway, then sent the package back to the House for yet another vote.

[specsaregood]

LOL all of them waiting to see if it will pass before voting.

indeed, passed. bunch of morons

[devil21]

indeed, passed. bunch of morons

They know who pays for their election campaigns and it's not you and me.

So the House basically has voted to give 'aid' to ISIS in order to fight ISIS. Only in 'Murica!

[Brian4Liberty]

indeed, passed. bunch of morons

So all it takes is a bare majority?

[Brian4Liberty]

They know who pays for their election campaigns and it's not you and me.

So the House basically has voted to give 'aid' to ISIS in order to fight ISIS. Only in 'Murica!

You've said it before, this is about fighting Assad, not ISIS. Some reps even came out and said it. Tulsi Gabbard for example.

[specsaregood]

So all it takes is a bare majority?

I assumed so. do you know different? If they needed 2/3rds they would have gotten em. Its not like they would have brought it to vote if they didn't know it was gonna pass.

[orenbus]

Amendment adopted. :(

GOP - Yea: 159 // Nay: 71
DEM - Yea: 114 // Nay: 85
TOTAL - Yea: 273 // Nay: 156
Not voting - 3

[Brian4Liberty]

I assumed so. do you know different? If they needed 2/3rds they would have gotten em. Its not like they would have brought it to vote if they didn't know it was gonna pass.

I didn't know. IMHO, it should require 80% for those puppets to do anything new. They could repeal with 50%+1 though.

[Brian4Liberty]

The Washington NeoComPost was first out with a celebratory story:


The House on Wednesday approved President Obama’s plan to train and equip moderate Syrian rebels to counter the growing threat of the Islamic State terrorist organization even though lawmakers in both parties remain deeply skeptical about its chances for success.

The Senate is expected to give the plan final approval Thursday.

Despite sweeping bipartisan agreement on the vote, dozens of lawmakers have picked away at aspects of the president’s emerging plan in recent days from the floor of the House and Senate and in interviews.
...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress-poised-to-approve-obamas-iraq-syria-military-strategy-amid-skepticism/2014/09/17/c2494df2-3e85-11e4-b0ea-8141703bbf6f_story.html

[William Tell]

Link to the rollcall vote, please?

[Brian4Liberty]

Link to the rollcall vote, please?


Just came out:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2014/roll507.xml

[William Tell]

Just came out:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2014/roll507.xml
Thanks, Gowdy and Bachmann both voted no. So I guess the hawkish tea party wing is not unified around this.

[specsaregood]

I dun contacted mine and told him NO to this horseshit. But I expect the pussy ex football player to roll over and take it up the hind for the MIC anyways.

Just came out:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2014/roll507.xml

yup, just as I expected.

[milgram]

EDIT: rollcall link already posted

Here's a good page to bookmark though. It's the daily record of House votes and activities: http://clerk.house.gov/floorsummary/floor.aspx

[Brian4Liberty]

This is a good vote for evaluating House members.

Feel free to retweet:

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[HOLLYWOOD]

http://www.emannabih.com/files/2013/09/Obama-supports-AlQaeda.png

[devil21]

And the moment the vote to give more money and weapons to ISIS is done and the issues on the House floor turn to honoring Constitution Day and talking about veteran's issues, the entire chamber goes EMPTY.

That about sums up Congress.

[milgram]

Don't forget the YEARS and BILLIONS that were spent training the Iraqi army that can't even defend Iraq.

It's baffling to imagine that "training" much smaller forces at a much faster rate will create a much better opposition to ISIS.

[seyferjm]

My congress critter voted yes, ugh. Chabot, I am disappoint.

[devil21]

Anybody else watching Michele Bachmann spew her ISIS propaganda diatribe on the House floor right now?

WHAT A HORRIBLE HORRIBLE PERSON THAT WOMAN IS! Tying Constitution Day to attacking Syria! Whoever decided to give her a Paul delegate spot at the 2012 RNC should be ashamed.

I can't stand that woman.

[Danke]

Anybody else watching Michele Bachmann spew her ISIS propaganda diatribe on the House floor right now?

WHAT A HORRIBLE HORRIBLE PERSON THAT WOMAN IS! Tying Constitution Day to attacking Syria! Whoever decided to give her a Paul delegate spot at the 2012 RNC should be ashamed.

I can't stand that woman.

She was an attorney for the IRS to prosecute people who had the audacity to want to keep their own money from their labor.

[devil21]

She was an attorney for the IRS to prosecute people who had the audacity to want to keep their own money from their labor.

That was rich. So much bullshit coming out of her mouth.

Looks like she actually has a teleprompter to read her hate speech from. Is that common practice on the House floor?

[Brett85]

So I guess all the house members who voted to arm the Syrian rebels (ISIS) should be stripped of their citizenship under Ted Cruz's bill?

[Xenliad]

I'm surprised Bachmann voted no. I'm not surprised my local traitor voted yes.

[HOLLYWOOD]

She was an attorney for the IRS to prosecute people who had the audacity to want to keep their own money from their labor. AND... Michelle Bachmann when she was at the IRS, treated Americans like fucking trash. Plenty of people documented on her and corporate media ignored it in 2012. Bachmann is absolute scum, and let's not forget her other FEAR mongering PROPAGANDA about Iran.

She's an agent for Israel, not a representative of the people, so good riddance to her in January. We should have a poll when Bachmann gets her next $6-7 figure job of course inside the DC beltway. I say, since she's been auditioning to the Military-Security Industrial Complexes... look for a lobbyist Lockheed-Boeing-Northrup-Grumman-L3 or Warmongering CFR-CSIS-FPI-AEI-Brokkings-Atlantic Council-AIPAC-EMET-RJC-etc new hire.

[CPUd]

A bit more of the 'because Obama' GOP crowd voting Yes than expected.

Some of the reps voting Yes for this said they wouldn't vote for an AUMF.

Some who voted No said they did so because the amendment didn't do enough.