Militarization of local cops includes thousands of bayonets

[green73]

Through the 1033 program, the federal government has geared America's local police departments with military-grade equipment — ranging from airplanes to bayonets — worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

NPR combed through the transaction data for the program to find out where the equipment went and what kind of gear was involved. Since 2006, the Pentagon distributed more than 79,000 assault rifles, 205 grenade launchers, nearly 12,000 bayonets, nearly 4,000 combat knives, 50 airplanes, 479 bomb detonator robots, and much more to America's local cops.

cont.
http://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/6101895/charts-police-militarization-1033-program-obama-administration

[RJB]

Bayonets!?!?! WTF!?!? To be honest this is more troubling than armored cars. They can claim the vehicles are needed for defense, but the offensive nature of bayonets used in warfare inexcusable in a policing situation.

[tod evans]

Bayonets!?!?! WTF!?!? To be honest this is more troubling than armored cars. They can claim the vehicles are needed for defense, but the offensive nature of bayonets used in warfare inexcusable in a policing situation.

I've got a K-Bar from my service days and the thought of roided out kops on the streets with M-16's sporting K-Bar's is scary!

The vast majority of kops aren't qualified to handle BB guns responsibly let alone a weapon with powder and a knife...:eek:

[tangent4ronpaul]

Bayonets! - WTF???

I used to shave w/ a gerber, but this... NO!

-t

[jmdrake]

The really scary thing about this is that most of the military equipment is going to rural police forces where crime is low. What are they gearing up for? Who are they gearing up for?

[tod evans]

The really scary thing about this is that most of the military equipment is going to rural police forces where crime is low. What are they gearing up for? Who are they gearing up for?

My bet is once TSHTF and the cities crumble these weapons will be used in concentric circles to keep the inhabitants within their confines...

Many of us have been advising city dwellers to get out for years.....:o

[CaptUSA]

First, they hit the crowds with these: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?454334-Drones-Get-Pepper-Spray

Then, they follow up with the bayonets, probably hooked up to their tasers for extra fun.

What we all really need to be worried about is when they start stocking up on street cleaners to remove the mess. Then, you'll know it won't be long.

[tod evans]

First, they hit the crowds with these: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?454334-Drones-Get-Pepper-Spray

Then, they follow up with the bayonets, probably hooked up to their tasers for extra fun.

What we all really need to be worried about is when they start stocking up on street cleaners to remove the mess. Then, you'll know it won't be long.

3056

[Ronin Truth]

Never bring a knife to a gunfight. ;) :D

[FindLiberty]

http://www.balkanhistory.com/the_real_dracula_files/image002.gif

[Ronin Truth]

http://www.balkanhistory.com/the_real_dracula_files/image002.gif

It's Vlad the Impaler! :eek: Dinner is served.:D

[Origanalist]

I feel safer.

[tangent4ronpaul]

The really scary thing about this is that most of the military equipment is going to rural police forces where crime is low. What are they gearing up for? Who are they gearing up for?

ok, THAT IS SERIOUSLY SCARY...

-T

[Philhelm]

Bayonets will only work on slaves, not against people who have decided enough is enough.

[fisharmor]

Bayonets will only work on slaves, not against people who have decided enough is enough.

Since WWI bayonets have never been intended to "work" on opponents.
The primary purpose of them for the last 100 years has been in training soldiers to be merciless. Having recruits stab dummies as part of their training helps them to dehumanize their future opponent and steel their nerves for what they're about to undertake.

Or, at least that's the story for why they were still issued in WWI. 100 years later, with more advanced and reliable firearms, I can't imagine the bayonet has assumed a more prominent role, so I'm left with the assumption that they'll be used in some sort of fidelity training.

[navy-vet]

I've got a K-Bar from my service days and the thought of roided out kops on the streets with M-16's sporting K-Bar's is scary!

The vast majority of kops aren't qualified to handle BB guns responsibly let alone a weapon with powder and a knife...:eek:
I love my K-bar, always have. Whenever in the woods it's always on me. Best blade they ever made IMO. Gives me the creeps thinking about getting stuck with it though ughhh Didn't know it could be used as a bayonet.

[navy-vet]

Perhaps my Ka-bar, is different than the bayonet type some posters here seem to be referring to. Mine is of Nam vintage, Camillus Cutery, issued as a USMC utility and fighting knife. It has a full tang which is something I prefer in a blade for it's strength and weight, grade a 1095 chrome-vanadium steel, a durable stacked leather washer handle, and a heavy duty leather snap holster with thigh strap. There is no lug for mounting to a rifle.
Interestingly, the knife was first introduced in 1942 and the name Ka-Bar is according to factory lore, "Kill-a-bear".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka-Bar

[Uriel999]

bayonets are used to finish off the enemy laying on the ground wounded.

[navy-vet]

bayonets are used to finish off the enemy laying on the ground wounded.
and training...
http://www.stripes.com/blogs/the-rumor-doctor/the-rumor-doctor-1.104348/has-the-army-eliminated-bayonet-training-1.137356

[navy-vet]

oops, sorry green, didn't mean to steal your thread here.

[XNavyNuke]

Though this would normally go in the Liberty History section, we are coming up on the anniversary of the Battle of Paoli, Sept 20 1777. A successful all-bayonet ambush by the British on colonial forces.

http://totallyhistory.com/battle-of-paoli/


. The British Ambush
Meanwhile, Major General Grey took steps not to alert the Americans and removed the flints from his men’s muskets. The British forced a local blacksmith to act as a guide and launched a surprise attack on Wayne’s camp. They stormed in and with extremely light casualties of four dead and seven wounded, routed an entire American division leaving American casualties numbering 272 men killed, wounded, or missing. Seventy-one prisoners were taken, but forty of them were so badly wounded they were left in nearby houses.

XNN

[Brian4Liberty]

Bayonets!?!?! WTF!?!? To be honest this is more troubling than armored cars. They can claim the vehicles are needed for defense, but the offensive nature of bayonets used in warfare inexcusable in a policing situation.

They will work wonders when herding or scattering the nonviolent protesters.

[Mach]

It's not the weapons that are the threat, it is the training (brainwashing) and militarization of their brains.... weapons don't kill people, people kill people.

[devil21]

3056

Is it just me or does the third dude from the left look like Ron?

eta: Edward G. Robinson



It's not the weapons that are the threat, it is the training (brainwashing) and militarization of their brains.... weapons don't kill people, people kill people.

Truth.

[PaulConventionWV]

bayonets are used to finish off the enemy laying on the ground wounded.

Or in clashes of enemy lines. Riot control lines, perhaps?

[idiom]

What short memories we have...

http://x3.fjcdn.com/comments/remind+me+again...what+would+happen+if+%C2%B4meric a+would+not+went+_dfbc60f797317607676598044a00efa7 .jpg

[navy-vet]

Here's an interesting tidbit about the use of the bayonet by troops whose ancestors stuck a bunch of ours.
The U.S. Marine Corps still trains riflemen on how to use the bayonet, as does Britain. In fact, British troops were the last troops to actually use a bayonet charge in combat. This happened in 2004, when a patrol of 20 British troops in Basra, Iraq were ambushed by about a hundred Iraqi Shia militiamen. Help was still on the way when the commander of the British troops realized they were running out of ammo and the Iraqi gunmen were moving closer. So he ordered his troops to fix bayonets and charge. That thoroughly demoralized the Iraqis who, after some close combat with the British (Scots, actually) left 35 of them dead, all ran away. Some of the British troops were wounded but all survived. This, however, was one of the very few such incidents of bayonet use in the last decade. The problem is that Western troops tend to be well trained marksmen and Iraq or Afghan gunmen have learned not to get too close. So opportunities for launching a bayonet charge are increasingly rare.

https://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/The-Spirit-Of-The-Bayonet-Lives-On-4-8-2013.asp

[CaptUSA]

The problem is that Western troops tend to be well trained marksmen and Iraq or Afghan gunmen have learned not to get too close. So opportunities for launching a bayonet charge are increasingly rare.



Sounds like quite a problem. Oh well, that will be solved when police are using them on civilians - we haven't learned those lessons. Yet.

[navy-vet]

Here's an interesting tidbit about the use of the bayonet by troops whose ancestors stuck a bunch of ours.
The U.S. Marine Corps still trains riflemen on how to use the bayonet, as does Britain. In fact, British troops were the last troops to actually use a bayonet charge in combat. This happened in 2004, when a patrol of 20 British troops in Basra, Iraq were ambushed by about a hundred Iraqi Shia militiamen. Help was still on the way when the commander of the British troops realized they were running out of ammo and the Iraqi gunmen were moving closer. So he ordered his troops to fix bayonets and charge. That thoroughly demoralized the Iraqis who, after some close combat with the British (Scots, actually) left 35 of them dead, all ran away. Some of the British troops were wounded but all survived. This, however, was one of the very few such incidents of bayonet use in the last decade. The problem is that Western troops tend to be well trained marksmen and Iraq or Afghan gunmen have learned not to get too close. So opportunities for launching a bayonet charge are increasingly rare.

https://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/The-Spirit-Of-The-Bayonet-Lives-On-4-8-2013.asp

And if you read the article the use of the bayonet in civilian authority is clear:
But why do infantry continue to carry a bayonet? To a certain extent carrying a bayonet is tradition, even in the army. But there are practical reasons as well. A lot of time is spent out in the field and a knife is useful for cutting stuff. But perhaps the most effective military use is intimidation during efforts to calm down rioting civilians. This is nothing new, the fearsome effect of a bunch of guys advancing with bayonets on the end of their rifles has been known for centuries. It's also a morale boost for the lads using the bayonets. When you hear the order "fix bayonets" (put them on the end of your rifle) you feel that it is do-or-die time, even if it isn’t. Unfortunately that order is rarely given anymore. In the army the troops prefer to carry a hunting knife or multitool and most units never let the bayonets leave the arms room.
The most common "combat" use of bayonets is for crowd control. In fact, this is about the only "bayonet training" most troops get anymore. The bayonet is used somewhat differently in these situations. For one thing, the troops don't just rush at the crowd carrying their bayonet tipped rifles. They march forward, neatly lined up, with the rifles held so that the crowd sees a line of bayonets coming at them. The troops do this while marching in step and are trained to bring their right feet down as heavily as possible. The sight of the advancing troops, the bayonets, and the rhythmic thud of boots striking the ground usually causes the crowd to scatter.

[navy-vet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ganGFBeuE8

[FindLiberty]

From some future tyrant's bible...

SOP for Dispersing Protesters: "cut 'em if they stand, shoot 'em if they run"

I hope that never happens (again?) in America!

[FindLiberty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ganGFBeuE8

Thanks, that's a great presentation - posted on YouTube today 9-9-2014 !!!

Senator Rand Paul Wants To Know "Why Are BAYONETS Being Distributed To Local Police Departments?!

[navy-vet]

Thanks, that's a great presentation - posted on YouTube today 9-9-2014 !!!

Senator Rand Paul Wants To Know "Why Are BAYONETS Being Distributed To Local Police Departments?!

:) yw

[GunnyFreedom]

Since WWI bayonets have never been intended to "work" on opponents.
The primary purpose of them for the last 100 years has been in training soldiers to be merciless. Having recruits stab dummies as part of their training helps them to dehumanize their future opponent and steel their nerves for what they're about to undertake.

Or, at least that's the story for why they were still issued in WWI. 100 years later, with more advanced and reliable firearms, I can't imagine the bayonet has assumed a more prominent role, so I'm left with the assumption that they'll be used in some sort of fidelity training.

Bayonets mean less on an M-4, but on a full size rifle it makes for an extremely effective melee weapon. Especially if the rifle is heavy and sturdy. Just because there hasn't been much melee fighting in war lately, doesn't mean there won't be at some point in the future.

[GunnyFreedom]

Perhaps my Ka-bar, is different than the bayonet type some posters here seem to be referring to. Mine is of Nam vintage, Camillus Cutery, issued as a USMC utility and fighting knife. It has a full tang which is something I prefer in a blade for it's strength and weight, grade a 1095 chrome-vanadiumsteel, a durable stacked leather washer handle, and a heavy duty leather snap holster with thigh strap. There is no lug for mounting to a rifle.
Interestingly, the knife was first introduced in 1942 and the name Ka-Bar is according to factory lore, "Kill-a-bear".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka-Bar

No, you are right. The bayonet and the Ka-Bar are two different knives. The OKC-3S is a lot more 'bayonet-shaped' than the Ka-Bar.

http://reho.st/http://img.bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/data/10044/upfile/200911/20091121221612.jpg

[GunnyFreedom]

Here's an interesting tidbit about the use of the bayonet by troops whose ancestors stuck a bunch of ours.
The U.S. Marine Corps still trains riflemen on how to use the bayonet, as does Britain. In fact, British troops were the last troops to actually use a bayonet charge in combat. This happened in 2004, when a patrol of 20 British troops in Basra, Iraq were ambushed by about a hundred Iraqi Shia militiamen. Help was still on the way when the commander of the British troops realized they were running out of ammo and the Iraqi gunmen were moving closer. So he ordered his troops to fix bayonets and charge. That thoroughly demoralized the Iraqis who, after some close combat with the British (Scots, actually) left 35 of them dead, all ran away. Some of the British troops were wounded but all survived. This, however, was one of the very few such incidents of bayonet use in the last decade. The problem is that Western troops tend to be well trained marksmen and Iraq or Afghan gunmen have learned not to get too close. So opportunities for launching a bayonet charge are increasingly rare.

https://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/The-Spirit-Of-The-Bayonet-Lives-On-4-8-2013.asp

20 vs 100; 35 of the 100 dead and the rest retreat. 20 injured but alive. A properly bayonetted rifle, is one hell of a melee weapon. Frankly if I were using my rifle for home defense, I would keep the bayonet fixed. :)

[Mani]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNhYJgDdCu4

[navy-vet]

20 vs 100; 35 of the 100 dead and the rest retreat. 20 injured but alive. A properly bayonetted rifle, is one hell of a melee weapon. Frankly if I were using my rifle for home defense, I would keep the bayonet fixed. :)
hear hear....me too Gunny

[XNavyNuke]

20 vs 100; 35 of the 100 dead and the rest retreat. 20 injured but alive. A properly bayonetted rifle, is one hell of a melee weapon. Frankly if I were using my rifle for home defense, I would keep the bayonet fixed. :)

You will probably like the full story Gunny.

Bad Ass of the Week: Brian Wood (http://badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?id=905475926435)


On May 14, 2004, roughly three hundred years after the concept of the bayonet was actually a viable option for winning battles, Lance Corporal Brian Wood tried to save his convoy and his comrades by ordering six pissed-off British soldiers to launch a fucking bayonet charge across 200 yards of open ground towards a numerically superior force of hardened Iraqi troops who were firing AK-47 assault rifles at him from well-prepared elevated positions. - See more at: http://badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?id=905475926435#sthash.LO0gN8HC.dpuf

XNN

[GunnyFreedom]

Damn. They crawled out of worse than I though. And a Lance freakin Corporal no less. That'll be one of the fastest Sergeants most of his comrades will remember.

The 30mm I didn't know about, and I am sure that helped.

But it's absolutely true, in close-in melee, a bayonetted rifle in the hands of a well trained warrior will have an extreme advantage over pretty much anything but another well-trained bayonet warrior.

Melee is in some way a lot like the video games. The secret is to get in close, right now, and strike first. By being hyper-aggressive a lot of the time your enemies will freeze up or flee. A few dead in a few seconds and the inertia of the fight lands on everyone. Bayonet killing is horrific and barbaric and much more brutal and gory than a bullet. Real shock-trauma is inflicted on witnesses, who if they have NOT been trained in melee will dramatically lose effectiveness, but if they HAVE been trained in melee, it may steel their resolve.

Just put yourself in their shoes for a minute, a ragtag barely organized militia; maybe fought in many battles and will brave the whine and pop of bullets because death comes when it may. Now one of your finer battles is destined for victory and a handful of crazy motherfkers run out screaming with bayonets and just bounce right into the middle of your position and just start killing people screaming bloody murder.

frozen in panic for a second you lift your rifle to shoot someone and instantly WHACK your jaw is broken by a butt stroke you didn't see coming and just before you black out you feel hot steel slicing your neck open to the backbone and the world goes away. Some guy 5' away raises his rifle and gets shot down. Those crazy fkers still have bullets and they did this!

Time to go...

So I take a little exception to the idea that bayonet training is only for indoctrination. Melee may be rare in modern war, but it is not nonexistent. Yes, it's psychological use for crowd control is pure evil. But nobody knows if the next war will be more melee or not. It is better to be ready for whatever, and if the day comes that it's needed, pour in like a breaking dam and never look back. It works.

[navy-vet]

Damn. They crawled out of worse than I though. And a Lance freakin Corporal no less. That'll be one of the fastest Sergeants most of his comrades will remember.

The 30mm I didn't know about, and I am sure that helped.

But it's absolutely true, in close-in melee, a bayonetted rifle in the hands of a well trained warrior will have an extreme advantage over pretty much anything but another well-trained bayonet warrior.

Melee is in some way a lot like the video games. The secret is to get in close, right now, and strike first. By being hyper-aggressive a lot of the time your enemies will freeze up or flee. A few dead in a few seconds and the inertia of the fight lands on everyone. Bayonet killing is horrific and barbaric and much more brutal and gory than a bullet. Real shock-trauma is inflicted on witnesses, who if they have NOT been trained in melee will dramatically lose effectiveness, but if they HAVE been trained in melee, it may steel their resolve.

Just put yourself in their shoes for a minute, a ragtag barely organized militia; maybe fought in many battles and will brave the whine and pop of bullets because death comes when it may. Now one of your finer battles is destined for victory and a handful of crazy motherfkers run out screaming with bayonets and just bounce right into the middle of your position and just start killing people screaming bloody murder.

frozen in panic for a second you lift your rifle to shoot someone and instantly WHACK your jaw is broken by a butt stroke you didn't see coming and just before you black out you feel hot steel slicing your neck open to the backbone and the world goes away. Some guy 5' away raises his rifle and gets shot down. Those crazy fkers still have bullets and they did this!

Time to go...

So I take a little exception to the idea that bayonet training is only for indoctrination. Melee may be rare in modern war, but it is not nonexistent. Yes, it's psychological use for crowd control is pure evil. But nobody knows if the next war will be more melee or not. It is better to be ready for whatever, and if the day comes that it's needed, pour in like a breaking dam and never look back. It works.
That's a pretty chilling description there Gunny. I could almost visualize it. Think I'd prefer the position of a spotter or other distant participant, were I forced into a combat role...

[navy-vet]

of course, were I a younger man...

[GunnyFreedom]

of course, were I a younger man...

Oh, I need to be a lot younger myself, but I have decided that it is time, I am late, and I have to get back in shape. As for this kind of thing, "pugil sticks" were actually designed to simulate bayonet melee. Get a pair of these, get a bunch of friends, protective gear, start gently, and have fun. :) Surprisingly, you do not have to be the biggest, strongest, fastest to tear up bayonet melee, you just have to be single-minded and predator smart.

http://reho.st/http://www.kingrichardco.com/PugilStick/2000pugilwithprotectiveglove.jpg