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Anti Federalist
09-04-2014, 09:50 AM
And it's not just your car, it's all your "smart" devices, from "smart" meters to "smart" refrigerators...all networking together to create a web of total and absolute surveillance of every single thing you do.

Freedom.

Liberty.

'MuriKa.


Your Car Isn’t

by eric • September 4, 2014

http://ericpetersautos.com/2014/09/04/car-isnt/

You paid for it – possibly making payments on it for years. It’s your car now . . . right?

Maybe.

But the data it contains effectively belongs to someone else.

Don’t believe me? Then take a look at your owner’s manual – if you own (well, think you own) a new car.

On page 34 of the (cough) owner’s manual for the 2014 Mercedes Benz E-Class wagon I recently reviewed, there is a section devoted to Information about electronic data acquisition in the vehicle. This refers to the Event Data Recorders – aka “black boxes” – that all new cars come equipped with now – by law. These EDRs store information about your driving, such as vehicle speed, “g” forces during deceleration and cornering, whether you are “buckled up for safety” - and so on.

http://ericpetersautos.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/EDR-3-300x225.jpg

The information is not merely stored, either. It can (and will be) be retrieved – and not by you.

Without your consent.

And very possibly, without your even knowing about it.

The MB manual admits this, openly.

“Please note that your vehicle is equipped with devices that can record vehicle systems data . . . Daimler AG can access these data and submit them.”

Italics added.

How is the data “accessed”? Via the same technology your car gets real-time weather updates, stock quotes and e-mail. If your car is equipped (as almost all new cars are equipped) with send and receive data transmission capability then data about your speed, how “aggressively” you accelerate (or brake) and whether you are wearing a seat belt can also be sent and received.

This data “is transmitted in the event of an accident”. Emphasis on “is.” Not might be transmitted. But is transmitted. Whether you agree or not. Hell, you’re not even asked.

It’s not new, either.

GM has been fitting cars with its OnStar system since the ’90s – decades before the gunvernment got around to issuing a fatwa that every new car will have them, period. And the data is not transmitted “in the event of an accident” only.

Big Brother is watching – I assure you.

About eight years ago, I was testing a then-new Cadillac. One day, as I was driving it with enthusiasm up a mountain road, the Van Halen I was listening to abruptly cut out and was replaced by a strange woman’s voice urgently inquiring whether I needed EMS. It was the helpful OnStar operator. Who had been sicced on me via OnStar, because OnStar deemed my “g” forces during cornering excessive. Mind, I did not push the little OnStar button (because I hadn’t wrecked and did not need EMS). Rather, OnStar did not like the way I was driving – and on its own initiative, contacted the OnStar authorities.

Who – at that time – did not actually have any authority to do anything about my “excessive” speed/lateral “g” forces during cornering. But that is going to change now that Event Data Recorders with send and receive capability are required by law.

Why do you suppose the gunvernment issued a decree requiring that all new cars have these send and receive-capable black boxes? Do you suppose it is a coincidence that the insurance mafia – the “private” half of the gunvernment-corporate conglomerate - has been pushing hard for in-car monitoring capability?

Again, from the pages of the MB owner’s manual:

“Daimler AG can access these data and submit them … for safety research or vehicle diagnosis purposes … on the instruction of prosecuting authorities… (and) as otherwise permitted by law.”

Italics added.

That is, whenever the gunvernment (and don’t doubt it for a moment, the insurance mafia) decides to “access” these (not your) data.

Which they’ll just go ahead and do whenever they please.

It is entirely possible they are already doing it.

Bear in mind that the gunvernment openly – contemptuously – violates our formerly private correspondence with impunity, “accesses” whatever “data” it wishes to regarding our financial activities and many other activities besides. And the insurance mafia is now doing precisely the same thing – with the help of the gunvernment. Examples include anytime-they-like access to your DMV records (the car insurance mafia) and now, access to your medical records (the health insurance mafia). There is too much money – and too much control – at stake. They want it all – and are playing for keeps.

Real-time (as you drive) monitoring (and control) is going to be a fact of life within five years. Perhaps sooner. And once it is a fact of life, the next step will be a declaration that cars without the built-in capability to narc out their (ahem) “owners” are “not safe” and will, accordingly, no longer be allowed to operate on the public (that is, gunvernment) roads. They will either have to be retrofitted with the technology or become so many thousand of pounds of useless metal and plastic.monitoring pic

I’ve been a car journalist for more than 20 years – and I have had a ringside seat as these bits and pieces have come into focus – and are now coming together.

I am thankful that I at least got to enjoy the tail end of automotive freedom – when a car represented liberation, you and the open road. Go where you like, how and when you like. Leave it all behind.

Tomorrow, someone else will be along for the ride.

(Someone else monitoring you for compliance and ready to turn you in at the drop of an electronic hat. - AF)

What was it the late, great Robin Williams said in the film, Dead Poets Society?

Gather ye rosebuds while ye may…

Indeed.

Better hurry.

Throw it in the Woods.

69360
09-04-2014, 10:37 AM
Yes they are required by law to be installed in new car. But it is not illegal to disable or remove them. Well yet anyway.

heavenlyboy34
09-04-2014, 10:45 AM
This thread makes me feel free. 'Murica, fuck yeah.

helmuth_hubener
09-04-2014, 11:16 AM
This is a very addressable problem. 69630 has the right idea.

phill4paul
09-04-2014, 11:23 AM
eric is lucky the OnStar contacted him. He might have not survived to write this article. The fact that he did just proves that OnStar is a life saving device and, as such, should be mandated. No system, no matter how invasive or onerous, should be shunned if it saves just one life. Surely no one, in their right mind, is against the saving of lives.

DamianTV
09-04-2014, 11:39 AM
If cars were made from wood, I'd say throw it in the woods. But in this case, cars are metallic, and metal typically comes from Mines. Send this fucker back to the pits of hell where it belongs.

Philhelm
09-04-2014, 01:29 PM
Well, it isn't tyrannical since if you don't want to be monitored, nobody is forcing you to own and drive a car.

presence
09-04-2014, 01:34 PM
5th amendment violation


This data “is transmitted in the event of an accident”. Emphasis on “is.” Not might be transmitted. But is transmitted. Whether you agree or not. Hell, you’re not even asked.

Brian4Liberty
09-04-2014, 01:36 PM
eric is lucky the OnStar contacted him. He might have not survived to write this article. The fact that he did just proves that OnStar is a life saving device and, as such, should be mandated. No system, no matter how invasive or onerous, should be shunned if it saves just one life. Surely no one, in their right mind, is against the saving of lives.

It's for the children!!!

phill4paul
09-04-2014, 01:38 PM
Well, it isn't tyrannical since if you don't want to be monitored, nobody is forcing you to own and drive a car.

I've been threatening to get a horse and buggy or a farm tractor to just impede smart car owners. If bicyclists give them conniptions could you imagine what a horse and buggy could do?

Philhelm
09-04-2014, 01:41 PM
I've been threatening to get a horse and buggy or a farm tractor to just impede smart car owners. If bicyclists give them conniptions could you imagine what a horse and buggy could do?

Hmmmm...perhaps a Tortoise Chariot would serve you better. The tortoises would likely live longer than you, so you'd get your money's worth.

staerker
09-04-2014, 01:45 PM
5th amendment violation

I wonder if it transmits the data when a cop shoots at you while you're driving.

phill4paul
09-04-2014, 01:50 PM
Hmmmm...perhaps a Tortoise Chariot would serve you better. The tortoises would likely live longer than you, so you'd get your money's worth.

Might not get me many jobs. I'd hate to tell a customer there was a two month wait when they lived two houses down the road. But just think about being able to pass them on to future generations!

Philhelm
09-04-2014, 02:03 PM
Might not get me many jobs. I'd hate to tell a customer there was a two month wait when they lived two houses down the road. But just think about being able to pass them on to future generations!

Well, the smart car owners would go nuclear when facing the glorious tortoise chariot. That was your goal, right?

phill4paul
09-04-2014, 02:07 PM
Well, the smart car owners would go nuclear when facing the glorious tortoise chariot. That was your goal, right?

Well, the actual goal was the least government/corporate/fascist intrusion. I've heard the government doesn't cotton to Tortoise exploitation.

phill4paul
09-04-2014, 02:13 PM
Well, the actual goal was the least government/corporate/fascist intrusion. I've heard the government doesn't cotton to Tortoise exploitation.

Which kinda leads in to another point. If bicyclists can hold up traffic then why cant a person pick up a rickshaw and traipse down the street? Bikers have slowed me down to less than 5 miles an hour on uphill back roads. Is less than 5 miles an hour acceptable when footspeed is just as quick? And damned it why can't I pass on a double yellow when I can safely pass? Bah, I think I just might get a horse and a buggy.

heavenlyboy34
09-04-2014, 02:19 PM
Which kinda leads in to another point. If bicyclists can hold up traffic then why cant a person pick up a rickshaw and traipse down the street? Bikers have slowed me down to less than 5 miles an hour on uphill back roads. Is less than 5 miles an hour acceptable when footspeed is just as quick? And damned it why can't I pass on a double yellow when I can safely pass? Bah, I think I just might get a horse and a buggy.

You don't appreciate what your benevolent overlords have done for your roadz? Reported.

phill4paul
09-04-2014, 03:26 PM
You don't appreciate what your benevolent overlords have done for your roadz? Reported.

Damnit. I'm going to have to actualize the cost of horse and buggy vs. auto now. I'll be damned if I'm not kinda excited about the construct of a custom carpenters/handyman buggy. It would be a marketing boon. Has my wheels turning. Cost of horse and buggy vs. auto. All my jobs are within 50 miles. Beyond that I charge upkeep to stay.

Anti Federalist
09-04-2014, 03:38 PM
Yes they are required by law to be installed in new car. But it is not illegal to disable or remove them. Well yet anyway.

I know of no way in which you could disable the EDR without rendering the car inoperable or at the very least un-inspectable and voiding the warranty.

But I know you work on cars for a living, and I'm just a shade tree tinkerer.

How could you disable or remove the EDR without setting off a millions alarms or shutting down the ECM altogether?

Uriel999
09-04-2014, 03:39 PM
screw it, I will buy an old car then.

phill4paul
09-04-2014, 03:44 PM
I know of no way in which you could disable the EDR without rendering the car inoperable or at the very least un-inspectable and voiding the warranty.

But I know you work on cars for a living, and I'm just a shade tree tinkerer.

How could you disable or remove the EDR without setting off a millions alarms or shitting down the ECM altogether?

I call for a new thread by 69360 imparting this wisdom. I'd like to know myself! I'm lead to believe that a major part of the computer technology is located in the radio now. Specifically with my GM. I was told that I couldn't just rip out my GM radio and replace it with a new off market one. That it would cause a shut down of the vehicle to just yank it. Dunno. Haven't tried. Just a shade tree mech myself.

Anti Federalist
09-04-2014, 03:45 PM
Yes they are required by law to be installed in new car. But it is not illegal to disable or remove them. Well yet anyway.

Since 1972, manufacturers, distributors, dealers and motor vehicle repair businesses have been prohibited from knowingly "making inoperative" any part of a device or element of design that has been installed on or in a motor vehicle in compliance with a Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS)

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/adaptive/inoper/Fre_ask_ques.htm

Anti Federalist
09-04-2014, 03:48 PM
I call for a new thread by 69360 imparting this wisdom. I'd like to know myself! I'm lead to believe that a major part of the computer technology is located in the radio now. Specifically with my GM. I was told that I couldn't just rip out my GM radio and replace it with a new off market one. That it would cause a shut down of the vehicle to just yank it. Dunno. Haven't tried. Just a shade tree mech myself.

Government Motors cars are especially bad for this, they have everything tied in to proprietary in car networking, so that removal, failure or disabling of any one of the subsystems causes everything to shut down.

It won't be long before cars are locked down like iPhones, and you won't be able to do anything to them.

That said, if we're missing something, or have it all wrong, I'd love to know as well.

phill4paul
09-04-2014, 03:55 PM
Government Motors cars are especially bad for this, they have everything tied in to proprietary in car networking, so that removal, failure or disabling of any one of the subsystems causes everything to shut down.

So appropriate.....

http://www.autopartsdb.net/assets/images/ProductImg/r/rw59_on_white.jpg

69360
09-04-2014, 04:22 PM
No, dealers and shops can not remove or disable them. But owners can legally.

Anything up to 08ish it's simple. Unplug the offending air bag or abs module that records data and take the bulb out of the cluster. I've done it many time for many people. In a private citizen capacity of course, not as a for profit business.

Newer cars are more CAN bus and more complicated. Usually you need a laptop and a cable to reflash. If it hasn't already been figured out, you'll need to reverse engineer the software. It's not as hard as is seems. Pretty much every module in the car is looking for every other module, so when one is missing it sets a code. You just disable that code.

Anti Federalist
09-04-2014, 04:30 PM
No, dealers and shops can not remove or disable them. But owners can legally.

Anything up to 08ish it's simple. Unplug the offending air bag or abs module that records data and take the bulb out of the cluster. I've done it many time for many people. In a private citizen capacity of course, not as a for profit business.

Newer cars are more CAN bus and more complicated. Usually you need a laptop and a cable to reflash. If it hasn't already been figured out, you'll need to reverse engineer the software. It's not as hard as is seems. Pretty much every module in the car is looking for every other module, so when one is missing it sets a code. You just disable that code.

OK, yeah, I've done this, and also spoofed them by inserting homemade "dead plugs" (that's what I call them anyway) where a simple circuit replaces the sensor and gives a steady "mid-range" response.

Re-flashing ECMs are a little trickier, I have a program to do that, but have only used it a couple of times.

Certainly any wireless system is going to ping back that you've been fucking with it, with all the ramifications that means.

DamianTV
09-04-2014, 04:55 PM
Just wait till cars come with DRM. Can only change the oil at GM or licensed shops. No more fix it yourself, or getting your car fixed, period.

HVACTech
09-04-2014, 05:45 PM
No, dealers and shops can not remove or disable them. But owners can legally.

translation, they cannot bill you for that. I am thinking a better route to go... would be the disabling the transmitter. I wonder what they talk to? cell phone towers makes the most sense.
that would not stop the data from being stored, but it would keep most stuff working and stop your truck from telling on you.
as I would consider this a form of peaceful civil disobedience. I am interested.
I also like ideas about how to confuse license plate scanners.
Arkansas seems to have a single thread running right down the middle of the plate. my bet is, it contains the information.
I wonder if I could overlay and tell them that I am batman? from Gotham city?

:D

heavenlyboy34
09-04-2014, 06:20 PM
Just wait till cars come with DRM. Can only change the oil at GM or licensed shops. No more fix it yourself, or getting your car fixed, period.

'Murica gets a little more Sovietized every day or so, it seems. :(

helmuth_hubener
09-04-2014, 06:31 PM
It won't be long before cars are locked down like iPhones, and you won't be able to do anything to them. For those with the knowledge, you can always do anything with them. For iPhones, since you brought them up, it's called jailbreaking. It's wonderful. It's gotten easier and easier and better and better as the years have gone on.

I am obviously not for this junk being added to cars. It's tyrannical and infuriating. But it is, happily, possible to disable it. And, since there are hundreds of millions of old pre-regulation cars on the road right now, it's essentially impossible that any enforcement regime will be coming that you cannot simply skirt and ignore.

You bring up that it is illegal for shops to do it. Uh huh, and how often do the mechanic police come by again? Back in the 1970s when the DC swamplords had the brainblast to force the "ignition interlock" system down everyone's throat -- wherein the car would not start unless the seatbelt was buckled -- and just forcing the driver wasn't enough, there was also the horrible pressure-sensitive passenger seat system, which made it impossible to do evil things like, oh, put groceries in the front seat -- back then what happened? Everyone had their mechanics disable them (or did it themselves). It did not matter that it was illegal to do so. That is what they did. I know of no mechanics who went to prison for breaking this law, despite the fact that all of them broke it (exaggeration). I think this is exactly parallel. The dealership might balk. Any independent shop, though, will do it for you.

The final point you brought up was inspections. I think this is the strongest point. I do not think I have ever had a car inspection, never living in such a place requiring them, or, well, at least never getting them, put it that way. So I don't really know how they work. But I could see it being a big problem (though if one knows how to disable the code and all that like 69360, it should glide right through with no one having any idea the system's disabled). So, here is a case where one needs to learn how to use some basic jurisdictional arbitrage. License your car in some other state. Companies do it all the time with their fleet vehicles. It's perfectly legal. Choose a state with no inspection requirement and, might I recommend as well, a low license plate fee.

osan
09-04-2014, 07:04 PM
5th amendment violation

As if that matters anymore.

osan
09-04-2014, 07:06 PM
I wonder if it transmits the data when a cop shoots at you while you're driving.

No, it mysteriously malfunctions at precisely that time, every time.

Nothing to see here. Move along now, 'fore I thump you real good, prole.

osan
09-04-2014, 07:08 PM
Well, the actual goal was the least government/corporate/fascist intrusion. I've heard the government doesn't cotton to Tortoise exploitation.

Got you coming and going.

osan
09-04-2014, 07:21 PM
translation, they cannot bill you for that. I am thinking a better route to go... would be the disabling the transmitter. I wonder what they talk to? cell phone towers makes the most sense.
that would not stop the data from being stored, but it would keep most stuff working and stop your truck from telling on you.
as I would consider this a form of peaceful civil disobedience. I am interested.
I also like ideas about how to confuse license plate scanners.
Arkansas seems to have a single thread running right down the middle of the plate. my bet is, it contains the information.
I wonder if I could overlay and tell them that I am batman? from Gotham city?

:D

I'm wondering whether those computers have the equivalent of /dev/null (bit-bucket) or if one can concoct one and send all data to it, or just rewrite the code to write all data to the same 10 bytes of memory. :)

Michael Landon
09-04-2014, 07:37 PM
That's why I bought a 73 Ford Truck.... no box and no electrical except the battery, starter, lights and radio.

- ML

Slave Mentality
09-04-2014, 08:43 PM
In for more details on the turtle chariot. I have a car with no bs and intend on keeping it that way. Friggin idiots clamor for their tech packages. I don't take a phone on my spirited drives. Get it while the getting is good indeed. Such is life.

fr33
09-04-2014, 10:19 PM
I've been threatening to get a horse and buggy or a farm tractor to just impede smart car owners. If bicyclists give them conniptions could you imagine what a horse and buggy could do?

A couple near me have 2 horse drawn buggies. His and hers. The husband survived cancer but I'm pretty sure he's gonna get killed on that thing when someone comes from behind over a hill.

Mani
09-05-2014, 02:26 AM
Damnit. I'm going to have to actualize the cost of horse and buggy vs. auto now. I'll be damned if I'm not kinda excited about the construct of a custom carpenters/handyman buggy. It would be a marketing boon. Has my wheels turning. Cost of horse and buggy vs. auto. All my jobs are within 50 miles. Beyond that I charge upkeep to stay.


Maybe the Amish were onto something...