Rachel Maddow Show Covers Jesse Benton Scandal

[helmuth_hubener]

Rachel Maddow's show on MSNBC did a segment on Jesse Benton's unethical bribery, corruption, and dishonesty. Here it is:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO0Pgpx_Sms

May this be a lesson to us all: pick your associates wisely. More wisely than Ron Paul.

And no exceptions for family.

[helmuth_hubener]

Recently, there have been inaccurate press accounts and unsubstantiated media rumors about me and my role in past campaigns that are politically motivated, unfair and, most importantly, untrue. Liar. Everything in the Rachel Maddow report was true, as far as I can tell. If there was really something untrue, he could simply tell us what was untrue. "It's more complicated than that." Exactly, Jesse, because the reports are true -- though obviously they do not have all the details to which you are privy -- and you are an unethical, dishonest man.


I hope those who know me recognize that I strive to be a man of integrity. I do not know you and cannot say one way or another what you may "strive" for. If you are, in fact, striving to be a man of integrity, obviously your strivings are very inadequate. Keep fighting those demons, Jesse, but as for now and even more so in 2012, the demons are winning.


The press accounts and rumors are particularly hurtful because they are false. What exactly is false about them?

Crickets.

Lies, lies, lies, lies, lies.

[CPUd]

http://i.imgur.com/HKZLX2Y.jpg

[Galileo Galilei]

There was no "bribery". It is not illegal for campaigns to hire people for services.

[helmuth_hubener]

There was no "bribery". It is not illegal for campaigns to hire people for services.

Is it illegal for campaigns to bribe people, then?

Could you give us a definition of bribery?

[phill4paul]

Is it illegal for campaigns to bribe people, then?

Could you give us a definition of bribery?

Allow me....


BRIBERY

DEFINITION

Corrupt solicitation, acceptance, or transfer of value in exchange for official action.

OVERVIEW

Bribery refers to the offering, giving, soliciting, or receiving of any item of value as a means of influencing the actions of an individual holding a public or legal duty. This type of action results in matters that should be handled objectively being handled in a manner best suiting the private interests of the decision maker. Bribery constitutes a crime and both the offeror and the recipient can be criminally charged.

Proof of bribery requires demonstrating a “quid pro quo” relationship in which the recipient directly alters behavior in exchange for the gift. Because the relationship does not occur directly enough, campaign donations from corporations or individuals to political candidates do not constitute bribery. Another element of proving bribery includes proving intent to influence the discharging of another’s official duties. Some statutes also require proof that both parties understand and agree to the arrangement. Attempts to bribe exist at common law and under the Model Penal Code, and often, the punishment for attempted bribery and completed bribery are identical. Solicitation of a bribe also constitutes a crime and is completed regardless of whether the solicitation results in the receipt of a valuable gift. Economists consider bribery to negatively impact economic growth because it encouraged rent seeking behavior. Rent seeking behavior refers to an individual’s or corporation’s attempt to illicitly influence the open market in order to provide that individual or corporation with a disproportionate amount of wealth. Such an environment results in a sub-optimal allocation of resources, which results in depressed economic growth.

I'll add again, that in bold.

Proof of bribery requires demonstrating a “quid pro quo” relationship in which the recipient directly alters behavior in exchange for the gift.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/bribery

[cajuncocoa]

There was no "bribery". It is not illegal for campaigns to hire people for services.
You're really Matt Collins, aren't you?

[idiom]

$73,000 of donated money no less.

$73,000 out of some serious Moneybomb that people bled to put together.

Go directly to jail. Do NOT collect $200,000.

[Natural Citizen]

I hate PAC's.

[phill4paul]

$73,000 of donated money no less.

$73,000 out of some serious Moneybomb that people bled to put together.

Go directly to jail. Do NOT collect $200,000.

I don't pay Federal income tax because I do not believe in the actions of the Federal government. Had I known a percentage of a penny were going to something like this I would have just bought more ammunition.

[mosquitobite]

You're really Matt Collins, aren't you?

Or Jesse himself.

[cajuncocoa]

Or Jesse himself.
I just remember someone said that Matt had several sock puppets here. At this point, I strongly suspect Galileo is one of them.

[Galileo Galilei]

Is it illegal for campaigns to bribe people, then?

Could you give us a definition of bribery?

You make a bribe for official action by a public official. Campaigns are private. If you pay Tiger Woods for an endorsement, that is not a bribe.

[Galileo Galilei]

$73,000 of donated money no less.

$73,000 out of some serious Moneybomb that people bled to put together.

Go directly to jail. Do NOT collect $200,000.

That was a good deal for a major endorsement just before the election. Once Ron lost Iowa, the election was over. It would have been criminal not to get the endorsement.

[Galileo Galilei]

You're really Matt Collins, aren't you?

I have never met Matt Collins, but I know who he is in general. I don't know what state he is from though.

I am Galileo.

[Galileo Galilei]

Or Jesse himself.

No, I am not Jesse Benton, have never met him. I am Galileo the truth-teller.

[jjdoyle]

Kent Sorenson was a public official. It's why both the Bachmann and Paul campaigns are being investigated.


That was a good deal for a major endorsement just before the election. Once Ron lost Iowa, the election was over. It would have been criminal not to get the endorsement.

I think you're mistaken, because it apparently WAS CRIMINAL TO GET THE ENDORSEMENT.

And the endorsement was not a good deal, because Bachmann's voters pretty much went to Rick Santorum. Which, Ron Paul 2012 could have spent $73,000 on ads attacking Rick Santorum in Iowa, but waited until after the state to waste funds attacking him in states like South Carolina and Michigan. States Ron Paul had no chance of actually winning.

[Galileo Galilei]

Kent Sorenson was a public official. It's why both the Bachmann and Paul campaigns are being investigated.

True, but an endorsement is a private act, not an official act.

[jjdoyle]

True, but an endorsement is a private act, not an official act.

Except, it was an official act. And done at an official campaign event. And even apparently involving some form of a Ron Paul 2012 memo with an official campaign letterhead? Kent Sorenson was a public official, taking money from two campaigns, for purposes of altering his behavior. Which is in the definition of a bribe, that was provided above for you and even had sections in bold for you. You can sit here and flipflop like Mitt Romney on political positions denying the facts of this case, but it won't change them.

[cajuncocoa]

I have never met Matt Collins, but I know who he is in general. I don't know what state he is from though.

I am Galileo.
But do you know how tall he is?

[helmuth_hubener]

Is it illegal for campaigns to bribe people, then?

Could you give us a definition of bribery?You make a bribe for official action by a public official. Campaigns are private. If you pay Tiger Woods for an endorsement, that is not a bribe.
So your answer is that it would be illegal for campaigns to bribe people, but to define bribery in such a way that essentially no campaign would ever want to do it.

So it's illegal, but for all practical purposes irrelevant (because it will never happen, as you have defined it).

I suppose that's an answer.

I have another question for you, Galileo: Do you approve of what Jesse Benton and the Ron Paul campaign did? Regardless of what you want to call it (Oh no, it's not bribery! Oh, no, certainly not that!), do you approve of what they did?

[Galileo Galilei]

So your answer is that it would be illegal for campaigns to bribe people, but to define bribery in such a way that essentially no campaign would ever want to do it.

So it's illegal, but for all practical purposes irrelevant (because it will never happen, as you have defined it).

I suppose that's an answer.

I have another question for you, Galileo: Do you approve of what Jesse Benton and the Ron Paul campaign did? Regardless of what you want to call it (Oh no, it's not bribery! Oh, no, certainly not that!), do you approve of what they did?

hiring people to do campaign work is not bribery. No. It was a smart move to hire Sorenson, but the low-level creeps should have just paid him a salary without the financial shenanigans. This looks like a set-up of Jesse Benton, Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and Mitch McConnell.

[kylejack]

hiring people to do campaign work is not bribery. No. It was a smart move to hire Sorenson, but the low-level creeps should have just paid him a salary without the financial shenanigans. This looks like a set-up of Jesse Benton, Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and Mitch McConnell.
What is the value of political endorsement that is being paid for? Doesn't it negate the value?

People see someone they respect endorse another politician and think okay, if they respect this person then I will give them a try as well...but isn't that completely negated if they were paid to endorse the person? What's the point in putting any credit in an endorsement like that? If a person's endorsement is for sale to the highest bidder then why should a voter care who they endorse?

[cajuncocoa]

What is the value of political endorsement that is being paid for? Doesn't it negate the value?

People see someone they respect endorse another politician and think okay, if they respect this person then I will give them a try as well...but isn't that completely negated if they were paid to endorse the person? What's the point in putting any credit in an endorsement like that? If a person's endorsement is for sale to the highest bidder then why should a voter care who they endorse?
They shouldn't. Endorsements don't matter.

[kylejack]

They shouldn't. Endorsements don't matter.
If Ron Paul endorsed someone I would take a look at them and see if I agree and possibly send them some money. But not if they were paying him to make the endorsement.

[helmuth_hubener]

It was a smart move to hire Sorenson So your answer is yes, you approve of what Jesse Benton and the Ron Paul campaign did.

I cordially but very strongly disagree.

But, not everyone values honesty. I understand.



but the low-level creeps should have just paid him a salary without the financial shenanigans. That is extremely bad advice. I don't think you've thought this through.


This looks like a set-up of Jesse Benton, Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and Mitch McConnell. I feel I must humbly and gently inform you that the only eyes to which this "looks like" this are your own peepers. It's OK -- age will do that to the peepers. Obviously, though, to be at all credible to the rest of us at RPF you ought to keep these delusional theories and perceptions under wraps. :)

[phill4paul]

hiring people to do campaign work is not bribery. No. It was a smart move to hire Sorenson, but the low-level creeps should have just paid him a salary without the financial shenanigans. This looks like a set-up of Jesse Benton, Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and Mitch McConnell.

Oh, your posts just get better and better. Thanks for the chuckles.

[thoughtomator]

I thought Benton was a creep from Day 1, because he seemed to think the people who were most important were those deeply embedded in the establishment that hates RP. If "Establishment GOP liason" wasn't his job.

[Christian Liberty]

Would Ron be offended if we insult his granddaughter's husband? I wonder....

[jllundqu]

I could care less if Ron Paul is offended if we insult Benedict Benton...

You buy the ticket? You take the ride! Benton made his bed, he can sleep in it. Ron Paul inspired the masses precisely because he abhorred dirty politics... Benton shit all over that principle.

[Christian Liberty]

I could care less if Ron Paul is offended if we insult Benedict Benton...

You buy the ticket? You take the ride! Benton made his bed, he can sleep in it. Ron Paul inspired the masses precisely because he abhorred dirty politics... Benton shit all over that principle.

Good point.

[jmdrake]

There was no "bribery". It is not illegal for campaigns to hire people for services.

Kent Sorrenson plead guilty to something. Whether you think its legal or not....it's not.

[Natural Citizen]

.... Benedict Benton...



That's pretty good. Heh...

[Galileo Galilei]

Kent Sorrenson plead guilty to something. Whether you think its legal or not....it's not.

Yes, but Sorenson pled guilty to something that makes him and him only culpable, unlike bribery which would involve another person, as I have been saying all along.

[extortion17]

. . . because Bachmann's voters pretty much went to Rick Santorum. Which, Ron Paul 2012 could have spent $73,000 on ads attacking Rick Santorum in Iowa, but waited until after the state to waste funds attacking him in states like South Carolina and Michigan. States Ron Paul had no chance of actually winning.

Rick "man on dog sex" Santorum needed no attack ads in Iowa, the caucus state that RP won all the caucus delegates at the GOP National Convention in Tampa . . .
Sanatorium did fill the gap in the caucus night because he was propped up by Hannity and CBS in the hours/days before the media spin.

My point is that Iowa is always a bad example - it is a caucus state that decides it's delegates in June . . .
don't be fooled by Iowa's self-claim of grandiose importance . . .

California baby . . . Rand can win in Cali and the GOP knows that . . . the general election electoral college map with Cali in red -

Rachel Maddow and all of MSNBC justs wants to play to it's audience, let them feast on her regurgitation of mostly useless information - imho anyhoo.

[extortion17]

I could care less if Ron Paul is offended if we insult Benedict Benton...

You buy the ticket? You take the ride! Benton made his bed, he can sleep in it. Ron Paul inspired the masses precisely because he abhorred dirty politics... Benton shit all over that principle.


Good point.

Yeah, that was put great . . .

worth repeating . . .

Ron Paul inspired the masses precisely because he abhorred dirty politics

[kylejack]

Yes, but Sorenson pled guilty to something that makes him and him only culpable, unlike bribery which would involve another person, as I have been saying all along.
If Sorenson caused someone to file a false FEC report, then that means someone filed a false FEC report. I think we both know that Sorenson didn't trick or bamboozle the campaign into thinking they were buying video services when they were actually buying his endorsement. Someone on the campaign knew what they were buying and filed the report wrong to fool the public and the FEC.

So once again, NO, it is not something which makes only him culpable.

[kylejack]

I think Santorum's success in Iowa was sort of an exasperation vote by Christian social conservatives. They didn't love Santorum, but Romney was seen as too liberal.

[dannno]

Dirty politics is only bad when they take away your freedom. That said, it should only be done responsibly.

[jbauer]

Would Ron be offended if we insult his granddaughter's husband? I wonder....

I really don't give a RATS ASS what Ron thinks. Benton used donated money by members on this forum to the tune of $73k to bribe a state senator...can't figure out why anyone let alone a state senator would be worth $73k anyway with 6 days till the vote?

I hope Benton goes to jail right along with Sorenson. I hope they get to be bunk buddies with Bertha, the 350 pound man with a 18" dick. Enjoy!! exactly what you deserve you POS.