Time for Libertarians to Put on Their Big Boy Pants (and embrace interventionism)

[RonPaulFanInGA]

http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2014/08/24/the-big-boy-pants/?singlepage=true


I have always had a certain sympathy for libertarianism and it has only grown during the Obama administration. Who could believe in big government living under the fiasco of this man’s presidency?

And I am certainly not alone. Libertarianism, if we are to believe none other than The New York Times, has become quite chic.

But paradoxically, during this same time frame, it has become perhaps even more evident that one of the apparent tenets of libertarianism — a kind of neo-isolationism — is, well, to put it bluntly, insane. In the era of the Islamic State (not to mention a dozen other similar murderous, increasingly global organizations we could name or are being invented as I write), anyone who believes we can roll up the gangplanks to create the perfect libertarian state and everything will be just ducky is living in dreamland.

But a fair number of libertarians are. As an example, one of the leading spokesmen for the movement (I’ll be gracious by not naming him, because he’s probably embarrassed at this point) was quoted as likening the problem of Islamic terrorism to herpes — I guess he meant an annoyance you can live with if you find the right partner (who doesn’t behead you).

Do those same isolationist libertarians think that one Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, current leader of the Islamic State, was kidding when he said “See you in New York” when let out of detention camp in Iraq in 2009? If not, what do they propose to do about it? Wait until he is in New York? Maybe Eric Holder will arrest him. Or maybe he’ll blow up the Stock Exchange and sink the free market. Or one of his now thousands of minions will. Do you want to sit back to wait to find out? And what about all the unknown unknowns lurking out there?

[Lucille]

http://www.voxday.blogspot.com/2014/08/the-wrong-battleground.html


Roger Simon needs to stop worrying about other men's pants and start looking at the consequences of the idiot interventionist and immigrationist policies he has advocated in the past:
[....]
Simon doesn't stop to think that the reason the USA is in such a parlous state is the direct result of a) American military interventions, and b) America's quasi-open immigration policies. It's always interesting to see naive commentators ignorant of basic military history babbling about war, because the Clausewitzian center of gravity is NOT in the Middle East, Syria, or even Iraq. It is in the West. The war in the East cannot be seriously fought until the war in the West is won; contra the insistence of the WWI-era generals, offense is not the way to win a war.

UPDATE: To say nothing of the fact that this is the same guy who wanted the USA to remove Assad from power last year, which would have assured that ISIS was even better established in the region than it is now.

[Warlord]

Will PJ Media and the rest of the neocons who cheered on the war with Iraq ever admit they were wrong?

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Will PJ Media and the rest of the neocons who cheered on the war with Iraq ever admit they were wrong?

They seemed to be fading away, but they're emboldened by the ISIS, which is their new boogeyman for more war in the Middle East.

[thoughtomator]

the desperate pleas of the dying neocon faction are music to my ears

[presence]

Libertarians will embrace interventionism when radical Islamists start worshiping the Pope.

[kcchiefs6465]

was quoted as likening the problem of Islamic terrorism to herpes
Who's he talking about?

[Warlord]

They seemed to be fading away, but they're emboldened by the ISIS, which is their new boogeyman for more war in the Middle East.

But of course ISIS wouldn't exist if Saddam was still around

[Origanalist]

When is Roger Simon at least going to get into pull ups and quit peeing his diapers over "all the unknown unknowns lurking out there"?


In other words, it’s time for libertarians to put on their big boy pants and give some serious thought not just to national defense but to global defense, because I have some news for them: The Pax Americana was the real deal. It worked for decades, saving myriad lives, and now it’s almost gone. We have seen that writ large for us in the last few years as never before. Obama’s non-existent, feckless, reactionary, confused, absurd (or whatever other adjective you want to pick) “leading from behind” foreign policy has brought the world to the brink of madness as nothing since WWII.

Absolute blindness.

[enhanced_deficit]

They seemed to be fading away, but they're emboldened by the ISIS, which is their new boogeyman for more war in the Middle East.

Is it possible that PJ Media neocons have ties to / are actually enablers of Al Qaeda linked groups like ISIS?

U.S. journalist freed by Al-Qaida-linked group surfaces in Israel (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?458504-U-S-journalist-freed-by-Al-Qaida-linked-group-surfaces-in-Israel&)

[TheTexan]

I agree. We need to be at the forefront of every war. We are #1 after all, and we can't be #1 if we're peacenik panzies who let the terrorists win.

[Vanguard101]

But of course ISIS wouldn't exist if Saddam was still around
In Syria ISIS would still exist

[enhanced_deficit]

In Syria ISIS would still exist


Wonder why.


No need to panic ; Former CIA deputy station chief discusses ISIS with Iraqi Sunni leaders (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?454707-No-need-to-panic-Former-CIA-deputy-station-chief-discusses-ISIS-with-Iraqi-Sunni-leaders&)

Syria: The Strange US/Israel/Al-Qaeda Ménage à Trois (http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/syria-the-strange-usisraelal-qaeda-menage-a-trois/)

BOMBSHELL: ISIS leader was US prisoner. Obama released him (http://topconservativenews.com/2014/06/bombshell-isis-leader-was-us-prisoner-obama-released-him/)



Exclusive: Obama authorizes secret U.S. support for Syrian rebels ... (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/01/us-usa-syria-obama-order-idUSBRE8701OK20120801)
www.reuters.com/.../us-usa- (http://www.reuters.com/.../us-usa-)syria-obama-order-idUSBRE8701OK201208...‎
Aug 1, 2012 - WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama has signed a secret order ... Syrian rebel fighters pose for a picture in Hama July 20, 2012. ... had crafted a directive authorizing greater U.S. covert assistance to Syrian rebels. ....
Obama Funding Syrian Rebels Beheading Christians... (http://www.storyleak.com/bama-funded-syrian-rebels-beheading-christians-child-soldiers/) Jul 28, 2013 - Obama is now pushing massive funding for Syrian rebels who are ...

McCain called out over support for Al Qaeda

(http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?431333-McCain-called-out-over-support-for-Al-Qaeda&)http://www.usnews.com/dbimages/master/10457/FE_DA_090409publicopinion.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=jCusmN7biQ12ZM&tbnid=oYjxdviewO5pjM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usnews.com%2Fopinion%2Farticl es%2F2009%2F04%2F10%2Fdid-obama-bow-to-saudi-king-abdullah&ei=rXv7U-2cCc3hsASnoYCADw&bvm=bv.73612305,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNGbUZU9HqrGvcCtzqeHvTE_gZBfng&ust=1409076502581796)http://weeklyworldnews.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/obama_passover_seder.jpg?w=375&h=200 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=F0Q3t_h4fr-nNM&tbnid=lbB59GMQUWDfNM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fweeklyworldnews.com%2Fpolitics%2F 7454%2Fobamas-passover-seder-dinner%2F&ei=43v7U6HcH6rlsASo5oLwCw&bvm=bv.73612305,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNGOpVeTb3CDR8GNNE_mxu_jKFqteQ&ust=1409076575900153)
(http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?431333-McCain-called-out-over-support-for-Al-Qaeda&)http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/bDq1_E32hM8fq0wCczEMqQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTk1NztweW9mZj0wO3E9Nz U7dz05NjA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/e11805dedf7e2311330f6a7067000be3.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=YoAOb1sB2VvvtM&tbnid=vHImb8OtKddxZM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2F21stcenturywire.com%2F2013%2F10%2 F24%2Fjohn-mccain-chewed-out-by-phoenix-resident-for-supporting-for-al-qaeda-in-syria%2F&ei=IIX7U9D1KuHO8AH_1IHABw&bvm=bv.73612305,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNFBo14SQL-5Ndh7C56mGz272q96Ww&ust=1409078926918626)

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/mXaUrV_NGjo/0.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&docid=bTfdCXFBOsH6vM&tbnid=OtWpO_oR7dyFIM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Farticle.wn.com%2Fview%2F2014%2F02 %2F15%2FLa_sinkhole_danger_gas_gathering_concerns_ officials%2F&ei=qIX7U53FAu3jsATM1YFI&bvm=bv.73612305,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNFBo14SQL-5Ndh7C56mGz272q96Ww&ust=1409078926918626)

[Philhelm]

DD-214 showing his service in Iraq or STFU.

[thoughtomator]

In Syria ISIS would still exist

Unlikely to be a significant force without the massive US aid that has flowed their way for years.

[Anti Federalist]

Do those same isolationist libertarians think that one Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, current leader of the Islamic State, was kidding when he said “See you in New York” when let out of detention camp in Iraq in 2009? If not, what do they propose to do about it? Wait until he is in New York? Maybe Eric Holder will arrest him. Or maybe he’ll blow up the Stock Exchange and sink the free market. Or one of his now thousands of minions will. Do you want to sit back to wait to find out? And what about all the unknown unknowns lurking out there?

Blowing up a building won't sink the free market.


excessive policing of an authoritarian government involved in the redistribution of wealth. - Ron Paul

That will.

And a government constantly at war and constantly broke, will become an authoritarian government, where you will have neither rights nor free markets.

[Philhelm]

And a government constantly at war and constantly broke, will become an authoritarian government, where you will have neither rights nor free markets.

Even during middle school, and a public school at that, the term "guns and butter" was used, a term that our handlers conveniently "forgot."

[Working Poor]

Do you want to sit back to wait to find out?

Yea I do.

[Ronin Truth]

Time for interventionists to put their brains back in heads and to begin supporting, minding our own business.

[georgiaboy]

Dude, our sane foreign policy is a key reason why libertarianism is becoming so popular in the first place!

/so lame.

[69360]

The US only has to deal with IS because Obama bombed them. They should have been left alone, not our problem, they weren't threatening the US previously.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I am going to smack the crap out of the next person who uses the term about big boys and pants.

[pcosmar]

In Syria ISIS would still exist

Not if we weren't funding the Overthrow of Assad.
If we had stayed out of it,, that war would have been over long ago... and the ISIS would not exist beyond a few de-funded CIA assets.

[pcosmar]

The US only has to deal with IS because Obama bombed them. They should have been left alone, not our problem, they weren't threatening the US previously.

But he had to save the Satan worshipers Religious Minority. :rolleyes:

[otherone]

I've been told that if drugs were legal, people would do drugs.
Thank goodness they are illegal, now no one is doing drugs.

[JK/SEA]

I agree. We need to be at the forefront of every war. We are #1 after all, and we can't be #1 if we're peacenik panzies who let the terrorists win.

Head...meet wall..

[JK/SEA]

I am going to smack the crap out of the next person who uses the term about big boys and pants.

just reply back..'engage brain before using mouth'

[69360]

But he had to save the Satan worshipers Religious Minority. :rolleyes:

They aren't actually Satan worshipers. IS and I think most Sunnis think the chief holy being or angel Malek Taus, that Yazidis believe in is Satan. But this is not what the Yazidis believe.

But, anyway, yeah.

[JK/SEA]

They aren't actually Satan worshipers. IS and I think most Sunnis think the chief holy being or angel Malek Taus, that Yazidis believe in is Satan. But this is not what the Yazidis believe.

But, anyway, yeah.

don't care....just thought you should know.

[Peace&Freedom]

Time for the interventionists to put on their big boy pants, and constitutionally declare the wars they claim are so necessary. Time for them to officially declare who the enemy is that we are in a state of war with, and what is the specific exit or closure from this war. Statutorily, it's at least time for them to call out the President for unlawfully extending military action well past the 60 day window of the War Powers Authorization law, and 11 years past the Authorization to Use Force in Iraq.

Time for the war whoopers to explain what authorization Obarry has (constitutional or WPA, or AUF) to be extending major military actions into Syria, which is covered by neither. Time for them to put on their military pants and gear, and parachute in to fight these wars they so feverishly want us to fight in the absence of law.

[acptulsa]

Time for interventionists to put their brains back in heads and to begin supporting, minding our own business.

But then what would they sit on...?

[John F Kennedy III]

Let me guess the Rand supporters are trying to convert libertarians into warhawks?

[TheTexan]

Non-intervention is exactly what the terrorists want you to do, even Ron Paul would agree with that

[John F Kennedy III]

Non-intervention is exactly what the terrorists want you to do, even Ron Paul would agree with that

Who cares what the terrorists want us to do? I didn't know people around here were fond of obeying the US government.

[TomtheTinker]

Time for interventionists to put their brains back in heads and to begin supporting, minding our own business.

It's not their brains that malfunction, it's their morals.

[Brian4Liberty]

Let me guess the Rand supporters are trying to convert libertarians into warhawks?

Rand supporters? Who are you taking about?

The article was written by a neoconservative who doesn't support Rand or libertarianism.

[NH4RonPaul]

Bullcrap.... stay out of NH OK?

[NH4RonPaul]

Why am I seeing Democrat Jim Rubens ads on this forum?

[CaseyJones]

Why am I seeing Democrat Jim Rubens ads on this forum?

they are google ads they see you are in NH

[Working Poor]

McCain looks like he has on his big boy panties.

[amy31416]

Let me guess the Rand supporters are trying to convert libertarians into warhawks?

I'm supporting Rand, and nobody has any chance of converting me into a warhawk.

[outspoken]

I can't wait to see Rand Paul debate such topics! He will blow the big boy pants right off the authoritarians on the left and the right... He is much more polished than even daddy was standing up to the neocon bullies. There will be a lot of ah-ha moments for the public watching. Sadly, the country is in a downward tailspin and giving the steering wheel to the even the most liberty-minded of leaders may not be enough to right the plane. Should it crash with a free market, anti-Fed libertarian at the helm, I fear what may come next... Might make Hitler look like a pacifist... Scary shit if the dollar collapses and there is nothing to say that won't happen in the next 10 years at the pace we are going.