An insight into how internet trolls operate to stifle discussion

[devil21]

Interesting blog read on one troll's tactics. This sort of stuff is everywhere and definitely not just on Israel topics.

http://www.commondreams.org/hambaconeggs



A Common Dreams investigation has discovered that more than a thousand of these damaging comments over the past two years were written with a deceptive purpose by a Jewish Harvard graduate in his thirties who was irritated by the website's discussion of issues involving Israel.

His intricate campaign, which he has admitted to Common Dreams, included posting comments by a screen name, "JewishProgressive," whose purpose was to draw attention to and denounce the anti-Semitic comments that he had written under many other screen names.

much more at link

[devil21]

bump

[parocks]

bump

Seems like I've seen that type of thing before, seems typical almost.

[acptulsa]

I know I have. Here. During the Great Alleged Stormfront Invasion, for example.

Several of us cured that by denouncing the crap on the spot. Never gave them a chance to come back and denounce it later.

[DamianTV]

So basically he gets into an argument "with himself" to derail a thread? I know I crack jokes and get off topic a lot, but I sure as shit dont get in arguments with myself just to undermine any particular point...

[acptulsa]

So basically he gets into an argument "with himself" to derail a thread? I know I crack jokes and get off topic a lot, but I sure as shit dont get in arguments with myself just to undermine any particular point...

Not just that. I call them 'guilt by association trolls'. The Stormfront Invasion was at a time when msnbc was leading a 'all libertarians are racist' charge--the same one that led them to post a pic of a black man at a tea party (with his AK-47) a racist. They were trying to make us all look racist by sending their minions to post racist crap on our site. Guilt by association--in this case meaning by not banning their trolls out of hand.

Here's a more subtle method of derailing discussions--though I and others kept making them stop, so they decided to try to derail all of them with a separate thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?458200-How-exactly-was-quot-Life-better-in-the-past-quot

We talk about how wages don't keep up with the devaluation of the dollar, making everyone but those who don't make commission or live off of their stocks poorer and their bosses richer. So, they keep asking, over and over, if life isn't better than it was before the automobile and the ice cream freezer and the cure for polio were invented. Sort of a variation of the 'Obamacare is the law, live with it' gambit--pretending you can't undo what we've been doing wrong without completely turning back the clock.

Of course we can back up and take the right road without turning back the clock completely. What we cannot do is completely turn back the clock. But that obvious fact doesn't fit the agenda, so they try to find some suckers to fool with their crap...

[green73]

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
What’s confusing you
Is the nature of my game

- The Rolling Stones
What’s Confusing You Is the Nature of Their Game

The reason that Internet trolls are effective is that people still don’t understand their game.

There are 15 commonly-used trolling tactics (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/08/the-15-rules-of-internet-disinformation.html) to disrupt, misdirect and control (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/10/cointelpro-techniques-for-dilution-misdirection-and-control-of-an-internet-forum.html) internet discussions.

As one interesting example, trolls start flame wars because – according to two professors – swearing and name-calling shut down our ability to think and focus (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/02/trolls-start-flame-wars-swearing-name-calling-web-shuts-ability-think-focus.html).

And trolls will often spew divisive attacks so that people argue against each other, instead of bad actions and policies of the powers-that-be. For example, trolls will (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/08/the-15-rules-of-internet-disinformation.html):


Start a religious war whenever possible using stereotypes like “all Jews are selfish”, “all Christians are crazy” or “all Muslims are terrorists”.

Yesterday, the alternative news site Common Dreams caught a troll (http://www.commondreams.org/hambaconeggs)using scores of different user names [over a two year period] to spew anti-Semitic bile. (Common Dreams discovered that the same troll was behind the multiple user names by tracking their IP addresses. And the troll confessed to Common Dreams.)

The troll is a “a Jewish Harvard graduate in his thirties who was irritated by the website’s discussion of issues involving Israel”.

He posted anti-Semitic diatribes – such as Hitler should have finished the job and killed all Jews – using one alias. Then – a couple of minutes later – he’d post an attack on the first poster using a different alias, claiming that criticism of Israel is the same thing as anti-Semitism. (Note: Holocaust survivors and Israeli ministers say it’s not (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/holocaust-survivor-israeli-minister-labeling-criticism-israel-anti-semitic-trick.html).)

Why would a Jew post vile anti-Semitic comments? Because normal people are offended by – and don’t want to be associated with – pure, naked anti-Semitism, and so they will avoid such discussions. If the discussion was originally criticizing a specific aspect of Israeli policy, the discussion will break down, and the actual point regarding policy will be lost.

Similarly, anti-Semitic posts weaken websites by making them seem less reputable. Indeed, Common Dreams says that the troll’s anti-Semitic comments drove away many of that site’s largest donors … dealing a severe blow to its continued viability. That’s exactly what trolls spewing anti-Semitic bile are trying to do: shut down logical discussion and discredit and weaken sites which allow rational criticism of policy.

It is well-known that foreign governments and large companies troll online. See this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7783640.stm), this (http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/07/15/1351204/Internet-Astroturfer-Fined-300000?from=rss) this (http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Hasbara-public-diplomacy-and-propaganda-358211), and this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/dec/13/astroturf-libertarians-internet-democracy). For example, the Israeli government is paying students (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-students-social-media/2651715/) to post pro-Israeli comments (http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.541142) online.

And American students are also attempting to influence internet discussion (http://www.hasbarafellowships.org/).

While the Common Dreams troll claims that he’s not sponsored by the state of Israel, government (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/06/whitehouse-launches-propaganda-troll-level.html) agencies (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/pentagon-admits-spending-millions-study-manipulate-social-media-users.html) have manipulated (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/eglin-air-force-base-busted-gaming-reddit.html) Internet (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/new-snowden-docs-british-spies-seed-internet-false-information-including-ability-manipulate-results-online-polls-artificially-inflate-pageview-counts-web-sites.html) discussion for years. This includes the use of multiple “socket puppet” (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/02/you-know-those-obnoxious-posters-who-almost-seem-like-alter-egos-of-the-same-person-they-actually-might-be.html) aliases. The potential for mischief is stunning (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/spy-agencies-dirty-trick-powers-revealed-snowden.html).

Unless we learn their game …

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/trolls-whats-confusing-nature-game.html

[otherone]

And trolls will often spew divisive attacks so that people argue against each other, instead of bad actions and policies of the powers-that-be.

I always wonder why some posters here make discussions personal. I've assumed it was due to poor debating ability; now I'm not so sure.

[pessimist]

The term 'troll' is used way too liberally and is often aimed at people who aren't even trolling. The guy in question just sounds like some bored Ivy Leaguer with too much time on his hands. However, he certainly fits the description of a troll, in fact, a troll of the lowest order. Trolls who use sock puppets are generally terrible people.

[Natural Citizen]

I always wonder why some posters here make discussions personal. I've assumed it was due to poor debating ability; now I'm not so sure.

Well. I'll just give an example of how this is something that we tend to take for granted.

Let's say that I'm in a thread dicussing biotechnology and it's effect on agriculture. Just something out of the blue.

If I were to say to someone that "Well...what we see here in this data is that...blah, blah, blah, whatever". What happenes is that the left-right political paradigm in us just naturally kicks in and we say things like "What do you mean by "us"...you're not one of us" That kind of thing. And so what happens is that we basically troll ourselves into getting personal when what it was that solicitied or stimulated that response wasn't ever personal in the first place. You see? Of course, that's just one example and then with the added "issues" which are almost always subjective it further compounds what you're talking about.

It could be said to be poor debating ability but then when we get everyone in on it and it becomes a party what you end up with is flotsam and jetsam. Self inflicted no less. Kind of a pack structure versus PAC structure conundrum. There was a thread around here some place about frequency. It's older so probably buried. Of course, we'd do well to remember that, practically speaking, there are no trolls.

[R.G]

pessimist, I agree with your, "The term 'troll' is used way too liberally and is often aimed at people who aren't even trolling."

Some people say the people who are not trolling - are. Some people think that real trolls - are not. Who gives these people the right to judge? What about the 1st Amendment? Then what about those bozo's that say there can never be a disagreement? FREEDOM is not when nobody fights. Who came up with that rule?

Now if I know someone is a liar I like to get in their face and say, "Who are U Jivin' with this Cosmik Debri? Those people who insist on LOVE all the time are fruitcakes.

[CPUd]

In some threads at RPFs there is meta-trolling going on. Trolls using trolls to troll each other, with no idea they are being trolled themselves.

[pessimist]

In some threads at RPFs there is meta-trolling going on. Trolls using trolls to troll each other, with no idea they are being trolled themselves.


Haha. Interesting.

But what if the trolls using each other to troll others are actually the ones being trolled by the ones they think they're trolling who are being trolled themselves by other trolls?

[CPUd]

Haha. Interesting.

But what if the trolls using each other to troll others are actually the ones being trolled by the ones they think they're trolling?

Pretty sure that's what I said.

[pessimist]

Pretty sure that's what I said.


yeah I realized that and added to it. What if everyone is being trolled is my point.

or was that your point?

[devil21]

I always wonder why some posters here make discussions personal. I've assumed it was due to poor debating ability; now I'm not so sure.

This is one of the most civil political forums in existence, imho, so that should tell you plenty about how much trolling/shilling is going on across the rest of the net.

[otherone]

This is one of the most civil political forums in existence, imho, so that should tell you plenty about how much trolling/shilling is going on across the rest of the net.

I agree; which is why ad hominem here sticks out all the more.