Wired: Snowden: The Worst NSA Revelations Are Yet to Come

[Thor]

Edward Snowden - The most wanted man in the world

http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/cover2.png


The message arrives on my “clean machine,” a MacBook Air loaded only with a sophisticated encryption package. “Change in plans,” my contact says. “Be in the lobby of the Hotel ______ by 1 pm. Bring a book and wait for ES to find you.” ¶ ES is Edward Snowden, the most wanted man in the world. For almost nine months, I have been trying to set up an interview with him—traveling to Berlin, Rio de Janeiro twice, and New York multiple times to talk with the handful of his confidants who can arrange a meeting. Among other things, I want to answer a burning question: What drove Snowden to leak hundreds of thousands of top-secret documents, revelations that have laid bare the vast scope of the government's domestic surveillance programs? In May I received an email from his lawyer, ACLU attorney Ben Wizner, confirming that Snowden would meet me in Moscow and let me hang out and chat with him for what turned out to be three solid days over several weeks. It is the most time that any journalist has been allowed to spend with him since he arrived in Russia in June 2013. But the finer details of the rendezvous remain shrouded in mystery. I landed in Moscow without knowing precisely where or when Snowden and I would actually meet. Now, at last, the details are set.

more (http://www.wired.com/2014/08/edward-snowden/)



Lot's more at the link....

http://www.wired.com/2014/08/edward-snowden/

Good read, for sure....

[thoughtomator]

"blackmailing Supreme Court justices" which IMO has almost certainly happened is a good candidate for "worst yet"

[Anti Federalist]

And not a fuck will be given...

[Thor]

And not a fuck will be given...

Unfortunately, by and large, that is correct...

www.maidsafe.net

[phill4paul]

I'm starting to get tired of this "wait there is more" B.S. Dump it already.

[Thor]

I'm starting to get tired of this "wait there is more" B.S. Dump it already.

He can't ....


Meanwhile, Snowden will continue to haunt the US, the unpredictable impact of his actions resonating at home and around the world. The documents themselves, however, are out of his control. Snowden no longer has access to them; he says he didn’t bring them with him to Russia. Copies are now in the hands of three groups: First Look Media, set up by journalist Glenn Greenwald and American documentary filmmaker Laura Poitras, the two original recipients of the documents; The Guardian newspaper, which also received copies before the British government pressured it into transferring physical custody (but not ownership) to The New York Times; and Barton Gellman, a writer for The Washington Post. It’s highly unlikely that the current custodians will ever return the documents to the NSA.

[phill4paul]

He can't ....

I'm talking about those that are holding it not specifically Snowden. Every bit of it should have been dumped for public consumption and parsing from the get go I.M.H.O. With holding the info is no better than the government hiding it in the first place.

[Anti Federalist]

“It’s like the boiling frog,” Snowden tells me. “You get exposed to a little bit of evil, a little bit of rule-breaking, a little bit of dishonesty, a little bit of deceptiveness, a little bit of disservice to the public interest, and you can brush it off, you can come to justify it. But if you do that, it creates a slippery slope that just increases over time, and by the time you’ve been in 15 years, 20 years, 25 years, you’ve seen it all and it doesn’t shock you. And so you see it as normal. And that’s the problem, that’s what the Clapper event was all about. He saw deceiving the American people as what he does, as his job, as something completely ordinary. And he was right that he wouldn’t be punished for it, because he was revealed as having lied under oath and he didn’t even get a slap on the wrist for it. It says a lot about the system and a lot about our leaders.” Snowden decided it was time to hop out of the water before he too was boiled alive.

“It’s like the boiling frog,” Snowden tells me. “You get exposed to a little bit of evil, a little bit of rule-breaking, a little bit of dishonesty, a little bit of deceptiveness, a little bit of disservice to the public interest, and you can brush it off, you can come to justify it. But if you do that, it creates a slippery slope that just increases over time, and by the time you’ve been in 15 years, 20 years, 25 years, you’ve seen it all and it doesn’t shock you. And so you see it as normal. And that’s the problem, that’s what the Clapper event was all about. He saw deceiving the American people as what he does, as his job, as something completely ordinary. And he was right that he wouldn’t be punished for it, because he was revealed as having lied under oath and he didn’t even get a slap on the wrist for it. It says a lot about the system and a lot about our leaders.” Snowden decided it was time to hop out of the water before he too was boiled alive.

“It’s like the boiling frog,” Snowden tells me. “You get exposed to a little bit of evil, a little bit of rule-breaking, a little bit of dishonesty, a little bit of deceptiveness, a little bit of disservice to the public interest, and you can brush it off, you can come to justify it. But if you do that, it creates a slippery slope that just increases over time, and by the time you’ve been in 15 years, 20 years, 25 years, you’ve seen it all and it doesn’t shock you. And so you see it as normal. And that’s the problem, that’s what the Clapper event was all about. He saw deceiving the American people as what he does, as his job, as something completely ordinary. And he was right that he wouldn’t be punished for it, because he was revealed as having lied under oath and he didn’t even get a slap on the wrist for it. It says a lot about the system and a lot about our leaders.” Snowden decided it was time to hop out of the water before he too was boiled alive.

[Lucille]

I'm starting to get tired of this "wait there is more" B.S. Dump it already.
All of it!

http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/13/new-snowden-profile-in-wired-reveals-new


Snowden's explanation that he left clues so NSA could determine how many documents he actually took with him (they still don't know), and more potential confirmation that there is at least one other NSA leaker out there.

:)

[Thor]

I'm talking about those that are holding it not specifically Snowden. Every bit of it should have been dumped for public consumption and parsing from the get go I.M.H.O. With holding the info is no better than the government hiding it in the first place.

I agree, to a point. It would be nice to get it all out. But it is also fun to watch them spin a story, only to have more info released to show the spin was a lie as well. Digging the grave deeper. So I see both sides... pump and dump, and cat and mouse.

[Origanalist]

I'm starting to get tired of this "wait there is more" B.S. Dump it already.

You wrote exactly what I was thinking. Drop the whole bomb, maybe it will be load enough to wake up the sleepers. Maybe.

[Thor]

“It’s like the boiling frog,” Snowden tells me. “You get exposed to a little bit of evil, a little bit of rule-breaking, a little bit of dishonesty, a little bit of deceptiveness, a little bit of disservice to the public interest, and you can brush it off, you can come to justify it. But if you do that, it creates a slippery slope that just increases over time, and by the time you’ve been in 15 years, 20 years, 25 years, you’ve seen it all and it doesn’t shock you. And so you see it as normal. And that’s the problem, that’s what the Clapper event was all about. He saw deceiving the American people as what he does, as his job, as something completely ordinary. And he was right that he wouldn’t be punished for it, because he was revealed as having lied under oath and he didn’t even get a slap on the wrist for it. It says a lot about the system and a lot about our leaders.” Snowden decided it was time to hop out of the water before he too was boiled alive.

“It’s like the boiling frog,” Snowden tells me. “You get exposed to a little bit of evil, a little bit of rule-breaking, a little bit of dishonesty, a little bit of deceptiveness, a little bit of disservice to the public interest, and you can brush it off, you can come to justify it. But if you do that, it creates a slippery slope that just increases over time, and by the time you’ve been in 15 years, 20 years, 25 years, you’ve seen it all and it doesn’t shock you. And so you see it as normal. And that’s the problem, that’s what the Clapper event was all about. He saw deceiving the American people as what he does, as his job, as something completely ordinary. And he was right that he wouldn’t be punished for it, because he was revealed as having lied under oath and he didn’t even get a slap on the wrist for it. It says a lot about the system and a lot about our leaders.” Snowden decided it was time to hop out of the water before he too was boiled alive.

“It’s like the boiling frog,” Snowden tells me. “You get exposed to a little bit of evil, a little bit of rule-breaking, a little bit of dishonesty, a little bit of deceptiveness, a little bit of disservice to the public interest, and you can brush it off, you can come to justify it. But if you do that, it creates a slippery slope that just increases over time, and by the time you’ve been in 15 years, 20 years, 25 years, you’ve seen it all and it doesn’t shock you. And so you see it as normal. And that’s the problem, that’s what the Clapper event was all about. He saw deceiving the American people as what he does, as his job, as something completely ordinary. And he was right that he wouldn’t be punished for it, because he was revealed as having lied under oath and he didn’t even get a slap on the wrist for it. It says a lot about the system and a lot about our leaders.” Snowden decided it was time to hop out of the water before he too was boiled alive.

Amen to that. How many more will wake up and "decided it was time to hop out of the water before he too was boiled alive."

[Lord Xar]

"blackmailing Supreme Court justices" which IMO has almost certainly happened is a good candidate for "worst yet"

How do you think they got Obamacare passed? They have dirt on that one dude who said "it's not a tax, but a fee...".

[Anti Federalist]

I agree, to a point. It would be nice to get it all out. But it is also fun to watch them spin a story, only to have more info released to show the spin was a lie as well. Digging the grave deeper. So I see both sides... pump and dump, and cat and mouse.

I was of the "dump it all" school of thought as well, but I see your point.

Dump some, make the system lie and spin, then dump some more, proving them liars, and so on.

Worth it doing it that way if only on the off chance that it gives the miserable sluts ulcers.

[Anti Federalist]

How do you think they got Obamacare passed? They have dirt on that one dude who said "it's not a tax, but a fee...".

AmeriKa...

[helmuth_hubener]

www.maidsafe.net

Was not aware of this project. Thanks.

[Lucille]

I agree, to a point. It would be nice to get it all out. But it is also fun to watch them spin a story, only to have more info released to show the spin was a lie as well. Digging the grave deeper. So I see both sides... pump and dump, and cat and mouse.

I'm with Arthur:

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2014/04/call-me-irresponsible-please.html


The manner of disclosure adopted by Lord Greenwald & Friends, a model of a polite, rules-abiding challenge to authority, has stopped exactly nothing. To the contrary, the primary effect of the disclosures has been to normalize increasingly pervasive, all-encompassing surveillance, and even to make it "legal."

[KEEF]

I agree, to a point. It would be nice to get it all out. But it is also fun to watch them spin a story, only to have more info released to show the spin was a lie as well. Digging the grave deeper. So I see both sides... pump and dump, and cat and mouse.

I agree, but at the same time with our pop cultured-10 seconds of sustainable attention society, if these big pieces of information don't get out ASAP, then in a couple months people will be like Snowden who? What is the NSA?

Dear Mr. Snowden and/or whomever is handling these documents, please release them before the new fall T.V. program schedule is released just so to distract the world with Honey Boo Boo.

I do hope that whatever this big release is coming out, that it is huge... talking big enough to wake up people. Maybe it will be those censored pages from the 9/11 Commission Report... here is hoping.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

I'm starting to get tired of this "wait there is more" B.S. Dump it already.


http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/morestuff/Snowden.jpg

[jllundqu]

Unless and until I see the smoking gun that has oft been referredt to.... I call BS. If they had something truly damaging, it would have been put out already. This stinks of someone who wants to remain relevant and in the spotlight.

Love you, Ed, but either you have the goods or you're bluffing for publicity.

[Anti Federalist]

Unless and until I see the smoking gun that has oft been referredt to.... I call BS. If they had something truly damaging, it would have been put out already. This stinks of someone who wants to remain relevant and in the spotlight.

Love you, Ed, but either you have the goods or you're bluffing for publicity.

In the article and in the thread, it is stated why he can do nothing about it.


The documents themselves, however, are out of his control. Snowden no longer has access to them; he says he didn’t bring them with him to Russia.

[Schifference]

In the article and in the thread, it is stated why he can do nothing about it.

Maybe I have seen to much TV but if I were Snowden I would have made a copy and have it stashed in a place that only I knew its whereabouts.

[puppetmaster]

I'm starting to get tired of this "wait there is more" B.S. Dump it already.
no shit....cmon.....not going to release the names to protect the victim.... yada yada

[tangent4ronpaul]

Does anyone want to ask Bamford anything. Don't know if he will answer questions and I suspect he entered into a secrecy agreement re: access to the archive, but I do know the guy. He can be slow to respond - travels a lot.

I've been personally wondering about EO 12333 vs patriot act and if overturning the latter would change anything at all. I was planning on writing him with that question and also wondering if Ed had any thoughts on the subject...

-t

[MaxPower]

I can see both sides of the "release-it-all-at-once" vs. "release-it-piecemeal-to-demonstrate-the-government's-dishonesty" debate, but I will say that the latter is looking to me right now a bit like it falls prey to a "boiling-frog" trap of the sort Edward mentioned in his interview. If they had revealed everything-- including all the things the government denied, then had to fess up to-- right off the bat, perhaps it actually would have shocked the public into drastic action, whereas the piecemeal approach has made some people who couldn't have handled it all at once at the beginning accustomed to rationalizing the State's criminality and dishonesty step-by-step.

[jkob]

they need to release the information when they get it, I don't trust these other people. If there is information that could shake the foundations of this dictatorship then you release the information.

[TheTexan]

Unfortunately, by and large, that is correct...

www.maidsafe.net

But, then how would the government shut down illegal websites? Such as child pornography? Also, terrorists. And drugs too while we're at it.

Since I'm assuming that you're against the sexual abuse of children, it's probably safe to assume that you agree that this technology should just be made illegal. Or, better yet, the President should make an executive order declaring it illegal under any of a number of existing laws.

Unless you hate children and you support terrorism??

[Thor]

But, then how would the government shut down illegal websites? Such as child pornography? Also, terrorists. And drugs too while we're at it.

Since I'm assuming that you're against the sexual abuse of children, it's probably safe to assume that you agree that this technology should just be made illegal. Or, better yet, the President should make an executive order declaring it illegal under any of a number of existing laws.

Unless you hate children and you support terrorism??

It is for the children... I agree. We should all be under the all seeing eye at all times. We cannot be trusted to think for ourselves. We are sheeple in pen with the flock guardian watching over us. We could eat the wrong weed and .... die! OMG, save me.

[NewRightLibertarian]

I was of the "dump it all" school of thought as well, but I see your point.

Dump some, make the system lie and spin, then dump some more, proving them liars, and so on.

Worth it doing it that way if only on the off chance that it gives the miserable sluts ulcers.

Snowden went about it in a very slick way. I'm just not sure about Greenwald and his new media venture being on the up and up.

[Lucille]

Snowden went about it in a very slick way. I'm just not sure about Greenwald and his new media venture being on the up and up.

Giving it to Greenwald was a huge mistake (http://urli.st/lxa-Arthur-Silber-on-Snowden-Greenwald-Omidyar-and-Whistleblowers). He should have given it to Wikileaks.

[NewRightLibertarian]

Giving it to Greenwald was a huge mistake (http://urli.st/lxa-Arthur-Silber-on-Snowden-Greenwald-Omidyar-and-Whistleblowers). He should have given it to Wikileaks.

I've been disappointed with Greenwald and co. lately. It's supposed to be a shocking revelation that the government is spying on a bunch of Muslims? I mean, give me a fucking break. And his collusion with this Ebay asshole, I don't like it one bit. Greenwald should have crowdfunded his shit and had it completely independent and underground. Perhaps the fame and limelight is going to his head.

[Thor]

I've been disappointed with Greenwald and co. lately. It's supposed to be a shocking revelation that the government is spying on a bunch of Muslims? I mean, give me a fucking break. And his collusion with this Ebay asshole, I don't like it one bit. Greenwald should have crowdfunded his shit and had it completely independent and underground. Perhaps the fame and limelight is going to his head.

What happened to Cryptome and "Releasing all remaining documents in July"

Cryptome: ‬Remaining Snowden docs will be released to avert ‘unspecified US war’ in July
http://benswann.com/cryptome-remaining-snowden-docs-will-be-released-to-avert-unspecified-us-war-in-july/


Looks like maybe it was just a publicity stunt, as this shows they are just making demands, and don't have the documents:

http://cryptome.org/2013/11/snowden-tally.htm




12 August 2014. Add 6 pages to The Intercept. Tally now *2,146 pages of The Guardian first reported 58,000 files; caveat: Janine Gibson, The Guardian NY, said on 30 January 2014 "much more than 58,000 files in first part, two more parts" (no numbers) (tally now less than ~3.5%). DoD claims 1,700,000 files (~.012% of that released). ACLU lists 525 pages released by the press. However, if as The Washington Post reported, a minimum of 250,000 pages are in the Snowden files, then less than 1% have been released.

5 August 2014. Add 12 pages to The Intercept. Tally now *2,140 pages of The Guardian first reported 58,000 files; caveat: Janine Gibson, The Guardian NY, said on 30 January 2014 "much more than 58,000 files in first part, two more parts" (no numbers) (tally now less than ~3.5%). DoD claims 1,700,000 files (~.012% of that released). ACLU lists 525 pages released by the press. However, if as The Washington Post reported, a minimum of 250,000 pages are in the Snowden files, then less than 1% have been released.

4 August 2014. Add 23 pages to The Intercept.

25 July 2014. Add 4 pages to The Intercept.

14 July 2014. Add 8 pages to The Intercept.

14 July 2014. "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_%28film%29

Cryptome has sent a demand for accounting and public release specifics to holders of the Snowden documents: New York Times, Washington Post, The Guardian, Barton Gellman, Laura Poitrias, Glenn Greenwald, ACLU, EFF and John and Jane Does, US Citizens:

http://cryptome.org/2014/07/snowden-documents-demand-14-0714.pdf

[AuH20]

I've been disappointed with Greenwald and co. lately. It's supposed to be a shocking revelation that the government is spying on a bunch of Muslims? I mean, give me a fucking break. And his collusion with this Ebay asshole, I don't like it one bit. Greenwald should have crowdfunded his shit and had it completely independent and underground. Perhaps the fame and limelight is going to his head.

Yup.

http://pando.com/2014/02/28/pierre-omidyar-co-funded-ukraine-revolution-groups-with-us-government-documents-show/

[tangent4ronpaul]

When Der Speigal (think) released the TAO catalog, it was too much at once. Bruce Steiner took a full month + and did one catalog item a day in his blog. It's better to release it slow. Not only are they able to fuck with world politics, but they can catch them lying over and over and over again...

As to Cryptome, prevent a war... have you tuned into the news lately.... what about the autonomous program Snowden revealed in the last article. That sounds like it could start a war...

But yeah, I don't see a total data dump happening anytime soon.

-t

[muh_roads]

I admire Snowden. He is delaying the clock and giving us more time to install liberty, IMO.

Read up on Bitcoin guys. You may be able to get some cheap soon.

[Aratus]

to post in this thread is to be a true patriot...
that there are more revelations is inevitable...
we must wait and then judge accordingly...

[Thor]

The NSA Revelations All in One Chart

This is a plot of the NSA programs revealed in the past year according to whether they are bulk or targeted, and whether the targets of surveillance are foreign or domestic. Most of the programs fall squarely into the agency’s stated mission of foreign surveillance, but some – particularly those that are both domestic and broad-sweeping – are more controversial.

Just as with the New York Magazine approval matrix that served as our inspiration, the placement of each program is based on judgments and is approximate.

For more details, read our FAQ or listen to our podcast. Also, take our quiz to test your NSA knowledge.

https://i.imgur.com/CdEDciQ.jpg

List to go with graphic at the site.
http://projects.propublica.org/nsa-grid/

[Lucille]

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2013/09/when-state-floods-zone-reform-is-dead.html


In fact, and it gives me no pleasure to say this, but it's better to face the truth as fully as we can, if the NSA ceased to exist today, it would not make any appreciable difference in the surveillance activities of the United States government.

http://ohtarzie.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/usintelligencefunding.png?w=640&h=272


the Department of Homeland Security doesn't even appear in the graphic.
[...]
to focus on the NSA as if that agency is the only or even a major source of the problem is entirely wrong. The NSA is only one source of the rot that is spread across numerous agencies and programs, the rot that has infected our government at every level (federal, state, county, municipal, etc.) and in countless ways. But the unique and restricted focus on the NSA is also an enormous boon to the State; it is largely the result of our culture's idiotic and myopic focus on the "hot" story of the moment, devoid of history, of context, of everything that should inform our understanding of the issues involved. It creates and supports the view that, if only we "fix" the NSA, then a significant part of the problem will be solved. But that is flatly untrue. As I already noted, you could eliminate the NSA entirely this very minute, and it wouldn't make a damned bit of difference. But the heightened focus on the NSA, while ignoring all the other agencies and programs involved in similar and even identical activities, leads directly to the "solution" that will make the State writhe in ecstasy. Congress will have some hearings, and they will provide for some "oversight" and "accountability," and most people, including most of the State's critics, will herald the great triumph of "the people" and "democracy." Meanwhile, the State will continue doing exactly what it was doing before.

[willwash]

Does someone have a link to a concise SNowden narrative? What he leaked, how he leaked it, how the government originally responded, how the initial leak was verified, subsequent leaks, etc?

[Thor]

Does someone have a link to a concise SNowden narrative? What he leaked, how he leaked it, how the government originally responded, how the initial leak was verified, subsequent leaks, etc?

I did a quick duck and got these good hits:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=snowden+timeline

Some jump out:
http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-leaks-timeline-2014-6
http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/edward-snowden-interview/edward-snowden-timeline-n114871


This one has a great interactive tool / timeline (near the bottom) where you can forward thru each revelation:
http://i.imgur.com/wBvgK45.jpg (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9248800/The_Snowden_leaks_A_timeline)
(hover over the infographic on the side for the forward and back arrows to appear like the grey bar in the image above)
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9248800/The_Snowden_leaks_A_timeline

[JustinTime]

What Snowden revealed is what should send Americans out into the streets rioting.

[TheTexan]

What Snowden revealed is what should send Americans out into the streets rioting.

I don't see what the big deal is. All they're doing is recording every call ever made. Who cares if they're listening in on phone sex. It makes us safer!

[2young2vote]

I don't see what the big deal is. All they're doing is recording every call ever made. Who cares if they're listening in on phone sex. It makes us safer!

Always practice safe phone sex.

[56ktarget]

How do you think they got Obamacare passed? They have dirt on that one dude who said "it's not a tax, but a fee...".
Maybe it's because they had a filibuster-proof Congress? Try again.

[Natural Citizen]

Always practice safe phone sex.

And use a small one for crying out loud. :eek: