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francisco
08-11-2014, 03:50 PM
Could any of this get any more bizarre?


US to directly arm Kurdish peshmerga forces in bid to thwart Isis offensive

Weaponry, said to be light arms and ammunition, to be brokered though CIA who are better positioned to supply militia

The Obama administration has announced it will arm the militia forces of Iraqi Kurdistan, to prevent the fall of the final bastion of pro-US territory in Iraq.

The weaponry is said to be light arms and ammunition, brokered not through the Department of Defense – which supplies Baghdad and its security forces with heavy weaponry – but the CIA, which is better positioned to supply the Kurdish peshmerga with Russian-made guns like AK-47s that the US military does not use. The news was first reported by the Associated Press.


Read more:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/11/us-arm-peshmerga-iraq-kurdistan-isis

dannno
08-11-2014, 04:02 PM
How is it bizarre?

Read this sometime.

http://www.amazon.com/Foreign-Policy-Freedom-Commerce-Friendship/dp/0912453001

acptulsa
08-11-2014, 04:08 PM
How is it bizarre?

They told us the CIA was supplying Russian weapons, making it harder for them to blame it all on Russia later when things go wrong.

Zippyjuan
08-11-2014, 04:18 PM
The Iraqi army has used Russian weapons for decades. They are already trained on them and are compatable with what other weapons they have.

dannno
08-11-2014, 04:21 PM
They told us the CIA was supplying Russian weapons, making it harder for them to blame it all on Russia later when things go wrong.

Ahh, zippy just informed us that this is an on-going strategy.

acptulsa
08-11-2014, 04:22 PM
The Iraqi army has used Russian weapons for decades. They are already trained on them and are compatable with what other weapons they have.

The Kurds are not the traditional backbone of the Iraqi army.


Ahh, zippy just informed us that this is an on-going strategy.

Well, I expect he would be the one to ask...

TheCount
08-11-2014, 05:02 PM
The Kurds are not the traditional backbone of the Iraqi army.

Every place in the world other than North America and Europe have been using Russian and Russian-derived weaponry for decades. It's the standard.

If you tried to give them some M-16s they would probably look at you like you were crazy.

fr33
08-12-2014, 01:40 AM
AKs win wars.

Constitutional Paulicy
08-12-2014, 04:26 AM
Iraqi Small Arms...


http://grab.by/znOM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_equipment_of_the_Iraqi_Army#Small_ arms

Keith and stuff
08-12-2014, 09:18 AM
The US federal government is directly supporting all three sides in the Iraqi Civil War. No surprise there :( The weapons and equipment has to be sold so that more can be made.

HOLLYWOOD
08-12-2014, 09:50 AM
Charlie Wilson's "War" in Afghanistan against the Russians... the US politicians and CIA armed Mujahideen/Taliban/Gulbuddin Hekmatyar groups with Russian Kalashnikovs (AK-47) and Stingers, and whatever, which were laundered through Egypt so they couldn't be tracked.

Oh, let's not forget John McCain "light" Rorhbacher





http://www.motherjones.com/files/imagecache/master-image-main/Rohrabacher_300x200.jpg

Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA 48thdistrict)
with his Kalashnikov AK-47 in Afghanistan

enhanced_deficit
08-12-2014, 10:43 AM
Charlie Wilson's "War" in Afghanistan against the Russians... the US politicians and CIA armed Mujahideen/Taliban/Gulbuddin Hekmatyar groups with Russian Kalashnikovs (AK-47) and Stingers, and whatever, which were laundered through Egypt so they couldn't be tracked.

Oh, let's not forget John McCain "light" Rorhbacher

http://www.motherjones.com/files/imagecache/master-image-main/Rohrabacher_300x200.jpg

Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA 48thdistrict)
with his Kalashnikov AK-47 in Afghanistan

I was gonna saysame.

Seems like a template. Russian weapons were supplied to Afghan Jihadis (much of those procured from Israel who used to be old Russsian ally and then became second largest suppliear of weapons to violent Ismalist Jihadis who were killing Russian infidels, US being the largest supplier of weapons).

69360
08-12-2014, 11:36 AM
I'm actually ok with this.

Oh and the AK-47 really is the best rifle for a place like Iraq. It fires no matter what more or less, where an M4/AR15 needs to be kept up with.

Uriel999
08-12-2014, 12:41 PM
I'm actually ok with this.

Oh and the AK-47 really is the best rifle for a place like Iraq. It fires no matter what more or less, where an M4/AR15 needs to be kept up with.

that is a myth. My trusty dragon slayer (M16A4) here in the stan has been just fine. I have never had a jam in any of the 4 deserts on 3 continents I have shot the platform on.

The AK is not as reliable as people say and still requires regular maintenance. The M16/4 platform requires less maintenance than people think. I'd bet if they were offered the M16/4 platform they would jump all over it. The AK isn't a bad weapon, but the legend about it's reliability is just as much as myth as the myth that the m16/4 is jamomatic in the desert.

Pericles
08-12-2014, 12:45 PM
Every place in the world other than North America and Europe have been using Russian and Russian-derived weaponry for decades. It's the standard.

If you tried to give them some M-16s they would probably look at you like you were crazy.

maybe that explains what happened to the Iraqi army, rather than the fact that the US disbanded it, and then tried to recreate an army in its image.

Uriel999
08-12-2014, 12:59 PM
I really want to watch some generation kill now...

alucard13mm
08-12-2014, 01:10 PM
I really want to watch some generation kill now...

Why cant we invade a fun country where girls wear bikinis? Damn it.

Uriel999
08-12-2014, 01:38 PM
Why cant we invade a fun country where girls wear bikinis? Damn it.

lol, great reference and I'd bet even Ron Paul would support that! I mean, what man wouldn't.

alucard13mm
08-12-2014, 02:01 PM
lol, great reference and I'd bet even Ron Paul would support that! I mean, what man wouldn't.

Id like a spin off series for captain america.

devil21
08-12-2014, 03:01 PM
Anyone remember the 600,000 AK magazines procured by the US Army?

http://www.infowars.com/u-s-army-buys-nearly-600000-soviet-ak-47-magazines/

AngryCanadian
08-12-2014, 03:36 PM
Kurdistan has Oil thats the only real interest American Gov has in Kurds.

Barrex
08-12-2014, 03:39 PM
that is a myth. My trusty dragon slayer (M16A4) here in the stan has been just fine. I have never had a jam in any of the 4 deserts on 3 continents I have shot the platform on.

The AK is not as reliable as people say and still requires regular maintenance. The M16/4 platform requires less maintenance than people think. I'd bet if they were offered the M16/4 platform they would jump all over it. The AK isn't a bad weapon, but the legend about it's reliability is just as much as myth as the myth that the m16/4 is jamomatic in the desert.

Funny, my cousin and most of the soldiers that were in war that I know, and I know a lot of them, say exactly the opposite: Soldiers prefer AKs and would throw away their M16s to take AKs.

*there are a lot of versions and a lot of countries that produce AKs. Those produced in Africa are of bad quality because metal that is used is of bad quality.

Pericles
08-12-2014, 04:23 PM
Funny, my cousin and most of the soldiers that were in war that I know, and I know a lot of them, say exactly the opposite: Soldiers prefer AKs and would throw away their M16s to take AKs.

*there are a lot of versions and a lot of countries that produce AKs. Those produced in Africa are of bad quality because metal that is used is of bad quality.


When both sides are poorly trained, I see 4 to 5 dead guys with AKs to every dead guy with an AR.

When the side with the ARs resembles a real military organization the ratio increases to 10 to 20 dead guys with AKs for every dead guy with an AR.

Demigod
08-12-2014, 04:50 PM
When both sides are poorly trained, I see 4 to 5 dead guys with AKs to every dead guy with an AR.

When the side with the ARs resembles a real military organization the ratio increases to 10 to 20 dead guys with AKs for every dead guy with an AR.

And where are you seeing all of this ?

TheCount
08-12-2014, 05:09 PM
maybe that explains what happened to the Iraqi army, rather than the fact that the US disbanded it, and then tried to recreate an army in its image.

No, what happened to the Iraqi army is that in middle eastern cultures (horrible generalizations), loyalty to one's immediate family, tribe, sect, etc. holds more importance than loyalty to country, employer, profession, etcetc. You can't ask them to police or fight 'their own' and expect them to actually follow through.

pcosmar
08-12-2014, 05:11 PM
When both sides are poorly trained, I see 4 to 5 dead guys with AKs to every dead guy with an AR.

When the side with the ARs resembles a real military organization the ratio increases to 10 to 20 dead guys with AKs for every dead guy with an AR.

Well after the artillery barrage and air strikes have taken out most, and guys that are heavily armored go against folks with no armor at all,,, that is likely.

They can pretty well mop up the shell shocked remains.

The M16 was a piece of shit in the 70s when I used them,, and yes,, I could keep it running..
I have some mechanical ability. I saw a lot of jammed rifles.

I lubed the shit out of mine,, and lubed it every magazine..

"never shit where you eat" The M16/AR does.. It dumps gas on the bolt and in it's throat,
It is no wonder that several companies make Piston refits for it,, and every manufacturer is making a Gas piston model.
it is and always has been a bad design.

Barrex
08-13-2014, 03:41 AM
When both sides are poorly trained, I see 4 to 5 dead guys with AKs to every dead guy with an AR.

When the side with the ARs resembles a real military organization the ratio increases to 10 to 20 dead guys with AKs for every dead guy with an AR.

Well after the artillery barrage and air strikes have taken out most, and guys that are heavily armored go against folks with no armor at all,,, that is likely.

They can pretty well mop up the shell shocked remains.

Uriel999
08-14-2014, 03:20 PM
Funny, my cousin and most of the soldiers that were in war that I know, and I know a lot of them, say exactly the opposite: Soldiers prefer AKs and would throw away their M16s to take AKs.

*there are a lot of versions and a lot of countries that produce AKs. Those produced in Africa are of bad quality because metal that is used is of bad quality.

Well you said soldiers...there is the problem.

TheCount
08-14-2014, 03:53 PM
Kurdistan has Oil thats the only real interest American Gov has in Kurds.

We're so super interested in their oil that we're not letting them sell it to us (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/12/us-kurdistan-oil-usa-idUSKBN0GC22C20140812).

pcosmar
08-14-2014, 03:57 PM
We're so super interested in their oil that we're not letting them sell it to us (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/12/us-kurdistan-oil-usa-idUSKBN0GC22C20140812).

That is one more reason I am skeptical of the present rhetoric.

devil21
08-14-2014, 04:06 PM
We're so super interested in their oil that we're not letting them sell it to us (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/12/us-kurdistan-oil-usa-idUSKBN0GC22C20140812).

Did you read the article? Lawsuits have been filed regarding the ownership of Kurd oil and the purchasers are not buying until that is resolved, lest they be hit with huge liabilities at a later date. Has nothing to do with "letting them sell it to us." The ownership of the oil is in dispute and the prudent business decision is to not purchase assets while the title of that asset is in dispute.

francisco
08-14-2014, 04:13 PM
Why cant we invade a fun country where girls wear bikinis? Damn it.

What do you think they're wearing under those burkas? Maybe less than you think.;)

On edit: ask cajun about this...


...And brings to mind the expression "camel's nose under the tent"

TheCount
08-14-2014, 04:15 PM
Did you read the article? Lawsuits have been filed regarding the ownership of Kurd oil and the purchasers are not buying until that is resolved, lest they be hit with huge liabilities at a later date. Has nothing to do with "letting them sell it to us." The ownership of the oil is in dispute and the prudent business decision is to not purchase assets while the title of that asset is in dispute.

If the US government recognized the KRG, it would instantly settle the issue.

devil21
08-14-2014, 04:27 PM
If the US government recognized the KRG, it would instantly settle the issue.

How so? The article says (for whatever that's worth) that Kurd oil sales aren't banned by the US gov't in the first place. The refusal to purchase is a civil litigation matter.

TheCount
08-14-2014, 04:44 PM
How so? The article says (for whatever that's worth) that Kurd oil sales aren't banned by the US gov't in the first place. The refusal to purchase is a civil litigation matter.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


The two known U.S. buyers of Kurdish crude oil have now rejected delivery of cargoes from tankers near New Jersey and Texas, saying they will not make further purchases until it is determined who has the right to sell the oil: the central government of Iraq or the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG).

devil21
08-14-2014, 04:57 PM
There's no gov't restriction on KRG oil being purchased by US companies. Keep moving the goal posts dude.

TheCount
08-14-2014, 05:00 PM
There's no gov't restriction on KRG oil being purchased by US companies. Keep moving the goal posts dude.

The only reason that the Iraqi government has a possible claim on the oil is because the region is part of Iraq. If Kurdistan was independent from Iraq, it's fucking obvious that the Iraqi government would have no claim to ownership of the oil. I don't know how I could possibly make it any more clear than that.

devil21
08-14-2014, 05:12 PM
The only reason that the Iraqi government has a possible claim on the oil is because the region is part of Iraq. If Kurdistan was independent from Iraq, it's fucking obvious that the Iraqi government would have no claim to ownership of the oil. I don't know how I could possibly make it any more clear than that.

And the goal posts move again. Now your argument is the dispute over the ownership of the oil is because an entire new country inside of Iraq hasn't been formed yet and if only a new country existed there would be no legal dispute? Ok well how can I argue with logic like that....

TheCount
08-14-2014, 05:29 PM
And the goal posts move again. Now your argument is the dispute over the ownership of the oil is because an entire new country inside of Iraq hasn't been formed yet and if only a new country existed there would be no legal dispute? Ok well how can I argue with logic like that....

Both AngryCanadian and I referred to the area as Kurdistan. If you're unable to comprehend the conversation, that's not my problem.

devil21
08-14-2014, 05:40 PM
Both AngryCanadian and I referred to the area as Kurdistan. If you're unable to comprehend the conversation, that's not my problem.

You posted the article and claimed it said something that it didn't. That's all. It's ok to be wrong.

TheCount
08-14-2014, 05:40 PM
You posted the article and claimed it said something that it didn't. That's all. It's ok to be wrong.

I'm not sure what you're butthurt about, but it's hilarious.

devil21
08-14-2014, 05:44 PM
I'm not sure what you're butthurt about, but it's hilarious.

Me? Butthurt? Naaa, I just enjoying screwing with your kind.