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aGameOfThrones
08-11-2014, 03:08 PM
MAN AND WOMAN CONVICTED OF KEEPING TWO YOUNG FEMALE RELATIVES MALNOURISHED AND LOCKED INSIDE UNSANITARY MOBILE HOME

FULLERTON – A man and woman were convicted yesterday of keeping two young female relatives malnourished and locked inside an unsanitary mobile home without letting them go outside. Lester Louis Huffmire and his wife Petra Huffmire, both 41 from Anaheim, pleaded guilty yesterday, Aug. 5, 2014, to two felony counts of child abuse, two misdemeanor counts of false imprisonment, one misdemeanor count of contributing to delinquency of a minor, and sentencing enhancements for great bodily injury. Lester Huffmire was sentenced to five years in state prison. Petra Huffmire was sentenced to three years and four months in state prison.

Lester Huffmire and Petra Huffmire were living in an unsanitary mobile park home with the victims, 10-year-old Jane Doe #1 and 5-year-old Jane Doe #2. The defendants had a duty of care to the victims.

Between May 21, 2010, and May 20, 2013, the defendants kept the mobile park home unsanitary and uninhabitable, including kitchen appliances covered in mold and cobwebs, stacks of trash, debris, mold, and feces throughout the home, a pile of used condoms under a stuffed teddy bear, and inoperable toilets. They kept the mobile park home in this condition while Jane Doe #1 and Jane Doe #2 lived there. Lester Huffmire and Petra Huffmire were unemployed and played an online computer game, World of Warcraft, all day.

The defendants did not let the victims out of the home for any reason. They kept the victims from attending school.

On May 20, 2013, after a call from a neighbor, an officer from the Anaheim Police Department went to the home to conduct a welfare check and found the two victims with dirt crusted on their feet, matted hair, damaged teeth beyond repair, and malnourished.

Deputy District Attorney Lori Smith of the Family Protection Unit prosecuted this case.


http://www.orangecountyda.com/home/index.asp?page=8&recordid=4082&returnurl=index.asp%3Fpage%3D8

Philhelm
08-11-2014, 03:16 PM
In the game world, they were probably some form of nobility, and of great importance to the realm.

presence
08-11-2014, 03:18 PM
Sucks... but none of the government's business.

aGameOfThrones
08-11-2014, 03:22 PM
same crime, but no equal treatment in the sentencing.

PRB
08-11-2014, 03:59 PM
how dare the government tell parents how to take care of their children!

Philhelm
08-11-2014, 04:01 PM
how dare the government tell parents how to take care of their children!

I don't even think that they were their children, as they were referred to as "relatives."

PRB
08-11-2014, 04:06 PM
I don't even think that they were their children, as they were referred to as "relatives."

Unless their parents complained, it's none of the government's business.

dannno
08-11-2014, 04:27 PM
Kids should have rights too, they should be able to decide if they want to continue living there or not.

It is reasonable for parents or parental figures to put limits and rules on their kids, but at the end of the day if the child doesn't want to be there they shouldn't have to. I don't necessarily think they should be charged with kidnapping, or negligence, but the kids should be allowed to leave and they should have always known that was an option.

pcosmar
08-11-2014, 04:43 PM
In the game world, they were probably some form of nobility, and of great importance to the realm.

Doubts.

I do wonder where their income came from.. they apparently had computers,, internet connection and game time.
(WoW is not Free)

TheCount
08-11-2014, 04:48 PM
Doubts. I do wonder where their income came from.. they apparently had computers,, internet connection and game time. (WoW is not Free) You can make money in wow. I know people who play EVE and make their entire income from the game.

aGameOfThrones
08-11-2014, 04:51 PM
http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpc9yzaWsn1qmn7mjo1_500.gif

familydog
08-11-2014, 04:57 PM
Sucks... but none of the government's business.

Correct. Imprisonment and starvation are okay, as long as it's children.

PRB
08-11-2014, 05:05 PM
Correct. Imprisonment and starvation are okay, as long as it's children.

as long as they are YOUR children. to say otherwise allows government to force parents to act in a way which government decides.

familydog
08-11-2014, 05:14 PM
as long as they are YOUR children. to say otherwise allows government to force parents to act in a way which government decides.

I see. So children have no rights until they turn the age of majority...the age set by government.

dannno
08-11-2014, 05:18 PM
Doubts.

I do wonder where their income came from.. they apparently had computers,, internet connection and game time.
(WoW is not Free)

They were on welfare, literally all they had were computers, internet connection and game time. Their kitchen appliances had cobwebs and there was feces everywhere.

dannno
08-11-2014, 05:19 PM
as long as they are YOUR children. to say otherwise allows government to force parents to act in a way which government decides.

Children aren't property.

VoluntaryAmerican
08-11-2014, 05:23 PM
Even in an Ancap society there would likely be repercussions for these parents.

If they broke the NAP by mistreating their kids, theyre unfit to take care of them. The kids should be given to relatives if their lives are in jeopardy.

PRB
08-11-2014, 05:24 PM
I see. So children have no rights until they turn the age of majority...the age set by government.

"Children have rights" is the bullshit ideology invented by liberals and communists to justify child protective services, child support and other government intrusions on the family. This is why our country is so backwards, the government wastes money defending children while punishing parents, the opposite of what a free and Christian society should be doing, which is honor parents and allow parents to control their children.

PRB
08-11-2014, 05:26 PM
Even in an Ancap society there would likely be repercussions for these parents.


I never understood that. How do ancap societies have authority to rule over the parents?

there's only 2 ways :

1) consent- so people who did not consent are immune
2) force - which is no better than now



If they broke the NAP by mistreating their kids, theyre unfit to take care of them. The kids should be given to relatives if their lives are in jeopardy.

Does an ancap soceity force anybody and everybody to abide by the NAP, regardless of whether they agree to?

PRB
08-11-2014, 05:27 PM
Children aren't property.

No, they are not. That doesn't mean it's the government's business to get in the parent's way.

dannno
08-11-2014, 05:27 PM
"Children have rights" is the bullshit ideology invented by liberals and communists to justify child protective services, child support and other government intrusions on the family. This is why our country is so backwards, the government wastes money defending children while punishing parents, the opposite of what a free and Christian society should be doing, which is honor parents and allow parents to control their children.

No the problem is those groups supersede the kid's rights with government force and they end up stealing them away from the parents and don't give them a say in their future.

The truth is sometimes growing up with shitty parents is your best option - no relatives or friends who can help out and the only other option is giving the kids to the government. I think kids should be able to make the decision, not the courts.

PRB
08-11-2014, 05:27 PM
They were on welfare, literally all they had were computers, internet connection and game time. Their kitchen appliances had cobwebs and there was feces everywhere.

exactly, not much money needed.

PRB
08-11-2014, 05:28 PM
No the problem is those groups supersede the kid's rights with government force and they end up stealing them away from the parents and don't give them a say in their future.

The truth is sometimes growing up with shitty parents is your best option - no relatives or friends who can help out and the only other option is giving the kids to the government. I think kids should be able to make the decision, not the courts.

ain't that the truth!

familydog
08-11-2014, 05:29 PM
"Children have rights" is the bullshit ideology invented by liberals and communists to justify child protective services, child support and other government intrusions on the family. This is why our country is so backwards, the government wastes money defending children while punishing parents, the opposite of what a free and Christian society should be doing, which is honor parents and allow parents to control their children.

To deny that children have rights is to deny that children are human. Do you have any basis for your wild claims?

VoluntaryAmerican
08-11-2014, 05:37 PM
I never understood that. How do ancap societies have authority to rule over the parents?

there's only 2 ways :

1) consent- so people who did not consent are immune
2) force - which is no better than now

Does an ancap soceity force anybody and everybody to abide by the NAP, regardless of whether they agree to?

Of course through force.

Theres no one answer for that when speculating how Ancap could work in this situation. For example a grandparent could hire someone to take the children or a protection firm fine print could include not abusing your children for x reason or a non profit could fill this purpose of protecting children.

VoluntaryAmerican
08-11-2014, 05:41 PM
No the problem is those groups supersede the kid's rights with government force and they end up stealing them away from the parents and don't give them a say in their future.

The truth is sometimes growing up with shitty parents is your best option - no relatives or friends who can help out and the only other option is giving the kids to the government. I think kids should be able to make the decision, not the courts.

Agreed with one caveat. Some children arent capable of this decision and the burden naturally falls on all those relatives/people who can accept the burden of raising the kid until a decision can be made.

Christian Liberty
08-11-2014, 05:47 PM
I'm generally more on the "parent's rights" side of things where there are actually disputes. Some people believe conversion therapy or spanking are harmful, but I recognize the parents right to do those things. But no parent has a right to seriously abuse or neglect their child. Yes, ideally any form of child protection would be free market but while the government does exist I'm not going to complain about them arresting an abuser.

If there were absolutely no governmental authority at all of any kind you could put a bullet in these types of parents and get away with it. The government will prevent you from doing so. So, the whole "government should stay neutral" argument does not work in these types of cases. The same is true with abortion.

Christian Liberty
08-11-2014, 05:49 PM
Even if kids are making the decision, someone would have to use force to prevent the parents from preventing the kids from making the decision. And I think the quality of the parents does matter. I don't agree with the Rothbardian view that kids can run away from home for any reason and that it is wrong for parents who are doing their jobs to prevent them from doing so.

Anti Federalist
08-11-2014, 06:12 PM
Anaheim Police Department went to the home to conduct a welfare check

I wonder how much longer it will be before random "welfare checks" become mandatory?

Christian Liberty
08-11-2014, 06:26 PM
I wonder how much longer it will be before random "welfare checks" become mandatory?

I didn't immediately notice that, but yeah, if that was a random welfare check than I have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with child abusers being prosecuted.

TheTexan
08-11-2014, 06:32 PM
I didn't immediately notice that, but yeah, if that was a random welfare check than I have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with child abusers being prosecuted.

It probably wasn't random. The school probably reported it, and good thing they did:


They kept the victims from attending school.

It's very fortunate that our schools are set up to mandate and track attendance like it is, or their crimes would have probably gone unnoticed.

Philhelm
08-11-2014, 07:52 PM
Obviously the children kept dying in the Dread Caves of Nagashazzar, causing their party to fail against the Ghoul King. The husband and wife finally booted them from the party and neglected them. The children probably should have taken up a craft, such as hunting, in order to feed themselves.

bolil
08-11-2014, 08:04 PM
Yeah, These people were obviously derelict in their duties as parents, it is clear they had no desire to BE parents. I think Mr. Rothbard had it right when he pointed out that if we lived in a free society, these parents could have simply sold these children they obviously had no affection for (for game minutes) to someone(s) who desired children. (People who don't want children exchanging them to people who do, and those who do want kids would gladly pay to get them out of a situation like this).Obviously, this wouldn't legitimize the sale of children for sex, slavery, or other bullshit.

Furthermore, because some scumbags might neglect their children we need to accept the monolithic power of the state? Meh, tell that to all the dead un's over seas.

TheCount
08-11-2014, 08:39 PM
Obviously, this wouldn't legitimize the sale of children for sex, slavery, or other bullshit.

I can confine children, malnourish them, imperil their health, neglect them in various other ways, and sell them as property, but I can't make them work or stick my dick in them?

pcosmar
08-11-2014, 08:39 PM
Yeah, These people were obviously derelict in their duties as parents, it is clear they had no desire to BE parents. I think Mr. Rothbard had it right when he pointed out that if we lived in a free society, these parents could have simply sold these children they obviously had no affection for (for game minutes) to someone(s) who desired children.

Gaahh!

I think this is why I would prefer a tribal society. The children would be cared for by the tribe,, and the parents shunned.

Original_Intent
08-11-2014, 08:40 PM
Children aren't property.

Neither are they the governments property nor anyone else's business.

This is definitely one of those "camel's nose under the tent" issues. I hate to say it, but it would be better for a few children to die due to neglect or abuse, than for the government to be able to take people's children, and the parents be presumed guilty until proven innocent.

And y'all are fee to think I am a monster. I raised two awesome sons, now aged 20 and 17, and if ANYONE had ever intervened between me and them, rather "just doing their job" or not, one of us would not have been walking out of the room.

Is there a happy medium where children's lives can be protected, but an innocent parents rights are also protected? Not that I have seen.

Natural Citizen
08-11-2014, 08:43 PM
I can confine children, malnourish them, imperil their health, neglect them in various other ways, and sell them as property, but I can't make them work or stick my dick in them?

Huh?

TheCount
08-11-2014, 08:49 PM
Huh?

I thought my question was quite clear.

PRB
08-11-2014, 09:42 PM
I wonder how much longer it will be before random "welfare checks" become mandatory?

Yep, would've been much better if they never checked, they'd never know, it'd be ten years before some angel saves the poor souls from captivity, as we saw in the Ariel Castro case. We love our freedoms and privacies, it's none of the government's business if adults choose to abuse their relatives, as long as their parents didn't complain or file charges.

Anti Federalist
08-11-2014, 09:49 PM
I didn't immediately notice that, but yeah, if that was a random welfare check than I have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with child abusers being prosecuted.

Well, gotta find those child abusers to prosecute, so, random home checks coming up.

phill4paul
08-11-2014, 09:51 PM
Obviously the children kept dying in the Dread Caves of Nagashazzar, causing their party to fail against the Ghoul King. The husband and wife finally booted them from the party and neglected them. The children probably should have taken up a craft, such as hunting, in order to feed themselves.

If children are not for supporting the parents then they are a drag and should be left behind.

dannno
08-11-2014, 09:52 PM
Neither are they the governments property nor anyone else's business.

This is definitely one of those "camel's nose under the tent" issues. I hate to say it, but it would be better for a few children to die due to neglect or abuse, than for the government to be able to take people's children, and the parents be presumed guilty until proven innocent.

And y'all are fee to think I am a monster. I raised two awesome sons, now aged 20 and 17, and if ANYONE had ever intervened between me and them, rather "just doing their job" or not, one of us would not have been walking out of the room.

Is there a happy medium where children's lives can be protected, but an innocent parents rights are also protected? Not that I have seen.

I agree with pretty much all that, too, especially the part about them not belonging to the govt.

PRB
08-11-2014, 09:58 PM
Well, gotta find those child abusers to prosecute, so, random home checks coming up.

Exactly, people keep falling for the government scam, to protect children, the easiest way to win hearts of otherwise good citizens, tell them it's to punish child abusers and prevent child abuse, that'll get people to support random checks and violations of privacy.

just look at what they did to Michael Jackson's place.

No home in this country is free from destruction when even Michael Jackson's mansion can be raided and trashed based on ONE accusation.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-530257/Tumbledown-abandoned-The-ruins-Michael-Jacksons-Neverland.html
http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/10/neverland-ranch-the-raid-photos-two/
http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/37091206.html

Dianne
08-11-2014, 10:02 PM
You can make money in wow. I know people who play EVE and make their entire income from the game.

What is EVE?

PRB
08-11-2014, 10:08 PM
What is EVE?
http://www.eveonline.com

2young2vote
08-11-2014, 10:44 PM
What is EVE?

Unless you have the patience of a slug slugging around the world, don't even start playing it.

Christian Liberty
08-11-2014, 11:01 PM
Well, gotta find those child abusers to prosecute, so, random home checks coming up.

Don't misunderstand me, freedom REQUIRES that some people will get away with heinous crimes. That's going to happen. THe sooner our society can grow up and deal with that instead of being emotional about it, the better.

But, let's consider this. Let's say you (a civilian, not a cop) figure out that children are being abused. Say you're walking by, the window happens to be open, and you see it happening. So you call the cops (Yes, I know they very likely will be useless, but I'm going with an ideal scenario here.) The cops swing by the house, and sure enough, the kids are being abused.

Some people would say you have to turn a blind eye to it because "parents rights." I strongly disagree.

On the other hand, if someone is smoking pot, gambling, owning an automatic weapon, or "speeding", they shouldn't get charged even if they get caught. It isn't just a matter of unenforceability, its because the crimes are victimless. Child abuse is not.

And yes, I understand that the government's just-us system can't be trusted for crap. But that's no more a reason to make child abuse legal than murder, rape, or theft.

amy31416
08-11-2014, 11:09 PM
These assholes should be beaten repeatedly with a bar of soap in a sock--these kind of people are a big part of the reason that we have all these shit laws that harm good parents like Mary Godboldo, and many others. In addition to our lovely politicians, we have to start holding our fellow citizens accountable for their actions

Seriously, I don't recommend frozen processed food, but how fucking difficult is it to throw a damn hot pocket in the microwave for a minute and throw it at the kid? Fucking sociopaths.

amy31416
08-11-2014, 11:09 PM
These assholes should be beaten repeatedly with a bar of soap in a sock--these kind of people are a big part of the reason that we have all these shit laws that harm good parents like Mary Godboldo, and many others. In addition to our lovely politicians, we have to start holding our fellow citizens accountable for their actions

Seriously, I don't recommend frozen processed food, but how fucking difficult is it to throw a damn hot pocket in the microwave for a minute and throw it at the kid? Fucking sociopaths.

amy31416
08-11-2014, 11:11 PM
For the record, I'm also not recommending that anyone throw hot pockets at children.

Anti Federalist
08-11-2014, 11:17 PM
For the record, I'm also not recommending that anyone throw hot pockets at children.

Well, I kind of got the idea that the beatings would consist of being dunned by both a hail of soap in socks, and hot pockets.

phill4paul
08-11-2014, 11:17 PM
So if these kids were my neighbors. I witnessed their condition and decided to take them in for my own. Even shooting the parents over their objections. Then..what?

TheTexan
08-11-2014, 11:24 PM
So if these kids were my neighbors. I witnessed their condition and decided to take them in for my own. Even shooting the parents over their objections. Then..what?

You get arrested. Only the government is allowed to do that.

phill4paul
08-11-2014, 11:25 PM
You get arrested. Only the government is allowed to do that.

Ah,damn. Thanks for the warning.

Christian Liberty
08-11-2014, 11:31 PM
So if these kids were my neighbors. I witnessed their condition and decided to take them in for my own. Even shooting the parents over their objections. Then..what?

I wouldn't have a problem with it, personally. Although I'd only shoot the scumbag parents as a last resort. But if they tried to physically prevent you from taking the kids in, I'm absolutely cool with it.

Now "the law" is a different matter, of course. I'd vote to acquit you, but the mathematical odds of someone like me ending up on your jury are extremely low. I've never heard of anyone using jury nullification for "murder." I would, but I doubt any non anarcho-capitalist would.