PDA

View Full Version : The $9000.00 BandAid




tod evans
08-09-2014, 02:56 PM
Hospital charges $9,000 to bandage cut middle finger, report says


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/09/hospital-charges-000-to-bandage-cut-middle-finger-report-says/

A New Jersey teacher said he was charged nearly $9,000 after he showed a cut middle finger to a hospital emergency room aide.

Baer Hanusz-Rajkowski said he went to the Bayonne Medical Center last August after he cut his finger with a hammer and thought he needed stitches. He didn’t. Instead he was sent home after he got a tetanus shot from a nurse practitioner who also sterilized the cut, applied some antibacterial ointment to it, and put a bandage on it.

Then he got the bill: $8,200 for the emergency room visit, $180 for the shot, $242 for the bandage and $8 for the ointment, plus hundreds of dollars for the nurse practitioner.

"I got a Band-Aid and a tetanus shot. How could it be $9,000? This is crazy," Hanusz-Rajkowski told NBC 4 New York Wednesday.

The hospital’s CEO Mark Spektor told the station Hanusz-Rajkowski’s visit cost so much because his insurance carrier United Healthcare refuses to offer fair reimbursement rates.

But United Healthcare responded by saying the hospital was just trying to gouge its members.

Linda Schwimmer of the New Jersey Health Care Quality Institute said the right price for getting a finger bandaged should be $400 to $1,000.

She told NBC that New Jersey needs a public database showing the average price for medical procedures.

Root
08-09-2014, 04:07 PM
Hospital charges $9,000 to bandage cut middle finger, report says


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/09/hospital-charges-000-to-bandage-cut-middle-finger-report-says/

A New Jersey teacher said he was charged nearly $9,000 after he showed a cut middle finger to a hospital emergency room aide.

Baer Hanusz-Rajkowski said he went to the Bayonne Medical Center last August after he cut his finger with a hammer and thought he needed stitches. He didn’t. Instead he was sent home after he got a tetanus shot from a nurse practitioner who also sterilized the cut, applied some antibacterial ointment to it, and put a bandage on it.

Then he got the bill: $8,200 for the emergency room visit, $180 for the shot, $242 for the bandage and $8 for the ointment, plus hundreds of dollars for the nurse practitioner.

"I got a Band-Aid and a tetanus shot. How could it be $9,000? This is crazy," Hanusz-Rajkowski told NBC 4 New York Wednesday.

The hospital’s CEO Mark Spektor told the station Hanusz-Rajkowski’s visit cost so much because his insurance carrier United Healthcare refuses to offer fair reimbursement rates.

But United Healthcare responded by saying the hospital was just trying to gouge its members.

Linda Schwimmer of the New Jersey Health Care Quality Institute said the right price for getting a finger bandaged should be $400 to $1,000.

She told NBC that New Jersey needs a public database showing the average price for medical procedures.
I'm in the wrong line of work. I could make a killing at $300 a bandage. I'd do arms and legs too, not just fingers. WTF

presence
08-09-2014, 04:11 PM
I worked a medical booth at a music festival one time. I got $15/hr and bandaged fingers all day for zero cost to those injured beyond the price of admission. I even administered a few illegal stitches behind closed curtains; again no charge.

Dr.3D
08-09-2014, 04:12 PM
I'm in the wrong line of work. I could make a killing at $300 a bandage. I'd do arms and legs too, not just fingers. WTF
That's why it's a closed racket. You need to pay for a degree and then get a license before you can gouge people like that.

TER
08-09-2014, 04:24 PM
That's why it's a closed racket. You need to pay for a degree and then get a license before you can gouge people like that.

Out of that ridiculous hospital charge, the ED doctor got maybe $30.

The teacher should have went to an urgent care center instead of wasting his money going to an Emergency Department for something that wasn't an emergency. Hopefully with the new spread of urgent care centers, people will use the emergency rooms for what they are designed to be, namely for life and death emergencies.

Anti Federalist
08-09-2014, 04:41 PM
Linda Schwimmer of the New Jersey Health Care Quality Institute said the right price for getting a finger bandaged should be $400 to $1,000.
Even that is nuts.

$0.11 for a butterfly bandage.

http://www.firstaidsuppliesonline.com/nav.pl?cat=NavBandage&prod=011990&gdftrk=gdfV25409_a_7c3144_a_7c12115_a_7c11990&gclid=CN2L_eOeh8ACFcZQ7AodyGwAwA

$5.00 for whole tube of anti-biotic dressing.

http://www.walgreens.com/q/antibiotic-creams

$64.00 for a tetanus shot.

http://www.walgreens.com/topic/pharmacy/healthcare-clinic/price-menu.jsp

Or, you could let them do the whole thing:

Minor cut closure with skin adhesive - $150.00 – $185.00

http://www.walgreens.com/topic/pharmacy/healthcare-clinic/price-menu.jsp

Or, even better, put on your big boy pants, cleanse the wound, wrap it up in sterile gauze and duct tape and go about your business.

Dr.3D
08-09-2014, 04:57 PM
Out of that ridiculous hospital charge, the ED doctor got maybe $30.

The teacher should have went to an urgent care center instead of wasting his money going to an Emergency Department for something that wasn't an emergency. Hopefully with the new spread of urgent care centers, people will use the emergency rooms for what they are designed to be, namely for life and death emergencies.
Perhaps the hospitals need to incorporate an urgent care facility into their system so folks who show up with a non life and death problem can get some care at a reasonable price.

DamianTV
08-09-2014, 05:04 PM
How does the wealth get transferred from the poor to the 0.01% again? This would be like getting a $250,000 oil change for your car where the mechanic gets paid minimum wage.

TER
08-09-2014, 05:08 PM
Perhaps the hospitals need to incorporate an urgent care facility into their system so folks who show up with a non life and death problem can get some care at a reasonable price.

Many hospital systems do and many more are in the works to do this. Hopefully this will decrease congestion so that people will real emergencies are not dying in the waiting rooms because of people with little cuts flooding the system.

tangent4ronpaul
08-09-2014, 05:15 PM
You would bring up one of my fav rants....

What is important is not how to pay for it (overpriced medical care), but rather how do we make medical care affordable!

People didn't used to have medical insurance, other than sometimes catastrophic insurance, because medical care was affordable. Then the federal government got involved with it. Now medical costs are threatening to bankrupt the country.


The hospital’s CEO Mark Spektor told the station Hanusz-Rajkowski’s visit cost so much because his insurance carrier United Healthcare refuses to offer fair reimbursement rates.

He's right. but it's all insurance companies, not to mention gvmt reimbursement for medicaid, etc. In fact the gvmt is so bad that many doctors and clinics refuse to treat medicaid patients because they loose money every time they do.


a tetanus shot from a nurse practitioner who also sterilized the cut, applied some antibacterial ointment to it, and put a bandage on it.

Then he got the bill: $8,200 for the emergency room visit, $180 for the shot, $242 for the bandage and $8 for the ointment, plus hundreds of dollars for the nurse practitioner.

"I got a Band-Aid and a tetanus shot. How could it be $9,000? This is crazy," Hanusz-Rajkowski told NBC 4 New York Wednesday.

What should this visit have really cost...

NP's make $25 - $60 hr depending on education, specialty and experience. He was billed hundreds.

The tetanus shot cost $44 a dose according to a CDC price sheet. This is for the FDA "blessed" variety for use on humans. Though I remember a 10 dose MDV going for about $100 not that many years ago. This is after you shell out $70 to a doc for a "permission slip" to purchase it and the syringe and needle. Most docs will not Rx injectables other than insulin because - you know, lawyers and the war on drugs... So lets say the cost if you were to stock some in your supplies would be $114.

Now from a vet supplier, a 10 dose MDV is $45 for the brand name stuff or $17 for generic, so $1.70 - $4.50. That's a significant difference. Do keep in mind that this is a cold ship item and has to e refrigerated. It's got a 1 year shelf life, and this is one of those rare cases where the shelf life is really a hard limit - not gvmt or corporate BS to make you throw out unused drugs and re-order.

couple of swabs to clean up the wound - literally pennies. They throw out unused ones from overpriced single use, disposable procedure trays all day long.

single packet of antibiotic cream - 40-50 cents.

bandaid, for a finger, what 75 cents...

So it actually cost the ER just over $100 to treat the guy. OK, there is overhead. Facilities, INSURANCE, CLERICAL personal to deal with the BS MANDATED paperwork, etc. I'm kinda surprised they didn't MRI him /sarc but only partially so. We have a ER out here that has one of these uber expensive things and if you walk into the ER for any reason you are likely to get scanned, so they can pay for it...

So that's how $100 worth of medical care ends up costing $9,000, but you know, insurance companies and lawyers and paperwork...
Though that $100 worth of care should really cost like $10, but you know, the federal government got involved...

-t

amy31416
08-09-2014, 05:22 PM
Sheesh. I just did that for free a couple of weeks ago, minus the tetanus shot. That would be illegal for me to do.

Dr.3D
08-09-2014, 05:27 PM
Sheesh. I just did that for free a couple of weeks ago, minus the tetanus shot. That would be illegal for me to do.
Yep, if you practice first aid you might find yourself in trouble with the authorities. Strange world we live in isn't it?

tangent4ronpaul
08-09-2014, 05:35 PM
Perhaps the hospitals need to incorporate an urgent care facility into their system so folks who show up with a non life and death problem can get some care at a reasonable price.

They tend to price gouge too (but not as much as a ER or ambulance service). The problem with most of them is they roll up the sidewalk at 9pm. Some are starting to be 24/7. A huge problem with Obamacare is that people use medical care more for every splinter, etc. That means it takes longer to get a doctors apt, so the ER's get slammed as the "instant gratification" est choice - I mean why not - they aren't paying for it...

-t

TER
08-09-2014, 05:43 PM
You would bring up one of my fav rants....

What is important is not how to pay for it (overpriced medical care), but rather how do we make medical care affordable!

People didn't used to have medical insurance, other than sometimes catastrophic insurance, because medical care was affordable. Then the federal government got involved with it. Now medical costs are threatening to bankrupt the country.



He's right. but it's all insurance companies, not to mention gvmt reimbursement for medicaid, etc. In fact the gvmt is so bad that many doctors and clinics refuse to treat medicaid patients because they loose money every time they do.



What should this visit have really cost...

NP's make $25 - $60 hr depending on education, specialty and experience. He was billed hundreds.

The tetanus shot cost $44 a dose according to a CDC price sheet. This is for the FDA "blessed" variety for use on humans. Though I remember a 10 dose MDV going for about $100 not that many years ago. This is after you shell out $70 to a doc for a "permission slip" to purchase it and the syringe and needle. Most docs will not Rx injectables other than insulin because - you know, lawyers and the war on drugs... So lets say the cost if you were to stock some in your supplies would be $114.

Now from a vet supplier, a 10 dose MDV is $45 for the brand name stuff or $17 for generic, so $1.70 - $4.50. That's a significant difference. Do keep in mind that this is a cold ship item and has to e refrigerated. It's got a 1 year shelf life, and this is one of those rare cases where the shelf life is really a hard limit - not gvmt or corporate BS to make you throw out unused drugs and re-order.

couple of swabs to clean up the wound - literally pennies. They throw out unused ones from overpriced single use, disposable procedure trays all day long.

single packet of antibiotic cream - 40-50 cents.

bandaid, for a finger, what 75 cents...

So it actually cost the ER just over $100 to treat the guy. OK, there is overhead. Facilities, INSURANCE, CLERICAL personal to deal with the BS MANDATED paperwork, etc. I'm kinda surprised they didn't MRI him /sarc but only partially so. We have a ER out here that has one of there uber expensive things and if you walk into the ER for any reason you are likely to get scanned, so they can pay for it...

So that's how $100 worth of medical care ends up costing $9,000, but you know, insurance companies and lawyers and paperwork...
Though that $100 worth of care should really cost like $10, but you know, the federal government got involved...

-t

This is a good synopsis. I would only add that the hospital facility costs are what are the bulk of the charges to the patient in the emergency department, and that is because it is expensive to keep such a facility operating 24 hours/day. So while the material costs are low to treat this patient with a small laceration (tetanus/bacitracin/bandage), the cost to the hospital to treat his patient is not $100 but significantly more. This is where the urgent care centers play an important role because the overhead is much much less, therefore the cost to the patient is less.

The other statement you made about ED's scanning everybody 'to make more money' is complete baloney, and I say that as someone who has worked in ED's and directed a couple for years. Trust me that the reason people get scanned so much is directly related to the fear of being sued. Their is absolutely no incentive for an ED doctor to order unnecessary CT scans. It does not make them any more money and it does not make their shift any easier. It is because ED doctors are the most sued doctors in healthcare and until there is malpractice reform, defensive medicine unfortunately will be a reality. In the VA system, where ED doctors have immunity, CT scans are ordered much less and this would be the case as well if there were better protection to the ED doctors.

DamianTV
08-09-2014, 05:43 PM
Oooh, heres a nice price gouging idea. People call 911 because Facebook goes down. Perhaps these places could make even more by treating these types of people with Facebook Withdraw Syndrone, give them a bunch of really expensive placebos (say $9000 for a one pill) and send them about their merry way?

TER
08-09-2014, 05:43 PM
They tend to price gouge too (but not as much as a ER or ambulance service). The problem with most of them is they roll up the sidewalk at 9pm. Some are starting to be 24/7. A huge problem with Obamacare is that people use medical care more for every splinter, etc. That means it takes longer to get a doctors apt, so the ER's get slammed as the "instant gratification" est choice - I mean why not - they aren't paying for it...

-t

Exactly. The prices and the ED crowding epidemic will only worsen because of Obamacare.

tangent4ronpaul
08-09-2014, 05:46 PM
Yep, if you practice first aid you might find yourself in trouble with the authorities. Strange world we live in isn't it?

via licensing and regulation, yes. But it's more about legal liability and insurance. Got help the daycare that gives a kid a aspirin!

Incidentally, it is illegal for anyone not "blessed" to provide first aid in France. You can get arrested for it.

-t

TER
08-09-2014, 05:55 PM
Yep, if you practice first aid you might find yourself in trouble with the authorities. Strange world we live in isn't it?

Should ED doctors be held at the same standard legally as those who practice outside of any licensing board? If you say yes, than great. I am all for someone going to some facility where these practitioners are giving care. Less work for me in the madness! But when they miss the serious diagnosis and the person worsens because the herbal tea and coffee enemas don't work, then they too should know what it means to get a lawsuit against them asking for millions of dollars.

DamianTV
08-09-2014, 06:00 PM
Fast Food Health Care?

tangent4ronpaul
08-09-2014, 06:04 PM
The other statement you made about ED's scanning everybody 'to make more money' is complete baloney, and I say that as someone who has worked in ED's and directed a couple for years. Trust me that the reason people get scanned so much is directly related to the fear of being sued. Their is absolutely no incentive for an ED doctor to order unnecessary CT scans. It does not make them any more money and it does not make their shift any easier. It is because ED doctors are the most sued doctors in healthcare and until there is malpractice reform, defensive medicine unfortunately will be a reality. In the VA system, where ED doctors have immunity, CT scans are ordered much less and this would be the case as well if there were better protection to the ED doctors.

I agree that defensive medicine (legal) is practiced a lot in this country and CYA lab tests along with the privatisation of lab work really drive costs up. That is surely a driving force behind this but we do have a local ER that has one of these multi-million dollar machines and staffs it 24/7 with multiple people. The docs commented that it's routine use was in their protocols and that it cost a lot to operate it...

-t

Dr.3D
08-09-2014, 06:17 PM
So while the material costs are low to treat this patient with a small laceration (tetanus/bacitracin/bandage), the cost to the hospital to treat his patient is not $100 but significantly more.
So what would the hospital do if these people didn't show up on their doorstep? I mean, the costs are still there, even if these folks are not there to pay them.

Doesn't it cost the same for the hospital if that person doesn't show up with his cut finger? The lights are still on, the same people who are there all night are getting paid the same. So what is the significantly more cost part of this equation?

Dr.3D
08-09-2014, 06:19 PM
Should ED doctors be held at the same standard legally as those who practice outside of any licensing board? If you say yes, than great. I am all for someone going to some facility where these practitioners are giving care. Less work for me in the madness! But when they miss the serious diagnosis and the person worsens because the herbal tea and coffee enemas don't work, then they too should know what it means to get a lawsuit against them asking for millions of dollars.
Should I go to jail because I applied a Band-aid to someone's finger? As it is now, if someone cuts their finger, I just give them the band-aid and let them put it on, thus avoiding my practicing medicine without a license.

TER
08-09-2014, 06:20 PM
I agree that defensive medicine (legal) is practiced a lot in this country and CYA lab tests along with the privatisation of lab work really drive costs up. That is surely a driving force behind this but we do have a local ER that has one of these multi-million dollar machines and staffs it 24/7 with multiple people. The docs commented that it's routine use was in their protocols and that it cost a lot to operate it...

-t

I'm sure it is costly to operate, but it does not benefit the ED to operate it or charge for it, but rather the radiology department. And if they even suggested to the Emergency Department personnel to do more scans because of it, they would be breaking many ethical codes as well as breaking numerous federal and state laws which could cost the hospital possible tens of millions of dollars and likely the firing of many department heads.

The radiology department in conjunction with the hospital board most probably looked at their census at the time, how many scans they normally do, how such a machine might bring in more patients because of the superior technology, and whether it was a worthwhile investment which they apparently thought it was. This is the normal process. The ED doctors like the new machine the because it is better technology, but the reason they use it is not to pay for the machine costs (which is furthest from the mind of the doctor at the time), but so that they can approach a misdiagnosis rate as close to zero as possible so that they do not get sued and possible lose their livelihood.

TER
08-09-2014, 06:21 PM
So what would the hospital do if these people didn't show up on their doorstep? I mean, the costs are still there, even if these folks are not there to pay them.

Doesn't it cost the same for the hospital if that person doesn't show up with his cut finger? The lights are still on, the same people who are there all night are getting paid the same. So what is the significantly more cost part of this equation?

The budget is made at the beginning of the year based on what the expected census will be.

Dr.3D
08-09-2014, 06:23 PM
The budget is made at the beginning of the year based on what the expected census will be.
Exactly, it doesn't cost them anything more in overhead to bandage that guys finger.

TER
08-09-2014, 06:23 PM
Should I go to jail because I applied a Band-aid to someone's finger? As it is now, if someone cuts their finger, I just give them the band-aid and let them put it on, thus avoiding my practicing medicine without a license.

By all means, put on the bandaide. If they get an infection, should they be able to sue you for thousands of dollars? Because that is what happens when an ED doctor does it.

Dr.3D
08-09-2014, 06:25 PM
By all means, put on the bandaide. If they get an infection, should they be able to sue you for thousands of dollars? Because that is what happens when an ED doctor does it.
Another reason I let them put it on for themselves.

thoughtomator
08-09-2014, 06:26 PM
Linda Schwimmer of the New Jersey Health Care Quality Institute said the right price for getting a finger bandaged should be $400 to $1,000.

How many people here would voluntarily pay $400 for getting a finger bandaged?

How many people here would voluntarily pay $100 for getting a finger bandaged?

How many people here would voluntarily pay $50 for getting a finger bandaged?

...

When I start hearing ayes then we'll know we got to the right price.

TER
08-09-2014, 06:26 PM
Another reason I let them put it on for themselves.

Unfortunately, I don't have that luxury.

Dr.3D
08-09-2014, 06:27 PM
How many people here would voluntarily pay $400 for getting a finger bandaged?

How many people here would voluntarily pay $100 for getting a finger bandaged?

How many people here would voluntarily pay $50 for getting a finger bandaged?

...

When I start hearing ayes then we'll know we got to the right price.
Well, somebody has to put up the money for the malpractice insurance.

TER
08-09-2014, 06:28 PM
How many people here would voluntarily pay $400 for getting a finger bandaged?

How many people here would voluntarily pay $100 for getting a finger bandaged?

How many people here would voluntarily pay $50 for getting a finger bandaged?

...

When I start hearing ayes then we'll know we got to the right price.

Then he shouldn't have went to the ED. What is the cost he afflicted taking care away from someone who needed it more? Maybe little. Maybe a lot.

TER
08-09-2014, 06:30 PM
Well, somebody has to put up the money for the malpractice insurance.

Unfortunately this is the case.

But the truth is that the doctor paid a lot more then the patient with the cut did for the malpractice insurance.

Dr.3D
08-09-2014, 06:32 PM
Unfortunately this is the case.

But the truth is that the doctor paid a lot more then the patient with the cut did for the malpractice insurance.

I have a hunch the cost is pretty much divided up between all the patients.

TER
08-09-2014, 06:38 PM
I have a hunch the cost is pretty much divided up between all the patients.

Malpractice insurance costs a hundred thousand dollars and more. The doctor pays it. If he didn't have to pay so much for malpractice, then the costs to the patients would be less.

Dr.3D
08-09-2014, 06:43 PM
Malpractice insurance costs a hundred thousand dollars and more. The doctor pays it. If he didn't have to pay so much for malpractice, then the costs to the patients would be less.
I'm well aware of that.

tangent4ronpaul
08-09-2014, 07:38 PM
Malpractice insurance costs a hundred thousand dollars and more. The doctor pays it. If he didn't have to pay so much for malpractice, then the costs to the patients would be less.

100,000 / 2080 = $48 hr.
Lets say he sees 4 people an hour, on average.
That should add $12 to each patients bill.

I'm really against malpractice insurance. It shouldn't be there. You have someone there trying to help you, not a way for you to get rich quick.

I'm all for immunity for medical providers, but on a 3 strikes and your out basis. If you F up badly, you should loose your licence or at least have to go back to school for a refresher.

Also, if hospitals had to pay for this insurance, they would have a vested interest in their staff getting lots of CME credits to stay current and doc would get fired for major mistakes.

-t

moostraks
08-09-2014, 07:51 PM
Smh at guy who hurts finger with hammer and seeks an ER visit and gets a band aid. This is a teacher, too? Totally awesome! Completely inept at sound decision making but educating the future generation. Just smh!

tod evans
08-09-2014, 07:52 PM
There have been lots of brilliant men try to figure a way around malpractice but in the end the lawyers and insurance companies have always prevailed..

With government now trying for a bigger piece of the pie there'll be changes.....Who takes the brunt of 'em is the question....

Doctors refusing to see patients or quitting patient care altogether is just the beginning.

tangent4ronpaul
08-09-2014, 08:16 PM
I'm sure it is costly to operate, but it does not benefit the ED to operate it or charge for it, but rather the radiology department. And if they even suggested to the Emergency Department personnel to do more scans because of it, they would be breaking many ethical codes as well as breaking numerous federal and state laws which could cost the hospital possible tens of millions of dollars and likely the firing of many department heads.

What are you thinking of here.

-t

green73
08-09-2014, 08:54 PM
How's this not on Drudge? It's fricking Fox News for freak sake.

Occam's Banana
08-09-2014, 09:01 PM
There have been lots of brilliant men try to figure a way around malpractice but in the end the lawyers and insurance companies have always prevailed..

With government now trying for a bigger piece of the pie there'll be changes.....Who takes the brunt of 'em is the question....

Doctors refusing to see patients or quitting patient care altogether is just the beginning.

Clearly, the free market is full of fail. Politicians and bureaucrats really need to step up their game and do something about fixing these problems ...

Dr.3D
08-09-2014, 09:02 PM
Clearly, the free market is full of fail. Politicians and bureaucrats really need to step up their game and do something about fixing these problems ...
Yeah, like repealing all of the fixes they have already put in place.

TER
08-09-2014, 09:09 PM
100,000 / 2080 = $48 hr.
Lets say he sees 4 people an hour, on average.
That should add $12 to each patients bill.

I'm really against malpractice insurance. It shouldn't be there. You have someone there trying to help you, not a way for you to get rich quick.

I'm all for immunity for medical providers, but on a 3 strikes and your out basis. If you F up badly, you should loose your licence or at least have to go back to school for a refresher.

Also, if hospitals had to pay for this insurance, they would have a vested interest in their staff getting lots of CME credits to stay current and doc would get fired for major mistakes.

-t

I think malpractice insurance plays an important role because medicine is an imperfect science being applied by imperfect people and mistakes will happen. Those who suffer from these mistakes should be recompensed (I am not for immunity for doctors because then that will result in reckless medicine). The CME requirements are mandated by both the hospital for privileges as well as by the board of medical examiners and specialty boards for continuing licensure.

One good practice which is being implemented is that there are certain monetary caps in place (I believe Texas has this) as well as tossing out frivolous lawsuits prior to them clogging the courts and wasting everyone's time and money. Except of course for the lawyers who benefit from all of it. In fact, the real reason malpractice reform has been so slow going is because of the lawyers in the Capital who look after their colleagues and friends.

Another thing I have heard is that those who sue for frivolous reasons and then lose have to pay certain costly fees. This includes the lawyers having to pay a fine. This is done in certain countries and dissuades the scammers (including the lawyers) who literally make a living going around and suing people as a way to make money.

TER
08-09-2014, 09:13 PM
What are you thinking of here.

-t

I am referring to the laws which have been made to prevent abuses like the one you mentioned in your earlier post. Of course, this does not mean abuse does not exist (indeed, the reason the laws where made was because it did exist!), but with the heavy fines and penalties attached to them, they are not as prevalent as you would think.

Either way, what I said before about the lack of any monetary benefit to the average ED doc from the imaging studies they order is the truth. It is all about defensive medicine which compels them to order so many tests.

Bryan
08-09-2014, 09:40 PM
100,000 / 2080 = $48 hr.
Lets say he sees 4 people an hour, on average.
That should add $12 to each patients bill.

I'm really against malpractice insurance. It shouldn't be there. You have someone there trying to help you, not a way for you to get rich quick.

I'm all for immunity for medical providers, but on a 3 strikes and your out basis. If you F up badly, you should loose your licence or at least have to go back to school for a refresher.

Also, if hospitals had to pay for this insurance, they would have a vested interest in their staff getting lots of CME credits to stay current and doc would get fired for major mistakes.

-t

The free market solution is simple. When you sign in as a patient you sign a contract that limits your damages from malpractice. With that:

- Doctors would advertise their malpractice limits.
- Good doctors would be able to get cheap insurance.
- Patients would seek cost-effective doctors that meet their malpractice concerns for their budget.
- Insurance companies would find ways to contain costs and offer competitive plans with different limits.

In some way patients could even buy "extended' coverage upfront.

The key is to have iron clad contracts that the courts wouldn't overrule... and to remove all the other regulations that would make this illegal (I'm sure there is some).

TER
08-09-2014, 10:16 PM
The free market solution is simple. When you sign in as a patient you sign a contract that limits your damages from malpractice. With that:

- Doctors would advertise their malpractice limits.
- Good doctors would be able to get cheap insurance.
- Patients would seek cost-effective doctors that meet their malpractice concerns for their budget.
- Insurance companies would find ways to contain costs and offer competitive plans with different limits.

In some way patients could even buy "extended' coverage upfront.

The key is to have iron clad contracts that the courts wouldn't overrule... and to remove all the other regulations that would make this illegal (I'm sure there is some).

These sound like great solutions. Hopefully we can see such a trend.