PDA

View Full Version : Americans worry that illegal migrants threaten way of life, economy




Warlord
08-07-2014, 02:10 AM
(Reuters) - As President Barack Obama (http://www.reuters.com/people/barack-obama?lc=int_mb_1001) considers sidestepping Congress to loosen U.S. immigration policy, a Reuters/Ipsos poll shows Americans are deeply worried that illegal immigration is threatening the nation's culture and economy (http://www.reuters.com/finance/economy?lc=int_mb_1001).

Seventy percent of Americans - including 86 percent of Republicans - believe undocumented immigrants threaten traditional U.S. beliefs and customs, according to the poll.

The findings suggest immigration could join Obamacare - the healthcare insurance overhaul - and the economy (http://www.reuters.com/finance/economy?lc=int_mb_1001) as hot button issues that encourage more Republicans to vote in November's congressional election.

With Congress failing to agree on broad immigration reforms, Obama could act alone in the next few weeks to give work permits to up to 5 million undocumented immigrants and delay some deportations, according to media reports.

Hispanic and liberal voters would welcome that, but the online survey suggests much of the rest of the nation may not.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/07/us-usa-immigration-worries-idUSKBN0G70BE20140807

nobody's_hero
08-07-2014, 05:06 AM
Britain has been at this point for a while now. The recent successes of UKIP have been in large part a response to failed open-immigration policies. Britain serves as a testing ground for what can happen to a relatively wealthy nation which imports unsustainable amounts of former-Soviet bloc immigrants, and naively expects there to be absolutely no consequences for the native culture.

tod evans
08-07-2014, 05:50 AM
From Drudge;

Charge: Obama plan to legalize millions of immigrants 'disastrous' to blacks

http://washingtonexaminer.com/black-u.s.-civil-rights-commish-obamas-amnesty-plan-disastrous-to-blacks/article/2551741

President Obama’s much-rumored executive order granting legal status to potentially millions of illegal immigrants will be “disastrous” to African-American job seekers and a slap in the face to others proceeding through the tedious legal immigration process, charges a member of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights.

Peter Kirsanow, a black commissioner on the eight-member panel, warned in a letter (below) to Obama this week that giving legal status to undocumented workers will pave the way for them to take the few jobs that blacks, especially African-American men, need.

“I write to remind you of the disastrous effect of illegal immigration on the employment of all Americans, but particularly black Americans,” he wrote to Obama.

“Any grant of legal status will serve as a magnet to prospective illegal immigrants and further depress employment opportunities and wages for African Americans. Given that the labor force participation rate is at an historic low, the unemployment rate is 6.2 percent, and there has been a precipitous decline in household wealth, the timing for such a grant of legal status could not be worse,” he wrote in the letter, provided to Secrets.

Obama hasn’t formally decided what to do on immigration reform, but is planning some form of executive action after he returns from his extended vacation on Martha’s Vineyard Island in Massachusetts.

There have been several reports that he will grant legal status or some form of amnesty to millions of illegals including the tens of thousands of youths streaming over the U.S.-Mexico border.

Kirsanow, a Republican on the commission, cited past testimony about the impact opening the borders to new immigrants has on jobs for blacks.

“Illegal immigration has a disparate impact on African American men because these men are disproportionately represented in the low-skilled labor force,” wrote Kirsanow. He added, “Granting legal status to millions of people who are in the United States illegally will continue to depress the wages and employment opportunities of African American men and teenagers. It also will depress the wages and employment opportunities of African Americans going forward.”

And, he wrote, any sweeping executive order would be unfair to immigrants moving through the proper process to become Americans.

“The proposed executive order is unfair to people who are attempting to immigrate legally,” he said. “Most of the illegal immigrants who would benefit from your executive order have no skills, so they lose nothing by coming here illegally. Yet your proposed executive order is unlikely to make the visa process less cumbersome for legal immigrants or alleviate visa backlogs,” he added.

Antischism
08-07-2014, 08:57 AM
So are they going to "steal all of our jobs" or mooch off of the welfare state? Which is it?

thoughtomator
08-07-2014, 09:05 AM
So are they going to "steal all of our jobs" or mooch off of the welfare state? Which is it?

Both, they're going to undercut you on wages while taking everything your govt is able to steal from you and willing to give them. The welfare state facilitates the wage-undercutting, since a subsidized person requires less compensation than an unsubsidized one (see: WalMart business model).

HOLLYWOOD
08-07-2014, 09:23 AM
Studies of Overpopulation and Poverty have always coincide:

There are more Americans collecting Welfare than ever before...
There are more Americans collecting Disability than ever before...
There are more Americans collecting Social Security than ever before...
There are more Americans using Medicaid and Medicare than ever before...

The middle class has been shrinking as government and the Federal Reserve induce multiple layers of inflation...

There are more Americans in Poverty than ever before... the PONZI/PYRAMID government/banker schemes require more and more bodies up front.

Antischism
08-07-2014, 09:51 AM
Both, they're going to undercut you on wages while taking everything your govt is able to steal from you and willing to give them. The welfare state facilitates the wage-undercutting, since a subsidized person requires less compensation than an unsubsidized one (see: WalMart business model).

Doesn't cheap labor also facilitate and create more jobs?

Lucille
08-07-2014, 09:54 AM
http://www.fredoneverything.net/Unstable.shtml


Across the open border to the south pour huge waves from the Latino slums, less alien to Eurowhites, less hostile, but nonetheless threatening to form yet another country within a country. The Third World proportion of America closes rapidly on a full third. Despite desperate attempts to impose multicultural harmony, experience shows that widely disparate peoples who do not like each other do not enjoy happy endings. My country ‘tis of three, sweet land of dystrophy….

AuH20
08-07-2014, 09:56 AM
Doesn't cheap labor also facilitate and create more jobs?

In 1910, yes. Today, with the various tax payer subsidizations and mandated life standardizations, not so much.

Pericles
08-07-2014, 10:00 AM
Doesn't cheap labor also facilitate and create more jobs?

If I can pay a number of workers $25 a day, I have an advantage over my competitors who comply with laws and regulations, forcing them out of business. Your assertion only applies to market segments where the value of the good or service is too low relative to cost of production.

Acala
08-07-2014, 10:02 AM
The seeds of the destruction of this country were sown LONG ago by white, native-born Americans. And the vast majority of the Americans now complaining about illegals will turn around and vote for preserving and expanding the doomed welfare-warfare state they helped to create and now defend and support. As Ron Paul said, illegals are scapegoats and nobody would care about them if we had not already ruined our economy ourselves.

You could build a Berlin wall surrounding the entire country, deport every illegal, and our self-destruction would still be inevitable. The whole illegal debate is a distraction.

thoughtomator
08-07-2014, 10:02 AM
Doesn't cheap labor also facilitate and create more jobs?

Plantation owners certainly thought so.

But the reality is that what creates jobs is a vibrant middle class with wealth to spend on new business ideas. And as our middle class is being strip mined by currency debasement, taxation, bubble-blowing and labor dumping, exacerbating these problems is not an advisable course of action if your goal is to "create more jobs".

AuH20
08-07-2014, 10:04 AM
The seeds of the destruction of this country were sown LONG ago by white, native-born Americans. And the vast majority of the Americans now complaining about illegals will turn around and vote for preserving and expanding the doomed welfare-warfare state they helped to create and now defend and support. As Ron Paul said, illegals are scapegoats and nobody would care about them if we had not already ruined our economy ourselves.

You could build a Berlin wall surrounding the entire country, deport every illegal, and our self-destruction would still be inevitable. The whole illegal debate is a distraction.

True, the body has been in the coffin for awhile and I view the illegal influx as the final nails closing it shut.

HOLLYWOOD
08-07-2014, 10:11 AM
Plantation owners certainly thought so.

But the reality is that what creates jobs is a vibrant middle class with wealth to spend on new business ideas. And as our middle class is being strip mined by currency debasement, taxation, bubble-blowing and labor dumping, exacerbating these problems is not an advisable course of action if your goal is to "create more jobs".Mao did the same 'SORTA' thingy... there were no roads in China, so he gave each worker a 'spoon', pay them a nickle a day... and now there were 10s of millions of new workers at good paying jobs... of course, it was blasted across media and government news daily.

Government will just 'lower the bar' for what measures the new middle class level. Slick Willy Clinton did the same 'reformulation' of measurements/standards at the BLS/.gov in the 1990s.

tod evans
08-07-2014, 10:13 AM
40 acres and a mule was once considered poor in this country....

Ender
08-07-2014, 10:53 AM
Plantation owners certainly thought so.

But the reality is that what creates jobs is a vibrant middle class with wealth to spend on new business ideas. And as our middle class is being strip mined by currency debasement, taxation, bubble-blowing and labor dumping, exacerbating these problems is not an advisable course of action if your goal is to "create more jobs".

What creates wealth is a free market, a gold standard, and no minimum wage.

Wages rise as good workers find better jobs; when employers are forced to pay minimum wages, no one wins.

Everyone is so imbedded in the Matrix, they will fight to keep it.

The immigration hate has been going on ever since the first immigrants conquered the indigenous peoples.

PaleoPaul
08-07-2014, 01:17 PM
DEY TOOK OUR JERBS!!

:rolleyes:

Philhelm
08-07-2014, 02:15 PM
DEY TOOK OUR JERBS!!

:rolleyes:

That's not the illegals; that's the H-1B's.

The illegals just fuck up my fast food orders. I said, "no cheese," assholes!

Acala
08-07-2014, 03:29 PM
That's not the illegals; that's the H-1B's.

The illegals just fuck up my fast food orders. I said, "no cheese," assholes!

sin queso, amigo

Danke
08-07-2014, 03:33 PM
That's not the illegals; that's the H-1B's.

The illegals just fuck up my fast food orders. I said, "no cheese," assholes!

What do you have against cheese?

DamianTV
08-07-2014, 04:11 PM
What do you have against cheese?

Um, Queso Intolerance? Or in English, Lactose Intolerance? :p

---

I think I mostly kind of agree with feeling threatened here. Jobs are more scarce and this is more competition. Good paying jobs for people with skills are even more scarce leaving only a handful of minimum wage part time jobs, for which more and more people are competing with each other to get. Getting hired might now require that a person speak the same language as the invaders. This goes for both Managers that do the hiring and the Employees. If a Manager cant speak the same language as the Illegals, then they end up considered to get the axe. It is one of those things that so many people here call for, where "an Employer can fire someone for ANY reason they want". So what happens when what the Employer wants is to cater to the Illegals? What happens when the US born white guy gets fired because they refuse to learn the language of the Invading Army, because the Illegals are "cheaper"? Not that More Govt is a solution, but how does one go about handling that? (remember, Govt absolves itself of responsibility for causing the problem to begin with) What happens if a person does keep their job and has to fork over more and more of their diminishing paycheck to pay for Illegals? What happens when every law discriminates against the natural born population until the point that those people are systematically replaced?

(Note: the '---' indicates a separation in post, its a General Post, not directed at Danke, just the first quib.)

Danke
08-07-2014, 04:16 PM
Um, Queso Intolerance? Or in English, Lactose Intolerance? :p


You are speaking for Philhelm?

I didn't know anyone could be up to that task. Nor anyone who would want to.

PRB
08-07-2014, 04:16 PM
From Drudge;

Charge: Obama plan to legalize millions of immigrants 'disastrous' to blacks


I'll believe it when there's actual black civil rights groups or black Democrats speaking out about it. It may be true, but who are we to point it out if they don't see it themselves?

DamianTV
08-07-2014, 04:17 PM
You are speaking for Philhelm?

I did know anyone could be up to that task.

Naa, but thats about the upper limit of my spanish speaking abilities. Only other thing I know how to say is what Speedy Gonzales says when he starts running "Andele Andele Riba Riba ..." and I dont even know what the hell that means! :p

Acala
08-07-2014, 04:22 PM
Um, Queso Intolerance? Or in English, Lactose Intolerance? :p

---

I think I mostly kind of agree with feeling threatened here. Jobs are more scarce and this is more competition. Good paying jobs for people with skills are even more scarce leaving only a handful of minimum wage part time jobs, for which more and more people are competing with each other to get. Getting hired might now require that a person speak the same language as the invaders. This goes for both Managers that do the hiring and the Employees. If a Manager cant speak the same language as the Illegals, then they end up considered to get the axe. It is one of those things that so many people here call for, where "an Employer can fire someone for ANY reason they want". So what happens when what the Employer wants is to cater to the Illegals? What happens when the US born white guy gets fired because they refuse to learn the language of the Invading Army, because the Illegals are "cheaper"? Not that More Govt is a solution, but how does one go about handling that? (remember, Govt absolves itself of responsibility for causing the problem to begin with) What happens if a person does keep their job and has to fork over more and more of their diminishing paycheck to pay for Illegals? What happens when every law discriminates against the natural born population until the point that those people are systematically replaced?

(Note: the '---' indicates a separation in post, its a General Post, not directed at Danke, just the first quib.)

I can share my experience with you from living in a southern border region. Illegals do primarily landscaping, unskilled manual labor, unskilled factory work, janitorial work, and house cleaning. If you want a career in one of these fields, or as a low level supervisor in one of these fields, you might face some competition. I suggest learning a skill. Even a modest skill combined with mastery of English will put you well out of range of any competition from illegal immigrants from the south.

Philhelm
08-07-2014, 04:24 PM
You are speaking for Philhelm?

I did know anyone could be up to that task.

DamianTV: Please inform Danke that it is beneath the dignity of Our station to converse with him directly. We are very selective of Our cheeses. Fast food cheeses are nasty.

Danke
08-07-2014, 04:26 PM
DamianTV: Please inform Danke that it is beneath the dignity Our my station to converse with him directly.

http://content.answcdn.com/main/content/img/webpics/cheesehead.jpg

Philhelm
08-07-2014, 04:32 PM
sin queso, amigo

Je ne voudrais pas le fromage, mon ami.

DamianTV
08-07-2014, 05:25 PM
DamianTV: Please inform Danke that it is beneath the dignity of Our station to converse with him directly. We are very selective of Our cheeses. Fast food cheeses are nasty.

@Danke: Um, what he said! ^^^

@Phil: Gotcha, done.

kcchiefs6465
08-07-2014, 06:02 PM
I can share my experience with you from living in a southern border region. Illegals do primarily landscaping, unskilled manual labor, unskilled factory work, janitorial work, and house cleaning. If you want a career in one of these fields, or as a low level supervisor in one of these fields, you might face some competition. I suggest learning a skill. Even a modest skill combined with mastery of English will put you well out of range of any competition from illegal immigrants from the south.
Simply not being lazy and having the ingrained mentality that you are owed something, for starters.