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cien750hp
12-02-2007, 02:42 AM
everything is done for legal reasons. being a for-profit company selling advertising timeshares gets rid of all the limits and makes it easier for everyone. they will not make a profit.
your choices are blimp from this company set up for this sole purpose or no blimp because people cannot donate more than, $2700 (assuming they give the 2300 to the campaign.) here people can donate however much they want. if you get a nice christmas bonus, you could donate it. if you win the lottery, you could donate it. it is much easier and better, don't you agree?

there needs to be payment for legal counsels and others involved.

trevor and elijah are not looking to make millions.
they are looking for some compensation so they can work full time on the blimp, while not going into bankruptcy
They deserve it, and work tirelessly on this. They are listening to our suggestions, not everything can be instant. Cut them some slack. Let them work more instead of barraging them with complaints, this would all get off the ground and in the air faster.

this is not a scam. look at the legal team. Bradley Smith and Jim Fosbinder should make you feel secure here. The blimp cannot be brought down with them onboard.

nothing is without risks, and this has good intentions.

the graphics cannot be changed to endorse ron paul for president and would delay us and miss the teaparty

none of this can be related to the official campaign at all. this has to be individual.

if you feel its a scam then stop posting, and go support ron paul in your own way without alienating this effort.

and most importantly:
we need to rally together under Dr. Paul and the message of liberty, and not start bashing eachother. we are above that. come on. we can raise this money in a day then we wouldn't have to worry about what happens if we don't raise enough. :D

edit: donate at ronpaulblimp.com

JohnnyWrath
12-02-2007, 02:44 AM
they will not make a profit.

Yes, they will, and they have already admitted to it if you are reading along.

Jagwarr
12-02-2007, 02:47 AM
And what was the reason for not using a PAC again? Do they have limits?

rory096
12-02-2007, 02:48 AM
And what was the reason for not using a PAC again? Do they have limits?
Yes, they do.

synthetic
12-02-2007, 02:48 AM
if you feel its a scam then stop posting, and go support ron paul in your own way

The moment this became a money making business it stopped being grassroots. Are the grassroots now being asked to stop posting and leave so this newly formed business can florish and begin generating revenue to pay salaries?

JohnnyWrath
12-02-2007, 02:49 AM
The moment this became a money making business it stopped being grassroots. Are the grassroots now being asked to stop posting and leave so this newly formed business can florish and begin generating revenue to pay salaries?

It seems that way to me.

rory096
12-02-2007, 02:50 AM
The moment this became a money making business it stopped being grassroots. Are the grassroots now being asked to stop posting and leave so this newly formed business can florish and begin generating revenue to pay salaries?
Any revenue generated from this will be entirely grassroots. If a ChipIn raises, say $5000 and pays for the production and airing of a TV ad, is it not grassroots because the people working in the ad agency got paid?

Hook
12-02-2007, 02:50 AM
It seems that way to me.

Really, we haven't been able to tell. Perhaps you should tell us a few more times so we can understand better.:rolleyes:

cien750hp
12-02-2007, 02:51 AM
honestly i really don't want this being yet another debate thread.

Its not money making per se, i honestly don't believe they will keep any profit. just have some salaries for the staffers, and all money goes to the blimp. just makes it easier with more legal complications that probably result from a non-profit

and Jagwarr: yes, there is a $5000 limit, and money donated to the official campaign counts towards that.

millerjd
12-02-2007, 03:10 AM
Is there a way to delete all subsequent posts from the initial to keep the debate in the threads?

JohnnyWrath
12-02-2007, 03:14 AM
Its not money making per se, i honestly don't believe they will keep any profit. just have some salaries for the staffers, and all money goes to the blimp. just makes it easier with more legal complications that probably result from a non-profit

Both of them quit their jobs because this will pay better.

They have more lawyers than OJ that we now pay??

We have to pay somebody to video this??

They are making money off of us, don't fool yourself.

Now they are selling ad space on the blimp? 1 million dollars per month for a blimp that costs a 3rd of that???

rory096
12-02-2007, 03:21 AM
Both of them quit their jobs because this will pay better.

They have more lawyers than OJ that we now pay??

We have to pay somebody to video this??

They are making money off of us, don't fool yourself.

Now they are selling ad space on the blimp? 1 million dollars per month for a blimp that costs a 3rd of that???
Uh, they said they're getting paid the same as their old jobs and they even asked for community input on their salaries. Why would you object to professional videotaping of this? It'll be extremely beneficial for media exposure. Ad space now is the same as donations before. 1 million dollars per month? What are you talking about?

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 03:23 AM
Both of them quit their jobs because this will pay better.



Look, yet another JohnnyWrath lie.

What a surprise.

ChrisV
12-02-2007, 03:23 AM
Now they are selling ad space on the blimp? 1 million dollars per month for a blimp that costs a 3rd of that???

FYI, the website says $500,000 for one month, not 1 million.

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 03:24 AM
Now they are selling ad space on the blimp? 1 million dollars per month for a blimp that costs a 3rd of that???


Ope, Another JohnnyWrath lie.... what do you know, he managed ot fit 2 in one post!


Id be careful, I think this guy might be a professional liar.

cien750hp
12-02-2007, 03:25 AM
JohnnyWrath, i'm asking you politely here to stop making this thread into another debate. you have plenty of other threads your posting in, this is supposed to answer questions/clarify things for people

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 03:26 AM
The moment this became a money making business it stopped being grassroots. Are the grassroots now being asked to stop posting and leave so this newly formed business can florish and begin generating revenue to pay salaries?

This needs to go back to a grassroots effort. One month, $350,000 dollars. No business.

THEN!

We can put up 2 competing models, one for the business approach and one for the grassroots approach and see which is supported to extend the campaign in length and maybe number of blimps. See which one gets better support.

For now, we have a sure thing pre-business model, and a huge maybe after business model. Going with the original plan will make it happen, and takes a ton to time pressure and stress off. Then we can choose which way we want to go, and the business model has a lot of time and leisure to present it's case so it's not a surprise to anyone.

-n

rory096
12-02-2007, 03:29 AM
This needs to go back to a grassroots effort. One month, $350,000 dollars. No business.

THEN!

We can put up 2 competing models, one for the business approach and one for the grassroots approach and see which is supported to extend the campaign in length and maybe number of blimps. See which one gets better support.

For now, we have a sure thing pre-business model, and a huge maybe after business model. Going with the original plan will make it happen, and takes a ton to time pressure and stress off. Then we can choose which way we want to go, and the business model has a lot of time and leisure to present it's case so it's not a surprise to anyone.

-n
You're missing something: the old plan didn't work. If we created a PAC there would be limits, so all it would be doing would be pulling donations away from the official campaign. The idea here is to have something for maxed out donors to contribute to, not people who haven't yet reached the limit.

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 03:30 AM
FYI, the website says $500,000 for one month, not 1 million.

WTF! - you can BUY a blimp for 2 Million! - 4 months of operation for what it costs to own one??? I mean $350,000 was pushing reality, but this new budget... *WOW!*

-n

rory096
12-02-2007, 03:32 AM
WTF! - you can BUY a blimp for 2 Million! - 4 months of operation for what it costs to own one??? I mean $350,000 was pushing reality, but this new budget... *WOW!*

-n
This includes more than just a blimp. Stop trolling.

cien750hp
12-02-2007, 03:33 AM
WTF! - you can BUY a blimp for 2 Million! - 4 months of operation for what it costs to own one??? I mean $350,000 was pushing reality, but this new budget... *WOW!*

-n

add in 20 people for ground crew, costs of maintenance and helium, all types of insurance, insurance, permits/liscences/other required items, graphics
thats what we need to pay the company for. 350 grand is a hell of a deal.

then we need to pay for our people, legal counsel, etc. they're just betting 150 grand, which is probably over to be safe.

ChrisV
12-02-2007, 03:38 AM
add in 20 people for ground crew, costs of maintenance and helium, all types of insurance, insurance, permits/liscences/other required items, graphics
thats what we need to pay the company for. 350 grand is a hell of a deal.

then we need to pay for our people, legal counsel, etc. they're just betting 150 grand, which is probably over to be safe.

Don't forget the blimp hanger.

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 03:38 AM
WTF! - you can BUY a blimp for 2 Million! - 4 months of operation for what it costs to own one??? I mean $350,000 was pushing reality, but this new budget... *WOW!*

-n


Really? where could I buy a blimp for $2 million?

rrcamp
12-02-2007, 03:44 AM
I guess at this point all this salary/profit talk is hypothetical. Right now there is < $20k in donated money... a lot different from the $500k pledged. Not much salary to take from -$330k.... I guess we could get a Ron Paul Kia... :-D

ChrisV
12-02-2007, 03:47 AM
I guess at this point all this salary/profit talk is hypothetical. Right now there is < $20k in donated money... a lot different from the $500k pledged. Not much profit or salary to take from -$330k.... I guess we could get Ron Paul Kia...

The mass email to the people that pledged has not been sent yet.

cien750hp
12-02-2007, 03:54 AM
also, one last thing before going to bed:
if you pledged, it would be very honorable for you to donate even if you don't 100% like the message on there. obviously we cannot tell you what to do with your money, but it is the best we can do with the restrictions in place, and just because it doesn't advocate "president" doesn't mean it won't get name recognition and people talking. this will be amazing no matter what, and we cannot let this opportunity pass us up.

we are always innovative and doing things different. please help us get this blimp in the air.

rrcamp
12-02-2007, 03:54 AM
The mass email to the people that pledged has not been sent yet.

Ahaa... any reason in particular for the wait? I'd imagine sooner is better, but I guess they know best :-)

That's good news... Blimp > Kia

rory096
12-02-2007, 04:00 AM
Ahaa... any reason in particular for the wait? I'd imagine sooner is better, but I guess they know best :-)

That's good news... Blimp > Kia
The donations have only been open for a day, and the how it works page wasn't up until a few hours ago. They probably wanted to wait until the site was fully operational.

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 04:02 AM
You're missing something: the old plan didn't work. If we created a PAC there would be limits, so all it would be doing would be pulling donations away from the official campaign. The idea here is to have something for maxed out donors to contribute to, not people who haven't yet reached the limit.

Your missing something here - the old plan said upfront that if you had not reached your $2,100 limit that you should donate to the campaign instead and only donate here if you were maxed out.

btw: that $2,100 limit is PER ELECTION! The primaries and general are DIFFERENT elections! If you donate over $2,100 they roll it over to your general election campaign donation. If you donate over $4,200 (cumulative) they don't accept the last donation.

Aside from which, the idea of a PAC is not to compete with official campaign donations, but rather to allow greater contributions outside of the campaign. My understanding is that a PAC can accept up to $5,000 per fundraiser per supporter. So, Dec-Jan is a fundraiser, and Jan-February is a fundraiser, etc. We don't have hard limits here except that only $5,000 (can't believe I'm using "only" to describe $5,000!) can be contributed at a time. Want to be safer? - form different PACs for each month! That REALLY separates them!

This plan is formed on the pretext that only large donors can make it fly. That means a few, well off, individuals are responsible for most of the effort. That is not the grassroots. Donations from well off companies and individuals generally come with strings. Lobbyists have long ago learned that approaching Dr. Paul is a waste of time, as he will follow the Constitution and his heart and do what is right - special interests be damed! So maybe we have a few really well off supporters that want to support this - is requiring those few to donate 11 times for a maximum total of $5,500,000 each such a hardship?

btw: how many ppl do we have out there willing to donate over 5 Million dollars to the campaign? - just curious...

On it's current trajectory, this program is taking the fast track to being an embarrassment to the campaign. Go with the original plan - one month, and then we can look at extending it by whatever mechanism. - K?

-n


-n

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 04:08 AM
Really? where could I buy a blimp for $2 million?

ever heard of Google? - you might like it. try the terms blimp and FAQ - didn't find the one I originally saw and quoted right off, but here is one from the first few returns:

How much does it cost to build a blimp?

Again, it varies depending upon the size of the ship, but expect around US$2,000,000 for a small (130 ft.) ship.

http://spot.colorado.edu/~dziadeck/airship/faq.htm

not worth wasting the search time on you...

-n

rory096
12-02-2007, 04:08 AM
Your missing something here - the old plan said upfront that if you had not reached your $2,100 limit that you should donate to the campaign instead and only donate here if you were maxed out.

btw: that $2,100 limit is PER ELECTION! The primaries and general are DIFFERENT elections! If you donate over $2,100 they roll it over to your general election campaign donation. If you donate over $4,200 (cumulative) they don't accept the last donation.

Aside from which, the idea of a PAC is not to compete with official campaign donations, but rather to allow greater contributions outside of the campaign. My understanding is that a PAC can accept up to $5,000 per fundraiser per supporter. So, Dec-Jan is a fundraiser, and Jan-February is a fundraiser, etc. We don't have hard limits here except that only $5,000 (can't believe I'm using "only" to describe $5,000!) can be contributed at a time. Want to be safer? - form different PACs for each month! That REALLY separates them!

This plan is formed on the pretext that only large donors can make it fly. That means a few, well off, individuals are responsible for most of the effort. That is not the grassroots. Donations from well off companies and individuals generally come with strings. Lobbyists have long ago learned that approaching Dr. Paul is a waste of time, as he will follow the Constitution and his heart and do what is right - special interests be damed! So maybe we have a few really well off supporters that want to support this - is requiring those few to donate 11 times for a maximum total of $5,500,000 each such a hardship?

btw: how many ppl do we have out there willing to donate over 5 Million dollars to the campaign? - just curious...

On it's current trajectory, this program is taking the fast track to being an embarrassment to the campaign. Go with the original plan - one month, and then we can look at extending it by whatever mechanism. - K?

-n


-n
First off, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that you can't just donate $4600 (2300 is the campaign limit) to the campaign for them to use in the primary and say it's for both the primary and the general. Also, the people running this project have already said that campaign donations would have to count toward the limit to the PAC, further limiting donations. As for well off people donating, that's not really true, anyone who already donated 2300 to the campaign can donate, and some would probably have to donate more than 3700 dollars for this to work.

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 04:10 AM
On it's current trajectory, this program is taking the fast track to being an embarrassment to the campaign.



Hwo do you figure? what will the embarassment be? That a loophole was found in the McCain -Feingold bill

527s?

Hello?

Nobody was ever embarassed because they used a 527.

Moveon.org? Allowed to do whatever it wants, and spend as much money as it sees fit.

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 04:12 AM
ever heard of Google? - you might like it. try the terms blimp and FAQ - didn't find the one I originally saw and quoted right off, but here is one from the first few returns:

How much does it cost to build a blimp?

Again, it varies depending upon the size of the ship, but expect around US$2,000,000 for a small (130 ft.) ship.

http://spot.colorado.edu/~dziadeck/airship/faq.htm

not worth wasting the search time on you...

-n



Building one for $2,000,000? Could we get one built in 14 days? And would we be able to buy it at cost? or do you suppose they would charge us more?

rory096
12-02-2007, 04:15 AM
Building one for $2,000,000? Could we get one built in 14 days? And would we be able to buy it at cost? or do you suppose they would charge us more?
And could we magically make it 70 feet longer for the same cost? That would be nice too.

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 04:15 AM
First off, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that you can't just donate $4600 (2300 is the campaign limit) to the campaign for them to use in the primary and say it's for both the primary and the general. Also, the people running this project have already said that campaign donations would have to count toward the limit to the PAC, further limiting donations. As for well off people donating, that's not really true, anyone who already donated 2300 to the campaign can donate, and some would probably have to donate more than 3700 dollars for this to work.

Your right - it's $2,300, not $2,100 - think I got that in my head from another thread. Anyway, I don't follow you at all about the PACs...

If a PAC can only raise $5,000 for an event that is a serious problem! but I think that limit is per-individual!

OTOH: Boston is an event, Manchester NH is an event, and Atlanta GA is an event...

PLAY WITH IT! - we can make this happen without a company!

-n

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 04:16 AM
PLAY WITH IT! - we can make this happen without a company!



Ill trust the FEC lawyer over your guess.

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 04:16 AM
Building one for $2,000,000? Could we get one built in 14 days? And would we be able to buy it at cost? or do you suppose they would charge us more?

WOW! we are now talking about operating one for a year - could we build one is 4-6 months?

Your argument is a joke!

-n

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 04:19 AM
WOW! we are now talking about operating one for a year - could we build one is 4-6 months?

Your argument is a joke!

-n


4-6 months? Primaries are over by then!

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 04:20 AM
Ill trust the FEC lawyer over your guess.

FEC lawyer - hu....

and the FEC was set up to be fair to third parties, "minority" views (like that contrary to fortune 500 company executives) and independents. A completely fair, unbiased, and balanced view of the world... like FOX NEWS! - I get it!

-n

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 04:22 AM
4-6 months? Primaries are over by then!

Is there an ignore function on this forum? - this guy is a troll! (Or just really dense - guess he hasn't read most of the threads he's been posting in)

-n

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 04:27 AM
FEC lawyer - hu....

and the FEC was set up to be fair to third parties, "minority" views (like that contrary to fortune 500 company executives) and independents. A completely fair, unbiased, and balanced view of the world... like FOX NEWS! - I get it!

-n


what do you know about campaign finance laws?

steph3n
12-02-2007, 04:27 AM
Your right - it's $2,300, not $2,100 - think I got that in my head from another thread. Anyway, I don't follow you at all about the PACs...

If a PAC can only raise $5,000 for an event that is a serious problem! but I think that limit is per-individual!

OTOH: Boston is an event, Manchester NH is an event, and Atlanta GA is an event...

PLAY WITH IT! - we can make this happen without a company!

-n

Please stop going on tangents :)

You don't follow the PACs because you have not researched them, $5000 is the limit on PAC not supporting ANY SINGLE candidate, if it is advocating a single candidate it is restricted to the SAME $2300 as the official campaign. therefore WORTHLESS you wish to have some other candidate also advertised.

pointe
12-02-2007, 04:30 AM
they will not make a profit.
...
trevor and elijah are not looking to make millions.
they are looking for some compensation so they can work full time on the blimp, while not going into bankruptcy


How do you know they won't make a profit? How much are they making? Why is this a sticky thread? This is the same argument that is going on in all the other threads...

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 04:35 AM
How much are they making?

The same amount as they made at the jobs they quit.

How much that is, I don't know, but I bet it will be in their email.

pointe
12-02-2007, 04:39 AM
The same amount as they made at the jobs they quit.

How much that is, I don't know, but I bet it will be in their email.

I doubt that will be disclosed in their e-mail, but I guess we'll see. I don't even know if they should put it in honestly because no matter how much it is some people are not going to like it. I have to give him props for starting a thread asking how much the forum users thinks he should make tho...

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 04:41 AM
Please stop going on tangents :)

You don't follow the PACs because you have not researched them, $5000 is the limit on PAC not supporting ANY SINGLE candidate, if it is advocating a single candidate it is restricted to the SAME $2300 as the official campaign. therefore WORTHLESS you wish to have some other candidate also advertised.

Well many states have candidates running for the House and Senate under Dr. Paul's platform - why not advertise them? What about all out delegates?

are they not additional candidates?

-n

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 04:46 AM
Please stop going on tangents :)

You don't follow the PACs because you have not researched them, $5000 is the limit on PAC not supporting ANY SINGLE candidate, if it is advocating a single candidate it is restricted to the SAME $2300 as the official campaign. therefore WORTHLESS you wish to have some other candidate also advertised.

someone does not know what they are talking about:

http://www.pro-pac.org/

Maximum donation amount is $5,610 per individual or $11,220 per married couple each calendar year. Donations are not tax-deductible. Corporate contributions are prohibited. Donations of any amount are greatly appreciated!

I was wrong on the per-event thing, though... unless you make separate PACs per month!!!!

That's the first link that came up... maybe not 100% on target, but...

-n

steph3n
12-02-2007, 04:52 AM
someone does not know what they are talking about:

http://www.pro-pac.org/

Maximum donation amount is $5,610 per individual or $11,220 per married couple each calendar year. Donations are not tax-deductible. Corporate contributions are prohibited. Donations of any amount are greatly appreciated!

I was wrong on the per-event thing, though... unless you make separate PACs per month!!!!

That's the first link that came up... maybe not 100% on target, but...

-n

they are not a single candidate PAC

I honestly have no clue where the 5610 figure comes from it is not in the laws.

even wiki has it right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee

Jagwarr
12-02-2007, 04:56 AM
How do you know they won't make a profit? How much are they making? Why is this a sticky thread? This is the same argument that is going on in all the other threads...

Agree that this should not have been a sticky thread. Now those who disagree with this new idea are going to feel that the entire grassroots forum is in on the plans. But I guess that is silly because now we know they are.

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 04:58 AM
Agree that this should not have been a sticky thread. Now those who disagree with this new idea are going to feel that the entire grassroots forum is in on the plans.

I think all you newbs coming here to attack it are plants from another campaign.

:rolleyes:

and most of us are "in" on this. we have been around long enough to know naysayers are but pesky gnats trying to get in the way of victory.

pointe
12-02-2007, 05:01 AM
Agree that this should not have been a sticky thread. Now those who disagree with this new idea are going to feel that the entire grassroots forum is in on the plans. But I guess that is silly because now we know they are.

The reason I don't think it should be a sticky is that it just seems like speculation from someone who I don't think was involved with the project. It also devolved into the same arguments that are already going on in the other threads...

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 05:08 AM
they are not a single candidate PAC

I honestly have no clue where the 5610 figure comes from it is not in the laws.

even wiki has it right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee

Thanks for the link! - I didn't check Wikipedia this time... You are correct! - was kind of wondering about that, I remembered a more even figure too.

-n

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 05:22 AM
I think all you newbs coming here to attack it are plants from another campaign.

:rolleyes:

and most of us are "in" on this. we have been around long enough to know naysayers are but pesky gnats trying to get in the way of victory.

OK - in the interests of Grassroots openness and honesty, how about identifying who is involved and what their relationship to the project is. Some have non-identifying usernames (like NewEnd), yet have been trying hard to influence the discussion. If you are part of the project, please identify yourself and your position. Personally, I volunteered for route planning and have been submitting stuff in calls or conference calls, e-mails and postings both here and on a private forum devoted to this (that is pretty dead!). My impression is that it is pretty disorganized. I've only been put in touch with a meteorologist, but I'm hearing conflicting claims that one type of route has been chosen and or certain states have been ruled out. It's a mess! I have made no arrangements to get a penny out of it, and do not expect to. I personally don't want to see a penny to be made out of this. To those that believe in the campaign, it is a willingly given sacrifice to get our country and our freedoms back!

-n

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 05:28 AM
OK - in the interests of Grassroots openness and honesty, how about identifying who is involved and what their relationship to the project is. Some have non-identifying usernames (like NewEnd), yet have been trying hard to influence the discussion. If you are part of the project, please identify yourself and your position. Personally, I volunteered for route planning and have been submitting stuff in calls or conference calls, e-mails and postings both here and on a private forum devoted to this (that is pretty dead!). My impression is that it is pretty disorganized. I've only been put in touch with a meteorologist, but I'm hearing conflicting claims that one type of route has been chosen and or certain states have been ruled out. It's a mess! I have made no arrangements to get a penny out of it, and do not expect to. I personally don't want to see a penny to be made out of this. To those that believe in the campaign, it is a willingly given sacrifice to get our country and our freedoms back!

-n

I have nothing to do with it. I am just enraged there are a bunch of know it all newbs who are trying to spread FUD about something that can be great, and trying to sink the fucking blimp. My only agenda is to have that fuckign Blimp in Boston on the 16th. that is it... and there are a bunch of retards runnign around thinking they know better... and it pisses me off.

They are spreading ignorance, and even outright lies to try and shoot down the blimp, and i think it is fucking dispicable.
I have run into people like this onthe boards before... all they ever do is try to shoot down an idea, and they will stop at nothing to try and see it fail.... Worthless grass roots support. The type that should be weeded out and burned in a trash can so the real grassroots can flourish.

They aren't helping, they are being a god damned nuisance. And when that blimp is inthe sky, with gaggles of people asking their news stations about it, you fucking assholes that tried to discredit how it got up there are going to have some real apologizing to do to those of us that had to tirelessly rebute your fucking bullshit.

Just like before Novemebr 5th, when people were saying how terrible it was, how the money should be donated now.....

...they were wrong, but god was it annoying trying to keep their lies and piss poor logic from fucking it up.

Jagwarr
12-02-2007, 05:53 AM
So whenever this blimp lands at a rally and media is around instead of talking about Ron Paul and his platform the media is going to be asking the same questions about money bombs and the blimp itself, which really will serve no purpose at all to the campaign.

The best thing Mr. Lyman could do for Ron Paul is to stay far away from this Blimp so that the media attention is focused on the man himself and his ideas. The purpose of the Blimp is to draw attention to Ron Paul, not how particular advertising plans were drawn up.

Lets get some seniors to champion Dr. Paul to the AARP at some stops and some economic exerts at others and constitutional law experts at others and so on. Talking about money bombs and the blimp itself is pointless. We need votes at this point, not pats on the back, we can save that for later.

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 05:56 AM
So whenever this blimp lands at a rally and media is around instead of talking about Ron Paul and his platform the media is going to be asking the same questions about money bombs and the blimp itself, which really will serve no purpose at all to the campaign.

The best thing Mr. Lyman could do for Ron Paul is to stay far away from this Blimp so that the media attention is focused on the man himself and his ideas. The purpose of the Blimp is to draw attention to Ron Paul, not how particular advertising plans were drawn up.

Lets get some seniors to champion Dr. Paul to the AARP at some stops and some economic exerts at others and constitutional law experts at others and so on. Talking about money bombs and the blimp itself is pointless. We need votes at this point, not pats on the back, we can save that for later.

1. the media loves the horserace.
2. teh blimp is gonna say


RON PAUL

Jagwarr
12-02-2007, 06:06 AM
1. the media loves the horserace.
2. teh blimp is gonna say


RON PAUL

You really think it is better for the media to talk to Trevor about money bombs and his blimp at every stop then to have the media discuss Dr. Paul's ideas with regular citizens at each stop? Do you really think so?

The media is going to know he owns the company and they will ask him about it. They WILL ask him if he is making money from the blimp and no matter how you look at it his replies will not sound too good to the public. I don't know, just seems like there would be a better way to use the blimp stops for the campaign.

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 06:10 AM
I have nothing to do with it. I am just enraged there are a bunch of know it all newbs who are trying to spread FUD about something that can be great, and trying to sink the fucking blimp. My only agenda is to have that fuckign Blimp in Boston on the 16th. that is it... and there are a bunch of retards runnign around thinking they know better... and it pisses me off.

Well thank you! - much better than your "Most of us are in on it" quote to imply you were an insider to this project! I have no interest in sinking the blimp! - the organizers are seriously F'ing up by changing what was offered to get those pledges to something different on short notice. This NEEDS to go with the majority of the original plan (1 day flights won't work, etc) and then look at commercial involvement as a solution. The changes are causing it to loose it's support! - this NEEDS to happen NOW! Any time spent arranging how to pay the organizers and inflate the cost 150K is a total waste of time, that will prevent the more modest plan from flying if perused.



They are spreading ignorance, and even outright lies to try and shoot down the blimp, and i think it is fucking dispicable.
I have run into people like this onthe boards before... all they ever do is try to shoot down an idea, and they will stop at nothing to try and see it fail.... Worthless grass roots support. The type that should be weeded out and burned in a trash can so the real grassroots can flourish.

From your posts that I have seen, which is many in the past 2 dys, I am having a hard time thinking of one where you were not trying to shoot down someones ideas. Now who is the troll?

-n

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 06:12 AM
You really think it is better for the media to talk to Trevor about money bombs and his blimp at every stop then to have the media discuss Dr. Paul's ideas with regular citizens at each stop? Do you really think so?

I think Trevor can handle getting the message out, as well as his media guys. And you are looking into a crystal ball.... but magic isn't real. You have no idea how the media may react... and the blimp is more a name recognition tool, than an evangelizing tool.


The media is going to know he owns the company and they will ask him about it. They WILL ask him if he is making money from the blimp and no matter how you look at it his replies will not sound too good to the public. I don't know, just seems like there would be a better way to use the blimp stops for the campaign.

again, crystal ball. You dont know they will ask him, and even if they do, most people are not going to care abotu whether he is drawing a salary or not. In fact, most people assumed Lyman was a staffer for Paul in the first place, so they assumed he was getting payed anyways.

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 06:13 AM
From your posts that I have seen, which is many in the past 2 dys, I am having a hard time thinking of one where you were not trying to shoot down someones ideas. Now who is the troll?


:rolleyes:

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 06:16 AM
You really think it is better for the media to talk to Trevor about money bombs and his blimp at every stop then to have the media discuss Dr. Paul's ideas with regular citizens at each stop? Do you really think so?

The media is going to know he owns the company and they will ask him about it. They WILL ask him if he is making money from the blimp and no matter how you look at it his replies will not sound too good to the public. I don't know, just seems like there would be a better way to use the blimp stops for the campaign.

http://oregoniansforronpaul.com/index.php/The-Ron-Paul-Sign-Page.html

Actual slogans supporters have used on signs and stuff:

Sell kidney, send $ to Ron Paul
We're inspired, not hired!
I made this sign myself in support of Ron Paul.
We do this for FREE!

-n

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 07:44 AM
One question:
What if Rudy or Romney purchases 51% of the "advertising space" on the blimp? Under this new model, that seems well within their rights.

steph3n
12-02-2007, 08:03 AM
One question:
What if Rudy or Romney purchases 51% of the "advertising space" on the blimp? Under this new model, that seems well within their rights.

The ad space is reserved for existing graphics right now :)

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 08:06 AM
One question:
What if Rudy or Romney purchases 51% of the "advertising space" on the blimp? Under this new model, that seems well within their rights.

Yeah - what if the "front liners" even purchase 10-% of the blimp - what about 1% - say a majority of advertising space over the super bowl...

-n

LibertyEagle
12-02-2007, 08:28 AM
everything is done for legal reasons. being a for-profit company selling advertising timeshares gets rid of all the limits and makes it easier for everyone. they will not make a profit.
your choices are blimp from this company set up for this sole purpose or no blimp because people cannot donate more than, $2700 (assuming they give the 2300 to the campaign.) here people can donate however much they want. if you get a nice christmas bonus, you could donate it. if you win the lottery, you could donate it. it is much easier and better, don't you agree?



Where did you get this information? It has always been my understanding of the FEC regs, that an individual could donate up to $5K to each and every PAC they choose to support. That is in addition to the $2300 they donated to the campaign.

LibertyEagle
12-02-2007, 08:30 AM
They aren't helping, they are being a god damned nuisance. And when that blimp is inthe sky, with gaggles of people asking their news stations about it, you fucking assholes that tried to discredit how it got up there are going to have some real apologizing to do to those of us that had to tirelessly rebute your fucking bullshit.



Do you eat with the same mouth that you are talking out of? :(

Cyclone
12-02-2007, 08:32 AM
[QUOTE
if you feel its a scam then stop posting, and go support ron paul in your own way without alienating this effort.

D[/QUOTE]


Well, some of us here like to try to protect others from scam artists. That is why we discuss issues and try to make sure no one gets hurt. However, anytime someone tells me not to bring up anything negative, I get suspicious. Honest people rarely stifle open debate. There has been an awful lot of mud slinging these days against anyone who dares to object to any project. It is very sad.

Cyclone
12-02-2007, 08:37 AM
Yeah - what if the "front liners" even purchase 10-% of the blimp - what about 1% - say a majority of advertising space over the super bowl...

-n

You don't have to worry about that, under the terms of service you cannot request or demand any specific time for your ad to run, and you can't even expect it to run at all, it will be up to their discretion. If they don't have room, they can replace your ad with something else they consider similar. http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/terms.php


This is the strangest business model I have ever seen.

Here is a quote from their site:


"We may schedule your timeshare at our convenience."

"If timeshares are oversold, we may substitute other advertising of equivalent value that expresses a similar message to the advertising you have bought."

Also: "Your purchase is not refundable."

I cannot imagine who would purchase any time on that blimp under these conditions, I can only assume, they have not read them.

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 09:00 AM
This is the guy who is supposed to be leasing us the blimp

President - George A.R. Spyrou
Airship Management Services Inc
Headquarters Address:
Two Soundview Drive
Greenwich, CT 06830
USA
Website: www.airshipman.com
Phone: (203) 625-0071
Fax: (203) 625-0065

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 09:04 AM
http://www.airshipman.com/services.htm
Airship Management Services Inc. (AMS) is a full-service airship company whose staff have over 25 years of worldwide experience in airship operations. We provide, for lease or sale, a state-of-the-art, fully certified Skyship 600 airship, with customized exterior and interior decoration, graphics and design.

AMS will operate and maintain the airship, and provide all fully licensed ground and flight personnel (wearing "branded" uniforms), complete technical support and all tour-related vehicles branded with your logos.

Further, AMS partners with you in strategy development for maximizing impact and visibility via utilization of the Airship for:

General Exposure over targeted cities/regions
TV Broadcast Platform
Media Flights for Trade, Consumers, Magazine, Press
Corporate and Retail Incentive Promotions
Sales and Consumer Promotions
VIP Passenger Flights
Competitions, Merchandising, and Incentive Schemes
Tie-in with concerts and sporting events for which you sponsor

AMS works with you to develop an airship program that is both comprehensive and tailored specifically to meet your promotional needs and objectives.


Does anyone else remember when the blimp was all-inclusive??

Cyclone
12-02-2007, 09:19 AM
Yup.

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2007, 09:22 AM
You don't have to worry about that, under the terms of service you cannot request or demand any specific time for your ad to run, and you can't even expect it to run at all, it will be up to their discretion. If they don't have room, they can replace your ad with something else they consider similar. http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/terms.php


This is the strangest business model I have ever seen.

Here is a quote from their site:


"We may schedule your timeshare at our convenience."

"If timeshares are oversold, we may substitute other advertising of equivalent value that expresses a similar message to the advertising you have bought."

Also: "Your purchase is not refundable."

I cannot imagine who would purchase any time on that blimp under these conditions, I can only assume, they have not read them.

OMG!!! - the contract from HELL! - Maybe the Nigerians would like to sub-contract it!????

LOOK! - eithor return this to a non-profit, grassroots thing or it is not going to get in the air! - and this "sudden switch" has threatened even that! - that gives everyone lots of time, and produces results NOW! - That means more donations. Do NOT jump on your d*ck with golf cleats guys.... You were doing so good for a while...

-n

constitutional
12-02-2007, 09:40 AM
"They are listening to our suggestions, not everything can be instant."

lie

Matt
12-02-2007, 09:54 AM
Where did you get this information? It has always been my understanding of the FEC regs, that an individual could donate up to $5K to each and every PAC they choose to support. That is in addition to the $2300 they donated to the campaign.

No, that is for PACs that do not advocate a single candidate. For example, we could put "Huckabee sucks!" on the blimp and a PAC would work but putting "Ron Paul for President" would cause the limit to be $2300 and count toward your total. This LLC idea is ingenious and is the only way we can fly a blimp. People need to chill out and let things come together. Check your PM's

leipo
12-02-2007, 10:42 AM
The OP suggested that the salary should be 50K a month. Come on people, this is a scam.

NerveShocker
12-02-2007, 11:48 AM
everything is done for legal reasons. being a for-profit company selling advertising timeshares gets rid of all the limits and makes it easier for everyone. they will not make a profit.
your choices are blimp from this company set up for this sole purpose or no blimp because people cannot donate more than, $2700 (assuming they give the 2300 to the campaign.) here people can donate however much they want. if you get a nice christmas bonus, you could donate it. if you win the lottery, you could donate it. it is much easier and better, don't you agree?

there needs to be payment for legal counsels and others involved.

trevor and elijah are not looking to make millions.
they are looking for some compensation so they can work full time on the blimp, while not going into bankruptcy
They deserve it, and work tirelessly on this. They are listening to our suggestions, not everything can be instant. Cut them some slack. Let them work more instead of barraging them with complaints, this would all get off the ground and in the air faster.

this is not a scam. look at the legal team. Bradley Smith and Jim Fosbinder should make you feel secure here. The blimp cannot be brought down with them on board.

nothing is without risks, and this has good intentions.

the graphics cannot be changed to endorse ron paul for president and would delay us and miss the teaparty

none of this can be related to the official campaign at all. this has to be individual.

if you feel its a scam then stop posting, and go support ron paul in your own way without alienating this effort.

and most importantly:
we need to rally together under Dr. Paul and the message of liberty, and not start bashing eachother. we are above that. come on. we can raise this money in a day then we wouldn't have to worry about what happens if we don't raise enough. :D

I totally 100% agree. I am sick and tired of people like Mark and Lacross spamming multiple threads saying this is a scam. We need to understand that others will come to this website and pretend to be Ron Paul supporters. This blimp is totally legit and will likely make Ron Paul the story of the month(this on top of our Moneybomb). Everyone please fulfill your pledges or donate anyway if you haven't pledged. This blimp must get airborne!

Remember first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win .;) www.RonPaulBlimp.com

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 11:52 AM
The OP suggested that the salary should be 50K a month. Come on people, this is a scam.

You have a lawyer? You just called two honest people scam artists.

What do you have to say for yourself?

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 11:55 AM
[QUOTE
Well, some of us here like to try to protect others from scam artists. That is why we discuss issues and try to make sure no one gets hurt. However, anytime someone tells me not to bring up anything negative, I get suspicious. Honest people rarely stifle open debate. There has been an awful lot of mud slinging these days against anyone who dares to object to any project. It is very sad.

Trevor and Elijah are scam artists, huh?

This is all for your concerne for people who want to buy airtime space?

I am keeping a list of every single one of you who are besmirching two very good people's names. This is not tolerable, and unless you have evidence its a scam, you had best keep your mouth shut.

leipo
12-02-2007, 11:55 AM
You have a lawyer? You just called two honest people scam artists.

What do you have to say for yourself?

I'm talking about the legal team. Do you really think trevor & elijah are competent enough to pull this scam?

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 12:01 PM
I'm talking about the legal team. Do you really think trevor & elijah are competent enough to pull this scam?

Again, you call them scam artists.

leipo
12-02-2007, 12:03 PM
Again, you call them scam artists.

No, i did not. I'm calling the legal team scam artists. I don't think Trevor & Elijah have anything to do with the current set-up besides maybe signing the contract.

NewEnd
12-02-2007, 12:09 PM
No, i did not. I'm calling the legal team scam artists. I don't think Trevor & Elijah have anything to do with the current set-up besides maybe signing the contract.

You called the whole thing a scam, that includes Trevor and Elijah

and if you aren't calling Trevor and Elijah scam artists, what are you proposing the scam is now? That the lawyers are going to run away with all the money?

torchbearer
12-02-2007, 12:13 PM
If the incentive of them making some money gets us a freaking blimp in the air what is wrong with that? You don't believe you should pay people for their work? You expect everyone here to give freely in the name of Ron Paul. Be thankful when someone gives freely because they have granted you a privilege.

But of course, a privilege given is later a right expected.

Want to compete? I'm up for competition. Start a rival company and compete for our dollars. Let the free market decide... not a handful of apologist who scare people with boogeymen.
Why wouldn't you want to support an advertising company that is started up by our supporters? Jealousy? I invite you to do your own projects, in the way you see fit... and let the competition of ideas begin.

Trevor has done a lot of work for my campaign... so stop hating on him. He's legit.

leipo
12-02-2007, 12:31 PM
You called the whole thing a scam, that includes Trevor and Elijah

and if you aren't calling Trevor and Elijah scam artists, what are you proposing the scam is now? That the lawyers are going to run away with all the money?

I don't know. What i do know is that collecting non-refundable money without disclosing the financial details is very simular to a classic scam set-up.

torchbearer
12-02-2007, 12:41 PM
I don't know. What i do know is that collecting non-refundable money without disclosing the financial details is very simular to a classic scam set-up.

No a classic scam setup promises you every assurance that you will get you refund if you need it, and then after you donate, they disappear. These people are being honest. They need the money, and they need to know that its real, and not a prank. As in, I donate $300,000 tomorrow, pressers go out about, everyone is hyped, then later after everything is getting started and the money is invested, I want my refund. See the problem? It would royally screw the people involved. They are protecting their asses the same way I would.

torchbearer
12-02-2007, 12:45 PM
Remember the wonkette guy and his fake pledges? If refunds were the policy, he could donate all the money we need, and then request a refund of all it as soon as we get everything started and destroy the whole project.

slantedview
12-02-2007, 12:49 PM
No, i did not. I'm calling the legal team scam artists. I don't think Trevor & Elijah have anything to do with the current set-up besides maybe signing the contract.
the former FEC chairman a scam artist? you're on crack. quit posting in this forum.

leipo
12-02-2007, 12:49 PM
My point is that they shouldn't collect money before deciding & disclosing the financial details.
Especially concerning salaries.

eric_cartman
12-02-2007, 12:50 PM
this blimp thing is getting totally rediculous!

WE DON'T HAVE ANSWERS TO BASIC, SIMPLE QUESTIONS!

1) How much money is Elijah and Trevor paying themselves per month? A total cost breakdown needs to be given.

2) How much money needs to be collected to have the blimp in boston by dec. 15th?

3) By what date does this money have to be raised in order to have the blimp in boston by dec. 15th?

4) With only about 20K donated, do you really think we can raise hundreds of thousands of dollars within the next few days?

5) If the money can't be raised in time to get the blimp to the tea party... what happens to the money donated? If not enough money is raised, will people get a refund? Will Elijah and Trevor still be paying themselves or be spending donated money if the blimp doesn't fly?

I'm not saying that Elijah and Trevor are trying to scam us... but they might as well be. The end result will be the same. They wont raise enough money, especially not in time for the tea party. There has been no mention of donations being returned. And some or all of the donations will be used to pay for lawyers fees, and other random costs, so that people will not get a full refund, if they even get any refund at all.

These guys need to start answering some serious questions. Otherwise, we will have no blimp for the tea party, and ron paul supporters who donated to the tea party are going to lose their money.

I think it's already too late to have the blimp in boston in time for the tea party... but if the official campaign took this project over, they could probably make it happen if they acted now.

slantedview
12-02-2007, 12:51 PM
My point is that they shouldn't collect money before deciding & disclosing the financial details.
Especially concerning salaries.
if you bought advertising from any other company, you think they'd tell you what their salaries are?

torchbearer
12-02-2007, 12:52 PM
My point is that they shouldn't collect money before deciding & disclosing the financial details.
Especially concerning salaries.

You made your point... you are telling people here its a classic scam. We got it. :rolleyes:

Next concern to be addressed?

leipo
12-02-2007, 12:52 PM
again, you're on crack. if you bought advertising from any other company, you think they'd tell you what their salaries are?

So this is just "any other company" to you? Ok, i guess that ends our discussion.

slantedview
12-02-2007, 12:52 PM
but if the official campaign took this project over, they could probably make it happen if they acted now.

it's not happening and posting the same comment over and over won't make it happen... it will only make you a troll.

slantedview
12-02-2007, 12:54 PM
So this is just "any other company" to you? Ok, i guess that ends our discussion.
of course it's not, but it's not necessarily our "right" to know all of the financial details. if you want to buy airtime, buy it. else don't bother those who support the project.

torchbearer
12-02-2007, 12:54 PM
I'm not saying that Elijah and Trevor are trying to scam us... but they might as well be. The end result will be the same. They wont raise enough money, especially not in time for the tea party. There has been no mention of donations being returned. And some or all of the donations will be used to pay for lawyers fees, and other random costs, so that people will not get a full refund, if they even get any refund at all.

If the project is going to fail why are you bother discussing it... move on. You want to know details, but then say it doesn't matter because its going to fail. Then why say anything at all...?

leipo
12-02-2007, 12:58 PM
of course it's not, but it's not necessarily our "right" to know all of the financial details. if you want to buy airtime, buy it. else don't bother those who support the project.

Of course, it's our right to know.
I'd like to quote macdee's unanswered question from another thread:

"Why isn’t there some kind of independent oversight to protect the interest of contributors?"

torchbearer
12-02-2007, 12:58 PM
So this is just "any other company" to you? Ok, i guess that ends our discussion.

I would rather support an advertising company owned by Ron Paul supporters. Wouldn't you?

leipo
12-02-2007, 12:58 PM
I'm gonna leave it at this for now. I'm out of here.

slantedview
12-02-2007, 12:59 PM
Of course, it's our right to know.
I'd like to quote macdee's unanswered question from another thread:

"Why isn’t there some kind of independent oversight to protect the interest of contributors?"
if you think you can organize this, feel free to do so.

torchbearer
12-02-2007, 01:07 PM
Of course, it's our right to know.
I'd like to quote macdee's unanswered question from another thread:

"Why isn’t there some kind of independent oversight to protect the interest of contributors?"

Oh, and you have no right to know. Its a private entity. If you don't like it, start your own blimp project and run it the way you see fit. How about do something productive? Don't like it the way it is? It's not going to change... so start a different projects.

Sincere questions are important but 20 pages of the same drool over and over is a bit much.. either its a lack of communication, an inability for you to comprehend, or just simple trollery. I don't think its the last one... so if you don't get...and if you don't get it after 15 threads and 40,000 post, then you never will... don't waste your time even worrying about this project. It's not yours to control. Either support, or not support.

Additionally, if you want answers, ask the people themselves... better yet.. ask their attorney. Here is his email: bsmith (at) law.capital.edu
He will give you all the info you need and desire. You want answers.. i give you the person who has them. Now either email him for the real answers, or continue trolling.

http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp

eric_cartman
12-02-2007, 01:17 PM
[ Admin - cut unproven claims against forum members ]

slantedview
12-02-2007, 01:22 PM
Do you have any proof that this is a scam other than your vague speculations? Get out, troll.

vague speculations. he's trolling. his post has been reported as such. feel free to report it yourself as well.

Jagwarr
12-02-2007, 01:29 PM
Rory you have 80 posts in 24 hours and every one of them is touting the Blimp? Whats your other forum names. Is ghosting allowed on these forums?

slantedview
12-02-2007, 01:30 PM
fine... go ahead... report me.... in a couple weeks, you'll see i'm right.
can you ask your crystal ball to check the weather here for me? i'd like to know in advance whether i'll need my overcoat on monday.

OptionsTrader
12-02-2007, 01:30 PM
As someone that pledged to donate to the original concept, I have an opinion that you can either ignore or listen to.

There was nothing about profit-making in the original pitch of this idea. This whole thing has taken a turn away from what I thought it was going to be when I pledged money. One month of a blimp flying around for $350,000. I advise getting back to that or you risk seriously causing problems in the grassroots who work a lot of hours with zero pay and do not ask for a dime.

The question is about scope, not about how the money will be taken in.

Why has the scope changed from $350,000 for one month to a business costing millions with no end in sight?

This was to be a PR stunt, knowing full well that a blimp in the air for more than a month is a poor use of funds, we all know this. But the concept was a very limited in duration, very inexpensie operation, with artwork thrown in by the blimp company, at their loss. The one month scope and cost of $350,000 has morphed into something lasting much longer and costing much more than anyone who has pledged signed up to. This idea that was to be a one time PR stunt, has creeped into a business opportunity and I for one find that dishonest. Blame it on "the legal team's recomendations" all you want, but I would prefer getting back to the original scope. One month. $350,000. Accept the cash however you decide.

The original idea took into account that the cost for one month was only tolerable because the planners realized it was merely a PR stunt. It is was not going to be a 1 year long money pit.

slantedview
12-02-2007, 01:33 PM
As someone that pledged to donate to the original concept, I have an opinion that you can either ignore or listen to.

There was nothing about profit-making in the original pitch of this idea. This whole thing has taken a turn away from what I thought it was going to be when I pledged money. One month of a blimp flying around for $350,000. I advise getting back to that or you risk seriously causing problems in the grassroots who work a lot of hours with zero pay and do not ask for a dime.

The question is about scope, not about how the money will be taken in.

Why has the scope changed from $350,000 for one month to a business costing millions with no end in sight?
at this point, you're just a nuissance. i ALREADY ANSWERED several of the things you're asking here again.

company/profit making has been answered.
scope has been answered. you don't agree with it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been answered. posting again and again and again won't change the answer that has been given.

cien750hp
12-02-2007, 01:36 PM
The OP suggested that the salary should be 50K a month. Come on people, this is a scam.

im not officially involved with this, but i have talked to them and if you look into it more you can figure out this is legit. stop getting it into your head that its a scam. everything has an explanation and they are trustworthy guys.
and i think i said 45-50 grand. that would be reasonable for where we live.
i live not too far from the guy. the cost of living here is higher.
middle of kansas vs. new york city vs miami vs wyoming vs seattle are all going to have different costs. 45 grand here is about what school teachers make.

torchbearer
12-02-2007, 01:36 PM
As someone that pledged to donate to the original concept, I have an opinion that you can either ignore or listen to.

There was nothing about profit-making in the original pitch of this idea. This whole thing has taken a turn away from what I thought it was going to be when I pledged money. One month of a blimp flying around for $350,000. I advise getting back to that or you risk seriously causing problems in the grassroots who work a lot of hours with zero pay and do not ask for a dime.

The question is about scope, not about how the money will be taken in.

Why has the scope changed from $350,000 for one month to a business costing millions with no end in sight?

This was to be a PR stunt, knowing full well that a blimp in the air for more than a month is a poor use of funds, we all know this. But the concept was a very limited in duration, very inexpensie operation, with artwork thrown in by the blimp company, at their loss. The one month scope and cost of $350,000 has morphed into something lasting much longer and costing much more than anyone who has pledged signed up to. This idea that was to be a one time PR stunt, has creeped into a business opportunity and I for one find that dishonest. Blame it on "the legal team's recomendations" all you want, but I would prefer getting back to the original scope. One month. $350,000. Accept the cash however you decide.

The original idea took into account that the cost for one month was only tolerable because the planners realized it was merely a PR stunt. It is was not going to be a 1 year long money pit.


Ever stop to think that original idea was tossed around with their FEC attorney, and he changed the project to maximize its potential?

What is wrong with the people actually doing the sweating in this project making a profit? They are basically asking us to support their advertising company so they can support Ron Paul. I don't see what is wrong with supporting an advertising company that is owned by Ron Paul supporters.

Jagwarr
12-02-2007, 01:39 PM
Why are they flying around with the blimp to begin with? Are they experts in economics or something? I understand Trevor used someone else's idea and made a website for the money bomb but do we really want that worn out message to be what media hears over and over again for a year?

stefans
12-02-2007, 01:44 PM
at this point, you're just a nuissance. i ALREADY ANSWERED several of the things you're asking here again.


can you also answer the
$25 for a minute * 60 hours = $90k
but $50k for 60 hours = $50k
question?

google withholds 40k of processing costs? I don't think so.

jcims
12-02-2007, 01:48 PM
can you also answer the
$25 for a minute * 60 hours = $90k
but $50k for 60 hours = $50k
question?

google withholds 40k of processing costs? I don't think so.

it's a simple tiered pricing plan, i don't see anything unusual about it

Jagwarr
12-02-2007, 01:50 PM
If this blimp idea goes forward they need to get a Matlock look alike to travel around with it and have him explain why Dr. Paul's platform will benefit the AARP. Seniors are the largest voting block and it seems they are being ignored.

We really don't need a couple of very young dudes representing Dr. Paul in the media and at the Blimp rallies at this point. Those guys can stay home and keep thier current jobs, this would indeed be the best for the campaign.

hillertexas
12-02-2007, 01:53 PM
Why are they flying around with the blimp to begin with? Are they experts in economics or something? I understand Trevor used someone else's idea and made a website for the money bomb but do we really want that worn out message to be what media hears over and over again for a year?

that's a good point...having the face of the next money bomb be someone other than Trevor would be more effective...

"Money Bomb 5 times bigger than the last and it is the work of yet another unknown"
rather than
"Trevor does it again"

stefans
12-02-2007, 01:54 PM
it's a simple tiered pricing plan, i don't see anything unusual about it

I do. it's another hint that it's a for-profit company not only for legal reasons but to make a profit.
a very large one.

Melissa
12-02-2007, 02:02 PM
wow this is when our differences show. First I want to say that I read this forum everyday but have NEVER read ONE thread about the blimp

I do not want to donate to it. Now that being said I finally read this thread today and here are my conclusions

1. Really if you don’t want to donate -don’t and leave others alone and stop posting I don’t want to donate to a blimp so I don’t read the threads, see how easy that is

2.All this yelling about this guy's salary for this wow this is the free market at work and we are bitching about it. these guys liked Dr. Paul for president so they did some things to promote that idea to others, then low and behold they found a new talent they had and figured out a way to earn a living promoting something they already wanted to promote. --great Not a job no more but a career for these guys--too cool that we maybe got to see this happen and watch as their marketing skills come together.

But once again if you don’t want to hire these guys and pay them a salary don’t and leave the thread postings to others.

Don’t worry wont post anymore on this thread have other areas that I am better at like talking to people at my local town and going to my local GOP, so find what you want to do and leave others to choose for themselves ---I thought that was Dr. Paul’s message that true freedom is the right to choose unless you are harming others and I see no harm here. Just couple of guys that want to do for a living what they love most-To promote Ron Paul to the President of the Unites States in 2008

slantedview
12-02-2007, 02:05 PM
Thanks Melissa.

All, see this thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=45905

stefans
12-02-2007, 02:06 PM
1. Really if you don’t want to donate -don’t and leave others alone and stop posting I don’t want to donate to a blimp so I don’t read the threads, see how easy that is


eric posted a good explanation why we care even if we don't donate(although I've pledged to do so):
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=45722&page=12#119

Melissa
12-02-2007, 02:10 PM
Stefens you are going to make me post again. your argument is so false. You suggest i read that other forum link to show that people dont know where there money is going because they are just "average supporters" the point is if people dont watch and look at something before they give thier money then we have to protect them. wow isnt that what they government is doing with our money

torchbearer
12-02-2007, 02:14 PM
If you really want the answer, direct all your concerns to someone who can give you definitive answers: Here is his email: bsmith (at) law.capital.edu
http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp

He has been retained to represent the company and should be able to address all of your concerns...

Everyone else who just wishes to flame, please continue.

koob
12-02-2007, 02:18 PM
Stefens you are going to make me post again. your argument is so false. You suggest i read that other forum link to show that people dont know where there money is going because they are just "average supporters" the point is if people dont watch and look at something before they give thier money then we have to protect them. wow isnt that what they government is doing with our money

excellent point. if someone argues that we need to help others because they can't help themselves than that someone needs to switch their vote to someone other than ron paul.

eric_cartman
12-02-2007, 02:19 PM
[ Admin - removed unsupported accusations ]

torchbearer
12-02-2007, 02:20 PM
Stefens you are going to make me post again. your argument is so false. You suggest i read that other forum link to show that people dont know where there money is going because they are just "average supporters" the point is if people dont watch and look at something before they give thier money then we have to protect them. wow isnt that what they government is doing with our money

I know Trevor, he has worked for my campaign. This is not fraud. To state otherwise is to purposefully scare people away.

slantedview
12-02-2007, 02:22 PM
these people are using lies and deceptions to get people to fund their private company.
quit trolling. get lost. you're not helping anyone spouting BS you know nothing about.

stefans
12-02-2007, 02:28 PM
Stefens you are going to make me post again. your argument is so false. You suggest i read that other forum link to show that people dont know where there money is going because they are just "average supporters" the point is if people dont watch and look at something before they give thier money then we have to protect them. wow isnt that what they government is doing with our money

sorry, but that's bs.
looking out for other "customers" and preventing a desaster for the whole grassroots campaign has nothing to do with government intervention.

Melissa
12-02-2007, 02:28 PM
I am not stating they are fraud at all-I just think it is weird that people are yelling about this project-in the sense get the proposal from Trevor or whomever- as you would for any business you want to use and if you like it pay for that service if you don’t -don’t!! And if you think you can do it better then pay for your own blimp and fly it how you want and you don’t use Trevor's service--that was all my point was

Melissa
12-02-2007, 02:30 PM
Oh yes stefens protect others how noble has anyone asked you to protect them if so why dont you just tell them you dont like the project and not to put thier money in it.. That would be the best way to handle it

stefans
12-02-2007, 02:32 PM
Oh yes stefens protect others how noble has anyone asked you to protect them if so why dont you just tell them you dont like the project and not to put thier money in it.. That would be the best way to handle it

I don't know if my comments have "protected" anyone.
I know that I'm very grateful to those who started talking about all the problems mentioned above so I could inform myself and make an informed decision not to donate.
that's all I'm trying to do for others.

Melissa
12-02-2007, 02:38 PM
ok so you are not donating great now you dont have to post anymore see how easy that is

stefans
12-02-2007, 02:38 PM
ok so you are not donating great now you dont have to post anymore see how easy that is

you didn't listen.

Melissa
12-02-2007, 02:40 PM
i know you are a noble guy that has to protect others got it well my work is done at least showed that you are not donating and why you guys that keep posting negatives look so silly

stefans
12-02-2007, 02:43 PM
i know you are a noble guy that has to protect others got it well my work is done at least showed that you are not donating and why you guys that keep posting negatives look so silly

fyi, I was posting very positive about the whole idea, pledged, and planned to donate.

Melissa
12-02-2007, 03:10 PM
again you are not understanding free markets-let these guy make a pitch with a price and if people don't like it they dont donate for it-and if you think you can do better (As in free markets) you do research state a price and see if any one wants to back your bid- and if you dont want to do any of this then you leave and dont donate to this but like the free market unless you actully have been conned by these guys you have no buiness posting.

stefans
12-02-2007, 03:38 PM
again you are not understanding free markets-let these guy make a pitch with a price and if people don't like it they dont donate for it-and if you think you can do better (As in free markets) you do research state a price and see if any one wants to back your bid- and if you dont want to do any of this then you leave and dont donate to this but like the free market unless you actully have been conned by these guys you have no buiness posting.

I don't think that's the place for a philosophical debate, but do you honestly think consumers or would-be consumers should just shut up if they don't like a product in a free market?
then you obviously disagree with ron paul who advocates quality control of products by individuals and consumer groups instead of government regulations.

schmeisser
12-02-2007, 03:43 PM
We won't see these people leave until either the project fails through their efforts or succeeds despite them. Then they will move on to the next project that begins to gain momentum.

They are not trolls (mostly), and they are RP supporters (mostly). Over and above this, they are "destructionists". These are the same type of people that will knock down snowmen and sand castles when nobody is looking. They are probably young, and certainly immature in their belief systems/philosophy.

They likely consider themselves anarchists, minarchists, or libertarians; however, they have not yet formed a coherent framework of thought that would make them any of those things. Therefore, they resort to a simpleton's view of those philosopies, which is destructionism.

They support RP only because he wishes to dismantle some things. If there were another candidate proposing to behead all members of government and then retire to his militia group in Wyoming, they would be on that board complaining that everyone who didn't add lawyers, clergy, and non-profits was an idiot.

Nothing to do but recognize them and work around them. They support RP, but he does not support their views.

This doesn't include some with well thought out and presented issues that deserve discussion, but the obvious few with nothing to add.

cero
12-02-2007, 04:45 PM
lol FOR REAL every time we get some new Idea rolling and its about to happen here come the damn trolls. We just need to ignore them.

OferNave
12-02-2007, 07:17 PM
I've met Trevor several times now. He has moved to New Hampshire to be part of the movement. I trust him, and will continue to do so until there's a specific and concrete reason not to. He has done as much for Ron Paul as anyone, and continues to be 100% committed.

I have also purchased time on the blimp. I want to see this thing fly. And I couldn't have done the blimp project better myself - not a chance.

Cyclone
12-02-2007, 09:48 PM
quit trolling. get lost. you're not helping anyone spouting BS you know nothing about.

Get off his back.

macdee
12-03-2007, 01:20 AM
Have you ever sat in a small “continuous improvement” department meeting at work to discuss ideas? It takes weeks to discuss each and every idea. Then even more weeks for them to decide what to put into practice. Then you have to get other people involved and spend time implementing the new procedures.

I can’t imagine having a meeting with hundreds of people each promoting their own ideas. That would take months to get everyone to agree on a plan of action. This Ron Paul blimp project has gone so far and so fast in getting all this work done! Makes my head spin! A few people who were not paying attention got left behind. They have to catch up and get with the program!

As long as there is written legally binding “full disclosure” concerning the funds raised and of all expenditures, I don’t see why anyone would still have issues. I want to see videos as progress is being made on the blimp artwork and the blimp itself posted on the blimp website. That would be a huge motivation to get things going!

Let’s get this done so all the pledges will start coming in! Nobody is going anywhere with the funds since there is going to be so much national and international media coverage on them there will be no place to go. I’m sure the feds are also watching this project closely too since its a Presidential campaign. So that’s a non issue at this point. Trevor Lyman is an honest man and he’s leading every aspect of this project. He needs to be on this full time!

If you still have any reservations, just do a Google search “Ron Paul Blimp” and you will see for yourself that we’re getting great media coverage already! Let’s just focus on making good on our pledges for the first month’s operation! What follows after that will take care of itself. There will be plenty of time to address issues as we go along. Lets keep moving forward!

Let’s get The Ron Paul R3VOLUTION blimp UP in the AIR for OUR TEA PARTY!!!

bbachtung
12-03-2007, 01:24 AM
and Jagwarr: yes, there is a $5000 limit, and money donated to the official campaign counts towards that.

NO IT DOESN'T. http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/citizens.shtml

superschupp
12-03-2007, 12:52 PM
I seems to me that the salaries are more than fair. Who works for 5 hundred bucks a week anymore.

As a business owner, I can assure you that this does not have the makings of a money making venture.

There is a lot risk in this plan and Trevor is taking it all.

~River~
12-03-2007, 01:07 PM
Really? where could I buy a blimp for $2 million?

Blimps-R-Us

rdeyoung
12-03-2007, 01:44 PM
..

Ball
12-03-2007, 08:51 PM
I think most people (myself included) were miffed that the project had grown all out of proportion (sound familiar?).

But, I think, in retrospect, they have been responsive to complaints, and will scale down as necessary.

This isn't an ordinary business where they're selling a product, or else there would be no call for transparency in the first place. It's being run for the benefit of the campaign, not their own pockets, and as such are expected to break even or less.

Profit is an excellent indicator of how to allocate resources, which is a point free market economists like Mises make all the time. A market of campaign ideas and materials is a good thing, but this model fails to include the grand complexity of society like how entrepreneurs first know which products to offer (like a simple blimp-for-a-month project, or some giant media service). This is also a point Austrian economists make, and sure the Blimp project may fail for not offering the exact blimp service we're after, but why ignore calls to make it the blimp project we really want by being responsive to criticism?

This wouldn't be an issue if there was already a blimp flying with a huge digital display you could buy time on.

Anyway, I 'bought' $25 of time, and I hope they 'succeed' well enough to fly.

kevin m
12-04-2007, 02:28 PM
Come on, 25 bucks or 100 bucks- what is the big deal? How much do you lose every day to the tax and spenders?
How much of a risk is it anyway? I buy more lotto tickets than that.
I paid my small pledge within 5 minutes of the start of collecting, why don't some of you big spenders shoot off your wallet instead of your mouth. I'll send a few more bucks next payday, every little bit helps.
I can't believe the whiners on here, don't we have a goal?
And thank you to all of the stand-up folks who stood by your pledges.

RON PAUL 2008

CJP
12-04-2007, 03:55 PM
The moment this became a money making business it stopped being grassroots.

Don't you know what "grassroots" means? It means efforts indepedent of the campaign. These people are trying to get something done. Something heroic, in fact. Why are so many of you throwing rocks at people working hard for our side?

People have to make money here or there. For example, should someone who has a business that makes campaign buttons work for free and ruin himself (and his family) because it would be "wrong" to take money from a worthy campaign?

Fortunately, most people understand that if you do something full-time and aren't sitting on pile of cash from elsewhere, you have to make some money from it or you don't get to eat. This is called "the real world."

Your post and others like it seem to display a knee-jerk bias against the idea of profit. Are you libertarians or are you leftists?

smartbandwidth
12-04-2007, 04:23 PM
>>Fortunately, most people understand that if you do something full-time and aren't sitting on pile of cash from elsewhere, you have to make some money from it or you don't get to eat. This is called "the real world."

Your post and others like it seem to display a knee-jerk bias against the idea of profit. Are you libertarians or are you leftists?>>

Most of the individuals in this movement have sacrificed a ton of time, energy and money to get us to where we are. We are all standing on the shoulders of so many patriots like Aaron Russo, G. Edward Griffin, Robert Schulz, Edwin Vieira - not to mention Ron Paul - who have paved the way to the clearing we find ourselves in today where we can even dream of supporting an idea as audacious as The Ron Paul Blimp spreading the word in support of Ron Paul's candidacy.

Liberty Advertising, LLC needs to take all comers from here on out. For example, here is a mobile billboard which We The People here in the upper midwest - WI, IL, IN and MI - would like to get on the road to fund a "Circle The Lake For Freedom" campaign that would bring this to every community that borders Lake Michigan. This mobile billboard could be used to rally the local meetup groups on the shores of Lake Michigan to connect, help and serve up this incredible grassroots energy to get out and do what has to be done - canvass, distribute yard signs, and phone bank - to really push for a successful run during this primary season.

Who do we contact at Liberty Advertising? Who's taking calls? Let's turn Liberty Adversising, LLC over to We The People.

fredricko
12-04-2007, 04:31 PM
I'm disappointed that this has, for the most part, degraded to shouting matches on both sides. I notice it seems to be a handful of posters making all the ruckus and I am wondering if anyone else feels the same. I certainly hope no one who recently has been turned on to RP is being directed to this forum.

There are legitimate concerns and I think there are also some people trolling. However, the best way to address both of these groups is to start posting calm, reasoned responses. Take the high ground.

For people with concerns, try not to use hyperbole to get your point across. Again, calm, reasoned questions will result in rational responses.

Both groups; don't be accusatory.

Pretend you are Ron Paul; ask the tough questions and present the facts while keeping a cool head.

Deep breaths...

Hopefully someone will read this...

areyou4real
12-04-2007, 10:40 PM
Having watched both RPR and the blimp explode into a fullblown pissfit over "going corporate", I have to say the grassroots has shown a side of itself that I never thought I'd see...especially coming from the so-called supporters of a free market candidate.

You're preaching to the choir. See my post here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=47043

torchbearer
12-05-2007, 12:12 AM
we have many socialist here for the anti-war reason.. they believe profit is evil...

RlxdN10sity
12-05-2007, 06:34 PM
Why can't the graphics on the blimp say "Ron Paul for President" ? I liked the original graphics promoting the campaign platform of peace, prosperity and liberty now it says google Ron Paul. Why is this? Thanks.

Focus Liberty
12-06-2007, 02:42 AM
The blimp is such a great opportunity. At the very least, people need to honor their pledges. This is a chance to do something really unique and powerful for Ron Paul that is going to capture the attention of millions. Please THINK out of the box people. Support this massive BLIMP.

american.swan
12-08-2007, 05:36 AM
At first I thought their salaries were high, but then again, they'll need it if there is a legal challenge.

I worry that part of the outside council is a Mitt supporter. Or at least that what I heard.

bootstrap
12-08-2007, 09:48 AM
Gads, been without power a few days and look what happens to the Ron Paul blimp project. :-o Without infinite time to figure out why some people need to make a profit while thousands of us others doing grassroots work only want to save this country from destruction... So let me ask a couple question that surely have been answered somewhere back along the road (but not easy to find)...

Am I correct that this floating billboard "enterprise" can now be rented by other presidential campaigns to display messages to *defeat* Ron Paul? In particular, certain very rich candidates? Or did I misinterpret one of the messages I read? And if I did not, this is consistent with getting donations from RP supporters? Hopefully I just misinterpreted something...

Why should some RP supporters make money on this, while 99.999% of us donate our time/effort/money to save this country from destruction? Maybe you have a legit answer, but without a good answer, it does have a strange odor.

It is almost too late to get this blimp to teaparty07. Not sure about NH and other voting. Is this gonna happen? How much is raised and needed to at least have it flying (for Ron Paul only) for one month?

This is not a criticism - I don't know enough about what happened to make any sense of it. If there is one or two messages with answers to all the above, simple links will be fine. Thanks.

Lacrosseus
12-08-2007, 10:16 AM
Gads, been without power a few days and look what happens to the Ron Paul blimp project. :-o

I believe that *THIS* floating billboard is leased by Liberty Advertising to support Ron Paul -- with the funds coming from a grass roots effort. It would be possible for another blimp to be leased by another group or individual, and Liberty Advertising could in theory be retained to manage that project.

Liberty Advertising could also be retained to manage other projects -- Trevor obviously has the ability to effectively market on the net and other candidates for office would surely be interested in having him for work them. Personally, I am hoping this is the case -- there is only one Ron Paul out there but we needed 100's of them, and if Liberty advertising can help them -- we will all be better off for it.

Make a profit/ take a salary... some of the blimp team members will take a small salary on this project. This project requires many people to work full-time, and some have been working (Elijah) way beyond 40 hours a week. You may have the financial ability to volunteer full-time but most of us do not. This issue has been fully vetted over the last several days and I am sure there are thousands of message for and against this but the general conclusion was that this is not a major issue and the talk had died down until your power came back on (we had bribed someone to keep it off for two weeks, but that obviously didn't work).

As far as the weather is concerned. If you have the ability to help out with this, I would be willing to pay you a salary myself to work for me! I will retain Trevor to market a for-profit business and we will all be wealthy! Actually, I have not followed the latest on this, but I think they have some room to play with the launch date and still make it to the teaparty.

bootstrap
12-08-2007, 10:32 AM
I believe that *THIS* floating billboard is leased by Liberty Advertising to support Ron Paul -- with the funds coming from a grass roots effort. It would be possible for another blimp to be leased by another group or individual, and Liberty Advertising could in theory be retained to manage that project.Okay, I have no problem with people making a living, but if these guys are willing to support any other ***presidential*** candidate, they are *****not***** RP supporters (no matter what they say, claim, did-before).


Liberty Advertising could also be retained to manage other projects -- Trevor obviously has the ability to effectively market on the net and other candidates for office would surely be interested in having him for work them. Personally, I am hoping this is the case -- there is only one Ron Paul out there but we needed 100's of them, and if Liberty advertising can help them -- we will all be better off for it.You will not find 100 people like RP, not one person in a million is honest under the pressures like RP has faced. Don't kid yourself.


Make a profit/ take a salary... some of the blimp team members will take a small salary on this project. This project requires many people to work full-time, and some have been working (Elijah) way beyond 40 hours a week. You may have the financial ability to volunteer full-time but most of us do not. This issue has been fully vetted over the last several days and I am sure there are thousands of message for and against this but the general conclusion was that this is not a major issue and the talk had died down until your power came back on (we had bribed someone to keep it off for two weeks, but that obviously didn't work).So these payments are only a couple thousand per month (or so) as needed to pull it off? That seems reasonable. As does "getting rich" on *future* endeavors (even if they can do so only because they learned how to do it on the dime of RP supporters). But "big bucks" income from RP supporters is just pure BS. Glad to hear [I think I am hearing] this is not the case. Are you saying you are responsible for putting the southern half of Maui in the dark ages for several days? If so, a few island dwellers might just pay to give you a free plane ticket to Maui. I'll see you are met at the airport with leis [and rope?].


As far as the weather is concerned. If you have the ability to help out with this, I would be willing to pay you a salary myself to work for me! I will retain Trevor to market a for-profit business and we will all be wealthy! Actually, I have not followed the latest on this, but I think they have some room to play with the launch date and still make it to the teaparty.So they are on the verge of having enough dough [promised]? We are down to ~1 week now for teaparty07. Is the new version of this project only gonna happen if it also becomes a huge multi-month endeavor? Are they renting or buying a blimp?

jjockers
12-08-2007, 10:48 AM
Okay, I have no problem with people making a living, but if these guys are willing to support any other ***presidential*** candidate, they are *****not***** RP supporters (no matter what they say, claim, did-before).

They have said before (can't find quote) that they would only accept sponsorship from people/companies whose core beliefs are in line with their company's: liberty.

Lacrosseus
12-08-2007, 01:25 PM
You will not find 100 people like RP, not one person in a million is honest under the pressures like RP has faced. Don't kid yourself.

I hope you are wrong... or else, we are sc***ed.


Are you saying you are responsible for putting the southern half of Maui in the dark ages for several days? If so, a few island dwellers might just pay to give you a free plane ticket to Maui. I'll see you are met at the airport with leis [and rope?].

Uhhh.... ummm... it was a fellow forum member's idea - Lucid American. Yeah, that's right... HE DID IT!.


So they are on the verge of having enough dough [promised]? Are they renting or buying a blimp?

Renting (or perhaps leasing is the term they are using). The company who owns the blimp allowed Liberty Advertising to start using it if they could put 200k down -- which was accomplished on Friday afternoon at 11:15 AM Eastern. So it flys with Ron Pauls name on it as soon as the weather permits. We (the grassroots effort) still need to come up with another 150K +/- to secure the blimp for 30 days. Of course, it would be nice to continue to fly it as long as it would be of value to our efforts but we need to continue to promote the project if we want that to happen.

bootstrap
12-08-2007, 02:49 PM
I hope you are wrong... or else, we are sc***ed.Yes, I am 99.999% certain we are already far beyond the point of no return --- even if Ron Paul wins the election (and is re-elected for 8 years total). The only hope I can imagine requires RP agree to permit extremely aggressive government programs to lock up traitors --- where traitors include everyone who seriously proposes the government violate individual rights. The fact is, the entire USSA has already been overthrown without a revolution - individual rights have been utterly and totally destroyed, and virtually every living american has habituated the corrupt mental processes of anti-liberty authoritarians. Unless extremely aggressive self-protecting institutions are established during his terms to arrest and imprison traitors, the country will almost certainly revert to authoritarianism soon after his terms end. I mean really, no people in the history of the universe (as far as we know) have ever had a more pro-liberty intellectual infrastructure to live and work within --- yet americans totally pissed it away. The changes I mention above must be a part of a compete overall policy of "honesty", which has been utterly destroyed in the USSA (and world-wide for the most part). For example, "let the buyer beware" must be replaced with "every executive of every company that issues ANY clearly false or misleading information (about their products or in their contracts) must be immediately jailed for 10~20 years minimum upon conviction. In other words, the recognition and prosecution of fraud ***must*** be reinstated in the USSA and understood to be necessary, otherwise no long-term hope is remotely possible. I am 100% clear and certain about that. But how likely is it that RP would allow one of his appointees to establish a thoroughly ethical and sufficiently aggressive justice department like this? I suspect he is not "strong enough" (in a certain manner of speaking) to fully and strongly-enough reverse the trend in only 8 years. Obviously I hope I am wrong about how serious he is, and of course he could not mention this yet!


Uhhh.... ummm... it was a fellow forum member's idea - Lucid American. Yeah, that's right... HE DID IT!.Uh, huh... Well, tell him a free ticket to Maui awaits him. Is "surfboarding" considered torture?


Renting (or perhaps leasing is the term they are using). The company who owns the blimp allowed Liberty Advertising to start using it if they could put 200k down -- which was accomplished on Friday afternoon at 11:15 AM Eastern. So it flys with Ron Pauls name on it as soon as the weather permits. We (the grassroots effort) still need to come up with another 150K +/- to secure the blimp for 30 days. Of course, it would be nice to continue to fly it as long as it would be of value to our efforts but we need to continue to promote the project if we want that to happen.Well, if you are correct about everything, it does sound okay enough. Wish it wasn't a little fishy looking, but I'm satisfied now, pending information to the contrary.