Malaysia Airlines passenger jet reportedly shot down in Ukraine

[wizardwatson]

Damn those Ruskies.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-jet-reportedly-crashes-in-ukraine/

But seriously. I will be in the future paying attention to countries I'm flying over.

All we know so far is it was likely shot down. But I'm guessing it will take no more than 24 hours before the MSM blames Russia. Maybe for being ticked about the sanctions.

[ClydeCoulter]

Damn those Ruskies.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-jet-reportedly-crashes-in-ukraine/

But seriously. I will be in the future paying attention to countries I'm flying over.

All we know so far is it was likely shot down. But I'm guessing it will take no more than 24 hours before the MSM blames Russia. Maybe for being ticked about the sanctions.

Will you come back and tell us what it's like? j/k (commas can make a difference) :)

[ClydeCoulter]

Seriously, though.

Pretense for war? I hope not. Still, it's sad that people lost their lives, leaving behind loved ones, because of this!

[wizardwatson]

Seriously, though.

Pretense for war? I hope not. Still, it's sad that people lost their lives, leaving behind loved ones, because of this!

There is already war there. The difference here is that so far all the civilian casualties have been on the rebel side at the hands of US puppet Ukraine. Now we have the Ruskie rebels killing 300 all in one shot.

That is a huge development.

[IPSecure]

...by a missile fired from a Buk launcher.

How do they know this?

[chudrockz]

Seriously, though.

Pretense for war? I hope not. Still, it's sad that people lost their lives, leaving behind loved ones, because of this!

CNN is saying now that TWO Malaysian Airlines flights are down.

[wizardwatson]

This has false flag written all over it.

[wizardwatson]

CNN is saying now that TWO Malaysian Airlines flights are down.

Maybe they are talking about the one Malaysia lost in the ocean months back?

[chudrockz]

Maybe they are talking about the one Malaysia lost in the ocean months back?

Correct. I just listened to the audio again. Thanks.

[William Tell]

I don't think I like either side.

[chudrockz]

I don't think I like either side.

Me neither, but as "our" government likes one side, this has the potential to be huge.

[wizardwatson]

Me neither, but as "our" government likes one side, this has the potential to be huge.

Well, usa JUST YESTERDAY imposed unilateral sanctions on Russia for "not doing enough to deescalate tensions". Now we have this huge ordeal of -as the pro Ukraine twittersphere calls them- these "apes with guns" being out of control. Now the US can say the blame is directly on Russia. US will twist this against Russia.

[CaseyJones]

title edited

[wizardwatson]

title edited

Come on Casey, "Evil Putin shoots down Malaysian passenger jet says Nazi Ukraine" was just my attempt to get ahead of the MSM narrative on one side, and Russia Todays labeling of Ukraine as Nazi controlled from the other.

Just trying to be ahead of the curve.

:D

[William Tell]

Come on Casey, "Evil Putin shoots down Malaysian passenger jet says Nazi Ukraine" was just my attempt to get ahead of the MSM narrative on one side, and Russia Todays labeling of Ukraine as Nazi controlled from the other.

Just trying to be ahead of the curve.

:D

For the record, Putin is KGB, so he's really a Stalinist.

[ClydeCoulter]

IF someone was going to go to war, would they:

A: Shoot down a passenger plane
B: Blitz the opponent

?

[acptulsa]

How do they know this?

That would be the sixty-four thousand dollar question.


This has false flag written all over it.

Yeah, when they begin stating 'facts' they couldn't possibly know yet, that's the first conclusion any rational person should jump to. Especially if all the headlines are suspiciously unanimous.

[presence]

Malaysian passenger plane goes missing over Ukraine (http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/world/2014/07/17/passenger-plane-carrying-shot-down-adviser-ukrainian-official-says/m1sQJvByNCi7Vn5ncwEAjL/story.html)

Boston Globe-6 minutes ago
KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — A Ukrainian official said a passenger plane carrying 295 people was shot down Thursday over a town in the east of the ...

Malaysia Airlines passenger jet reportedly shot down in Ukraine (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-jet-reportedly-crashes-in-ukraine/)
Fox News-37 minutes ago
Ukraine says Malaysian airliner shot down, 295 dead: agency (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/us-ukraine-crash-airplane-idUSKBN0FM1TU20140717)
Reuters UK-32 minutes ago
Malaysian passenger plane shot down over east Ukraine, Kiev says (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/malaysian-passenger-plane-crashes-in-east-ukraine-near-russian-border/article19654868/)
The Globe and Mail-34 minutes ago
Airliner 'shot down' over Ukraine new A Malaysia Airlines plane with ... (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-30439934.html)
In-Depth-Belfast Telegraph-32 minutes ago
Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10974050/Malaysian-plane-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html)
Live Updating-Telegraph.co.uk-36 minutes ago
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nepYIjgmWRo/default.jpg►►YouTube
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nepYIjgmWRo)https://i.ytimg.com/vi/g5azflHhZJw/default.jpg►►YouTube
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5azflHhZJw)https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GF3L2fWsOg4/default.jpg►►NDTV

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF3L2fWsOg4)Telegraph.co.uk

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10974050/Malaysian-plane-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html)The Globe and Mail

(http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/malaysian-passenger-plane-crashes-in-east-ukraine-near-russian-border/article19654868/)The Wire
(http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/07/malaysian-passenger-plane-crashes-in-ukraine-near-russian-border/374616/)

Explore in depth (https://news.google.com/news?ncl=dWr1no_zK7bMs5M5aZqVXFW-aEHhM&q=Passenger+Airliner+shot+down+over+Ukraine&lr=English&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZPrHU7m1LMSzyASy1oLQDQ&ved=0CCgQqgIwAA)(398 more articles)
WCNC
(http://www.wcnc.com/news/world/Official-Malaysian-plane-shot-down-over-Ukraine-267511561.html)Malaysian passenger plane shot down in Ukraine, interior minister ... (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/17/malaysian-passenger-plane-shot-down-ukraine-interi/)

Washington Times-by Andrew P. Napolitano (https://plus.google.com/105346451105849976845)-49 minutes ago
KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — A Ukrainian official said a passenger plane carrying 295 people was shot down Thursday over a town in the east of the ...
Hartlepool Mail
(http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/uk/bbc-to-cut-jobs-in-savings-plan-1-6734212)Airliner carrying 295 'shot down' new (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysian-airline-amsterdam-flight-carrying-295-passengers-shot-down-in-ukraine-30439882.html)

Belfast Telegraph-34 minutes ago
The Interfax News Agency has claimed the plane 'was shot down at ... Ukrainian officials confirmed that 295 people died in the Malaysian ...
Malaysian passenger plane reportedly shot down over Ukraine (http://www.theverge.com/2014/7/17/5912507/malaysian-passenger-plane-reportedly-shot-down-over-ukraine)

The Verge-by Adi Robertson (https://plus.google.com/111887929623145205709)-48 minutes ago
Russian newswire service Interfax is reporting that a Malaysian passenger plane carrying 295 people was shot down with a Buk ground-to-air ...
ABC6OnYourSide.com
(http://abc6onyourside.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/malaysian-passenger-plane-shot-down-over-ukraine-33366.shtml)Passenger plane shot down over eastern Ukraine (http://www.inews880.com/2014/07/17/passenger-plane-shot-down-over-eastern-ukraine/)

iNews880.com-2 minutes ago
Officials say there were around 300 passengers on board the plane and all are presumed dead at this point. Ukraine's president has said the ...
US Treasuries rise after reports Malaysian airliner shot down (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/markets-usa-bonds-jetliner-idUSL2N0PS18A20140717)

Reuters-30 minutes ago
... after reports a Malaysian airliner was shot down over Ukraine by a ... ministry official, said the Malaysian passenger plane was shot down by ...
Telegraph.co.uk
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10973212/Ukraine-accuses-Russia-of-shooting-down-jet.html)Ukraine says rebels shoot down Malaysian airliner, 295 dead (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/us-ukraine-crisis-airplane-idUSKBN0FM22N20140717)

Reuters-3 minutes ago
The dead were 280 passengers and 15 crew. Malaysia Airlines said on ... "The last known position was over Ukrainian air space," it said. A rebel leader said Ukrainian forces shot the airliner down. Ukrainian official said their ...
Adviser to Ukraine's Interior Minister says passenger plane carrying ... (http://www.omaha.com/news/world/adviser-to-ukraine-s-interior-minister-says-passenger-plane-carrying/article_360877bb-8c4f-5cd6-9cad-8dca561833d6.html)

Omaha World-Herald-33 minutes ago
Adviser to Ukraine's Interior Minister says passenger plane carrying 295 shot down. Story · Comments. Print: Create a hardcopy of this page ...
Malaysian airliner crashes in east Ukraine: Reports (http://www.deccanherald.com/content/420275/malaysian-airliner-crashes-east-ukraine.html)

Deccan Herald-49 minutes ago
A Malaysian passenger plane that came down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday was shot down by a Buk ground-to-air missile, a Ukrainian ...
Binary Tribune
(http://www.binarytribune.com/2014/07/17/commodities-trading-outlook-gold-silver-and-copper-futures-72/)PRECIOUS-Gold rises 1.3 pct on Ukraine tension; palladium up (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/markets-precious-idUKL6N0PS51N20140717)

Reuters UK-23 minutes ago
... after a Ukrainian fighter plane was shot down over eastern Ukraine as ... report that a Malaysian passenger airliner with 295 people on board ...

..

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

why would they fly over a warzone in the first place

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Maybe I am just jaded but this stinks to high heaven.

[wizardwatson]

IF someone was going to go to war, would they:

A: Shoot down a passenger plane
B: Blitz the opponent

?

I think the grand design is to accelerate US economic collapse. These sanctions on Russia for instance hurt us, they don't help us. Stocks dropped on sanction news and now further on this airline shoot down news. So what appears to be isolating Russia/Syria/Iran is really isolating USA. They've already got this BRICS bank stuff going. It was reported long back that the big money powers are regrouping in Asia. Escalating Russia tensions I think is simply part of the end game so cripple US. My opinion anyway. And Obama seems to be doing everything he can with the border, and everything else to keep poking holes in the Titanic.

[thoughtomator]

Those of us awaiting the reappearance of the Flight MH370 have not been disappointed.

[Brian4Liberty]

All we know so far is it was likely shot down. But I'm guessing it will take no more than 24 hours before the MSM blames Russia. Maybe for being ticked about the sanctions.

It is being blamed on the Russians in just about every MSM headline.

[JK/SEA]

Maybe I am just jaded but this stinks to high heaven.

one day at a time...and if i don't get the chance because i've been vaporized, i just want to say i love all you guys and good luck....

[Brian4Liberty]

why would they fly over a warzone in the first place

Good question. A military jet was shot down there yesterday.

[presence]

some context:
http://www.thedailystar.net/ukraine-conflict-russia-accused-of-shooting-down-jet-33748


Andriy Lysenko, spokesman for the Ukrainian National Security and Defence Council, said an Su-25 ground attack plane was downed on Wednesday evening.

[]

The rebels say they shot down two Su-25 jets on Wednesday.

[]

Ukrainian officials also accused Russia of downing a transport plane earlier.
The An-26 plane was shot down by a missile over eastern Ukraine on Monday, with the loss or reported capture of its crew members.
Ukrainian officials sought to argue that pro-Russian separatist rebels could not have downed the plane because they lacked missiles to hit it at high altitude.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Good question. A military jet was shot down there yesterday.

Maybe there's a connection with the missing Malaysian flight earlier this year. They don't know where they're going.

[acptulsa]

Maybe I am just jaded but this stinks to high heaven.

Maybe you are jaded. But this stinks to high heaven in any case.


Ukrainian officials sought to argue that pro-Russian separatist rebels could not have downed the plane because they lacked missiles to hit it at high altitude.

Are they trying to implicate the Russian Army? Because they're doing a better job of implicating themselves.

[William Tell]

It is being blamed on the Russians in just about every MSM headline.

They did shoot down Larry McDonald in the 80's... Or captured the flight, still a lot of speculation about the disappearance of America's most Conservative Congressman.

[69360]

why would they fly over a warzone in the first place


That was my first thought. WTF is a civilian passenger jet doing in a warzone?

[HOLLYWOOD]

Well the CIA & MOSSAD are in the Ukraine, plus the Blackwater/XE/Academa mercenaries... they all love false flags to start wars
3 Months ago: Russia Accuses US Mercenaries Of Inciting Civil War In Ukraine
(http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-07/russia-accuses-us-mercenaries-inciting-civil-war-ukraine)
http://kwout.com/cutout/9/fp/6b/qs2_bor.jpg (http://flightaware.com/live/flight_track_bigmap.rvt?ident=MAS17-1405402620-airline-0291:0&airports=EHAM+WMKK&height=528&width=400&departuretime=1405593009&arrivaltime=)

FlightAware ✈ Flight Tracking Map ✈ Malaysia Airlines #17 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight_track_bigmap.rvt?ident=MAS17-1405402620-airline-0291:0&airports=EHAM+WMKK&height=528&width=400&departuretime=1405593009&arrivaltime=)

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140717/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

[presence]

Tube of smoke plume


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTCulEzHQh4

[presence]

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_29/Donetsk-militia-takes-control-of-Ukrainian-anti-air-installation-1561/


29 June, 18:30

Donetsk militia takes control of Ukrainian anti-air installation


http://cdn.ruvr.ru/2014/06/29/1505757999/9RIAN_00708636.LR.ru.jpg Photo: RIA Novosti


The self-defense forces of Donetsk People’s Republic seized control of a Ukrainian anti-air military installation, RIA Novosti reports.



"The forces of Donetsk People’s Republic assumed control of A-1402 military base," the militia's representative said. According to him, it is an anti-aircraft missile forces facility equipped with Buk mobile surface-to-air missile systems.
During the last several days the militia took control of two internal security troops' installations in eastern Ukraine.
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_29/Donetsk-militia-takes-control-of-Ukrainian-anti-air-installation-1561/




http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17-shot-down-over-donetsk-ukraine/

The missile used is likely to have been of the Russian-made BUK SA-11/17 families. The SA-11 has the more limited range of the two types, covering 100 – 46,000 ft; the SA-17 covers a range of up to 82,000 ft. Conventional passenger airliners cruise in the range of 30,000 to 40,000 ft. There is still considerable ambiguity (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/no-evidence-tying-russia-to-downed-ukrainian-aircraft/503588.html) about the precise nature of anti-air and air defense technology available to Ukrainian separatists at this time.

[donnay]

So they cannot find the missing Malaysian plane that allegedly went down but they know for a fact that this Malaysian plane was shot down?

I really loathe MSM.

[COpatriot]

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-25067-And-Here-We-Go-Joker-gif-Imgur-x71M.gif

[presence]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EAtNpsXrgWs

[Pericles]

They did shoot down Larry McDonald in the 80's... Or captured the flight, still a lot of speculation about the disappearance of America's most Conservative Congressman.

KAL007 - for just a moment there, I thought we were going to war.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Hope all those SAMs are accountable, then again who knows which side, has what, of this very moment. I hope; Victoria Nuland, John Kerry, John McCain, Chris Murphy, and Jeffery Pyatt, et al... are proud of their deadly "Operation Ukrainian Grab"


http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_29/Donetsk-militia-takes-control-of-Ukrainian-anti-air-installation-1561/



http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17-shot-down-over-donetsk-ukraine/

[supermario21]

Wouldn't surprise me if the Ukranian military shot it down.

[presence]

http://rusvesna.su/news/1404041521

Via Google Translate June 29th 2014:

In Donetsk, Donetsk Army Special Forces soldiers People's Republic captured the garrison of missile troops, anti-aircraft missile defense regiment number A-1402. In service parts are powerful air defense system of long-range detection and destruction of air targets.

The press service of the Interior Ministry of Ukraine in Donetsk region confirmed this information: "In Donetsk representatives" DNR "seized the military part number A-1402."

Military unit A1402 (Donetsk SAM regiment) formed in the village Alexeevka Belgorod-Dniester region Odessa region. In 2007, was made part of the redeployment of A1402 in Donetsk.

Donetsk missile regiment performs tasks for the protection of the eastern borders of the state and the protection of important industrial centers of Donbass air.

Recall that the Slavic and Donetsk shares 113 km. Depending on the modification of the air defense system "Dome" is capable of detecting targets at a distance of 150 km, the working range hitting target - setting fire propelled air defense system "Buk" in the area of ​​20 km.

http://rusvesna.su/sites/default/files/w_08fa0290.jpg

[Pericles]

That was my first thought. WTF is a civilian passenger jet doing in a warzone?

When you can't be sure about who controls an active ADIZ, that is putting a great deal of faith in your IFF transponder and who can read it.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Wouldn't surprise me if the Ukranian military shot it down.Hoping the Russia agencies were monitoring all RF signals(esp. communications), plus military forces activity in the Ukraine very closely. They were good at monitoring Victoria Nuland/Jeffery Pyatt's communications and exposed the invasion plans.

[Brian4Liberty]

Well the CIA & MOSSAD are in the Ukraine, plus the Blackwater/XE/Academa mercenaries... they all love false flags to start wars
3 Months ago: Russia Accuses US Mercenaries Of Inciting Civil War In Ukraine
(http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-07/russia-accuses-us-mercenaries-inciting-civil-war-ukraine)
http://kwout.com/cutout/9/fp/6b/qs2_bor.jpg (http://flightaware.com/live/flight_track_bigmap.rvt?ident=MAS17-1405402620-airline-0291:0&airports=EHAM+WMKK&height=528&width=400&departuretime=1405593009&arrivaltime=)

FlightAware ✈ Flight Tracking Map ✈ Malaysia Airlines #17 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight_track_bigmap.rvt?ident=MAS17-1405402620-airline-0291:0&airports=EHAM+WMKK&height=528&width=400&departuretime=1405593009&arrivaltime=)

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140717/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

Why are passenger jets flying over an active war zone where aircraft are being shot daily?

[HOLLYWOOD]

I noticed the exact same thing as Zerohedge, when I first went on Flight Aware, the plane's flight path ended just within the Ukrainian border with Poland(western Ukraine) After 10 minutes or so, when I started changing the mapping size, the flight path moved all the way to the ESE border of Ukraine. I thought that was weird. See ZH's first pic... that's exactly what I see/captured.

Here Is The Real-Time Flight Path Of The Shot Down Malaysian Airlines Flight MH 17

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/pictures/picture-5.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden)
Submitted by Tyler Durden (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden) on 07/17/2014 11:24 -0400



Ukraine (http://www.zerohedge.com/taxonomy_vtn/term/11710)


Update: reportedly Malaysia Airlines has confirmed that plane "Kuala Lumpur -Amsterdam" went off the radar in Donetsk oblast, possibly shot down"
First it was MH-370. Now, it appears tragedy has struck again, this time on Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17, on route from Amsteram to Kuala Lumpur, which disappeared from radar moments ago and was reportedly shot down over Ukraine. While there is nothing yet officially confirmed by the carrier, the radar tracked path of the airplane is shown below.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH176.jpg (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17)

And from a second source:
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20path%202_0.jpg (http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightTracker/flightTracker.do?id=405599863&airlineCode=MH&flightNumber=17)
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20path%203_0.jpg (http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightTracker/flightTracker.do?id=405599863&airlineCode=MH&flightNumber=17)

Last reported position log was at 1:20 pm UTC:

[TheTexan]

This has false flag written all over it.

My thoughts exactly.

[HOLLYWOOD]

One thing's for sure... stay the hell off Malaysian Airline flights, esp their Boeing 777. Did the Malaysian government piss off TPTB or something?

Boeing 777 plane -- Flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lampur with 294 people on board -- had its "last known position was over Ukraine airspace."

[William Tell]

KAL007 - for just a moment there, I thought we were going to war.

Our Gov probably paid them to do it.

[presence]

I noticed the exact same thing as Zerohedge,

[]

the radar tracked path of the airplane is shown below.


These aren't "radar tracked paths" they're extrapolated from various data sources including "arrival and departure time"


http://flightaware.com/about/faq#howlive



FlightAware

Where is this data from?
FlightAware compiles, aggregates, and processes data from over 45 government sources (in Europe, North America, and Oceania), dozens of airlines, commercial data providers, as well as hundreds of receivers in FlightAware's ADS-B flight tracking network (http://flightaware.com/adsb). FlightAware's proprietary algorithms calculate delay and arrival time estimates to offer the most up-to-date and reliable flight tracking data on the Internet.

How does FlightAware handle flights around the world? What is FlightAware's service area?
FlightAware's primary service area includes airspace operated by the United States (including Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto RIco, and Guam), Canada, the Caribbean, Australia, the United Kingdom, and France. Flights in the primary service area support real time maps, departure and arrival information, delays, and more.

FlightAware's secondary service covers scheduled major airline operations at any airport in the world. Flights in the secondary service area support departure and arrival information. Secondary coverage areas may have real-time positions for ADS-B equipped aircraft operating in FlightAware's ADS-B coverage (http://flightaware.com/adsb/coverage) area. Additionally, some airlines send FlightAware satellite position reports from aircraft worldwide that augments other position data and provides transoceanic coverage as well.

For flights arriving in a service area from outside of a service area, FlightAware will be able to track the flight when it nears a service area. For flights departing a service area, FlightAware will be able to track the flight until it leaves the coverage area. Flights may not be tracked beyond that point unless they enter another service area.

[invisible]

Maybe I am just jaded but this stinks to high heaven.

JD! Great to see you back, it's been a while. Hopefully things are going well for you.

[chudrockz]

I suppose that means this weekend we'll have to endure John McCain all over the tv foaming about how badly we need to invade Russia.

Edit - too late! Politico is already reporting that McCain has spouted that "there will be hell to pay" if the plane was shot down!

[HOLLYWOOD]

http://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works Reports MH17 flight as cancelled? WTF
http://kwout.com/cutout/s/r7/25/az8_bor.jpg

Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker! (http://www.flightradar24.com/reg/9mmrd)


These aren't "radar tracked paths" they're extrapolated from various data sources including "arrival and departure time"


http://flightaware.com/about/faq#howlive

[HOLLYWOOD]

I suppose that means this weekend we'll have to endure John McCain all over the tv foaming about how badly we need to invade Russia.

Edit - too late! Politico is already reporting that McCain has spouted that "there will be hell to pay" if the plane was shot down!FOX NEWS - Frigin political pawn Tim Pawlenty and Zionist John Bolton tag teaming... NATO alliance, Russia, Russia, Russia... FOX NEWS reporting that the BBC is reporting, Russia supplied SAMs to rebels.

Now ex USAF colonel Ralph Peters is on FOX...
"We have to wait for all the facts to come in, but the Russians shot down the aircraft... The Russian military shot down the plane... Since the HAMAS/Israeli crisis, the Russians have been shooting down Ukrainian aircraft, Ukrainian fighters, Ukrainian helicopters, this shows you how unreliability the Russian military can be. They could shoot down training planes over the Baltics. The Russians have some elite military, but most of their forces are sloppy and just shoot down anything in the sky. Obama doesn't have a military policy.... Obama's no military plan let's Putin act with impunity... :rolleyes: this is fuckin unbelievable.

Such a media disservice or is this to take the heat off of Israeli slaughter?

[Ronin Truth]

Malaysia Airlines seems rather careless and/or unlucky with it's planes and passengers. Time to sell and short the stock.

[Ronin Truth]

I suppose that means this weekend we'll have to endure John McCain all over the tv foaming about how badly we need to invade Russia.

Edit - too late! Politico is already reporting that McCain has spouted that "there will be hell to pay" if the plane was shot down!
Issue McCain a fighter and tell him to go to it. With his past flying record he'll probably just get shot down......again. :p :rolleyes:

[donnay]

Why are passenger jets flying over an active war zone where aircraft are being shot daily?

Was MH17 flying through warzone to save fuel? Planes in area of crash site pictured flying away from Ukraine as questions are raised as to why they were travelling over country

European Aviation and Safety Agency warned pilots to avoid Ukraine in April
British, European and US aircraft banned from overflying the warzone
Crash investigators will probe the aircraft's flight plan following the disaster
Aviation experts fear the jet entered the warzone to save burning fuel

By Darren Boyle

Air accident investigators are planning to inspect the proposed flight plan lodged by pilots on board Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 to see if they flew over a warzone to save fuel.

The 17-year-old jet was shot down over eastern Ukraine despite British, European and US commercial aircraft being warned against using the airspace since April.

One of the major questions is whether the Malaysian flight crew received the warning from flight safety officials about the risk to safety.

One aviation expert revealed: 'Malaysia Airlines, like a number of other carriers, have been continuing to use it because it is a shorter route, which means less fuel and therefore less money.'

The jet was travelling at 33,000 feet at 490 knots when it disappeared from radar screens while approaching the Russian border.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696321/Why-MH17-flying-warzone-European-safety-watchdogs-warned-against-flying-Ukraine-April.html#ixzz37kYgcpxm

[alucard13mm]

Malaysian airlines might as well file for bankruptcy... 2 loss planes in half a year.

both seems to be either incompetent or suicidal pilot related. Im guessing the planes gps or navigation might be messed with.

[wizardwatson]

I suppose that means this weekend we'll have to endure John McCain all over the tv foaming about how badly we need to invade Russia.

Edit - too late! Politico is already reporting that McCain has spouted that "there will be hell to pay" if the plane was shot down!

And now this article is saying 23 of passengers were American citizens.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/malaysian-passenger-plane-with-295-on-board-crashes-in-ukraine-near-russian-border/article1-1241551.aspx

They couldn't have planned this better.

I don't even see this as shocking because it all seems so scripted. As I said, just YESTERDAY Obama talked about these new sanctions. Now, according to an official inside our Ukraine puppet government the Ruskie rebels are to blame.

Why the hell the rebels would be so stupid as to fire at a jet 33000 feet is anyone's guess. My guess is intentional, I have no doubt that the pro-russian rebels are infiltrated with pro-US operatives.

"Hell to pay" indeed. And as usual the innocent will foot the bill.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Now on FOX NEWS, retired USAF Lt. General Thomas McInerney, "These aren't normal terrorists, these are Russian Spetsnatz Terrorists" :rolleyes:

Ukrainian Pro-Russian Militias "denied shooting down the aircraft and stated it was the Ukrainian government forces that shot it down"


http://kwout.com/cutout/8/ts/gv/7gy_bor.jpg

Malaysia Airlines MH17: Buk Missile May Have Been Cause Of Ukraine Crash (http://www.ibtimes.com/malaysia-airlines-mh17-buk-missile-may-have-been-cause-ukraine-crash-1631416)

[Zippyjuan]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crash-east-ukraine

They seem to have troubles with a lot of their planes lately. This one may have been shot down as it flew over the war torn eastern region of Ukraine. Ukraine officials say it wasn't them and the Russian backed rebels have shot down a few hellicoptors and planes ion the area with surface to air missiles.


A Malaysia Airlines passenger jet carrying 295 people from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur has crashed in an area of eastern Ukraine where separatist rebels have been engaging Ukrainian military forces in recent weeks.

Ukraine's president, Petro Poroshenko, said the jet may have been shot down.

"We do not exclude that the plane was shot down and confirm that the Ukraine armed forces did not fire at any targets in the sky," Poroshenko said in a statement.

Dozens of bodies were scattered around the smouldering wreckage of the plane, near the village of Grabovo, about 25 miles from the Russian border, according to reporters at the scene.

Emergency workers said at least 100 bodies had been found so far, and wreckage was scattered across an area 9 miles in diameter.

"I was working in the field on my tractor when I heard the sound of a plane and then a bang and shots. Then I saw the plane hit the ground and break in two. There was thick black smoke," a witness, who gave his name only as Vladimir, told Reuters.

In a statement, Malaysia Airlines said Ukraine's air traffic control lost contact with flight MH17 at 1415 (GMT) , approximately 50km from the Russia-Ukraine border.

"Flight MH17 operated on a Boeing 777 departed Amsterdam at 12.15pm (Amsterdam time) and was estimated to arrive at Kuala Lumpur International Airport at 6.10am (Malaysia time) the next day. The flight was carrying 280 passengers and 15 crew onboard." The flight also had a Dutch airline flight number from KLM, KL4103.

Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister, wrote on his Facebook page that the plane had crashed in Ukrainian territory after being hit by a missile fired from a Buk launcher. Associated Press said one of its journalists had seen a similar launcher near the town of Snizhne earlier on Thursday.

Leaders of the self-declared Donetsk people's republic denied any involvement, according to Interfax news agency. A member of the republic's security council said rebel weapons only had the capacity to shoot down a plane at 3,000 metres and blamed Ukrainian military forces for the attack.

Poroshenko called for a commission to be set up to investigate the crash. "This is the third tragic incident in recent days after Ukrainian military An-26 and Su-25 jets were shot down from Russian territory. We don't rule out that this plane was also shot down, and we stress that the Ukrainian military didn't take any actions to destroy targets in the air," he said.

In recent days the Ukrainian air force has lost planes in the area after they have been shot down by rebels. Earlier on Thursday, Ukraine accused Russia of downing one of its fighter jets inside Ukrainian territory. Russia's ambassador to the UN, Vitaly Churkin, rejected the allegation, telling reporters: "We didn't do it."

More at link.

[Brian4Liberty]

One thing's for sure... stay the hell off Malaysian Airline flights, esp their Boeing 777. Did the Malaysian government piss off TPTB or something?

There is always the possibility that this was another aircraft failure, with no missile involved at all. We may never know...

[ZENemy]

Im not religious but "Wars and rumors of wars" sounds good about now.

[HOLLYWOOD]

There is always the possibility that this was another aircraft failure, with no missile involved at all. We may never know...If this happen a year or more ago, it would plastered all over media as a Terrorists on the plane. Didn't TSA/DHS issue screening & flight warnings a couple of weeks ago about explosives devices in computers and smart phones?

I haven't heard one single media clown bring it up... only Russia and Ukrainian separatists/terrorists with SA11 and or SA17 SAMs.


BTW, I guarantee you, the US government(US military) know exactly if it was a SAM missile launched at MH17.

Hmm

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Torpedoed_Lusitania_diagram.jpg

[limequat]

Now people are saying that this plane was mistaken for Putin's plan that was supposed to be in the same area at the same time.

[Philhelm]

I suppose that means this weekend we'll have to endure John McCain all over the tv foaming about how badly we need to invade Russia.

Edit - too late! Politico is already reporting that McCain has spouted that "there will be hell to pay" if the plane was shot down!

McCain certainly has bad luck when it comes to planes being shot down...

[Philhelm]

Now people are saying that this plane was mistaken for Putin's plan that was supposed to be in the same area at the same time.

I hope they don't kill Putin. He's far too amusing to die.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Now people are saying that this plane was mistaken for Putin's plan that was supposed to be in the same area at the same time.

Here yah go... LIVE RT coverage feed: http://rt.com/on-air/

http://kwout.com/cutout/n/ts/gv/7gy_bor.jpg

President Putin's plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile - sources — RT News (http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/)

[limequat]

This article makes it sounds like Putin is taking credit:

http://www.businessinsider.com/mh-17-plane-crash-obama-putin-2014-7

[alucard13mm]

I dont think it is a false flag attack. I think it was an oppurtunistic event where the plane was allowed or manipulated into that area. Wouldnt the ukrainian military and air control warn the airliner as it approach eastern ukraine, hell when it first enters ukrainian air space?

I think it was shot down by rebels, but it was allowed to happen.

[limequat]

I dont think it is a false flag attack. I think it was an oppurtunistic event where the plane was allowed or manipulated into that area. Wouldnt the ukrainian military and air control warn the airliner as it approach eastern ukraine, hell when it first enters ukrainian air space?

I think it was shot down by rebels, but it was allowed to happen.

Malaysia Air decides to clip the corner of the Ukraine to save fuel.
Putin takes the opportunity to send a message (literally, he called Obama right after) about sanctions.
Maybe Putins jet was there not as a coincidence, but so that he could make sure it happened!

[ChristianAnarchist]

It appears the "rebels" were targeting what they thought was a military plane and got an airliner instead. The question is what was an airliner doing flying over a known war zone? All American airlines have been warned to avoid flying over this area. Why didn't Malaysian Airlines heed this warning??

[alucard13mm]

Malaysia Air decides to clip the corner of the Ukraine to save fuel.
Putin takes the opportunity to send a message (literally, he called Obama right after) about sanctions.
Maybe Putins jet was there not as a coincidence, but so that he could make sure it happened!

Seems much easier and untraceable to manipulate variables that would cause incidents like this.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Regardless what ANYONE tells you or says on the airwaves... know the truth. Stay informed on Military systems capabilities. Then you'll know who is withholding the truth/information on what has happen.

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB235/new54.pdf


Highly sophisticated infrared eyes to spot incoming enemy missiles against the United States and its allies will rocket into space Tuesday atop a United Launch Alliance Atlas 5 booster from Cape Canaveral.
Destined for a classified position somewhere in orbit 22,300 miles above the planet, the Air Force's second Space Based Infrared System Geosynchronous satellite, known as SBIRS GEO 2 for short, will further upgrade the nation's surveillance network (http://spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av037/preview.html#.UUc6zBezfLk) to detect and track missile launches around the globe.




http://kwout.com/cutout/9/dy/pz/8pm_bor.jpg

[tommyrp12]

Just heard Shepard Smith on fox say there were about 20 Americans on the passenger list. Sound's like a possible excuse to get more involved.

[Zippyjuan]

http://www.businessinsider.com/malaysian-plane-crash-russia-border-2014-7

Russian backed commander seems to admit to shooting it down.


"Locals say everything exploded in the air, fell in pieces, both bodies and plane itself," Journalist Noah Sneider tweeted from the area. "[People] thought they were being bombed."

An adviser to the Ukraine Interior Minister says pro-Russia separatists shot down the passenger plane with a Russian-made BUK ground-to-air missile system. The rebels have shot down multiple aircraft in the past month but deny involvement in the Malaysia Airlines incident.

Crucially, the separatists in the area reportedly commandeered a set of this system as of last month.

Local residents in Donetsk told Business Insider that they saw a Buk missile system in the area. And Radio 24 (Pадио 24), a Ukrainian radio station, posted this tweet which shows a Buk missile system in Snezhnoye, Ukraine:


The translation of the Ukrainian text reads: "Buk" terrorists were in Snezhnoye today.

Furthermore, The Interpreter reports the Ukrainian journalist Roman Bochkala and an AP journalist have seen separatists with the BUK system.

The region of Donetsk is a stronghold of pro-Russian rebels who are fighting the Ukrainian army. The separatists deny responsibility (via The Interpreter), but they did claim to shoot down a "Ukrainian transport plane" in the same area earlier today.

And Igor Strelkov, the Russian leader of the separatist "Lugansk People Republic" who is linked to Russian intelligence, claimed that rebels had shot down the "transport plane" in Torez — the same town that the Malaysia Airlines plane went down.

"In the region of Torez AN-26 plane has been shot," he wrote on Russia's version of Facebook. "We have warned them – not to fly 'in our sky.'"

[puppetmaster]

My favorite thing on this thread is the Google ads for Russian ladys......

[COpatriot]

Israeli ground invasion of Gaza underway with everyone watching this.

[wizardwatson]

Israeli ground invasion of Gaza underway with everyone watching this.

Yeah, twitter is all abuzz with ground invasion tweets. Not much on MSM yet. This plane story as you imply will likely be a boondoggle for those wanting eyes off gaza while the nazionists commence their slaughter mission.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Israeli ground invasion of Gaza underway with everyone watching this.Yep... like clockwork, eh? FOX has a LIVE feed of the; Israel launched, USA made HELLFIRE missiles from Apache helicopters, artillery explosions, fighter jets, drones... Man, it reads like a Department of Defense-Military Industrial Complex reality TV commercials.

http://kwout.com/cutout/m/cj/hc/36t_bor.jpg

[HOLLYWOOD]

LOL! others are getting the BS...

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9iom3zrCa1r66v2ro1_500.gif

[squarepusher]

Israeli ground invasion of Gaza underway with everyone watching this.

CLEAR EVIDENCE OF FALSE FLAG!!11 wake up SHEEPLE!!

[wizardwatson]

CLEAR EVIDENCE OF FALSE FLAG!!11 wake up SHEEPLE!!

Nothing will wake the people up. I think this is just the beginning of the final push to accomplish large chunks of their agenda. The sheople have been programmed to watch this stuff laughing and eating popcorn. Just look at the stories about those Israeli's camping on the hill watching Gaza get bombed.

Nothing will wake people up barring the apocalypse.

And if you read the bible, EVEN THAT doesn't wake everybody up.

[wizardwatson]

More expected propaganda:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-17/the-malaysia-airlines-shootdown-spells-disaster-for-putin


The Malaysia Airlines Shootdown Spells Disaster for Putin

The apparent downing of Malaysia Airlines MH 17, possibly by pro-Russia rebels in eastern Ukraine, is a horrifying tragedy for the families of the 295 passengers and crew members on board. It also represents a possible turning point in the confrontation between Russia and the West over Moscow’s ongoing campaign to destabilize Ukraine—which could spell serious trouble for Vladimir Putin.

The Malaysia Airlines crash came less than a day after the U.S. and Europe announced a new round of sanctions against Russia, targeting the country’s biggest banks and energy companies, all controlled by Putin’s cronies. Crucially, the sanctions would curtail the ability of Russian giants such as Rosneft, the state-owned oil company, to access U.S. equity and debt markets for financing. By raising the cost of borrowing, the sanctions have the potential to deal a punch in the gut to a Russian economy that’s already reeling, as my colleague Matt Philips noted on Wednesday.

Until now, the desire of some members of the Obama administration for more aggressive multilateral action against Putin has been stymied by the reluctance of European governments, particularly Germany, to antagonize Russia. Business interests in the U.S. have also claimed that American companies could be hurt if they lose access to the Russian market. In the aftermath of the Malaysia Airlines disaster, which almost certainly claimed dozens of American and European lives, such voices will be drowned out by demands from the public that Russia be punished for supplying the weapons that may have brought the airliner down.

To the vast majority of Americans, Russia’s meddling in Ukraine has largely seemed of peripheral importance to U.S. interests. That calculus has changed. As we have argued before, Putin has far more to lose from a prolonged confrontation than does the West. His finance ministry has already warned that additional sanctions would crush economic growth. And as more Russian businesses get squeezed and living standards deteriorate, Putin’s base of political support will crumble.

It may take months, even years, but Putin’s recklessness is bound to catch up to him. When it does, the downing of MH 17 may be seen as the beginning of his undoing.

Russia has denied all this so-called involvement in Ukraine. Granted they obviously are at some level but why does Putin get the label of scheming swindler and no one over here does?

I don't know how these blatant attacks against Putin and Russia counts as journalism. The propaganda isn't even thinly veiled anymore. Russia evil. USA good.

EDIT: This was the NUMBER ONE STORY on google news by the way. This is the kind of crap we get shoved down our throats first.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Just heard Shepard Smith on fox say there were about 20 Americans on the passenger list. Sound's like a possible excuse to get more involved. It's 17 American passengers... nah it's 23, but let's look at numbers game:

So lets sum it up:

Flight 17

A Boeing 777

in July (7)

on the 17th

crashed at 17:00 hours (Ukraine time)

Malaysian Airlines only has 17 Boeing 777's in its fleet

First Flight 17 July (7)

Last Flight: 17 July (7)

Age: 17 Years

DOW at 17,000

71 Dutch Passengers

Some reports saying 17 Americans aboard (and not 23)

The first video of the crash site was filmed 17 minutes later

They claim a BUK system shot it down NATO designator SA-17 Grizzly (which fires 9M317ME missiles)

Don't forget Christine Legarde's "7" Illuminati message :o

[LibertyEsq]

This is tragic and obviously whoever fired the rocket messed up big time, but the airline also deserves a ton of blame for this. Why the hell would you fly a commercial plane over an area which has very recently seen bombing campaigns, fighter planes shot down in the last few days, etc. They flew through a war zone.

[wizardwatson]

It's 17 American passengers... nah it's 23, but let's look at numbers game:
:o

My car odometer was at 111117 over lunch. Not kidding.

AND I STARTED THE THREAD!!!

Spooky!!!! :eek:

[wizardwatson]

Apparently the US is officially stating this plane was blowed up by a missile:


The official said U.S. intelligence and analysis of the situation determined that it was a single missile that struck the Boeing 777 aircraft while at cruising altitude. It is unclear whether the missile was fired from inside Ukrainian or Russian territory and who fired it.

full article: http://abcnews.go.com/International/malaysian-air-loses-contact-passenger-plane-ukraine/story?id=24599558

[Danke]

My favorite thing on this thread is the Google ads for Russian ladys......

Where? Link?

[idiom]

Well I guess we can stop looking for MH 370.

I guess all the people who were saying that it had been stolen for a future false flag were right.

Can't wait to see the serial numbers on the crashed aircraft...

[devil21]

I dont think it is a false flag attack. I think it was an oppurtunistic event where the plane was allowed or manipulated into that area. Wouldnt the ukrainian military and air control warn the airliner as it approach eastern ukraine, hell when it first enters ukrainian air space?

I think it was shot down by rebels, but it was allowed to happen.

The problem with the "shot down" theory is that the alleged video of the plane explosion being shown repeatedly on MSM shows precisely zero smoke trail. A plane shot out of midair by a missile will leave a debris and smoke trail, not just an explosion on the ground.

[thequietkid10]

For whatever it's worth, CNN is (wisely) playing conservatively on the "20 US citizens on the plane" part of the story. They've mentioned it once while I was watching and preferences it as "a rumor"

[Danke]

The problem with the "shot down" theory is that the alleged video of the plane explosion being shown repeatedly on MSM shows precisely zero smoke trail. A plane shot out of midair by a missile will leave a debris and smoke trail, not just an explosion on the ground.

:confused:

It has been reported that the debris covers at least 4 miles. Do you know the target of missiles against a large target?

[56ktarget]

According to paulites:

Sanctions- act of war
Shooting down a passenger airplane with 250+ innocent civilians- not an act of war

[devil21]

:confused:

It has been reported that the debris covers at least 4 miles. Do you know the target of missiles against a large target?

Look at the sky in the explosion video being replaying over and over on CNN. There's not a single sign of anything having happened in the air, especially not a missile hitting a passenger jet. I don't care what was "reported" (seeing how it's abundantly clear by now that the MSM is bought off top to bottom and can't be believed about anything). The video itself shows something exploding on the ground and that's it. No sign of a trail of a descending plane.


According to paulites:

Sanctions- act of war
Shooting down a passenger airplane with 250+ innocent civilians- not an act of war

I tend to not believe anything the CIA...errr MSM reports, sorry. Show me proof of a plane being shot down by anyone.

[FloralScent]

Shooting down a passenger airplane with 250+ innocent civilians- not an act of war

Were you there, or did the idiot box tell you what happened and what to think about it? I bet I know the answer.

[Danke]

Look at the sky in the explosion video being replaying over and over on CNN. There's not a single sign of anything having happened in the air, especially not a missile hitting a passenger jet. I don't care what was "reported" (seeing how it's abundantly clear by now that the MSM is bought off top to bottom and can't be believed about anything). The video itself shows something exploding on the ground and that's it. No sign of a trail of a descending plane.

That was the point of my question. Modern day missiles detonate at different times and points depending on their targeting.

If it is a large "transport type" target, it goes for the cockpit, as taking out an engine may not disable an aircraft.

Fighter pilots are trained to shoot at the cockpit for large aircraft.

In other words, there may not be any fire ball of an aircraft shot down.

[56ktarget]

Lol at the armchair analysis taking place.

[LibertyEsq]

According to paulites:

Sanctions- act of war
Shooting down a passenger airplane with 250+ innocent civilians- not an act of war

Of course it's an act of war...it was shot down over a war zone. Why in the hell would Malaysian Airlines fly a commercial plane over a warzone that had several fighter jets shot down the same week and a bombing campaign over the same area a week previous??

[Danke]

Lol at the armchair analysis taking place.

It is always that way dumbass. It is called analysis from the data received. However limited that may be.

[Danke]

Of course it's an act of war...it was shot down over a war zone. Why in the hell would Malaysian Airlines fly a commercial plane over a warzone that had several fighter jets shot down the same week and a bombing campaign over the same area a week previous??

Commercial airlines fly over hostile airspace all the time.

US carriers not so much because we would probably be targeted.

As an example, after 9/11, US carriers stopped flying over Iran and Pakistan. European carriers continued to fly there, to this day.

[56ktarget]

Plenty of airliners fly over that zone (not after this obviously). Nice try though.

[56ktarget]

It is always that way dumbass. It is called analysis from the data received. However limited that may be.

What are you an aviation expert or something?

[devil21]

In other words, there may not be any fire ball of an aircraft shot down.

Maybe but the narrative now is that the plane broke up in the air after being hit by a missile. There's no sign of anything having happened in the air and the video is obviously edited to not show anything BEFORE the explosion, like a plane heading into the ground. If anyone has a link to full video showing what happened before the explosion then I'd like to see. I suspect there is no such video though.

[TheCount]

Of course it's an act of war...it was shot down over a war zone. Why in the hell would Malaysian Airlines fly a commercial plane over a warzone that had several fighter jets shot down the same week and a bombing campaign over the same area a week previous??

America kills a single civilian in a warzone - Obama is a war criminal

Civilian aircraft shot down in a warzone - Oh hey, shit, it's a war zone, what are you going to do?



I won't even make the obvious Israel / Gaza comparisons.

[LibertyEsq]

Plenty of airliners fly over that zone (not after this obviously). Nice try though.

What do you mean nice try? What am i "trying" to do? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to decide to take a route that doesn't go through a zone where planes had been shot down that same week. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/07/17/captain-sullenberger-big-question-is-why-plane-was-flying-over-war-zone/#.U8g_qDB_79M.twitter

Malaysian Airlines apparently wanted to skimp on fuel.

[KingNothing]

This has false flag written all over it.

Didn't take long for a blithering idiot to pop up.

[Danke]

Maybe but the narrative now is that the plane broke up in the air after being hit by a missile. There's no sign of anything having happened in the air and the video is obviously edited to not show anything BEFORE the explosion, like a plane heading into the ground. If anyone has a link to full video showing what happened before the explosion then I'd like to see. I suspect there is no such video though.

An aircraft can break up and not make a fire ball.

[KingNothing]

So they cannot find the missing Malaysian plane that allegedly went down but they know for a fact that this Malaysian plane was shot down?

I really loathe MSM.


Holy christ on a cracker, you really can't comprehend the difference here?

[TheCount]

What do you mean nice try? What am i "trying" to do? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to decide to take a route that doesn't go through a zone where planes had been shot down that same week. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/07/17/captain-sullenberger-big-question-is-why-plane-was-flying-over-war-zone/#.U8g_qDB_79M.twitter

Malaysian Airlines apparently wanted to skimp on fuel.


It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a large aircraft at 35,000 feet on the eastern edge of Ukraine is clearly not a military target.

[mrsat_98]

This has false flag written all over it.


Didn't take long for a blithering idiot to pop up.

Blithering Idiot reporting for duty sir. Assassination Attempt on Putin

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/07/nwo-attempted-assassination-of-vladimir-putin-but-got-the-wrong-plane-it-looks-that-way-video-2994596.html?utm_content=awesm-publisher&utm_term=http%3A%2F%2Fb4in.info%2FtdHA&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=facebook-share&utm_source=direct-b4in.info

[KingNothing]

The problem with the "shot down" theory is that the alleged video of the plane explosion being shown repeatedly on MSM shows precisely zero smoke trail. A plane shot out of midair by a missile will leave a debris and smoke trail, not just an explosion on the ground.


Now that America's foremost expert in mid-air plane explosions caused by missiles has chimed in, I feel confident in saying this was a plot by the illuminati to exterminate the human population. And plus, the plane was carrying chemtrails.

[Danke]

It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a large aircraft at 35,000 feet on the eastern edge of Ukraine is clearly not a military target.

Why?

[KingNothing]

Blithering Idiot reporting for duty sir. Assassination Attempt on Putin

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/07/nwo-attempted-assassination-of-vladimir-putin-but-got-the-wrong-plane-it-looks-that-way-video-2994596.html?utm_content=awesm-publisher&utm_term=http%3A%2F%2Fb4in.info%2FtdHA&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=facebook-share&utm_source=direct-b4in.info

Hey, if it is on beforeitsnews, I'll believe it.

[Brian4Liberty]

The following video report is supposedly from the ground in the Ukraine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48YlDSVFVMI


We translated this video to the best our ability, though please note that due to sound quality, it may not be exact:

“What’s going on?"

"It’s a plane. Look!"

"It means the pilot died."

"Yes."

"The plane!"

Someone asks, “Why is everyone so excited?”

Another voice explains, "At first it was flying. It was coming from this side. It was flying, flying."

A third says, “It’s in a couple pieces. That’s what it seems like.”
...
More:
http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/07/malaysian-passenger-plane-crashes-in-ukraine-near-russian-border/374616/

[devil21]

An aircraft can break up and not make a fire ball.

Can it also not leave a single trace in the sky that a HUGE jetliner just broke up and crashed to earth? The sky is clear as a bell. No smoke, no debris trail, nothing. Why anyone still insists on believing anything the media and gov't claims is beyond me but believe what you wish.


Now that America's foremost expert in mid-air plane explosions caused by missiles has chimed in, I feel confident in saying this was a plot by the illuminati to exterminate the human population. And plus, the plane was carrying chemtrails.

I figured it was time for the shill and trolls to start showing up in force once the official narrative starts to be questioned. Like clockwork.

[TheCount]

Why?

What military mission is the Ukrainian air force executing against the rebels with an aircraft the size of a 777 flying at 35,000 feet, 50 miles away from the Russian border, and headed southeast?

[LibertyEsq]

What military mission is the Ukrainian air force executing against the rebels with an aircraft the size of a 777 flying at 35,000 feet, 50 miles away from the Russian border, and headed southeast?

This is unconfirmed but I read somewhere that a Russian rebel had posted on facebook that they had just shot down a "transport" right before the news broke. Maybe they thought it was that. I'm OF COURSE not trying to justify these actions, whoever did it, I'm just pointing out that Malaysian Airlines is run by some really fucking stupid people

[Danke]

What military mission is the Ukrainian air force executing against the rebels with an aircraft the size of a 777 flying at 35,000 feet, 50 miles away from the Russian border, and headed southeast?

Some reports have them thinking is was Putin's aircraft.

But bombers, reconnaissance and military refueling aircraft fly at that altitude and airspeed.

[Seraphim]

Lusitania 2.0

[TheCount]

But bombers, reconnaissance and military refueling aircraft fly at that altitude and airspeed.

Which airframe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Air_Force

[devil21]

Lusitania 2.0

Actually, if a plane really did get shot down (obviously I've seen no convincing evidence of that yet) then I was thinking a mix of Lusitania and Archduke Ferdinand with the Putin assassination angle.

[Danke]

Which airframe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Air_Force

Why the link?

They can't shout down an aircraft unless it is positively identified? That is naive.

[TheCount]

Why the link?

They can't shout down an aircraft unless it is positively identified? That is naive.

To show you that the Ukrainian air force has none of the things you listed.


Don't put words in my mouth; I said it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to determine that it wasn't an enemy aircraft given the fact that no possible enemy aircraft would match what the target was doing.

[vita3]

Israel invades Gaza.

[Brian4Liberty]

It appears the "rebels" were targeting what they thought was a military plane and got an airliner instead.

That sounds like the highest probably hypotheses at this point.

[Seraphim]

And have killed many children.

What a fucked up day.


Israel invades Gaza.

[LibertyEsq]

To show you that the Ukrainian air force has none of the things you listed.


Don't put words in my mouth; I said it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to determine that it wasn't an enemy aircraft given the fact that no possible enemy aircraft would match what the target was doing.

Uhm, I could see a Russian Rebel confusing an airliner with one of the first two airframes under "transport" in that link.

[TheCount]

Uhm, I could see a Russian Rebel confusing an airliner with one of the first two airframes under "transport" in that link.

The point that I was sure Danke would get is that at 35,000 feet, 18 miles from the border, and cruising at 550 miles per hour, that "transport" would reach the border with Russia in 2 minutes. There is no way that a "transport" could descend fast enough to land prior to crossing the border.

[Peace&Freedom]

That sounds like the highest probably hypotheses at this point.

I would tentatively concur, seeing no reason why the separatists, the Kiev government or Russia (each of whom are posing as the good guys) would willfully damage their legitimacy or standing by shooting down a civilian flight. Is this is a black op, is it all about taking the public's eye off the Israeli ransaking of Gaza, or tying down Russia with the Ukrainian mess so it can't respond to the Mideast situation escalating, for example via new Western incursions into Iraq, Iran and Syria?

[HOLLYWOOD]

Actually, if a plane really did get shot down (obviously I've seen no convincing evidence of that yet) then I was thinking a mix of Lusitania and Archduke Ferdinand with the Putin assassination angle.There's apparently eyewitnesses that stated they heard 3 large booms and watched the plane break apart.

If there are witnesses, and a video does show the final parts of the airliner falling out of the sky... if it were a missile launch, everyone within a 12 mile radii would have witnessed the contrail from the SA-11, SA-17, or SA-20,. Apparently this is being disseminated in media as the type of missile(s) used to hit the plane. Well the facts are; it was daytime, with a partly cloudy high ceiling sky, very good visibility, and a late video showing the final airliner pieces falling to the ground.... so, who's lying?

Now for the next lie, and I can confirm this by my infinite military knowledge.... ;)

The Pentagon had a press release(aired by US corp. media) stating it was a confirmed as a missile launch, missile hit, and took down Malaysian flight MH17. Then the Pentagon stated that MH17 was hit by either an SA-11 or SA-20 missile. Trust me if it's true, then the Pentagon knows exactly; what type of missile was launched, when it hit MH17, exact point of launch and strike coordinates and times. There is no way this slipped past the DOD. Government is being intentionally deceitful... again.

Hypothetical: may have been either a new stealth aircraft ops or an IR (non-visible) laser beam LaWS type of shoot down, like from a Black Sea positioned ship or airborne/space based... I'd like to know if the flight crew or passengers had been pre-warned and the only way, is to listen to the cockpit/cabin recorders and/or the cell/internet connection data connects/timelines forensics.

Finally, when the USUAL SUSPECTS (War advocates) open their mouths on blaming Russia, the game plan is in the works. John INSANE McCain is jawing it up, as well as another progressive War advocates like Congressman Eliot Engel and media mouthpiece Charles Krauthammer. Always pushing the war buttons, you know the trillion dollar violent jobs program and multi-trillion dollar banksters/MIC profit program. Everywhere McCain shows up or attacks becomes the next region of death and destruction. Rmeember, the government's PONZI/PYRAMID schemes are faltering and the economy is failing.

http://kwout.com/cutout/h/d5/77/gyj_bor.jpg (http://mashable.com/2014/02/18/u-s-navy-laser-weapon/)

U.S. Navy to Deploy Laser Weapon This Summer (http://mashable.com/2014/02/18/u-s-navy-laser-weapon/)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBuiPZm6hK4#t=47

[Anti Federalist]

Where? Link?

Welcome back Comrade

[pcosmar]

Maybe they are talking about the one Malaysia lost in the ocean months back?

Maybe it is the same plane?

I certainly can't tell from here.

And both sides are blaming both sides..

The anti-Russian Nazis have been keeping their promise to kill Russians though..
They have been bombing civilian populations for weeks..

Someone really wants a war with a Nuclear superpower. :(

[thequietkid10]

Al Jazeera America has highlighting the separatist facebook comments and suggesting the location and timing are similar to when the plane went down.

Now Stephen Cohen is suggesting that this is blowback from Ukrainian air strikes.

[pcosmar]

Al Jazeera America has highlighting the separatist facebook comments and suggesting the location and timing are similar to when the plane went down.

Now Stephen Cohen is suggesting that this is blowback from Ukrainian air strikes.

Yeah,, because FB accounts are fully verifiable as to origin. :rolleyes: ;)


I would like to see video footage surface.. to confirm or disprove a missile,, and what direction it may have come from.

The other rumor that it may simply have been the wrong plane is an interesting theory.. with just as much verifiable evidence.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Hint


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RRGvAB4HF8

[GunnyFreedom]

Yeah,, because FB accounts are fully verifiable as to origin. :rolleyes: ;)


I would like to see video footage surface.. to confirm or disprove a missile,, and what direction it may have come from.

The other rumor that it may simply have been the wrong plane is an interesting theory.. with just as much verifiable evidence.

I dunno, this sounds pretty legit to me. Maybe get HB34 to verify the translations?

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g

Seems they thought they were shooting down some kind of cargo plane with some kind of weapon in it.

[Cutlerzzz]

Clearly a false flag.

[pcosmar]

Seems they thought they were shooting down some kind of cargo plane with some kind of weapon in it.

And what verification is there of the identity and faction of those folks?

Maybe it was Ukrainian troops who though they were targeting a Russian flight.

I am not inclined to believe either propaganda spin.. or to entirely discount either.

But one thing is quite apparent.

Someone really wants a war with a Nuclear superpower.

[donnay]

Today is the anniversary of TWA Flight 800. (1996)

[TheCount]

Today is the anniversary of TWA Flight 800. (1996)

It's also the anniversary of Harvard Dental School.

[donnay]

Holy christ on a cracker, you really can't comprehend the difference here?

Oh I can comprehend just fine. Within minutes the western MSM was blaming Russia for shooting it down.

I guess you never read Operation Northwoods, eh?

[donnay]

It's also the anniversary of Harvard Dental School.

That's good, I hope your dentures are aligned just right for you.

[TheCount]

That's good, I hope you dentures are aligned just right for you.

Yes, and the pilot's amalgam fillings were also aligned just right.

http://i.imgur.com/d1ZxGuJ.gif

[DFF]

Shooting down a plane full of innocent people is about as low and as criminal as you can get.

As far as who did it, probably the same assholes who ordered snipers to shoot at civilians in Maiden Square.

[KingNothing]

Can it also not leave a single trace in the sky that a HUGE jetliner just broke up and crashed to earth? The sky is clear as a bell. No smoke, no debris trail, nothing. Why anyone still insists on believing anything the media and gov't claims is beyond me but believe what you wish.



I figured it was time for the shill and trolls to start showing up in force once the official narrative starts to be questioned. Like clockwork.


Yeah, I'm a shill. GFY, dude. I've dedicated more money, energy, and time into this movement than you -I'm certain of that- and it is freaking ridiculous that you'd throw eggs at me for saying the leap to "OMG INSIDE JOB" is psychotic behavior.

[KingNothing]

Oh I can comprehend just fine. Within minutes the western MSM was blaming Russia for shooting it down.

I guess you never read Operation Northwoods, eh?


Of course. You know more than me. I'm just an ignorant ass who isn't familiar with Northwoods.

....please. You understand that just because those proposals, along with MK Ultra and war games with every nation on earth exist, doesn't mean that literally every bad thing that happens on Earth happens because our government arranged it, right?

[KingNothing]

Today is the anniversary of TWA Flight 800. (1996)

THAT is an example of the official narrative making very little sense. This event is not.

[HOLLYWOOD]

I dunno, this sounds pretty legit to me. Maybe get HB34 to verify the translations?

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html

Seems they thought they were shooting down some kind of cargo plane with some kind of weapon in it.Kiev Post is just as much a government propaganda rag reporting as the New York Times, WSJ, WaPO, HuffPo, The Atlantic. etc.

I find it difficult to believe this was a Russia Black Ops because of the location of incidents, Russia weaponry so-called used, lack of evidence of a launch, and a bunch of co-called Russian clowns spilling their beans over the airwaves for intel to grab? ...especially after it was the Russians that hacked/spied upon the US State Department official conversations. An operation this horrific plan would call for complete silence and secrecy. I do find it believable, due to a plethora of US indicators and pass coup history, especially with the bufoonery currently running covert ops, this was of western origin.

Not to take the situation lightly, but to lighten the toll... watch this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkW2smqwPpQ

[donnay]

Of course. You know more than me. I'm just an ignorant ass who isn't familiar with Northwoods.

....please. You understand that just because those proposals, along with MK Ultra and war games with every nation on earth exist, doesn't mean that literally every bad thing that happens on Earth happens because our government arranged it, right?

Obviously you are not familiar how the CIA, MI6, Mossad and the MIC works. Go back and read Operation Northwoods again. In 1963 a military coup d'éta (http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/08/lars-schall/jfk-coup-detat-in-america/) hijacked the U.S. government you so defend.

[Dianne]

I'm not even reading comments, before I type my thoughts ... This story is so laughable, it's unbelievable .. So, conveniently this story (while Obama fundraising in New York), removes all the headlines of the IRS, VA, Terrorists and Drug Cartels raping our borders, while he wants to pay 83,300. per year for each of the children ...

Can you guys even bring yourself to believe, that this Passenger Jet flew over a WAR ZONE? If I give our military un-intelligence credit for anything ... this may have been photo's of the missing Malysian (spell check on that) from months ago, that was shot down by U.S. funded insurgents in the Ukraine ..

This False Flag is so humorous that Putin had to call Obama about it ... Obama had no clue.. But Fox News beating the war drumbs, ready to take Putin out.

Again, Obama has one skill he uses well ... He is a Magician ... He can make things appear and disappear.

[KingNothing]

Obviously you are not familiar how the CIA, MI6, Mossad and the MIC works. Go back and read Operation Northwoods again. In 1963 a military coup d'éta (http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/08/lars-schall/jfk-coup-detat-in-america/) hijacked the U.S. government you so defend.


I know as much about it as you do, you (mod edit)

[KingNothing]

Stupid people think stupid things then make stupid posts.

You'd think I'd be used to this by now, but it continues to shock me.

[COpatriot]

John McCain on the hannity show right now. Cue foaming at the mouth for a new war in 3...2...1...

[HOLLYWOOD]

Can you guys even bring yourself to believe, that this Passenger Jet flew over a WAR ZONE? If I give our military un-intelligence credit for anything ... this may have been photo's of the missing Malysian (spell check on that) from months ago, that was shot down by U.S. funded insurgents in the Ukraine ..
Glorious Congressman Peter King was on FOX NEWS (like clockwork)... King says, Even if the Russians didn't do it, they need to take full responsiblity for their weapons committing crimes. POT-KETTLE-BLACK... oh these fucking hypocrites and liars... look what the US has been doing in Syria for years.

Peter King on The Kelly Files: Need to give Ukraine Weapons, not MREs (Meals Ready to Eat)
John McCain on Sean Hannity: Ukraine begged us to send them arms to defend themselves, you know what was sent, we sent them MREs.


LOL ===> BusinessInsider REPORT: The US Is Openly Sending Heavy Weapons From Libya To Syrian Rebels

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNTmm7yTnGw4_wyyGSGUi5Y692U0PZH GvdNfwnG6U_MCqL991-jA
(http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-admin-admits-to-covertly-sending-heavy-weapons-to-syrian-rebels-2012-12)

[AngryCanadian]

why would they fly over a warzone in the first place

Good question. Seems that NATO was desperate starting the war agaisnt Russia.

[Henry Rogue]

What are you an aviation expert or something?
Yes he is, from both the military and commercial side of it.

[Natural Citizen]

Kiev deployed powerful anti-air systems to E. Ukraine ahead of the Malaysian plane crash...




Chances are high that the Malaysian plane was really downed by the Ukrainian anti-aircraft defense, Yury Karash, pilot and aviation expert, told RT.

“A Boeing-777 is an extremely reliable piece of machinery. Modern planes don’t just crash with no reason,” he said. “Let us recall how a Ukrainian missile downed Russian TU-154 aircraft ten years ago. I can’t completely exclude the possibility the Boeing-777 was also hit by a missile.”

“I don’t know who could’ve shot it down. But I can allege that it was most likely the Ukrainian armed forces: simply because its military – anti-aircraft defense, in particular – are, unfortunately, unqualified. As judging by the overall state of the Ukrainian armed forces, insufficient attention has been paid to their training,” Karash added.

Reports in the Western media hurried to blame the self-defense forces of the People’s Republic of Donetsk for bringing the plane down.

The claims were denied by the representatives of the Donetsk People’s Republic, saying that it’s the Ukrainian military, which destroyed the aircraft.

“We simply don’t have such air defense systems. Our man-portable air defense systems have a firing range 3,000 - 4,000 meters. The Boeing was flying at a much higher altitude,” Sergey Kavtaradze, special representative for the prime minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic, explained.



Continued - Kiev deployed powerful anti-air systems to E. Ukraine ahead of the Malaysian plane crash
(http://rt.com/news/173636-buk-malaysian-plane-crash/)
Aside - Kiev's bloody eastern Ukraine campaign LIVE UPDATES (http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-army-operation-680/)

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

Kiev deployed powerful anti-air systems to E. Ukraine ahead of the Malaysian plane crash...



Continued - Kiev deployed powerful anti-air systems to E. Ukraine ahead of the Malaysian plane crash
(http://rt.com/news/173636-buk-malaysian-plane-crash/)
Aside - Kiev's bloody eastern Ukraine campaign LIVE UPDATES (http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-army-operation-680/)

what was the time difference on Putins flight ?

[presence]

bombers, reconnaissance and military refueling aircraft fly at that altitude and airspeed.




the Ukrainian air force has none of the things you listed.


Don't put words in my mouth; I said it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to determine that it wasn't an enemy aircraft given the fact that no possible enemy aircraft would match what the target was doing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Air_Force

Ilyushin Il-76 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-76)


including use as an airborne refueling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_refueling) tanker or as a command center.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-76

[TheCount]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Air_Force

Ilyushin Il-76 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-76)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-76


A refueling mission 18 miles from the border while flying towards the border at speed?

[donnay]

I know as much about it as you do, you arrogant twat.

Time to take off your rose colored glasses and put your big boy pants on and enter the REAL world of false flag operations.

[Danke]

The point that I was sure Danke would get is that at 35,000 feet, 18 miles from the border, and cruising at 550 miles per hour, that "transport" would reach the border with Russia in 2 minutes. There is no way that a "transport" could descend fast enough to land prior to crossing the border.


you are mixing up facts and what I posted.

[pcosmar]

It's also the anniversary of Harvard Dental School.

Odd that you would mention a group of elitists. While also obfuscating the issues.

And it also coincides with the Ground troops going into Gaza. Which has become a byline.

[HOLLYWOOD]

I still haven't seen the contrail(s) from the SAM missile(s) fired... zero verification from either side, no pics, and like D21 said, the video media is showing of the crash, appears to be clearly edited.

Here's the video which all of US Media is using portions as the type of missile fired they accuse of downing Malaysian Air MH17.'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDXScnEKaP0

http://vortex.accuweather.com/adc2004/pub/includes/columns/newsstory/2010/300x399_11101851_contrail.jpg

[Natural Citizen]

Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane crash in Ukraine LIVE UPDATES (http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/)

[pcosmar]

Glorious Congressman Peter King was on FOX NEWS (like clockwork)... King says, Even if the Russians didn't do it, they need to take full responsiblity for their weapons committing crimes. POT-KETTLE-BLACK... oh these fucking hypocrites and liars... look what the US has been doing in Syria for years.

Peter King on The Kelly Files: Need to give Ukraine Weapons, not MREs (Meals Ready to Eat)
John McCain on Sean Hannity: Ukraine begged us to send them arms to defend themselves, you know what was sent, we sent them MREs.


LOL ===> BusinessInsider REPORT: The US Is Openly Sending Heavy Weapons From Libya To Syrian Rebels

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNTmm7yTnGw4_wyyGSGUi5Y692U0PZH GvdNfwnG6U_MCqL991-jA
(http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-admin-admits-to-covertly-sending-heavy-weapons-to-syrian-rebels-2012-12)

That is the TOW missile.
And people wonder how they have been capturing armor units is Iraq.
:rolleyes:

And yes,, I am a qualified TOW expert.

[dillo]

Is the only video the one that just shows the very end of the plane crash, in this day and age with iphones how is that possible.

[pcosmar]

I still haven't seen the contrail(s) from the SAM missile(s) fired... zero verification from either side, no pics, and like D21 said, the video media is showing of the crash, appears to be clearly edited.


The few videos I saw were the smoke rising shortly after impact. And there are no contrails in the visible field of view.

I was hoping to see some footage of the plane coming down.

Seems if it was hit at that altitude it would have been visible to a large area. There may me more video of what happened.

It would take it time to crash or it would have been scattered over a much larger area. Folks saw that happen.

[dillo]

Peter King on Faux, he is so stupid.

[devil21]

I dunno, this sounds pretty legit to me. Maybe get HB34 to verify the translations?

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g

Seems they thought they were shooting down some kind of cargo plane with some kind of weapon in it.

Zerohedge is calling bs on the video. Interesting read.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/ukraine-releases-youtube-clip-proving-rebels-shot-down-malaysian-flight-mh-17

[squarepusher]

Zerohedge is calling bs on the video. Interesting read.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/ukraine-releases-youtube-clip-proving-rebels-shot-down-malaysian-flight-mh-17
either the video is real, and the Russian rebels/Putin are in some deep shit ... or the video is a planned fake/forgery used to incriminate them. We will need some analysis on this to determine which is the case.

[Weston White]

Hang on, hold up, wait a minute. One of these things is not like the other; one of these things just doesn’t belong...

Boeing 757, Flight-93, crashes (or is shot down, depending on who you ask) into swampland in Shanksville, PA and absorbed into the depths of earth:


http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/911/images/00037r.jpg

Boeing 757, Flight-77 strikes the Pentagon, VA and it morphs into all of about three pieces:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Aerial_view_of_the_Pentagon_during_rescue_operatio ns_post-September_11_attack.JPEG

Boeing 777, Flight-MH17 is shot down over a foreign nation and it leaves behind a vast field of wreckage, including numerous details of deceased passengers--a detail consistently overlooked throughout the wreckages of 9/11:


http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/rt_malaysia_plane_3_kb_140717_4x3_992.jpg


(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10975257/Corpses-and-body-parts-strewn-amid-MH17-wreckage-greet-first-arrivals-at-Ukraine-crash-scene.html)


Flashback (2006): Russian Jet Crash in Ukraine Kills 169; Many Are Young (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/23/world/europe/23plane.html?_r=0)


http://www.1001crash.com/latest/2006/polk_TU154_im5.jpg

[PRB]

let's see how long people will deny the obvious!

CLEARLY IT WAS ISRAEL who shot down the plane to distract international attention away from Gaza ground invasion.

HOW BLIND DO YOU HAVE TO BE TO NOT SEE THIS?

[devil21]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata&v=2KwSPYTz9R8&app=desktop

Media robots.

[PRB]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata&v=2KwSPYTz9R8&app=desktop

Media robots.

he blew the opportunity to say it again!

[KingNothing]

Time to take off your rose colored glasses and put your big boy pants on and enter the REAL world of false flag operations.

You say this without a hint of irony, which just makes it hilarious.

[pcosmar]

You say this without a hint of irony, which just makes it hilarious.
you are likely too ignorant to be educated,, but I will attempt one more time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f8fyXkKJYk

Wiki for quick reference only..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Himmler

[wizardwatson]

Didn't take long for a blithering idiot to pop up.

So I jump to the conclusion that this is a false flag (and I'd say the evidence is going more and more in that direction as time goes on) and I'm a blithering idiot.

You jump to the conclusion that I'm a blithering idiot and you are a pragmatic do-good liberty movement supporter trying to remove the conspiracy theorists from the productive dialog.

How is the view up there on your high horse?

[nobody's_hero]

why would they fly over a warzone in the first place

Kind of like Americans who go to places like Iran and then it's 'derpy derp Iran why u arrested us? derp'

It's not like it was kept a secret that there's a war going on down below.

[thoughtomator]

The instant, before-facts-can-be-well-known, full-court press by neocons of both parties is your screaming red alert that this is a fabricated incident.

[Peace&Freedom]

The instant, before-facts-can-be-well-known, full-court press by neocons of both parties is your screaming red alert that this is a fabricated incident.

It's a very good sign, yes. Amazing how THEY are allowed to jump the gun and wax very dogmatically about their conclusions based on incomplete initial data, but none of US can suggest false flags or black ops may be be involved in this case, without the King Nothings screaming derision at us for raising the possibility. If it's premature for either side to wax conclusively at this point, you'd think the debunk heads would be deriding both sides for doing so.

[wizardwatson]

It's official!!! US blames rebels and by implication Russia who OBVIOUSLY gave them the missiles that shot down the plane.

And as I predicted when starting this thread it took less than 24 hours.

I mean who needs a thorough investigation? Honestly.

U.S. intelligence confirms pro-Russian rebels shot down Malaysian plane

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/missile-downs-malaysia-airlines-plane-over-ukraine-killing-298-kiev-blames-rebels/2014/07/18/d30205c8-0e4a-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

[wizardwatson]

It's official!!! US blames rebels and by implication Russia who OBVIOUSLY gave them the missiles that shot down the plane.

And as I predicted when starting this thread it took less than 24 hours.

I mean who needs a thorough investigation? Honestly.

U.S. intelligence confirms pro-Russian rebels shot down Malaysian plane

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/missile-downs-malaysia-airlines-plane-over-ukraine-killing-298-kiev-blames-rebels/2014/07/18/d30205c8-0e4a-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

You know, I was going to quote some of the propaganda from this article but it's so full of it it really deserves its own thread.

I'm so sick of all this.

I really worry about all of us. These people will not stop until war is everywhere.

EDIT: And again, this was number one top story on google news when I read it.

[thoughtomator]

U.S. intelligence confirms pro-Russian rebels shot down Malaysian plane


Point of inquiry: Is this the same "U.S. intelligence" that confirmed the Jew Registration Hoax, also in under 24 hours?

[Brian4Liberty]

Well, it's nothing but wall to wall war propaganda today. We must make Putin pay!

On CNBC this morning, one woman was talking about both Gaza and Ukraine, and at one point made a Freudian slip and said something about Moscow celebrating a situation in Gaza. She meant to say Hamas.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Ron calls it, as we already know whats going on with the wacko foreign policy dictators and their false flag BS... :D

MH17: ‘Who Would Benefit The Most?’ – Ron Paul


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1X2oAmJ_Lo&feature=player_embedded

http://youtu.be/P1X2oAmJ_Lo

[donnay]

you are likely too ignorant to be educated,, but I will attempt one more time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f8fyXkKJYk

Wiki for quick reference only..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Himmler


Pete you're casting pearls before swine. :rolleyes:

[wizardwatson]

I'm so confused.

How come the MH17 plane left wreckage? How come there are dead bodies?

I could have swore someone on the boob tube told me it was common for all aircraft components and bodies to vaporize on impact as per United flight 93, one of the four hijacked planes on 9/11.

I think I need to go to a re-education camp. My fluoride levels must be low. I don't normally notice contradictory things. This can't be healthy.

[PRB]

It's official!!! US blames rebels and by implication Russia who OBVIOUSLY gave them the missiles that shot down the plane.

And as I predicted when starting this thread it took less than 24 hours.

I mean who needs a thorough investigation? Honestly.

U.S. intelligence confirms pro-Russian rebels shot down Malaysian plane

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/missile-downs-malaysia-airlines-plane-over-ukraine-killing-298-kiev-blames-rebels/2014/07/18/d30205c8-0e4a-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

BACKED BY ISRAEL.

[PRB]

either the video is real, and the Russian rebels/Putin are in some deep shit ... or the video is a planned fake/forgery used to incriminate them. We will need some analysis on this to determine which is the case.

Israel is behind it all. Stop wasting your time pointing fingers at anybody else.

[PRB]

Point of inquiry: Is this the same "U.S. intelligence" that confirmed the Jew Registration Hoax, also in under 24 hours?

No, but it's the same Zionist media telling us about it.

[Peace&Freedom]

Why did Ukrainian air traffic control order MH17 travel through the war zone area, when it told all other flights to take a different route?

Meanwhile, the video the Kiev government is touting as implicating Russia is reported to be time stamped at 7/16, a day before the shoot down. Did somebody set the plane to get shot down by somebody in the war zone, knowing they had falsified data at the ready to incriminate Russia?

[pcosmar]

Israel is behind it all.
Actually,, the people that are behind Israel are behind this. Just different moves by pieces on the same chessboard.

[PRB]

Actually,, the people that are behind Israel are behind this. Just different moves by pieces on the same chessboard.

who would they be?

[pcosmar]

who would they be?

an often asked question..What powerful Banking interests and Royal Families were involved in the promotion and creation of the State of Israel?
(and instigation of the First and Second World Wars)


Follow the Money

[squarepusher]

most of the evidence points to Russian separatists shooting down the MH17 on accident, they even took credit for it on twitter/social media until they discovered it was civilian, then they deleted everything ... unless this information is forged or an elaborate conspiracy, Putin has blood on his hands.

[pcosmar]

they even took credit for it on twitter/social media

well an American (boots on the ground) soldier was an eye witness to a blast from Howard Sterns Ass taking out the plane.
As reported on a Serious Credible News source.

Are you saying Our military troops are liars?
Don't you support our troops? :rolleyes:

[wizardwatson]

most of the evidence points to Russian separatists shooting down the MH17 on accident, they even took credit for it on twitter/social media until they discovered it was civilian, then they deleted everything ... unless this information is forged or an elaborate conspiracy, Putin has blood on his hands.

I don't even know why I follow this crap anymore. I was one of the proponents all during this movement that regardless of your beliefs about 9/11 and false flags it doesn't change our strategy. Of course we have no strategy but that's beside the point.

The official story is what will fly and it will likely be just as you apparently already believe. With the caveat that it will be Russia's fault no matter what.

It always happens that more and more evidence surfaces that questions the official story. And it converts maybe a few people but all it really does is get more people labeled as conspiracy theorists. There is never and will never be an "independent thorough investigation" OF ANYTHING where potential political game changing events are taking place.

Jaded and cynical doesn't come close to where I am after all these years. Only God will reverse this trend. I firmly believe that now.

[Brian4Liberty]

most of the evidence points to Russian separatists shooting down the MH17 on accident, they even took credit for it on twitter/social media until they discovered it was civilian, then they deleted everything ... unless this information is forged or an elaborate conspiracy, Putin has blood on his hands.

Putin has blood on his hands because some separatist in another country accidentally killed a bunch of people with a weapon manufactured in Russia? Hmmm. That could have a lot of ramifications.

[Zippyjuan]

Putin has blood on his hands because some separatist in another country accidentally killed a bunch of people with a weapon manufactured in Russia? Hmmm. That could have a lot of ramifications.

The rebels did not have access to such equipment or training on how to use it without help from the Russians.

[Pericles]

The rebels did not have access to such equipment or training on how to use it.

To find a US equivalent to the SA-17 you'd have to go to the patriot system, and you can't figure out how to operate those well by reading about them on the Internet.

[dannno]

The rebels did not have access to such equipment or training on how to use it without help from the Russians.

Well it's a good thing we don't give other countries access to any weapons we manufacture...

[pcosmar]

The rebels did not have access to such equipment or training on how to use it without help from the Russians.

-rep just from the utter stupidity of that statement.

Troll better... or don't bother at all.

[PRB]

most of the evidence points to Russian separatists shooting down the MH17 on accident, they even took credit for it on twitter/social media until they discovered it was civilian, then they deleted everything ... unless this information is forged or an elaborate conspiracy, Putin has blood on his hands.

that doesn't mean they were not backed by Israel

[Zippyjuan]

-rep just from the utter stupidity of that statement.

Troll better... or don't bother at all.

What is incorrect? Source?

http://mashable.com/2014/07/17/malaysia-mh17-ukraine-what-shot-down/


“Russia and Ukraine have such SAM systems in their inventories,” de Larrinaga said.

A launcher that looked like a Buk missile system was spotted by Associated Press reporters on Thursday near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne, according to an AP report.

Given that these systems could conceivably hit a plane at that altitude, the bigger question remains: who fired the missile?

Both the Ukrainian government and the pro-Russia separatist rebels denied shooting down the commercial plane. And it remains unclear whether the rebels had access to one of these complex system. Moreover, the system entails significant training, Tack said.

In the past few weeks, there have been numerous reports of rebels shooting airplanes down in Ukraine using so-called manpads or portable surface-to-air missile systems. These, however, don't have the capability of reaching a plane flying at 10 kilometer, Tack said.

A Twitter account associated with pro-Russian rebels apparently posted a picture of a Buk system before the tweet was deleted — leading some to suspect the rebels might have gotten their hands on one of these systems.

[Peace&Freedom]

The rebels did not have access to such equipment or training on how to use it without help from the Russians.

The Ukrainian government has access to such equipment, by way of the Russians. Ukraine's Prosecutor General says the rebels DO NOT have access to these weapons at all, from Ukraine or from Russia. The Ukrainians have a strong motive for framing the Russians and/or the rebels, even if it makes them look bad if discovered. The Russians and rebels do not have a motive for downing a civilian plane, as it damages their legitimacy.

The land based radar and air traffic control data, which might help clarify the trajectory of the missile (i.e., whether it came from a government or separatist direction), and reveal the conversations explaining why Ukrainian ATC told the plane to fly 200 out of its normal path and over the war zone) has been confiscated by Ukrainian police. How convenient. Was it done to protect the chain of evidence, or to massage it in the editing room?

[Brian4Liberty]

The rebels did not have access to such equipment or training on how to use it without help from the Russians.

LOL. No links? Now where did you pull that factoid from? That's like saying that "the Israeli's can't fly American jets without help from the Americans". It's just as likely that at some point that a Ukrainian trained junior Russians on how to use those weapons.

[Brian4Liberty]

What is incorrect?

It is beyond ignorant at face value.

[Zippyjuan]

The Ukrainian government has access to such equipment, by way of the Russians. Ukraine's Prosecutor General says the rebels DO NOT have access to these weapons at all, from Ukraine or from Russia. The Ukrainians have a strong motive for framing the Russians and/or the rebels, even if it makes them look bad if discovered. The Russians and rebels do not have a motive for downing a civilian plane, as it damages their legitimacy.

The land based radar and air traffic control data, which might help clarify the trajectory of the missile (i.e., whether it came from a government or separatist direction), and reveal the conversations explaining why Ukrainian ATC told the plane to fly 200 out of its normal path and over the war zone) has been confiscated by Ukrainian police. How convenient.

I don't think a commercial plane was downed deliberately. I think they thought they were shooting at a Ukranian plane. They had already shot down a few of them in the area.

[pcosmar]

What is incorrect? Source?

What is correct with that made up bullshit you posted?

Those weapon systems have been there the whole time.. The "rebels" are Ukrainians,, who were quite familiar with that equipment,,and many have had Military training,, or were current Military when the Nazi Coup took place.

They have no need of Russian training or advisers. And the equipment has been there for years.

It is just as likely that some newly trained recruit to the Ukraine Military followed some nazi idiots order to fire on Putin's (suspected) aircraft.

And as yet,, there is not a shred of evidence that it was even a missile that brought the plane down.
Likely,, but no evidence..
And no proof whatsoever which side may have done so.. but both are equally capable.

[GunnyFreedom]

I don't think a commercial plane was downed deliberately. I think they thought they were shooting at a Ukranian plane. They had already shot down a few of them in the area.

I don't think anybody but half the folks on this board think a passenger jet was downed deliberately. Sometimes a mistake is just a mistake. :(

[Constitutional Paulicy]

LOL. No links? Now where did you pull that factoid from? That's like saying that "the Israeli's can't fly American jets without help from the Americans". It's just as likely that at some point that a Ukrainian trained junior Russians on how to use those weapons.

I also heard this very statement from a source today. However, it was a mainstream media outlet and it was a quote from a rebel. I looked for the article, but I've read so many I cant find it now. I really cant see how we could trust the words of a rebel or the MSM.

[PRB]

It is beyond ignorant at face value.

I'm not going to tell you where you're wrong, I'm just going to tell you you're wrong and call you ignorant if you ask.

[Zippyjuan]

I don't think anybody but half the folks on this board think a passenger jet was downed deliberately. Sometimes a mistake is just a mistake. :(

Thanks Gunny!

[HOLLYWOOD]

Ukraine's Security Service Has Confiscated Air Traffic Control Recordings With Malaysian Jet (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/ukraines-security-service-has-confiscated-air-traffic-control-recordings-malaysian-j)

BBC reports (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784)"Ukraine's SBU security service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_Service_of_Ukraine)has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."

http://kwout.com/cutout/a/tn/tj/bqs_bor.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20flight%20paths.png)

MH 17 flight paths (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20flight%20paths.png)

[dannno]

I don't think anybody but half the folks on this board think a passenger jet was downed deliberately. Sometimes a mistake is just a mistake. :(

What was Ron Paul's motivation for talking about how Ukraine would benefit most from Russia shooting down a passenger plane?

[Zippyjuan]

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-malaysia-defends-flight-path-20140718-story.html


A day after a Malaysia Airlines plane traveling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur crashed near the Russian border in eastern Ukraine, the Malaysian transportation minister said he believed the crew bore no responsibility for the deadly flight plan.

"The flight path taken by MH17 was approved by the International Civil Aviation Organization and by the countries whose airspace the route passed through,” said Liow Tiong Lai at a news conference in Kuala Lumpur on Friday. “Fifteen out of 16 airlines in the Assn. of Asia Pacific Airlines fly this route over Ukraine.”




Malaysia Airlines joined Liow in defending its use of the route over Ukraine, saying in a statement Friday that the flight plan had been approved by Eurocontrol, the air navigation service provider responsible for determining flight paths over Europe.

The airlines said that the course taken by the plane was a common one and that another flight from a different airliner was on the same route at the time of the MH17 crash in the region of Donetsk near the Russian border.

In April, the International Civil Aviation Organization identified an area over the Crimean peninsula as risky, Malaysia Airlines noted in its statement.

"At no point did MH17 fly into, or request to fly into, this area," the statement said. "At all times, MH17 was in airspace approved by the ICAO."

[HOLLYWOOD]

LOL! Go find some more BS...


http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-malaysia-defends-flight-path-20140718-story.html

[Zippyjuan]

Which part- the one about different flights also using the same route- or the part about the plane not flying over the Crimean Peninsula? Or both? (your map does not show it going over the Crimean Peninsula).

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/malaysian-airlines-changes-route-over-eastern-ukraine-after-mh17-shot-down


Malaysia Airlines has confirmed it will be avoiding its usual route over eastern Ukraine after one of its aircraft was shot down over the region, with a host of other commercial airlines also altering their flight paths.

In a statement, Malaysia Airlines said it had believed the flight path over the increasingly volatile region was safe.

“With immediate effect, all European flights operated by Malaysia Airlines will be taking alternative routes avoiding the usual route,” a statement from the airline read.

“The usual flight route was earlier declared safe by the International Civil Aviation Organisation. International Air Transport Association has stated that the airspace the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions.

“Our focus now is to work with the emergency responders and authorities and mobilise its full support to provide all possible care to the next of kin. Malaysia Airlines is deploying its ‘Go Team’ to Amsterdam with a group of care givers and volunteers to assist the family members of the passengers.”

Eurocontrol, which coordinates air traffic agencies across Europe, said the aircraft was flying at a height of 10,000 metres when it disappeared from the radar.

“This route had been closed by the Ukrainian authorities from ground to flight level 320 but was open at the level at which the aircraft was flying,” it said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/07/17/the-malaysian-flight-that-crashed-in-ukraine-was-on-the-same-route-it-flew-every-day/


A Malaysian airlines plane was reportedly shot down over Ukranian airspace today. The story is developing and moving fast, but data from airline data firm FlightAware shows that particular flight - Malaysian Flight 17 - runs daily and always goes through Ukranian airspace. In other words, today's flight does not appear to have deviated from the paths of previous flights in any significant way.


Here's the path of yesterday's flight:
http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/07/Screen-Shot-2014-07-17-at-12.11.54-PM.png


Here's the path taken one week ago:

http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/07/Screen-Shot-2014-07-17-at-12.13.03-PM.png

[HOLLYWOOD]

FGind some more horseshit... from sources other than media... go ahead, you can find some facts if you look hard enough... keep searching.
Which part- the one about different flights also using the same route- or the part about the plane not flying over the Crimean Peninsula? Or both? (your map does not show it going over the Crimean Peninsula).

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/malaysian-airlines-changes-route-over-eastern-ukraine-after-mh17-shot-down



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/07/17/the-malaysian-flight-that-crashed-in-ukraine-was-on-the-same-route-it-flew-every-day/

[Zippyjuan]

"Other than media"? The internet is a medium.
I believe the BBC which you cited is a medium.

I suppose we could start just making things up ourselves but how valid would that be? But nobody could prove it was wrong!

[HOLLYWOOD]

"Other than media"? The internet is a medium.
I believe the BBC which you cited is a medium.

I suppose we could start just making things up ourselves but how valid would that be? But nobody could prove it was wrong!Go right ahead troll... distract the facts of the previous pages... Tell yah what, go get your boss to call Cheyenne Mountain Complex and have them release the launch data

I'll wait...

[Danke]

Which part- the one about different flights also using the same route- or the part about the plane not flying over the Crimean Peninsula? Or both? (your map does not show it going over the Crimean Peninsula).

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/malaysian-airlines-changes-route-over-eastern-ukraine-after-mh17-shot-down



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/07/17/the-malaysian-flight-that-crashed-in-ukraine-was-on-the-same-route-it-flew-every-day/




http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/07/Screen-Shot-2014-07-17-at-12.11.54-PM.png



http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/07/Screen-Shot-2014-07-17-at-12.13.03-PM.png

This post contradicts itself.

The path of the shot down aircraft went well north of the normal track.

http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/07/Screen-Shot-2014-07-17-at-12.50.03-PM.png

[Zippyjuan]

Since you used BBC, they must be OK. Here is a chart of airline flights in the area:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28357880

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76348000/jpg/_76348115_planefinderflightanalysis_624_latest.jpg

This shows actual flight path pretty close to the one used just the day before.


According to Flight radar24, which also monitors live flight paths, the airlines that most frequently flew over Donetsk in the last week were: Aeroflot (86 flights), Singapore Airlines (75), Ukraine International Airlines (62), Lufthansa (56), and Malaysia Airlines (48).

At the time of the MH17 crash on 17 July, a number of other flights were in the area.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76348000/gif/_76348118_ukraine_flight_paths_624.gif

[mad cow]

I don't think anybody but half the folks on this board think a passenger jet was downed deliberately. Sometimes a mistake is just a mistake. :(

As they used to say on the X-Files "We Are Not Alone".


From CIA assassination cock-up to nefarious Illuminati involvement: The MH17 conspiracy theories doing the internet rounds
Was MH17 shot down by militants trying to assassinate Vladimir Putin?
Was it work of secret society The Illuminati to establish New World Order?
Were MH17 and MH370, which went missing in March, actually same plane?
Theorists ask why victims' pictured passports in such 'pristine' condition
Theories fueled by fact MH17 came down 17 years to day since maiden flight


More at link:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697293/From-CIA-assassination-cock-nefarious-Illuminati-involvement-The-MH17-conspiracy-theories-doing-internet-rounds.html

[LibForestPaul]

Wonder with all the proxy military agents, both Russian, US, British, Ukrainian, and their new toys, if this was nothing more than recklessness and incompetence.

[Peace&Freedom]

As they used to say on the X-Files "We Are Not Alone".


More at link:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697293/From-CIA-assassination-cock-nefarious-Illuminati-involvement-The-MH17-conspiracy-theories-doing-internet-rounds.html

Of course we are not alone, there are covert operatives among us. Surely you (and the Daily Mail) are not suggesting there is NO covert activity involved in this case? At present, Russia lacks the motive to do this, and the separatists lack the motive, and the means to do this (it has NOT been factually established they had the equipment or training).

So in the absence of more disclosed and vetted data, it is perfectly reasonable to suggest several scenarios, vs. "the Russians did it, move along" conspiracy theory approved by the mainstream media.

[PRB]

Ukraine's Security Service Has Confiscated Air Traffic Control Recordings With Malaysian Jet (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/ukraines-security-service-has-confiscated-air-traffic-control-recordings-malaysian-j)

BBC reports (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784)"Ukraine's SBU security service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_Service_of_Ukraine)has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."

http://kwout.com/cutout/a/tn/tj/bqs_bor.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20flight%20paths.png)

MH 17 flight paths (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20flight%20paths.png)

so quick to cover their trails, but not quick enough to avoid being noticed.

we got you now, you're NOT going to get away with it

[PRB]

Of course we are not alone, there are covert operatives among us. Surely you (and the Daily Mail) are not suggesting there is NO covert activity involved in this case? At present, Russia lacks the motive to do this, and the separatists lack the motive, and the means to do this (it has NOT been factually established they had the equipment or training).

So in the absence of more disclosed and vetted data, it is perfectly reasonable to suggest several scenarios, vs. "the Russians did it, move along" conspiracy theory approved by the mainstream media.

yeah, unless they can PROVE there's no conspiracy ,it's a reasonable assumption there is.

the burden of proof is on the official story tellers to correct us.

[Brian4Liberty]

Reagan: "It was an understandable accident."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYyvpGmxZUI

[phill4paul]

Here's something to throw in the mix...


As many as 100 of the world’s leading HIV/Aids researchers and advocates may have been on the Malaysia Airlines flight that crashed in Ukraine, in what has been described as a “devastating” blow to efforts to tackle the virus.

Delegates to a plenary session held ahead of the Aids 2014 conference were told that email exchanges showed about 100 attendees were booked on the MH17 flight. The plane was downed in eastern Ukraine by what the US and Australian governments have described as a surface-to-air missile.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/aids-conference-says-100-researchers-may-have-been-on-board-crashed-plane

[Peace&Freedom]

yeah, unless they can PROVE there's no conspiracy ,it's a reasonable assumption there is.

the burden of proof is on the official story tellers to correct us.

And the establishment's compelling PROOF that "Russia did it, move along" is...? I'm the one pointing out the LACK of conclusive evidence for the mainstream claims, the lack of a motive for the rebels or Russia to be downing civilian planes, the lack of evidence proving the separatists had the means, etc, etc.

Even the plausible sounding supposition that the separatists accidentally shot down what they thought was a military plane is just that, supposition. The BULK of the burden of proof is on the MSM to justify their extreme dogmatism with preponderant evidence. Why so easy on their premature conclusiveness, while being so derisive at the mere suggestion of alternatives?

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

...

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

most of the evidence points to Russian separatists shooting down the MH17 on accident, they even took credit for it on twitter/social media until they discovered it was civilian, then they deleted everything ... unless this information is forged or an elaborate conspiracy, Putin has blood on his hands.

yeah, the social media " proofs " , cause we all know that everyone online is who they say they are. . .

[DevilsAdvocate]

It's a tragedy and all, 300 out of the roughly 7,000,000,000 people on the planet died. But there is no way it is a tragedy of the scale that is being trumpeted all over the news outlets. Obama says it is an “outrage of unspeakable proportions", and uses the opportunity to publicly call out Vladimir Putin.

It makes me think that this is simply another chess move in the politics of Eastern Europe. Once again this is a delightful opportunity for these people to manipulate public opinion.

[2young2vote]

Vice has some very disturbing footage of the wreckage. Don't watch if you are queasy - I had to turn it off when they started showing mangled bodies.

It is a very sad thing. I doubt the higher-ups had the intention of shooting a passenger jet. Especially Putin because he obviously knew he would immediately be blamed. It was most likely a couple of low-level rebel dickheads who thought they were so badass with their fancy weaponry.

[Danke]

On a positive note, I hear Malaysia Airlines has introduced some cheap fares...

I recommend carrying one of these:

http://cdn.paulsmith.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/a/h/ahxa-lugg-25647-b.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/USN_parachute_demo_team_at_Minot_AFB.jpg

[PRB]

And the establishment's compelling PROOF that "Russia did it, move along" is...? I'm the one pointing out the LACK of conclusive evidence for the mainstream claims, the lack of a motive for the rebels or Russia to be downing civilian planes, the lack of evidence proving the separatists had the means, etc, etc.

Even the plausible sounding supposition that the separatists accidentally shot down what they thought was a military plane is just that, supposition. The BULK of the burden of proof is on the MSM to justify their extreme dogmatism with preponderant evidence. Why so easy on their premature conclusiveness, while being so derisive at the mere suggestion of alternatives?

we're not disagreeing now, are we?

[PRB]

yeah, the social media " proofs " , cause we all know that everyone online is who they say they are. . .

if you're accusing them of lying, the onus is on you.

[devil21]

One other possibility is that now 2 777s have disappeared.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDXEgBh0TF0

[luctor-et-emergo]

On a positive note, I hear Malaysia Airlines has introduced some cheap fares...

I recommend carrying one of these:


And one of these as you are most likely to pass out before you can pull the cord.
http://gearjunkie.com/images/220.jpg

Not sure if they will let you take those on an aircraft though.

Btw, sucks if TSA starts unfolding your backpack...

[AngryCanadian]

Reagan: "It was an understandable accident."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYyvpGmxZUI

Yup and where was the western journalism and news media.


Reagen was a Hero. :rolleyes:

[AngryCanadian]

Vice has some very disturbing footage of the wreckage. Don't watch if you are queasy - I had to turn it off when they started showing mangled bodies.

It is a very sad thing. I doubt the higher-ups had the intention of shooting a passenger jet. Especially Putin because he obviously knew he would immediately be blamed. It was most likely a couple of low-level rebel dickheads who thought they were so badass with their fancy weaponry.

The fact that the plane was being followed by Ukrainian fighters i doubt that it were the rebels.

[UWDude]

most of the evidence points to Russian separatists shooting down the MH17 on accident, they even took credit for it on twitter/social media until they discovered it was civilian, then they deleted everything ... unless this information is forged or an elaborate conspiracy, Putin has blood on his hands.

Ukrainian rebels captured SAM missiles that could shoot down an airliner. Putin has done little to help the rebels, or they would not have been driven out of Slavyansk (if Russia wanted they could eliminate the Ukrainina military with a sneeze).

Even if this was a mistake by Ukrainian rebels, Putin does not have blood on his hands.

[UWDude]

http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/07/Screen-Shot-2014-07-17-at-12.11.54-PM.png



http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/07/Screen-Shot-2014-07-17-at-12.13.03-PM.png

Both of those do not fly over Donetsk. Both of those paths are south of it.

[wizardwatson]

Here's some more propaganda for this lovely Saturday.

And again, this was the top story on Google News. I will admit that my searching may be skewed to what I've been clicking on all week, but that doesn't necessarily mean the propaganda isn't aimed at everyone.


With Jet’s Fall, War in Ukraine Becomes Global

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/20/world/europe/with-jets-fall-war-in-ukraine-becomes-global.html?_r=0

...

But in that instant, the monthslong proxy war between East and West took a devastating turn, one that would shift the ground geopolitically amid the charred wreckage and broken bodies in a Ukrainian wheat field.

The downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 rippled across multiple continents, from Amsterdam where friends and family had just seen off their loved ones to the distant shores of Asia and Australia that had been waiting for 298 passengers and crew who would never show up.

...

Get that? It's a "world war".

Now this is mostly an emotional piece for the sheople. It doesn't actually address the aspects of the political state to say why it's a global issue apart from the fact that people from many countries died at once.

It's more of a "Get it in your head it's a global war now" piece.

So obey and start thinking like that. Got it?

[Brian4Liberty]

Here's some more propaganda for this lovely Saturday.


Yep, it's all anti-Russian, reckless interventionism propaganda.

And still, no one asks why the US supported regime in Kiev is using aircraft to bomb and attack it's own citizens. If this was Syria and Assad, John McInsane would be calling for arming the "rebels" and dropping bombs on Kiev.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

yahoo news is touting the Sara Firth resignation from RT story because of downed plane, quoting her saying they were lying

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

funny how very public that resignation was

[Zippyjuan]

Wasn't RT the ones who said that shooting down the plane (which I still think was an accident- they thought it was a Ukrainian plane, not a civilian one) was a failed attempt to kill Putin?

[Petar]

Does anyone else find it rather coincidental that "the big bad Rooskies shoot down a civilian airliner" the very moment that Israel starts to really come under severe international scrutiny regarding its actions in Palestine?