Congressman - Tax Drivers For Every Mile They Drive

[DamianTV]

http://wealthydebates.com/democrat-congressman-tax-drivers-every-mile-drive/


(Penny Starr) While the House and the Senate this week issued measures intended to temporarily replenish the Highway Trust Fund before it runs out of money next month, Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) ended the week by proposing to hike – then abolish – the federal fuel tax and replace it with a per-mile “fee.”

“The policy development that I’m most excited about and that will reinforce the right practices for the future: After we raise the gas tax, we should abolish it,” Blumenauer said on Friday at the liberal Center for American Progress in Washington, D.C. “The time is right to replace the gas tax, because it’s no longer an accurate reflection of road use and benefit because of these wildly changing fuel consumption patterns, and replace it with a vehicle mile travel fee regardless of the choice of vehicle fuel.

...

(Continues on Link)

Obviously, this has NOTHING to do with replenishing the 'Highway Trust Fund', and EVERYTHING to do with TOTAL SURVEILLANCE. The whole thing about "we have the technology" pretty much amounts to a fucking Odometer, not a Govt Mandated GPS that REQUIRES you to violate your 5th Amendment Right so they can take more of what little you have left.

[tod evans]

The idea that government as it sits must be funded is insane!

http://www.twowheelforum.com/images/smilies/hang.gif Get a rope! :mad:

[jkr]

heavier vehicles/ loads do more damage to muh rhooOoodes but will now get sum social justice!
EQUALITY 4 EVRY1!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqK97av7I3s

[ZENemy]

I love my new mountain bike.

[phill4paul]

How about states learning to slash funding in other sectors so that they can maintain their road infrastructure without Fed help. Arizona gets 45% of it's road money from the Fed. N.C. gets 25%.
No one talks about cutting in one area to boost another. It's always more, more, more!

[Kords21]

Politicians should be taxed by the lie

[aGameOfThrones]

I love my new mountain bike.


“The policy development that I’m most excited about and that will reinforce the right practices for the future: After we raise the gas tax, we should abolish it,” Blumenauer said on Friday at the liberal Center for American Progress in Washington, D.C. “The time is right to replace the gas tax, because it’s no longer an accurate reflection of road use and benefit because of these wildly changing fuel consumption patterns, and replace it with a vehicle mile travel fee regardless of the choice of vehicle fuel.

Your sweat is taxable and your bike is a vehicle.

[jkr]

Politicians should be taxed by the lie

FOR THA WIN!!!

[DamianTV]

The idea that government as it sits must be funded is insane!

http://www.twowheelforum.com/images/smilies/hang.gif Get a rope! :mad:

Most people fail to understand how the Federal Reserve Bank is involved in any of this.

First off, Federal Income Taxes go to the Federal Reserve Bank, not the Federal Govt. Income Taxes are NOT a means of paying for Services, these taxes ARE a means of Currency Destruction. Currency Destruction occurs because "money" is created when a person takes out a Loan, but that money is "destroyed" when a Payment on that loan is made. The US Govt "borrows" money from the Federal Reserve Bank, which creates "money", but is "destroyed" when payments are made, which is what Income Tax is intended to do. If that "money" that was created from loans remained in existence, Inflation would be quadruple and quintuple digits.

Fiscal Policy and Monetary Policy

Monetary Policy is CREATING the "money". More appropriately, Currency, big difference. Fiscal Policy is the "destruction" of that "money" to "keep things in balance".

The end result of having a Central Bank is that Govts are no longer held in check by Taxes. They can pretty much spend what ever they want, when ever they want. A Govt that whose spending was Limited by Taxes they could collect would not be able to fund these endless wars. The Central Bank enables them to spend without funding. They no longer care where the "money" comes from. The entire idea of a "Balanced Budget" really has nothing to do with taxing as much as spent. What a "Balanced Budget" essencially means is that Govt is able to "make payments" on the existing debt, which does NOT include the entire balance owed, but only a percentage of that, just as your Credit Card (probably) does not require that you pay off the entire debt each month.

There are many ways to cause harm to a single individual. Physical, Emotional, Food, Financial, Reputational, Medical, Legal, Intellectual, Spiritual, and Sexual. Rough non comprehensive list. Just as there are that many ways to cause harm to an individual, there are many ways to "harm" a Govt or a Country as well. Physical harm to a country would be going to war where Tanks and Bombs are used. The important thing here is that each of those ways can be used as a means of Control. If we do not want violence against our Govt, other methods of the People retaining control over the Govt is needed. If we acted on Violence ONLY, there would be no elections, and people would Riot every time they wanted some very subtle change. Goes back to Broken Window Fallacy. Thus, others measures of Control by the People need to be in place. One of the most important ways is Financial. If people start getting pissed off about something, they can choose to stop paying taxes and cut off the thing the Beast needs to survive. This is where Central Banks come into play. The Central Bank removes the dependancy of the Govt on the taxes of the people as a measure of Control. Just as many people are completely dependant on Govt for things and those people are "more controllable" due to that dependancy, the Govt can be controlled much in the same way. The existence of the Federal Reserve Bank, and any Central Bank eliminates that dependancy. Thus, the Govt of any nation with a Central Bank will be dependant on that Central Bank, thus, the Control of the Govt rests with that Central Bank and not to its People.

We often complain about the abuses of Govt power. But what we dont really ask as frequently is HOW our Police were Militarized. The Militarization requires physical tools (a form of harm) in Guns, Tanks, SWAT Gear, etc, and since each physical thing is a Good that someone must produce, monetary compensation needs to be provided for that gear that is given to the Police. We sure as shit are not going to produce that stuff here, so our Govt borrows tons of money and a lot of this shit gets made in China, Taiwan, or Mexico. If we had a Govt that was completely dependant on Income Taxes, we never would have had a Militarization of Police to begin with to the degree it exists today. It simply could NOT be funded. Bite the hand that feeds you comes to mind, relevant with both funding Govt through Income Taxes or Govt dependancy on its Central Bank.

Central Banks, with their Control over Govt created by Money Dependancy do not want to give up this power. Govts do NOT want to be held accountable to their people. This is one of the reasons we see every Greivance as stated in the Declaration not only remaining unresolved, but escalating in severity. From one perspective, most people understand that neither Votes or Taxes can be used to hold a Govt accountable for its actions. They look at that list of ways to cause harm to an individual and try to select something else from that List. And first on the list is Physical Harm. IE, Revolution. But there are other ways that a Govt can be reigned in. Lists of Harm for Govt and Countries are a bit different than the list for an Individual. Emotional Harm obviously does not apply. Financial (Taxation) does, and Physical does. Supply of Tools that enable Tyranny is one that doesnt apply to an individual, but does apply on a much larger scale. The Militarized Police come from their supply of Tools and ability to purchase those Tools. And the NSA is also a Tool. Nukes are Tools. Code Enforcers are Tools. Propoganda is a Tool. They all require funding, and they all require that each Tool be used for its intended purpose.

To make this post relevant, this is exactly why Tracking of Individuals is so important to Govt. Invasion of Privacy is a Tool for Govt Control, a Govt which is in turn, Controlled by its Central Bank. Central Banks think they OWN the People, and Govt is their Tool for control of those People. EVERY Invasion of Privacy is an indirect result of the existence of a Central Bank. It can happen without a Central Bank, but not to the degree that it has happened here, today. But lets dig deeper. Since Control of Everything is the ultimate goal of those who want to own the world, literally, EVERY RIGHTS VIOLATION is a result of the existence of a Central Bank. As Endgame draws closer and closer, the extent to which the Rights of the People are violated can only continue to escalate. More people will be shot. More people imprisoned for ever escalating Crimes of Trivialtiy. More people will have their Rights violated. More forms of Spying will be applied. More poverty. More illness. More stupidity. More Rape. More starvation. More Dehumanizing the Human Livestock.

Its not a perfect analogy, but am I wrong on any of this?

(Note: This is not intended as a Call for Violence against our Govt, this is another Call for Balance between the Power of the Govt and the Power of the People.)

[bunklocoempire]

Why don't you figure out how to balance a check book first and then get back to us about these complicated roads. FOAD

[DamianTV]

How about states learning to slash funding in other sectors so that they can maintain their road infrastructure without Fed help. Arizona gets 45% of it's road money from the Fed. N.C. gets 25%.
No one talks about cutting in one area to boost another. It's always more, more, more!

The only way to accomplish this is to end their Money Supply, addressed in longwinded post above.

[phill4paul]

The only way to accomplish this is to end their Money Supply, addressed in longwinded post above.

I've done my part. Four years running as a conscientious tax protester. I will not fund this empire.

[euphemia]

Besides the constant goverment tracking, there are a few other things that bother me.

1. The economy depends on shipping goods from one place to another. This means government will create loopholes or exceptions. The laws should be applied as fairly as possible. Overtaxing one segment of society creates hardship and limits freedom.

2. Business needs to travel. Sales and tourism depend on travel. Driving is still the cheapest way for families to travel.

3. Per-mile taxes would harm the auto and energy industries. Jobs will be lost. I'm afraid innovation in technology (with all the layers of government regulation already in place) will not be economically feasible.

What this represents is a limitation of freedom for all but the very wealthy.

[DamianTV]

I've done my part. Four years running as a conscientious tax protester. I will not fund this empire.

I think there are two ways to interpret this:


One: It doesnt matter if you do or dont pay taxes, they get their funding from elsewhere.
Two: Death by Unpayable Debt. Thus, not paying taxes can be effective because they will drown in their own debt.



Me? I lean toward Option 1, but that just leaves us less options.

[Legend1104]

Taxing per mile is like raising income taxes across the board. This is a general tax on everyone so everyone will be affected. Thus both democratic and republican voters will be against this.

[Brian4Liberty]

Here's one response:

488838097061179392

[Brian4Liberty]

488838930469367808

[phill4paul]

I think there are two ways to interpret this:


One: It doesnt matter if you do or dont pay taxes, they get their funding from elsewhere.
Two: Death by Unpayable Debt. Thus, not paying taxes can be effective because they will drown in their own debt.



Me? I lean toward Option 1, but that just leaves us less options.

It really doesn't matter. Except to me. And that, to me, means everything. ;)

[Brian4Liberty]

Obviously, this has NOTHING to do with replenishing the 'Highway Trust Fund', and EVERYTHING to do with TOTAL SURVEILLANCE. The whole thing about "we have the technology" pretty much amounts to a fucking Odometer, not a Govt Mandated GPS that REQUIRES you to violate your 5th Amendment Right so they can take more of what little you have left.

It's a two for one with these asshats. Mo' money for them to spend, and Big Brother surveillance at the same time.


Replacing it would be “a more sustainable, stable funding source” tied to electronic tallies of each car’s miles driven.

To provide a test of that system, his other sponsored bill -- The Road Usage Fee Pilot Program -- would make grants to selected cities and states to conduct studies on “on implementing mileage-based fee systems.” (The Center for American Progress recommends that 10-15 states be involved.)

Possible methods for recording and reporting the number of miles traveled by a vehicle include an iPhone application, an onboard navigation device, or simply going to the local motor vehicle administration and having the odometer checked, Blumenauer said.

While the proposal has raised some concerns about privacy issues, its sponsor said the legislation ensures the privacy of drivers is protected [LOL!].

“We don't care where you go,” Blumenauer insisted. “We care how far you go.”

He also asserted that the technology could make life easier for drivers, as they could use it to pay for Amtrak, buses and parking (and even find the nearest open parking spot and determine how much it would cost to park there).
...
Read more: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/07/11/congressman_wants_gas_tax_replaced_by_mileage_fee_ 123292.html

[DamianTV]

“We don't care where you go,” Blumenauer insisted. “We care how far you go.”

Then why do they care about anything MORE than an already existing Odometer?

Thats the Triple Whammy:

#1 End your Privacy
#2 Take more Money
#3 Three Felonies Per Day, probably to include Speeding

[HOLLYWOOD]

same shit, another day.. BUT there is a motive...

Any time you see these 2 bit Marxist-Leninist puppets spewing the same rhetoric, you know there's plan put in motion. Remember, anytime government, regardless of party, has their cronies pushing the same public propaganda, you know it was covertly planned and a coordinated distribution through the public airwaves.

These 2 bit CON MEN and their operations are so easily revealed... to the diligent well informed, researching American.

Watch, watch either of the thieving 2 party dictatorship, they always start a timely/coordinated barking session on the same special interest issue, when the green light is given to go public... OH... and that includes their PR firms of corporate media shilling the same tune.

PS: ...AND IT ALWAYS includes stealing more money from the individual. HAH, LOOK BELOW... another liberal politician on Washington Journal Today, yes today, pushing for an increase in fuel taxes and taxing by the mile. Color me surprised you political amateurs :rolleyes:

http://kwout.com/cutout/f/6w/4k/nif_bor.jpg

Washington Journal | C-SPAN (http://series.c-span.org/Journal/#)

[tod evans]

Then why do they care about anything MORE than an already existing Odometer?

Thats the Triple Whammy:

#1 End your Privacy
#2 Take more Money
#3 Three Felonies Per Day, probably to include Speeding

Don't forget the wars on us...

Any type of surveillance device will be used in whichever war is popular at the time...Drugs, terrorism, anti-government speech......

[Brian4Liberty]

Wow, this Congressman is one of the worst!

488710004942589952

[phill4paul]

Wow, this Congressman is one of the worst!

488710004942589952

Then suit up Earl. Their country needs you. Ours..not so much.

[Anti Federalist]

Only a matter of time.

Bet your ass the self driving people pods will be taxed by the mile for all the added "safety infrastructure" required.

And not a fuck will be given.

[euphemia]

This phrase right here
The policy development that I’m most excited about and that will reinforce the right practices for the future does not sound like it comes from someone who wants to ensure freedom for anyone.

[Anti Federalist]

While the proposal has raised some concerns about privacy issues, its sponsor said the legislation ensures the privacy of drivers is protected

http://www.currentinspiration.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Funny-men-laughing-cartoon-you-want-it-when-300x150.jpg

[DamianTV]

First they say Invasion of Privacy is no big deal because no one does anything with that data.

They say invasion of privacy is no big deal, if you're doing nothing wrong. (Thanks AF)

Then they say Invasion of Privacy is a good thing because they protect you from bad guys.

Then they say Invasion of Privacy needs to be expanded because you are probably a Criminal.

Then you are in Prison because of a Thought Crime, and that data was not only used, it was used against you.

[Anti Federalist]

First they say Invasion of Privacy is no big deal because no one does anything with that data.

THen they say Invasion of Privacy is a good thing because they protect you from bad guys.

Then they say Invasion of Privacy needs to be expanded because you are probably a Criminal.

Then you are in Prison because of a Thought Crime, and that data was not only used, it was used against you.

You forgot one step, somewhere between 1 and 2.

"They say invasion of privacy is no big deal, if you're doing nothing wrong."

[DamianTV]

You forgot one step, somewhere between 1 and 2.

"They say invasion of privacy is no big deal, if you're doing nothing wrong."

Agree. Fixed.

[jbauer]

Gonna get blasted here and I agree there are some significant privacy issues as well as some excessive funding concerns.

However, shouldn't those that use the road pay for it? Wouldn't charging per mile be a fairer way of doing so? At least this guy wants to eliminate one tax in favor of a more representative tax. All the other proposals I've seen wants to keep the gas tax and add on a per mile tax.

I thought libertarians were supposed to take personal responsibility for themselves AND pay for it?

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Congressman already showed how much of a bullshit artist/dumb asshole he is when he said the gas tax doesn't represent usage. The more you drive, the more gas you use, asshole.

[Brian4Liberty]

Congressman already showed how much of a bullshit artist/dumb asshole he is when he said the gas tax doesn't represent usage. The more you drive, the more gas you use, asshole.

That has been the standard and more "fair" model.

They fear electric or hydrogen fueled cars, where gasoline isn't purchased. But more relevant to the current situation, a long term recession has decreased gasoline usage, and so has better gas mileage cars.

[acptulsa]

Well, what do you know? The liberals began agitating about a problem--dependence on foreign oil and petroleum emissions--without even considering the other problems they would create when they did so. Private enterprise came up with a solution to that problem, crating the other problems, while the liberals were busy telling those who sagely predicted that they would cause other problems that they were crazy. And then the other problems surfaced, and the liberals promptly forgot that they pretend to be civil libertarians and seized on the solution to the new problems--warrantless and unwarranted spying.

Not to mention proposing something that, on the face of it, seems poised to subsidize big trucking corporations at the expense of socially responsible (and healthy) bicyclists.

And still we're the ones who are crazy.

And we are. But in an insane world, crazy is the new sane. So, we've come to wear the label 'crazy' with pride. Oh, and another thing. We told you so. Didn't we?

[muh_roads]

issued measures intended to temporarily replenish the Highway Trust Fund before it runs out of money next month

Hey Uncle Sam, how about you pay for a few less bombs that kill Pakistani children instead?

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Hey Uncle Sam, how about you pay for a few less bombs that kill Pakistani children instead?

shut up you farking anti-semetic /sarcasm

[LibForestPaul]

How about states learning to slash funding in other sectors so that they can maintain their road infrastructure without Fed help. Arizona gets 45% of it's road money from the Fed. N.C. gets 25%.
No one talks about cutting in one area to boost another. It's always more, more, more!

If you pontificated and produced nothing of value, you would want more more more as well. What else are cronies and bureaucrats going to do?

[Weston White]

The premise for this tax proposal is faulty; it asserts that the tax upon fuel purchases is levied with direct respect to covering the future costs of roadway repair as roadways diminish, as if roadway travel is directly correlated to each gallon of fuel consumed, which it is not—that tax money just goes into the general fund and the government does whatever they desire with for that fiscal year, then they simply pull other available revenues to cover whatever new roadway repairs or expansion projects happening to arise afterward.

Under the premise of this tax proposal, if it assertions held any truth, then virtually every stretch of road all throughout the United States would exist in magnificent condition, which clearly is not nor has never been the case.

Requiring an excise tax is one thing, but requiring the installation of devices and the like to be installed into intrastate private property is entirely another; ergo, what constitutional power does the federal government possess to accomplish these ends (i.e., the commence clause is not applicable in this instance)?

How are total miles traveled relative to actual roadway wear and tear? Does not the class of vehicles traversing a given section of roadway, local weather conditions and environment play a much larger roll in this regard (e.g., dry heat; flood zones; earth trimmers; paralleling railroad tracks; sharp bends, curves, and pitched angles; sinkholes; etc?)

How is it at all justified to tax a light passenger vehicle or motorcycle the same as a loaded big-rig, construction equipment, or 1-ton flatbed pickup?

The only way such a method of taxation would at all be legally justified is to impose it only on commercial, for-profit, vehicles that frequently travel from state-to-state; otherwise such a tax is only within the powers of state sovereignty to impose. Regardless, it is a blatantly tyrannical method of taxation.

Furthermore, how is it expected to function, wirelessly? Really now, is this what we need more wireless transmissions shooting all over the place, which will be open to hacking, vandalism, and whatnot; and will further interfere with cell-phone and even more importantly with police, fire, and ambulance transmissions, further degrading them. And which will result in additional operating costs for vehicle owners in the maintenance and repair of this complex and fragile electronic equipment (and obviously for vehicle manufactures and purchasers).

[devil21]

Taxes are never repealed so the fuel tax won't go away. Then there's the part of the proposal that includes adding more tolls on federal highways. Like George Carlin said "They want it all back. And they'll get it too."

Major large tax initiatives like these make me wonder what condition the dollar will be in by the time it's implemented.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Taxes are never repealed so the fuel tax won't go away. Then there's the part of the proposal that includes adding more tolls on federal highways. Like George Carlin said "They want it all back. And they'll get it too."

Major large tax initiatives like these make me wonder what condition the dollar will be in by the time it's implemented.France here we come! Taxed to death by more and more taxes.

It's all going to kill the economy as you know it, just like ObamaCare taking a huge slice with the 21 new or increased Fees and Taxes.

Zero Freedom in this country...

[DamianTV]

That has been the standard and more "fair" model.

They fear electric or hydrogen fueled cars, where gasoline isn't purchased. But more relevant to the current situation, a long term recession has decreased gasoline usage, and so has better gas mileage cars.

Thats cuz people arent driving back and forth to work. Hell, a tank of gas now lasts me about a month.

[LibForestPaul]

Gonna get blasted here and I agree there are some significant privacy issues as well as some excessive funding concerns.

However, shouldn't those that use the road pay for it? Wouldn't charging per mile be a fairer way of doing so? At least this guy wants to eliminate one tax in favor of a more representative tax. All the other proposals I've seen wants to keep the gas tax and add on a per mile tax.

I thought libertarians were supposed to take personal responsibility for themselves AND pay for it?

1. state issue, not federal
2. no federal taxing, authority, or spending.
3. states decide how to pay for their roads.
...liberty
4. no "public" roads