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LibertyEagle
07-10-2014, 03:18 PM
Act of War on America – Mexico and Guatemala Sign Agreement to Fast-Track Invasion of U.S.


A Monday joint press conference was held by Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto and Guatemalan president Otto Perez Molina to announce their agreement to jointly cooperate (http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion-mexico/2014/impreso/mexico-y-guatemala-protegeran-a-migrantes-216921.html)in and facilitate the invasion of their northern neighbor, the United States.

Labeled “The Southern Border Program to Improve Passage,” it is an officially-sanctioned, coordinated effort on the part of Mexico and the nations of Central America to invade (http://www.examiner.com/article/mexico-made-deal-to-send-more-illegal-aliens-to-the-u-s)the United States.

The agreement provides a network of border checkpoints through which an internal Mexican travel document will be issued, which is valid for a period of 72 hours. That document, known as a Regional Visitor’s Card, will provide temporary legal status to those in Mexico illegally for the sole purpose of invading the United States.

The announcement, officially granting the “privileges” to illegals from Guatemala and Belize, is expected to be applied to anyone who reaches the southern Mexican border with the intention of invading America.

Additionally, this action even provides special protections as well as financial assistance to unaccompanied minors.

read the rest... (http://dcgazette.com/act-of-war-on-america-mexico-and-guatemala-sign-agreement-to-fast-track-invasion-of-u-s/)

Tywysog Cymru
07-10-2014, 03:20 PM
They shouldn't do this, but is this really an act of war?

tod evans
07-10-2014, 04:33 PM
The United States joins with its Southern neighbors Mexico and the nations of Central America in an effort to jointly cooperate in and facilitate the invasion of their northern neighbor, Canada...

Being the socialist mecca that it is, and with it's sparse population per acre, especially in its Northern half, it has been determined that these poor lost and misguided souls should have the opportunity to homestead a parcel of land for themselves.

Too this end the United States government has borrowed monies from productive nations such as China in order to supply these "children" transportation and security to the Canadian border. According to Newz releases American talk show hosts are providing games and underwear by the truckload.

More logical folks have expressed the notion that possibly axes and parkas would be more suitable for these immigrants but their ideas have been rejected as racist...


[snark]

DamianTV
07-10-2014, 05:09 PM
Export Jobs: Done
Import Ghettos: In progress...

erowe1
07-10-2014, 05:10 PM
How can anyone conceive of this as an act of war?

TheCount
07-10-2014, 05:15 PM
How can anyone conceive of this as an act of war?

Collectivism is a helluva drug...

kcchiefs6465
07-10-2014, 05:37 PM
Collectivism is a helluva drug...
Well, collectivism is part of the reason why they are coming here.

That is, people have decided that the majority's vote has some sort of authority over the minority's vote/non-vote. You may have noticed the countless special interest groups whoring Congress for political gain, and the various things given away at the expense of others. Including these bus rides, healthcare, etc. So naturally many of the people who want something for "free" (simply meaning they do not rightly deserve it or that it is at the expense of someone else) and aren't getting it, who see these people getting something for "free," are going to be upset. And xenophobia/'Merica first has been taught since before their public school days.

In short, no one should be given a benefit at the expense of others. The majority has no legitimate authority to dictate what is done with another's property. And the law should serve to ensure justice. Since none of these three things will ever happen, absent Divine Intervention itself, people wish to build walls and have troops along the border. They espouse things about "invasions" and "floods". Rather familiar talk, actually, as the majority of America believes in that protectionist nonsense in some form or another-- The government to solve the government created problems. And I'm supposedly the one with my head in the sand. It's kind of funny though, I took the title at face value. I should have known that the only one doing invading around this part of the world is the United States with its CIA funded death squads and cadres of torturing vermin (which shockingly doesn't exactly make people wish to stay in the hell holes affected by the decades of thuggish US policy).

kcchiefs6465
07-10-2014, 05:43 PM
As far as an act of war goes.. When did you enlist, LE?

Or do you just suppose that the young and healthy should have their lives permanently affected, limbs ripped off, their mind destroyed, that sort of thing?

Because trust and believe if Mexico or Guatemala actually did invade the United States, you wouldn't need propaganda, exaggerations, and acts of chickenhawks to raise the defense.

DamianTV
07-10-2014, 05:46 PM
How can anyone conceive of this as an act of war?

Would you just let them ALL in and take care of ALL of them for the rest of their natural born lives? All 165,000,000 of them? Can you afford it? Im sorry their situation sucks. It really does. But moving from one place to another at the expense of those who live where they are moving to isnt going to solve anything for either side.

Anti Federalist
07-10-2014, 05:57 PM
Blowback.

We've been waging war in Central America since Smedley Butler's time.

Anti Federalist
07-10-2014, 05:59 PM
How can anyone conceive of this as an act of war?

Demographic war, without a doubt.

Nothing new either, in fact, one of the oldest forms of warfare.

ZENemy
07-10-2014, 06:09 PM
The word war has infected all forms of expression.

kcchiefs6465
07-10-2014, 06:11 PM
Demographic war, without a doubt.

Nothing new either, in fact, one of the oldest forms of warfare.
If you think they'd be any worse by a voting standard than the vast majority of your peers (like, what, 99.5%), you are smoking something strong.

You are probably in the slim minority who is more so worried about the ideology they come from under. People from the Eastern Bloc nations weren't by and large coming here to establish communism. They were coming here for freedom and opportunity. And if the shortsighted and naive get their way, creating a standard for checkpoints, a barricade, and a further police state atmosphere (drones, troops, jackboots), they will finally have their wish... As no one in their right mind will want to come here.

enhanced_deficit
07-10-2014, 06:14 PM
Blowback.

We've been waging war in Central America since Smedley Butler's time.

^^ this.


U.S. neoconservatives also share blame for Central America child refugee crisis (http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/neoconservatives-america-refugee.html)

Anti Federalist
07-10-2014, 06:16 PM
You are probably in the slim minority who is more so worried about the ideology they come from under.

This.

I view them just as I view as Massholes moving to NH, only from another country.

Are there any countries in Central and South America that have not "elected" socialists or outright Communists as their "leaders"?

DamianTV
07-10-2014, 06:19 PM
Just as there are many ways to cause harm to an individual, there are many ways to harm a country as well. Here are a couple of ways to harm an individual. Physical, Emotional, Reputational, Legal, Financial, Food, Medical, Spiritual, Sexual, Intellectual. Some could be lumped together, some more could be added. That list is not exactly comprehensive, but just as there are many ways to cause harm to an individual, there are many ways a country as a whole can be harmed as well. Some of those things listed can be transferred, some exist only at the individual level, and some exist only at a Country level.

The United States is well known for engaging into endless wars onto any country that does not want to buy OPEC Oil in US Dollars. This could be equated to Financial Harm if applied to an Individual level. What would not exist at an Individual level would be a Demographic harm as once a persons ethnicity or country of origin is set, it cant be altered for an individual. But this can be applied at a Country level. Almost every single person in this country has family that immigrated from somewhere else. That isnt the issue. The issue is that the volume of influx is systematically replacing the current demographic of this country. Corporations are looking at this as favorable because of how employing immigrants benefits that Corporation at the expense of the current demographic. Congress looks at this favorably because of how the replacement demographic tends to vote. This is all being done at the expense of the existing demographic. The US most definitely fucked the Native American Indians over and did the same damn thing. Now we are the ones being systematically replaced, and all to benefit small groups of dominant men.

Every type of harm that can be committed against a country is an Act of War. It doesnt always require this country sends Tanks and Bombs. One country can harm another Financially or Demographically. The country can also be harmed in many many other ways. And systematic replacement of the populus of the invaded country is another Act of War, but it is not done with Guns, Tanks or Bombs, well, yet anyway.

Saying this is not an Act of War is no different than trying to stick up for Germany when they sent those Tanks and Bombs to everyone else in Europe. Despite the lack of Tanks and Bombs, this is nothing short of a Full Scale Invasion, incentivized by our Govt at the expense of our people.

XNavyNuke
07-10-2014, 06:22 PM
How can anyone conceive of this as an act of war?

Myron Weiner. 'Sons of the Soil' theory. Migration and its role in civil wars. Since WW2, at least sixteen civil wars have been instigated in whole, or part, by migration. Driving refugees across the border of your enemies to destabilize them is a valid stratagem.

XNN

mrsat_98
07-10-2014, 06:26 PM
How can anyone conceive of this as an act of war?

Biological warfare (BW)—also known as germ warfare—is the use of biological toxins or infectious agents such as bacteria, viruses, and fungi with intent to kill or incapacitate humans, animals or plants as an act of war. Biological weapons (often termed "bio-weapons", "biological threat agents", or "bio-agents") are living organisms or replicating entities (viruses, which are not universally considered "alive") that reproduce or replicate within their host victims. Entomological (insect) warfare is also considered a type of biological weapon. This type of warfare is distinct from nuclear warfare and chemical warfare, which together make up NBC, the military acronym for nuclear, biological, and chemical (warfare or weapons), all of which are considered "weapons of mass destruction" (WMDs). None of these fall under the term conventional weapons which are primarily effective due to their destructive potential.

Biological weapons may be employed in various ways to gain a strategic or tactical advantage over the enemy, either by threats or by actual deployments. Like some of the chemical weapons, biological weapons may also be useful as area denial weapons. These agents may be lethal or non-lethal, and may be targeted against a single individual, a group of people, or even an entire population. They may be developed, acquired, stockpiled or deployed by nation states or by non-national groups. In the latter case, or if a nation-state uses it clandestinely, it may also be considered bioterrorism.[1]

There is an overlap between BW and chemical warfare, as the use of toxins produced by living organisms is considered under the provisions of both the Biological Weapons Convention and the Chemical Weapons Convention. Toxins and psychochemical weapons are often referred to as midspectrum agents. Unlike bioweapons, these midspectrum agents do not reproduce in their host and are typically characterized by shorter incubation periods.[2]

Feeding the Abscess
07-10-2014, 06:26 PM
Blowback.

We've been waging war in Central America since Smedley Butler's time.

Quoting this like I did Rothbardian Girl's post yesterday.

Fat chance you'll ever hear anything about blowback from US foreign policy on Fox. Or any conservative outlet.

kcchiefs6465
07-10-2014, 06:30 PM
This.

I view them just as I view as Massholes moving to NH, only from another country.

Are there any countries in Central and South America that have not "elected" socialists or outright Communists as their "leaders"?
The people who were tortured, murdered, and buried.

Their elections are by and large shams. The United States hands being in them is quite well sourced.

I'm not saying that there aren't plenty a socialists there... there are plenty of socialists here (people just don't like to work.. want things at the expense of others.. and wouldn't read a book on a rainy day)... I'm just saying it could be rather dangerous to speak of certain things down there. It is part of the reason many fled.

The list of interventions there is about as long as my arm and the art of surveillance, rooting out dissidents, and torture was taught to the most ruthless of the ruthless at the School of the Americas and now WHISC (many of whom went out to commit war crimes being funded by CIA black budget dollars).

I have some of their manuals and have posted them a few times. I think people fleeing from socialist despots would be more likely to welcome freedom than those getting something for nothing. But of course, many are coming here to get something for nothing. I doubt the numbers are what the fear mongers proclaim, but certainly where there is government cheese, the rats will show up. The solution would be to end plunder. Not to further hamper my movement. And speaking as one paying for all of this bullshit, the immigrant's privileges and the police state enthusiasts, while making a meager wage myself, perhaps people need to stop and think about the forgotten man.. instead of bickering about how the pittance they steal from me should be squandered. And truth be told, I'd prefer the illiterate, can't speak a lick of English, socialist migrant, over the just got home from Afghanistan, on again then off again their medication, steroid consuming, automatic weapon toting, federally funded, "freedom spreaders."

kcchiefs6465
07-10-2014, 06:32 PM
Biological warfare (BW)—also known as germ warfare—is the use of biological toxins or infectious agents such as bacteria, viruses, and fungi with intent to kill or incapacitate humans, animals or plants as an act of war. Biological weapons (often termed "bio-weapons", "biological threat agents", or "bio-agents") are living organisms or replicating entities (viruses, which are not universally considered "alive") that reproduce or replicate within their host victims. Entomological (insect) warfare is also considered a type of biological weapon. This type of warfare is distinct from nuclear warfare and chemical warfare, which together make up NBC, the military acronym for nuclear, biological, and chemical (warfare or weapons), all of which are considered "weapons of mass destruction" (WMDs). None of these fall under the term conventional weapons which are primarily effective due to their destructive potential.

Biological weapons may be employed in various ways to gain a strategic or tactical advantage over the enemy, either by threats or by actual deployments. Like some of the chemical weapons, biological weapons may also be useful as area denial weapons. These agents may be lethal or non-lethal, and may be targeted against a single individual, a group of people, or even an entire population. They may be developed, acquired, stockpiled or deployed by nation states or by non-national groups. In the latter case, or if a nation-state uses it clandestinely, it may also be considered bioterrorism.[1]

There is an overlap between BW and chemical warfare, as the use of toxins produced by living organisms is considered under the provisions of both the Biological Weapons Convention and the Chemical Weapons Convention. Toxins and psychochemical weapons are often referred to as midspectrum agents. Unlike bioweapons, these midspectrum agents do not reproduce in their host and are typically characterized by shorter incubation periods.[2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrWoG8IckyE

kcchiefs6465
07-10-2014, 06:38 PM
Myron Weiner. 'Sons of the Soil' theory. Migration and its role in civil wars. Since WW2, at least sixteen civil wars have been instigated in whole, or part, by migration. Driving refugees across the border of your enemies to destabilize them is a valid stratagem.

XNN
You are referring to when outside forces force people who have disliked each other for many generations into living along side each other, into conducting politics under one system etc., correct?

Like when imperialist nations are shortsighted and ignorant of ethnic relationships?

(I have not read the book, simply searched for it, and got that general impression)

Can you give a few of the sixteen examples for reference?

thoughtomator
07-10-2014, 06:39 PM
They shouldn't do this, but is this really an act of war?

Oh yes, in a big way.

Demigod
07-10-2014, 06:52 PM
How can anyone conceive of this as an act of war?

In 1999 NATO was bombing Yugoslavia ,several hundred thousand Albanians came in my country as refugees ,initially the army was sent to the border to push them back but USA,NATO and the EU forced us to take them in.My country has a population of 2 million and somewhere around 350+ thousand refugees came in ,they were feed and provided ( there were less than 10 casualties ,although the EU complained that they didn't had accesses to tennis fields ) for a couple of months then when they were asked to leave most didn't. The criminals that came with them spread their organisations in our country and two years later there was a civil war.NATO refused to seal the Kosovo border from their side ( at that time NATO controlled Kosovo ) because of human rights so they had a corridor for reinforcements and supplies.

You can bet your ass that immigration ( especially in mass ) can be an act of war.Everyone here talks all the time how the welfare system will collapse one day.When that happens most of these immigrants will be putting your heads on spikes.

Anti Federalist
07-10-2014, 07:00 PM
I think people fleeing from socialist despots would be more likely to welcome freedom than those getting something for nothing.

I wish that was the case, but it is not.

I have seen it enough times in my life, people fleeing the high taxes and regulations of socialist state like NJ or NY or MA and then, almost immediately, start agitating and OMGing and pushing for the exact same things they just fled from.

The voting results from south and central American immigrants indicate an overwhelming support for more government.

tod evans
07-10-2014, 07:01 PM
.Everyone here talks all the time how the welfare system will collapse one day.When that happens most of these immigrants will be putting your heads on spikes.

Yankees and Coastal folks don't fare well in the Ozarks........Immigrants have no chance at all.

Anti Federalist
07-10-2014, 07:01 PM
Everyone here talks all the time how the welfare system will collapse one day. When that happens most of these immigrants will be putting your heads on spikes.

+rep

presence
07-10-2014, 07:01 PM
This belongs here:



Reconquista: The Mexican Border from Historical Perspective (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?455442-Reconquista-The-Mexican-Border-from-Historical-Perspective)

Started by presence (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?36577-presence), Yesterday


It is our political destiny and our right to self-determination to want to have our homeland [back]. Whether they like it or not is immaterial. If they call us radicals or subversives or separatists, that's their problem. This is our home, and this is our homeland, and we are entitled to it. We are the host. Everyone else is a guest.

Anti Federalist
07-10-2014, 07:05 PM
Their elections are by and large shams.

And ours are...what? ;)


And truth be told, I'd prefer the illiterate, can't speak a lick of English, socialist migrant, over the just got home from Afghanistan, on again then off again their medication, steroid consuming, automatic weapon toting, federally funded, "freedom spreaders."

I'd prefer neither.

ETA - But that is a valid point.

The jihadist or the immigrant is not likely to kick my door down and kill my dog or blow up my kids.

The "freedom spreader" who now is re-assigned to Battleground AmeriKa, out on patrol in his seKtor, is.

kcchiefs6465
07-10-2014, 07:07 PM
In 1999 NATO was bombing Yugoslavia ,several hundred thousand Albanians came in my country as refugees ,initially the army was sent to the border to push them back but USA,NATO and the EU forced us to take them in.My country has a population of 2 million and somewhere around 350+ thousand refugees came in ,they were feed and provided ( there were less than 10 casualties ,although the EU complained that they didn't had accesses to tennis fields ) for a couple of months then when they were asked to leave most didn't. The criminals that came with them spread their organisations in our country and two years later my country was at war.NATO refused to seal the Kosovo border from their side because of human rights so they had a corridor for reinforcements and supplies.

So you can bet your ass that immigration ( especially in mass ) can be an act of war.Everyone here talks all the time how the welfare system will collapse one day.When that happens most of these immigrants will be putting your heads on spikes.
I would like for your first sentence to be noted by all.

As to your last, when it happens the immigrants won't be necessarily the ones to worry about.

Demigod
07-10-2014, 07:12 PM
I would like for your first sentence to be noted by all.

As to your last, when it happens the immigrants won't be necessarily the ones to worry about.

There is a difference between my country we are a banana republic in the worlds crossroad.You are the USA no one can force you to take them in.You are basically digging your own grave.

tod evans
07-10-2014, 07:14 PM
There is a difference between my country we are a banana republic in the worlds crossroad.You are the USA no one can force you to take them in.You are basically digging your own grave.

That deserves repeating in a louder voice...

kcchiefs6465
07-10-2014, 07:15 PM
I wish that was the case, but it is not.

I have seen it enough times in my life, people fleeing the high taxes and regulations of socialist state like NJ or NY or MA and then, almost immediately, start agitating and OMGing and pushing for the exact same things they just fled from.

The voting results from south and central American immigrants indicate an overwhelming support for more government.
I am still developing my thesis on this.

So far, various natural humans attributes (one's inclination to prefer rest over work, for instance and etc.) and sociological predictabilities (group think) has allowed for a collaring of those who for whatever reason do not think about things as others do. Who rather than the [faulty] assurance of food, or clothing, would prefer the assurance of justice and freedom.

It's rather observable how the average person cares more about who won the World Cup than the income tax. And do they even know of the gasoline tax?

NH does sound rather nice, though.

kcchiefs6465
07-10-2014, 07:24 PM
There is a difference between my country we are a banana republic in the worlds crossroad.You are the USA no one can force you to take them in.You are basically digging your own grave.
This country was bought and sold before I was born. The people crave as much. I get your point, but trust and believe, having lived where most would not even drive through, and adequately willing to defend my property and family, I'm not worried about a damn thing.

Most the people coming are not of the criminal element. As this government picked winners and losers there where you live, you'd be unsurprised that they pick winners and losers here. Some very bad people they sponsor. Many of them create immigrants (rather, in some instances, refugees). I'd be more at peace if all that wasn't funded, rather than having Gestapo checkpoints.

And the USA doesn't consult with me or by and large even the majority of the people. They propagandize and pimp narratives to the half-wits and do what they damn well please. A recent study confirmed the obvious for anyone who has even remotely been paying attention.

ETA: "Here" being this general hemisphere of the earth.

Anti Federalist
07-10-2014, 08:24 PM
I am still developing my thesis on this.

So far, various natural humans attributes (one's inclination to prefer rest over work, for instance and etc.) and sociological predictabilities (group think) has allowed for a collaring of those who for whatever reason do not think about things as others do. Who rather than the [faulty] assurance of food, or clothing, would prefer the assurance of justice and freedom.

It's rather observable how the average person cares more about who won the World Cup than the income tax. And do they even know of the gasoline tax?

Fed, Entertained, Exercising Petty Power.


NH does sound rather nice, though.

All my windows are open and I'm looking out at the trees and stream and forest that is my "back forty"

It is 58°

Yes, NH is very nice.

Anti Federalist
07-10-2014, 08:24 PM
///

Deborah K
07-10-2014, 08:30 PM
Certain people still don't seem to understand that this tactic could create the flash point most of us have been expecting for a few years now. And yes, this is a tactic. The families of these kids have been lured here through advertisements in their countries of origin. There is a purpose to this whole thing. Don't doubt it for a minute.

Zippyjuan
07-10-2014, 08:45 PM
nm

Origanalist
07-10-2014, 09:12 PM
nm

Good choice.

Dianne
07-10-2014, 09:34 PM
What better time to invade U.S. ? We have a "gay" Michael Jackson personality lunatic in the White House and a Tranny husband ... who proved to the world .. there is no country dumber than the United States of America that could elect a gay guy with a tranny husband just because he appears to be black and likes beer and football; although I believe he is a Saudi ... looks can "KILL". Whatever... If I were any country I would invade us now .. Dumber and Dumber ruling the roost. And the U.S. electorate passed the dumbass test ... no doubt about that .. We proved sheer stupidity when we elected George Bush, Jr. after his microphish records disappeard ... Oh well .. hopefully no place to go but upwards ... since we reached the bottom of the pits.

fisharmor
07-10-2014, 09:39 PM
O M F G I MIGHT HAVE MORE THAN TWO PEOPLE OFFERING TO CUT MY GRASS OR HANG MY DRYWALL FOR A SUBSTANDARD WAGE
THIS IS IT FOLKS, TEOTWAWKI IS HERE

RonPaulMall
07-11-2014, 08:29 AM
O M F G I MIGHT HAVE MORE THAN TWO PEOPLE OFFERING TO CUT MY GRASS OR HANG MY DRYWALL FOR A SUBSTANDARD WAGE
THIS IS IT FOLKS, TEOTWAWKI IS HERE

There is a reason the elites are so keen to import a massive permanent underclass. You might not think it is important whether you live in a country where there is a large and healthy middle class, but you should at least ask yourself why the elites care so much about shifting society towards the Brazilian model.

fisharmor
07-11-2014, 08:57 AM
There is a reason the elites are so keen to import a massive permanent underclass. You might not think it is important whether you live in a country where there is a large and healthy middle class, but you should at least ask yourself why the elites care so much about shifting society towards the Brazilian model.

You know what? When my great-grandparents moved over here, they didn't bring a potato famine with them. They also didn't immediately start voting to have the King put them off their lands and imprison them in droves for not having jobs.
Instead they took shitty jobs nobody else wanted to do and created lives for themselves, because even the shitty job was better than what they had going on at home.

That would all sound real familiar, except they didn't have to win a lottery to get through the door legally.

Ender
07-11-2014, 09:03 AM
You know what? When my great-grandparents moved over here, they didn't bring a potato famine with them. They also didn't immediately start voting to have the King put them off their lands and imprison them in droves for not having jobs.
Instead they took shitty jobs nobody else wanted to do and created lives for themselves, because even the shitty job was better than what they had going on at home.

That would all sound real familiar, except they didn't have to win a lottery to get through the door legally.

Well said!

Carlybee
07-11-2014, 09:10 AM
You know what? When my great-grandparents moved over here, they didn't bring a potato famine with them. They also didn't immediately start voting to have the King put them off their lands and imprison them in droves for not having jobs.
Instead they took shitty jobs nobody else wanted to do and created lives for themselves, because even the shitty job was better than what they had going on at home.

That would all sound real familiar, except they didn't have to win a lottery to get through the door legally.


They also didn't immediately sign up for every taxpayer funded entitlement they could get, I'm guessing. Our ancestors contributed to the productivity of the country. Many of the illegals are not just migrant workers, they are criminals, gang members, human traffickers and the like. 60,000 that we know of this year are children, many of whom's parents paid up to $4000 for coyotes to bring them here. It doesn't cost that much to legally immigrate. Instead we are now charged with housing, feeding and transporting them to foster homes as well as paying the legal fees to determine if they can stay. Not to mention they are being housed and bussed around the country with no medical care and having known diseases. You really cannot compare our ancestors experience with this situation. This is forced integration and soon to be forced amnesty. Yes, our immigration system sucks and so does our welfare system but adding fuel to the fire doesn't help. This is a political ploy and ultimately part of a larger plan to implement the NAU and eviscerate the middle class. Our ancestors still had a chance to prosper. This is designed to ensure only those who have already prospered will be the only ones able to do so going forward. Keep slicing the pie.

RonPaulMall
07-11-2014, 09:11 AM
You know what? When my great-grandparents moved over here, they didn't bring a potato famine with them. They also didn't immediately start voting to have the King put them off their lands and imprison them in droves for not having jobs.
Instead they took shitty jobs nobody else wanted to do and created lives for themselves, because even the shitty job was better than what they had going on at home.

That would all sound real familiar, except they didn't have to win a lottery to get through the door legally.

What you fail to grasp is that these immigrants aren't your great grandparents, it isn't a hundred years ago, and we've in fact had a long running experiment in Southern California and Southwest Texas that demonstrates precisely the kind of society mass immigration from South of the Border produces.

Deborah K
07-11-2014, 09:20 AM
You know what? When my great-grandparents moved over here, they didn't bring a potato famine with them. They also didn't immediately start voting to have the King put them off their lands and imprison them in droves for not having jobs.
Instead they took shitty jobs nobody else wanted to do and created lives for themselves, because even the shitty job was better than what they had going on at home.

That would all sound real familiar, except they didn't have to win a lottery to get through the door legally.

You're side-stepping the real issue here. Probably not on purpose because the goal is to create division within the ranks and elsewhere on this issue. Do you know about the SSP (Security and Prosperity Partnership)? If not, start there. Then move on to NAFTA, and the Superhighway, NASCO, the Smartports..... the infrastructure has already been built to accommodate the merge. Now they're shipping in the labor.

acptulsa
07-11-2014, 09:30 AM
They want a North American Union and they want the pesky Constitution gone. They're not lifting a finger against Mexico to stop facilitating this influx and they're making noises about giving non-citizens the vote. As the law stands now, an immigrant has to prove he or she has learned about the Constitution (part of the traditional path to citizenship) before they can vote.

But this doesn't add up?

The war on the Constitution is a war on us.

Deborah K
07-11-2014, 09:31 AM
Here's an interesting article about the fact that the gov't has been advertising to these people for years to come here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2315115/Shocking-US-government-leaflet-tells-Mexican-immigrants-collect-food-stamp-benefits-admitting-theyre-country-illegally.html

AuH20
07-11-2014, 09:36 AM
They want a North American Union and they want the pesky Constitution gone. They're not lifting a finger against Mexico to stop facilitating this influx and they're making noises about giving non-citizens the vote. As the law stands now, an immigrant has to prove he or she has learned about the Constitution (part of the traditional path to citizenship) before they can vote.

But this doesn't add up?

The war on the Constitution is a war on us.

Correct. Plant the seeds of victimization and then harvest the rewards of this program down the line, whether it be electorally or socially. Then they can boldly say that a plurality decided that the Bill of Rights is an anachronism.

AuH20
07-11-2014, 09:39 AM
Among the upper ranks of the elites, there is a modicum of respect afforded to the middle class or bourgeoisie who are aware of their plans. You have to understand that these people look down on every one, since they consider themselves the only ones fit to rule. The rest of nation reacts like dumb, gullible animals when these orchestrated 'problems' fall into their lap.

oyarde
07-11-2014, 09:40 AM
Well , if you look at it correctly , here is where we arrive . 1) The US is a failed welfare nation with too many unemployed. 2) Any person who is a net tax payer is already paying for a large amount of things that should not be pd for with tax dollars , this looks to be another. 3) It is certainly reasonable to consider this a violent act , economically.4) There are cases in history where mass immigration lead to more violence in the future . Now , who considers this positive and why ?

Dr.3D
07-11-2014, 09:47 AM
Well, so far from what I've been reading, it seems like most here are in favor of no or open borders thus a unified North American Union. I can see no other reason people would wish to destroy the sovereignty of the United States by allowing illegal immigration into it.

AuH20
07-11-2014, 09:50 AM
Remember when a member of the Bush Admin was caught redhanded with one of these prototypes?:

http://www.v1r4l.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/amero.jpg

Even Vincente Fox admitted to it:

http://www.wnd.com/2007/10/43932/

Deborah K
07-11-2014, 09:51 AM
Well , if you look at it correctly , here is where we arrive . 1) The US is a failed welfare nation with too many unemployed. 2) Any person who is a net tax payer is already paying for a large amount of things that should not be pd for with tax dollars , this looks to be another. 3) It is certainly reasonable to consider this a violent act , economically.4) There are cases in history where mass immigration lead to more violence in the future . Now , who considers this positive and why ?

Reminds me of this:


http://i57.tinypic.com/i5zl7l.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/zlqk49.jpg

Dr.3D
07-11-2014, 09:52 AM
Remember when a member of the Bush Admin was caught redhanded with one of these prototypes?:

http://www.v1r4l.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/amero.jpg

Even Vincente Fox admitted to it:

http://www.wnd.com/2007/10/43932/
I have a couple of those in plastic cases. From what I could make out, they are just a novelty.

kcchiefs6465
07-11-2014, 10:00 AM
Well, so far from what I've been reading, it seems like most here are in favor of no or open borders thus a unified North American Union. I can see no other reason people would wish to destroy the sovereignty of the United States by allowing illegal immigration into it.
Step up your reading.

And "most" would be far from the truth. Truth is, "most" wish to use the government to extort other people for things that do not belong to them to fund their pet issues. Whether that be border patrol, the police department, the food card program, busing immigrants here or there, etc. You would be included in the "most." Congratulations.

You would be A, Obama and his ilk would be B, and I would be C.

http://i.imgur.com/kW4rsVV.jpg?1

Dr.3D
07-11-2014, 10:02 AM
Step up your reading.

And "most" would be far from the truth. Truth is, "most" wish to use the government to extort other people for things that do not belong to them to fund their pet issues. Whether that be border patrol, the police department, the food card program, busing immigrants here or there, etc. You would be included in the "most." Congratulations.

You would be A, Obama and his ilk would be B, and I would be C.

http://i.imgur.com/kW4rsVV.jpg?1
Oh yeah, anarchists..... I forgot.

kcchiefs6465
07-11-2014, 10:08 AM
Oh yeah, anarchists..... I forgot.
A question for the apparent collectivists: how is the bleeding irony and hypocrisy not obvious?

You say you do not want to fund bus trips for immigrants. Okay. That's fair (I don't either). You often cite your theft as being wrong (and rightly so). Then two seconds later you turn around and advocate for the robbery of another. Even posting pictures of how the [welfare] state begins and ends. Well, one that ignores the law, anyways. What would it take for the cognitive dissonance to disappear? Because clearly this just isn't working.

Dr.3D
07-11-2014, 10:13 AM
Now I get it. It isn't about destroying the sovereignty of the United States, it's about abolishing the country completely.

kcchiefs6465
07-11-2014, 10:16 AM
Now I get it. It isn't about destroying the sovereignty of the United States, it's about abolishing the country completely.
A literal laugh out loud.

Man, you guys are something else.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Quit whining about paying for immigration. The majority spoke.

AuH20
07-11-2014, 10:17 AM
Now I get it. It isn't about destroying the sovereignty of the United States, it's about abolishing the country completely.

When the barbarians finally invaded Rome, she was already internally weakened by her own excesses. These illegals aren't the reason we are in jeopardy, but they will certainly be the final nail in our coffin.

fisharmor
07-11-2014, 10:19 AM
They also didn't immediately sign up for every taxpayer funded entitlement they could get, I'm guessing. Our ancestors contributed to the productivity of the country. Many of the illegals are not just migrant workers, they are criminals, gang members, human traffickers and the like. 60,000 that we know of this year are children, many of whom's parents paid up to $4000 for coyotes to bring them here. It doesn't cost that much to legally immigrate. Instead we are now charged with housing, feeding and transporting them to foster homes as well as paying the legal fees to determine if they can stay. Not to mention they are being housed and bussed around the country with no medical care and having known diseases. You really cannot compare our ancestors experience with this situation. This is forced integration and soon to be forced amnesty. Yes, our immigration system sucks and so does our welfare system but adding fuel to the fire doesn't help. This is a political ploy and ultimately part of a larger plan to implement the NAU and eviscerate the middle class. Our ancestors still had a chance to prosper. This is designed to ensure only those who have already prospered will be the only ones able to do so going forward. Keep slicing the pie.

Source?


What you fail to grasp is that these immigrants aren't your great grandparents, it isn't a hundred years ago, and we've in fact had a long running experiment in Southern California and Southwest Texas that demonstrates precisely the kind of society mass immigration from South of the Border produces.

How do you all so utterly fail to see how racist this idea is?


You're side-stepping the real issue here. Probably not on purpose because the goal is to create division within the ranks and elsewhere on this issue. Do you know about the SSP (Security and Prosperity Partnership)? If not, start there. Then move on to NAFTA, and the Superhighway, NASCO, the Smartports..... the infrastructure has already been built to accommodate the merge. Now they're shipping in the labor.

Why would I bother? I've already correctly identified the source of all those programs and therefore the source of all these problems.
The ring is evil, Frodo. It cannot be used for good.
If you put it on, then



You would be included in the "most."

oyarde
07-11-2014, 10:22 AM
Bottom line to me is , I doubt you can have open borders in a nation of food stamps and welfare .

fisharmor
07-11-2014, 10:24 AM
They want a North American Union and they want the pesky Constitution gone.
What kills me the most is that everyone STILL acts like this isn't a 6-page document and we can't just open it up and read and comprehend.

The constitution doesn't say anything about immigration.
The constitution doesn't say anything about immigration.
The constitution doesn't say anything about immigration.

No matter how many times you want to treat it like an invasion, it doesn't make it so.
'Invasion' means something. It's a word that has a meaning.
When you distort that meaning, you are not one iota better than people who distort the meaning of 'among' in order to grant the federal government total power over all commerce everywhere.

AuH20
07-11-2014, 10:27 AM
Bottom line to me is , I doubt you can have open borders in a nation of food stamps and welfare .

Ask Denmark. They cracked down on this in a major way.

cajuncocoa
07-11-2014, 10:28 AM
How can anyone conceive of this as an act of war?
It's definitely a war on our resources and on our economy.

LibertyEagle
07-11-2014, 10:29 AM
This belongs here:

Do you agree with the reconquista meme?

cajuncocoa
07-11-2014, 10:29 AM
What kills me the most is that everyone STILL acts like this isn't a 6-page document and we can't just open it up and read and comprehend.

The constitution doesn't say anything about immigration.
The constitution doesn't say anything about immigration.
The constitution doesn't say anything about immigration.

No matter how many times you want to treat it like an invasion, it doesn't make it so.
'Invasion' means something. It's a word that has a meaning.
When you distort that meaning, you are not one iota better than people who distort the meaning of 'among' in order to grant the federal government total power over all commerce everywhere.
Nor is there anything in the constitution that says we have to provide food, education, health care, etc. to everyone who crosses our border (or even to those who have lived here all of their lives).

Change that and I might feel differently about this border situation.

fisharmor
07-11-2014, 10:31 AM
Change that and I might feel differently about this border situation.

Can you picture how easy that would be if everyone stopped obsessing over proximate issues like immigration and paid attention to the root problem?

LibertyEagle
07-11-2014, 10:32 AM
Step up your reading.

And "most" would be far from the truth. Truth is, "most" wish to use the government to extort other people for things that do not belong to them to fund their pet issues. Whether that be border patrol, the police department, the food card program, busing immigrants here or there, etc. You would be included in the "most." Congratulations.

You would be A, Obama and his ilk would be B, and I would be C.

http://i.imgur.com/kW4rsVV.jpg?1

And C would be the guy behind Obama kneeling down?

cajuncocoa
07-11-2014, 10:33 AM
Can you picture how easy that would be if everyone stopped obsessing over proximate issues like immigration and paid attention to the root problem?
I'm not sure it would be so easy...even before this happened. So many people have become dependent on welfare and see it as an entitlement. Now there will be more like that. But...whatever it takes to do it, we must. Until and unless we DO correct the root problem we can't just have an open door policy.

Carlybee
07-11-2014, 10:34 AM
What kills me the most is that everyone STILL acts like this isn't a 6-page document and we can't just open it up and read and comprehend.

The constitution doesn't say anything about immigration.
The constitution doesn't say anything about immigration.
The constitution doesn't say anything about immigration.

No matter how many times you want to treat it like an invasion, it doesn't make it so.
'Invasion' means something. It's a word that has a meaning.
When you distort that meaning, you are not one iota better than people who distort the meaning of 'among' in order to grant the federal government total power over all commerce everywhere.

Disagree...it is an invasion just as if it was at gunpoint. If you want to see my sources on anything you can go read my posts in the other immigration threads. I don't feel the need to prove my stance because ultimately it is not going to change anything. In this situation which is extraordinary, open borders without the existence of true freedom only ends in more boots on our necks...whether actual or metaphorical. It's just another tool in the arsenal to enslave what's left of the productive population and annihilate the hope of attaining prosperity.

LibertyEagle
07-11-2014, 10:37 AM
S
How do you all so utterly fail to see how racist this idea is?


Uh no. This is about national sovereignty.

Have you thought about applying to the ADL, or the Southern Poverty Law Center? Because they use the same type of tactic that you are attempting to use.

Ender
07-11-2014, 10:43 AM
And C would be the guy behind Obama kneeling down?

Uhh... the guy behind Obama "kneeling down" is Madison- who is wondering in grief why Obama is stepping all over the Constitution.


Better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought as ignorant than to open it and be known as ignorant.

cajuncocoa
07-11-2014, 10:47 AM
How do you all so utterly fail to see how racist this idea is?

I just noticed this comment when LE quoted it....I wanted to assure you that this has nothing to do with the color of skin for me.

cajuncocoa
07-11-2014, 10:49 AM
http://i.imgur.com/kW4rsVV.jpg?1

I wonder why the artist didn't put Lincoln, Nixon, and both Bushes on Obama's side, applauding?

fisharmor
07-11-2014, 10:51 AM
Disagree...it is an invasion just as if it was at gunpoint.
Then as already asked in this thread, why is there a shortage of people willing to take up arms against it?
The obvious answer is that this isn't true.


If you want to see my sources on anything you can go read my posts in the other immigration threads.
That's not the way this works.


I don't feel the need to prove my stance because ultimately it is not going to change anything. In this situation which is extraordinary, open borders without the existence of true freedom only ends in more boots on our necks...whether actual or metaphorical. It's just another tool in the arsenal to enslave what's left of the productive population and annihilate the hope of attaining prosperity.

We both spend enough time on this board to know what law enforcement in this country is. FFS, we get daily stories illustrating exactly what it is.

Why you would want to invite more of that into the country to solve a problem which you perceive to be caused by socialism but completely ignore the socialism which is causing it.... I just can't comprehend why you would do that.

fisharmor
07-11-2014, 10:52 AM
Uh no. This is about national sovereignty.

Here comes the clue train.
Then explain the previous blatant statement about how it was different when the people moving here were white.

Carlybee
07-11-2014, 10:59 AM
Then as already asked in this thread, why is there a shortage of people willing to take up arms against it?
The obvious answer is that this isn't true.


That's not the way this works.



We both spend enough time on this board to know what law enforcement in this country is. FFS, we get daily stories illustrating exactly what it is.

Why you would want to invite more of that into the country to solve a problem which you perceive to be caused by socialism but completely ignore the socialism which is causing it.... I just can't comprehend why you would do that.



http://rt.com/usa/171028-immigration-militias-obama-conspiracy/. Texas militias are stepping up and I've never said I wanted more law enforcement coming into this country. I want existing border patrol to do their job. DHS will be expanded because of this open border situation...it already is.

erowe1
07-11-2014, 11:01 AM
Now I get it. It isn't about destroying the sovereignty of the United States, it's about abolishing the country completely.

By "country" you mean the federal government. Right?

fisharmor
07-11-2014, 11:16 AM
http://rt.com/usa/171028-immigration-militias-obama-conspiracy/. Texas militias are stepping up and I've never said I wanted more law enforcement coming into this country. I want existing border patrol to do their job. DHS will be expanded because of this open border situation...it already is.

So, ok, then let me ask again.

What makes you think the federal government has the power to patrol the borders?

Are you relying on the constitution's repelling invasion clause?

Let's start there - just tell me the constitutional authority you're appealing to here.

acptulsa
07-11-2014, 11:25 AM
What kills me the most is that everyone STILL acts like this isn't a 6-page document and we can't just open it up and read and comprehend.

The constitution doesn't say anything about immigration.
The constitution doesn't say anything about immigration.
The constitution doesn't say anything about immigration.

No matter how many times you want to treat it like an invasion, it doesn't make it so.
'Invasion' means something. It's a word that has a meaning.
When you distort that meaning, you are not one iota better than people who distort the meaning of 'among' in order to grant the federal government total power over all commerce everywhere.

Why are you aiming that at me?

I never said it does, did I?
I never said it does, did I?
I never said it does, did I?

They want the Constitution gone because to preserve, protect and defend it is to preserve, protect and defend us. And what better way to hasten its demise than to import a bunch of people who never heard of it and encourage them to vote? Is that not an even faster way to secure the federal government total power over all commerce everywhere?

fisharmor
07-11-2014, 11:36 AM
Why are you aiming that at me?

I thought it was obvious: the only way to stop them coming is to ignore the document we're talking about and grant inappropriate power to the federal government.


They want the Constitution gone because to preserve, protect and defend it is to preserve, protect and defend us.
Really? Well then what part of the Constitution is going to dismiss the criminal charges against my wife that resulted from my daughter walking around our block?
Does that mean I get my to-date five thousand dollars in lawyer fees back, because the constitution will protect me?

Or are you really saying this is only happening to us because we refused to preserve, protect, and defend an inanimate piece of paper with sufficient zeal?

pcosmar
07-11-2014, 11:37 AM
Uh no. This is about national sovereignty.


This is about a larger agenda..

And the GOP is pushing it.. Jeb Bush and the CFR are pushing it.. The Dems are going along (there is not difference between them).

The US government has been telling them to come.. It is not an invasion it is an invitation.

They want "Real ID"..(despite being told NO) They want a Biometric Database of all Americans (all people everywhere).
And they will get it eventually.. This is just one more tactic.

They will flood the country till they get what they want.. They have been at it for decades.

Southron
07-11-2014, 12:00 PM
If sanctions are acts of war(I'm not convinced) then I guess this could be too.

Carlybee
07-11-2014, 12:11 PM
So, ok, then let me ask again.

What makes you think the federal government has the power to patrol the borders?

Are you relying on the constitution's repelling invasion clause?

Let's start there - just tell me the constitutional authority you're appealing to here.


“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
Amendment 14, Section 1 – “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”



Congress has the right to regulate immigration. Of course if you don't believe that the Constitution is the rule of law then it would be a moot point to you. Or if you don't believe that Congress is your representation as a member of We the People then again the point would be moot. So no, I don't think the federal government has the right to secure the border, I think they have the responsibility and barring that to at least get out of the way and let the states do it. Instead they are shirking their responsibility in order to create chaos and further empower DHS to expand their role. Unfortunately We the People have allowed Congress, via the Patriot Act to shirk their duties to us. If not for the Patriot Act, DHS would never have existed. Beyond those issues are our corrupt politicians influenced and bought by organizations pushing for a new world order. You play right into their hands by supporting what they are doing whether in deed or in mindset. We are within our rights to protect our borders and what the government is allowing is in direct opposition to the Constitution. I have not asked for increased security, only that existing security be observed. The entire state is not going to hightail it down to the border with AR15s so asking why we aren't personally securing the border is just silly. Allowing this chaotic influx will increase government power not to mention the political implications. That's all I have to say..not going down the never ending argument wormhole again.

pcosmar
07-11-2014, 12:41 PM
Allowing this chaotic influx will increase government power not to mention the political implications.

And that was the reason for it..

The "rumors" in Guatemala did not start by themselves.. They were started deliberately.. and at about the same time as the CFR push for Mandatory Identification started.

It is not an invasion.. it was an invitation.

Deliberate,, Calculated,, Intentional.

It is not about immigration (Legal or Illegal)
It is about forcing Biometric Identification (control) on the people of the US who have repeatedly said No to such.

Dr.3D
07-11-2014, 12:59 PM
By "country" you mean the federal government. Right?
There has to be a little government. There never will be any place that doesn't have some sort of government. If you take away government, the vacuum will pull in a government all by itself. What is a country but an area defined by government?

Ender
07-11-2014, 01:17 PM
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
Amendment 14, Section 1 – “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”



Congress has the right to regulate immigration. Of course if you don't believe that the Constitution is the rule of law then it would be a moot point to you. Or if you don't believe that Congress is your representation as a member of We the People then again the point would be moot. So no, I don't think the federal government has the right to secure the border, I think they have the responsibility and barring that to at least get out of the way and let the states do it. Instead they are shirking their responsibility in order to create chaos and further empower DHS to expand their role. Unfortunately We the People have allowed Congress, via the Patriot Act to shirk their duties to us. If not for the Patriot Act, DHS would never have existed. Beyond those issues are our corrupt politicians influenced and bought by organizations pushing for a new world order. You play right into their hands by supporting what they are doing whether in deed or in mindset. We are within our rights to protect our borders and what the government is allowing is in direct opposition to the Constitution. I have not asked for increased security, only that existing security be observed. The entire state is not going to hightail it down to the border with AR15s so asking why we aren't personally securing the border is just silly. Allowing this chaotic influx will increase government power not to mention the political implications. That's all I have to say..not going down the never ending argument wormhole again.

The Constitution has been a dead document since the War Between the States. Whatever "rights" were supposed to be protected went down your proverbial wormhole then. The Constitution, itself was a coup by the Hamiltonians to establish a powerful central government. Looks like their plan succeeded mightily.

The border is not the problem- the problem is "We, the people" believing the erroneous false history that has been taught ever since schools became part of the government.

Our money problems have nothing to do with illegals but with a fiat dollar.

The gang wars are fed by the WoD, which is a big money maker for TPTB.

The lose of our liberty has to do with general stupidity and not keeping freedom in place for all.

American Exceptionalism has been the JBT since the country came into being.

The Indians were wiped out, the Mexicans driven off their land, blacks AND whites enslaved, the Irish hated and scorned, the Jews not allowed here when Hitler was trying to get rid of them, Africa and the ME being taken over by our superior culture, while Americans are so asleep they think being a slave to the horrible and unnatural American 9-5 Dream is freedom.

The PA, as you mentioned and the WoT are simply in place to secure that slavery- the next is the chip and the REAL ID and being monitored in all things.

BUT- some people really enjoy the blue pill- easier than waking up.

Carlybee
07-11-2014, 01:34 PM
The Constitution has been a dead document since the War Between the States. Whatever "rights" were supposed to be protected went down your proverbial wormhole then. The Constitution, itself was a coup by the Hamiltonians to establish a powerful central government. Looks like their plan succeeded mightily.

The border is not the problem- the problem is "We, the people" believing the erroneous false history that has been taught ever since schools became part of the government.

Our money problems have nothing to do with illegals but with a fiat dollar.

The gang wars are fed by the WoD, which is a big money maker for TPTB.

The lose of our liberty has to do with general stupidity and not keeping freedom in place for all.

American Exceptionalism has been the JBT since the country came into being.

The Indians were wiped out, the Mexicans driven off their land, blacks AND whites enslaved, the Irish hated and scorned, the Jews not allowed here when Hitler was trying to get rid of them, Africa and the ME being taken over by our superior culture, while Americans are so asleep they think being a slave to the horrible and unnatural American 9-5 Dream is freedom.

The PA, as you mentioned and the WoT are simply in place to secure that slavery- the next is the chip and the REAL ID and being monitored in all things.

BUT- some people really enjoy the blue pill- easier than waking up.


Being awake doesn't fix a problem. I can sit on my butt all day and recognize that my alternator is draining my battery but meanwhile I need to jump start the battery to be able to get from point A to point B or all I CAN do is sit on my butt. Please spare me the race baiting and socialist rhetoric.

Carlybee
07-11-2014, 01:59 PM
(NaturalNews) A U.S. Border Patrol agent has gone public with some incredible charges against the Obama administration, accusing it of "aiding, abetting and facilitating the smuggling of illegal aliens across the border."

The agent, Hector Garcia, told CNN in a recent interview that the current chaos of mass illegal immigration taking place along the southwest U.S. border is being "organized" and "orchestrated" by Mexico-based drug cartels. Not only that, but he said the administration is giving the illegal crossers a "free pass" to remain in the country, noting that federal officials are using the equivalent of the honor system in asking the aliens to report later to an immigration hearing, knowing that the majority of them will never do so.

You can see the interview here.

An 'organized, orchestrated' effort

He said "what we are seeing" taking place is "plain and simple, a rampant abuse of our immigration system."

"We have a situation right now where the federal government is pretty much aiding, abetting and facilitating the arrival of these individuals," Garza continued. The aliens "pretty much surrender themselves because they know they are getting a free pass" into the U.S.

Garza said that so many Border Patrol agents and the agency's resources are being diverted to process the illegal arrivals that the crisis is allowing drug cartels uninhibited, undetected access into the U.S. with shipments of illegal drugs and weapons.

As to the crush of humanity arriving on our borders, Garza said it was an "organized, orchestrated" effort by the cartels.

He went on to say that, while some are describing what is happening as a "humanitarian crisis," which it is, more than that it is a "border security crisis."

"We have to make sure that our agents are able to do their jobs," he said. "At this point, about 70 percent of our Border Patrol agents in this area [Laredo, Texas] are being reassigned for processing duties." That leaves just 30 percent of available agents "to actually do field work, to actually patrol our border."

The result is "a very porous border where dangerous criminals and dangerous drugs are entering our country."

Garza also said that, because of the expansive and generous American welfare state, a shrinking number of taxpayers are going to be footing the bill to provide for the illegal immigrant families.

"How do you expect a mother from Honduras that is crossing the country with three to five children, and they're all young-aged children, how do you expect for that mother who comes to this country to actually begin working?" he said.

He continued: "This illegal alien who comes to this country with three to five kids is going to depend on our welfare system, on government assistance. And you know what? That is costing the taxpayer a lot of money."

Immigration rules, impact, expectations have changed throughout U.S. history

Other experts have said that the argument being employed by the president -- that America has always been "a nation of immigrants" -- is both untrue and disingenuous. Immigration laws have varied throughout the history of the country, they note, adding that most Americans today come from many generations of earlier Americans, even if their great-great-ancestors initially immigrated here.

Also, they point to the fact that, early last century, when the U.S. experienced a wave of European immigration, the country did not have a massive welfare state in place. Immigrants then were expected to assimilate and fend for themselves, and, as noted in 2012 by Cybelle Fox of the University of California-Berkeley, most assistance came in the form of limited, regional programs and private charities.

Polls show that most Americans do not support unlimited immigration and prefer border security to amnesty. In June, the Gallup polling firm reported that just 31 percent of Americans approved of Obama's handling of immigration, a new low.

Sources:

http://news360.com

https://www.youtube.com

http://www.gallup.com



Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/045944_Obama_administration_drug_smugglers_human_t raffickers.html#ixzz37BwyZnFh

pcosmar
07-11-2014, 02:38 PM
(NaturalNews) A U.S. Border Patrol agent has gone public with some incredible charges against the Obama administration,

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It ain't Obama.. (he is only following orders)

http://www.cfr.org/immigration/us-immigration-policy/p20030


Overview

"The continued failure to devise and implement a sound and sustainable immigration policy threatens to weaken America's economy, to jeopardize its diplomacy, and to imperil its national security," concludes a new Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) Independent Task Force co-chaired by former Florida governor Jeb Bush and former White House chief of staff Thomas "Mack" McLarty.

Go all the way back to the 80s under Reagan.. Same shit,, different administration.

Amnesty+more Police State..

Same tune,, different band.

Carlybee
07-11-2014, 02:54 PM
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It ain't Obama.. (he is only following orders)

http://www.cfr.org/immigration/us-immigration-policy/p20030



Go all the way back to the 80s under Reagan.. Same shit,, different administration.

Amnesty+more Police State..

Same tune,, different band.

And that amnesty bill is what Obama is trying to bypass Congress and implement on his own.

pcosmar
07-11-2014, 02:59 PM
And that amnesty bill is what Obama is trying to bypass Congress and implement on his own.

Most of the GOP has been pushing amnesty too.

They will slip the Real ID in quietly..
http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2014/01/28/why-proamnesty-republicans-are-so-desperate-to-pass-immigration-reform-this-year-n1785691/page/full


In other words, this whole immigration push that the GOP leadership in the House is embracing is a scam. It doesn't matter what they tell you, what they promise or how good they make it sound; immigration reform this year would be about as legitimate as a letter from a Nigerian prince.

DamianTV
07-11-2014, 03:00 PM
...

Same tune,, different band.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDl9ZMfj6aE

Demigod
07-11-2014, 03:02 PM
Then as already asked in this thread, why is there a shortage of people willing to take up arms against it?
The obvious answer is that this isn't true.


Long term well being breeds contempt .Even in a shooting war you can count that a good part of the population will just put their head in the sand and hope everything will pass them. Every hill is not that important to die for.

fisharmor
07-11-2014, 04:08 PM
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
Amendment 14, Section 1 – “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”



Congress has the right to regulate immigration.
Well thank you for proving my point.
I don't get it... I keep pointing this out and keep getting crickets in return.
What you quoted doesn't get within a mile of "the right to regulate immigration".
Let's leave aside the fact that Congress doesn't have rights and how dangerous it is to reinforce that horrible idea... you know what, let's not, since my whole argument is that constitutionalists have no idea how to form, read, parse, or process English sentences.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
That sentence is a completely separate topic and has nothing at all whatsoever to do with this sentence:
Congress has the right to regulate immigration.
The first is a comment on who is a citizen which says absolutely nothing at all about who is not allowed to be here. The statement also does not mention Congress at all in any fashion whatsoever.
The second says that congress (again, unmentioned in the part you quoted) has a right (not a power, a right) to control ingress into the country.

The two concepts aren't even in the same town with each other. Why do you lot do this? I'm sorry if it seems like I'm picking on you but FFS this is middle school level reading comprehension we're discussing here.


For the record, no, I am not a constitutionalist, and you are the reason why.
I know you're not alone in your belief that that document says things that it clearly doesn't.
As already pointed out by KC, most people believe this, including die-hard socialists.
By failing to parse, understand, and process what the document says, you're voluntarily no better than people who think Obamacare and NFA34 are constitutional.
You claim to be constitutionalist, and you support unconstitutional measures. I cannot in conscience associate with you for that reason.
Everyone else I've met who claims to be a constitutionalist does likewise.
Hence, I am not a constitutionalist.


So no, I don't think the federal government has the right to secure the border, I think they have the responsibility and barring that to at least get out of the way and let the states do it.
Great, so we're fundamentally in agreement here - the federal government has no right to secure the border.
Why then do you continue to argue for it? Do you see how little sense this makes?

Carlybee
07-11-2014, 04:22 PM
Well thank you for proving my point.
I don't get it... I keep pointing this out and keep getting crickets in return.
What you quoted doesn't get within a mile of "the right to regulate immigration".
Let's leave aside the fact that Congress doesn't have rights and how dangerous it is to reinforce that horrible idea... you know what, let's not, since my whole argument is that constitutionalists have no idea how to form, read, parse, or process English sentences.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
That sentence is a completely separate topic and has nothing at all whatsoever to do with this sentence:
Congress has the right to regulate immigration.
The first is a comment on who is a citizen which says absolutely nothing at all about who is not allowed to be here. The statement also does not mention Congress at all in any fashion whatsoever.
The second says that congress (again, unmentioned in the part you quoted) has a right (not a power, a right) to control ingress into the country.

The two concepts aren't even in the same town with each other. Why do you lot do this? I'm sorry if it seems like I'm picking on you but FFS this is middle school level reading comprehension we're discussing here.


For the record, no, I am not a constitutionalist, and you are the reason why.
I know you're not alone in your belief that that document says things that it clearly doesn't.
As already pointed out by KC, most people believe this, including die-hard socialists.
By failing to parse, understand, and process what the document says, you're voluntarily no better than people who think Obamacare and NFA34 are constitutional.
You claim to be constitutionalist, and you support unconstitutional measures. I cannot in conscience associate with you for that reason.
Everyone else I've met who claims to be a constitutionalist does likewise.
Hence, I am not a constitutionalist.


Great, so we're fundamentally in agreement here - the federal government has no right to secure the border.
Why then do you continue to argue for it? Do you see how little sense this makes?

Don't associate with me then. If your criteria disallows for dissenting viewpoints then sounds like you have more issues than I care to know about. No I do not support Obamacare nor have I called for further federal policing of borders other than asking the border patrol that has been there to do their job or allow the states to.
Since you don't even believe in the Constitution the rest of your points are moot. Ron Paul believes the Constitution allows for securing the border....are you going to disassociate from the forum LOL. Good grief.

Tywysog Cymru
07-11-2014, 04:36 PM
Oh yes, in a big way.

If it was, Obomber would be invading and droning.

Carson
07-11-2014, 05:10 PM
Didn't someone here high up just meet with these guys?

Feeding the Abscess
07-11-2014, 05:13 PM
Well, so far from what I've been reading, it seems like most here are in favor of no or open borders thus a unified North American Union.

People in favor of no borders would support a border if it were part of some huge mega-State? Interesting logic. I've heard a lot of explanations for support of the NAU before, but I've never heard that.


I can see no other reason people would wish to destroy the sovereignty of the United States by allowing illegal immigration into it.

There are literally dozens of pro-freedom reasons to oppose immigration controls. Especially in the context of the current state of the US government.

HOLLYWOOD
07-11-2014, 05:54 PM
Subversion and Demoralization timed perfectly with foreign operations to incite invasion of "Amnesty"... works every time.

http://www.noisyroom.net/blog/amnesty013113.jpg

DamianTV
07-11-2014, 06:09 PM
How better to divide a nation against itself?

HOLLYWOOD
07-11-2014, 06:46 PM
How better to divide a nation against itself?Check this lite snack out...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muw22wTePqQ#t=326

phill4paul
07-11-2014, 06:59 PM
These conspiracy theory posts need to be moved to hot topic. What if someone of Mexican descent were to read these forums? These kind of extremist posts put the liberty movement in a bad light and may drive some new members away!

Anti Federalist
07-11-2014, 07:12 PM
This is about a larger agenda..

And the GOP is pushing it.. Jeb Bush and the CFR are pushing it.. The Dems are going along (there is not difference between them).

The US government has been telling them to come.. It is not an invasion it is an invitation.

They want "Real ID"..(despite being told NO) They want a Biometric Database of all Americans (all people everywhere).

And they will get it eventually.. This is just one more tactic.

They will flood the country till they get what they want.. They have been at it for decades.

http://www.boredwrestlingfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/4883191+_3986780f434f11a5ea0dc94a555b705c.jpg

Anti Federalist
07-11-2014, 07:16 PM
Blowback.

Because we all know how well unfettered immigration worked out for the indigenous North Americans.

pcosmar
07-11-2014, 07:25 PM
How better to divide a nation against itself?

Race,, religion,, political party,, sports team

There is nothing new under the sun.

http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/~irish.gif

http://chronicle.com/blognetwork/edgeofthewest/files/2010/02/26/chinesetacoma-jpg.jpeg

http://americanaejournal.hu/images/58t.jpg

Nothing new,,

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/60767_f496.jpg


They will do everything they can to have us fight anything but the real threat,,, The Government.

kcchiefs6465
07-11-2014, 07:40 PM
http://i.imgur.com/kW4rsVV.jpg?1

I wonder why the artist didn't put Lincoln, Nixon, and both Bushes on Obama's side, applauding?
Nixon is staring ahead, admiring the "work."

Reagan is who is not applauding it but realistically could be, or in some regards, would be (if that wasn't a case of mistaken identity, ignore that point). It took me a while to find daddy Bush. Perhaps his expression is the artist's attempt to convey that he was on the ropes? (a position I disagree with and could defend) He portrays George W. Bush as an ADD afflicted chimp who begs the question of what should or should not be, that is, should he follow in the steps of the framers, or do what he wishes (note the hands). Again I think this is his attempt to convey disgust with a certain brand of republicanism. More specifically, neoconservatism. Abraham Lincoln is there because as is quite evident of the artist, he admires republicans (or would be defamed a neo-confederate else wise :rolleyes:). But of course art is in the eye of the viewer.

My point of posting it was as a means to convey that not only do they trample on the Constitution (which anyone paying attention would admit) but they also bicker about what amounts to nothing more than how to spend money that does not belong to them (notice the dollars strewn about; squandered). There is also that point of the poor who is affected to a great degree. The representation being the title, "The Forgotten Man." Tattered clothes, park benches... I know them well. As they do what, "lose" 20 billion dollars? Study waterfowl genitalia? Add an addition to their palaces?

People would be wise to consider the political engineering aspect of creating and propagandizing problems for an agency's justification. When the problem subsides, it isn't as if said agencies simply go away. And trust and believe, the inclination to take every penny they can and prevent the free movement of Men, establishing precedents and normalcy has much more to do with the fence and their other endeavors than immigration ever could.

kcchiefs6465
07-11-2014, 07:46 PM
Blowback.

Because we all know how well unfettered immigration worked out for the indigenous North Americans.
It would be honest to include the disparity of arms within that comparison. At the least, as a footnote.

kcchiefs6465
07-11-2014, 07:49 PM
Subversion and Demoralization timed perfectly with foreign operations to incite invasion of "Amnesty"... works every time.

http://www.noisyroom.net/blog/amnesty013113.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q65KZIqay4E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpoudLoc8sY

Cutlerzzz
07-11-2014, 08:03 PM
They want a North American Union and they want the pesky Constitution gone. They're not lifting a finger against Mexico to stop facilitating this influx and they're making noises about giving non-citizens the vote. As the law stands now, an immigrant has to prove he or she has learned about the Constitution (part of the traditional path to citizenship) before they can vote.

But this doesn't add up?

The war on the Constitution is a war on us.

The constitution is a war on the individual.

Carlybee
07-11-2014, 08:07 PM
These conspiracy theory posts need to be moved to hot topic. What if someone of Mexican descent were to read these forums? These kind of extremist posts put the liberty movement in a bad light and may drive some new members away!


Eduardo is that you?

Ender
07-11-2014, 09:55 PM
Being awake doesn't fix a problem. I can sit on my butt all day and recognize that my alternator is draining my battery but meanwhile I need to jump start the battery to be able to get from point A to point B or all I CAN do is sit on my butt. Please spare me the race baiting and socialist rhetoric.

If you're awake, you don't sit on your butt.

And there is no way in hell that I am race-baiting or a socialist. History is what it is- read a little.

Carlybee
07-11-2014, 10:19 PM
If you're awake, you don't sit on your butt.

And there is no way in hell that I am race-baiting or a socialist. History is what it is- read a little.

If you are so awake just what the hell are you doing besides sitting on the internet pounding your chest and trying to prove how awake you are or trying to make other people look less enlightened than you. I'm well aware of what history has wrought and unfortunately well aware of what the future will most likely bring. When you show me just how you and your oh so awakened self has made a pissants worth of difference in the world let me know. You don't get to determine what my viewpoint is so keep your authoritarian..read a little comments to yourself. No one on this forum is unaware of the reasons we are so screwed but there are very few with any immediate and cogent solutions that will solve anything within the time frame they need to be solved.

oyarde
07-11-2014, 11:45 PM
I see none of my points or questions have been answered. Can you have open borders in a food stamp , welfare and underemployed nation ? Do you support this ? Why ?

kcchiefs6465
07-12-2014, 07:05 AM
I see none of my points or questions have been answered. Can you have open borders in a food stamp , welfare and underemployed nation ? Do you support this ? Why ?
I have written pages on this in another thread only a couple days ago.

It is why I have not typed pages in this one.

In short, the sort of argument that you cannot have open borders with a welfare state could be used, (and is), to justify anything.

"In theory I'd support a market of labor, but we can't have a market in labor until the Fed quits destroying the dollar."

No, you push for a market in labor and hopefully if accomplished, people become outraged enough that the federal reserve is even there and take measures to correct the problems. The same would be said of welfare. One, more people would not like paying for welfare and thus this collectivist fantasy would be all the more likely to slow down, and two, using a "tied at the hip" argument (that one thing must happen for another to) is largely how we got into this situation.

I don't support people being taken from regardless of what it is for.

pcosmar
07-12-2014, 07:09 AM
I see none of my points or questions have been answered. Can you have open borders in a food stamp , welfare and underemployed nation ? Do you support this ? Why ?

I oppose the welfare.. I could give a shit about immigration.
Without welfare less would be coming.. and they would not be a problem at all.

pcosmar
07-12-2014, 07:12 AM
No one on this forum is unaware of the reasons we are so screwed but there are very few with any immediate and cogent solutions that will solve anything within the time frame they need to be solved.

We are not allowed to discuss the solution.

tod evans
07-12-2014, 07:18 AM
We are not allowed to discuss the solution.

It certainly isn't wise to discuss it using 1's-n-0's anyway....

Carlybee
07-12-2014, 09:11 AM
I see none of my points or questions have been answered. Can you have open borders in a food stamp , welfare and underemployed nation ? Do you support this ? Why ?

No, you can't.

Yes, less would come although some would still come for work. The ones capable of making a living without welfare, like skilled trades. Most who come here can't survive without assistance though and they are instructed before they get here how to play the system. What I would like to hear is how would stopping the war on drugs put an immediate stop to drug traffickers. I highly highly doubt we will see an end to it anytime in the foreseeable future so when someone lists that as a solution its just like when they say End the Fed....even Ron Paul no longer says that..he says Audit the Fed because they know there isnt a snowballs chance in hell of that ever happening anytime soon. By the time all these "solutions" take place, the 12 million illegal immigrants multiplies by how much given the current border situation? And yes every single president and both big parties are complicit in every and all actions taken that have contributed to this. How long can the working class in America keep getting chipped away at both by excessive taxation and by job loss before we all have to become dependent on government just in order to eat? So these ideological arguments while accurate as cause, do not address proactive immediate solutions. The Minutemen movement is trying to resurrect so there will be militia on the border but they have stated they will defer to border patrol. BTW, you know it's bad when even border patrol agents are becoming whistleblowers and fearing for their jobs over it. I suspect some people either do not understand the seriousness of the problem and the future consequences because it's not immediately affecting them or they have blinders on. We have been dealing with it for a long time here in Texas and here in Houston specifically but it has escalated in the last few years since the cartels now have a stranglehold on the border. So the problem is twofold....the cartels and the federal government. Congress seems to either be clueless or complicit. The only reason any of them are making noise about it now is because the People started getting vocal about it. Otherwise they were perfectly happy to do nothing. The central American children pouring through the border has been going on for months. And contrary to popular belief they are not all just children. Many of them are MS-13 gang member teenagers some who have admitted to murder. They too will be released into the populace as if we don't have enough. We have approx. 100,000 gang members in Texas alone. They are not going to become productive members of society, they are already criminals. Of course if you are an anarchist crime means nothing. Just like borders mean nothing. Consequences mean nothing and apparently becoming a soylent green cracker is no big deal either. So how do we enforce existing laws without creating new ones, how do we protect the border without proliferating additional federal "help" and growing the police state, how do we parse the difference between useful and productive immigration vs negative and harmful illegal immigration, how do we fix the current immigration process to be fair to immigrants and citizens alike? These are the questions I have that are not answered with theory or actions that may never take place in my lifetime and people on this forum seem to be able to tell us why these things are happening but no answers as to how to fix them in any sort of timely manner that would solve anything before it's way too late to do anything about it. I still contend that allowing it to happen just makes for excuses to continue to expand the police state....ie, well we have all these people now, so we need to buy more tanks for our SWAT teams....whats happening in Alburquerque with the police there is going to eventually look like a walk in the park. It's already bad here too. DHS working in tandem with police forces and providing money and equipment. Anyone who can't see that opening the borders, providing incentive is feeding the monster, is just not looking hard enough. This all seems very gradual but that's how it happens. I am sad for the youth in this country because they are screwed. What really irks me though are the people who don't even care. We either have sovereignty as a nation or we die on our knees. It's pretty simple and we don't have years to let a political ideology play out while we wait for those in power to "get it" or "come around". Sorry for the long response but there is no simple one.

fisharmor
07-12-2014, 10:11 PM
There are 6.3 million people currently living on the island of Ireland.

There are over 100 million people of Irish descent worldwide.
41 million of those are in the US.

That's just one little island, folks. The "invasion" you're bitching about is peanuts compared to what America has already gone through.

The other interesting point here is that Mexicans and Peruvians have less in common with each other than Irish and English do, and if you mistook an Irishman for an Englishman you'd probably get socked in the jaw.

But given how little of what I write on this topic is actually comprehended by those not in agreement with me, I can't reasonably expect immigration scaremongers to recognize that people who live 2000 miles away from each other and barely understand each others' dialects aren't the exact same thing.

DamianTV
07-13-2014, 02:13 AM
The Irish and English that came to the US didnt come here with the sole intent of collecting Welfare. They came here to be able to provide for themselves unopposed and unoppressed. The influx of immigration from South America in general seems to be nearly the polar opposite, expecting welfare and Govt handouts and very little intent of self integration.

Slightly off topic...

This is not all Mexicans that are crossing the border as many are going through Mexico to get to the US. Is anyone suprised Mexico is doing exactly jack shit about the immigrants cutting through their country? And why arent they invading Canada? Why is the US such a target? Why arent we invaded by Canadian Immigrants, legal or otherwise?

RafaelM
07-13-2014, 07:12 AM
Is the article deliberately misleading or just poorly informed?

The regional visitor's card has been available for Beliceans and Guatemalan Citizens and Residents for years, it became free (it used to cost 295 pesos) in January of 2014, but is only valid in the four states bordering Guatemala and Belize (Chiapas, Tabasco, Campeche, and Quintana Roo). After crossing the Isthmus of Tehuantepec you still need a passport and a visa to be in Mexico. The citizens of Belize and Guatemala also have option of applying for a second card called Frontier Worker card which is only valid on those four states previously mentioned for up to one year but enables does using it to take their families with them to where they are working for the duration of the permit.

Mexico is planning to extend the duration of card from 3 consecutive days to 10 consecutive days but is also planning to turn the Isthmus of Tehuantepec in a choke point to stop immigrants, as part of the "Southern Border Plan" or "Plan Frontera Sur" which is how the project is actually called in Media in Spanish.

The plan was already criticized in Mexico by an NGO which argues that it serves USA's interests and does very little for the actual immigrants.

TheCount
07-13-2014, 09:02 AM
Is the article deliberately misleading or just poorly informed? Both. This controversy was hastily manufactured after the Benghazi story fell out of the news cycle earlier than the Republican party expected. It's supposed to carry us through to the election, but I have my doubts. It will be replaced by something else shortly.

fisharmor
07-13-2014, 07:51 PM
The Irish and English that came to the US didnt come here with the sole intent of collecting Welfare. They came here to be able to provide for themselves unopposed and unoppressed. The influx of immigration from South America in general seems to be nearly the polar opposite, expecting welfare and Govt handouts and very little intent of self integration.

This gets thrown around on this site literally ad nauseum. It literally makes me sick how often this gratuitous assertion shows up.

Have there been studies on this? Where? What methodologies were used? Were they nationwide studies or did someone ask every aboriginal looking person in the welfare line where they were from?
Or is this just a line?

Let me clue everyone in on something. You know that 2-party false dichotomy we all identified quite some time ago? Where you're given the illusion of choice, but they all lead to the same thing?
Well for people who aren't here legally, those choices are quite different.
One side spends quite a bit of time talking about how illegals don't belong here and how they should be rounded up and shipped out.
The other side spends quite a bit of time talking about how they want to give them free stuff.

How is it so difficult to see that that's not even a choice for them?
Option A is to vote to kick yourself out of the country,
option B is to get some modicum of legal protection and welfare.

Now, remember everyone, voting in this country is almost never a matter of voting FOR something - it's almost always a matter of voting AGAINST something.

So if you were here illegally, would you be voting FOR option B, or AGAINST option A?

Of course, I'm still thinking about this as if these are human beings who are basically the same as all other human beings... it keeps getting brought up in this thread that they somehow aren't the same as other humans, and I keep asking how that's not racist, and I keep not getting an answer.

AuH20
07-13-2014, 07:59 PM
The Irish and English that came to the US didnt come here with the sole intent of collecting Welfare. They came here to be able to provide for themselves unopposed and unoppressed. The influx of immigration from South America in general seems to be nearly the polar opposite, expecting welfare and Govt handouts and very little intent of self integration.

Slightly off topic...

This is not all Mexicans that are crossing the border as many are going through Mexico to get to the US. Is anyone suprised Mexico is doing exactly jack shit about the immigrants cutting through their country? And why arent they invading Canada? Why is the US such a target? Why arent we invaded by Canadian Immigrants, legal or otherwise?

The conditions were completely different back then. If you didn't work or weren't assisted by Catholic charities you starved to death. Those who could not cut it, took the long Transatlantic passage back to their native country. There weren't multilingual aids, food stamps or 24 hour emergency room service. These hardships were the natural filters that truly separated the wheat from the chaff.

Carlybee
07-13-2014, 09:10 PM
This gets thrown around on this site literally ad nauseum. It literally makes me sick how often this gratuitous assertion shows up.

Have there been studies on this? Where? What methodologies were used? Were they nationwide studies or did someone ask every aboriginal looking person in the welfare line where they were from?
Or is this just a line?

Let me clue everyone in on something. You know that 2-party false dichotomy we all identified quite some time ago? Where you're given the illusion of choice, but they all lead to the same thing?
Well for people who aren't here legally, those choices are quite different.
One side spends quite a bit of time talking about how illegals don't belong here and how they should be rounded up and shipped out.
The other side spends quite a bit of time talking about how they want to give them free stuff.

How is it so difficult to see that that's not even a choice for them?
Option A is to vote to kick yourself out of the country,
option B is to get some modicum of legal protection and welfare.

Now, remember everyone, voting in this country is almost never a matter of voting FOR something - it's almost always a matter of voting AGAINST something.

So if you were here illegally, would you be voting FOR option B, or AGAINST option A?

Of course, I'm still thinking about this as if these are human beings who are basically the same as all other human beings... it keeps getting brought up in this thread that they somehow aren't the same as other humans, and I keep asking how that's not racist, and I keep not getting an answer.


It has nothing to do with race. I would feel the same way if the Swedes decided to flood into our country because they were told they wouldn't be stopped and the American taxpayer would support them. There are Latinos who have immigrated here legally who don't appreciate this incursion either. We are being forced to support people who haven't contributed a dime to this country. Now we have to pay to transport them and pay their legal fees. Seriously you are going to play the race card? You sound like a butthurt progressive.

AuH20
07-13-2014, 09:13 PM
It has nothing to do with race. I would feel the same way if the Swedes decided to flood into our country because they were told they wouldn't be stopped and the American taxpayer would support them. There are Latinos who have immigrated here legally who don't appreciate this incursion either. We are being forced to support people who haven't contributed a dime to this country. Now we have to pay to transport them and pay their legal fees. Seriously you are going to play the race card? You sound like a butthurt progressive.

I'm part Croatian. I'd be freaking out right now if half of Croatia tried emigrating here. When talking about large bloc from a foreign locale moving themselves elsewhere, they simply don't belong. It's that simple. France for the French. America for the Americas. Africa for the Africans.

Ender
07-13-2014, 09:21 PM
It has nothing to do with race. I would feel the same way if the Swedes decided to flood into our country because they were told they wouldn't be stopped and the American taxpayer would support them. There are Latinos who have immigrated here legally who don't appreciate this incursion either. We are being forced to support people who haven't contributed a dime to this country. Now we have to pay to transport them and pay their legal fees. Seriously you are going to play the race card? You sound like a butthurt progressive.

Race card? Where is he talking race? YOU are the one that always brings the race card in and then accuse others. I've been dealt the race card from you a couple of times when I have simply been speaking of the history of immigration in the US.

fisharmor
07-13-2014, 09:21 PM
It has nothing to do with race. I would feel the same way if the Swedes decided to flood into our country because they were told they wouldn't be stopped and the American taxpayer would support them. There are Latinos who have immigrated here legally who don't appreciate this incursion either. We are being forced to support people who haven't contributed a dime to this country.

And again, this is just weapons grade horseshit.

Illegals are absolutely paying their taxes. They're well aware the easiest way to get in trouble with the state in this country is not to pay taxes. And believe it or not, they're smart enough to know that since they're here illegally, they shouldn't go out of their way to get in trouble with the state.
If anything they're keeping these Ponzi schemes afloat because attempting to use them will draw attention to themselves.
And since you're all so in love with the welfare state that you're willing to keep it if it means you get to kick a bunch of people out, you really ought to be thanking them.


Seriously you are going to play the race card? You sound like a butthurt progressive.
Look I've hinted enough at this but I'll just say it outright. You have serious reading comprehension problems.
It was a nice game but it's really not any fun to discuss this with you, because so far you've been incapable of keeping up with this conversation.
I'm getting embarrassed for you at this point.

fisharmor
07-13-2014, 09:22 PM
I'm part Croatian. I'd be freaking out right now if half of Croatia tried emigrating here. When talking about large bloc from a foreign locale moving themselves elsewhere, they simply don't belong. It's that simple. France for the French. America for the Americas. Africa for the Africans.

Um....... Wow.
You're just gonna.... let it out..... well, Ok, I have no response for that which is not a violation of the terms of use here.

AuH20
07-13-2014, 09:25 PM
Um....... Wow.
You're just gonna.... let it out..... well, Ok, I have no response for that which is not a violation of the terms of use here.

Such is the natural order of things. You won't see me treading on someone else's homeland.

Ender
07-13-2014, 09:28 PM
Such is the natural order of things. You won't see me treading on someone else's homeland.

So, then....

Which French, Americans, and Africans do you mean?

You talkin' the original people in those lands, the migrants that moved across the earth, or the conquerers?

fisharmor
07-13-2014, 09:28 PM
Such is the natural order of things. You won't see me treading on someone else's homeland.

Really? What tribe are you?

AuH20
07-13-2014, 09:35 PM
So, then....

Which French, Americans, and Africans do you mean?

You talkin' the original people in those lands, the migrants that moved across the earth, or the conquerers?

The current occupants of the land. The ones who occupied it for the last two centuries or so. Imagine relocating 5 to 10 million American whites in India? They wouldn't belong, both culturally and historically speaking. I don't know why it's so outlandish to state the obvious in regard to historical homelands. I have no desire to trespass on any sovereign lands, even with my government growing despotic with each passing day. I will likely die here.

Carlybee
07-13-2014, 09:44 PM
Race card? Where is he talking race? YOU are the one that always brings the race card in and then accuse others. I've been dealt the race card from you a couple of times when I have simply been speaking of the history of immigration in the US.

You are the one who sad you kept asking how that's not racist. And please tell me how I have ever played the race card? You can't so you are just grasping.

Carlybee
07-13-2014, 09:48 PM
And again, this is just weapons grade horseshit.

Illegals are absolutely paying their taxes. They're well aware the easiest way to get in trouble with the state in this country is not to pay taxes. And believe it or not, they're smart enough to know that since they're here illegally, they shouldn't go out of their way to get in trouble with the state.
If anything they're keeping these Ponzi schemes afloat because attempting to use them will draw attention to themselves.
And since you're all so in love with the welfare state that you're willing to keep it if it means you get to kick a bunch of people out, you really ought to be thanking them.


Look I've hinted enough at this but I'll just say it outright. You have serious reading comprehension problems.
It was a nice game but it's really not any fun to discuss this with you, because so far you've been incapable of keeping up with this conversation.
I'm getting embarrassed for you at this point.


The only taxes most illegals pay if they pay any at all is FICA and Medicare and that is when they are actually on a payroll. Most of them claim so many exemptions they are in a zero withholding bracket. Then they file the earned income credit and get a refund on something they never paid in. And there is absolutely nowhere I have ever said I support the welfare state nor have I supported kicking people out, but I have supported stopping them from coming in illegally so perhaps you should check your own reading comprehension skills. Oh and most of those illegals drawing a paycheck are doing so with falsified documents. If they have a legitimate green card then they are here legally...otherwise they have committed identity theft.

Carlybee
07-13-2014, 09:53 PM
I'm part Croatian. I'd be freaking out right now if half of Croatia tried emigrating here. When talking about large bloc from a foreign locale moving themselves elsewhere, they simply don't belong. It's that simple. France for the French. America for the Americas. Africa for the Africans.

Well I have to part ways with you there as I do believe in legal immigration. At least those who immigrate legally have a stake in being here although the immigration process is retarded since it's all under Homeland Security now. When someone immigrates here legally they are not allowed to apply for entitlements. I had to sign an affidavit stating I could support my husband if need be when he immigrated from Canada.

My sons ex girlfriend who spent 10 years here and got a doctorate was deported back to Belgium because her job didn't line up with her degree and they revoked her visa. That's an example of how retarded the system is. Yet illegals can come and go as they please apparently.

amy31416
07-13-2014, 10:20 PM
The current occupants of the land. The ones who occupied it for the last two centuries or so. Imagine relocating 5 to 10 million American whites in India? They wouldn't belong, both culturally and historically speaking. I don't know why it's so outlandish to state the obvious in regard to historical homelands. I have no desire to trespass on any sovereign lands, even with my government growing despotic with each passing day. I will likely die here.

I could be wrong, but haven't you expressed support for European Jews taking over Palestine?

Snew
07-13-2014, 10:26 PM
When talking about large bloc from a foreign locale moving themselves elsewhere, they simply don't belong. It's that simple. France for the French. America for the Americas. Africa for the Africans.

Human movement is the natural order of things.

We all came out of Africa and the Middle East, originally.

AuH20
07-13-2014, 10:28 PM
I could be wrong, but haven't you expressed support for European Jews taking over Palestine?

I have stated that neither should have rightful ownership of the land. They are both illegitimate in my eyes.

AuH20
07-13-2014, 10:35 PM
Human movement is the natural order of things.

We all came out of Africa and the Middle East, originally.

I disagree. Why do Asians have the epicanthic fold (believed to defend against snow glare)? Why do blacks have more melanin in their skin (wouldn't that be more beneficial against UV exposure in sub sahara Africa?)? Why did blacks not establish domains in the northern regions of the globe? I think we know the answer. Certain peoples developed genetic advantages to cope with their environments over time.

amy31416
07-13-2014, 10:42 PM
I have stated that neither should have rightful ownership of the land. They are both illegitimate in my eyes.

So the Semitic families and others who've lived there for hundreds/thousands of years have no rightful ownership of the land? Isn't that in direct contradiction with what you just wrote?

Of course it is.

AuH20
07-13-2014, 10:44 PM
So the Semitic families and others who've lived there for hundreds/thousands of years have no rightful ownership of the land? Isn't that in direct contradiction with what you just wrote?

Of course it is.

Who are we talking about? It's not as simple as you outlined. Ashkenazi? Sephardic? the jews alleged to live in Ethopia? There are many groups who call themselves the rightful heirs to Israel and even that is up for debate.

Ender
07-13-2014, 10:48 PM
You are the one who sad you kept asking how that's not racist. And please tell me how I have ever played the race card? You can't so you are just grasping.


Originally Posted by Ender
The Constitution has been a dead document since the War Between the States. Whatever "rights" were supposed to be protected went down your proverbial wormhole then. The Constitution, itself was a coup by the Hamiltonians to establish a powerful central government. Looks like their plan succeeded mightily.

The border is not the problem- the problem is "We, the people" believing the erroneous false history that has been taught ever since schools became part of the government.

Our money problems have nothing to do with illegals but with a fiat dollar.

The gang wars are fed by the WoD, which is a big money maker for TPTB.

The lose of our liberty has to do with general stupidity and not keeping freedom in place for all.

American Exceptionalism has been the JBT since the country came into being.

The Indians were wiped out, the Mexicans driven off their land, blacks AND whites enslaved, the Irish hated and scorned, the Jews not allowed here when Hitler was trying to get rid of them, Africa and the ME being taken over by our superior culture, while Americans are so asleep they think being a slave to the horrible and unnatural American 9-5 Dream is freedom.

The PA, as you mentioned and the WoT are simply in place to secure that slavery- the next is the chip and the REAL ID and being monitored in all things.

BUT- some people really enjoy the blue pill- easier than waking up.


Carlybee: Being awake doesn't fix a problem. I can sit on my butt all day and recognize that my alternator is draining my battery but meanwhile I need to jump start the battery to be able to get from point A to point B or all I CAN do is sit on my butt. Please spare me the race baiting and socialist rhetoric

Here you are, turning what I said into "race baiting and social rhetoric".

Carlybee
07-13-2014, 11:14 PM
Here you are, turning what I said into "race baiting and social rhetoric".


That's how I see it. You keep trying to compare what happened in the country's beginnings to what is happening now. Being against this illegal surge is not because people want to destroy a certain group of people. It has nothing to do with that at all, so when you bring up continually what happened to the Indians and what happened to the Irish it does sound like race baiting to me. You and Fisharmor are very condescending as well, as if you two are the only ones on this board aware of how the Indians and the Irish were treated here. No one is disputing it and no one is trying to repeat history. It is literally apples and oranges.

Ender
07-14-2014, 12:48 AM
That's how I see it. You keep trying to compare what happened in the country's beginnings to what is happening now. Being against this illegal surge is not because people want to destroy a certain group of people. It has nothing to do with that at all, so when you bring up continually what happened to the Indians and what happened to the Irish it does sound like race baiting to me. You and Fisharmor are very condescending as well, as if you two are the only ones on this board aware of how the Indians and the Irish were treated here. No one is disputing it and no one is trying to repeat history. It is literally apples and oranges.

I think you are pretty condescending. Nothing fisharmor and I have said started as condescending. But after pages and pages of being called race baiters and blah blah blah, with NOTHING we say being addressed, it gets a little old.

This immigration thing is not apples and oranges; it is a symptom of much much bigger problems and loss of freedoms that have come and are coming. Going on and on and on about illegals w/o EVER acknowledging what the base problems really are is crazy-making. This kind of thinking is why we have such a loss of liberty now. Many people screaming bout their pet peeves and never acknowledging why those problems are there.

If someone dares to bring up the real issues, then it's " Well, put together a plan! Where's your plan! How are YOU going to take care of this!", all the while complaining about all your taxes going to illegals with seemingly no understanding that most, if not all, of today's taxes are UNCONSTITUTIONAL. OR seemingly no understanding of what is really going on in Central and South America, what the WoD and WoT is about, and what kind of world we really live in.

Asking for TPTB to enforce government control should be the very last thing any liberty lover would expouse. I would suggest reading "I Was an Economic Hit Man" by John Perkins; it's a real eye-opener and a good place to start to understand what is really going on and that the problem is NOT illegals- it is hegemony.

And I am saying this all forthright and honest- not with any condescension in my heart.

CPUd
07-14-2014, 12:58 AM
I'm part Croatian. I'd be freaking out right now if half of Croatia tried emigrating here. When talking about large bloc from a foreign locale moving themselves elsewhere, they simply don't belong. It's that simple. France for the French. America for the Americas. Africa for the Africans.

You are saying Guatemalans and Mexicans aren't Americans?

LibertyEagle
07-14-2014, 01:24 AM
I think you are pretty condescending. Nothing fisharmor and I have said started as condescending. But after pages and pages of being called race baiters and blah blah blah, with NOTHING we say being addressed, it gets a little old.

This immigration thing is not apples and oranges; it is a symptom of much much bigger problems and loss of freedoms that have come and are coming. Going on and on and on about illegals w/o EVER acknowledging what the base problems really are is crazy-making. This kind of thinking is why we have such a loss of liberty now. Many people screaming bout their pet peeves and never acknowledging why those problems are there.

If someone dares to bring up the real issues, then it's " Well, put together a plan! Where's your plan! How are YOU going to take care of this!", all the while complaining about all your taxes going to illegals with seemingly no understanding that most, if not all, of today's taxes are UNCONSTITUTIONAL. OR seemingly no understanding of what is really going on in Central and South America, what the WoD and WoT is about, and what kind of world we really live in.

Asking for TPTB to enforce government control should be the very last thing any liberty lover would expouse. I would suggest reading "I Was an Economic Hit Man" by John Perkins; it's a real eye-opener and a good place to start to understand what is really going on and that the problem is NOT illegals- it is hegemony.

And I am saying this all forthright and honest- not with any condescension in my heart.

If your house is on fire, are you going to analyze your naval, or put the fire out first?

A, we have a welfare state. B, our government has nearly bankrupted our country. C, illegal aliens will further drain what little treasure we have left.

Ender
07-14-2014, 01:44 AM
If your house is on fire, are you going to analyze your naval, or put the fire out first?

A, we have a welfare state. B, our government has nearly bankrupted our country. C, illegal aliens will further drain what little treasure we have left.

The first thing you do in a fire is:

1. Turn off all power to the fire, usually done by turning off the main power. This step alone is usually enough to stop most fires in the initial stages.

REPEAT: TURN OFF THE MAIN POWER FIRST.

Never waste your time running around putting the little side fires out or your house will be gone before you know it.

Maybe you should get your head outta where the sun don't shine, so you can actually understand where the fire has initiated from.

Carlybee
07-14-2014, 03:04 AM
I think you are pretty condescending. Nothing fisharmor and I have said started as condescending. But after pages and pages of being called race baiters and blah blah blah, with NOTHING we say being addressed, it gets a little old.

This immigration thing is not apples and oranges; it is a symptom of much much bigger problems and loss of freedoms that have come and are coming. Going on and on and on about illegals w/o EVER acknowledging what the base problems really are is crazy-making. This kind of thinking is why we have such a loss of liberty now. Many people screaming bout their pet peeves and never acknowledging why those problems are there.

If someone dares to bring up the real issues, then it's " Well, put together a plan! Where's your plan! How are YOU going to take care of this!", all the while complaining about all your taxes going to illegals with seemingly no understanding that most, if not all, of today's taxes are UNCONSTITUTIONAL. OR seemingly no understanding of what is really going on in Central and South America, what the WoD and WoT is about, and what kind of world we really live in.

Asking for TPTB to enforce government control should be the very last thing any liberty lover would expouse. I would suggest reading "I Was an Economic Hit Man" by John Perkins; it's a real eye-opener and a good place to start to understand what is really going on and that the problem is NOT illegals- it is hegemony.

And I am saying this all forthright and honest- not with any condescension in my heart.


Yes and you should also know that those major fixes will not happen in our lifetime and certainly not in time before the country is overrun with even more parasites than our own homegrown ones. And I will stick to reading Ron Paul who says we have to have border control as long as we have a welfare state. Imagine someone on the Ron Paul forum agreeing with Ron Paul.


I understand the argument of some libertarians that there should be no limits at all on who comes into the United States, but the reality is we do not live in a libertarian society. Ron Paul

qh4dotcom
07-14-2014, 05:16 AM
I wish that was the case, but it is not.

I have seen it enough times in my life, people fleeing the high taxes and regulations of socialist state like NJ or NY or MA and then, almost immediately, start agitating and OMGing and pushing for the exact same things they just fled from.

The voting results from south and central American immigrants indicate an overwhelming support for more government.


Absolutely....Venezuelans especially haven't learned their lesson.

Here's what a Cuban lady I know told me. Thousands of Venezuelans live in Doral, a city in the Miami area.



" I stood in line to vote in Doral both times and all Venezuelans around me were supporting Obama, all Democrats on the ballot, and tax hikes like the school bonds. They were all voting on the state amendments according to the what how the Democratic party told them to vote. And, one of those state amendments was against Obamacare. We got into some debates in that line. It was early voting so the line was long and we were standing there for five hours. They were defending all the socialist policies tooth and nail. They even defended the tax hikes for the school bonds after I showed them on my phone all the proof I had of the waste and mismanagement going on in our public schools since I'm a teacher and I know exactly what goes on. They didn't even understand that they were getting a tax increase. They kept arguing that the bonds were already there and that it belonged to the schools and that they were being given for free by the government. They had no concept of how bonds work, etc. and they still didn't care to know because as one venezuelan lady put it....it is the number one job of the government to provide lots of public social services for the people. And the Cubans are the same issue. .those new arrivals coming after the early 80s. You should hear most of them. They love socialism."

Terry1
07-14-2014, 06:17 AM
Get rid of the subsidies and welfare encouraging illegal immigration and we won't need the fences. Fences can be used to keep people in as well as out should all hell break loose in the U.S.

The problem isn't the illegals, it's the infighting within our own government who can't fix the problem because they refuse to end the entitlements encouraging them to come.

Legalize drugs and end the drug trafficking and governments involvement in the drug industry. Fat chance eh? Since when is the government a moral authority on anything and why would anyone expect them to be--this is the problem. That was never the intended function of "government".

The first amendment needs to be practiced across the board or it's pretty much a useless concept unless people are free from government tyranny to tell us how we're going to live, eat and which drugs people are allowed to get high on.

Who said fences work?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfVENwfeGHw

AuH20
07-14-2014, 08:19 AM
Absolutely....Venezuelans especially haven't learned their lesson.

Here's what a Cuban lady I know told me. Thousands of Venezuelans live in Doral, a city in the Miami area.

Human beings will rationalize that rat poison is not harmful if it fits into their current world view.

AuH20
07-14-2014, 08:23 AM
You are saying Guatemalans and Mexicans aren't Americans?

Depends. That's why we should focus on bringing in the curious individual as opposed to entire blocs of foreign nationals. Are they willing to embrace the precepts of Western Civ (Locke, Kant, Smith) and abandon the errors of the old world? Because that's largely what socialism and fascism is. It's a rehashed caste system with attractive window dressing.

Terry1
07-14-2014, 08:53 AM
Absolutely....Venezuelans especially haven't learned their lesson.

Here's what a Cuban lady I know told me. Thousands of Venezuelans live in Doral, a city in the Miami area.

Hungry sick, poor people are easy targets, they'll always choose their bellies and free healthcare and since we know that they will always be with us, it's easier to find these types who want in the U.S. Making them legal voters was criminal, but then--look who's running the government.

Eventually--and I believe very soon it's all going to collapse because the burden is already beyond too much for the taxpayers to bear and we're are now in debt to foreign governments to the point that our government is no longer in charge of it's own destiny. I don't believe at this point that anyone we vote for will be able to undo the kind of damage this country has sustained and for so long now. We're lending borrowed money and our cash and assets are pretty much just an illusion. Learn to speak Mandarin---I believe we'll need to before long now.

There's no where to point a finger and no *one to blame now--it's too late for that. We can talk about how bad Obama is, but he's simply the end result of past mistakes. Hungry sick people don't care about what's right--all they care about is staying alive.

mczerone
07-14-2014, 08:56 AM
Is everyone else kinda hoping that the anti-immigrant posters in this thread get stuck behind the border fence they so desperately want?

Even RP warned that the mechanisms to keep them out are the same as those required to keep you in.

AuH20
07-14-2014, 08:59 AM
Is everyone else kinda hoping that the anti-immigrant posters in this thread get stuck behind the border fence they so desperately want?

Even RP warned that the mechanisms to keep them out are the same as those required to keep you in.

That's why any person with a functioning brain has been stockpiling arms and food.

AuH20
07-14-2014, 09:00 AM
Hungry sick, poor people are easy targets, they'll always choose their bellies and free healthcare and since we know that they will always be with us, it's easier to find these types who want in the U.S. Making them legal voters was criminal, but then--look who's running the government.

Eventually--and I believe very soon it's all going to collapse because the burden is already beyond too much for the taxpayers to bear and we're are now in debt to foreign governments to the point that our government is no longer in charge of it's own destiny. I don't believe at this point that anyone we vote for will be able to undo the kind of damage this country has sustained and for so long now. We're lending borrowed money and our cash and assets are pretty much just an illusion. Learn to speak Mandarin---I believe we'll need to before long now.

There's no where to point a finger and no *one to blame now--it's too late for that. We can talk about how bad Obama is, but he's simply the end result of past mistakes. Hungry sick people don't care about what's right--all they care about is staying alive.

See Lord of the Flies. People in large numbers are dangerous no matter the color, which is why we should encourage enlightenment and personal discipline. Civilization is largely a mirage loosely held together by child like fantasies projected by our government. Once the bubble pops, you will see how forward thinking and civilized these people are.

Terry1
07-14-2014, 09:25 AM
See Lord of the Flies. People in large numbers are dangerous no matter the color, which is why we should encourage enlightenment and personal discipline. Civilization is largely a mirage loosely held together by child like fantasies projected by our government. Once the bubble pops, you will see how forward thinking and civilized these people are.

Agreed and we just might see that bubble pop sooner than people realize. Yes, they won't resemble humans any longer, but animals tearing each other apart in order to survive. I hope I never live to see the day, but I fear I just might at this point.

Ender
07-14-2014, 09:26 AM
Yes and you should also know that those major fixes will not happen in our lifetime and certainly not in time before the country is overrun with even more parasites than our own homegrown ones. And I will stick to reading Ron Paul who says we have to have border control as long as we have a welfare state. Imagine someone on the Ron Paul forum agreeing with Ron Paul.

Ron Paul


I am completely against a welfare state and so I repeat:


The first thing you do in a fire is:

1. Turn off all power to the fire, usually done by turning off the main power. This step alone is usually enough to stop most fires in the initial stages.

REPEAT: TURN OFF THE MAIN POWER FIRST.

Never waste your time running around putting the little side fires out or your house will be gone before you know it.

We will never regain a free republic if we do not work together to turn off the main power supply rather than running around putting out the brush fires.

William Tell
07-14-2014, 09:30 AM
Invasion is right, and on top of all this, that Mexican helicopter firing on Americans a few weeks ago.

fisharmor
07-14-2014, 09:38 AM
The only taxes most illegals pay if they pay any at all is FICA and Medicare and that is when they are actually on a payroll. Most of them claim so many exemptions they are in a zero withholding bracket. Then they file the earned income credit and get a refund on something they never paid in.
Source?


And there is absolutely nowhere I have ever said I support the welfare state nor have I supported kicking people out, but I have supported stopping them from coming in illegally so perhaps you should check your own reading comprehension skills.


I want existing border patrol to do their job.

Ok, you make a valid point here. I was assuming that you think Border Patrol's job is what it currently is - namely, to look for people who have already crossed the border and kick them out.
So please clarify. How do you intend for Border Patrol to prevent people coming in?


Oh and most of those illegals drawing a paycheck are doing so with falsified documents. If they have a legitimate green card then they are here legally...otherwise they have committed identity theft.
You might have a point here except, as already pointed out, you're concentrating on a proximate problem here.
The main problem is that there is no freedom to contract one's labor in this country. A free country would not require a 2-day onboarding process and an entire department of professional HR people just to make a new hire.

I think you should go hire an illegal immigrant sometime. I don't think you can truly understand where I'm coming from before that.
You drive up to 7-11, you say you need someone to dig holes, you take him home, he digs your holes, you hand him some cash, and drop him back off.
It's such a marvelously uncomplicated and functional and ancient practice that it's really hard not to wonder why we can't do that with our doctors and barbers and dry cleaners, too.
At least without the risk of getting butt-raped in prison, anyway.

Carlybee
07-14-2014, 10:28 AM
Source?





Ok, you make a valid point here. I was assuming that you think Border Patrol's job is what it currently is - namely, to look for people who have already crossed the border and kick them out.
So please clarify. How do you intend for Border Patrol to prevent people coming in?


You might have a point here except, as already pointed out, you're concentrating on a proximate problem here.
The main problem is that there is no freedom to contract one's labor in this country. A free country would not require a 2-day onboarding process and an entire department of professional HR people just to make a new hire.

I think you should go hire an illegal immigrant sometime. I don't think you can truly understand where I'm coming from before that.
You drive up to 7-11, you say you need someone to dig holes, you take him home, he digs your holes, you hand him some cash, and drop him back off.
It's such a marvelously uncomplicated and functional and ancient practice that it's really hard not to wonder why we can't do that with our doctors and barbers and dry cleaners, too.
At least without the risk of getting butt-raped in prison, anyway.

I don't need a source. I've seen it first hand and I've worked in human resources in Texas for a long time. I know exactly how it works.

Let me know when we can implement that free country thing and how much illegals will cost us until then. I'm sure you can figure the math.

I'm well aware of how picking up an illegal and paying him cash works. We have them in the hundreds on our street corners here. A lot of them get screwed around on their pay too when some jackass promises them $7 an hour and after they do the work gives them $4 an hour. Happens all the time with these landscapers here because they know they can get away with it and the illegal won't report them. For your edification, I know quite a few illegals, I even like them, but I don't like paying for them when they play the system and they do. Maybe you enjoy paying more tax, I don't.

Beyond that, you are tilting at windmills and I'm tired of explaining that the core issues that cause this will not be solved before thousands if not millions more come in.

As for how to do the existing job..number one is Congress needs to get off their butts and insist the laws be enforced. Number two, Mexico is totally complicit in facilitating this to happen, yet we still send them financial aid so that needs to be cut off immediately. Those are things that can be done now. Stopping the drug war, making all drugs including heroin legal, is simply not going to happen anymore than trying to convince Congress to vote to immediately stop all wars or end the Fed. Or end the Patriot Act or dissolve all alphabet agencies. States need to step up and use their own resources.

Does that mean we should just stop trying to fix the core issues ? Of course not.

I have a comment about farm workers. About half the organic produce I buy comes from south of the border. I'm eating a banana right now from Colombia. If you look at even the non organic produce in the store much of it comes from Mexico. Large ag conglomerates are operating farms down there more and more. It's in their interests to see the NAU implemented so they can avoid tariffs. Think about that next time you worry that American farms won't be able to find cheap labor...many of them are disappearing.

HOLLYWOOD
07-14-2014, 11:28 AM
Things are beginning to add up now.


http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/07/12/hondorun-president-vows-to-keep-dumping-illegal-alien-children-on-u-s-border-until-his-friend-president-obama-says-to-stop/

In May 2013 President Obama attended (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/01/security-casts-shadow-over-obama-mexico-trip/)a gathering of leaders from the Central American Integration System, (CAIS). [The leaders of Belize, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua and Panama] It wasn’t the first conversation (http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/07/10/as-expected-homeland-security-announces-anticipation-of-90000-illegal-uacs-this-year-alone/).. This Reuters article from last month explains the ideology ?

More on the gameplan...


Central America presses Biden on Migrant Rights, as U.S. Vows More Aid

Friday, June 20, 2014 12:14 a.m. CDT
By Mike McDonald
GUATEMALA CITY (Reuters) - Central American leaders on Friday pressed visiting U.S. Vice-President Joe Biden to improve migrant rights, even as the United States committed tens of millions of dollars in extra aid to the region in a bid to stem a surge of illegal immigration.
The White House said the United States would launch a $40 million program to improve security in Guatemala to reduce pressures fueling migration to the United States and a $25 million program to provide services to youth in El Salvador who are vulnerable to organized-crime pressure.
Responding to what President Barack Obama has called a humanitarian crisis, the U.S. Congress on Tuesday advanced legislation boosting funds by as much as $2.28 billion to handle a surge of foreign children entering the country illegally.
But underlying tensions continue to simmer.


Senator Robert Menendez and Democratic Representative Luis Gutierrez said U.S. lawmakers in the Congressional Hispanic Caucus on Wednesday held a "very testy meeting" with diplomats from El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras and Mexico.
"I proposed to the Vice President the possibility of considering temporary work programs, which would allow (Guatemalans) to go for a time and return," Guatemalan President Otto Perez Molina said on Friday after meeting Biden, along with other Central American leaders, in Guatemala City.
U.S. data show that between October and May more than 47,000 unaccompanied minors, mostly Central Americans, crossed into the United States, nearly double the number in the prior year.


"As long as (U.S.) immigration reform is not approved, the exodus of children to the United States will continue," Jorge Ramon Hernandez, the senior representative of Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernandez, said at the talks.

https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/amb_jorge_hernandezalcerro_600_1.jpg
Presidents Obama and Guatemalan President Otto Perez Molina


A partisan divide in the United States has stymied Obama's efforts to reform immigration laws.
Insisting the immigrant children should be returned to their parents, Biden also said "immigration reform has not died".
El Salvador's President Salvador Sanchez Ceren said this week he would press Biden for a reform to help reunite existing family members in the United States with more recent arrivals.


After Friday's talks, Sanchez said he intended to keep working for the rights of the affected children.
"Each and every one of our countries has an obligation to guarantee the rights of children and adolescents," he said.
On Thursday, Obama spoke to Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto over how to deal with the Central American children.
According to a U.S. official who asked not to be identified, Washington has taken steps over the past few weeks to encourage Guatemala and Mexico to better secure their common border.


In addition, the official said, U.S. and Central American governments are reorienting their law enforcement efforts to target the child smuggling operations that increasingly are "marketing" their services to parents of unaccompanied minors.
"The (administration) message that is coming out now is 'Don't come,'" the U.S. official said in an interview. "And if you think you're coming and once you're here you won't be returned, that's not the case. You're not going to be able to stay. And that's the message that we're hoping will dissuade these young people," the official added. It is a tough message, but one that many experts think will fail to shut a spigot that Washington estimates will bring at least 60,000 "unaccompanied minors" to the U.S. border this year and grow to 120,000 next year, up from 6,000 in 2011.
"I understand why they're doing it, but I don't think it's a solution," said Wendy Young, president of Kids in Need of Defense. "People are desperate" to leave violence and poverty in their home countries, she added.


Many unaccompanied children have sought to escape drug-fueled conflicts in the region as well as rejoin family members who have already made the journey.
(Additional reporting by Dave Graham in Mexico City, Gustavo Palencia in Tegucigalpa, Nelson Renteria in San Salvador and Richard Cowan, Mark Felsenthal, Doina Chiacu and Roberta Rampton in Washington; Editing by Simon Gardner, Dan Grebler and Ken Wills)

AuH20
07-14-2014, 11:34 AM
Who does this guy think he is? A big fuck you is in order.


"As long as (U.S.) immigration reform is not approved, the exodus of children to the United States will continue," Jorge Ramon Hernandez, the senior representative of Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernandez, said at the talks.


And the anti-immigration folks are the ones being painted as the extremists?

Carlybee
07-14-2014, 11:45 AM
I am completely against a welfare state and so I repeat:



We will never regain a free republic if we do not work together to turn off the main power supply rather than running around putting out the brush fires.

When the brush fire threatens to burn the whole town down you either let it happen or turn on the hose. People are working together against the odds of succeeding. Do I need remind you what happened during the last two presidential campaigns? We also have president who bypasses Congress and does what he wants to do. So please tell me how you turn off the power supply

LibertyEagle
07-14-2014, 12:37 PM
The first thing you do in a fire is:

1. Turn off all power to the fire, usually done by turning off the main power. This step alone is usually enough to stop most fires in the initial stages.

REPEAT: TURN OFF THE MAIN POWER FIRST.

Never waste your time running around putting the little side fires out or your house will be gone before you know it.

Maybe you should get your head outta where the sun don't shine, so you can actually understand where the fire has initiated from.

Actually, I think it's you who is suffering from that affliction, Ender; not I.

You put out the fire before continuing to pontificate; else your ass will be burned alive.

Ender
07-14-2014, 12:48 PM
When the brush fire threatens to burn the whole town down you either let it happen or turn on the hose. People are working together against the odds of succeeding. Do I need remind you what happened during the last two presidential campaigns? We also have president who bypasses Congress and does what he wants to do. So please tell me how you turn off the power supply

Presidents have bypassed Congress for years; tell me- when was the last time a Constitutional war was declared?

This history didn't start at the last 2 presidential campaigns- been going on pretty much since the founding of the country- especially since the War Between the States.

The immigrant "brushfire" isn't going to burn the whole town down. It is a distraction so people can get their panties in a wad while the real agenda burns the house down. So, concentrate on that while chips/Real ID come into play and all other freedoms become extinct.

Because you asked for it-

Carlybee
07-14-2014, 01:05 PM
Is everyone else kinda hoping that the anti-immigrant posters in this thread get stuck behind the border fence they so desperately want?

Even RP warned that the mechanisms to keep them out are the same as those required to keep you in.

Who has been asking for a fence? Oh and should we kinda hope these children come to your neighborhood? 2778

Carlybee
07-14-2014, 01:09 PM
Presidents have bypassed Congress for years; tell me- when was the last time a Constitutional war was declared?

This history didn't start at the last 2 presidential campaigns- been going on pretty much since the founding of the country- especially since the War Between the States.

The immigrant "brushfire" isn't going to burn the whole town down. It is a distraction so people can get their panties in a wad while the real agenda burns the house down. So, concentrate on that while chips/Real ID come into play and all other freedoms become extinct.

Because you asked for it-

Okay Ender...let's hear your comprehensive step by step plan that could be implemented in a timely enough manner to halt the total evisceration of the middle class. Put your cojones where your mouth is Don Quixote. Do you support the NAU ?

William Tell
07-14-2014, 01:10 PM
Is everyone else kinda hoping that the anti-immigrant posters in this thread get stuck behind the border fence they so desperately want?

Even RP warned that the mechanisms to keep them out are the same as those required to keep you in.

Way better option than the coming Global Government the open borders crowd will get us. This latest wave of foreigners does not understand or support liberty or the Constitution. They will drag us down. A nation without borders is no nation at all, like Ron Paul said.

Ender
07-14-2014, 01:31 PM
Okay Ender...let's hear your comprehensive step by step plan that could be implemented in a timely enough manner to halt the total evisceration of the middle class. Put your cojones where your mouth is Don Quixote. Do you support the NAU ?

Ahhh... your step-by-step desires. You ask this on all threads (w/o giving YOUR solutions, of course.) I have given you the plan- you don't like it because you only want more government to control more government.

And THIS is the only thing I support:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCEUpIg8rE

Carlybee
07-14-2014, 01:52 PM
Ahhh... your step-by-step desires. You ask this on all threads (w/o giving YOUR solutions, of course.) I have given you the plan- you don't like it because you only want more government to control more government.

And THIS is the only thing I support:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCEUpIg8rE

I have given my plan...or as close as I can not knowing all the particulars of border crossings. I stated above the immediate things that could be done now...not 20 years from now. You've done nothing but state the obvious and try to say that's a plan.
I don't agree with you on addressing concerns that require an immediate solution with long term what ifs. And ya know what..you don't have to agree with me nor do I care whether you do or not but I'm not going to shut up just because that's what you would like. And don't lay that because you asked for it bullshit on me. We are already living in a police state and I damned sure didn't ask for it. If you aren't storming the White House on a daily basis with a pitchfork I could say you are all hat and no cattle.

JustinTime
07-14-2014, 02:40 PM
Race,, religion,, political party,, sports team

There is nothing new under the sun.

http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/~irish.gif

http://chronicle.com/blognetwork/edgeofthewest/files/2010/02/26/chinesetacoma-jpg.jpeg

http://americanaejournal.hu/images/58t.jpg

Nothing new,,

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/60767_f496.jpg


They will do everything they can to have us fight anything but the real threat,,, The Government.

But dont oppose the governments immigration plans?

Yeah, I get'cha. Just oppose the government, but dont actually, you know, oppose the things it does.

pcosmar
07-14-2014, 02:55 PM
But dont oppose the governments immigration plans?

Yeah, I get'cha. Just oppose the government, but dont actually, you know, oppose the things it does.

What makes you think I don't oppose the Governments plan?

What make you think you know what that plan is?

I have read several CFR Documents on the subject. I am just not under any illusion that this is an Obama plan.
Any more than it was a Bush plan, or a Clinton plan, or a Reagan Plan..

END Welfare. That will end the problem. (but it ain't gonna happen )

William Tell
07-14-2014, 03:02 PM
But dont oppose the governments immigration plans?

Yeah, I get'cha. Just oppose the government, but dont actually, you know, oppose the things it does.
The Government's plan is an open border, notice how they are not enforcing the law?

fisharmor
07-14-2014, 03:06 PM
END Welfare. That will end the problem. (but it ain't gonna happen )

Not while everyone's concentrating on enforcing border security.

Doesn't anyone else find it particularly interesting that for 8000 years of human civilization literally nobody cared what borders you crossed....
....until the 19th century, when they started setting up the welfare state?
Then all of a sudden... checkpoints, passports, no-mans-lands, etc.

fisharmor
07-14-2014, 03:07 PM
The Governments plan is an open border, notice how they are not enforcing the law?
History disagrees with you.

TheCount
07-14-2014, 07:57 PM
The Government's plan is an open border, notice how they are not enforcing the law?

The law says Mexicans are deported immediately, Guatemalans have the right to a hearing and get to stay until it's over.

They're enforcing the law.

pcosmar
07-14-2014, 08:21 PM
The law says Mexicans are deported immediately, Guatemalans have the right to a hearing and get to stay until it's over.

They're enforcing the law.

That would be the "Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act"? I'm just guessing.. I don't have the full text of all 8 amnesties handy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaraguan_Adjustment_and_Central_American_Relief_ Act

That one was pushed by a Republican democrat,, and slipped into an Appropriations Bill.

William Tell
07-14-2014, 08:27 PM
The law says Mexicans are deported immediately, Guatemalans have the right to a hearing and get to stay until it's over.

They're enforcing the law.
Then why do we have millions of Illegals here?

William Tell
07-14-2014, 08:29 PM
History disagrees with you.

The Globalists are in charge now, they hate nationalism even more than Anarchists do. Independent nation states get in the way of the New World Order.

TheCount
07-14-2014, 08:35 PM
That would be the "Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act"? I'm just guessing.. I don't have the full text of all 8 amnesties handy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaraguan_Adjustment_and_Central_American_Relief_ Act

That one was pushed by a Republican democrat,, and slipped into an Appropriations Bill.

My understanding is that it is this bill: William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 (http://www.state.gov/j/tip/laws/113178.htm)

TheCount
07-14-2014, 08:36 PM
Then why do we have millions of Illegals here?

If pot is illegal, why do people still smoke it?

AuH20
07-14-2014, 08:42 PM
The Globalists are in charge now, they hate nationalism even more than Anarchists do. Independent nation states get in the way of the New World Order.

Some anarchists simply won't account for the human element nor the cultural impasses that lead to strife. They simply think everyone will live together in a climate of non-aggression. It's a utopian fallacy.

William Tell
07-14-2014, 08:42 PM
If pot is illegal, why do people still smoke it?

In other words, the feds are for the most part not enforcing the immigration laws, like I said.

AuH20
07-14-2014, 08:42 PM
The Globalists are in charge now, they hate nationalism even more than Anarchists do. Independent nation states get in the way of the New World Order.

Some anarchists simply won't account for the human element nor the cultural impasses that lead to strife. They simply think everyone will live together in a heavenly climate of non-aggression. It's a utopian fallacy.

William Tell
07-14-2014, 08:45 PM
Some anarchists simply won't account for the human element nor the cultural impasses that lead to strife. They simply think everyone will live together in a climate of non-aggression. It's a utopian fallacy.

Yeah, if 400 million Chinese Communists moved here, the open borders crowd would STILL mock us for complaining: "Why do you hate Asians" they would say.

DamianTV
07-14-2014, 08:52 PM
If pot is illegal, why do people still smoke it?

Why? Because the application of the Law is wrong. Just as giving so much money in Welfare that it causes another "Economic Budget Crisis" is wrong.

There is a bit of irony here as well. If a person earns more, they spend more and pay more in taxes (like Sales Tax, not Income Tax). But getting everyone to work for as little as possible would decrease Tax Revenue. Yet, we insist on bringing in as many people as possible to fill jobs that pay as little as possible? Isnt that a bit Counterproductive? Or is this yet again how a Central Bank can fuck everything up? Govt gets their money from Central Banks, not Taxpayers, so Govt has absolutely no problem with letting everyone work for jack shit, or just collect welfare, and working for jack shit is what Corporations want. Does that not have a certain degree (very small, maybe) of Irony to the whole thing?

pcosmar
07-14-2014, 08:57 PM
My understanding is that it is this bill: William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 (http://www.state.gov/j/tip/laws/113178.htm)

That one was signed by Bush,,
That would have been after he signed his own Amnesty bill.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Immigration_Reform_Act_of_2007

TheCount
07-15-2014, 06:18 AM
In other words, the feds are for the most part not enforcing the immigration laws, like I said.

The government secretly wants pot to be legal?


It must, otherwise there would be no pot.

kcchiefs6465
08-10-2014, 08:53 AM
Step up your reading.

And "most" would be far from the truth. Truth is, "most" wish to use the government to extort other people for things that do not belong to them to fund their pet issues. Whether that be border patrol, the police department, the food card program, busing immigrants here or there, etc. You would be included in the "most." Congratulations.

You would be A, Obama and his ilk would be B, and I would be C.

http://i.imgur.com/kW4rsVV.jpg?1


And C would be the guy behind Obama kneeling down?
A literal laugh out loud. Even to this day.

Smdh.

Anti Federalist
08-10-2014, 09:44 AM
Not while everyone's concentrating on enforcing border security.

Doesn't anyone else find it particularly interesting that for 8000 years of human civilization literally nobody cared what borders you crossed....
....until the 19th century, when they started setting up the welfare state?

Then all of a sudden... checkpoints, passports, no-mans-lands, etc.

There were welfare and slave states throughout human history, the first settlements in the New World were welfare states, for example.

No, what changed in the 19th century was the widespread use of fast, trans-oceanic sailing ships, followed by railroads, followed by steamships, followed by automobiles and then air travel.

These new technologies allowed for the vast migration and movements of people, the likes of which had never been seen before.

Coupled with the advances in medicine in the 19th and early 20th century that prompted a population boom, there was bound to be the inevitable pushback.

So, history altering advances in technology, that were hailed as "liberators" of mankind, ultimately ended up limiting freedom and mobility.

And now you know why I cast such a jaundiced eye at each new "glorious" technological geegaw, that the technocrats claim will liberate mankind, again.

I don't know if I can take too much more of their brand of freedom.