How much should a person working 16-20 hours a day on the Blimp make?

[Elijah]

How much do you think a person should make for devoting their entire life for the next year to make the blimp advertising project a success?

Keep in mind that they have a house payment and car payment to keep up and may/may not have a family to take care of.

[cien750hp]

as much as you need to get by for now. in littleton, probably somewhere around 45-50 grand? for a year. (and with your income tax gone after january 09 you'll have more money to do what you want with. :) )

[cero]

Elijah I dont think we are worried about how much you will be making, but where is going to come from. if you could please explain all the extra details, on the site it would be great

[leipo]

5 grand maximum.

[steph3n]

How much do you think a person should make for devoting their entire life for the next year to make the blimp advertising project a success?

Keep in mind that they have a house payment and car payment to keep up and may/may not have a family to take care of.

I believe that it should be fair market pay such as any other business. I see people pulling for a PAC or a non-profit while at the same time not understanding that PACs and non profits can pay EXTREMELY high salaried just like a for profit LLC.

Most markets this would be 3500-6500 a month for a salaried employee, but if you look as PACs, advertising firms, or no profits I would at least look at double that amount. I am doing some research to see if others are having to disclose what they make for comparison.

[leipo]

Oh, for the next year. I missed that part. Then i guess it should be more.

[forsmant]

3 bushels of wheat and a goat!:(

[steph3n]

first result a senior associate at red cross is 40k a year base

source:
http://www.vault.com/companies/company_main.jsp?product_id=602&co_page=13&type=salary

oh my word, top salary at red cross it over 600k!!!! and this is a non profit charity!!

http://www.forbes.com/finance/lists/14/2004/LIR.jhtml?passListId=14&passYear=2004&passListType=Misc&datatype=Misc&uniqueId=CH0013

[kylejack]

Stephen, PACs have to report disbursements, and transparency has been sorely lacking so far. I'm also concerned now that millions will be taken out of Paul's campaign funds pipe to fund this. The blimp seems fun and might be effective, but is it really worth this much that won't get donated to Ron?

[steph3n]

Stephen, PACs have to report disbursements, and transparency has been sorely lacking so far. I'm also concerned now that millions will be taken out of Paul's campaign funds pipe to fund this. The blimp seems fun and might be effective, but is it really worth this much that won't get donated to Ron?

i think that is exactly why they went this route, as a PAC people that maxed to ron could NOT give to this, now they can.

I am almost maxed, will be next month I did not pledge and was not planning to give here but i think I will now.

[GoSlash27]

Elijah,
Ignore the nay-sayers. Do what you think is best. Keep meticulous records, allay the concerns as best you can, and get that thing airborne.
Best,
-John

P.S. The BlimpCam dude. Install the BlimpCam. ;):D

[steph3n]

Elijah,
Ignore the nay-sayers. Do what you think is best. Keep meticulous records, allay the concerns as best you can, and get that thing airborne.
Best,
-John

P.S. The BlimpCam dude. Install the BlimpCam. ;):D

It would be awesome to break new ground like RP has on live donations and names, to give a nice transparency to business as well :D I have sent a note expressing this not sure what will come of it.

[GoSlash27]

All the concerns about money, transparency, even the artwork....it will all disappear if you just install the BlimpCam. People want to see "blimp".

/BlimpCam :cool:

[BeFranklin]

How much do you think a person should make for devoting their entire life for the next year to make the blimp advertising project a success?

Keep in mind that they have a house payment and car payment to keep up and may/may not have a family to take care of.

Freedom! :D

[Elijah]

All the concerns about money, transparency, even the artwork....it will all disappear if you just install the BlimpCam. People want to see "blimp".

/BlimpCam :cool:

We have some nice cameras in the works but we need money for the blimp before I can get someone out there to do the streaming video.

We also have a second blimp we would like to have in New Jersey but that is on hold until we can fund the blimp and media kits and Ron Paul Airforce jackets for the flight crew.

[cero]

elijah remember that 100K of those pledges were fake,
and at the rate donations are coming it its going to be hard to get it ready in time for the tea party.
You need to clear the air up

[theantirobot]

Upper 40's sounds good to me. I mean, come on folks. We've got to treat the people who are going to do things like this well if we want to encourage others to do it. I sincerely believe we can create a whole economy on supporting Ron Paul and advancing liberty. Transparency is key.

[Gump9005]

You messed up on this.

For the longest time this was strictly volunteer and now, so close to when this thing is supposed to go up, we learn that people will be making money.


People pledged for the blimp, not for people.

I hope this actually goes up but understand if people decide to not go through on their pledges. It will truly be a scam if they don't get their money back if it turns out that the pledges don't come through.

[steph3n]

elijah remember that 100K of those pledges were fake,
and at the rate donations are coming it its going to be hard to get it ready in time for the tea party.
You need to clear the air up

I am pretty confident the air will be nice and clear when done, not to mention the ozone will be much safer than with an airplane :D

[steph3n]

You messed up on this.

For the longest time this was strictly volunteer and now, so close to when this thing is supposed to go up, we learn that people will be making money.


People pledged for the blimp, not for people.

I hope this actually goes up but understand if people decide to not go through on their pledges. It will truly be a scam if they don't get their money back if it turns out that the pledges don't come through.
You seriously believe that other groups have people at the top working for free? You don't live in the US do you?

[michaelwise]

Elijah,
You and Trever and whoever else you need, do whatever it takes to get this thing off the ground and keep it going through all the primaries. Many don't understand the impact this is going to have. Just do whatever you have to and don't let the nay-sayers get to you.

[rrroae]

How much do you think a person should make for devoting their entire life for the next year to make the blimp advertising project a success?

Keep in mind that they have a house payment and car payment to keep up and may/may not have a family to take care of.


Not sure but I believe whatever you have in mind would be fair. The problem is you should have addressed this earlier and gave donors an idea what you and Trevor had in mind. What were you guys thinking...?

I'd hazard to guess that you put in 100x the amount of time that I do on the RP campaign so you should get some big time slack if you make a mistake or 2. Just be a little more forthcoming and I'm sure you'll see how reasonable and grateful people will be(minus a couple of exceptions).

Please don't get too discouraged. Your a great asset to the campaign. Just get some of these things straightened out so we can look forward to that giant blimp in the sky.

[theantirobot]

You messed up on this.

For the longest time this was strictly volunteer and now, so close to when this thing is supposed to go up, we learn that people will be making money.


People pledged for the blimp, not for people.

I hope this actually goes up but understand if people decide to not go through on their pledges. It will truly be a scam if they don't get their money back if it turns out that the pledges don't come through.

I think it makes our message much more compelling when people are profiting off it, and we still support it.

[GoSlash27]

Elijah,
You don't need anything fancy, time consuming, or expensive.
Just a cheap Best Buy web cam that refreshes about once a minute so people can look at the website and see a real blimp in real time. And when the time comes they can watch it get decorated.
Tomorrow if possible :D
/BlimpCam

[cero]

yes we NEED TO SEE THE BLIMP being painted and stuff this will motivate people so MUCH!!
I think making a video with you trevor and the rest of the team explaining the whole situation would solve all the problems. and it should be posted on the main site
this should be DONE as soon as possible

[steph3n]

yes we NEED TO SEE THE BLIMP being painted and stuff this will motivate people so MUCH!!

I am sure they need money before that can happen, 350k is a lot to speculate on in such short time :(

[michaelwise]

Ask Google if they would like to pay for the advertising of their company, on our company blimp. Maybe we could have the fancy Google logo on it.

[GoSlash27]

steph3n,
They've got 15,000 donated according to the website. A cheapie web cam goes for what, $30?
I'm tellin'ya; a few minutes of effort and a little coding will make all the problems evaporate.
Blimp.....





...Cam :o

[Hook]

For someone heading up a company I would guess around 80-90 K

[Hook]

I think everyone was a lot more comfortable with this when it was going to be a PAC.

[steph3n]

steph3n,
They've got 15,000 donated according to the website. A cheapie web cam goes for what, $30?
I'm tellin'ya; a few minutes of effort and a little coding will make all the problems evaporate.
Blimp.....





...Cam :o

what i mean is the blimp company would be downright STUPID to allow a blimp to be painted without the funds in hand

[GoSlash27]

That's okay. Show 'em an unpainted blimp. ;)
All the anxiety is really just a reaction to not seein' "blimp". You show 'em "blimp" and they'll pay for it. You show 'em "unpainted blimp" and they'll pay to get it painted. You show 'em "blimp on the ground" and they'll pay to get it in the air even if they're not thrilled with the artwork. They have ownership in the idea. They just need something they can see.

They need to see "blimp" stat.

BlimpCam

[steph3n]

I think everyone was a lot more comfortable with this when it was going to be a PAC.

There are major legal implications to a PAC i had researched it in brief and decided it was worthless, this is a novel new idea that will be much better than any PAC IMO

[rrroae]

That's okay. Show 'em an unpainted blimp. ;)
All the anxiety is really just a reaction to not seein' "blimp". You show 'em "blimp" and they'll pay for it. You show 'em "unpainted blimp" and they'll pay to get it painted. You show 'em "blimp on the ground" and they'll pay to get it in the air even if they're not thrilled with the artwork. They have ownership in the idea. They just need something they can see.

They need to see "blimp" stat.

BlimpCam

Good post!!

[slantedview]

I think everyone was a lot more comfortable with this when it was going to be a PAC.

yea well... PAC would have constrained donations for many people such that it probably wouldn't be possible.

[Hook]

yea well... PAC would have constrained donations for many people such that it probably wouldn't be possible.

I understand ya, just observing again. I hope you have a legal fund to fight the FEC if they come after you. Even if you are in the right, you are still going to have to defend yourself.

[cero]

hell ya all I want to see is the BLIMP thats all

[McDermit]

Why do we NEED anyone other than the already included crew on the blimp 24/7?

And you know there are people who would do this for free.

[MozoVote]

GoSlash27 is right. Progress will motivate donors.

Plus, once it is in the air, a "Keep the Blimp Flying" meme will take hold. Will still require several thousand $ a day to keep it going, though. Whew... this is one heckova big publicity stunt.

[millerjd]

I know I'm a new user, but I had to join to at least express my thoughts.

What is being done in general with the grassroots efforts for RP here is redefining itself. The thought of raising 4.3million one day, half a million on another shortly after with Dec 16th coming up was never possible before the advent of the combination of RP's message, the internet, and passion of the people to spread something they believed in.

... And now we, the people of this candidacy are proposing to launch a blimp (I've heard maybe 2??!!?) with no campaign help, no major company backing... Is it me or does this sound insane?? A BLIMP! You're Launching What?! A blimp paid for by people who believe in a greater cause than themselves. The message this blimp is going to bring just due to it's existance is going to surpass anything that anyone who is unbeknown to this project's realm of reality, and that's why it is so important.

I think this has been reiterated to death, but I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, they ask that your first $2300 go to RP, then if you believe in the magnitude of this project, donate.

I helped start a company in 2002, and it was slim pickings for living for a long time. Company does not automatically equal rich or made person or that you ever will be. The people who have put this together have literally opened up a new door of fund raising capabilities never before available to those who may have a little extra cash and believe in the message.

We all hope for transparency in a set up such as this, but we are going to have to pick our battles to accomplish the goal, the goal of getting RP into the Office, which is the most important goal of all.

Back to the topic... How much to get paid? I think you [the people of the new formed business] know what's fair to keep up with your living expenses, I've fought that battle again and again with my own small business trying to decide if I should take more money to cover my tail and stay alive versus investing it back in.

[steph3n]

Why do we NEED anyone other than the already included crew on the blimp 24/7?

And you know there are people who would do this for free.

When people have to coordinate legal work for hours upon hours, they can't leave their job to do it for free :(

[torchbearer]

You got my support Elijah, I would have set it up the same way...
People here don't realize how much work is required to do some of these "dreams" we want to accomplish.

If Elijah steals your money, you can press criminal charges and sue civilly for damages...
So, do you trust or do you not trust? If you don't... don't participate. If you do... please do.

This project isn't for everyone...

[robinlynn]

How much do you think a person should make for devoting their entire life for the next year to make the blimp advertising project a success?

Keep in mind that they have a house payment and car payment to keep up and may/may not have a family to take care of.

I say no more than 30-35K and that is for the main person running the show. This should be a labor of love and not a profit making venture. There are thousands of people volunteering around the country who are gettting nothing but the chance to change history by getting ron paul in office.

But the main problem here is not that you want to get paid, but the fact that many major decisions regarding this project were not made transparent to the grassroots. If you expect strangers to donate massive amounts of their own money to getting the blimp off the ground than you need to be really clear about what is involved and what you're doing. Unfortunately, I think you've now rattled the trust of many of the people who originally pledged.

Here are what I see as the main reasons why people might be skeptical of this project now:

1. Everyone who donated to this project was under the assumption, based on the photos, videos, and artist renderings shown on your first website that the slogan was going to be "ron paul, peace-freedom-prosperity." After raising all of the money plus more, you guys decided to change it to "who is ron paul" and "google ron paul." you did this without telling anyone.

2. the website went offline for awhile and got replaced by a much slicker page that now says you are a for profit company. There was no explanation for this either. all the original pledges were removed and a new system of "buying advertising space" was created. I think this caused a lot of confusion for donors.

3. according to your website, you now have now hired a staff, a 3 person media team and 4 (!) lawyers. Apparently, donations are going to be used to pay all these people. While donors may not mind this, you guys made no effort of informing us that our money was going to be used for these purposes. (and out of curiousity, are you planning to keep the 4 lawyers on staff for a year? how much is that going to cost?)

4. While it's very commendable that you spend 16-20 hours a day working on this, it's not our job to make sure you keep your house and car.

All in all, the more transparent you are the better. I sincerely wish you luck in getting the blimp off the ground but i'm worried you guys shot yourselves in the foot on this one.

[bulloncoins]

All in all, the more transparent you are the better. I sincerely wish you luck in getting the blimp off the ground but i'm worried you guys shot yourselves in the foot on this one.

And the Church said "Amen".

[constitutional]

By the look of the organizer's work... I say less than 5k and no, you don't need to work on this fucking blimp thing 15-18 hours per day once it is up. There are many volunteers who can fill the position. Just look at Ron Paul radio, people are volunteering and not asking for money. Be more transparent and respond to members' concerns. You get an F on that.

[cero]

robinlynn
You hit the nail on the head

[rrroae]

You're right Amistad, the lack of response addressing some pretty major issues is somewhat flabbergasting. Why wait?

The longer people wait for answers, the more momentum is lost.

[steph3n]

You're right Amistad, the lack of response addressing some pretty major issues is somewhat flabbergasting. Why wait?

The longer people wait for answers, the more momentum is lost.

I believe the answers are being prepared I messaged and was told that an email will be sent to those that pledged regarding the whole situation.

[rrroae]

I believe the answers are being prepared I messaged and was told that an email will be sent to those that pledged regarding the whole situation.

Cool!! Thanks Steph.

[constitutional]

And if the person who organized this decides to back out now because he is not being paid well.. well you better not. You've taken too much energy away from people to back out now.


You will be the first person to make a huge screw up at the grassroot level.


As much as I want this blimp up, arggh... I wish someone with competency would take this project over.

[jmhend]

Elijah,
Thank you so much for all your work on this. I know you are working as hard as you can right now to get answers to everyone and to get this thing up and flying.
You have my support!

[rrroae]

As much as I want this blimp up, arggh... I wish someone with competency would take this project over.


I think it would only be fair to give Trevor and Elijah some time here. Not forever mind you but they deserve at least that for the effort they've put in.

Now if they fail to adequately answer people's concerns,....by all means let's get someone else in there. Let's just give them the chance they're owed.

[steph3n]

It seems to me they were both VERY competent to get one of the best political lawyers available the FORMER FEC commissioner!

[McDermit]

When people have to coordinate legal work for hours upon hours, they can't leave their job to do it for free :(

I could and would.

There are plenty of other dedicated supporters who have the means and experience as well.

[steph3n]

I could and would.

There are plenty of other dedicated supporters who have the means and experience as well.

Do you realize how much it costs to obtain legal counsel? I have to pay over 5k a month for a retainer on a small technology company

[born2drv]

Why do we NEED anyone other than the already included crew on the blimp 24/7?

And you know there are people who would do this for free.

Exactly... no offense to those that started this project, but this should be done in addition to your regular job as a hobby. And if your job doesn't allow you to devote 16-20hrs/day, then find 16-20 volunteers to devote 1hr/day.

If you want this to be a grassroots project, you have to get volunteers involved. There's no reason this should be a for-profit endeavor.

I was skeptical at first of the notion of $350k to get a blimp vs other more productive advertisements. I'm even more skeptical of a for-profit business running the operation, no refunds allowed, and all this legal jargon which instills little confidence in getting contributors and volunteers. Grassroots projects are not meant to be solitary. If you wish to recieve an official salary for running this project you should work for the campaign instead.

[born2drv]

Do you realize how much it costs to obtain legal counsel? I have to pay over 5k a month for a retainer on a small technology company

I'd be willing to bet there are at least a dozen lawyers in this forum alone who would gladly do this work for free.

[steph3n]

I'd be willing to bet there are at least a dozen lawyers in this forum alone who would gladly do this work for free.

Not ones that have the firepower to defend from other campaigns attacks.

[slantedview]

Exactly... no offense to those that started this project, but this should be done in addition to your regular job as a hobby. And if your job doesn't allow you to devote 16-20hrs/day, then find 16-20 volunteers to devote 1hr/day.

You have to be kidding, unless you're thinking of some job that can also stop the earth's rotation, thereby enabling 34 hour days?

[Dustancostine]

You messed up on this.

For the longest time this was strictly volunteer and now, so close to when this thing is supposed to go up, we learn that people will be making money.


People pledged for the blimp, not for people.

I hope this actually goes up but understand if people decide to not go through on their pledges. It will truly be a scam if they don't get their money back if it turns out that the pledges don't come through.

I agree. I am sorry but that is not what I signed up for. I only pledged $100, but I will not make it now. :(

[Mark]

If it's a volunteer project, the definition of the correct answer is zip, nada, nothing.

If it's a for-profit venture, they should take it off this volunteer board.

[born2drv]

You have to be kidding, unless you're thinking of some job that can also stop the earth's rotation, thereby enabling 34 hour days?

That was my point. If you're not capable of working for a living, and running the project on your own personal time, then get volunteers....

[born2drv]

Not ones that have the firepower to defend from other campaigns attacks.

Are you serious? What the hell do we need lawyers for to fly a freaking blimp anyways? Do we need a dentist as well? What about a jeweler?

This is absurd. It's not our role as grassroots organizers to defend Ron Paul from other campaign attacks. It's not our job to keep his teeth clean or to make sure he has lots of bling either.

We should just get the damn blimp, let the campaign know they may use it for whatever purpose they wish, and on other free time we should use it as a fundraising tool, to fly over events, or whatever. There's no damn need to hire lawyers. Seriously this whole thing wreaks of waste and corruption and it's really starting to make me sick to my stomach this project is being associated with Ron Paul or our Grassroots.

[steph3n]

Are you serious? What the hell do we need lawyers for to fly a freaking blimp anyways? Do we need a dentist as well? What about a jeweler?

This is absurd. It's not our role as grassroots organizers to defend Ron Paul from other campaign attacks. It's not our job to keep his teeth clean or to make sure he has lots of bling either.

We should just get the damn blimp, let the campaign know they may use it for whatever purpose they wish, and on other free time we should use it as a fundraising tool, to fly over events, or whatever. There's no damn need to hire lawyers. Seriously this whole thing wreaks of waste and corruption and it's really starting to make me sick to my stomach this project is being associated with Ron Paul or our Grassroots.

what you have said is ILLEGAL if it is done, the campaign CAN NOT USE the blimp IN ANY WAY

[born2drv]

what you have said is ILLEGAL if it is done, the campaign CAN NOT USE the blimp IN ANY WAY

Why don't you tell me why we need 4 lawyers to operate a damn blimp? Or 1 for that matter?

[steph3n]

Why don't you tell me why we need 4 lawyers to operate a damn blimp? Or 1 for that matter?

FEC

[slantedview]

That was my point. If you're not capable of working for a living, and running the project on your own personal time, then get volunteers....
how about this.

no.

[born2drv]

FEC

What the hell are you talking about?

Are you telling me I can't call up a blimp company right now and tell them I want to rent it for a week without having a lawyer?

Why is it everyone else is capable of organizing advertising for Ron Paul without the use of lawyers? Why is it they do it out of their free time yet you guys insist on being paid for it?

[steph3n]

What the hell are you talking about?

Are you telling me I can't call up a blimp company right now and tell them I want to rent it for a week without having a lawyer?

Why is it everyone else is capable of organizing advertising for Ron Paul without the use of lawyers? Why is it they do it out of their free time yet you guys insist on being paid for it?

sue happy world my friend, live with it until we change it :D

[born2drv]

sue happy world my friend, live with it until we change it :D

sued for what? let the blimp company be liable for any property/liability damage that can occur due to their negligence. what are you going to be sued for???? LIBEL for saying "RON PAUL REVOLUTION" or something? Give me a break! If you're not allowed to fly somewhere, ask the blimp operators to take responsibilities for ensuring your flight path or whatever is legal. if they refuse and demand you hire a team of lawyers to cover your ass, then maybe that should give you a clue this is not worth our time, money or energy.

if you're worried about being sued then let someone else run the show, let the campaign take over the project, or find some bum on the street to take on the legal liability for all i care... or how about just do everyone a favor and abandon the project and refund their money so they can donate to the official campaign instead?

[jake]

And if the person who organized this decides to back out now because he is not being paid well.. well you better not. You've taken too much energy away from people to back out now.


You will be the first person to make a huge screw up at the grassroot level.


As much as I want this blimp up, arggh... I wish someone with competency would take this project over.

you are kidding, right? what have you done to get the blimp in the air?

[jake]

I will also add, there should be no paid positions. if you want to be paid, step aside and let someone else do the job..

[James R]

How much do you think a person should make for devoting their entire life for the next year to make the blimp advertising project a success?

Keep in mind that they have a house payment and car payment to keep up and may/may not have a family to take care of.

Illijah, PLEASE do me a favor.
1. Cut as much from your personal budget as you can. Add 20% to that.
2. Now release that figure as what you want for your salary.
3. State whether you expect there to be any additional paid members.

[Hook]

They have to use 4 lawyers because they are circumventing the FEC laws (Which I'm not sure I think was the best decision, BTW). If it was a normal PAC, they wouldn't need all that stuff.

We'll see what's what tomorrow with the email.

[born2drv]

They have to use 4 lawyers because they are circumventing the FEC laws (Which I'm not sure I think was the best decision, BTW). If it was a normal PAC, they wouldn't need all that stuff.

We'll see what's what tomorrow with the email.

The last thing I want is for 5 people to donate $100k each to get a ron paul blimp up in the air, just to see them and Paul be the painted as immoral corrupt people trying to circumvent campaign finance laws.

The laws are put there for a reason. Why are we trying to weasel around the laws? If you can't get this project off the ground by using traditional-legal means with a mass support of diverse contributors then maybe it's time to re-examine the viability of the whole project to begin with.

[rrroae]

The last thing I want is for 5 people to donate $100k each to get a ron paul blimp up in the air, just to see them and Paul be the painted as immoral corrupt people trying to circumvent campaign finance laws.

The laws are put there for a reason. Why are we trying to weasel around the laws? If you can't get this project off the ground by using traditional-legal means with a mass support of diverse contributors then maybe it's time to re-examine the viability of the whole project to begin with.

That's a pretty good point Born. One I didn't really think to much about til your post.

Nice heads up.

[slantedview]

They have to use 4 lawyers because they are circumventing the FEC laws (Which I'm not sure I think was the best decision, BTW). If it was a normal PAC, they wouldn't need all that stuff.

We'll see what's what tomorrow with the email.
i'm sure that consulting the former FEC chairman helped.

[jake]

i'm sure that consulting the former FEC chairman helped.

Indeed. they know what they are doing - but I think it's a good point that it could look a bit funny - ("why try to circumvent the FEC regulations in the first place") the media will ask

[Doriath]

The last thing I want is for 5 people to donate $100k each to get a ron paul blimp up in the air, just to see them and Paul be the painted as immoral corrupt people trying to circumvent campaign finance laws.

The laws are put there for a reason.

Yeah -- to restrict political speech and make sure that only big money interests get their message across. Campaign finance law needs a HUGE overhaul, with an equally huge eye towards freedom of speech.

I see nothing immoral or corrupt here. Ingenius? Perhaps...

[deronde]

I would personally say to pay for their housing/food expenses and perhaps an modest allowance.. but this is a volunteer gig, not a lucrative job.

[born2drv]

Indeed. they know what they are doing - but I think it's a good point that it could look a bit funny - ("why try to circumvent the FEC regulations in the first place") the media will ask

Exactly..... we're already painted as crazy, kooks, spammers, kids living in their parents basements, skinheads, potheads, you name it.

I don't want to add "crooks" or "corrupt financiers" to the list.


"This just in, Ron Paul raised $16M this quarter!" ... "And in related news, the political world is shocked to learn the hypocrisy of the Ron Paul campaign, which is now being investigated for illegal contributions."

[LukeNM]

If you are going to run this as a business then you need to come up with a business plan. Your boss, if you report to anyone, should determine your salary based on the requirements of the position and not what you need to survive. You also do not need to share this with everyone. Either they are in or out… You will never please them all so stop trying. Let it go, they will only “should” you!

[born2drv]

Yeah -- to restrict political speech and make sure that only big money interests get their message across. Campaign finance law needs a HUGE overhaul, with an equally huge eye towards freedom of speech.

I see nothing immoral or corrupt here. Ingenius? Perhaps...

Guess what ---- ITS THE LAW. Ron Paul doesn't like the IRS, but it doesn't stop him from paying his taxes. Does he use creative and sneaky ways of depriving the government of his tax dollars? No. Ron Paul has followed the law and the constitution to the letter and never strayed from it once. We should follow the same path and take the high road.

There is no reason to use creative legal jargon to get a damn blimp in the air. If we need to violate the law or even run a shady operation in the gray-area of campaign finance law to do so, then we should abandon the project.

[moberley]

It would be awesome to break new ground like RP has on live donations and names, to give a nice transparency to business as well :D I have sent a note expressing this not sure what will come of it.

I concur with this. Obviously there are a certain level of privacy and other legal concerns. On the other hand, the FEC will be expecting forms for the larger donations anyway. You're breaking new ground as it is. If you can find some way to open this up as suggested I would encourage you to pursue that.

[Bruehound]

Bureaucrats placed mandated mileage standards on auto manufacturers but consumers didn't want crappy little dangerous cars so auto manufactuers started building cars on truck platforms which were exempt from the regulations.

Bureaucrats regulated showerheads so only low flow 2.5 gallon per minute ones could be legally sold but consumers were not satisfied with wimpy showers so showerhead manufacturers began selling fixtures with multiple showerheads--each of them individually in compliance.

Bureaucrats tried to regulate and restrict political speech in America . . .

A free mind is always faster and smarter than a bureaucrat.

[Doriath]

Guess what ---- ITS THE LAW.
It is? Then why havent they been shut down already?

I fail to see how setting up an ad agency and buying media time -- which is what this is -- violates campaign finance law. Most of the other campaign have ad agencies who buy their spots, whether they are TV spots, radio spots, newspaper ads, or even big flying outdoor billboards like blimps.

The only difference between what we are doing by buying time on the blimp and what the campaign is doing buying time on TV is that...well, we are doing it. Nice find of a loophole, if you ask me.

As to why no one else had done this before, how many other campaigns have had this kind of grassroots support that might buy hundreds of thousands of dollars of media time on its own?

[JohnnyWrath]

It takes 20 hours a day...every day.... to rent a blimp?

Tell them what we want, give them the money, and be done in 20 minutes.....renting a blimp is not a career.

[Hook]

It is? Then why havent they been shut down already?

I fail to see how setting up an ad agency and buying media time -- which is what this is -- violates campaign finance law. Most of the other campaign have ad agencies who buy their spots, whether they are TV spots, radio spots, newspaper ads, or even big flying outdoor billboards like blimps.

The only difference between what we are doing by buying time on the blimp and what the campaign is doing buying time on TV is that...well, we are doing it. Nice find of a loophole, if you ask me.

As to why no one else had done this before, how many other campaigns have had this kind of grassroots support that might buy hundreds of thousands of dollars of media time on its own?

That is what has been bugging me though. We have all this grassroots support, so why do we need to circumvent the law? I can just about guarantee you we could get 10,000 people to donate $35.00 each. That would buy the blimp for a month and not require any lawyers or LLCs or dozens of staff.

You buy the blimp through the PAC, tell the company where to fly and have 4 people take a week vacation each to ride on it and make sure it is going where it is supposed to go.

No one has to quit their job, strife is greatly reduced amongst the grassroots, and people don't have to worry about geting the FEC on them.

I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

[steph3n]

That is what has been bugging me though. We have all this grassroots support, so why do we need to circumvent the law? I can just about guarantee you we could get 10,000 people to donate $35.00 each. That would buy the blimp for a month and not require any lawyers or LLCs or dozens of staff.

You buy the blimp through the PAC, tell the company where to fly and have 4 people take a week vacation each to ride on it and make sure it is going where it is supposed to go.

No one has to quit their job, strife is greatly reduced amongst the grassroots, and people don't have to worry about geting the FEC on them.

I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

I could not donate to the PAC along with many others. In order for me to be able to donate the blimp would have to advertise TWO candidates and not be affiliated with a SINGLE candidate

[rrroae]

That is what has been bugging me though. We have all this grassroots support, so why do we need to circumvent the law? I can just about guarantee you we could get 10,000 people to donate $35.00 each. That would buy the blimp for a month and not require any lawyers or LLCs or dozens of staff.

You buy the blimp through the PAC, tell the company where to fly and have 4 people take a week vacation each to ride on it and make sure it is going where it is supposed to go.

No one has to quit their job, strife is greatly reduced amongst the grassroots, and people don't have to worry about geting the FEC on them.

I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

Your brilliant!!

Maybe we should put this up for a vote tommorrow if things turn out bad.

[steph3n]

Your brilliant!!

Maybe we should put this up for a vote tommorrow if things turn out bad.

it won't work due to PAC regulations on a single candidate PAC

[rrroae]

I could not donate to the PAC along with many others. In order for me to be able to donate the blimp would have to advertise TWO candidates and not be affiliated with a SINGLE candidate

Is that just you or everyone?

[JohnnyWrath]

These guy are trying to start new careers and have started a company using the forums here and Ron Paul supporters. The news is even reporting Trevor is taking all the email addresses he has collected from all this to start a consulting business.

Someone else take control of the blimp project....please.

[steph3n]

Is that just you or everyone?

well anyone maxed out to the official campaign couldn't give

[steph3n]

These guy are trying to start new careers and have started a company using the forums here and Ron Paul supporters. The news is even reporting Trevor is taking all the email addresses he has collected from all this to start a consulting business.

you are relying WAY too much on that free market news source, they have also reported tons of upcoming media events for Ron Paul that never happened

[Hook]

I could not donate to the PAC along with many others. In order for me to be able to donate the blimp would have to advertise TWO candidates and not be affiliated with a SINGLE candidate

Yes, but there are plenty of people that haven't maxed out yet. I'm sure there are at least 10,000 people that haven't.

[NewEnd]

Elijah,
You and Trever and whoever else you need, do whatever it takes to get this thing off the ground and keep it going through all the primaries. Many don't understand the impact this is going to have. Just do whatever you have to and don't let the nay-sayers get to you.


I agree... you and Trevor, please remmebr some of us only make $20,000 a year, or less.

So please, put your luxury wants and needs on hold. Make your car and house and food payments, but put off luxury, entertainment and travel for the year. If you get a paid position working for a liberty PAC, you are better off than most of us, and in an enviable position. Most of us are working for free.

and if you are working 16-20 hours a day on teh project... you shouldn't have time fo rluxury and entertainment anyways.

[moberley]

They have to use 4 lawyers because they are circumventing the FEC laws (Which I'm not sure I think was the best decision, BTW). If it was a normal PAC, they wouldn't need all that stuff.

We'll see what's what tomorrow with the email.

I don't see that they are circumventing any campaign finance laws with the timeshares. They are certainly challenging the effect (and arguably the intent) of the FEC regulations which is to limit political speech by non-politicians and other outsiders. I'm not a lawyer, but I see no intent to break the law. They are even providing all of their shareowners with the required forms to file with the FEC.

Besides the limits placed on total amounts spent on political contributions, the law also requires that sources of funding be made public. Now there are various ways this can be obscured within the existing regulations but I see no reason why this project needs to be one of those. It seems to me that proactive transparency on the part of Liberty Political Advertising could be beneficial here. As a statement of openness publishing names of shareowners (without waiting for FEC filing periods) should be considered.

Kudos to all involved for being willing to innovate.

[rrroae]

well anyone maxed out to the official campaign couldn't give

But we still couldn't do it per PAC regulations even if we had the campaign take the money and do it themselves?

[NewEnd]

It takes 20 hours a day...every day.... to rent a blimp?

Tell them what we want, give them the money, and be done in 20 minutes.....renting a blimp is not a career.


they have to set a schedule, and provide and event schedule for peopel who have donated large amounts of money... they will want a little bang for their buck if they donate $5,000... a hotdog cart and cans of Pepsi will not do.

[JohnnyWrath]

I don't know how else to explain this.....you go to the blimp company, and you rent the freakin' blimp....it takes an hour tops, this is not a career.

These people are trying to use us to kick start their own careers...

We want to rent a blimp, why are 20 people making a career out of it and quitting their jobs and starting companies???? understand? we are trying to rent one F-ing thing....why is anyone making this their career?

[rrroae]

Yes, but there are plenty of people that haven't maxed out yet. I'm sure there are at least 10,000 people that haven't.

That's what I'm thinking.

[NewEnd]

People who are bitching about the law have no idea how much those laws are circumvented all the time.

try swiftboat veterans for truth, a 527 group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/527_group

Believe me, this is perfectly legal.

[NewEnd]

I don't know how else to explain this.....you go to the blimp company, and you rent the freakin' blimp....it takes an hour tops, this is not a career.

These people are trying to use us to kick start their own careers...

We want to rent a blimp, why are 20 people making a career out of it and quitting their jobs and starting companies???? understand? we are trying to rent one F-ing thing....why is anyone making this their career?


they have to set a schedule, and provide and event schedule for peopel who have donated large amounts of money... they will want a little bang for their buck if they donate $5,000... a hotdog cart and cans of Pepsi will not do.

[Doriath]

That is what has been bugging me though. We have all this grassroots support, so why do we need to circumvent the law? I can just about guarantee you we could get 10,000 people to donate $35.00 each. That would buy the blimp for a month and not require any lawyers or LLCs or dozens of staff.

You buy the blimp through the PAC, tell the company where to fly and have 4 people take a week vacation each to ride on it and make sure it is going where it is supposed to go.

No one has to quit their job, strife is greatly reduced amongst the grassroots, and people don't have to worry about geting the FEC on them.

First, they're only "circumventing" the law in the same sense that I'm "circumventing" the law when I do 50 in a 55 MPH zone.

Second, to your larger point...in a month...it's all over. Why not use the blimp to jump-start a business that supports not just Paul but lower-level candidates who think like him? Haven't I read all over this board about how top-down doesn't work? You can't get much more "top" than the President of the U.S. Everyone, it seems to me, is getting hung up on, "oh, they're gonna make money" and ignoring the idea that a foundation for long-term success could start right here.

I don't know if these blimp guys are for real or not, for all I know they could be planning to take the $50 I gave them today and scoot to Aruba. But if they are for real it seems to me they are doing exactly what needs to be done to build for the future.

[therealjjj77]

Guess what ---- ITS THE LAW. Ron Paul doesn't like the IRS, but it doesn't stop him from paying his taxes. Does he use creative and sneaky ways of depriving the government of his tax dollars? No. Ron Paul has followed the law and the constitution to the letter and never strayed from it once. We should follow the same path and take the high road.

There is no reason to use creative legal jargon to get a damn blimp in the air. If we need to violate the law or even run a shady operation in the gray-area of campaign finance law to do so, then we should abandon the project.

There is nothing law about it. Simply misapplied legislation.

"Income" Defined:

"Whatever difficulty there may be about a precise and scientific definition of 'income', it imports, as used here, something entirely distinct from principle or capital either as a subject of taxation or as a measure of the tax; conveying rather the idea of gain or increase arising from corporate activities."
Doyle v. Mitchell Brother, Co., 247 US 179 (1918)

"Income" can only mean what is stated above:

"When to this we add that in Eisner v. Macomber, supra, a case arising under the same Income Tax Act of 1916 which is here involved, the definition of 'income' which was applied was adopted from Stratton's Independence v. Howbert, supra, arising under the Corporation Excise Tax Act of 1909, with the addition that it should include 'profit gained through sale or conversion of capital assets,' there would seem to be no room to doubt that the word must be given the same meaning in all of the Income Tax Acts of Congress that was given to it in the Corporation Excise Tax Act, and that what that meaning is has now become definitely settled by decisions of this Court.
In determining the definition of the word 'income' thus arrived at, this Court has consistently refused to enter into the refinements of lexicographers or economists, and has approved, in the definitions quoted, what it believed to be the commonly understood meaning of the term which must have been in the minds of the people when they adopted the Sixteenth Amendment to the Constitution. Doyle v. Mitchell Brothers Co., 247 U.S. 179, 185, 38 S. Sup. Ct. 467; Eisner v. Macomber, 252 U.S. 189, 206, 207 S., 40 Sup. Ct. 189, 9 A. L. R. 1570."
MERCHANTS' LOAN & TRUST CO. v. SMIETANKA, 255 U.S. 509 (1921)


TITLE 26(Internal Revenue Code), Subtitle A, CHAPTER 1, Subchapter A, PART I, Sec. 1.
(a) There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of -

Will Elijah be involved in "gain or increase arising from corporate activities"? I doubt it.

[JohnnyWrath]

Am I going insane? nobody cares that they want to rent out the blimp for non-political advertising so they can make money? And you are going to pay for it???

Keep Rons name off it then and just rent the thing to advertise Pepsi and Viagra if you want nothing but money...

[tangent4ronpaul]

I second everything Robin said in this post - I have to start asking myself if the blimp is going to fly at all, now.

As to how much someone should make? - NOTHING!, a per-diem to cover ACTUAL hotel, food and ground transportation costs, sure, but there are plenty of supporters that would do this for free. I've met many organizers that routinely put in 16 hour days for Ron Paul, not expecting a penny back and actually regularly reaching into their pocket and donating heavily to make things happen.

house payment? - put your stuff in storage and rent the place out. car - sell it or put it in storage, and work out extended payments or pay it off if you have the savings. Hundreds of thousands of people did this sort of thing to enlist or re-enlist in the military after 9/11.

Many people would be willing to do that if they had the opportunity to travel with the blimp.

-n



I say no more than 30-35K and that is for the main person running the show. This should be a labor of love and not a profit making venture. There are thousands of people volunteering around the country who are gettting nothing but the chance to change history by getting ron paul in office.

But the main problem here is not that you want to get paid, but the fact that many major decisions regarding this project were not made transparent to the grassroots. If you expect strangers to donate massive amounts of their own money to getting the blimp off the ground than you need to be really clear about what is involved and what you're doing. Unfortunately, I think you've now rattled the trust of many of the people who originally pledged.

Here are what I see as the main reasons why people might be skeptical of this project now:

1. Everyone who donated to this project was under the assumption, based on the photos, videos, and artist renderings shown on your first website that the slogan was going to be "ron paul, peace-freedom-prosperity." After raising all of the money plus more, you guys decided to change it to "who is ron paul" and "google ron paul." you did this without telling anyone.

2. the website went offline for awhile and got replaced by a much slicker page that now says you are a for profit company. There was no explanation for this either. all the original pledges were removed and a new system of "buying advertising space" was created. I think this caused a lot of confusion for donors.

3. according to your website, you now have now hired a staff, a 3 person media team and 4 (!) lawyers. Apparently, donations are going to be used to pay all these people. While donors may not mind this, you guys made no effort of informing us that our money was going to be used for these purposes. (and out of curiousity, are you planning to keep the 4 lawyers on staff for a year? how much is that going to cost?)

4. While it's very commendable that you spend 16-20 hours a day working on this, it's not our job to make sure you keep your house and car.

All in all, the more transparent you are the better. I sincerely wish you luck in getting the blimp off the ground but i'm worried you guys shot yourselves in the foot on this one.

[Hook]

First, they're only "circumventing" the law in the same sense that I'm "circumventing" the law when I do 50 in a 55 MPH zone.

Second, to your larger point...in a month...it's all over. Why not use the blimp to jump-start a business that supports not just Paul but lower-level candidates who think like him? Haven't I read all over this board about how top-down doesn't work? You can't get much more "top" than the President of the U.S. Everyone, it seems to me, is getting hung up on, "oh, they're gonna make money" and ignoring the idea that a foundation for long-term success could start right here.

I don't know if these blimp guys are for real or not, for all I know they could be planning to take the $50 I gave them today and scoot to Aruba. But if they are for real it seems to me they are doing exactly what needs to be done to build for the future.

I don't care about them making money. Just thinking they are making this way more complicated than needed.

[NewEnd]

I second everything Robin said in this post - I have to start asking myself if the blimp is going to fly at all, now.

As to how much someone should make? - NOTHING!, a per-diem to cover ACTUAL hotel, food and ground transportation costs, sure, but there are plenty of supporters that would do this for free. I've met many organizers that routinely put in 16 hour days for Ron Paul, not expecting a penny back and actually regularly reaching into their pocket and donating heavily to make things happen.

house payment? - put your stuff in storage and rent the place out. car - sell it or put it in storage, and work out extended payments or pay it off if you have the savings. Hundreds of thousands of people did this sort of thing to enlist or re-enlist in the military after 9/11.

Many people would be willing to do that if they had the opportunity to travel with the blimp.

-n

How are people spending 16 hours a day on Ron Paul, and still eating and staying covered from the elements, and keeping clothes on their back?

Why dont you put all your stuff in storage, sell your car, and lead the blimp project?

[rrroae]

That is what has been bugging me though. We have all this grassroots support, so why do we need to circumvent the law? I can just about guarantee you we could get 10,000 people to donate $35.00 each. That would buy the blimp for a month and not require any lawyers or LLCs or dozens of staff.

You buy the blimp through the PAC, tell the company where to fly and have 4 people take a week vacation each to ride on it and make sure it is going where it is supposed to go.

No one has to quit their job, strife is greatly reduced amongst the grassroots, and people don't have to worry about geting the FEC on them.

I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

Besides making those who've contributed the max $2300 ineligible, is there any reason this wouldn't work or is there a way to make this work.

[NewEnd]

Am I going insane? nobody cares that they want to rent out the blimp for non-political advertising so they can make money? And you are going to pay for it???

Keep Rons name off it then and just rent the thing to advertise Pepsi and Viagra if you want nothing but money...

Who said they are renting the blimp for non-political advertising?

[Jagwarr]

These guy are trying to start new careers and have started a company using the forums here and Ron Paul supporters. The news is even reporting Trevor is taking all the email addresses he has collected from all this to start a consulting business.


I have to kinda agree with this. First it was a blimp with raffle tickets and some media members. Then it was a blimp with a couple pre-selected people riding with it 24/7. Now they need Ron Paul Jackets, and lawyers, and a yearly salary.

At this point I think it better to return any funds and ask the campaign if they want to hire you guys to run this for them. If Ron Paul thinks it's a good idea then fine but this no longer has anything to do with a grassroots movement.

[NewEnd]

I have to kinda agree with this. First it was a blimp with raffle tickets and some media members. Then it was a blimp with a couple pre-selected people riding with it 24/7. Now they need Ron Paul Jackets, and lawyers, and a yearly salary.

Thats right, this could end up being a profitabel enterprise, that coudl not only pay the employees, but also leave money left over for more promotion by the PAC.

And Ron PAul JAckets!?? HELL YES!! They need to look like a Nascar team. Some of you people have a problem with what is going ot be great about this project!


At this point I think it better to return any funds and ask the campaign if they want to hire you guys to run this for them. If Ron Paul thinks it's a good idea then fine but this no longer has anything to do with a grassroots movement.

Not even feasible.

[rrroae]

How are people spending 16 hours a day on Ron Paul, and still eating and staying covered from the elements, and keeping clothes on their back?

Why dont you put all your stuff in storage, sell your car, and lead the blimp project?


If this were to go back to non profit, I'd do it full time salary free, but with food, travel and shelter. I'm sure we could find a couple hundred more RP supporters who feel strongly enough about his message that they'd do the same.

[Hook]

Besides making those who've contributed the max $2300 ineligible, is there any reason this wouldn't work or is there a way to make this work.

I'm certain it would. Lord Xar already has a PAC and I'm sure he would let us use it for this purpose. In fact, I suggested this very idea to Elijah about a week ago.

Not sure what exactly is going on, but I think these guys are biting off way more than necessary for the basic goal of floating a blimp around the country. It is turning into some huge press dog and pony show, with about 48 hours worth of planning before execution.

I hope it works out, but it is starting to make me worried.

[NewEnd]

Elijah, trevor

Fuck the haters.

Onward and upawards. LEt the naysayers pull their pledges, more will come in. Peopel who are going to be donating $1000's know that an operation like this cant be run by volunteers wearing falnnel and Jeans. Everything to me looks great.. make it happen.

Fuck the haters.

If they want to withdraw their pledge, they are more than welcome to do so... I think at most you will lose 20 or 30,000 in small pledges from this "contoversy"

Onward and upward. damn the torpedos... yada yada yadas....



Oh... and by curly's airships

http://www.curlysairships.com/

Its a great little songstory 2 hours long to listen to.

:)

[NewEnd]

If this were to go back to non profit, I'd do it full time salary free, but with food, travel and shelter. I'm sure we could find a couple hundred more RP supporters who feel strongly enough about his message that they'd do the same.


So you have no car payments, no house payments, no CC payments?

A couple hundred Paul supporters? this project needs leadership and vision, not a bunch of cats fighting over a few words and jackets.

[Mental Dribble]

The laywers know how to make this work and for it to be above board. If they think an LLC is the best way then thas where my support is. I've donated my pledged amount.

[rrroae]

I'm certain it would. Lord Xar already has a PAC and I'm sure he would let us use it for this purpose. In fact, I suggested this very idea to Elijah about a week ago.

Not sure what exactly is going on, but I think these guys are biting off way more than necessary for the basic goal of floating a blimp around the country. It is turning into some huge press dog and pony show, with about 48 hours worth of planning before execution.

I hope it works out, but it is starting to make me worried.

God bless Elijah and Trevor for all the work they've done but my goal isn't to spare someone's feelings. It's to get RP elected.

Hook the simplicity of your plan seems to be the best alternative we've got if things turn sour tommorrow.

Hopefully Elijah and Trevor work things out but if not, it's always good to have a backup plan.

[NewEnd]

Not sure what exactly is going on, but I think these guys are biting off way more than necessary for the basic goal of floating a blimp around the country. It is turning into some huge press dog and pony show, with about 48 hours worth of planning before execution.


It is taking way more than 48 hours of planning, there are many things to consider... weather is a huge factor, tehre will be many cancelled showings, and refunds in order, due to weather. there are many complexities to an airship, that is why they are not used very often by anyone.

This is way more complicated than making a balloon flaot around the country... nto only is it going to float around, it also needs to draw corwds wherever it goes, which means lots of foresight and planning... and that takes a professional dedicated to the task.

[Doriath]

So you have no car payments, no house payments, no CC payments?

A couple hundred Paul supporters? this project needs leadership and vision, not a bunch of cats fighting over a few words and jackets.

What he said.

[Hook]

God bless Elijah and Trevor for all the work they've done but my goal isn't to spare someone's feelings. It's to get RP elected.

Hook the simplicity of your plan seems to be the best alternative we've got if things turn sour tommorrow.

Hopefully Elijah and Trevor work things out but if not, it's always good to have a backup plan.

Of course, it is easy for me, since I don't have to actually work out the logistics :D
I give it a pretty good chance of working if they can convince the pledgers, but I am still worried about it.

[tangent4ronpaul]

How are people spending 16 hours a day on Ron Paul, and still eating and staying covered from the elements, and keeping clothes on their back?

Why dont you put all your stuff in storage, sell your car, and lead the blimp project?

Some live with parents or spouses.

Some own their homes and have investment income.

Some are retired or disabled and get money from the government.

Some work part time to keep that roof over their head, and work full to double time for Ron Paul.

Some like freelance reporters sell the story to a magazine or documentary company and they pay them to come along.

There are a lot of people like that out there. Many are full time Ron Paul Grassroots organizers.

-n

[rrroae]

So you have no car payments, no house payments, no CC payments?

A couple hundred Paul supporters? this project needs leadership and vision, not a bunch of cats fighting over a few words and jackets.

Self employed land investor with a wife who works at Cisco.

My situation is better than most so I wouldn't be sacrificing that much. Others would do the same sacrificing more.

[NewEnd]

Some live with parents or spouses.

Some own their homes and have investment income.

Some are retired or disabled and get money from the government.

Some work part time to keep that roof over their head, and work full to double time for Ron Paul.

Some like freelance reporters sell the story to a magazine or documentary company and they pay them to come along.

There are a lot of people like that out there. Many are full time Ron Paul Grassroots organizers.

-n

Well why dont you cut down costs on the project, and go tell elijah and Trevor you want to volunteer for the blimp project full time. I am sure they could use the help of a full time volunteer.


Self employed land investor with a wife who works at Cisco.

My situation is better than most so I wouldn't be sacrificing that much. Others would do the same sacrificing more.

Hey look, two volunteers!! I'll tell Trevor and Elijah immediately. You guy are sure to get a free blimp ride too. It'll be fun. Kiss your wife and kids goodbye for a year!

[Jagwarr]

This is way more complicated than making a balloon flaot around the country... nto only is it going to float around, it also needs to draw corwds wherever it goes, which means lots of foresight and planning... and that takes a professional dedicated to the task.


Does Elijah have experience in running Blimps? Could you please tell us what jobs Elijah has held in the past?

[Hook]

It is taking way more than 48 hours of planning, there are many things to consider... weather is a huge factor, tehre will be many cancelled showings, and refunds in order, due to weather. there are many complexities to an airship, that is why they are not used very often by anyone.

This is way more complicated than making a balloon flaot around the country... nto only is it going to float around, it also needs to draw corwds wherever it goes, which means lots of foresight and planning... and that takes a professional dedicated to the task.

Actually, that was my point. For what they are trying to do, they are trying to compress months of planning into 4 days. The whole crowd thing and press liason staff, etc. is a lot more than most of the people here were planning on.
Again, I hope it works out, just seems a bit haphazard to me.

[rrroae]

I give it a pretty good chance of working if they can convince the pledgers, but I am still worried about it.


I see a pretty big hump here. Hopefully tommorrow we hear what we need to hear so we can get this thing moving again. But I'm worried as well.

Better to keep as much inside as I can right now. No sense in fueling the fire.

[rrroae]

Hey look, two volunteers!! I'll tell Trevor and Elijah immediately. You guy are sure to get a free blimp ride too. It'll be fun. Kiss your wife and kids goodbye for a year!


You kid. I don't.

[Benaiah]

Just let everyone know what's going on and be upfront with everything.

Personally, I think that you could find dozens of people willing to fly around on the blimp for 1 or 2 grand a month. Thousands of us already spend hours a day helping out for free.


Be frugal like Ron is.

[NewEnd]

You kid. I don't.


go for it! Contact them. give up your land investment business for a year. kiss your wife and kids goodbye. Contact Trevor and Elijah... Go for it if you are not kidding. I am not stopping you!

what makes you think I am kidding? Put up, or shut up.

[rrroae]

go for it! Contact them. give up your land investment business for a year. kiss your wife and kids goodbye. Contact Trevor and Elijah... Go for it if you are not kidding. I am not stopping you!

what makes you think I am kidding? Put up, or shut up.

Oh. did this go nonprofit?

And seriously man, who wouldn't love to fly around in a blimp for a couple months.

Hell yeah I'd do it!!!

[JohnnyWrath]

What's the number for this "liberty political advertising"....I called every business in the strip mall at that address, and I talked to some really nice people actually, but they never heard if it.

I can NOT seriously believe that people are quitting their jobs and making a career out of renting a blimp....wtF?

You are selling advertisements on the blimp not related to Ron Paul...

You are making profit or trying to at least.

There are thousands of people that would have done it for free.

Trevor has done nothing but promote his own self to the media...

Trevor and Elijah have formed a company...Trevor is President, and Elijah is vice president....I want to know how much this company is charging for their services....to say we just donate and they keep whatever is left is complete shit.

[steph3n]

Oh. did this go nonprofit?

And seriously man, who wouldn't love to fly around in a blimp for a couple months.

Hell yeah I'd do it!!!

What does non profit mean? Absolutely nothing, look up the salaries at non profit orgs if you don't believe me.

[slantedview]

go for it! Contact them. give up your land investment business for a year. kiss your wife and kids goodbye. Contact Trevor and Elijah... Go for it if you are not kidding. I am not stopping you!

what makes you think I am kidding? Put up, or shut up.
seriously. i think most of the posters here need to seriously recognize the sacrifice these guys have made so far.

[NewEnd]

Oh. did this go nonprofit?

And seriously man, who wouldn't love to fly around in a blimp for a couple months.

Hell yeah I'd do it!!!

Have you contacted Elijah and trevor yet? Or are you just boasting?

[slantedview]

What's the number for this "liberty political advertising"....I called every business in the strip mall at that address, and I talked to some really nice people actually, but they never heard if it.

I can NOT seriously believe that people are quitting their jobs and making a career out of renting a blimp....wtF?

You are selling advertisements on the blimp not related to Ron Paul...

You are making profit or trying to at least.

There are thousands of people that would have done it for free.

Trevor has done nothing but promote his own self to the media...

Trevor and Elijah have formed a company...Trevor is President, and Elijah is vice president....I want to know how much this company is charging for their services....to say we just donate and they keep whatever is left is complete shit.
your posts are getting annoying as hell. for the thousandth f'ing time

PPPPPPAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNCC CCCCCCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

the information is coming. jesus. go find a hobby.

it's a brand new freaking company that is still in the process of being created, and you're dialing strip malls? what's wrong with you? go watch tv or something.

[rrroae]

seriously. i think most of the posters here need to seriously recognize the sacrifice these guys have made so far.

Well I'm willing to sacrifice months on end going around in the RP blimp.

Seriously. And I'll do it for nothing.

[NewEnd]

What's the number for this "liberty political advertising"....I called every business in the strip mall at that address, and I talked to some really nice people actually, but they never heard if it.

I can NOT seriously believe that people are quitting their jobs and making a career out of renting a blimp....wtF?

You are selling advertisements on the blimp not related to Ron Paul...

You are making profit or trying to at least.

There are thousands of people that would have done it for free.

Trevor has done nothing but promote his own self to the media...

Trevor and Elijah have formed a company...Trevor is President, and Elijah is vice president....I want to know how much this company is charging for their services....to say we just donate and they keep whatever is left is complete shit.



Just dont donate, and go away. we dont need people like you. You guys have been around since the movement started bitching about everything, The rELOVution sign, November 5th, every idea, will always have a few shrill opponents arguing tooth and nail without substance or fact, claiming their tiny donation entitles them to lead teh grassroots movement.

Take your money and find something else to support.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Well why dont you cut down costs on the project, and go tell elijah and Trevor you want to volunteer for the blimp project full time. I am sure they could use the help of a full time volunteer.

I already am volunteering on it part time, and have other things I am working on so not really interested in making it my life for the next year.

The current direction the project is going is causing me some serious concern, however. Hopefully they will go back to their original plans that people were comfortable with so it actually flies.

This is supposed to be a grassroots project, not a commercial venture.

-n

[NewEnd]

Well I'm willing to sacrifice months on end going around in the RP blimp.

Seriously. And I'll do it for nothing.

You keep saying this, and yet, I dont think you have done anything to back it up. Why dont you go tell your wife first you are leaving for a year, giving up your company, to go fly in a blimp.

;)

That's what I thought.

go tell your wife, and get back to us on the response.

[NewEnd]

I already am volunteering on it part time, and have other things I am working on so not really interested in making it my life for the next year.


Ohh, I see... but you want them to do it.

[JohnnyWrath]

seriously. i think most of the posters here need to seriously recognize the sacrifice these guys have made so far.

What? Making enough money off of Ron Paul supporters to quit their jobs and start a new business? Damn, I feel so bad for them....how do they manage?

OK, let's get a hold of the blimp company personally, and we can work something out where we send money directly to them....

OR, let's work with the official campaign...

[steph3n]

I already am volunteering on it part time, and have other things I am working on so not really interested in making it my life for the next year.

The current direction the project is going is causing me some serious concern, however. Hopefully they will go back to their original plans that people were comfortable with so it actually flies.

This is supposed to be a grassroots project, not a commercial venture.

-n

Don't give then, it is done for legal reasons.

[slantedview]

Well I'm willing to sacrifice months on end going around in the RP blimp.

Seriously. And I'll do it for nothing.
how gracious of you. how about sacrificing something to actually make the blimp happen before we talk about riding around in it? here's how.

1) stop posting negative crap here.
2) e-mail/pm trevor/elijah and offer your services.

[Lacrosseus]

How much do you think a person should make for devoting their entire life for the next year to make the blimp advertising project a success?

Keep in mind that they have a house payment and car payment to keep up and may/may not have a family to take care of.


If this is going to turn into a full-time paying position -- then open the job up to everyone that has helped promote the blimp... ask them how much they are willing to accept to do the job and then select the lowest cost from among everyon qualified.

[slantedview]

What? Making enough money off of Ron Paul supporters to quit their jobs and start a new business? Damn, I feel so bad for them....how do they manage?

OK, let's get a hold of the blimp company personally, and we can work something out where we send money directly to them....

OR, let's work with the official campaign...
negative crap. post it elsewhere.

[JohnnyWrath]

NewEnd the thing isn't a year long....riding in a blimp does NOT suck...it's not the hardest job in the world....in fact, people would pay for the chance instead of being paid, huh?

[rrroae]

You keep saying this, and yet, I dont think you have done anything to back it up. Why dont you go tell your wife first you are leaving for a year, giving up your company, to go fly in a blimp.

;)

That's what I thought.

go tell your wife, and get back to us on the response.


Just sent a private message to Elijah since he doesn't accept emails.

Can't wait to fly on the blimp!!!

[slantedview]

If this is going to turn into a full-time paying position -- then open the job up to everyone that has helped promote the blimp... ask them how much they are willing to accept to do the job and then select the lowest cost from among everyon qualified.

how about you do two things.

1) go somewhere else
2) when you get there, feel free to start up your own initiative to help the campaign.

[pointe]

If this is going to turn into a full-time paying position -- then open the job up to everyone that has helped promote the blimp... ask them how much they are willing to accept to do the job and then select the lowest cost from among everyon qualified.

That doesn't sound like too bad of an idea.

[slantedview]

Just sent a private message to Elijah since he doesn't accept emails.

Can't wait to fly on the blimp!!!
first step is making it happen.

[rrroae]

NewEnd the thing isn't a year long....riding in a blimp does NOT suck...it's not the hardest job in the world....in fact, people would pay for the chance instead of being paid, huh?


That's what's so amusing.

I guess he hasn't figured it out.

[JohnnyWrath]

nobody has made money. get lost.

OK, how about YOU get lost because you don't agree with me? Make sense? Are you the only one that is allowed an opinion?

Bullshit like people making money off of this and starting companies will be the end of this movement....watch and see.

[NewEnd]

Just sent a private message to Elijah since he doesn't accept emails.

Can't wait to fly on the blimp!!!

Now, the wife. the one who has the real say in whether or not you are bluffing.

I know you are bluffing. So you can stop the charade.

[rrroae]

negative crap. post it elsewhere.

Uh, maybe you should read my posts.

And I've already PM'ed Elijah.

Why the hostility?

[slantedview]

OK, how about YOU get lost because you don't agree with me? Make sense? Are you the only one that is allowed an opinion?

Bullshit like people making money off of this and starting companies will be the end of this movement....watch and see.
ooops, you got me. you're onto us. we're all making lots of money and things have been great, but now that you've uncovered the evil plan, i guess we'll just have to pack it in and hit the road.

hopefully you don't steal our brilliant idea to rip off unsuspecting ron paul supporters and start your own evil profiteering company.

[NewEnd]

NewEnd the thing isn't a year long....riding in a blimp does NOT suck...it's not the hardest job in the world....in fact, people would pay for the chance instead of being paid, huh?

You have no concept of what they are trying to achieve. It could go on until November 4th, 2008, and become a huge part of the campaign, if not a central part.

Like Truman's whistle stop.

[lloydian]

New End - If you are here to defend Elijah and Trevor, your efforts are a complete disaster.

Your mocking attitude would do nothing but give current blimp donors increasing doubts as to sticking with this project as it is currently being implemented.

[slantedview]

Why the hostility?
because you're being disingenuous. it's a mammoth amount of work just to make this happen without having to see posts such as yours belittling the effort that trevor/elijah have made because they'll be having fun riding around in the blimp. i think there's much easier ways to have fun then spend 20 hours days making this crap happen.

[rrroae]

Now, the wife. the one who has the real say in whether or not you are bluffing.

I know you are bluffing. So you can stop the charade.

Put up $5000k and so will I.

Anyone have a suggestion on the best way to make an online wager?

[slantedview]

You have no concept of what they are trying to achieve. It could go on until November 4th, 2008, and become a huge part of the campaign, if not a central part.
the goal is to keep the blimp in the air (minus rest stops) till inauguration :)

[NewEnd]

New End - If you are here to defend Elijah and Trevor, your efforts are a complete disaster.

Your mocking attitude would do nothing but give current blimp donors increasing doubts as to sticking with this project as it is currently being implemented.

I am not mocking them, I am dead serious. If people really think that spending 16-20 hours a day making sure a blimp project that has $1000+ donors, should be a volunteer job, then they should volunteer themselves.

THis Blimp thing could fail, it could succeed, but I would MUCHH rather have some peopel in paid positions running it.

And speaking of which, why aren't people castigating Ron Pauls campaign for having paid employees?

[rrroae]

New End - If you are here to defend Elijah and Trevor, your efforts are a complete disaster.

Your mocking attitude would do nothing but give current blimp donors increasing doubts as to sticking with this project as it is currently being implemented.



It's ok, he's only one person and RP's message can't get sidetracked by one person.

[NewEnd]

Put up $5000k and so will I.

Anyone have a suggestion on the best way to make an online wager?

Have you talked to your wife yet?

I would do that first. talk to her, let her know it could be 2 months to a year, and then let Elijah know she is OK with it. Maybe they will take you seriously.

[slantedview]

Have you talked to your wife yet?

I would do that first. talk to her, let her know it could be 2 months to a year, and then let Elijah know she is OK with it. Maybe they will take you seriously.
Yep. Hopefully Elijah and Trevor can find a place for you (rrroae) in the effort. Good luck.

[rrroae]

because you're being disingenuous. it's a mammoth amount of work just to make this happen without having to see posts such as yours belittling the effort that trevor/elijah have made because they'll be having fun riding around in the blimp. i think there's much easier ways to have fun then spend 20 hours days making this crap happen.

it's freaking ridiculous.

Easy now. I've been doing my best to get people to hold off on their judgement until tommorrow. You know as well as everyone else that there are a couple of sticky points we need to work out.

And if my volunteering to ride the blimp for 3 - 6 months and showing enthusiasm about it belittles Elijah and Trevor,...well, I'll try to act more somber.

[rrroae]

Have you talked to your wife yet?

I would do that first. talk to her, let her know it could be 2 months to a year, and then let Elijah know she is OK with it. Maybe they will take you seriously.

I'm not sure how things are in your neck of the woods but I don't need permission from my wife. Nor do I have to worry if she'll be hear when I get back.

It's called unconditional support and my wife and I practice it.

Not sure why this concept seems so alien to you.

[Dustancostine]

New End - If you are here to defend Elijah and Trevor, your efforts are a complete disaster.

Your mocking attitude would do nothing but give current blimp donors increasing doubts as to sticking with this project as it is currently being implemented.

I am actually starting to wonder how much Newend expects to make off this project.:rolleyes:

[NewEnd]

Yep. Hopefully Elijah and Trevor can find a place for you (rrroae) in the effort. Good luck.


More power to you. go for it. I am glad I made a difference in your life, and I am glad I convinced someone to work tirelessly for the campaign for free.

;)

[yoshimaroka]

That is what has been bugging me though. We have all this grassroots support, so why do we need to circumvent the law? I can just about guarantee you we could get 10,000 people to donate $35.00 each. That would buy the blimp for a month and not require any lawyers or LLCs or dozens of staff.

You buy the blimp through the PAC, tell the company where to fly and have 4 people take a week vacation each to ride on it and make sure it is going where it is supposed to go.

No one has to quit their job, strife is greatly reduced amongst the grassroots, and people don't have to worry about geting the FEC on them.

I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

Exactly. Great points.

There are over 100,000 Ron Paul supporters on the net. getting 10,000 people to donate a mere $35.00 seems extremely possible.

There are also Meetup groups all over the country; people nearest to the Blimp's destination can volunteer one day to ride the blimp. If you're a Ron Paul fanatic, wouldn't want to take a sick day off to ride the Blimp?

[rrroae]

and I am glad I convinced someone to work tirelessly for the campaign for free.

;)


I must say, you did inspire me .

[NewEnd]

I'm not sure how things are in your neck of the woods but I don't need permission from my wife. Nor do I have to worry if she'll be hear when I get back.


Hey, cool. You got a solid relationship. Go for it. Maybe they'll have you driving from location to location setting up porta potties and picnic tables. (im kind of hoping they do the same, to leave mroe seats open for donors on the blimp.)

Im serious... I dont care if you do commit yourself to the project. I think it's great.

I dont really believe you, but I think if its true, that's great.



I am actually starting to wonder how much Newend expects to make off this project.

That is based on the assumption the blimp thing is ascam job in the first lace, then in the second place, it assumes I have anything to do with the Blimp... which I do not.

[slantedview]

Exactly. Great points.

There are over 100,000 Ron Paul supporters on the net. getting 10,000 people to donate a mere $35.00 seems extremely possible.

There are also Meetup groups all over the country; people nearest to the Blimp's destination can volunteer one day to ride the blimp. If you're a Ron Paul fanatic, wouldn't want to take a sick day off to ride the Blimp?
from what i know, the legal advisors including the former FEC chairman recommended setting things up as an advertising company since big donations (greater than 2300) will be needed in order to make the blimp happen.

[rrroae]

Hey, cool. You got a solid relationship. Go for it. Maybe they'll have you driving from location to location setting up porta potties and picnic tables. (im kind of hoping they do the same, to leave mroe seats open for donors on the blimp.)

Im serious... I dont care if you do commit yourself to the project. I think it's great.

I dont really believe you, but I think if its true, that's great.




.

Now your just sweet talking me.

[NewEnd]

Now your just sweet talking me.

Sure am.

But bet your sweet ass honey... I would still call your bluff if we were at a poker table.

[slantedview]

Easy now. I've been doing my best to get people to hold off on their judgement until tommorrow. You know as well as everyone else that there are a couple of sticky points we need to work out.

And if my volunteering to ride the blimp for 3 - 6 months and showing enthusiasm about it belittles Elijah and Trevor,...well, I'll try to act more somber.
obviously volunteering to ride in a blimp belittles nobody. pretending like all they've done is get ready to go on a blimp ride certainly belittles them. and in that respect i say, get lost.

[rrroae]

from what i know, the legal advisors including the former FEC chairman recommended setting things up as an advertising company since big donations (greater than 2300) will be needed in order to make the blimp happen.


How would the legal advisors and the FEC chairman come to the conclusion we'd need donations greater than 2300 to make this happen when we've shown the ability to make millions in a single day averaging around $100 per donor?

[yoshimaroka]

from what i know, the legal advisors including the former FEC chairman recommended setting things up as an advertising company since big donations (greater than 2300) will be needed in order to make the blimp happen.

We'll have to wait and see.

If I'm a former FEC chairman, I wouldn't turn down consulting fees and would probably encourage that route as well.

Playing devil's advocate here

[Dustancostine]

I am not mocking them, I am dead serious. If people really think that spending 16-20 hours a day making sure a blimp project that has $1000+ donors, should be a volunteer job, then they should volunteer themselves.

THis Blimp thing could fail, it could succeed, but I would MUCHH rather have some peopel in paid positions running it.

And speaking of which, why aren't people castigating Ron Pauls campaign for having paid employees?

How about they hire a professional CEO instead of paying themselves? It seems like the focus has shifted from getting Ron Paul elected, to lining their pockets via other people wanting to get Ron Paul elected.

If someone feels that they can get the best value for their money by paying Trevor and Elijah to advertise for them (that is what it is paying, not donating). Then go for it. But that is not what the original deal was about.

Therefore I will withdraw my support for this project. Because I don't think it is a good value, nor do I think it is in the spirit of the Ron Paul Revolution.

What is going to happen next? Is someone going to trademark the backwards love Revolution symbol and charge RP supporters to use it?

[slantedview]

How would the legal advisors and the FEC chairman come to the conclusion we'd need donations greater than 2300 to make this happen when we've shown the ability to make millions in a single day averaging around $100 per donor?

you're asking in the wrong place. check the legal team page on the blimp site and contact them with your vital concern. i'm sure they'll be so happy to hear from you.

[lloydian]

Dustancoastine

I have not made up my mind yet on all of this yet. I have many weaknesses as a human being, however, one of my greatest strenghts is reading people, cutting throught the haze and assessing the big picture correctly.

On a scale of 1 to 10 - 1 completely selfless love for Dr Paul and the movement and 10 being self promotion and personal accolades

my impressions of Trevor, Elijah, and Newend would result in a rating of 6.

Not that a 6 is a disaster but that I would prefer to have people as a 1 or 2 heading up this project. Furthermore my general impression is that they are in over their heads on this and that we need more humble and competent folks heading up this operation.

Unfortunately for us, this is currently not the case. Also unfortunate is that I believe these people do exist in the Ron Paul grassroots and they are in all likelihood not even rare. There are some very bright and experienced business owners behind Ron Paul that could handle this project much better and with out wanting a dime!

[rrroae]

Sure am.

But bet your sweet ass honey... I would still call your bluff if we were at a poker table.


.....You are tempting.

[Dustancostine]

How would the legal advisors and the FEC chairman come to the conclusion we'd need donations greater than 2300 to make this happen when we've shown the ability to make millions in a single day averaging around $100 per donor?

Because they are going to be paid, that is why.

[NewEnd]

How about they hire a professional CEO instead of paying themselves?

Are saying they should pay someone 1-200K a year, to a CEO not involved with the campaign, instead?


It seems like the focus has shifted from getting Ron Paul elected, to lining their pockets via other people wanting to get Ron Paul elected.

That's not what its about... its about creating a for profit PAC that can make money, and continue for a year... maybe even forever as a PAC in the likes of moveon.org. I wonder if they all are volunteers over there.


If someone feels that they can get the best value for their money by paying Trevor and Elijah to advertise for them (that is what it is paying, not donating). Then go for it. But that is not what the original deal was about.

The original idea was about getting a blimp with Ron Paul's name in huge letters in the air, and trying to get it to fly without needing $350,000 in donations every month.


What is going to happen next? Is someone going to trademark the backwards love Revolution symbol and charge RP supporters to use it?
No, but plenty of people are sellign tshirt and caps with the revolution logo... and not donating all of the profit to the campaign.

[NewEnd]

my impressions of Trevor, Elijah, and Newend would result in a rating of 6.



what do you think I am going to get out of this?

Do you have one shred of proof I am involved in the Blimp at all, and am here to ciphon money?

I am a real person BTW, and involved in two meetups, Kitsap county, and Poulsbo meetup.

I have also recently written 20 letters by hand, and sent $100 I dont have to ron Paul on the 5th, and plan to do so again on the 16th, in addition to the $9.60 I have to eat in stamps monday.

I am in college right now, and will be there for the next 3 or 4 years. I am nto here to steal money, and I dont think trevor or Elijah are either. they want this to be a success.... yes, they may get a nice piece on their resume when its all said and done, and for that, I say more power to them.

[rrroae]

Because they are going to be paid, that is why.


No. They somehow came to the conclusion we'd need to set it up as a for profit Corp because they didn't think we could raise the money if we didn't get contributions in excess of $2300per pop.


from what i know, the legal advisors including the former FEC chairman recommended setting things up as an advertising company since big donations (greater than 2300) will be needed in order to make the blimp happen.

[Dustancostine]

Dustancoastine

I have not made up my mind yet on all of this yet. I have many weaknesses as a human being, however, one of my greatest strenghts is reading people, cutting throught the haze and assessing the big picture correctly.

On a scale of 1 to 10 - 1 completely selfless love for Dr Paul and the movement and 10 being self promotion and personal accolades

my impressions of Trevor, Elijah, and Newend would result in a rating of 6.

Not that a 6 is a disaster but that I would prefer to have people as a 1 or 2 heading up this project. Furthermore my general impression is that they are in over their heads on this and that we need more humble and competent folks heading up this operation.

Unfortunately for us, this is currently not the case. Also unfortunate is that I believe these people do exist in the Ron Paul grassroots and they are in all likelihood not even rare. There are some very bright and experienced business owners behind Ron Paul that could handle this project much better and with out wanting a dime!

Great Post.

I do respect Trevor. And I do believe that he truly wants RP elected as bad as anyone else. Just knowing human nature, once someone starts justifying taking money, interest become mixed. What is the goal of the comany? To be profitable or to get RP elected? What happens when there is conflict between those two goals. Is Trevor going to side with promoting RP or making money? What if they are running low on money are they going to meet payroll or are they going to use their last dimes for RP? It is just really disappointing.

[slantedview]

They somehow came to the conclusion we'd need to set it up as a for profit Corp because they didn't think we could raise the money if we didn't get contributions in excess of $2300per pop.
exactly. now you're catching on, just like ron paul.

[rrroae]

Great Post.

I do respect Trevor. And I do believe that he truly wants RP elected as bad as anyone else. Just knowing human nature, once someone starts justifying taking money, interest become mixed. What is the goal of the comany? To be profitable or to get RP elected? What happens when there is conflict between those two goals. Is Trevor going to side with promoting RP or making money? What if they are running low on money are they going to meet payroll or are they going to use their last dimes for RP? It is just really disappointing.


I have confidence they'll address these issues shortly and we can move forward.

Sometimes people just need a little bump to get back on track.

[Jagwarr]

I am in college right now, and will be there for the next 3 or 4 years. I am nto here to steal money, and I dont think trevor or Elijah are either. they want this to be a success.... yes, they may get a nice piece on their resume when its all said and done, and for that, I say more power to them.

What is on the resume of Trevor and Elijah? All I know of Trevor is that I read he never voted before, which is something many will frown upon and that he took someone else's idea and made a website to promote it. I also heard him on the A.J show and to be honest he sounded rather nervous to be a spokesperson.

[NewEnd]

What happens when there is conflict between those two goals. Is Trevor going to side with promoting RP or making money?

lawsuit, breech of contract.

[slantedview]

Great Post.

I do respect Trevor. And I do believe that he truly wants RP elected as bad as anyone else. Just knowing human nature, once someone starts justifying taking money, interest become mixed. What is the goal of the comany? To be profitable or to get RP elected? What happens when there is conflict between those two goals. Is Trevor going to side with promoting RP or making money? What if they are running low on money are they going to meet payroll or are they going to use their last dimes for RP? It is just really disappointing.
the whole point of setting up a company was to allow unrestricted purchases of advertising. individuals purchase their own advertising in increments (minutes). the company CANNOT legally support any candidate as part of its cause.

it's the same as if we all went to some company we found externally that was willing to float a blimp if we each bought individual minutes from them. cumulatively, lots of purchases would keep the blimp in the air.

i'm not sure why this idea is so hard for people here.

[Dustancostine]

No. They somehow came to the conclusion we'd need to set it up as a for profit Corp because they didn't think we could raise the money if we didn't get contributions in excess of $2300per pop.

But when their consulting fees are a part of the amount needed, they want to make sure their gravy train keeps coming in therefore, they will want donors to give the most they can, so that the project can pay the fees. It is only natural, they have a financial stake in the outcome of the project.

(I am talking about the consultants in this instance not Trevor or Elijah)

[slantedview]

What is on the resume of Trevor and Elijah? All I know of Trevor is that I read he never voted before, which is something many will frown upon and that he took someone else's idea and made a website to promote it. I also heard him on the A.J show and to be honest he sounded rather nervous to be a spokesperson.
you're buying advertising from their company, not interviewing them for a job.

[cien750hp]

What is on the resume of Trevor and Elijah? All I know of Trevor is that I read he never voted before, which is something many will frown upon and that he took someone else's idea and made a website to promote it. I also heard him on the A.J show and to be honest he sounded rather nervous to be a spokesperson.

Trevors the one who set up november fifth, rudy's reading list, and the tea party. that alone should be enough fpr anyone to trust him.

[Jagwarr]

you're buying advertising from their company, not interviewing them for a job.

Well no I am not, I am trying to see if it is worth giving them my money especially since they have added a "no refund" clause, which is usally a sign to me to stay away.

[Dustancostine]

the whole point of setting up a company was to allow unrestricted purchases of advertising. individuals purchase their own advertising in increments (minutes). the company CANNOT legally support any candidate as part of its cause.

it's the same as if we all went to some company we found externally that was willing to float a blimp if we each bought individual minutes from them. cumulatively, lots of purchases would keep the blimp in the air.

i'm not sure why this idea is so hard for people here.

What happens if Guliani decides to pay more than the RP supporters? Have you thought about that? I am sure the same right of access laws that apply to newspapers apply to the blimp. Your post makes no sense.

Also a for-profit company can break even instead of making a profit. Also Trevor and Elijah can work for next to nothing.

As far as lawyers and consultants, if you need them, you need them just like you need insurance. But having people making money is mudding the waters.

[hillertexas]

That's okay. Show 'em an unpainted blimp. ;)
All the anxiety is really just a reaction to not seein' "blimp". You show 'em "blimp" and they'll pay for it. You show 'em "unpainted blimp" and they'll pay to get it painted. You show 'em "blimp on the ground" and they'll pay to get it in the air even if they're not thrilled with the artwork. They have ownership in the idea. They just need something they can see.

They need to see "blimp" stat.

BlimpCam

+10000000

[Dustancostine]

you're buying advertising from their company, not interviewing them for a job.

If I am going to pay someone for advertising I deserve to know their qualifications.

[NewEnd]

What happens if Guliani decides to pay more than the RP supporters? Have you thought about that? I am sure the same right of access laws that apply to newspapers apply to the blimp. Your post makes no sense.

Also a for-profit company can break even instead of making a profit. Also Trevor and Elijah can work for next to nothing.

As far as lawyers and consultants, if you need them, you need them just like you need insurance. But having people making money is mudding the waters.

It will still be called the Ron Paul blimp.

And people on the official campaign make money.

[slantedview]

If I am going to pay someone for advertising I deserve to know their qualifications.
well then contact one of them and find out.

there, now you've been relieved of all reasons to post here until then.

[Dustancostine]

Trevors the one who set up november fifth, rudy's reading list, and the tea party. that alone should be enough fpr anyone to trust him.

You mean he setup websites to aid donations on those days. He did not come up with those ideas nor was he the one who spread around the ideas. The grassroots earned RP 4.3 million not Trevor.

[Dustancostine]

well then contact one of them and find out.

there, now you've been relieved of all reasons to post here until then.

I didn't post that for myself. I could care less about their qualifications as I don't think it is a good use of money. I was responding to you idiot post about someone who is interested in donating not needing to know their resumes. You should have just told the original questioner that you did not know their qualifications and that if they contacted T&E they might could find out, instead of being rude.

[lloydian]

QFT Dustancoastine. I have nothing against Trevor but he should with every opportunity he gets with the press - make it clear that it is not him but the movement. I have not gotten that impression ove the last month as I have seen his comments online and when interviewed by the media.

He does seem to want to wallow a little bit in his rise to stardom. this mildly dissapoints me

If Trevor had not set up the sights someone else would have. If Elijah and Trevor did not "head up" the Blimp project someone else would have.

[NewEnd]

We got to trust somebody.

Now we cna give money to CNN and Fox, but we know they will put out hit pieces once they think they have gotten enough money from Ron Paul.

That is a guarantee.

I would much rather the money go to people who have already volunteered quite a bit for the Paul campaign, (and quite successfully, might I add), than have the money go to billboard companies (many of which are subsidiaries of the MSM), and real crooks like CNN and Fox.

Spreading FUD before the details are released is not helpful.

[slantedview]

I didn't post that for myself. I could care less about their qualifications as I don't think it is a good use of money. I was responding to you idiot post about someone who is interested in donating not needing to know their resumes. You should have just told the original questioner that you did not know their qualifications and that if they contacted T&E they might could find out, instead of being rude.
you don't think it's a good use of money so.. you just came here to bitch because you have nothing else to do? mkay, thanks for helping out.

[Jagwarr]

The reason I asked about their resumes is because it sounds like some are suggesting that what they are about to embark on with this project takes some special training and that others here would not be qualified to do the same, thus they need to be with this blimp full time.

Perhaps that is the case, I don't know and that is why I am asking. Do they have degrees in marketing or something? If not I don't fully understand why the project needs dedicated flyers. Others have offered thier time here and I also could offer my time to reduce costs if we were all basicly volunteers. That's all

[hillertexas]

If this is going to turn into a full-time paying position -- then open the job up to everyone that has helped promote the blimp... ask them how much they are willing to accept to do the job and then select the lowest cost from among everyon qualified.

I think this is a great idea

[NewEnd]

The reason I asked about their resumes is because it sounds like some are suggesting that what they are about to embark on with this project takes some special training and that others here would not be qualified to do the same, thus they need to be with this blimp full time.

Perhaps that is the case, I don't know and that is why I am asking. Do they have degrees in marketing or something? If not I don't fully understand why the project needs dedicated flyers. Others have offered thier time here and I also could offer my time to reduce costs if we were all basicly volunteers. That's all

I think I made the point pretty clearly, that one of the qualification is willing to give up your life to commit to the cause.

And this is what many people in the official campaign are being paid to do.

[Dustancostine]

you don't think it's a good use of money so.. you just came here to bitch because you have nothing else to do? mkay, thanks for helping out.

No I came here to hash out my disappointment that the project has changed into a for profit venture. Using donations to aid someone in spreading RP's message via a blimp was a good idea, I can trust such a person to wisely spend the money I am in trusting to them because the only interest they have is in promoting RP. Basically we have the same goals.

But, Blindly giving a someone money and hoping they are going to do the right thing when they are taking a slice of the pie, is not a good use of my money in my opinion because they have contrasting motivations (profit vs. promotion). Their interest are either directly or somewhat in contrast to mine.

--Dustan

[Dustancostine]

I think I made the point pretty clearly, that one of the qualification is willing to give up your life to commit to the cause.

And this is what many people in the official campaign are being paid to do.

I am not trying to be mean, but "give up life" is not good word choice. They are not giving up their life, they are just taking a new job which has different requirements than their former. The poster just wants to know what qualifications they have for this new job that justifies their salary and them getting the job. It seems that their main qualification is that it was their idea (which is legitimate).

Now on the other hand, if they done their project pro bono, that would have been giving something up.

[lloydian]

No I came here to hash out my disappointment that the project has changed into a for profit venture. Using donations to aid someone in spreading RP's message via a blimp was a good idea, I can trust such a person to wisely spend the money I am in trusting to them because the only interest they have is in promoting RP. Basically we have the same goals.

But, Blindly giving a someone money and hoping they are going to do the right thing when they are taking a slice of the pie, is not a good use of my money in my opinion because they have contrasting motivations (profit vs. promotion). Their interest are either directly or somewhat in contrast to mine.

--Dustan

Just looked over Ron Paul Blimp website. - Not happy!!!

They have taken this damn idea and hijacked it for a business purpose. Not one mention on that sight about the grassroots etc etc. But they do have pictures of themsleves and the lawyers and buying sharetimes etc.

DAMN IT This doesn't feel right

[NewEnd]

I am not trying to be mean, but "give up life" is not good word choice. They are not giving up their life, they are just taking a new job which has different requirements than their former. The poster just wants to know what qualifications they have for this new job that justifies their salary and them getting the job. It seems that their main qualification is that it was their idea (which is legitimate).

Now on the other hand, if they done their project pro bono, that would have been giving something up.

I mean like their family life, their professional life, and their life of comfort.

[slantedview]

But, Blindly giving a someone money and hoping they are going to do the right thing when they are taking a slice of the pie, is not a good use of my money in my opinion because they have contrasting motivations (profit vs. promotion). Their interest are either directly or somewhat in contrast to mine.
Kinda like going to get your oil changed and blindly giving your money to the shop hoping they are going to do the right thing and replace your oil when they are taking a slice of the pie. How can they possibly be trusted to give you new oil? It's inconceivable how any company could ever be trusted to do anything. eh?

[hillertexas]

From the blimp site:

"We have formed an advertising company, Liberty Advertising.

Liberty Advertising is selling political advertisements that you can sponsor. Right now we are selling advertising time for Ron Paul, primarily on the Ron Paul Blimp. "

Right now?? What is later?

[slantedview]

http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/HowThisWorks.php

[slantedview]

From the blimp site:

"We have formed an advertising company, Liberty Advertising.

Liberty Advertising is selling political advertisements that you can sponsor. Right now we are selling advertising time for Ron Paul, primarily on the Ron Paul Blimp. "

Right now?? What is later?
legally the company cna't look like they're just selling stuff for ron paul. that won't fly. they have to at least make it appear that they're open to selling ads for any candidate.

it has to be that way.

[NewEnd]

From the blimp site:

"We have formed an advertising company, Liberty Advertising.

Liberty Advertising is selling political advertisements that you can sponsor. Right now we are selling advertising time for Ron Paul, primarily on the Ron Paul Blimp. "

Right now?? What is later?

They have to be very careful how they word things. They do have to let other people buy time... so hopefully there will never be a press release, and this thing will stay hush hush, and most people will have no idea they too can buy time on the blimp.... except individuals like LLepard, who wouldn't mind plunking down 50-100G and buy a few weeks.



Plus, I am sure they will have huge repainting fees to discourage someone wanting to change the blimp

[slantedview]

Plus, I am sure they will have huge repainting fees to discourage someone wanting to change the blimp
exactly :)

why can't everyone understand this as well as you?

[hillertexas]

legally the company cna't look like they're just selling stuff for ron paul. that won't fly. they have to at least make it appear that they're open to selling ads for any candidate.

it has to be that way.


They have to be very careful how they word things. They do have to let other people buy time... so hopefully there will never be a press release, and this thing will stay hush hush, and most people will have no idea they too can buy time on the blimp.... except individuals like LLepard, who wouldn't mind plunking down 50-100G and buy a few weeks.



Plus, I am sure they will have huge repainting fees to discourage someone wanting to change the blimp

oh...interesting.
thanks :)

[JohnnyWrath]

slanted view and new end are spin doctors....it seems that way....they are somehow involved.

[slantedview]

slanted view and new end are spin doctors....it seems that way....they are somehow involved.
i am involved. i donated my time getting the web site up. what have you done to help?

newend is only involved in so much as he's volunteering his time to defend against idiotic comments, such as the type we're seeing from you.

[Dustancostine]

Kinda like going to get your oil changed and blindly giving your money to the shop hoping they are going to do the right thing and replace your oil when they are taking a slice of the pie. How can they possibly be trusted to give you new oil? It's inconceivable how any company could ever be trusted to do anything. eh?

Your exactly right Slanted. Thanks for the analogy. When I choose who to pay to change my oil, I make my decision knowing that that The Quickie Lube's only motivation is profit, my motivation is getting oil changed.

So when deciding whether or not to pay for blimp advertising from Liberty Advertising, I have to consider that their only motivation is profit and mine is promoting Ron Paul. I cannot be fooled into thinking that their motivation is to promote RP.

I have no philosophical problem with Trevor and his blimp company. It is no different from Clear Channel Outdoor Advertising.

The problem is in the bait and switch. We were baited with request for donations to get a grassroots Blimp, now the switch is that professional advertising company is going to sell us blimp advertising, just like we would buy billboard advertising.

As soon as Trevor and Elijah form their company they are no longer grassroots, but MSM.

[JohnnyWrath]

i am involved. i donated my time getting the web site up. what have you done to help?

How much do you get?

[slantedview]

How much do you get?
look up "donated" and "volunteer" in the dictionary.

[JohnnyWrath]

[ Admin - removed name calling - not allowed ]


People who do donate want their money going 100% to Ron Paul, not to start up businesses for opportunists.

[Dustancostine]

Plus, I am sure they will have huge repainting fees to discourage someone wanting to change the blimp

I am not an expert, but I am pretty sure that all political advertising has to be "equal opportunity". If they don't charge RP supporters a painting fee, they can't charge Guliani supporters a painting fee.

Also from the previous post and the link to the blimp site. It says right now they are only selling advertising on the "Ron Paul Blimp". Does that mean there is going to be other blimps in the future? Is the profit made from RP supporters going to help pay to launch a Mike Huckabee blimp? Just questions.

[NewEnd]

slanted view and new end are spin doctors....it seems that way....they are somehow involved.

let me find my post:

here it is



what do you think I am going to get out of this?

Do you have one shred of proof I am involved in the Blimp at all, and am here to ciphon money?

I am a real person BTW, and involved in two meetups, Kitsap county, and Poulsbo meetup.

I have also recently written 20 letters by hand, and sent $100 I dont have to ron Paul on the 5th, and plan to do so again on the 16th, in addition to the $9.60 I have to eat in stamps monday.

I am in college right now, and will be there for the next 3 or 4 years. I am nto here to steal money, and I dont think trevor or Elijah are either. they want this to be a success.... yes, they may get a nice piece on their resume when its all said and done, and for that, I say more power to them.

[slantedview]

Your exactly right Slanted. Thanks for the analogy. When I choose who to pay to change my oil, I make my decision knowing that that The Quickie Lube's only motivation is profit, my motivation is getting oil changed.

So when deciding whether or not to pay for blimp advertising from Liberty Advertising, I have to consider that their only motivation is profit and mine is promoting Ron Paul. I cannot be fooled into thinking that their motivation is to promote RP.

I have no philosophical problem with Trevor and his blimp company. It is no different from Clear Channel Outdoor Advertising.

The problem is in the bait and switch. We were baited with request for donations to get a grassroots Blimp, now the switch is that professional advertising company is going to sell us blimp advertising, just like we would buy billboard advertising.

As soon as Trevor and Elijah form their company they are no longer grassroots, but MSM.
fair enough assessment, but one shouldn't assume that the ONLY reason the switch could have possibly been done was for personal gain. some people just like to think the worst. the real reason has been mentioned here numerous times.

[NewEnd]

I am not an expert, but I am pretty sure that all political advertising has to be "equal opportunity". If they don't charge RP supporters a painting fee, they can't charge Guliani supporters a painting fee.

Maybe, maybe not... I dont know the details, regardless, the blimp is goign to have a ron paul name.... hopefully... wasnt Air Force Ron chosen?

And what is to stop the owners of the company, taking the money made from advertising, to buy mor etime for Ron Paul?

Seriously, would you trust people with the Giuliani campaign to do a good job advertising Ron Paul?

[Dustancostine]

Maybe, maybe not... I dont know the details, regardless, the blimp is goign to have a ron paul name.... hopefully... wasnt Air Force Ron chosen?

And what is to stop the owners of the company, taking the money made from advertising, to buy mor etime for Ron Paul?

Seriously, would you trust people with the Giuliani campaign to do a good job advertising Ron Paul?

I understand. But once they form a for profit company they are no longer part of our grassroots.

What happens if RP loses the primary and doesn't run independent :(? Do they pack up the blimp and go home? Or do they find someone who wants to pay to change the blimp? Then what is happening now is going to fund future nonRP related endevors. It is just something to keep in mind.

[NewEnd]

I understand. But once they form a for profit company they are no longer part of our grassroots.

What happens if RP loses the primary and doesn't run independent :(? Do they pack up the blimp and go home? Or do they find someone who wants to pay to change the blimp? Then what is happening now is going to fund future nonRP related endevors. It is just something to keep in mind.


the company fails... ro it goes on as an advertising company... I really don't care.

I am sure they would rather declare bankruptcy than make it a hillary balloon.

[millerjd]

Look folks, it's called escalation. If you feed the negativity, it's only going to grow. No one is "conning" anyone into anything. I will not be donating unless for some reason, I fall upon more than $2300 minus what I've donated. If you pledged and have changed your mind, no hired goons are going to come after you. There has to be a intermediate channel to funnel this money to the blimp company. There is no other way to do this without infringing on the max personal donation to the actual campaign.

Honestly, we should end replying to reposts of same concerns/problems, especially if by the same person.

The grassroots component is still at large because we, the people organized a fashion to accomplish this goal and backed a business willing to accomplish it for us, including the complex legal issues we are facing, the logistics and the manpower needed to launch a presidential campaign blimp.

From what I've heard from the powers that be, the blimp is coming, like it or not, constructive criticism only need apply, or move on.

[slantedview]

Look folks, it's called escalation. If you feed the negativity, it's only going to grow. No one is "conning" anyone into anything. I will not be donating unless for some reason, I fall upon more than $2300 minus what I've donated. If you pledged and have changed your mind, no hired goons are going to come after you. There has to be a intermediate channel to funnel this money to the blimp company. There is no other way to do this without infringing on the max personal donation to the actual campaign.

Honestly, we should end replying to reposts of same concerns/problems, especially if by the same person.

The grassroots component is still at large because we, the people organized a fashion to accomplish this goal and backed a business willing to accomplish it for us, including the complex legal issues we are facing, the logistics and the manpower needed to launch a presidential campaign blimp.

From what I've heard from the powers that be, the blimp is coming, like it or not, constructive criticism only need apply, or move on.
we're not used to seeing such good posts from new members around here :)

[millerjd]

we're not used to seeing such good posts from new members around here :)

I've been a lurcher for a long time, the whole blimpgate conspiracy is what made me join.

[JohnnyWrath]

What happens if RP loses the primary and doesn't run independent ? Do they pack up the blimp and go home? Or do they find someone who wants to pay to change the blimp?

Trevor has already been talking with other candidates for various positions...good choices in my opinion, but regardless he is already forming a network and a business.

He is welcome to deny this.

I could care less if this experience helps further their careers, but I do care that they are looking to make money to further their own agendas.

[NewEnd]

Trevor has already been talking with other candidates for various positions...

You got proof of this?

[slantedview]

I've been a lurcher for a long time, the whole blimpgate conspiracy is what made me join.
LOL. blimpgate. i like it

[slantedview]

You got proof of this?
sean hannity told him so.

[NewEnd]

slanted view and new end are spin doctors....it seems that way....they are somehow involved.

this was a blatant and false lie. Apparently, JohhnyWrath has no problem making stuff up.

Notice how he didn't even say he thinks I am somehow involved, he just came out plain and said I was.

JohnnyWrath credibility = 0

Pure liar.

[Hook]

Trevor has already been talking with other candidates for various positions...good choices in my opinion, but regardless he is already forming a network and a business.

He is welcome to deny this.

I could care less if this experience helps further their careers, but I do care that they are looking to make money to further their own agendas.

I think we all understand this by now. But, perhaps you and Mark can post it another 200 times, just in case we don't get it yet.

[JohnnyWrath]

New End, it was a guess really....do you even know these people? I mean in real life? I said "seems" that way.

[NewEnd]

New End, it was a guess really....do you even know these people? I mean in real life? I said "seems" that way.

You said it in the affirmative.

What else are you guessing about?

IS anythign you say based in fact? Or is it all just a bunch of paranoid guesses?

You called me a crook.... when you are the one spreading lies and mistruths without fact. I think you need to check yourself.

[McDermit]

this was a blatant and false lie. Apparently, JohhnyWrath has no problem making stuff up.

Notice how he didn't even say he thinks I am somehow involved, he just came out plain and said I was.

JohnnyWrath credibility = 0

Pure liar.actually, dude said it "seems that way," which would indicate that the statement was based on his opinion/observation.

And I have to agree that it does seem that way.

No need to reiterate your previous post defending yourself, I've already read it.

[NewEnd]

actually, dude said it "seems that way," which would indicate that the statement was his opinion.

And I have to agree that it does seem that way.

No need to reiterate your previous post defending yourself, I've already read it.

No, he said it seemed we were spin doctors, he then said, in the affirmative, "they are somehow involved" read it again.

[millerjd]

Dudes - seriously, chill. Just feeding the bears responding to non-sense... Hasn't anyone read comics? Just let it die..

[JohnnyWrath]

I didn't call you a crook...I called Trevor an opportunist who is making money off of Ron Paul supporters...

but whatever, the blimp thing is going to fail, not because I said so, but because it is, and has, been all over the internet for at least a week that Trevor is out for himself.

Nobody trusts him....big deal there are 3-4 people here who back him, there are thousands all over the internet who are wondering what the F^%$?

[NewEnd]

I didn't call you a crook...I called Trevor an opportunist who is making money off of Ron Paul supporters...

but whatever, the blimp thing is going to fail, not because I said so, but because it is, and has, been all over the internet for at least a week that Trevor is out for himself.

Nobody trusts him....big deal there are 3-4 people here who back him, there are thousands all over the internet who are wondering what the F^%$?

And people like you spreading disinformation and lies.

BTW, where is the proof I asked for that Lyman was considering workign for another campaign?