Is this true?

[voytechs]

"Trevor Lyman Set up Ron Paul National Agency Biz?" - FMNN

http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=52059

How did we get from an idea of forming a PAC to a for profit agency that relies on making money off of mailing lists and for other candidates?

[steph3n]

"Trevor Lyman Set up Ron Paul National Agency Biz?" - FMNN

http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=52059

How did we get from an idea of forming a PAC to a for profit agency that relies on making money off of mailing lists and for other candidates?

Actually what is the problem we need something to make a lasting impact!

[Doriath]

Actually what is the problem we need something to make a lasting impact!

Exactly...and that's what it's suggested Lyman might be doing. Sounds like a good idea to me.

[dircha]

If he can setup shop and make a living for himself out of it, more power to him. He seems like a skilled individual, and other candidates are rightly interested in him. I hope he is successful.

But we all know that you can't buy a grassroots campaign of the scope and scale Ron Paul has, and we know there was nothing Lyman himself did to make or break Novemeber 5th. He did very little to promote or market it himself, and there was nothing special about the website. I certainly appreciate his efforts, but it isn't as though his helping other candidates is giving away any of our secrets; we don't have secrets, we have people power.

And personally I will not submit my email address to another fundraising event unless there is a legally binding promise that my email address will not be sold or traded.

[voytechs]

Actually what is the problem we need something to make a lasting impact!

How is making a for profit company going to make an impact on Ron Paul's campaign? I don't get it.

[t3soro]

if he can spread the message and make a living for himself more power to him. that's what the free market is all about. its a win-win situation.

[Mark Rushmore]

It barely matters:

If he sells out he'll be forgotten.
If he carries on he'll [hopefully] be effective.

Let the market carry on, if it is fooled, so be it... we have the power.

[AlexMerced]

It get around a lot of restrictions we'd have with a PAC and Non-Profit, though Trevor if you'd like to hire me, PM me, I'm a graduate who needs a job :)

Now essentially donation amounts arn't an issue cause essentially now your not donating to a Political entity but for-profit agency, meaning donation caps are out the window

[voytechs]

if he can spread the message and make a living for himself more power to him. that's what the free market is all about. its a win-win situation.

Yeah, but he is making a living off a private email list that we all thought would be sacred and not used for other purposes. I guess I'm a little shocked at the fact that the confidence of all the people who pledged would be undermined as so.

[LibertyEagle]

If he is using the email addresses from the fundraisers, then bad on him. I cannot believe any of you people would agree to him doing this. He has badly overstepped his boundaries. :mad:

[AlexMerced]

ummm... a sacred email list... seriously, I sign up for 50 different email lists a day, if someone really wanted thos emails they would be hard to find by just looking at forum profile or a google search, seriously.

Ok, He's never used the email list for non-RP reasons, and apolgized for the RRL mailing, he's resolved not do it again and he's a sincere RP supporter.

Plus, do you want the blimp or not.

Plus no where does it say he's using any email addresses for anything... jesus you guys are quick to crucify

Again, Trevor has establish seperate mailing lists for each fundraiser, and I see no reason why he wouldn't continue to do so.

[voytechs]

If he is using the email addresses from the fundraisers, then bad on him. I cannot believe any of you people would agree to him doing this. He has badly overstepped his boundaries. :mad:

Now Trevor hasn't used the email for any other purpose. The reason I asked this question because the article in FMNN suggests he is planing on using the list for other purposes and candidates, I'm assuming this is from some kind of interview with him. So lets not jump to conclusions too quickly and simply ascertain which direction this is going.

[ggibson1]

I honored my pledge and hopefully everyone else will as well...


For those that were bushies or just didnt pay attention before... I hung out at the anti-Bush sites over the past several years and they did a really amazing job at starting organizations like moveon.org etc.. which have been doing everything from fighting court battles to getting people elected at many levels of government...

I believe this is what they are attempting to do... i.e. the Blimp is just the begining... they are just getting started and are going to work towards a true long term Ron Paul Revolution after Paul gets in the WhiteHouse.

This takes more than just one guy with a website. Eventually it will require many many full time people.

Instead of being suspicious realize that we are in this for the long haul... not just a few stunts here and there and when Paul becomes president pretend that nothing else needs to be done.

We need a long term organized infrastructure and this appears to be coming together in part with these Trevor people...

[alexpasch]

I think it's more about creating a network whereby grassroots can be more effective. By "other candidates' I don't think they refer to Rudy or Hillary but rather those running for lower offices that have Paul's views.

Real change will require changes to officials elected across all levels of government, not just the presidency.

[AlexMerced]

Now Trevor hasn't used the email for any other purpose. The reason I asked this question because the article in FMNN suggests he is planing on using the list for other purposes and candidates, I'm assuming this is from some kind of interview with him. So lets not jump to conclusions too quickly and simply ascertain which direction this is going.

My assumption is that he was being vague so the FEC doesn't try to get involved on a corporation functioning as a PAC

[Visual]

I don't have a problem with him making a for-profit, especially if it allowed the Ron Paul Revolution to continue to other elections. He should only use email's given to him specifically for that purpose. Just don't use emails given for Nov 5th, 11th or tea party, because it's wrong. At the end of all this, send them an email inviting them to sign up for the for-profit, but don't volunteer them without their permission.

[AlexMerced]

I honored my pledge and hopefully everyone else will as well...


For those that were bushies or just didnt pay attention before... I hung out at the anti-Bush sites over the past several years and they did a really amazing job at starting organizations like moveon.org etc.. which have been doing everything from fighting court battles to getting people elected at many levels of government...

I believe this is what they are attempting to do... i.e. the Blimp is just the begining... they are just getting started and are going to work towards a true long term Ron Paul Revolution after Paul gets in the WhiteHouse.

This takes more than just one guy with a website. Eventually it will require many many full time people.

Instead of being suspicious realize that we are in this for the long haul... not just a few stunts here and there and when Paul becomes president pretend that nothing else needs to be done.

We need a long term organized infrastructure and this appears to be coming together in part with these Trevor people...


That's why i created the Liberty Independence Alliance in my sig, i will in the future be offer prizes to people for writing Liberty themed Blogs and videos in the future. I posted the first official discussion on Iran today, check it out :).

[LibertyEagle]

Again, Trevor has establish seperate mailing lists for each fundraiser, and I see no reason why he wouldn't continue to do so.

He has also badly overstepped his boundaries on more than one occasion and "I see not reason why he wouldn't continue to do so."

[european]

Yeah, but he is making a living off a private email list that we all thought would be sacred and not used for other purposes. I guess I'm a little shocked at the fact that the confidence of all the people who pledged would be undermined as so.

i think this is the wrong way to look at it.
i feel that it is him creating an environment where all US citizens can buy efforts instead of donating. This means that there are no rules like with donations. The guy has started a company for the good of the cause!!! :D
now how awesome is that?! :D
instead of buying adds at the regular MSM, you can buy 'airtime' with the blimp. It is a move of a genius if you ask me!
Next to that, if all goes well, and supporters do buy loads of 'airtime' it should be wise even if he gets himself on the payroll of the newly founded company. That would mean he can work fulltime for the Ron Paul R3VOLution for an endless time. Also as pointed out before very well by ggibson1, it is about creating positions for ourselves, so we can get influencial outside the normal government aswell. A revolution can't be channeled in politics only. It has to reach out in more aspects of society :D

[AlexMerced]

I don't know, I'm a music promoter as well, and from that perspective he seems to be making the right decsions from my perspective.

[Austin]

I have an idea.. Let's wait for the official word from Trevor himself?

Eh, eh?

[LibertyEagle]

I don't know, I'm a music promoter as well, and from that perspective he seems to be making the right decsions from my perspective.

There's that word again. "My". The very same perspective that Trevor uses when he makes unilateral decisions for all of the grassroots.

[AlexMerced]

I have an idea.. Let's wait for the official word from Trevor himself?

Eh, eh?

+1

[steph3n]

He has also badly overstepped his boundaries on more than one occasion and "I see not reason why he wouldn't continue to do so."

i don't see how he overstepped honestly he was getting donations to the campaign the goalis to get ron paul elected and all the donations went to the campaign!

[voytechs]

ummm... a sacred email list... seriously, I sign up for 50 different email lists a day, if someone really wanted thos emails they would be hard to find by just looking at forum profile or a google search, seriously.

Ok, He's never used the email list for non-RP reasons, and apolgized for the RRL mailing, he's resolved not do it again and he's a sincere RP supporter.

Plus, do you want the blimp or not.

Plus no where does it say he's using any email addresses for anything... jesus you guys are quick to crucify

Again, Trevor has establish seperate mailing lists for each fundraiser, and I see no reason why he wouldn't continue to do so.

Now, I'm not jumping to conclusions. I've read the blimp site and yes I want a blimp, really really badly. The FNMM article I read sheds a totally different light on this and that is what I was asking, not trying to flame Trevor.

And the article specifically says about using the emailing list to solicit for other candidates. You did not provide a good answer to my question but another user above has, and I think I'm satisfied.


i think this is the wrong way to look at it.
i feel that it is him creating an environment where all US citizens can buy efforts instead of donating. This means that there are no rules like with donations. The guy has started a company for the good of the cause!!!
now how awesome is that?!
instead of buying adds at the regular MSM, you can buy 'airtime' with the blimp. It is a move of a genius if you ask me!
Next to that, if all goes well, and supporters do buy loads of 'airtime' it should be wise even if he gets himself on the payroll of the newly founded company. That would mean he can work fulltime for the Ron Paul R3VOLution for an endless time. Also as pointed out before very well by ggibson1, it is about creating positions for ourselves, so we can get influencial outside the normal government aswell. A revolution can't be channeled in politics only. It has to reach out in more aspects of society

I can agree with that. I think the FMNN article is misleading and really paints the wrong picture.

[voytechs]

He has also badly overstepped his boundaries on more than one occasion and "I see not reason why he wouldn't continue to do so."

I think you are wrong. At least I haven't seen any circumstance for this. He did sent out email to the 11/5 list, but why wouldn't he. He was promoting the TeaParty.

Article in FNMM just shocked me, I guess and I couldn't really believe it, that is why I'm asking the forum here.

[steph3n]

I think you are wrong. At least I haven't seen any circumstance for this. He did sent out email to the 11/5 list, but why wouldn't he. He was promoting the TeaParty.

Article in FNMM just shocked me, I guess and I couldn't really believe it, that is why I'm asking the forum here.

FNMM has reported bogus crap many times, I'd throw baby powder all over their journalistic standards.

[AlexMerced]

wouldn't you want to throw something more vile like itching power or ovalteen

[FireofLiberty]

Seriously, though, this is FMNN. They aren't very reliable. I've been burned too many times by their reporting bad information to take anything they say as the gospel.

[steph3n]

wouldn't you want to throw something more vile like itching power or ovalteen

I am not violent baby powder or that nasty bleached flour maybe after a couple water balloons :D

[AlexMerced]

how about we teabag them!!! TEA PARTY!!!

[justinc.1089]

I don't get why you're being so critical of Trevor. The man has proven he is at least to some degree not power-hungry or anything like that by changing things that the grassroots asked to be changed.

Rememeber the whole Vendetta issue on the 5th? If I remember correctly Trevor was in favor of keeping the Vendetta videos on the site, but since some people including myself felt that was a bad idea he took them down.

I feel confident Trevor will listen to the grassroots and not do something the grassroots is collectively against.

And if he seeks out a political career of some type as a result of being given credit for Nov.5th in the media so what? Everyone needs a job. Personally I'm not sure I could work to help other typical politicians and sleep at night but I don't know his situation, and its his decision if he does make a career with that.

But I doubt thats the case.

[AlexMerced]

yeah, people started asking for a more centralized grassroots, and now that we have someone who kind of srves that roll, people get pissed it wasn't them. A void was there, and he filled it, and he did a good job it.

[paulitics]

This is not a bad idea. Essentially, I think we all need to consider forming a media company, to take on corruption. The old media has really betrayed the republic. I am not rich, but I would pay $50 a month to such company, as long as it is liberty related, and a counter to corruption. If we can get a couple thousand pledges for this, we can certainly start somehow. The appropriate conduits and channels for this, can be etched out, but this is something we need to consider.

[steph3n]

This is not a bad idea. Essentially, I think we all need to consider forming a media company, to take on corruption. The old media has really betrayed the republic. I am not rich, but I would pay $50 a month to such company, as long as it is liberty related, and a counter to corruption. If we can get a couple thousand pledges for this, we can certainly start somehow. The appropriate conduits and channels for this, can be etched out, but this is something we need to consider.


EXACTLY!!!

[freedominnumbers]

I'm thinking Ron Paul Republican talk radio programs.

I bet a lot (most) of us listen to talk radio.

[AlexMerced]

Trevor has been a great resource in helping us organize some of our biggest scale ideas, I rather not lose such a resource cause we alienated him, it'd be no better than the treatment of Ron paul by the republican party.

[voytechs]

This is not a bad idea. Essentially, I think we all need to consider forming a media company, to take on corruption. The old media has really betrayed the republic. I am not rich, but I would pay $50 a month to such company, as long as it is liberty related, and a counter to corruption. If we can get a couple thousand pledges for this, we can certainly start somehow. The appropriate conduits and channels for this, can be etched out, but this is something we need to consider.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=44981

[Chester Copperpot]

"Trevor Lyman Set up Ron Paul National Agency Biz?" - FMNN

http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=52059

How did we get from an idea of forming a PAC to a for profit agency that relies on making money off of mailing lists and for other candidates?

I dont think Free Market News has been accurate about ANYTHING related to Ron Paul...

[Jodi]

If he can setup shop and make a living for himself out of it, more power to him. He seems like a skilled individual, and other candidates are rightly interested in him. I hope he is successful.

But we all know that you can't buy a grassroots campaign of the scope and scale Ron Paul has, and we know there was nothing Lyman himself did to make or break Novemeber 5th. He did very little to promote or market it himself, and there was nothing special about the website. I certainly appreciate his efforts, but it isn't as though his helping other candidates is giving away any of our secrets; we don't have secrets, we have people power.

And personally I will not submit my email address to another fundraising event unless there is a legally binding promise that my email address will not be sold or traded.

I think the idea is a good one. I believe there are a bunch of us in the grassroots that are likely to get into politics after this election and that may be what the motive is.

[AlexMerced]

if we all bought stock in this company I think it'd be rpetty sweet, Liberty Stocks

[tmg19103]

This is why I used my "spam" yahoo email address to sign-up for this. I don't even check it, but I wanted to help get the pledges up.

I personally would hope Trevor will destroy this email database. Otherwise, thousands of people who just signed up to help RP will be getting a LOT of spam.

I own an online dating site and have millions of email addresses. It says when they sign up that their emails will remian private and not be sold or used for anything other than notifications from my dating site by others who are interested in them or for billing/profile issues - and when they delete their profile they will never get site related email/spam attempting to get them to join again.

[therealjjj77]

"For-Profit" is simply a tax term and status recognized by the government. Take it with a grain of salt.

[lastnymleft]

This is not a bad idea. Essentially, I think we all need to consider forming a media company, to take on corruption. The old media has really betrayed the republic. I am not rich, but I would pay $50 a month to such company, as long as it is liberty related, and a counter to corruption. If we can get a couple thousand pledges for this, we can certainly start somehow. The appropriate conduits and channels for this, can be etched out, but this is something we need to consider.

It's being done. Perhaps not such an intense US focus as you had envisaged, but it's early days, and already they've done heaps. There's big dollars required for something like what you are talking about. A lot of infrastructure, etc. Your $50/month would be much appreciated, I'm sure.

https://therealnews.com/web/index.php

[max]

the market will decide.

If Trevor builds a viable lasting organization that gets things done....he will make money with my blessings.

If not, his donors will dry up..

[lastnymleft]

"For-Profit" is simply a tax term and status recognized by the government. Take it with a grain of salt.

Calling it "simply a tax term" is overly simplistic. It is also a legal structure that allows profits to be generated and distributed to stockholders in the corporation, rather than being retained within the entity for carrying out its Objects/Purposes, which would be the case with a not-for-profit. Plus, on eventual dissolution of the entity, assets can be distributed to stockholders, rather than being passed on to like-minded entities with similar Objects/Purposes. Plus, Objects/Purposes act to constrain the activities of the entity to what is within the Objects.


Some professional fund-raisers charge 30-40% off the top of the amount they raise. By the time the entity to where the money goes handles its own overheads, there's often little that trickles down to the desired project. Transparency is key to ensuring that donations are going to where they should be allocated, but with a for-profit enterprise, there is no requirement for such transparency. None of this may be relevant to what Trevor is doing. But we can't tell yet.

Forming a for-profit entity is Trevor's right (though use of the email lists is debatable), but if he is expecting the grassroots to get behind whatever he's doing, it would probably be prudent for him to keep them informed, and bring them along "with" him, rather than just expecting them to blindly follow at some later point.

That said, I have no particular opinion on the current circumstances. At this point.

[ronpaulyourmom]

I'm sure it will be very easy to unsubscribe from the list, assuming you don't have to re-opt-in for whatever comes next anyway.

I think a little chilling out is in order.

[conner_condor]

Thats why you make a junk email. And you have a personal one. I am sure we all have a few junk emails and a private one also.We all learned this from a while back.

[kotetu]

Now Trevor hasn't used the email for any other purpose. The reason I asked this question because the article in FMNN suggests he is planing on using the list for other purposes and candidates, I'm assuming this is from some kind of interview with him. So lets not jump to conclusions too quickly and simply ascertain which direction this is going.

We'll need to pack the senate and house with libertarians and other like-minded people to get things rolling. Don't forget that. Ron Paul is fighting to restore checks and balances. When he's president, he won't immediately declare martial law, suspend the congress, and direct the judiciary to repeal the Patriot Act, MCA, WPA, etc. It's not the kind of man he is. :)

[EvilNight]

Trevor has already shown that he is one of the good guys.

This is a free country. If Trevor thinks he sees an opportunity to create a campaign company of some kind that can help bridge the gap between the Internet and traditional media, and bring online and offline Americans closer together, so much the better for all of us.

He's new at it, he'll make mistakes, no big deal.

To take the long view for a moment, think of it like this. If Ron is elected, there is a high probability that Congress is going to lock horns with Ron on every issue - after all, most of Congress is bought and paid for by corporations.

If that happens, we won't make any progress. Two years into Ron's presidency, we'll have an election cycle and an opportunity to vote OUT a lot of the corporate shills, and vote IN a lot of pro-Constitutional candidates.

IF we can find those candidates. IF we can get the word out about them. And what would you need to accomplish that more efficiently than we have so far? Exactly the kind of company Trevor seems to be tinkering with.

It's a good thing. I hope he succeeds. I wish him well trying to herd cats. There are few jobs more difficult.

[American]

I would need to see some details on how much money is going to make off this campaign. But I dont know Trevor, and I would never donate money to him not that I dont think that he deserves some credit but money is tight for me and I only donate to the official www.ronpaul2008.com website.

At least this news is made public but the timing with everything thats going on just isnt good. This could get spun into something negative in the media.

[Bradley in DC]

How is making a for profit company going to make an impact on Ron Paul's campaign? I don't get it.

One, it can sustain Trevor's efforts to do what the official campaign can't.
Two, it gives us an infrastructure to move the rEVOLution beyond one race.

[me3]

He has also badly overstepped his boundaries on more than one occasion and "I see not reason why he wouldn't continue to do so."
Then please just unsubscribe and let the free market decide for themselves.


I have an idea.. Let's wait for the official word from Trevor himself?
I'm tired of these rational, calm and fair ideas. Stop it. Our greatest strength is day dreaming, cutting each other down and refusing to work as a group. :D

[LibertyEagle]

Then please just unsubscribe and let the free market decide for themselves.


What you are seeing is the free market expressing their first amendment right and asking a question.

There are several points of clarification that are needed on this new company of Trevor's. His actions can impact everything the grassroots has done thus far, either positively or negatively, depending on said clarification.

I will continue to ask questions until Trevor is forthcoming with the answers.:)