Banning is the new black in the Liberty Movement [Archive]

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IanCioffi

07-02-2014, 08:18 AM

Apparently banning people is all the rage in the Liberty movement.

It started with Jesse Benton banning Adam Kokesh from the Ron Paul Rally at the Sun Dome in Tampa Bay back in 2012.

This past Spring you had Chris Cantwell calling for Cathy Reisenwitz to be banned from speaking at LibertyFest NYC.

Most recently...

(Cont. reading here > http://www.libertychat.com/2014/07/banning-new-black-liberty-movement/ (http://www.libertychat.com/2014/07/banning-new-black-liberty-movement/)

erowe1

07-02-2014, 08:20 AM

I'm not gonna click the link. But as for the thread title, so what?

And how does something that happens occasionally, and always has happened occasionally, qualify as "all the rage"?

jbauer

07-02-2014, 08:30 AM

thoughtomator

07-02-2014, 08:59 AM

I have no problem with identifying bad seeds and showing them the door. They exist, so you may as well deal realistically and effectively with them.

chudrockz

07-02-2014, 09:04 AM

I have no problem with identifying bad seeds and showing them the door. They exist, so you may as well deal realistically and effectively with them.

Are you a "bad seed"? ;)

Tod

07-02-2014, 09:05 AM

There are many parts to the "Liberty Movement" Each one has to pick its battles. In Ron Paul's case of not having Kokesh at Tampa...IT FRICKING RON PAULS event. He can have or not have whomever the F he wants. Same could be said for libertyfest NYC.

More on Kokesh, I really like the guy. I attended the Tampa rally. But would you honestly want a soon to be felon on stage talking to your group? Look at all the BS over the southern avenger for Rand's campaign.

That sounds like all of us. You make it sounds as though someone who is a felon is necessarily a bad person.

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594032556

http://harveysilverglate.com/portals/0/3felonies_mini.jpg

presence

07-02-2014, 09:08 AM

But would you honestly want a soon to be felon on stage talking to your group?

1 of every 40 US adults are "felons"; its practically a right of passage these days.

JK/SEA

07-02-2014, 09:19 AM

There are many parts to the "Liberty Movement" Each one has to pick its battles. In Ron Paul's case of not having Kokesh at Tampa...IT FRICKING RON PAULS event. He can have or not have whomever the F he wants. Same could be said for libertyfest NYC.

More on Kokesh, I really like the guy. I attended the Tampa rally. But would you honestly want a soon to be felon on stage talking to your group? Look at all the BS over the southern avenger for Rand's campaign.

pretty damn sure all the founders would be in prison today, so whats your fuckin' point again?...

and yes, i am comparing Adam to the founders BECAUSE i'm ...again...pretty sure Adam would be a point man for George...Washington...

pcosmar

07-02-2014, 09:22 AM

But would you honestly want a soon to be felon on stage talking

wow,, :eek:

soon to be felon.. Are you referring to precrime? Or does someone have infallible powers of foretelling the future?

Or is it that we are all just felons waiting to be labeled as such??

Ron Paul had nothing to do with Adam being banned.. Just as he had nothing to do with Paul Garfield being Fired.

He knew nothing about it till after the fact. Ron Paul did not run his campaign.. he simply did not. It was run by others.

ItsTime

07-02-2014, 09:29 AM

Wait, you are telling me someone advocating violence was banned from Porcfest? Good.

pcosmar

07-02-2014, 09:38 AM

Wait, you are telling me someone advocating violence was banned from Porcfest? Good.

Nope. Someone advocating the 2nd Amendment ..

Someone who had the audacity to speak of the reality of the purpose of the 2nd Amendment..

cajuncocoa

07-02-2014, 09:40 AM

http://i.imgur.com/A3hB8.jpg

JK/SEA

07-02-2014, 09:48 AM

http://i.imgur.com/A3hB8.jpg

just noticed...that 'woman' looks like Harry Reid...or his sister....

Ronin Truth

07-02-2014, 10:02 AM

1 of every 40 US adults are "felons"; its practically a right of passage these days.

More felons, fewer voters, I'm a fan.:D

pcosmar

07-02-2014, 10:05 AM

More felons, fewer voters, I'm a fan.:D

You are confused.
Felons vote.

I could even run for office.. (if I wanted to waste resources on such)

Keith and stuff

07-02-2014, 10:17 AM

Chris Cantwell is correct. Sometimes it makes sense for private groups to ban people from attending in person. Stand with Cantwell in support of banning people from private events, it's the free market solution.

PaulConventionWV

07-02-2014, 10:29 AM

Are you a "bad seed"? ;)

It could be any one of us. Maybe you're the bad seed.

pcosmar

07-02-2014, 10:31 AM

Chris Cantwell is correct. Sometimes it makes sense for private groups to ban people from attending in person. Stand with Cantwell is support of banning people from private events, it's the free market solution.

I don't think banning ideas (or people with opinions) is in any way Free.

If they are dumb,, let the Market determine that.

Cantwell was banned over the "Legitimate use of Force"

He was calling for someone else to be banned because she called libertarians "Racist"...

Kokesh was banned because of a personal dislike by someone in a position of power.

Let the ideas be presented and either accepted or rejected.

Banning just stifles discussion.

Keith and stuff

07-02-2014, 10:37 AM

I don't think banning ideas (or people with opinions) is in any way Free.

It is the free exercise of the right of property. The right to property, being it yourself, something you own or something you rent, is the most important and main right people have. Ron Paul and Chris Cantwell were invoking this sacred right when they were advocating for private association.

PaulConventionWV

07-02-2014, 10:47 AM

That sounds like all of us. You make it sounds as though someone who is a felon is necessarily a bad person.

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594032556

http://harveysilverglate.com/portals/0/3felonies_mini.jpg

Thanks. Just ordered the book. Maybe it'll give me some insight into staying clear of government trickery, including police.

PaulConventionWV

07-02-2014, 10:50 AM

Chris Cantwell is correct. Sometimes it makes sense for private groups to ban people from attending in person. Stand with Cantwell is support of banning people from private events, it's the free market solution.

They can do what they want. I personally don't think banning someone is the solution, but if it floats their boat, then they can have at it. I'll steer clear of this "free market solution".

Keith and stuff

07-02-2014, 10:56 AM

They can do what they want. I personally don't think banning someone is the solution, but if it floats their boat, then they can have at it. I'll steer clear of this "free market solution".

For use by yourself or of event's that do it? I know Ron Paul did it at his event in FL. I stand up for Ron Paul's right to ban people. I even still attended the event. Though, I also stand up for your right to not ban people :)

Petar

07-02-2014, 11:00 AM

"Banning" is a verb, "black" is an adjective...

Ronin Truth

07-02-2014, 11:02 AM

You are confused.
Felons vote.

I could even run for office.. (if I wanted to waste resources on such) When did that happen? It didn't used to be that way.
Those little naps do wonders.

Felon voting rights

Restoring Voting Rights to Former Felons (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/felon-voting/340-restoring-voting-rights-to-former-felons.html)

The story of American democracy is often told as the steady expansion of voting, but history has not yet caught up with one group—former felons. In the early American political system, the right to vote was reserved for white males over the age of 21 who owned land. In 1920, after the passage of the 19th Amendment, it was extended to women nationwide. The right to vote was technically extended to African-Americans in 1868 with the passage of the 14th Amendment and effectively enforced with the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In 1971, Congress lowered the legal voting age to 18. Yet, in all but two states, citizens with felony convictions are prohibited from voting either permanently or temporarily. The United States is the only country that permits permanent disenfranchisement of felons even after completion of their sentences.

Policies on felony re-enfranchisement among the 50 states are so inconsistent as to create confusion among, not only those former offenders who wish to regain the right to vote, but also the very officials charged with implementing the laws. The result is a network of misinformation that discourages some legally eligible voters from registering to vote and places undue restrictions on others during the registration process. Former offenders who are unaware of their state’s restrictions may slip through, register, vote, and in doing so, unwittingly commit a new crime.

Fair and consistent felony re-enfranchisement laws can contribute to the rehabilitation process, and reduce the harmful impact on low-income and minority communities where a disproportionately high number of individuals are disenfranchised due to felony convictions. The right to vote helps to foster a sense of community for those who feel disconnected and unfairly excluded from civic participation. Priority must be given to developing a nationwide policy that allows for reinstatement of voting rights, as well as education of former offenders regarding restoration procedures.

http://projectvote.org/felon-voting.html

Son of a gun, learn something new every day. ;) :)

PaulConventionWV

07-02-2014, 11:03 AM

For use by yourself or of event's that do it? I know Ron Paul did it at his event in FL. I stand up for Ron Paul's right to ban people. I even still attended the event. Though, I also stand up for your right to not ban people :)

Sure, whatever. I don't think I would do it, but Ron Paul can do it if he wants.

PaulConventionWV

07-02-2014, 11:04 AM

When did that happen? It didn't used to be that way.
Those little naps do wonders.

http://projectvote.org/felon-voting.html

Son of a gun, learn something new every day. ;) :)

A felon in federal prison almost beat Barack Obama in the Democratic Primaries in West Virginia in 2012.

pcosmar

07-02-2014, 11:05 AM

I know Ron Paul did it at his event in FL.

No. He did not.

His staff did,, the same staff that lost his election.

Not an example I would chose to follow.

I hope this is a learning experience for the folks there. It is likely going to bite them in the ass.
They can either learn from that of die of the infection.

ZENemy

07-02-2014, 11:07 AM

One result of banning people and their ideas is having 41,000 Christian denominations.

Do we really want 50,000 versions of the "freedom movement" because if so, keep banning people and their ideas.

cajuncocoa

07-02-2014, 11:08 AM

It is the free exercise of the right of property. The right to property, being it yourself, something you own or something you rent, is the most important and main right people have. Ron Paul and Chris Cantwell were invoking this sacred right when they were advocating for private association.
I tend to agree with the way you're framing this. But at the same time, many people on this site are fond of saying that someone who supports you 80% of the time is a "friend", not "foe". Therefore, I think the conclusion to draw from the discussion on this thread is that it's perfectly within someone's right to ban a "friend" from an event....but it's a toss-up whether it's the smart thing to do.

cajuncocoa

07-02-2014, 11:09 AM

Ronin Truth

07-02-2014, 11:13 AM

A felon in federal prison almost beat Barack Obama in the Democratic Primaries in West Virginia in 2012. Going from inmate to candidate seems like a smaller step to take. I guess the pols are getting antsy, desperate and concerned about the continuing lower voter turn-outs over time.

asurfaholic

07-02-2014, 11:15 AM

I don't have a problem with an organization banning people who specifically would run against the goals of the said event. I imagine a church holding a event, but knowing the little guy over there will create a stage for himself and proclaim a different message, so they ban him from even coming. So what church wants an atheist using the church event as an opportunity to preach an opposing message?

I don't believe Adam Kokesh is bad or anti liberty, but he is a public character, and some people may not want HIM becoming the spokesman of THEM.

Its like not long ago my daughters birthday i was in a pickle. Long lost family members reuniting, and my mom and aunt were trying to use the birthday party to stage the reunion. I love my family, but my daughters birthday was the focus and reason for the day, so I refused to allow anyone involved in the reunion to attend, even my mother- especially once she let it be known that she was coming and might have you know who with her. I said no. She was sour about it, but it was my choice, my event, and my rules.

This thread reminds me of that.

tod evans

07-02-2014, 11:20 AM

There seems to be so much butt-hurt and attitude surrounding this event called porkfest that even if I were closer I wouldn't choose to associate with so much strife..

I hope everyone there has fun, I will out here in the sticks floating a quiet and serene river where there's no bickering...

pcosmar

07-02-2014, 11:21 AM

Going from inmate to candidate seems like a smaller step to take. I guess the pols are getting antsy, desperate and concerned about the continuing lower voter turn-outs over time.

It was pushed in the news for a while.. Most states have some manner or method of partial restoration of Rights,,some do not.

But the big push was to get convicts the right to vote, (though it was not worded that way)

Some consistency among the states would be good. A mandatory Restoration of Rights on completion of Sentence would be better.

but mostly it was an attempt by the "Ds" to fill voting rolls in their areas by letting Prisoners vote.

but that is another issue.

jbauer

07-02-2014, 12:04 PM

They are if you are trying to get elected to high office. I've got absolutely no problem with what Adam chose to do, but in doing so you gotta face the consequences.

That sounds like all of us. You make it sounds as though someone who is a felon is necessarily a bad person.

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594032556

http://harveysilverglate.com/portals/0/3felonies_mini.jpg

jbauer

07-02-2014, 12:08 PM

chudrockz

07-02-2014, 12:10 PM

It could be any one of us. Maybe you're the bad seed.

That was exactly my point.

chudrockz

07-02-2014, 12:14 PM

One result of banning people and their ideas is having 41,000 Christian denominations.

Do we really want 50,000 versions of the "freedom movement" because if so, keep banning people and their ideas.

This whole debate reminds me of a scene from the movie "The Patriot." I haven't seen it in quite some time but if I remember right Mel Gibson's character and his son are running around recruiting folks for the militia. They go into a bar, and everyone's drunk and rowdy, and his son says something like "Are you sure these are the sort we need?" And he bellows out something like "God save King George!" and they exit rapidly while a bunch of knives hit the door. Then he says "These are EXACTLY the sort we need."

ItsTime

07-02-2014, 12:39 PM

Nope. Someone advocating the 2nd Amendment ..

Someone who had the audacity to speak of the reality of the purpose of the 2nd Amendment..

The 2-A was created to kill postal workers?

pcosmar

07-02-2014, 01:10 PM

pcosmar

07-02-2014, 01:17 PM

The 2-A was created to kill postal workers?

No.. It was to kill government agents when they transgress against a free people.

It is THE check on Government.

The second Amendment was to insure that the people would have the ability to say NO,, and to back that with deadly force.

And I have not heard of armed assaults by postal workers,, and they are not driving around in armed assault vehicles yet.

If they do,, then yes,, kill them. And keep killing them till they quit that shit.

PaulConventionWV

07-02-2014, 01:28 PM

That was exactly my point.

Where were you when this thread started?

Also, I'm going to need to see 3 forms of RPF ID.

otherone

07-02-2014, 02:19 PM

You are confused.
Felons vote.

...but it will cost you $15 each...

purplechoe

07-02-2014, 02:39 PM

There are many parts to the "Liberty Movement" Each one has to pick its battles. In Ron Paul's case of not having Kokesh at Tampa...IT FRICKING RON PAULS event. He can have or not have whomever the F he wants. Same could be said for libertyfest NYC.

More on Kokesh, I really like the guy. I attended the Tampa rally. But would you honestly want a soon to be felon on stage talking to your group? Look at all the BS over the southern avenger for Rand's campaign.

I have doubts that Ron Paul was aware what the likes of Jesse Benton were up to behind the scenes. It seems like if he was, he would be a hypocrite which says one thing and does another. I doubt that he was aware of what the likes of Benton and Collins who actually disagree with Ron Paul were up to behind his back.

And he wasn't a felon back then yet...

purplechoe

07-02-2014, 02:45 PM

I have no problem with identifying bad seeds and showing them the door. They exist, so you may as well deal realistically and effectively with them.

Correct, like we should do to Collins, Benton, etc...

William Tell

07-02-2014, 02:57 PM

The 2-A was created to kill postal workers?

The anarchist sorts are starting to sound more violent than most of the people they call 'statists' :(

ZENemy

07-02-2014, 03:16 PM

The anarchist sorts are starting to sound more violent than most of the people they call 'statists' :(

Those would not be anarchist, those would be idiots claiming to be anarchist.

ZENemy

07-02-2014, 03:19 PM

Ahh, thats so collective of you.

Not in favor of banning those with different ideas = collectivism?

I don't get it.

69360

07-02-2014, 05:51 PM

Anti-Neocon

07-02-2014, 05:57 PM

It could be any one of us. Maybe you're the bad seed.
Pretty sure the bad seeds (http://nickcave.com/live/) are all in Seattle now. I'd pay to see them.

pcosmar

07-02-2014, 06:09 PM

I have no problem with identifying bad seeds and showing them the door. They exist, so you may as well deal realistically and effectively with them.

Well,,, I don't care for banning,, nor setting up Checkpoints to keep people out. Especially when the purpose is to invite the public,,and grow the movement.

If you don't want someone as a speaker,, don't invite them to speak. There is no need to ban them from attending,,

This whole mess started over the fear of the message of the 2nd Amendment,, and the legitimate use of force..
Not "Advocating" violence,, but recognizing that violence is the reality,,

Some people are afraid to talk about it..
Hell,, we can barely talk about it here,, and only with very carefully picked words.

mac_hine

07-02-2014, 06:16 PM

Cantwell was recently interviewed by Tom Woods. The conversation is relevant to this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDGrYXqjpWA#
Christopher Cantwell joins Tom to discuss what libertarianism is, as well as recent unwelcome innovations. Subscribe to the Tom Woods Show: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/t...

ItsTime

07-02-2014, 06:26 PM

And I have not heard of armed assaults by postal workers,, and they are not driving around in armed assault vehicles yet.

If they do,, then yes,, kill them. And keep killing them till they quit that shit.

Then you should read what he said about postal workers.... He believe they have already assaulted people just by being government employees.

pcosmar

07-02-2014, 06:38 PM

Then you should read what he said about postal workers.... He believe they have already assaulted people just by being government employees.

Well what did he say exactly? (post links)

Not some loose paraphrase of what somebody said he said..

A link and an exact quote in context.

This started at the protests against small towns Armored Assault Vehicle,, and the comments he made then.
Though there has been a lot of panty wetting over the Bundy Standoff.

ItsTime

07-02-2014, 06:40 PM

Well what did he say exactly? (post links)

Not some loose paraphrase of what somebody said he said..

A link and an exact quote in context.

This started at the protests against small towns Armored Assault Vehicle,, and the comments he made then.
Though there has been a lot of panty wetting over the Bundy Standoff.

I will dig it up. I don't go to his site anymore.

needless to say his website is full of romancing about violence against the state.

heavenlyboy34

07-02-2014, 06:57 PM

"Banning" is a verb, "black" is an adjective...

Those can both also function as nouns. ("I am banning you"/"I got a banning", etc) That's one of the quirks of English. Other languages usually separate words for nouns, adjectives, and verbs. i.e.- Муж=man(n) мужский=man(adj)

pcosmar

07-02-2014, 07:07 PM

Then you should read what he said about postal workers.....

OK,, I think I found it.
http://www.christophercantwell.com/2013/09/08/when-should-you-shoot-the-mailman/

If it doesn’t go without saying, I’m kidding. But since so many people have asked me recently “Are you saying we should kill the mailman?”. I figured I’d do my best to make the case for doing so. If it doesn’t go without saying, you should not try this at home, stupid.

or did you have something else in mind?

Oh,, The satirical video is here, (based loosely on Larkin Rose's video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci_G0VNZQi8