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View Full Version : No-fly list removal process unconstitutional, judge rules




aGameOfThrones
06-24-2014, 10:02 PM
The Department of Homeland Security's method for the public to challenge placement on a no-fly list is unconstitutional, a federal judge ruled [PDF] Tuesday. US District Judge Anna Brown ordered the authorities to revise the process she declared as "wholly ineffective."

Brown's ruling stems from a case brought by 13 people on a no-fly list. The judge wrote that the redress process does not provide "a meaningful mechanism for travelers who have been denied boarding to correct erroneous information in the government's terrorism databases."

It was the first time a court declared the Traveler Redress Inquiry Program run by the Department of Homeland Security as unconstitutional.

“Our clients will finally get the due process to which they are entitled under the Constitution. This excellent decision also benefits other people wrongly stuck on the no-fly list, with the promise of a way out from a Kafkaesque bureaucracy causing them no end of grief and hardship. We hope this serves as a wake-up call for the government to fix its broken watch list system, which has swept up so many innocent people," said Hina Shamsi, the national security project director of the American Civil Liberties Union.

The decision comes months after a Muslim woman was the first to successfully challenge her placement on a watch list. But that decision did not raise the broader constitutional issues like the case decided Tuesday. The Justice Department said it was reviewing the decision and declined comment on whether it would appeal.

Under the redress program, the government responds to passengers with a letter that neither explains why they are on a watch list that usually bars them from flight nor says whether they've been removed from a watch list.

Brown ordered DHS to disclose to the plaintiffs, with unclassified information, why they were placed on a watch list.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/06/no-fly-list-removal-process-unconstitutional-judge-rules/

Occam's Banana
06-24-2014, 10:51 PM
Mmmmmmmmmm ... just smell all the freedomy goodness! ...


The Department of Homeland Security's method for the public to challenge placement on a no-fly list is unconstitutional, a federal judge ruled [... The] ruling stems from a case brought by 13 people on a no-fly list. The judge wrote that the redress process does not provide "a meaningful mechanism for travelers who have been denied boarding to correct erroneous information in the government's terrorism databases."

That's strange - I can't seem to find anything at all in the Constitution requiring the federal government to provide "a meaningful mechanism for travelers who have been denied boarding to correct erroneous information in the government's terrorism database." But then, I can't find anything in the Constitution permitting the federal government to maintain a "terrorism database" in the first place - so what the hell do I know? I guess I'm just not "federal judge" material ...


“Our clients will finally get the due process to which they are entitled under the Constitution. This excellent decision also benefits other people wrongly stuck on the no-fly list, with the promise of a way out from a Kafkaesque bureaucracy causing them no end of grief and hardship. We hope this serves as a wake-up call for the government to fix its broken watch list system, which has swept up so many innocent people," said Hina Shamsi, the national security project director of the American Civil Liberties Union.

"Now, you be a good government and play nice with your DHS 'terrorism databases' and TSA 'no-fly lists' ... !"
("After all, you don't anyone to get hurt, do you? Say ... where's the cat? I haven't seen it anywhere. Have you?")

amy31416
06-24-2014, 11:04 PM
A female judge made this decision?

Must be wrong and emotionally-driven.

Working Poor
06-25-2014, 02:56 AM
I have not been inside an airport for over 20 years. But I wonder if I am allowed to fly. If someone buys an airline ticket and goes to the airport to board a plane and are found to be on the no fly list does the airline do the right thing and refund the price of the ticket? Or does the airlines have access to people on the no fly list so that they do not have to go through the trouble of going to find out the day of their flight?

LibForestPaul
06-25-2014, 05:58 AM
Our clients will finally get the due process to which they are entitled under the Constitution.
Usually that comes before denying life and liberty, not after.
It is joyous seeing how laws get distorted. No case law regarding the list itself, it's impact on peoples property and liberties, just the processes surrounding the list.

Can we start a no gun list, please!!!
If one is not allowed to fly, one should not be allowed a firearm.
And employment list.
If one is too much of a danger to fly, one should not be permitted to work with children, disabled, ill, elderly ,public at large.

Anti Federalist
06-25-2014, 09:56 AM
I have not been inside an airport for over 20 years. But I wonder if I am allowed to fly. If someone buys an airline ticket and goes to the airport to board a plane and are found to be on the no fly list does the airline do the right thing and refund the price of the ticket? Or does the airlines have access to people on the no fly list so that they do not have to go through the trouble of going to find out the day of their flight?

The is answer is no and maybe.

Flying is a giant hassle anymore, avoid it all costs.

Pericles
06-25-2014, 10:01 AM
The is answer is no and maybe.

Flying is a giant hassle anymore, avoid it all costs.

4 plane rides since September 2001. Wish I could have made it 0.

Working Poor
06-25-2014, 02:31 PM
Is there a way of finding out if you are on the no fly list prior to going to fly?