Questions / Concerns About Ron Paul Blimp Project

[rjo43084]

I am a Ron Paul supporter, but I would like to point out that I am EXTREMELY skeptical of the Ron Paul Blimp project.

First off, why is it a FOR-PROFIT LLC? Non-profit LLC's can be created just as easily, and a non-profit still would have allowed for the airship to be rented, advertising displayed, and all the people involved with running the company to be paid, and for the same ad-buying amounts to be used.

Second, why are only US citizens allowed to donate? This company creates a situation where they are apparently outside the jurisdiction of US election law. It is an advertising firm, and therefore people and companies in foreign countries should be allowed to buy ad time just as much as US citizens are. And seeing how much support there is for Ron Paul from around the world, there is no reason people from outside the US should not be able to.

And that raises another question, is this ACTUALLY LEGAL? Are there any experts on campaign finance and/or political advertising law that can prove this new company can legally operate? It seems strange to me, given all the sneaky maneuvers both Republicans and Democrats have used to bypass campaign finance restrictions in the past, that there would not have been cases in the past where an ad agency like this was setup to allow for unrestricted funding for a company whose sole purpose is to promote a political candidate. If this is a legitimate loophole in campaign finance reform, then I would expect it to have been used already, so I should hope that someone should be able to research this and find cases where this has been done before, seeing that I have not. If there aren't cases of this found, I would be highly suspicious that this is a legal loophole, because it would probably be the largest loophole in campaign finance reforms found to date.

I would not place blind trust in the people running this site and assume they have all the answers, even if it is supposedly backed by Trevor Lyman. He was the originator of this idea, but the site doesn't outright say that he is involved with them in any way, from what I have viewed of the website. Note how there is hardly any description of the project on the site any more. The specifics are VERY vague, and no explanation is given on the legality of this LLC, or why they stopped going the government approved, more legitimate route of establishing a Political Action Committee to get the job done.

If this is legal, fine, but someone should definitively prove this.

Maybe this has already been discussed and proven to be legit, I don't know, but all I do know is I was a lot more supportive of the project and ready to donate when they were going to form a PAC and said they had government approval for the project. Now none of that government approval is mentioned on the site. The fact that your purchase is also NON-REFUNDABLE is a red flag for me. They don't explain what happens if they don't raise enough money for this thing to happen. Though I doubt they will be unable to raise enough money, that lack of explanation is suspect, and the fact that they state these ad purchases are non-refundable suggests that if this thing doesn't get off the ground, YOU WILL NOT GET YOUR MONEY BACK.

They have provided no legal documents on their website for the founding of the LLC, or for documents signifying there is a DEFINITE agreement between Airship Management Services and their company for the 350k rate they spoke of in earlier forms of the website. It's all HEARSAY, and you're just trusting that these people are handling your money appropriately.

I am not suggesting not to buy ad time. If you trust these people, go right ahead. The idea is a great one, and if this is legit it will be one of the greatest campaign stunts in HISTORY, but all I ask you is to be VERY WARY. I personally WILL NOT DONATE to this website until I see the blimp up in the air at a future Ron Paul rally, or at least until they have a more comprehensive website that lays out their plan, point by point, the legal justification for all of this, and proof that this LLC has actually been founded legitimately.

[OptionsTrader]

Mods:

Wrong forum.

[foofighter20x]

Moved...

[BeFranklin]

Darn it, Why are you inflicting us with this? Its a first time user post.

[Bryan]

Maybe everyone could go in the chat room to iron a few things out and them come back and report?


:)

[MozoVote]

It would have been wiser for the organizers to launch this on a weekday so that some of these questions can be answered more easily. Instead we'll probably spend the rest of the weekend speculating and dousing fires. (Especially from first time posters. Hmmmm.)

[KewlRonduderules]

You know what I am suspicious about? Now, that November 30th past and the conflict is past and gone, there is a campaign of renewed conflict about the ron paul blimp.

I suspect some of these persons are political operatives from other camps trying to derail the effort.

[Tina]

one time poster with an obvious agenda.

[doogles15]

I agree! I don't like that this is a for profit company. Why don't they explain themselves a bit more. They might loss a lot of those pledges now. Hopefully things get back in order.

[francisco]

You know what I am suspicious about? Now, that November 30th past and the conflict is past and gone, there is a campaign of renewed conflict about the ron paul blimp.

I suspect some of these persons are political operatives from other camps trying to derail the effort.

Yup, pretty obvious to me.

A lot new posters with a clear agenda of actively trying to dissuade others from contributing. None of these people are doing anything positive to organize and support something different on the forums, they are being purely negative. If they are not outright provocateurs, they at a minimum have very misplaced priorities.

[doogles15]

Sure there is a lot of negativity out there and for a good reason. Ron Paul is out to end the careers of many criminals within the government and corporate America. So far only $12,150 has been donated of the $400,000 plus pledged. I am worried that a lot of people have become more skeptical about this. Maybe be for no reason, but still understandable. I am sure these guys running it will clear everything up soon enough.

[billjarrett]

I'm a relatively new poster (I think this is post 82), but not in the 1-5 post range. I was suspicious about the blimp thing because of the for-profit LLC but was keeping my mouth shut. They could be new posters with an agenda, but they do have a point. When I saw the for-profit part I wasn't planning on donating myself.

[jabbott0]

I think these are valid questions. Also, the new website design and the method of fundraising for the blimp is so radically different that it is confusing. I pledged $100 prior to the redesign. I see now that $100 gets only 4 minutes on the blimp. That is a bit disheartening and makes me *not* want to contribute. There also needs to be a statement on the website that says "For all of you who have pledged, we are now ready to take your donation". Because it looks so radically different now though, and without the encouragement to donate, I think it will be difficult to get all of the pledges.

[paulie]

I no longer believe what I wrote...GO BLIMP!

[Elijah]

After legal counsel, if we would have formed a PAC then the you could donate a maximum of $2,300 and on top of that you could not donate anything to the official campaign.

So.. We formed a company that can let anyone make a independent expenditure in any amount they want.

Our legal counsel includes former FEC chairman Brad Smith, for those of you who question what I say. http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/BradSmith.php



We understand this is a drastic change and it appears suspicious but for legality reasons this is the best way.

[BeFranklin]

I think these are valid questions. Also, the new website design and the method of fundraising for the blimp is so radically different that it is confusing. I pledged $100 prior to the redesign. I see now that $100 gets only 4 minutes on the blimp. That is a bit disheartening and makes me *not* want to contribute. There also needs to be a statement on the website that says "For all of you who have pledged, we are now ready to take your donation". Because it looks so radically different now though, and without the encouragement to donate, I think it will be difficult to get all of the pledges.

I actually prefer the minutes. Its talking about time in the air - $100 = 4 minutes * 160 hours = ~ $240,000. I think the blimp was only going to be in the air 160 hours a month originally. This now relates dollars to time in the air, instead of by month, and may be better if we keep the blimp indefinitely.

[Doriath]

I don't have any problem with it being a for-profit company. Really, I don't see why any Paul supporter would object to the concept of doing something good and making money at the same time. Isn't that part of the magic o' the market?

[newmedia4ron]

[ Admin - off-topic post deleted ]

[GorGor]

My question is: if the money is not returned, and $350k isn't raised, what will the donated money go to?

[michael.byrne]

After legal counsel, if we would have formed a PAC then the you could donate a maximum of $2,300 and on top of that you could not donate anything to the official campaign.

So.. We formed a company that can let anyone make a independent expenditure in any amount they want.

We understand this is a drastic change and it appears suspicious but for legality reasons this is the best way.

Why don't you elaborate a bit more. More transparent, please.
This project is more and more like a closed door deal. And we know that top-down approach won't work. Don't tell us what's is best. We can decide by ourself.

If this project is going to flop, it will be a major laughing stock for media.

And, the purchases are non refundable even if there is no blimp. The first question comes to mind is:

WTF?

[TruckinMike]

501/ non-profit organizations are very restrictive. If its listed as for profit --- there are no strings attached to the operation. They can do as they please -- as we need -- FOR the Ron Paul Campaign! So relax everybody. Things are groovy in Blimpland. Take a chill pill.

TruckinMike

[obstruksion]

Will an email be going out to the people who pledged explaining all of this? I mean we signed up with our email address for this reason...

[leipo]

501/ non-profit organizations are very restrictive. If its listed as for profit --- there are no strings attached to the operation. They can do as they please -- as we need -- FOR the Ron Paul Campaign! So relax everybody. Things are groovy in Blimpland. Take a chill pill.

TruckinMike

I'll take your word for it but isn't that the world upside down? One would assume that a for-profit company would have more restrictions than a non-profit company.

[max]

I don't have any problem with it being a for-profit company. Really, I don't see why any Paul supporter would object to the concept of doing something good and making money at the same time. Isn't that part of the magic o' the market?

these posts complaining about "profit" are coming from new member trollls....

they want to stop this blimp because it will be a huge PR event...

[KewlRonduderules]

these posts complaining about "profit" are coming from new member trollls....

they want to stop this blimp because it will be a huge PR event...


Agreed!

[TechnoGuyRob]

Will an email be going out to the people who pledged explaining all of this? I mean we signed up with our email address for this reason...

Seconded.

Please expain this carefully in the e-mails.

[steph3n]

I have to say, non profits have many MORE restrictions than a for profit company, they also take months to properly form and get the paperwork in place, it could not happen so quickly in any case.

[TechnoGuyRob]

I think these are valid questions. Also, the new website design and the method of fundraising for the blimp is so radically different that it is confusing. I pledged $100 prior to the redesign. I see now that $100 gets only 4 minutes on the blimp. That is a bit disheartening and makes me *not* want to contribute. There also needs to be a statement on the website that says "For all of you who have pledged, we are now ready to take your donation". Because it looks so radically different now though, and without the encouragement to donate, I think it will be difficult to get all of the pledges.

I agree.

[jmhend]

If you have a problem with the blimp, simply don't donate to it. Please stop whining, though. I think it's a fun idea and would love to see it happen.

[steph3n]

I agree.

It is a legal issue to "donate" so you have to "buy time" in order for this to work. i don't see what the big deal is, did people giving $50 really expect to get an adventure?!

[slantedview]

Will an email be going out to the people who pledged explaining all of this? I mean we signed up with our email address for this reason...

YES

[slantedview]

Seconded.

Please expain this carefully in the e-mails.
Explaining it carefully is exactly why the mail hasn't been sent yet. The legal language has to be sorted out.

[devil21]

My question is: if the money is not returned, and $350k isn't raised, what will the donated money go to?

Thats a valid question that should be answered.

[slantedview]

I think these are valid questions. Also, the new website design and the method of fundraising for the blimp is so radically different that it is confusing. I pledged $100 prior to the redesign. I see now that $100 gets only 4 minutes on the blimp. That is a bit disheartening and makes me *not* want to contribute. There also needs to be a statement on the website that says "For all of you who have pledged, we are now ready to take your donation". Because it looks so radically different now though, and without the encouragement to donate, I think it will be difficult to get all of the pledges.
I'm really glad you think it will be hard to get all the pledges. Thanks for sharing that.

The reason things changed is THEY HAD TO, for legal reasons. You are an individual purchaser of airtime. THe amount of airtime you can purchase is directly proportionate to how much it costs to keep the blimp in the air for that amount of time. In that sense, nothing has changed.

[AgentSmith]

Darn it, Why are you inflicting us with this? Its a first time user post.


Why does that matter? This is a pretty pathetic attempt at avoiding the questions. I think that pretty much answers the questions.

These arent difficult questions. But apparently they are difficult to answer.

[bulloncoins]

I have to say, non profits have many MORE restrictions than a for profit company, they also take months to properly form and get the paperwork in place, it could not happen so quickly in any case.


I will verify this to be true. I help set up a non-profit for my church once...it took many months. We would have never gotten it off the ground if we tried to go non-profit. The regulations are hedious.

[AgentSmith]

...

[rjo43084]

You know what I am suspicious about? Now, that November 30th past and the conflict is past and gone, there is a campaign of renewed conflict about the ron paul blimp.

I suspect some of these persons are political operatives from other camps trying to derail the effort.


these posts complaining about "profit" are coming from new member trollls....

they want to stop this blimp because it will be a huge PR event...

Ok just because I am a first time poster does not mean I am a troll or a "political operative". I just wanted to ask some questions about the blimp project in the hopes that someone had the legal knowledge to answer me sufficiently on these issues. I'm sorry, but doesn't it seem just a little out of place that one of the most ambitious projects yet in the Ron Paul Revolution suddenly changes its method of operation completely. I thought this was a grassroots movement that held the people as a whole in high regard. If so, then shouldn't this switch to a for-profit LLC have been posted in all the Ron Paul forums by the people running the project BEFORE all this happened, so that fellow supporters could discuss it and raise any concerns they may have?

I am a first time poster because this is something I was really concerned about. I don't want people getting screwed out of money, and I felt that my questions were reasonable. The fact that I was immediately labeled a "political operative", simply because I asked a couple questions about a switch in the operations of ronpaulblimp.com that I found suspect, is disheartening to me. I realize a lot of people are trying to derail Ron Paul and the Revolution, but to become this paranoid just because some questions are posted does not show the true strength of this movement...

[Paul4Prez]

Here's the FEC link to rules on independent expenditures:

http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/indexp.shtml

Note that if your independent expenditures on behalf of a single candidate add up to more than $250 for the year, you are required to report them to the FEC. (Correct me if I interpreted that section incorrectly.)

[AgentSmith]

[ Admin - removed post for personal attack ]

[steph3n]

Here's the FEC link to rules on independent expenditures:

http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/indexp.shtml

Note that if your independent expenditures on behalf of a single candidate add up to more than $250 for the year, you are required to report them to the FEC. (Correct me if I interpreted that section incorrectly.)

yes 2 points on it, they will send people the needed forms to reports if over $250 and they will not advoacte anyone FOR PRESIDENT just informational

[Indy Vidual]

If you have a problem with the blimp, simply don't donate to it. Please stop whining, though. I think it's a fun idea and would love to see it happen.

Welcome to the forum :)

[BeFranklin]

Ok just because I am a first time poster does not mean I am a troll or a "political operative". I just wanted to ask some questions about the blimp project in the hopes that someone had the legal knowledge to answer me sufficiently on these issues. I'm sorry, but doesn't it seem just a little out of place that one of the most ambitious projects yet in the Ron Paul Revolution suddenly changes its method of operation completely. I thought this was a grassroots movement that held the people as a whole in high regard. .

BeFranklin: "Darn it, Why are you inflicting us with this? Its a first time user post."

Geeze, don't you have a sense of humor? That was a joke, lighten up. Also, your message title for this thread is a little harsh for "holding other people as a whole in the highest regard".

[moberley]

501/ non-profit organizations are very restrictive. If its listed as for profit --- there are no strings attached to the operation. They can do as they please -- as we need -- FOR the Ron Paul Campaign! So relax everybody. Things are groovy in Blimpland. Take a chill pill.

TruckinMike

For-profit LLC is a legal status. As the poster I quoted noted it is simply a company without the restrictions on a not-for-profit company. I can't vouch for the principals of this company (nor can I say any to besmirch them) because I don't know them. But, the fact that they've formed an LLC tells you practically nothing about their intentions.

[LibertyEagle]

one time poster with an obvious agenda.

Why not judge her post for its merit, rather than the number of posts she has made? She seems to have some interesting points. Perhaps the best course of action would be for someone in the know to answer her questions.

[GorGor]

A lot was sprung on us in the last 24 hours in regards to how we all thought this was going to play out. Maybe the blimp crew rushed in getting the site live for whatever reason when they should have planned better in letting us know of the changes and the reasons for the changes before actually accepting money.

I have no doubt this is legit. There are eight people listed as "staff" on the ronpaulblimp.com web site. Do you really think a couple hundred thousand dollars split between 8 people is worth the troubles they would bringing upon themselves by 10's of thousands of pissed off people if they screw us? They'd all have to move to the hills for $60k, or have facial reconstruction which would eat up a lot of that $60k... unless they went to Dr. Nick Riviera :)

I pledged a fair amount to the blimp. I am going to wait a day or two for the blimp crew to explain all of what's going on before I get all worked up or send in my pledged money.

[Mark]

I have to say, non profits have many MORE restrictions than a for profit company, they also take months to properly form and get the paperwork in place, it could not happen so quickly in any case.

Steph, I had a legally Incorporated, Religious Tax Exempt in North Carolina Corporation, completed in 2 days. Two days.

Not a long time.

It's getting 501(c)3 status from the Fed Gov that takes a long time.

They could donate it to my church and I'll pay for it, for free. At no cost. 100% in goes 100% to the blimp.

How about that for a excellent, no cost at all, compromise?

I'm ready to do it now. Let's do it. what's not perfect about that?

[steph3n]

Steph, I had a legally Incorporated, Religious Tax Exempt in North Carolina Corporation, completed in 2 days. Two days.

Not a long time.

It's getting 501(c)3 status from the Fed Gov that takes a long time.

They could donate it to my church and I'll pay for it, for free. At no cost. 100% in goes 100% to the blimp.

How about that for a excellent, no cost at all, compromise?

I'm ready to do it now. Let's do it. what's not perfect about that?

It makes no difference in the end, non profits pay HUGE HUGE salaries as well. In the end it doesn't matter at all how it is done

[Mark]

I discussed this with my wife this morning. We were lied to, plain and simple. Instead of a PAC we got a for profit LLC with a bold promise of no refunds. No PAC, for profit LLC...we are NOT going to be participating in this shady round-about method of "purchasing" advertising time. Our money would be much better spent actually giving to a PAC or the campaign itself. I was so excited about this, and now so disappointed to be met with a business that features its team of lawyers. I guess when this LLC goes belly-up our blimp money will go with it. No "purchase" from this advertising company for us.

There is no explanation from anyone that is going to make us feel any better about this. For profit is for profit, non-refundable is non-refundable, and LLC is LLC no matter how you try to explain it.

Quoted for truth.

Look at the bottom of my sig. I have a legal non-profit church of 9 years that is not 501(c)3, and thus is not under the restrictions of non-endorsement like a 501(c)3 Church is.

I've already offered to accept donations and use every penny, 100% of donations towards the blimp. And if it doesn't fly, I can give it back or spend it on campaign materials and ads in whatever way would mostly benefit the campaign.

I'm ready to go. I've been ready for 9 years now,

won't that work better than paying the salaries of the owners of a for-profit company out of the donations?

[Mark]

I haven't made a penny, not one red cent in 9 years,



And also btw, I haven't even had one penny of donations to my Church in 9 years either.

Nothing.

No one has ever given anything to keep my Church going except myself.

[steph3n]

I haven't made a penny, not one red cent in 9 years, in fact, I have to work a regular job to pay for things.

No huge salaries here, it costs me money to keep my Church going. Money out of my own pocket.

I understand, and you are in the vast minority, the vast MAJORITY of non profits pay, and most of them pay WELL. i for one believe people should get paid for their work.

[Mark]

It makes no difference in the end, non profits pay HUGE HUGE salaries as well. In the end it doesn't matter at all how it is done

I haven't made a penny, not one red cent in 9 years, in fact, I have to work in a regular job to pay for things.

No huge salaries here, it costs me money to keep my Church going. Money out of my own pocket.

[FreeTraveler]

It costs me money to keep my Church going. Money out of my own pocket.

Is this supposed to be a good thing? If you can't get people to donate to a church to pay the operating expenses, what makes you think you know anything about a political campaign? With a church, you can make up stuff and say anything the people want to hear, which makes it incredibly easy to raise money. We're limited to the truth here, since we're supporting Dr. Paul.

[Mark]

I haven't made a penny, not one red cent in 9 years,



And also btw, no one has even ever donated a penny to my Church in 9 years.

Nothing.

The only money available to keep my Church going comes out of my own pocket. Not to mention the time spent.

I give that for free too.

[torchbearer]

I understand, and you are in the vast minority, the vast MAJORITY of non profits pay, and most of them pay WELL. i for one believe people should get paid for their work.

Very good point.

[Mark]

Is this supposed to be a good thing? If you can't get people to donate to a church to pay the operating expenses, what makes you think you know anything about a political campaign? With a church, you can make up stuff and say anything the people want to hear, which makes it incredibly easy to raise money. We're limited to the truth here, since we're supporting Dr. Paul.

Because I'm not a charlatan. Not once in 9 years have I ever asked anyone for anything.

And, it's not easy when the Church isn't a 501(c)3 that can give receipts for tax deductions.

People like their deductions when "donating" to charities.

And yes it's a good thing, I answer to no human other than myself, and myself answers to no Entity other than Almighty God.

And I like it that way.

[Mark]

I understand, and you are in the vast minority, the vast MAJORITY of non profits pay, and most of them pay WELL. i for one believe people should get paid for their work.

Thank you for recognizing that Steph, I work for God, not for money.

Unlike some Churches and charities act, I know there is a God.

And all I want to work for is to hear Jesus say when I finally meet Him face to Face,

"Well done, My good and faithful servant."

If I hear Jesus say that, I'll have everything I ever wanted from my Church.

[BeFranklin]

Is this supposed to be a good thing? If you can't get people to donate to a church to pay the operating expenses, what makes you think you know anything about a political campaign? With a church, you can make up stuff and say anything the people want to hear, which makes it incredibly easy to raise money. We're limited to the truth here, since we're supporting Dr. Paul.

Lol, but that wouldn't be right.

Although I agree with Mark that churches shouldn't be making profits (like they are) (and that is one of the problems with many churches) maybe we're both doing something wrong -- I think we are both poor :)

I don't think this is a scam, but there does need to be more information. I've only put in $25 of my total original pledge, and will wait to put in the rest, but that leads to some questions:

Should we ever pay anyone to do volunteer type work? I think maybe, and if its full time. Ron Paul's hq has I think 70 paid volunteers. And I have no problem donating some money when I don't have time to do something myself.

Still there needs to be some clarification. I took the no refunds to mean if you buy timespace, that is what you get. I think the law reads, that if we pay for something we don't get, that is no sale and you have to give it back. ie if I give you $5 for a chair, and you don't give me a chair, the $5 is mine. If you give me a chair, and I can return it I get a refund. Thats two different things.

As it is now, I read it as a timeshare. Meaning, I am not paying for a % of the company running, I am paying for 1 minute up in the air, period. If I don't get 1 minute in the air for my $25, I am entitled to my $25 back, not as a refund, but because no sale ever took place. But that needs to be clarified.

Of course, if its a complete scam, that won't matter, but I do think that is how the law reads.

[steph3n]

Lol, but that wouldn't be right.

Although I agree with Mark that churches shouldn't be making profits (like they are) (and that is one of the problems with many churches) maybe we're both doing something wrong -- I think we are both poor :)

I don't think this is a scam, but there does need to be more information. I've only put in $25 of my total original pledge, and will wait to put in the rest, but that leads to some questions:

Should we ever pay anyone to do volunteer type work? I think maybe, and if its full time. Ron Paul's hq has I think 70 volunteers. And I have no problem donating some money when I don't have time to do something else myself.

Still there needs to be some clarification. I took the no refunds to mean if you buy timespace, that is what you get. I think the law reads, that if we pay for something we don't get, that is no sale and you have to give it back. ie if I give you $5 for a chair, and you don't give me a chair, the $5 is mine. If you give me a chair, and I return it I get a refund. Thats two different things.

As it is now, I read it as a timeshare. Meaning, I am not paying for a % of the company running, I am paying for 1 minute up in the air, period. If I don't get 1 minute in the air for my $25, I am entitled to my $25 back, not as a refund, but because no sale ever took place. But that needs to be clarified.

Of course, if its a complete scam, that won't matter, but I do think that is how the law reads.


I think the HQ has over 70 PAID staff now too.

[JohnnyWrath]

Bottom line, Trevor and Elijah have started a FOR PROFIT company, and without a doubt, after both have now quit their jobs, plan to make money off the Ron Paul campaign.

If they are now a company, and they are.... LOOK (http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/MediaTeam.php)...........then we should know upfront what their company is charging for their services..,..

HOW MUCH ARE TREVOR AND ELIJAH MAKING OFF THIS?

Are you people new to the world, these two see a chance to profit from these forums and the supporters of Ron Paul....end of story.

[steph3n]

Bottom line, Trevor and Elijah have started a FOR PROFIT company, and without a doubt, after both have now quit their jobs, plan to make money off the Ron Paul campaign.

If they are now a company, and they are.... LOOK (http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/MediaTeam.php)...........then we should know upfront what their company is charging for their services..,..

HOW MUCH ARE TREVOR AND ELIJAH MAKING OFF THIS?

Give it some time man, he's already asking how much people thing would be fair for such, so he is making some public input on the thoughts here.....

I don't believe they are looking to "make money" just to get fair compensation for their time and efforts that they put into managing this endeavor.

[BeFranklin]

I think the HQ has over 70 PAID staff now too.

Thats what I meant. My bad.

[Indy Vidual]

After legal counsel, if we would have formed a PAC then the you could donate a maximum of $2,300 and on top of that you could not donate anything to the official campaign.

So.. We formed a company that can let anyone make a independent expenditure in any amount they want.

Our legal counsel includes former FEC chairman Brad Smith, for those of you who question what I say. http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/BradSmith.php



We understand this is a drastic change and it appears suspicious but for legality reasons this is the best way.

Anyone who was kind enough to pledge something to such a great new idea, should also know changes would need to be made before the site went live.

```````

Thank you, for all the work you're putting in to this.

[BeFranklin]

Bottom line, Trevor and Elijah have started a FOR PROFIT company, and without a doubt, after both have now quit their jobs, plan to make money off the Ron Paul campaign.


There is nothing wrong with making money. If they quit their jobs to make money of the Ron Paul campaign, they choose the wrong candidate. Hillary Clinton is up to 100 mill I think. All the other candidates are pretty much rolling in money.

[JohnnyWrath]

BTW, they are now using this blimp to sell advertising space for more profit....c'mon, this is a joke....


If they quit their jobs to make money of the Ron Paul campaign, they choose the wrong candidate.


I believe they did.

[Indy Vidual]

I don't have any problem with it being a for-profit company. Really, I don't see why any Paul supporter would object to the concept of doing something good and making money at the same time. Isn't that part of the magic o' the market?

Many people respect the magic o' the market:

http://www.1life1time.com/images/rp.jpg

Congressman Ron Paul: Archives (http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html) (Dr. Ron Paul in his own words and brilliant writings)
``````

[JohnnyWrath]

For profit....perfect....I'll ask again.....how much is the company goingn to make? How much are the services going to cost?

[steph3n]

For profit....perfect....I'll ask again.....how much is the company goingn to make? How much are the services going to cost?

STOP TROLLING AND LET THEM ANSWER.

my goodness give them some time!

[Mark]

"Well done, My good and faithful servant."

If I hear Jesus say that, I'll have everything I ever wanted from my Church.



I thought, some people might not of heard that before. It's a scripture in the Bible.


Matthew 25:21 (King James Version)


21 His Lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant...

[JohnnyWrath]

All we had to do was rent a freakin' blimp.....we get the money and pay for the thing....nobody needed to start companies and make profit....same way so many have rented airplanes to fly banners.

[GorGor]

BTW, they are now using this blimp to sell advertising space for more profit.

What are you referencing as far as advertising space?

[steph3n]

All we had to do was rent a freakin' blimp.....we get the money and pay for the thing....nobody needed to start companies and make profit....same way so many have rented airplanes to fly banners.

incorrect any expense over 3k is required to be a PAC or a novel new idea of an advertising firm :)

[steph3n]

What are you referencing as far as advertising space?

the blimp is the advertising space :rolleyes:

[JohnnyWrath]

The Blog's of Elijah Lynn.


Please join us in our goal to raise $200,000 to make and fly the first ever Presidential Blimp in history. Choose a pledge amount below and enter your email address to confirm the pledge. When we reach our goal in pledges you'll receive an email letting you know it's time to fulfill the pledge.

Now they are asking how much?? They had well over 400,000 in pledges, and they now are selling ad space for more money.....I am about a click away from reporting this....no kidding.


incorrect any expense over 3k is required to be a PAC or a novel new idea of an advertising firm

The ad in the USA Today cost 80,000 dollars from a single donor....he have a PAC?

[Mark]

how much people thing would be fair for such,

I don't believe they are looking to "make money" just to get fair compensation for their time and efforts that they put into managing this endeavor.



Fair for a 'volunteer' is nothing. No money paid to them. Else, they're not "grassroots volunteers".

.
And they should promote their for-profit non-volunteer company somewhere other

than the forum for non-paid grassroots Ron Paul volunteers.


'
If everyone came here to promote how they support themselves,

it would end up being a pretty useless forum for non-paid volunteers.

.
Are you cool with everyone promoting their jobs that they support themselves with?

.
If so, then everyone should be able to do it. Not just them.

[steph3n]

The Blog's of Elijah Lynn.



Now they are asking how much?? They had well over 400,000 in pledges, and they now are selling ad space for more money.....I am about a click away from reporting this....no kidding.

They are selling it for LESS now than before, report them for more flight hours for less money, amazing

[Doriath]

HOW MUCH ARE TREVOR AND ELIJAH MAKING OFF THIS?


Who cares? If they get a big ol' blimp with Ron Paul's name on it floating around the country, and make money at the same time, what's the problem?

You may as well complain that the official campaign is going to take your donations and give them to for profit TV networks, radio stations, and newspapers. Horrors! :rolleyes:

[GorGor]

the blimp is the advertising space :rolleyes:

Right, I get that. What I got from that post was that the blimp crew is trying to sell space for OTHER advertising. I want verifiable sources for this so as to squash this probable misinformation before it gets a foothold.

roll eyes right back at you Stephen.

[steph3n]

The Blog's of Elijah Lynn.



Now they are asking how much?? They had well over 400,000 in pledges, and they now are selling ad space for more money.....I am about a click away from reporting this....no kidding.



The ad in the USA Today cost 80,000 dollars from a single donor....he have a PAC?

He didn't need a PAC because he had NO coordination it was a private individual, if you know someone with 350k burning a hole let me know :)

[steph3n]

Right, I get that. What I got from that post was that the blimp crew is trying to sell space for OTHER advertising. I want verifiable sources for this so as to squash this probable misinformation before it gets a foothold.

roll eyes right back at you Stephen.

The blimp has all the ad space filled up ad space is sold out :D

[Mark]

incorrect any expense over 3k is required to be a PAC or a novel new idea of an advertising firm :)

I beg to differ Steph. There's a link at the bottom of my sig, "Please Help Our Church".

Pop $400,000 in there, even 1 person could do it, there are NO limits on how much my Church can accept in donations.

Go ahead y'all, feel free to go through my Church. Really. Seriously.

It won't cost a thing, and it's ready to go now. Right now. Find someone tonight with $400,000 to donate,

and I'll call the blimp company to get started as soon as they can, and this thing will be ready to fly by the 10th.

[JohnnyWrath]

The blimp has all the ad space filled up ad space is sold out

How do you know this? Also are there NON-RON PAUL ads on the the blimp being sold for profit.....yes or no?

[bonium]

I would like to politely ask that the negativity be taken elsewhere...

It serves no purpose...

You donate or you don't...

The only point in posting negativity is to detract people from the excitement of promoting RP.

I tell people about RP and let them make their own choice...

The Blimp project tells people what they feel they need to, and lets them make their own choice...

If you told me that your life dream was to travel the world and you needed a million dollars, I would donate to you, no questions asked.

Haven't you heard about loaning money to people? You should only loan money if you expect nothing in return. That way when you get something, you are overjoyed. If you get nothing, you won't be as disappointed. If you don't feel this way, you shouldn't donate.

Does this mean if RP doesn't get the nomination, that you want a refund from the campaign? I think not...

Bottom line, don't donate if you don't like, but let everyone else have the freedom and clarity to do it on their own without the negativity...

[deronde]

$350,000 (projected max cost/month) / 31 days / 24 hours / 60 minutes = $7.84/minute
Yet we sell 1 minute of advertising for $25

Thus, to advertise for 31 days (44640 minutes), it will cost $1.12 million.

Not to mention a for-profit has to pay taxes, right?

[steph3n]

Incorrect. There's a link at the bottom of my sig, "Please Help Our Church".

Pop $400,000 in there, even 1 person could do it, there are NO limits on how much my Church can accept in donations.

Go ahead y'all, feel free to go through my Church. Really. Seriously.

It won't cost a thing, and it's ready to go now. Right now. Find someone tonight with $400,000 to donate,

and I'll call the blimp company to get started as soon as they can, and this thing will be ready to fly by the 10th.
if we had someone with 400k no pac would be required it could be done like the USA today ad :)

[steph3n]

$350,000 (projected max cost/month) / 31 days / 24 hours / 60 minutes = $7.84/minute
Yet we sell 1 minute of advertising for $25

Thus, to advertise for 31 days (44640 minutes), it will cost $1.12 million.

Not to mention a for-profit has to pay taxes, right?

incorrect, you can't fly 24 hours a day it is ONLY 160 hours MAX flying time

[rrroae]

Who cares? If they get a big ol' blimp with Ron Paul's name on it floating around the country, and make money at the same time, what's the problem?



The problem is people who feel Elija's and Trevor's motives weren't transparent will no longer donate.

Heck I'd careless but it has become an issue as can be seen by the Blimps donation paige. This can be worked out but some people need address some issues quick and in a hurry before this whole thing goes nowhere.

[millerjd]

$350,000 (projected max cost/month) / 31 days / 24 hours / 60 minutes = $7.84/minute
Yet we sell 1 minute of advertising for $25

Thus, to advertise for 31 days (44640 minutes), it will cost $1.12 million.

Not to mention a for-profit has to pay taxes, right?

But you have to account over head for legal advice, personal restitution. Both of these have been necessary to do this in a lawful manner so no one gets hurt. Plus as mentioned, they hope to keep this thing going for more than 1 month, more than 1 blimp.

What taxes in specific are you talking about? There are no taxes for "services" in a purchase by one private entity to another regardless of status. A good example is when I got ground school for my pilot license, that's a service, no taxes charged.

The only taxes I can imagine will be the income tax. Which case, both the employer and employee is taxed, and this is what we are fighting to get rid of. But in the grand scheme right now, that isn't going to have a huge affect on cost anyways, the good outweighs the bad, ie, being set up as a PAC vs LLC.

[Mark]

If they get a big ol' blimp with Ron Paul's name on it floating around the country, and make money at the same time, what's the problem?



The problem is that I have a no cost, 100% donations go 100% to the blimp, solution available right now,

at this very moment it's ready.

No more legal hassles and paid lawyers and paid treasurers.

It's a very simple thing to do. And very fast.

It's there. Have at it. Unless you want to make money on the blimp.

[steph3n]

The problem is people who feel Elija's and Trevor's motives weren't transparent will no longer donate.

Heck I'd careless but it has become an issue as can be seen by the Blimps donation paige. This can be worked out but some people need address some issues quick and in a hurry before this whole thing goes nowhere.

it is not as much about motives as legality of implementing the ideas but some will never understand this because they don't know the current political environment that has to be worked within due to political finance legislation.

[steph3n]

The problem is that I have a no cost, 100% donations go 100% to the blimp, solution available right now,

at this very moment it's ready.

No more legal hassles and paid lawyers and paid treasurers.

It's a very simple thing to do. And very fast.

It's there. Have at it. Unless you want to make money on the blimp.

it is not that easy however, once you put a candidates name on anything you have to have lawyers ready to defend when the attacks come.

[BeFranklin]

I beg to differ Steph. There's a link at the bottom of my sig, "Please Help Our Church".

Pop $400,000 in there, even 1 person could do it, there are NO limits on how much my Church can accept in donations.

Go ahead y'all, feel free to go through my Church. Really. Seriously.

It won't cost a thing, and it's ready to go now. Right now. Find someone tonight with $400,000 to donate,

and I'll call the blimp company to get started as soon as they can, and this thing will be ready to fly by the 10th.

Hmm, I dare you to donate to this or that chicken thread. Lots of money around, but if you ask, theyre giving none away.

[millerjd]

it is not that easy however, once you put a candidates name on anything you have to have lawyers ready to defend when the attacks come.

You're darn right. The instant this thing makes an appearance, every candidate, D and R is going to be sicking their lawyer on it and Hillary has a lot of money on hand to do it.

[Mark]

I would like to politely ask that the negativity be taken elsewhere...



Welcome to the board. :)

I would like to politely ask that all honor the spirit of the board and not promote things that personally make them money.

I posted before, if they do it, then everyone should get to do it.

All they should do is be completely open with the amount of donations,

and make sure every penny goes towards the blimp or back to the person who donated if enough isn't collected.

In keeping with probably the main purpose of the board, a place for non-paid volunteers to work together.

[Hook]

I think we all get your point by now, Mark. Just repeating it isn't going to make us buy into it anymore than the first time.

I am a bit disappointed by the whole thing as well, but let's wait until the email tomorrow to see what is going on.

[Doriath]

TUnless you want to make money on the blimp.

And if they do...so what?

Guys like Rupert Murdoch are going to make money off all the donations to the official campaign, as soon as it spends them on media they own. Heck, they probably already have. I can think of a lot of people I'd rather see make money...including these blimp guys.

[Mark]

it is not that easy however, once you put a candidates name on anything you have to have lawyers ready to defend when the attacks come.

I've had to explain this so many times, maybe I should just make a post to keep on hand.

Separation of Church and State is guaranteed by The Constitution.

No lawyers, no arguments, just each minds their own business.

Again, my Church is NOT a 501(c)3 Church.

The government has NO business telling us how to expend our donations. None.

[Mark]

Hmm, I dare you to donate to this or that chicken thread. Lots of money around, but if you ask, theyre giving none away.

Yeah, word.

But there seems to be a few people on a volunteer board trying to support themselves by using a board for non-paid volunteers.

They sure are asking people to "give it away" to them, for their own personal gain.

[steph3n]

Yeah, word.

But there seems to be a few people on a volunteer board trying to support themselves by using a board for non-paid volunteers.

They sure are asking people to "give it away" to them, for their own personal gain.

Trevor will very likley be taking a MASSIVE pay cut in doing this at any rate.

He moved from Miami and miami is BIG TIME on the music scene. I mean BIG TIME music promoters that can make a killing EASILY

[JohnnyWrath]

the blimp is a scam for profit, lets do it ourselves free of charges....rent the thing and be done with it....yes, it is that easy.....nobody needs to start their own companies for profit.

[steph3n]

the blimp is a scam for profit, lets do it ourselves free of charges....rent the thing and be done with it....yes, it is that easy.....nobody needs to start their own companies for profit.

you don't understand and obviously don't have any desire to know the law. I am adding you to ignore it will reduce the troll factor in this thread by 50% :D

[Hook]

We understood your points about 300 posts ago.

[JohnnyWrath]

BTW, My dad is from Miami, and his whole family is down there right now....I've been there god knows how many times....who does he promote?

[Mark]

I think we all get your point by now, Mark. Just repeating it isn't going to make us buy into it anymore than the first time.

I am a bit disappointed by the whole thing as well, but let's wait until the email tomorrow to see what is going on.

No one has to "buy into it" Sir.

They just can do it, if, they are truly only interested in helping Dr Paul only, and not themselves as well.

Who needs an email unless they go completely volunteer and will refund the money if they don't get enough.

Very simple.

They don't need overnight to figure out what to do.

They could post it in a couple of minutes here and now.

Thing is. They've already made it perfectly clear that no money will be returned no matter what,

and that they are starting a company to make themselves money.

Pure and simple. I don't need to sleep on that to know what's up.

They've already made it completely clear what they're up to.

[ChrisV]

BTW, My dad is from Miami, and his whole family is down there right now....I've been there god knows how many times....who does he promote?

He promotes your mom, now go away.

[rrroae]

Johnnyw., not saying that I disagree with alot of what you say but when you keep pounding your point people will start reacting negatively to what you have to say.

We just need to be a little patient and see what we're given in response to our concerns and go from there.

You with me?

[Mark]

Trevor will very likley be taking a MASSIVE pay cut in doing this at any rate.

He moved from Miami and miami is BIG TIME on the music scene. I mean BIG TIME music promoters that can make a killing EASILY

Musicians move around all the time. It's normal. And he can always move back if/when he runs out of salary money.

[Indy Vidual]

Please, Allow Me A Moment To Request We Unite In Support Of The Ron Paul Blimp (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=45546)

[JohnnyWrath]

He promotes your mom, now go away.

Just as I thought, my mom can't sing for shit....he promotes nobody...local bands.

Both of these guys are ripping off the supporters of Ron Paul....I am not going to be quiet about it.

[Mark]

We understood your points about 300 posts ago.

No you didn't. Not at all. Or you wouldn't keep repeating the same wrong information.

I'm calling them out. And they won't do it. Because they want to make money from this.

I give them a simple, fast, and legal way to do it, just, they and no one else will make any money.

And they're not interested.

Kind of VERY telling as to what they have in mind.

What do they want more? To help Dr Paul as soon as possible?

Or to make a living off of it?

Two simple choices.

And they sure have had plenty of time to pick the simple, fast, and FREE one.

And they're not interested. They want to make money. I called them out, they declined.

[JohnnyWrath]

Johnnyw., not saying that I disagree with alot of what you say but when you keep pounding your point people will start reacting negatively to what you have to say.

We just need to be a little patient and see what we're given in response to our concerns and go from there.

You with me?

OK, I just don't want anybody being taken is all. The idea was great, but it all changed.

[GorGor]

...and make sure every penny goes towards the blimp or back to the person who donated if enough isn't collected....


So let's ponder a bit beyond the invoice for the blimp itself. The blimp flies 6 hours a day. The organizer/s that are on board with the flights will sleep on the blimp? Have you ever taken a long road trip and slept in your vehicle? Sure it works ok for a 1200 mile trip when you just need a few hours of sleep once or twice throughout your travel time. It really gets old quick when going on a three day cross country trip. Where I am going with this is that hotels and food will need to be paid for. Hopefully, the personal expenses like this will need to be paid for more than 30 days. Even if the blimp only flies for 30 days, that's still a lot of cash. $60/day for a motel per one or two people, $15/day for crappy food per person, plus other daily expenses like laundry and such.

Also factor in that we want this blimp to fly for longer than 30 days. So these organizers are supposed to give up their lives and not be compensated for it??? Your nuts.

Not too many people can exist without a paycheck for a week let alone a month or longer. Whether or not an individual can exist without a paycheck for a month or longer is irrelevant, they shouldn't have to or be expected to.

There needs to be daily and direct involvement from the organizers throughout the blimp project. It's silly to think that if $350k is donated to this project, that $350k should be given directly to flight hours for the blimp for the length of time involvement needed.

[Indy Vidual]

...They want to make money...


Dr. Ron Paul approves of (honest) people trying to make money off of the Revolution.

Do you have any doubt the above statement is true?

[Mark]

Dr. Ron Paul approves of (honest) people trying to make money off of the Revolution.

Do you have any doubt the above statement is true?

Yes, when it comes to volunteers using a volunteer forum.

Yes, I disagree wholeheartedly with for-profit companies using this volunteer forum to make money for themselves.

[slantedview]

Yes, when it comes to volunteers using a volunteer forum.

Yes, I disagree wholeheartedly with for-profit companies using this volunteer forum to make money for themselves.
if you're insinuating that the blimp project is driven by profit motives and not by support for ron paul, you're completely out of line.

[Mark]

We just need to be a little patient and see what we're given in response to our concerns and go from there.



Just how much patience should we exercise when they could have put the whole thing to rest hours ago

by simply saying they will not take any money for themselves and refund the money if the blimp doesn't fly soon?

How does it take any patience to write what I just did?

I'll tell you how much it takes. None. And they won't do it.

[slantedview]

Just how much patience should we exercise when they could have put the whole thing to rest hours ago

by simply saying they will not take any money for themselves and refund the money if the blimp doesn't fly soon?

How does it take any patience to write what I just did?

I'll tell you how much it takes. None. And they won't do it.

no they couldn't put the whole thing to rest hours ago because they are busy as hell doing a million things aside from sorting out the legal technicalities that need to be sorted out before more precise information can be presented.

all of the descriptive information about the company, much of which is still forthcoming, has to be absolutely accurate, and legally solid. if you can't be patient, sorry.

[Mark]

if you're insinuating that the blimp project is driven by profit motives and not by support for ron paul, you're completely out of line.

Oh really, where have you been? That's the whole point of the conversation.

The web site and they themselves have stated many times that they're driven by profit motives.


And they've also stated that NO MONEY WILL BE REFUNDED whether the blimp ever flys or not.

[rrroae]

if you're insinuating that the blimp project is driven by profit motives and not by support for ron paul, you're completely out of line.

No they're not. It's a legitimate question in light of recent events.

But we shouldn't be to quick to judge until we hear the response from Elijah and Trevor.

It would be nice if everyone could take a 12 hr cooling off period just so we can get the emotion out of here.

[Mark]

no they couldn't put the whole thing to rest hours ago because they are busy as hell doing a million things aside from sorting out the legal technicalities that need to be sorted out before more precise information can be presented.

all of the descriptive information about the company, much of which is still forthcoming, has to be absolutely accurate, and legally solid. if you can't be patient, sorry.


It took me less than 30 seconds to write what they need to write to put the whole thing to rest.

They're too busy asking how much money people think they should be paid for it.

[Hook]

It would be extraordinarily nice if Mark and JohnnyWrath would STFU until tomorrow when the email goes out.

[steph3n]

It would be extraordinarily nice if Mark and JohnnyWrath woud STFU until tomorrow when the email goes out.

They are still ranting? Ignore is nice I recommend everyone try it out :D

[Mark]

So these organizers are supposed to give up their lives and not be compensated for it??? Your nuts.



Why? Every other single person on this volunteer board has been doing it. Except them.

They're the only ones looking for a way to support themselves from their project.

[Mark]

It would be extraordinarily nice if Mark and JohnnyWrath would STFU until tomorrow when the email goes out.

It'd be extremely nice if you would follow your own advice before expecting someone else to follow it.

Okay, maybe I should shut up here, and spend my time calling the authorities over what is obviously a scam.

Thanks for the idea.

[rrroae]

It took me less than 30 seconds to write what they need to write to put the whole thing to rest.

They're too busy asking how much money people think they should be paid for it.

I hear what your saying and mostly agree but you're hurting my ears.

There are question that need answered quickly but I can see the need for them to talk some things out(salary,...if, how and who pays).

We've been promised a reply shortly and think it may be best to see what they have to say before we go any further.

...And if they don't answer satisfactorily, ....I'm right behind ya.

[rrroae]

It would be extraordinarily nice if Mark and JohnnyWrath would STFU until tomorrow when the email goes out.

Nice diplomacy bud.

Sure it helped out.

[RlxdN10sity]

This is called supply and demand.
Demand: Blimp exposing people to Ron Paul as Presidential candidate in 08
Supply: Blimp company, graphics artist, and someone cooridinating operations between funding (demandees) and recipients of funding (suppliers). I have no problem with someone being compensated for their time and energy if we get what we want. Choice A - pay run of the mill blimp salesman with no particular concern about Ron Paul, or Choice B - pay proven devotees of the Ron Paul revolution coordinating every detail of the operation.

PS. I would love to work full time for the Revolution and get a paycheck substantial enough to satisfy my expenses, so if anyone knows of any openings please send me an application, I think it would be the best job in the world. Go Ron Paul!

[torchbearer]

I hope we can get the funds... without some giant act of goodwill, we may not get it off the ground... but i have an idea...

Perhaps minutes, could be like shares... and your shares give you voting power on project direction... which them should be executed by our paid friends.
Kind of like a board of directors.. or like cooperations vote for their boards...
Or actually, if they could incorporate and sell shares.. this thing will be lifting off tomorrow.

[rjo43084]

I hope we can get the funds... without some giant act of goodwill, we may not get it off the ground... but i have an idea...

Perhaps minutes, could be like shares... and your shares give you voting power on project direction... which them should be executed by our paid friends.
Kind of like a board of directors.. or like cooperations vote for their boards...
Or actually, if they could incorporate and sell shares.. this thing will be lifting off tomorrow.

Excellent suggestion...

[torchbearer]

Excellent suggestion...

I think incorporation would ignite investment interest, not just goodwill donations.

[slantedview]

It would be extraordinarily nice if Mark and JohnnyWrath would STFU until tomorrow when the email goes out.
we could only hope to be so lucky.

[CelestialRender]

I'm not a one-time poster. I share all the above concerns.

[LibertyEagle]

Trevor will very likley be taking a MASSIVE pay cut in doing this at any rate.

He moved from Miami and miami is BIG TIME on the music scene. I mean BIG TIME music promoters that can make a killing EASILY

Is Trevor one of the people who will be flying the blimp? If so, perhaps he shouldn't be one of the ones doing so. That is, if he was making so much money.

[LibertyEagle]

It would be extraordinarily nice if Mark and JohnnyWrath would STFU until tomorrow when the email goes out.

Interesting thought. Frankly, I think they have raised some good points that need answers.

[Cyclone]

I have a few simple questions:

1. How much money are the folks who are running this project going to make? (All of them)?

2. Where is the money going that is coming in as revenue from the advertising sales that is above and beyond your operating expenses?

3. Why is this a for profit venture, Elijah's post did not explain anything to me?

4. How long does this thing need to be in the air and why?

5. What happens if this project never gets off the ground, do the people that have donated so far get their money back?

6. When you write that there will be no refunds are you talking about for the advertising venture? If so, how can you do that? Don't people who pay for advertising usually get what they paid for? How often do folks agree to such a deal?

7. You make it clear under the Terms of Purchase that "you are not making a donation to any political candidate or committee. " This implies that you cannot use any excess funds you make from the advertising to help Ron Paul in any way or support other grass roots efforts to support him either, including supporting grass roots efforts for any TV, radio, or newspaper ads.

8. I have a million questions about your terms of service because every other sentence seems to contradict the one before, but these are minor - not of course to those that would be purchasing from you - but they are minor to the people who are outright donating to your project.

[Cyclone]

bump

[Cyclone]

Why? Every other single person on this volunteer board has been doing it. Except them.

They're the only ones looking for a way to support themselves from their project.


QFT

[Cyclone]

Ok just because I am a first time poster does not mean I am a troll or a "political operative". I just wanted to ask some questions about the blimp project in the hopes that someone had the legal knowledge to answer me sufficiently on these issues. I'm sorry, but doesn't it seem just a little out of place that one of the most ambitious projects yet in the Ron Paul Revolution suddenly changes its method of operation completely. I thought this was a grassroots movement that held the people as a whole in high regard. If so, then shouldn't this switch to a for-profit LLC have been posted in all the Ron Paul forums by the people running the project BEFORE all this happened, so that fellow supporters could discuss it and raise any concerns they may have?

I am a first time poster because this is something I was really concerned about. I don't want people getting screwed out of money, and I felt that my questions were reasonable. The fact that I was immediately labeled a "political operative", simply because I asked a couple questions about a switch in the operations of ronpaulblimp.com that I found suspect, is disheartening to me. I realize a lot of people are trying to derail Ron Paul and the Revolution, but to become this paranoid just because some questions are posted does not show the true strength of this movement...

I deeply regret how you have been treated here. I too am greatly disheartened. You made some excellent points, asked basic questions that should be easily answered by any legitimate operation and suddenly all forum rules that people should not attack each other personally have gone out the window.


You are not the first new or relatively new person to come in with some rational questions and been run out of town on the railroad. I deeply apologize to you. You sound like a very rational individual and would have made an excellent asset. I don't suppose you will be around to ever read this. I for one wish you would stick around and continue to make some excellent observations.

[Revolution9]

Quoted for truth.

Look at the bottom of my sig. I have a legal non-profit church of 9 years that is not 501(c)3, and thus is not under the restrictions of non-endorsement like a 501(c)3 Church is.

I've already offered to accept donations and use every penny, 100% of donations towards the blimp. And if it doesn't fly, I can give it back or spend it on campaign materials and ads in whatever way would mostly benefit the campaign.

I'm ready to go. I've been ready for 9 years now,

won't that work better than paying the salaries of the owners of a for-profit company out of the donations?

My ouija board foray says that is not accurate.<here's looking atcha pal> Do NOT funnel money to this guy.

Randy