Nearly Half of Detroit Residents Can't Pay Their Water Bill; UN May Step In

[AuH20]

Yikes.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/06/23/nearly-half-of-detroit-water-customers-cant-pay-their-bill/


According to the Free Press, the average Detroit water bill is now $75 a month — much higher than the nation’s average rate of about $40.



Garner said the reality is that nearly half of Detroit Water and Sewerage customers can’t pay their bills and that has led activists to lobby the UN to step up and take action.

“If they do contact us we are willing to speak with them,” she said, adding “We owe it to the customers that are paying to collect from those that aren’t. Somebody has to pay for the water.”

And while Garner says water is “a God-given right,” she says there is a cost to move water from the water resource to the customer and that the infrastructure costs money.

[Lindsey]

At $75/month, that's $900/year. I wonder at what point it makes sense to have a well dug.

[Zippyjuan]

A local group is asking for UN help but as of yet the UN has not even expressed any interest in Detroit water rates. I highly doubt they will have any interest in the problem. "UN May Step In" implies (incorrectly) that the UN has been investigating the problem and is concerned enough to consider possible involvement. They aren't going to "step in".


that has led activists to lobby the UN to step up and take action.

[tod evans]

Well thank goodness!

Detroit residences aren't getting enough free stuff just for being there their water bill should be paid too...:rolleyes:





Fence the damn place off and COD the lot of 'em for everything they don't grow!

[eduardo89]

I hate headlines like this.

No, the UN will not step in. The UN has no power to step in.

[Acala]

At $75/month, that's $900/year. I wonder at what point it makes sense to have a well dug.
Where I live, the water utility lobbied the legislature for a state law prohibiting any new private wells in areas served by the utility. Chew on that for a minute.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Where I live, the water utility lobbied the legislature for a state law prohibiting any new private wells in areas served by the utility. Chew on that for a minute.

That's just wrong!!

[kahless]

Where I live, the water utility lobbied the legislature for a state law prohibiting any new private wells in areas served by the utility. Chew on that for a minute.

You see that or the utility does not drill their community well deep enough and dries up all residential private wells in the area. They then end up with a boat load of new customers.

[jbauer]

Where I live, the water utility lobbied the legislature for a state law prohibiting any new private wells in areas served by the utility. Chew on that for a minute.

I think its that way in most places if you are inside the city limits.

[CPUd]

http://i.imgur.com/FMRqEPq.jpg

[angelatc]

Here's a scoop. My friend works managing a big condo complex in Detroit. For some unknown reason, none of the tenants receive water bills. They are on city water. Each unit has a separate meter. No tenant (or the building's common areas) ever get a bill.

Over the past couple of years, she has spent hours and hours and hours on the phone, with city council, the mayor, the utility.....they all tell her that is not possible and refuse to look into the problem. She's pretty much given up now, but she has a note book full of names and dates and conversations.

That's just another example of how screwed up Detroit is.

[aGameOfThrones]

collecting rain water is illegal....

[TheCount]

At $75/month, that's $900/year. I wonder at what point it makes sense to have a well dug.

Illegal.


Also, the problem is that the utility maintains an entire city's worth of pipes and equipment to supply 1/10th of a city worth of people. Similar to the rest of the city's non-corruption related problems.

[angelatc]

collecting rain water is illegal....

Source?

[otherone]

Source?

ummm,
The sky
(duh)

:D

[jbauer]

Source?
Rand Paul's book and many other articles.

[2young2vote]

Rand Paul's book and many other articles.

Then use a de-humidifier. We get probably 2 gallons a day. Less in the winter. That is more than enough for drinking water.

Edit:

Oh, i forgot, they probably can't/won't pay their electric bills either. Nevermind.

[scottditzen]

Where I live, the water utility lobbied the legislature for a state law prohibiting any new private wells in areas served by the utility. Chew on that for a minute.

Detroit is right in the middle of the greatest fresh water resource on earth. Water should cost very little...perplexing.

[eduardo89]

Detroit is right in the middle of the greatest fresh water resource on earth. Water should cost very little...perplexing.

Isn't Lake Michigan extremely polluted?

[Acala]

Isn't Lake Michigan extremely polluted?

Northern Lake Michigan is pretty clean but Detroit is pretty far from Lake Michigan. Detroit is close to Lake Erie and it is probably not a good choice for drinking water. Lake Huron is pure as natural water can get and isn't far.

[Acala]

Illegal.



Depends on the State. It isn't illegal in Arizona.

[oyarde]

At $75/month, that's $900/year. I wonder at what point it makes sense to have a well dug.
My bill runs about $32 and I have a well for back up .

[oyarde]

Here's a scoop. My friend works managing a big condo complex in Detroit. For some unknown reason, none of the tenants receive water bills. They are on city water. Each unit has a separate meter. No tenant (or the building's common areas) ever get a bill.

Over the past couple of years, she has spent hours and hours and hours on the phone, with city council, the mayor, the utility.....they all tell her that is not possible and refuse to look into the problem. She's pretty much given up now, but she has a note book full of names and dates and conversations.

That's just another example of how screwed up Detroit is.
I went through this with a rental I had , every two or three yrs they would send me a bill for the entire amount , I pd it the first time , second time I just threw it away . They put a lien on the property , I am sure. Like I care .When I am dead , somebody else can worry about that $400, lol

[pcosmar]

Detroit is right in the middle of the greatest fresh water resource on earth. Water should cost very little...perplexing.

YOU WOULD THINK.
but then there is the mismanagement and graft involved in every aspect of Detroit government.

Every petty bureaucrat,, and corrupt official needs to get their cut. It drives costs up.

[amy31416]

Here's a scoop. My friend works managing a big condo complex in Detroit. For some unknown reason, none of the tenants receive water bills. They are on city water. Each unit has a separate meter. No tenant (or the building's common areas) ever get a bill.

Over the past couple of years, she has spent hours and hours and hours on the phone, with city council, the mayor, the utility.....they all tell her that is not possible and refuse to look into the problem. She's pretty much given up now, but she has a note book full of names and dates and conversations.

That's just another example of how screwed up Detroit is.

I was listening to NPR for a bit this morning, and they were discussing how wonderful it is that the city's found some money to demolish about half of their blighted buildings.

Pretty pathetic when that's the silver lining on the bankruptcy cloud.

[oyarde]

I was listening to NPR for a bit this morning, and they were discussing how wonderful it is that the city's found some money to demolish about half of their blighted buildings.

Pretty pathetic when that's the silver lining on the bankruptcy cloud.

Yep , I bet NPR did not say where they " found " the money though .

[oyarde]

I hate headlines like this.

No, the UN will not step in. The UN has no power to step in.

What if I offered Detroit to the UN for 134K ? lol

[osan]

At $75/month, that's $900/year. I wonder at what point it makes sense to have a well dug.

If you would drink from a well in Detroit you are in serious need of having your brain examined for lesions.

[osan]

A local group is asking for UN help but as of yet the UN has not even expressed any interest in Detroit water rates. I highly doubt they will have any interest in the problem. "UN May Step In" implies (incorrectly) that the UN has been investigating the problem and is concerned enough to consider possible involvement. They aren't going to "step in".

I suspect you are correct on this. However, I also suspect you may have missed a couple of deeper points such as the fact that anyone here is lobbying for UN interference in the sovereign affairs of an American community. It is an indication of the degree to which the rot of the progressive mindset has permeated. This is certainly not a good sign.

Another point you may not have apprehended is the fact that if some stooge outfit in bumphuk WV can deliver water 25 miles from Spencer to my home for about $30/month, why are the progressive liberal world-savior-experts in Detroit unable to do the same over what I presume to be far shorter distances?

The worst deal of the past year or so was when a court approved Detroit's bankruptcy petition. Detroit should have been left to burn to the waterline. Get real or get bent.

[osan]

The UN has no power to step in.

It does if Theye ask and "we" let them.

[osan]

Where I live, the water utility lobbied the legislature for a state law prohibiting any new private wells in areas served by the utility. Chew on that for a minute.

Feh... as if I needed to solicit permission. One can always sink their own well - under "normal" circumstances it is not a terribly difficult thing to do and the local "authorities" can go get stuffed.

[osan]

YOU WOULD THINK.
but then there is the mismanagement and graft involved in every aspect of Detroit government.

Every petty bureaucrat,, and corrupt official needs to get their cut. It drives costs up.

Whatever happened to that plan to revert large tracts of Detroit to farmland? Has any of it been put into action... or is that just the dumbest question ever?

[thetruthhurtsthefed]

the national average is 40$ a month???!!! Come to Canada where the national average is at least double, even triple. I have not seen a water bill less than 90$ in years and I live with rain barrels all over. The country has been set up with minimum fees based on your land size and NOT your usage. I can plug my water line and still be charged 40$ month in fees. Canada, the nation that doesn't own any of its resources......I guess freedom has its price

[jbauer]

Then use a de-humidifier. We get probably 2 gallons a day. Less in the winter. That is more than enough for drinking water.

Edit:

Oh, i forgot, they probably can't/won't pay their electric bills either. Nevermind.

You wouldn't collect rain water to drink. It would be done for agricultural purposes.....or so I think.

[jbauer]

Feh... as if I needed to solicit permission. One can always sink their own well - under "normal" circumstances it is not a terribly difficult thing to do and the local "authorities" can go get stuffed.

guess that depends on where you live and how deep your water table is. If you're talking 30-40 feet, even upwards of 50 you're probably right. If you're talking 200-300 or more then I'd say the town is going to see a fairly large operation drilling your well.

[Terry1]

collecting rain water is illegal....

I think that's true in some of the south western states that get very little, but isn't even that law limited to only rain that actually hits the ground? What about cisterns? That's just crazy to make catching rainwater illegal.

[Acala]

I think that's true in some of the south western states that get very little, but isn't even that law limited to only rain that actually hits the ground? What about cisterns? That's just crazy to make catching rainwater illegal.

There is a thread on it somewhere. I seem to recall it was Utah or Colorado that made it illegal?

It actually isn't quite as crazy as it seems. Suppose you own some land with river frontage. Under traditional water law, you have rights to some of that river water. You can prevent folks upstream from damming, polluting, or otherwise depriving you of the use of your share of the river. Seems fair, right? Now suppose the river is fed entirely by surface runoff from rain fall upstream. Further suppose that people who own the land upon which the rain falls catch all that former runoff using cisterns and swales so that the river dries up. Is that different than damming the river upstream?

I'm not agreeing with the law, but I see the point.

[PRB]

collecting rain water is illegal....

even in Michigan?

[CPUd]

Speaking of infrastructure:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il08ezF-oeY

[PRB]

are these people the same ones who complain water is fluoridated and people are forced to use it?

[HOLLYWOOD]

That's only the beginning of whats to come in the U.S. ...imagine the after costs to taxpayers across the country (Courts/LEs/Prisons). We'll all have to become 'Snake Plisskens' to survive the decay in America.
Speaking of infrastructure:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il08ezF-oeY

[69360]

At $75/month, that's $900/year. I wonder at what point it makes sense to have a well dug.

Depends on how deep the water table is and what the ground is made of, I have no idea what detroit conditions are.

Sand soil and a high water table you could dig it yourself or use a sandpoint.

Average water table normal soil you can drill and case a 100 foot well for say 8k or so.

Drilling and casing hundreds of feet of bedrock and possibly fracking it can cost 20-30k and up.

Shallow dug wells can use a cheap jet pump for $200. 500 foot drilled wells need a 1 hp 230 volt submersible pump that is over $1000.

I suspect in a failed city like detroit you could just drill your well with no permits or permissions and nobody would notice or care.

[pcosmar]

You wouldn't collect rain water to drink. It would be done for agricultural purposes.....or so I think.

Why?,, People did just that for years.. Still do in many places.

[pcosmar]

Depends on how deep the water table is and what the ground is made of, I have no idea what detroit conditions are.

Sand soil and a high water table you could dig it yourself or use a sandpoint.

Average water table normal soil you can drill and case a 100 foot well for say 8k or so.

Drilling and casing hundreds of feet of bedrock and possibly fracking it can cost 20-30k and up.

Shallow dug wells can use a cheap jet pump for $200. 500 foot drilled wells need a 1 hp 230 volt submersible pump that is over $1000.

I suspect in a failed city like detroit you could just drill your well with no permits or permissions and nobody would notice or care.

It is a City.. One that was industrialized since it's inception.
Aside from the fact that it has soaked up industrial waste for years.. there is a lot underground that you would have to drill through..Gas lines,,water lines Sewage and electrical.. and that is the spots that are not concrete covered.

Are people seriously considering drilling a well in such a place?

[69360]

It is a City.. One that was industrialized since it's inception.
Aside from the fact that it has soaked up industrial waste for years.. there is a lot underground that you would have to drill through..Gas lines,,water lines Sewage and electrical.. and that is the spots that are not concrete covered.

Are people seriously considering drilling a well in such a place?


Not all of Detroit is inner city. Most of the housing seems to be almost suburban from the foreclosure pics I've seen. Single family on a 1/4 acre lot etc. I can't see any reason there couldn't be a well drilled in the backyard. Utility companies will come out and mark the lines for you if you ask before digging. Some places the people who stay are the only house on the block, the rest have been knocked down, so it's like living on a few acres.

Still I can't even imagine living in Detroit.

[CPUd]

This one is pretty cool. Watch in HD if you can:

http://i.imgur.com/SBepRGo.jpg

[PRB]

Not all of Detroit is inner city. Most of the housing seems to be almost suburban from the foreclosure pics I've seen. Single family on a 1/4 acre lot etc. I can't see any reason there couldn't be a well drilled in the backyard. Utility companies will come out and mark the lines for you if you ask before digging. Some places the people who stay are the only house on the block, the rest have been knocked down, so it's like living on a few acres.

Still I can't even imagine living in Detroit.

Since you're not living there, it won't matter what you think or what we say.

But seriously, safety issues aside, like PCS said, it's an industrialized city, does the quality of water bother you at all?

[69360]

Since you're not living there, it won't matter what you think or what we say.

But seriously, safety issues aside, like PCS said, it's an industrialized city, does the quality of water bother you at all?

I doubt the aquifers are polluted. The earth is the best filter out there.

Maybe a shallow dug well near a former industrial site would be polluted, but a drilled well a couple hundred feet down is probably just fine.

[pcosmar]

I doubt the aquifers are polluted. The earth is the best filter out there.

Maybe a shallow dug well near a former industrial site would be polluted, but a drilled well a couple hundred feet down is probably just fine.

Dude,, Look at a map..Look at the water near Detroit..

Detroit has no shortage of water.. but I would not dig a well there.

Not to mention the Salt mines.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~copyrght/image/solstice/sum99/salt1.jpg

Detroit has no water shortage.. Detroit has a problem with Socialism.. and corruption.. and waste..Poor management,,etc.etc. etc.

[angelatc]

What if I offered Detroit to the UN for 134K ? lol

Dave and I were thinking that perhaps we could sneak in there some night and reroute the river, then tell Canada it is their problem now.

[Dr.3D]

Dave and I were thinking that perhaps we could sneak in there some night and reroute the river, then tell Canada it is their problem now.
I understand there is a salt mine under the city. The only thing holding it up is pillars of salt. Now that river somehow was allowed to flow into the mine under it,......

[PRB]

Dude,, Look at a map..Look at the water near Detroit..

Detroit has no shortage of water.. but I would not dig a well there.

Not to mention the Salt mines.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~copyrght/image/solstice/sum99/salt1.jpg

Detroit has no water shortage.. Detroit has a problem with Socialism.. and corruption.. and waste..Poor management,,etc.etc. etc.

good to know somebody knows what he's talking about.

[MRK]

$40/month water bill? $68/mo in Detroit? I thought a gallon of water was less than $0.02? (http://www.fcwa.org/story_of_water/html/costs.htm , http://answerparty.com/question/answer/what-is-the-average-price-of-a-gallon-of-water-in-america)?

I use like 10 gallons a day tops when you include dishes, the toilet, showering, and drinking. Many days I probably use less than 5. If that's too much you can always stop taking showers every day and stop taking 10 minute showers, you don't really need to, especially if you're sitting on a couch all day unemployed not breaking a sweat. Showers take 2.5 gallons per minute maximum. Of course there's nothing wrong with using a lot of water as long as you can afford it.

I pay $5/month in a third world country that is supposed to have a shortage of clean water in the rural areas.

I don't see how the UN can make a case to intervene here with a straight face. The people already have access to cheap and plentiful water. $68 per month sounds like it's being used to excess way past the point of necessity.

Now if the bills are abnormally high due to the industrial expense of pumping water into grow houses, that would make sense.

[PRB]

$40/month water bill? $68/mo in Detroit? I thought a gallon of water was less than $0.02? (http://www.fcwa.org/story_of_water/html/costs.htm , http://answerparty.com/question/answer/what-is-the-average-price-of-a-gallon-of-water-in-america)?


Depends on where you live. But at worst, you can buy drinkable water for 30 cents a gallon.



I use like 10 gallons a day tops when you include dishes, the toilet, showering, and drinking. Many days I probably use less than 5. If that's too much you can always stop taking showers every day and stop taking 10 minute showers, you don't really need to, especially if you're sitting on a couch all day unemployed not breaking a sweat. Showers take 2.5 gallons per minute maximum. Of course there's nothing wrong with using a lot of water as long as you can afford it.


Using your 10 x .02 x 30 = $6 a month?



I pay $5/month in a third world country that is supposed to have a shortage of clean water in the rural areas.


Where is that?



I don't see how the UN can make a case to intervene here with a straight face. The people already have access to cheap and plentiful water. $68 per month sounds like it's being used to excess way past the point of necessity.


Or the fees are too high without competition. $70 a month isn't much at all, not having water is much more expensive than $70 a month.



Now if the bills are abnormally high due to the industrial expense of pumping water into grow houses, that would make sense.

In Detroit? Nah.

[devil21]

Any time an American city and the UN are included in the same headline I wonder to what end?

[donnay]

Any time an American city and the UN are included in the same headline I wonder to what end?

Agenda 21

[PRB]

Agenda 21

big deal.

Ask this guy to teach you how to live without water. He's apparently very good at it.


I gone two weeks and probably close to your three without drinking water, and I'm still around.

[Zippyjuan]

$40/month water bill? $68/mo in Detroit? I thought a gallon of water was less than $0.02? (http://www.fcwa.org/story_of_water/html/costs.htm , http://answerparty.com/question/answer/what-is-the-average-price-of-a-gallon-of-water-in-america)?

I use like 10 gallons a day tops when you include dishes, the toilet, showering, and drinking. Many days I probably use less than 5. If that's too much you can always stop taking showers every day and stop taking 10 minute showers, you don't really need to, especially if you're sitting on a couch all day unemployed not breaking a sweat. Showers take 2.5 gallons per minute maximum. Of course there's nothing wrong with using a lot of water as long as you can afford it.

I pay $5/month in a third world country that is supposed to have a shortage of clean water in the rural areas.

I don't see how the UN can make a case to intervene here with a straight face. The people already have access to cheap and plentiful water. $68 per month sounds like it's being used to excess way past the point of necessity.

Now if the bills are abnormally high due to the industrial expense of pumping water into grow houses, that would make sense.

Shower uses 2-4 gallons a minute. One toilet flush- 1.5- 3 gallons. One flush and two minutes in the shower and you are at ten gallons. http://water.usgs.gov/edu/qa-home-percapita.html Laundry? 20- 40 gallons per load. Dishwasher- about 20 gallons a load. All depend on how efficient your appliances are. If you have older ones, you will be using the higher figures.


I don't see how the UN can make a case to intervene here with a straight face. The people already have access to cheap and plentiful water.

The UN isn't considering getting involved. But some people would like them to.

[acptulsa]

What if I offered Detroit to the UN for 134K ? lol

Nah, you'd have to pay them lots more than that to take it off your hands.

They're obnoxious, not stupid.