Flight Path to Victory - PLEASE READ

[TCrage]

Hello, my name is Tom Crage. I have had Ron Paul Fever since February and have kept up with almost everything that has happened, as best I could. I donated $500 in the 3rd qtr, $1,000 on Nov 5, and plan to give the remaining $800 on Dec 16 (not to mention the uncounted $,$$$ personally spent). I have actively participated in South Florida in the meet-up scene, attended the Fort Lauderdale debate and rally, the St Petersburg rally, and am doing what I can to help the one planned for Dec 9 in Miami. I will be putting full effort into helping anyway I can here in my 40-year home-town, Boca Raton, for the debate scheduled for Jan 23 at Florida Atlantic Univ. www.fau.edu/debates (http://www.fau.edu/debates)(www required).

I, like many, am excited about the blimp idea. It really is a magnificent achievement for the grassroots effort. Blimps are common in my area of Florida and I can tell you they ARE effective. However, everyone has to remember it is a marketing tool, and is mainly only effective if it is seen. We already know that we cannot rely on national media coverage as the primary mode of visibility. Voters need to see it with their own eyes, as seeing is believing.

After finding out the blimp would start at Elizabeth City, NC, I began looking at the maps and applying the knowledge I have gained over the last 9 months. I have come up with what I believe is a coordinated Air/Ground campaign to maximize the chances of what we are all trying to achieve, electing Ron Paul.

First thing to consider is that without wins in the early primary states, the game is over. Currently, the 6 early primary are:

Iowa: 01/03/2008
Wyoming: 01/05/2008
New Hampshire: 01/08/2008
Michigan: 01/15/2008
Nevada: 01/19/2008
South Carolina: 01/26/2008
Florida: 01/29/2008

Out of these 6, the two a blimp would have the most impact in are South Carolina and Florida. People have suggested going to Boston. I believe this would be a mistake. Over one third of the month’s flight time would be spent just going there and coming back to South Carolina, and that’s without fly around time added in. I would argue that the effect of going to Boston would be negligible when considering that it almost solely relies on media coverage and people paying any attention to that coverage. I would also argue that the impact on funds raised Dec 16 is likewise not worth the cost and lost potential.

What I am proposing is a flight path to maximize exposure in a coordinated Air and Ground effort throughout South Carolina and Florida. I strongly believe that massive positive local new coverage is the key to victory in these states. Currently, Ron Paul has three HQ’s in South Carolina: Greenville, Columbia, and Charleston. According to Wiki, “other notable incorporated cities” are Anderson, Aiken, Beaufort, Florence, Georgetown, Greenwood, Hilton Head Island, Moncks Corner, Mount Pleasant, Myrtle Beach, Newberry, North Charleston, Orangeburg, Rock Hill, Spartanburg, North Augusta, Lexington and Sumter.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Carolina

I overlaid the state map with the population density map and added my proposed flight path. Landing sites are shown as black dots and flight legs alternate between blue and purple. Commercial airports are located in Columbia, Charleston, Greenville/Spartanburg, Florence, Myrtle Beach, and Hilton Head Island.

Proposed Flight Path:
http://thumbnails2.imagebam.com/113/f1bde11129835.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/f1bde11129835)

First landing: Spartanburg - Why? Remember this?

See: GOP maverick Paul shunned in Spartanburg (http://www.goupstate.com/article/20070704/NEWS/707040336/-1/news100)

By landing here first, we are announcing to the South Carolina GOP that we are extending the ultimate olive branch and here to win their support by offering ours. We will put the GOP in Greenville/Spartanburg and upstate South Carolina in the history books as being the first destination of the Ron Paul Blimp. It is approximately 350 miles from the starting home base of Elizabeth City and should be capable of being reached in 1 flight day. This should be coordinated with the local meet-up groups for landing and takeoff rallies. The Greenville HQ people can show up and invite others even though it has nothing to do with the official campaign. This could be the start of a huge publicity coop in South Carolina.

The proposed flight path has 8 landing spots. Spartanburg, Greenville, Columbia, Aiken, Sumter, Myrtle Beach, Charleston, and Hilton Head. It also provides fly over time to Clemson, Anderson, Clinton, Greenwood, Newberry, Lexington, North Augusta, Orangeburg, Florence, Georgetown, The Citadel, Moncks Corner, Mount Pleasant, and Beaufort.

Each landing spot should be coordinated with a rally. One way to really make good publicity would be to have a Ron Paul Grassroots toy drive at each landing. People could send unwrapped toys to the three HQ’s to be handed out to parents and children that come see the blimp. Meet-up volunteers could transport the toys to the locations ahead of the blimp.

More fly-over days could be included in the Greenville, Columbia, and Charleston areas for maximum exposure. By ending in Hilton Head, the blimp is in position to make it to Jacksonville in one flight day arriving before Christmas.

I have begun looking over Florida, as I know it well but I would first like some feedback as to whether I should bother, because I have no control over the planning. To cover Florida will require at least 2 weeks and could be planned to end up in the west panhandle for exit out towards the Super Bowl in Arizona if desired. The big event for Florida would be Orlando New Years Eve and New Years Day. It is a big hot spot for New Years celebrations and the University of Florida Gators are playing Illinois in the bowl game there on New Years Day. Major Florida coverage there.

People local to each leg of the flight can plan the actual flight path for that leg. I am only suggesting a general path.

Please give this proposal consideration and I ask for your opinions and constructive criticism. If it is well receive, we can talk details.

Thank you,

Tom

[asmartchimp]

I completely agree.

[hillertexas]

+1

[Ethek]

We should get you and the guys doing the math models together.

[Kalash]

I don't think marking it as spam was necessary.

He makes a lot of good points.

And mentions a few big events - where the local populace will be taking notice.


If clearance from ATC cannot be granted for NYE at Time Square - I think this would make an EXCELLENT alternative plan.

It'd be nice if the clearances needed were applied for now - this is doable.

If they are denied - this alternative plan may be a much better option.

Alternatives are good - not spam.

[Menthol Patch]

I think the Blimp needs to be in Boston for the Tea Party.

[Kalash]

I still think the biggest problem with all of this is converting to a 1 hour ticket for passengers.

If you're stopping every 60 miles for 30+ minutes...
You're cutting your MPH down - by almost or more than half.

[Ethek]

But this is your first post on here????? I marked this as spam.

Here's why:



It needs to be in major events, not cornfields. Those events have already been discussed extensively.

South Carolina is fairly populated. Also the hook with this project is not people catching sight of the blimp by happen chance. Its the draw from local nightly newscasts and the offbeat pieces this huge BLIMP would generate in the local press. It would go a long long way to cut down on Pauls 'unfavorable' rating in an early primary.

The scrap thrown our way from a national newscast by having a blimp in a non primary state such as MA would not be nearly as valuable. Not even close.

[Ethek]

I still think the biggest problem with all of this is converting to a 1 hour ticket for passengers.

If you're stopping every 60 miles for 30+ minutes...
You're cutting your MPH down - by almost or more than half.

I'll donate my ticket to a local childrens hospital or something. I dont care. I have no ambition to ride personally just get this thing in the air.

[francisco]

December 16th will be, we hope, a huge fundraiser and a major news story, just as Nov. 5th was. TeaParty is the theme. It is the next really big thing that will happen. There will be a major rally in Boston, site of the original tea party, that day.

We need to put together our efforts so they support and build on each other. Having the blimp appear as a visual on TV broadcasts that day will give added interest to the TeaParty ("look at the creative energy of the Ron Paul grassroots, they organized the blimp on their own, too!") and give a tremendous boost to the Blimp itself. It will put the Blimp on the radar screen of people everywhere and will inspire them to track its progress.

it would be absolutely NUTS to not have the Blimp in Boston on Dec. 16, unless weather conditions do not allow it. It was always part of the formulation and the new website explicitly states that it will happen. It is a part of the proposition that purchasers of the time shares are relying upon.

[BeFranklin]

I think the Blimp needs to be in Boston for the Tea Party.

Yep.

[BeFranklin]

December 16th will be, we hope, a huge fundraiser and a major news story, just as Nov. 5th was. TeaParty is the theme. It is the next really big thing that will happen. There will be a major rally in Boston, site of the original tea party, that day.

We need to put together our efforts so they support and build on each other. Having the blimp appear as a visual on TV broadcasts that day will give added interest to the TeaParty ("look at the creative energy of the Ron Paul grassroots, they organized the blimp on their own, too!") and give a tremendous boost to the Blimp itself. It will put the Blimp on the radar screen of people everywhere and will inspire them to track its progress.

it would be absolutely NUTS to not have the Blimp in Boston on Dec. 16, unless weather conditions do not allow it. It was always part of the formulation and the new website explicitly states that it will happen. It is a part of the proposition that purchasers of the time shares are relying upon.

I know. We're getting a lot of first post posters who are coming on specifically to stop the blimp. This post was a first time post too.

[Mckarnin]

I still think the biggest problem with all of this is converting to a 1 hour ticket for passengers.

If you're stopping every 60 miles for 30+ minutes...
You're cutting your MPH down - by almost or more than half.


My guess is that there will be "blimp ride" locations only in specific cities along the way and there will be perhaps one or two pick up and drop offs for each location.

For example..there will be 20 1-hour ride tickets issued for Boston, 20 1-hour ride tickets for New York City, 10 1-hour ride tickets for Pittsburgh, etc... People who win or recieve rides will have a chance to drive to the nearest city that is having a pick up or two and redeem their ticket there. I don't think the blimp will be picking people up and dropping them off all along the way. I think other than the specific blimp ride locations they'll only land when they need to for food, fuel, breaks or whatever the crew usually does.

I don't know how long it takes to land a blimp, if the landing pattern and landing take 30 minutes it would be very different than if it took 2 hours.

[Tarzan]

The initial flight is planned from the launch point near Elizabeth City, NC to Boston, MA. What we are trying to accomplish is as much exposure as possible on the maiden run. The Washington/Boston corridor is estimated to have 44 million people living there... about 16 percent of the total US population.

In addition the major media is located along the route... in particular New York. A rought itinerary is being planned. We are trying to take into account weather, layovers and flight time to make sure the blimp arrives in time for the TeaParty07 event.

The current route included 81 Universities and Colleges. Most are major universities! At the same time several military bases will be overflown as FAA restrictions allow. And, the 44+ million Americans along the route will have an opportunity to see the blimp. Other Americans (and the world) will see it as it and the rallys are covered by the MSM. We have begun work to coordinate with the RP supporter groups along the route. Plans are still in discussion but will move forward quickly as time is short. The idea is to have Ron Paul supporters know the schedule of the blimp to be on hand to answer any questions about RP. This will be a great opportunity to start a discussion with potential converts. The flight path will make it very difficult for the MSM to avoid coverage.

The flight plan and coordination with the Ron Paul "ground forces" is not a simple matter. There are a number of considerations... weather, allowable flight time, FAA restrictions and more. We are trying to make the best decision possible with all factors being considered.

We need to focus our efforts on making the largest impact possible. Traveling the Washington/Boston corridor should ensure this... and, it will have an effect in SC as well. We need to do well in as many of the early primaries as possible. Reaching Iowa is not feasible and has been ruled out. A flight to New Hampshire is definitely being planned. Since the NH primary is on Jan 8th and SC is on Jan 19th a trip to SC is being planned at the end of the NH primary. Keep in mind that nothing is finalized as yet.

We need to get the money in hand to make all of this a reality. Things ARE progressing but there are a LOT of details and work. We will also have a short turn around in working with the RP supporter groups along the initial flight route. Please give us your support to make the initial flight and TeaParty07 and huge success.

And, just thing... Dec 16th is on a weekend... anyone who can drive to Boston for the event should come. Make a day or weekend of the event. Create a Ron Paul caravan to the Tea Party in Boston! Wear your RP shirts... bring your RP signs... bring your friends and family... be polite and considerate so we can win converts, votes and the election!

[TCrage]

Well, I took the time to actually look at maps and lay out a workable flight plan that maximized exposure in the key early primaries as the RonPaulBlimp.com site asked, and I was rewarded with being called a spammer. Nice.

Thanks for the welcome, Ben.

I hope cooler heads prevail and those who care about getting Paul elected and not just promoting an event will take this plan into consideration.

[Tarzan]

Well, I took the time to actually look at maps and lay out a workable flight plan that maximized exposure in the key early primaries as the RonPaulBlimp.com site asked, and I was rewarded with being called a spammer. Nice.

Well... I didn't call you a spammer. Instead I tried to lay out the thinking behind the initial flight and the effort to get Ron Paul elected. THAT REALLY IS THE GOAL. If RP was leading in all the poles I would be sleeping instead of working on this stuff.

I, for one, genuinely appreciate your effort and understand the challenge. The TeaParty07 will be a key event and rally point... the MSM exposure will have major effects in ALL primaries... SC is definitely in planning as is FL. We WILL need help from every RP supporter to make this effective... not as a promotional stunt... but as a promotional stunt that brings in more donations to the campaign, more awareness of the RP message and more converts who will vote for RP so he will become the next President.

[TCrage]

Well... I didn't call you a spammer. Instead I tried to lay out the thinking behind the initial flight and the effort to get Ron Paul elected. THAT REALLY IS THE GOAL. If RP was leading in all the poles I would be sleeping instead of working on this stuff.

Ditto.


I, for one, genuinely appreciate your effort and understand the challenge. The TeaParty07 will be a key event and rally point... the MSM exposure will have major effects in ALL primaries... SC is definitely in planning as is FL. We WILL need help from every RP supporter to make this effective... not as a promotional stunt... but as a promotional stunt that brings in more donations to the campaign, more awareness of the RP message and more converts who will vote for RP so he will become the next President.

Thank you. I agree that the TeaParty will be a key event. My arguement is that the blimp does not need to be there to ensure a big event. It already has life of it's own. I would like to hear a flight plan that includes Boston, NH, SC and FL. Personally, I can't see how it is posible. I have no problem whatsoever being shown that I am wrong, but so far nothing has shown that. I honestly don't see how being in Boston is neccessary to the promotional stunt, how much more in donations to the campaign for being in Boston is questionable, and the awareness of the RP message and more converts who will vote for RP so he will become the next President is needed most in SC/FL.

In my opinion, it isn't the quantity of people that see it, it is getting the right people to see it. Reliance on the MSM for grandious coverage when they have proven to not be helpful, is a weak option. Ask yourself what would sway your vote in South Carolina. Seeing the blimp flying in your city or seeing it on TV in Boston.

Do you not think that multiple coverage is better than coverage of a single event? Would the MSM not cover the blimp flying over Columbia while millions pour in? Would we not be plastered all over the SC news if the blimp was there during the event? I think all these are true.

Ten days of flying around South Carolina assures that most voters there will know who Ron Paul is and will do a lot to lessen his "negatives". Flying around the northeast does not have that same effect.

The media can easily poo-poo the money, they cannot poo-poo a SC victory. Likewise, a victory over Giuliani in Florida would gaurantee the nomination.

In the end, it comes down to a decision of whether to opt for the mundain but conservative early primary path vs the more fun for us but risky path of heading to the NE. Asking WWRPD, I think he would opt for the SC/FL strategy.

Thanks for reading, Tarzan.

[tamor]

A very big thank you to the group of people who are going to make this actually happen. I know it is frustrating when differences of opinion are strongly expressed. But someone has to take the lead to get it done. Remember, the more people involved the more difficult it is to get an agreement. And we have many people on the forums. Thank you again - please do not get discouraged.

[francisco]

...I would like to hear a flight plan that includes Boston, NH, SC and FL. Personally, I can't see how it is posible. I have no problem whatsoever being shown that I am wrong, but so far nothing has shown that. I honestly don't see how being in Boston is neccessary to the promotional stunt, how much more in donations to the campaign for being in Boston is questionable, and the awareness of the RP message and more converts who will vote for RP so he will become the next President is needed most in SC/FL.


T, Thanks for your thoughts. You see strong coverage throughout SC and FL as crucial to the success of the campaign, and I agree. (I'm guessing that you live near enough to see the importance and the possibilities). Interestingly, I see a similar importance for NH. (I used to live in the Northeast although I've been a Westerner now for 30 years). One thing that you might not know about Boston is that it is very close to the most populated southern part of New Hamphire, (only about 30 miles away from the border), and people in NH look to it as the nearest large city, are fans of local teams, watch Boston TV, etc.

Here is a basic proposal I made last week in a different thread. I actually think it IS feasible to cover Boston, NH, and SC & FL.

"Starting point in North Carolina is a given, that is where the blimp will be when previous lease ends...

...Iowa and Nevada are unfortunately is too far away from the other points of concentrated population in other early primary states to be feasible...

Boston for December 15 and 16 to celebrate Bill of Rights Day and Tea Party is absolutely crucial...

New Years Eve over Times Square in New York would get a lot of media exposure.

New Hampshire is our strongest early state, and we should try to leverage publicity with the Blimp. I think the Blimp should spend several days making a circuit around the whole state of New Hamphire. Make loops around key cities between traverses that allow people in rural areas to see the Blimp and catch the enthusiasm. The state is about 200 miles long and 30-80 miles wide, so at average 25 mph @ 6 hrs daily flying, and allowing 2 hours daily for loops over population or event centers, about 100 miles per day could be covered.

Possible NH routing: Nashua, Derry, Manchester, Concord, Keene, Newport, Claremont, Lebanon, Hanover, White River Junction (VT), St. Johnsbury (VT), Littleton, Berlin, fly over White Mountains ski areas, Laconia, Rochester, Dover, Portsmith.

Bearing the above in mind:

Start NC

Start up east coast, hitting key cities Raleigh-Norfolk-Richmond-Washington, D.C.-Baltimore-Atlantic city (casinos)-Philadelphia- New York- up Hudson River valley to Albany, NY- across Berkhires and Revolutionary towns of MA-- arrive in Boston by 12/15. This is about 1100 miles.

Then-first circuit over NH, about 1 week' possibly would have some time for part of Maine coast.

Down along coast to New York City to arrive by 12/31 New Years Eve. I week allows ample time to get lots of exposure over this very populated corridor.

Back down south along more inland route to South Carolina, then Florida."

Now that we know that the lease inception is Dec. 10, getting to Boston Dec.16 is feasible as long as weather permits, and the new website indicates that is the plan. The tour around NH and then back to NYC for New Year's eve would also work.

Leaving NYC on Jan.1st, it would be about 700 miles to SC, I'm guessing about 3to 6 days. SC to Miami is about 600 miles, call it 4 days. Miami back to NC origination point (if required) is about 900 miles, maybe 6 days.

Depending on the actual flying times and length of lease, I think it could work. If necessary, the trip south from NH could be sped up if intentional delay to be in NYC for New Year's Eve was eliminated.

[1913_to_2008]

T, Thanks for your thoughts. You see strong coverage throughout SC and FL as crucial to the success of the campaign, and I agree. (I'm guessing that you live near enough to see the importance and the possibilities). Interestingly, I see a similar importance for NH. (I used to live in the Northeast although I've been a Westerner now for 30 years). One thing that you might not know about Boston is that it is very close to the most populated southern part of New Hamphire, (only about 30 miles away from the border), and people in NH look to it as the nearest large city, are fans of local teams, watch Boston TV, etc.

Here is a basic proposal I made last week in a different thread. I actually think it IS feasible to cover Boston, NH, and SC & FL.

"Starting point in North Carolina is a given, that is where the blimp will be when previous lease ends...

...Iowa and Nevada are unfortunately is too far away from the other points of concentrated population in other early primary states to be feasible...

Boston for December 15 and 16 to celebrate Bill of Rights Day and Tea Party is absolutely crucial...

New Years Eve over Times Square in New York would get a lot of media exposure.

New Hampshire is our strongest early state, and we should try to leverage publicity with the Blimp. I think the Blimp should spend several days making a circuit around the whole state of New Hamphire. Make loops around key cities between traverses that allow people in rural areas to see the Blimp and catch the enthusiasm. The state is about 200 miles long and 30-80 miles wide, so at average 25 mph @ 6 hrs daily flying, and allowing 2 hours daily for loops over population or event centers, about 100 miles per day could be covered.

Possible NH routing: Nashua, Derry, Manchester, Concord, Keene, Newport, Claremont, Lebanon, Hanover, White River Junction (VT), St. Johnsbury (VT), Littleton, Berlin, fly over White Mountains ski areas, Laconia, Rochester, Dover, Portsmith.

Bearing the above in mind:

Start NC

Start up east coast, hitting key cities Raleigh-Norfolk-Richmond-Washington, D.C.-Baltimore-Atlantic city (casinos)-Philadelphia- New York- up Hudson River valley to Albany, NY- across Berkhires and Revolutionary towns of MA-- arrive in Boston by 12/15. This is about 1100 miles.

Then-first circuit over NH, about 1 week' possibly would have some time for part of Maine coast.

Down along coast to New York City to arrive by 12/31 New Years Eve. I week allows ample time to get lots of exposure over this very populated corridor.

Back down south along more inland route to South Carolina, then Florida."

Now that we know that the lease inception is Dec. 10, getting to Boston Dec.16 is feasible as long as weather permits, and the new website indicates that is the plan. The tour around NH and then back to NYC for New Year's eve would also work.

Leaving NYC on Jan.1st, it would be about 700 miles to SC, I'm guessing about 3to 6 days. SC to Miami is about 600 miles, call it 4 days. Miami back to NC origination point (if required) is about 900 miles, maybe 6 days.

Depending on the actual flying times and length of lease, I think it could work. If necessary, the trip south from NH could be sped up if intentional delay to be in NYC for New Year's Eve was eliminated.




Now that is a beautifully laid out flight path! I've been looking at a map for the last hour or so and was kind of thinking the same thing.

[TCrage]

T, Thanks for your thoughts. You see strong coverage throughout SC and FL as crucial to the success of the campaign, and I agree. (I'm guessing that you live near enough to see the importance and the possibilities). Interestingly, I see a similar importance for NH. (I used to live in the Northeast although I've been a Westerner now for 30 years). One thing that you might not know about Boston is that it is very close to the most populated southern part of New Hamphire, (only about 30 miles away from the border), and people in NH look to it as the nearest large city, are fans of local teams, watch Boston TV, etc.

Here is a basic proposal I made last week in a different thread. I actually think it IS feasible to cover Boston, NH, and SC & FL.

"Starting point in North Carolina is a given, that is where the blimp will be when previous lease ends...

...Iowa and Nevada are unfortunately is too far away from the other points of concentrated population in other early primary states to be feasible...

Boston for December 15 and 16 to celebrate Bill of Rights Day and Tea Party is absolutely crucial...

New Years Eve over Times Square in New York would get a lot of media exposure.

New Hampshire is our strongest early state, and we should try to leverage publicity with the Blimp. I think the Blimp should spend several days making a circuit around the whole state of New Hamphire. Make loops around key cities between traverses that allow people in rural areas to see the Blimp and catch the enthusiasm. The state is about 200 miles long and 30-80 miles wide, so at average 25 mph @ 6 hrs daily flying, and allowing 2 hours daily for loops over population or event centers, about 100 miles per day could be covered.

Possible NH routing: Nashua, Derry, Manchester, Concord, Keene, Newport, Claremont, Lebanon, Hanover, White River Junction (VT), St. Johnsbury (VT), Littleton, Berlin, fly over White Mountains ski areas, Laconia, Rochester, Dover, Portsmith.

Bearing the above in mind:

Start NC

Start up east coast, hitting key cities Raleigh-Norfolk-Richmond-Washington, D.C.-Baltimore-Atlantic city (casinos)-Philadelphia- New York- up Hudson River valley to Albany, NY- across Berkhires and Revolutionary towns of MA-- arrive in Boston by 12/15. This is about 1100 miles.

Then-first circuit over NH, about 1 week' possibly would have some time for part of Maine coast.

Down along coast to New York City to arrive by 12/31 New Years Eve. I week allows ample time to get lots of exposure over this very populated corridor.

Back down south along more inland route to South Carolina, then Florida."

Now that we know that the lease inception is Dec. 10, getting to Boston Dec.16 is feasible as long as weather permits, and the new website indicates that is the plan. The tour around NH and then back to NYC for New Year's eve would also work.

Leaving NYC on Jan.1st, it would be about 700 miles to SC, I'm guessing about 3to 6 days. SC to Miami is about 600 miles, call it 4 days. Miami back to NC origination point (if required) is about 900 miles, maybe 6 days.

Depending on the actual flying times and length of lease, I think it could work. If necessary, the trip south from NH could be sped up if intentional delay to be in NYC for New Year's Eve was eliminated.

I reviewed the course you laid out and it is an ambitious one. At first I thought it would be great to go to Boston like is “the plan”, but when I started doing the route and factored in the time constraints, it poses many problems.

First of course is the weather. There is a reason why most of the blimps are in the southern states during the winter. By taking this path the operation is open to many unforeseen difficulties. The wind and mountains alone would make it difficult to execute an upstate NH fly-over. You have to remember that the max altitude is compared to see level not ground level. A coastal fly-over is certainly possible but is it worth it? Do we need to fly over our strongest state, or do we need the benefit in SC/FL more?

You said that you thought Boston is critical. Forgive me for saying this but why? Don’t get me wrong. I know from an event point of view, it would be “cool”. But is it critical? Is there truly a justified reason for the used flight hours to go there? How much extra money does the campaign need than what will be made if the blimp isn’t there? Will the blimp being there make that money? Will it really be that big of a difference in MSM reporting if the blimp is not in Boston? These are all unanswerable risks. Personally, I don’t see how any amount of money could replace a Florida or South Carolina victory.

You also said that New Years Eve over Times Square in New York would get a lot of media exposure. Would it? Why? Where? You trust national MSM to give a lot of media exposure? I don’t. No matter where the blimp is, the difference in MSM coverage is negligible. Concentrated local coverage in areas of most benefit is much more desirable in my opinion.

I am not sure about this but isn’t this a blimp that does NOT light up? I didn’t see it say anywhere that it did, and I looked for it. I do hope it does.

Also, that flight plan would mean an arrival in SC around the same time the month of flying is over. Was it worth the month’s cost? With only 20 days before the primary, will there be any time left to make an impact in SC and FL, even if everyone pays for another month? A proper fly over of SC would need a minimum of 8 days as can be seen on the plan I put out. Florida is much more populous and would require about twice that time. Remember that millions of people come to Florida during the holidays. Trust me, I know (and it sucks! lol).

Oh well. Like I said from my very first post, it was just a PROPOSAL. If the people putting it together want to go to Boston, fine. There is no reason for you and I to argue over it. I never planned for there to be a blimp in the first place, and I wont be donating because I still have $800 to go to the official campaign till I max out. I just wanted to offer a flight path that I thought was most effective for winning as previously requested on their web site.

I wish you all the best of luck.

Tom

[Paul4Prez]

It is possible to get to Iowa, after the trip to Boston and New Hampshire. There's a beautiful flight path, across major cities like Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit, Grand Rapids, Milwaukee, and Chicago.

The flight path would be right over Michigan, a key early primary state. New York and Illinois are on February 5th, and loaded with delegates.

[Indy Vidual]

Proposed Flight Path:
http://thumbnails2.imagebam.com/113/f1bde11129835.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/f1bde11129835)



Spending time in SC is great; I think they might have to go straight to Boston though?

[francisco]

...You said that you thought Boston is critical. Forgive me for saying this but why?

...There is no reason for you and I to argue over it. I never planned for there to be a blimp in the first place, and I wont be donating because I still have $800 to go to the official campaign till I max out.
Tom

--I clearly articulated the reasons why Boston is critical in several threads. If you had read the discussion threads from the last week you would know this.

--I find it interesting that you are willing to spend a lot of time and intellectual energy telling other people how they should spend their money, on a project you yourself are unwilling (and never intended )to make a financial committment to. I do give you credit for having the hubris to admit it in print.

[TCrage]

--I clearly articulated the reasons why Boston is critical in several threads. If you had read the discussion threads from the last week you would know this.

Oh gee, sorry I haven't been following your threads from last week whoever the hell you are. Is it really that hard to link to your arguments, or are you just trying to be a tool?

The idea that we'll put on such a grand event in Boston that the MSM will suddenly change their minds, fall in love with Ron Paul, and we will win SC and FL through media osmosis is just plain silly. You really don't think they would just come up with something else to talk about instead?


--I find it interesting that you are willing to spend a lot of time and intellectual energy telling other people how they should spend their money, on a project you yourself are unwilling (and never intended )to make a financial committment to. I do give you credit for having the hubris to admit it in print.

Please do explain why it is interesting that someone is willing to spend "time and intellectual energy" on something he believes in but cannot afford to give money to. Should those who can't give money to the campaign also stop giving their time and energy? What an incredibly stupid thing to say.

The hubris? Excuse me? I said in MY FIRST POST I wasn't maxed out yet. ARE YOU?!? Are you financing the project? If so, why even ask people to come here and make suggestions? You are the only opinion that matters. Talk about hubris.

Good job with the zingers. Sure put me in my place. How dare I disturb your personal forum with my whacky-fringe, and downright kooky, ideas. I should probably be "excluded" from any more discussions.

BTW, who are supporting again in this election? You sound like a perfect giuliani supporter.

[RlxdN10sity]

I concur with TCrage on most points. I do not think being in Boston for the Tea Party is as important as being on the campaign trail. A flight through the "corridor" mentioned by Francisco sounds like a flight more suited for the general election. The Tea Party itself is what is going on in Boston, not the blimp. Also, New Years eve is typically a big, drunk, party, not a political gathering or event. I don't see any reason to float around Times Sqare on New Years Eve. The coverage of the blimp at Times Square on New Years Eve would be negligent, especially when taking into account the precious time wasted waiting for New Years Eve to arrive. What coverage it did get, if any, would not be seen by many people as they are out partying and not watching TV. The blimp should be flying from one rally to the next in states that we need the earliest votes in.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I don't know how well that is going to work - school hopping, that is. If we do it, it should be in conjunction and with the cooperation of Students for Ron Paul chapters at the respective schools.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=4198119330

note that some states have 30-40 chapters and visiting every school in a state will eat our time like crazy.

fly-overs to some - maybe...

second, the only way to realistically land at most of these will be with a local group coordinating it and because they are a local group having some pull w/ uni officials. As an example, I contacted one university about getting a speaker on campus once and it took over a month for them to get back to me. another time, they wanted over $800 to rent a classroom for an hour!

now, where would the blimp land??? - parking is at a premium already at schools, so asking them to block off a parking lot for us isn't going to happen. Then you've got open courtyards (grass fields) and athletic fields and we'd be asking if we could drive a multi-ton truck onto their nice, unpaved lawn to moor the blimp to - ain't gonna happen!

we can ask - but don't expect more than a hand full of yes's.

referring to the most recent thread on Ron Paul forums - I don't know who decided that Iowa was out of the question. A couple of you I've talked to have said Iowa is in, if the weather cooperates, and it's likely it will - just a question of when.

Yes, Boston is a hard date - but it's still a maybe. A storm front could prevent it from happening, or we could push to get up there and be grounded for days! So Boston is planned, but nothing is 100% - we need lots of alternate plans for everything north. Weather is much less of a problem in the south.

As far as I'm concerned, pre-super Tuesday states are of the most importance. NH, ME, SC, FL, MI and IA. The last 2 are risky due to weather. - well, so is NH and ME, but less so, if we are already going to be in Boston.

Going into NH, we get diminishing returns the farther north we go (population). NH also only has 2 congressional districts.

http://www.hpntech.com/maps/us/nh.htm

I did see one route proposed through NH that hit many sparsely populated cities. Think we need to focus on the best population exposure we can get per hour flying.

People seem to forgotten about ME, it is a pre-super Tuesday state and following the highway a bit into the SW corner isn't far from NH, and reaches the largest population center. 2-3 hours, round trip - tops!

On NYC... I think new years is completely impractical. Here is the site for the group that does that:

http://www.timessquarenyc.org/

take a good look at the pic on that page. Note especially all the lights we'd be competing with and the angle someone on the street would have to look to see over the lowest building - that's in excess of 45 degrees! While the city has the largest population, I don't think anyone would see the blimp during the parade. Then there are flight restrictions to deal with. How about other cities with large populations - and remember, we want to get south and not spend all our time in the NE:
Washington (DC) 7,608,070
Philadelphia (PA) 6,188,463
Atlanta (GA) 4,112,198
Miami (FL) 3,876,380
Tampa (FL) 2,395,997

all seem like good possibilities. Boston has a great new years show that is televised and filmed over the harbor, so nationwide TV coverage would be a given but due to fireworks the harbor is going to be a TFR. Before hand, during the concert - great photo op! - but that throws a monkey wrench into covering a lot of the rest of the country.

I also think we should place a high priority on getting the Blimp crew home for Christmas. That would win us a lot of good will with them and the company, that would pay dividends come time to negotiate extending the tour. We could do that with new years in Atlanta, Miami or Tampa.

Remember, it's not only those states / cities that have the largest population, but also primary date, and delegates that are important. If you visit one city that is near and covered by the same TV/radio stations it's not necessary to go to both - in fact, it's counter productive.

direct spread - people see the blimp an talk about it
secondary spread - newspapers and TV do stories on it
preliminary spread - radio contest to win 20-30 min ride on the blimp - they hype it for a week or two before we get there. Is anyone working on this?

we still have a bunch of southern super-tuesday states and at least one visit per state would go a long way!

Nathan


any thoughts?

[TCrage]

I don't know how well that is going to work - school hopping, that is. If we do it, it should be in conjunction and with the cooperation of Students for Ron Paul chapters at the respective schools.

The Citadel is the ony school listed and only as a fly over. Would be super cool to land there, though! Clemson is a city and a school, but I also only listed it as a fly over. There are commercial airports in Columbia, Charleston, Greenville, Myrtle Beach, and Hilton Head Island. Spartanburg has a local airport, and Aiken and Sumter should also. If not, Augusta and Florence do.

No school hopping involved.


How about other cities with large populations - and remember, we want to get south and not spend all our time in the NE:
Washington (DC) 7,608,070
Philadelphia (PA) 6,188,463
Atlanta (GA) 4,112,198
Miami (FL) 3,876,380
Tampa (FL) 2,395,997


Don't forget about Jacksonville, FL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacksonville,_Florida).

From wiki:


In 2007, Jacksonville ranked as the United States' twelfth most populous city, with 794,555 residents. It is the principal city in the Greater Jacksonville Metropolitan Area area, a region with a population of 1,277,997, the fourth largest metropolitan area in the state, as of the 2006 Census Bureau estimates. Jacksonville is the third most populated city on the East Coast, after New York City and Philadelphia.

[rory096]

I think this plan underestimates the value of going up to Boston. It allows the blimp to cover highly populated areas of the east coast, including New Jersey and New York (including NYC) on its way up, and afterwards it can fly around New Hampshire, probably THE most crucial primary state, for a while before heading back down.

[TCrage]

I think this plan underestimates the value of going up to Boston. It allows the blimp to cover highly populated areas of the east coast, including New Jersey and New York (including NYC) on its way up, and afterwards it can fly around New Hampshire, probably THE most crucial primary state, for a while before heading back down.

Actually, the argument of this plan is that the value of going to Boston is overestimated. As I look at the new site, I am begining to see why.

I will not elaborate here. I will contact them directly.

[rory096]

Actually, the argument of this plan is that the value of going to Boston is overestimated. As I look at the new site, I am begining to see why.

I will not elaborate here. I will contact them directly.
Right, and I agree that if the blimp just went up to Boston then went back down it wouldn't be worth it, but NH is probably the most important primary state, and NJ and NY are important donor states, so they add value to a trip north.

[TCrage]

Right, and I agree that if the blimp just went up to Boston then went back down it wouldn't be worth it, but NH is probably the most important primary state, and NJ and NY are important donor states, so they add value to a trip north.

Yes, that is the arguement for it. The problem is the effectiveness of a blimp in NH during winter vs the opportunity lost in SC and FL. A surge in popularity in SC then FL would likely have more impact in NH than actually sending the blimp there. NH would be more inclined to vote for Paul if they thought the other states found him "electable" as well.

[OferNave]

I know. We're getting a lot of first post posters who are coming on specifically to stop the blimp. This post was a first time post too.

Idiot! IDIOT!

In all the months of watching rampant stupidity on the boards, I have not sunk to the level of outright berating someone, but this just threw me into a rage.

TCrage's post was one of the most brilliant and well-thought out I've ever seen. The man has clearly spent *hours* working on logistics, doing research and using reason, with the singular goal of helping Ron Paul win.

And you accuse him of being a troll?

IDIOT!!!

I've never even used a larger font size before, until now.

Idiot.

[Benaiah]

After reading through this entire thread, I'd say that I agree with Tcrage.

Having the blimp at the Tea Party gets us excited. By us, I mean the 3,000 addicts who sit on this site all day. Think outside of us, though, and having the blimp in SC and FL makes a lot of sense. The weather is a good point, too. It would probably be a good idea to just redouble our effort with boots on the ground and phone calls for NH, and keep the blimp in SC and FL.

[edit] up until reading this thread, I was in favor of having the blimp in Boston. But now, I think that we should start a massive operation to call every house in NH, and keep the blimp in SC as much as possible.

[rory096]

Yes, that is the arguement for it. The problem is the effectiveness of a blimp in NH during winter vs the opportunity lost in SC and FL. A surge in popularity in SC then FL would likely have more impact in NH than actually sending the blimp there. NH would be more inclined to vote for Paul if they thought the other states found him "electable" as well.
The weather certainly could be a problem for the blimp going to the northeast. Would it be possible for the blimp to reduce pure travel time to just a day or two if it were visiting New York and New Jersey on the way? If not, I think I'd agree it's not really worth it. I'm not quite sure about other states finding Paul electable really affecting New Hampshire, though; I don't live there, but by all accounts it's a very independent-minded state that cares more about liberty than the opinions of other states. I think SC and FL would certainly be effective in those states, and it might help NH a bit, but not very much, I think.

[OferNave]

Regardless of the outcome, thank you to everyone making constructive arguments, and of course, mad props to the people actually making this happen. What you've accomplished in less than ten days I would have previously thought impossible.

I love you all!

[TCrage]

Thank you OferNave. That really hit home.

Benaiah, thanks for taking the time to read the whole discusion and I appreciate your support. I do hope others are willing to take the time to understand the opportunity we have here.

[Tarzan]

The initial flight is planned from the launch point near Elizabeth City, NC to Boston, MA. What we are trying to accomplish is as much exposure as possible on the maiden run. The Washington/Boston corridor is estimated to have 44 million people living there... about 16 percent of the total US population.

In addition the major media is located along the route... in particular New York. A rought itinerary is being planned. We are trying to take into account weather, layovers and flight time to make sure the blimp arrives in time for the TeaParty07 event.

The current route included 81 Universities and Colleges. Most are major universities! At the same time several military bases will be overflown as FAA restrictions allow. And, the 44+ million Americans along the route will have an opportunity to see the blimp. Other Americans (and the world) will see it as it and the rallys are covered by the MSM. We have begun work to coordinate with the RP supporter groups along the route. Plans are still in discussion but will move forward quickly as time is short. The idea is to have Ron Paul supporters know the schedule of the blimp to be on hand to answer any questions about RP. This will be a great opportunity to start a discussion with potential converts. The flight path will make it very difficult for the MSM to avoid coverage.

The flight plan and coordination with the Ron Paul "ground forces" is not a simple matter. There are a number of considerations... weather, allowable flight time, FAA restrictions and more. We are trying to make the best decision possible with all factors being considered.

We need to focus our efforts on making the largest impact possible. Traveling the Washington/Boston corridor should ensure this... and, it will have an effect in SC as well. We need to do well in as many of the early primaries as possible. Reaching Iowa is not feasible and has been ruled out. A flight to New Hampshire is definitely being planned. Since the NH primary is on Jan 8th and SC is on Jan 19th a trip to SC is being planned at the end of the NH primary. Keep in mind that nothing is finalized as yet.

We need to get the money in hand to make all of this a reality. Things ARE progressing but there are a LOT of details and work. We will also have a short turn around in working with the RP supporter groups along the initial flight route. Please give us your support to make the initial flight and TeaParty07 and huge success.

And, just thing... Dec 16th is on a weekend... anyone who can drive to Boston for the event should come. Make a day or weekend of the event. Create a Ron Paul caravan to the Tea Party in Boston! Wear your RP shirts... bring your RP signs... bring your friends and family... be polite and considerate so we can win converts, votes and the election!

OK... I give up! I try to word this stuff as politely as possible so as not to offend... I may not do as well in this post.

It might help if you would read my original post. Then conveive and visualize what it means to have the maiden voyage expose us the massive population in the Washington/Boston corridor. Then consider what it means and the effect of overflying around 80 college and university campuses. Then consider the blimp visiting the home of the MSM during the transit to Boston. Then consider that the TeaParty07 is a fund raising event for the official campaign. Then consider how much more exposure and interest would be generated for the TeaParty07 fundraiser. Then consider how the blimp would have immediate recognition during future flights thanks to MSM exposure. Then consider how much more money might be donated. Then consider what could be done with that money. Then consider that we would head for NH and ME after Boston to help win support in their primaries. Then consider that SC and FL are not being left out... we would transit the corridor again in route to SC... then Florida.

Its about making the greatest impact... its about raising the most donations for the campaign... its about building up some momentum from success in the early primaries... its about building up a head of steam as we move into the other primaries... its about getting Ron Paul elected.

SC and FL are not being abandoned. They are important and we need to do well there as well. Several days are already planned for both states. Part of our planning is to have them overhead in the largest population center on election day. We are still working on the logistics to make that happen.

If you can't conceive the impact of the flight and appearance in Boston... well, I give up!

fyi... Paul4Prez
going to Iowa would be terrific... but the northern corridor is too difficult for the helium filled blimp so the plan is to head south after the northern visit

[ionlyknowy]

It is imperative that we be in Boston on the day of the Tea Party. They are having a rally that will beat all rallies this year, and the media coverage with a blimp in the background would be priceless. If we had teaparty07.com written on the blimp then this would also be very smart.

I also think that it is IMPERATIVE that the blimp be in or around Times Square on New Years. Do you even know how many people watch the ball drop? Millions! Plus the eastern sea board of the US is one of the most populous and is also one of the areas where RP support is lacking.

I think if we have the Blimp in New Hampshire, then we win this primary hands down.

If all of the above happen, then I cant even fathom what might be better.... The media will freak out crazy town if this happens.

If we put teaparty07.com on the blimp I guarantee at least 8Million raised that day.

[TCrage]

OK... I give up! I try to word this stuff as politely as possible so as not to offend... I may not do as well in this post.

It might help if you would read my original post. Then conveive and visualize what it means to have the maiden voyage expose us the massive population in the Washington/Boston corridor. Then consider what it means and the effect of overflying around 80 college and university campuses. Then consider the blimp visiting the home of the MSM during the transit to Boston. Then consider that the TeaParty07 is a fund raising event for the official campaign. Then consider how much more exposure and interest would be generated for the TeaParty07 fundraiser. Then consider how the blimp would have immediate recognition during future flights thanks to MSM exposure. Then consider how much more money might be donated. Then consider what could be done with that money. Then consider that we would head for NH and ME after Boston to help win support in their primaries. Then consider that SC and FL are not being left out... we would transit the corridor again in route to SC... then Florida.

Its about making the greatest impact... its about raising the most donations for the campaign... its about building up some momentum from success in the early primaries... its about building up a head of steam as we move into the other primaries... its about getting Ron Paul elected.

SC and FL are not being abandoned. They are important and we need to do well there as well.

If you can't conceive the impact of the flight and appearance in Boston... well, I give up!

fyi... Paul4Prez
going to Iowa would be terrific... but the northern corridor is too difficult for the helium filled blimp so the plan is to head south after the northern visit

Tarzan, I assure you I have read your entire post. You want me to "conveive and visualize what it means to have the maiden voyage expose us the massive population in the Washington/Boston corridor".

Ok. I have. And I dont quite get it. What do these people have to do with winning an early primary election?

Next, I am supposed to "consider what it means and the effect of overflying around 80 college and university campuses".

Ok. I did. How exactly did that help win an early primary? We already own the campuses.

Now I am "consider(ing) the blimp visiting the home of the MSM during the transit to Boston."

Hmmm, while we're at it, can I consider how nice it would be if they weren't already screwing us over right now? Do I not also have to twist reality into thinking they will all of a sudden change because of a blimp? Sorry. I didn't fall for the flowers at our soliers feet in Iraq either.

"Then consider that the TeaParty07 is a fund raising event for the official campaign." Ok, something I think we all knew. Not an actual "event" where it needs a blimp, but a a day of donations that could be considered an event. Like Nov 5th.

Again you lost me when I had to "consider how the blimp would have immediate recognition during future flights thanks to MSM exposure." There is no solid logic behind this statement. You are relying on a known enemy of ours. The MSM.

I would like you to "consider how much more money might be donated". By all measures the likely effect would be very little difference, and certainly not worth contimplating "what could be done with that money". Please give some justifiable reasoning as to how a blimp in Boston would change anything without mentioning the unreliable MSM. I think you will find that difficult.

I will now "consider that we would head for NH and ME after Boston to help win support in their primaries." The conlusion I came to is that I dont think there is much viability of a blimp in NH and going to Michigan would make it an even bigger detour.

After all that and no mapped out flight plan, I am to "consider that SC and FL are not being left out... we would transit the corridor again in route to SC... then Florida." Unfortunatly I remembered it was a blimp, and I understand the travel time restraints. If I thought about it as a plane, yeah I could see you making it in time.

"Its about making the greatest impact..." - On early primary voters, your plan does not. A SC/FL concentrated plan does.

"its about raising the most donations for the campaign..." - And a blimp is going to increse that how? Why is the blimp being tied to that event anyways? It seems more of a way for the organizers to market themselves than RP.

"its about building up some momentum from success in the early primaries..." - Again, this is precisely why I say concentrate on SC and FL.

"its about building up a head of steam as we move into the other primaries..." - Yes, and if we we do not do well in SC and FL all that steam is lost. Ignorance of RP in those states would not be overcome solely by a victory in NH as well as what the impact of a blimp there would do.

"its about getting Ron Paul elected." - Dont I know it. That is the only reason I am here. It is starting to look like that is not the only motive of others. No, I'm not talking about you.

Simply stating, "If you can't conceive the impact of the flight and appearance in Boston... well, I give up!" is not a very valid argument. It is similar to saying "If you can't conceive the impact of leaving Iraq... well, I give up!". I never bought that either.

I ask that you go back and do the same as you asked me to do. Consider all those things. Then consider if you not just being stuborn to justify going to Boston. All political logic says stay on the campaign trail and maximize efforts in SC and FL. I cannot subscribe to trusting in the MSM for any help whatsoever.

[Benaiah]

Tarzan, most schools only have 1 week of classes left then they are out. Don't know if that will affect your guys' flight plans or not.

[Tarzan]

Tarzan, most schools only have 1 week of classes left then they are out. Don't know if that will affect your guys' flight plans or not.

Thanks... of the schools I checked many do end classes around the 7-12th. This varies by school. Of all the schools I checked many have examinations through the 20th... that varies too.

I know many will leave for home as soon as the opportunity allows. So we will not be reaching the numbers we would with classes in regular session. The flight to Boston is scheduled from the 10th to the 15th. Hopefully we will still have a good impact on the campuses as we will be overhead during examination week.

very helpful input... thanks

[Tarzan]

One more thing for consideration... we are also planning the route to include some important US landmarks... Statue of Liberty, Washington Monument (outside the restricted zone), Arlington Cemetary, Fort McHenry, Annapolis (Naval Academy), Central Park (NY), Various campuses, City Centers and coastal areas.

This will be fertile ground for taking pictures and videos. Great source stuff for the media and RP supporters. Do I hear a flood of new YouTube videos on their way? :D

[Tarzan]

Ok. I have. And I dont quite get it.

Well... I have to agree with you on THAT point!

That's it for me on this thread... I have more important things to do than teach a marketing course or address conspiracy plots by the MSM.

[TCrage]

One more thing for consideration... we are also planning the route to include some important US landmarks... Statue of Liberty, Washington Monument (outside the restricted zone), Arlington Cemetary, Fort McHenry, Annapolis (Naval Academy), Central Park (NY), Various campuses, City Centers and coastal areas.

This will be fertile ground for taking pictures and videos. Great source stuff for the media and RP supporters. Do I hear a flood of new YouTube videos on their way? :D

Should we really consider the impact of marketing to ourselves, and are there plans in place to force the media into compliance?

Oh Tarzan, I do get it now. This stunt is for the organizer's egos and not for the purpose of getting RP elected.

All one has to do is look at the front page of the new website.


Imagine.. the mainstream media is mesmerized as the image of the Ron Paul blimp is shown to tens of millions of Americans throughout the day (and throughout the month).

As GPS coordinates stream to the website a map shows the Ron Paul blimp's location in real time. The local television stations broadcast its every move. The curious flock together and make a trip to see history in the making. Emails with pictures are sent, then forwarded, then forwarded again. Youtube videos go viral and reach tens of millions of views. Ron Paul becomes the first presidential candidate in history to have his very own blimp. The PR stunt generates millions upon millions of dollars worth in free publicity, and captures the imagination of America.

That certainly requires a vivid imagination. I guess if you could imagine that, you could come up with all those other fantasies of yours.

[Edit] Wow, I didn't see this part at the end there, Tarz. Nice way to throw in the "conspiracy" label. Taking your queues from the opposition, huh. Not only am I a conspiracy theorist, I betcha I'm a racist white-supremist, too! Oh, did I mention, I am also an isolationist and a kook. That should do the trick to discredit what I have to say.

[Delain]

Oh Tarzan, I do get it now. This stunt is for the organizer's egos and not for the purpose of getting RP elected.



And you were offended when someone called you a spammer. Right.

---

For me it is a no brainer where the blimp should be half december

Perfect > http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/images/RP3_header.jpg

[TCrage]

For me it is a no brain

Fun when people take words out of context like Tarzan did to mine, huh.

[Delain]

Fun when people take words out of context like Tarzan did to mine, huh.

Ah so you don't subscribe the principle to be responsible for one's own actions. Like when you smear the organizers, it is actually tarzans fault.

Anyhow, the decision to be in Boston at the TeaParty had pretty much been made already. And for very good reasons. Nothing but praise for your plan, it has some good points, but there's only one blimp and Boston is the better choice imo.

[ionlyknowy]

Fun when people take words out of context like Tarzan did to mine, huh.

Did you register here just to cause trouble? You might have offered a flight plan for the blimp, but after that, your posts have been very negative.

Very suspect.

Some will try to come here and cause a rift in our plans. They will try to upset the oneness of this movement.

But I am here to tell you, and the others that are out there.. We see right through your tactics, and you are wasting your time.

[TCrage]

Did you register here just to cause trouble? You might have offered a flight plan for the blimp, but after that, your posts have been very negative.

Very suspect.

Some will try to come here and cause a rift in our plans. They will try to upset the oneness of this movement.

But I am here to tell you, and the others that are out there.. We see right through your tactics, and you are wasting your time.

OMG... This is the most whackiest forum I have ever been in. You see right through what tactic? The tactic of trying to point out a feasible flight plan to help Ron Paul WIN in the early primaries as opposed to a grandious "event" flight plan heavilly reliant on MSM exposure? Boy, you caught me. How suspicious.

I have pleaded my case, I can do no more. I'm tired of the insulting behaviour on this forum and will not answer any more of these types of posts. Ridicule me all you like.

I welcome anyone to read this thread and see how I have been treated (even with the most dispicable posts insulting me deleted by the admins). Is this really what goes on in this forum?

It is ashame.

[OferNave]

I already called out BeFranklin as an idiot for bringing paranoia into this thread, and still others are doing so again.

Tarzan, from your posts, you are way too intelligent to be excused from such stupidity as "giving up on this thread" and accusing TCage of conspiracy.

Look, both TCage and Tarzan are making great points. This is not only a legit debate, it is being well executed on both sides!

After reading the points carefully, I believe the fundamental disagreement comes from one premise that Tarzan holds but TCage questions - whether or not depending on MSM coverage of the Washington/Boston Corridor + TeaParty will help in the early primary states of SC and FL. Tarzan's plan relies on MSM to do something, TCage is not relying on it.

Can you two continue the debate with this understanding, like gentlemen? Please? For me?

[akovacs]

I apologize if this is another thread: How long are we renting the blimp? As long as the funds keep coming in?

[Arek]

I will say flying around South Carolina and Florida probably would influence the primaries in those two states. Especially if you get the local news out to report. I feel the local news will be fairer than the MSM. However I do like the plan of flying over big cities like New York, and the such. So overall it looks good either way. It seems it would however have mor einfluence on the early primaries int he south.

[TCrage]

Thank you, OferNave. I have been and remain amiable to discussing this with anyone.

My appologies if I have overreacted at any point. I was suprised by some of the insults that had nothing to do with the debate. I will not to respond to those anymore.

[OferNave]

I was suprised by some of the insults that had nothing to do with the debate. I will not to respond to those anymore.

That's the trick. :)

[Mastiff]

Any chance of reconsidering Iowa? I'm biased since I live here, but I can tell you that unlike the Northeast, the local news here consists of cats stuck in trees and the like. Every local news station would cover the blimp big time if it came to Cedar Rapids and other medium sized towns. Be here on a weekend and people will come out to see, assuming it's not 10 below. :rolleyes:

[BeFranklin]

...


...

I reported these posts for forum violations.


+ Insulting or personally attacking other users is not allowed by any member. There is very little tolerance for violations, particular for new members. Reason: Insults lead to relational which often result in disruption, which dilute the resources of members and the intent of the forum.

+ Off-topic posts - Posts that do not relate to the threads intent are subject to being deleted.

+ Topics posted in the wrong sub-forum are subject to being moved or deleted. Please understand the sub-forum division before starting a new topic. Suggestions for new sub-forums are always welcome. Reason: Leads to most effective use of users resources.

+ Any form of antagonizing other members is not allowed by non-established members.

+ If you are to be critical of another users ideas or message please do so in a respectful manner. It is possible to discuss your points as to why you feel the way you do, ideally you should include alternate suggestions or acknowledge you have none.

+ No excessive / pointless negativity on the campaign, its future or elements of it. All messages with a negative tone about the campaign from new users must provide supportive facts as to why there is a perceived negative and provide some suggested solutions to the issue.

[Texan4RP]

I have read both sides of the story and I think both are great ideas. The Boston run would be excellent because of it's exposure possibilities with the MSM. It really hits me strong because of the passion of being at the site of the most important event in our history as a country. That is really awesome! Lot's of population exposure. I first thought about the New Years Eve in NYC but I'm really thinking that we may need to pass on it. I really think the MSM could care less and the Local media would skip it as well. As far as flying near the Statue of Liberty well I think it would make for great photos but not much impact. Emotionally I would go North, but Realistically I see the South as the stronger of the two plans. The Blimp being able to completely canvas these two states would have real impact. I believe the weather would not be a factor near like it could be going North. There aren't as many large universities but there are some. I think you could cover so much more of both the two states than flying to NH and back. I also do not trust the MSM any further than I could throw Hitlery. There is alot required of them to make the North sweep successful.

I vote to go South.
My heart says North, but reason says South would bring a better chance of victory for RP.

Please don't call me a troll. I have pictures that prove I Was in the Ft. Worth Texas Straw Poll Victory Parade in Downtown Cowtown. Plus I'd have to hog tie you and feed you to the pigs.

[Texan4RP]

Quick thought guy's let's have some fun! Just imagine a real Ron Paul Blimp! It's going to happen. My wife and daughter think it's crazy and great. I have to LOL if I was to look out the bathroom window while i was peeing and see this great big Blimp that said Ron Paul for President 2007. I would probably have to mop the floor. I'd be laughing so hard!!!

GO RON PAUL !

[RickNHouston]

Has anybody looked at the weather map lately? Chicago area expecting blizzard conditions next 3 - 5 days and it is moving east. The long range forecast for upper eastern seabord ain't lookin real good! Getting the blimp to Boston by the 16 th will be one thing .... my question is .... if there's a blizzard goin on outside will it be up and if it does get up ... who's gonna be outdoors to see it? Hard to see anything in a blizzard ...! All I'm saying is that maybe, just maybe we would all be better off makin plans for a more .... ahem, southern exposure. If you get my drift...
:D

[RickNHouston]

[QUOTE=tangent4ronpaul;510212]I don't know how well that is going to work - school hopping, that is. If we do it, it should be in conjunction and with the cooperation of Students for Ron Paul chapters at the respective schools.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=4198119330

note that some states have 30-40 chapters and visiting every school in a state will eat our time like crazy.

fly-overs to some - maybe...

second, the only way to realistically land at most of these will be with a local group coordinating it and because they are a local group having some pull w/ uni officials. As an example, I contacted one university about getting a speaker on campus once and it took over a month for them to get back to me. another time, they wanted over $800 to rent a classroom for an hour!

now, where would the blimp land??? - parking is at a premium already at schools, so asking them to block off a parking lot for us isn't going to happen. Then you've got open courtyards (grass fields) and athletic fields and we'd be asking if we could drive a multi-ton truck onto their nice, unpaved lawn to moor the blimp to - ain't gonna happen!

[/QUOTE

OK, I guess at the risk of me getting yelled at to ,,,, isn't the time period we're discussing right around the time that "most" college campuses all but close down for winter break ???

C'mon ... Don't taze me, dude!

[KevinF]

I think that all ideas should be assessed by facts. Within the "mathematical model" discussion, the following facts came to the surface regarding the blimp movements.

Cruising speed: 30-50 MPH
Typical Miles Per Day: 200-300 miles per day
Flight Time Per Month Contract: 160 Hours

Here are my rough calculations.
Total flight time per day: about 6-7 hours
Total days of flight: between 23 to 27 days
Maximum total flight distance in 160 hours: around 6000-7000 miles (if non-stop)

Okay, so from now on I think anyone who posts a route needs to get the emotion out of it and give us your performance indicators and metrics. Everyone posting a route should include the following rough numbers.

(1) Total flight distance
(2) Total flight days (assume 250 miles per day)
(3) Added time for fly-overs / circling around a city for exposure

If you're route is not less than 7000 total miles, and less than 27 days of total time of the blimp in the air (#2+#3), then you're route idea is probably infeasible.

[TCrage]

I think that all ideas should be assessed by facts. Within the "mathematical model" discussion, the following facts came to the surface regarding the blimp movements.

Cruising speed: 30-50 MPH
Typical Miles Per Day: 200-300 miles per day
Flight Time Per Month Contract: 160 Hours

Here are my rough calculations.
Total flight time per day: about 6-7 hours
Total days of flight: between 23 to 27 days
Maximum total flight distance in 160 hours: around 6000-7000 miles (if non-stop)

Okay, so from now on I think anyone who posts a route needs to get the emotion out of it and give us your performance indicators and metrics. Everyone posting a route should include the following rough numbers.

(1) Total flight distance
(2) Total flight days (assume 250 miles per day)
(3) Added time for fly-overs / circling around a city for exposure

If you're route is not less than 7000 total miles, and less than 27 days of total time of the blimp in the air (#2+#3), then you're route idea is probably infeasible.

Why? No one cares. This isn't a grassroots effort anymore.

All you need to do is have a good imagination (http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/)and everything will be just fine.

Isn't Boston beautiful in the middle of Dec?

http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/images/bostonAir2.jpg

Without imagination you may incorrectly see it like this.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6333/bostonfi6.png

Now that would be just silly.

[TCrage]

Does anyone actually care about electing Ron Paul?

[TCrage]

Oh look! someone actually thought out a flight path that doesnt leave us stranded in the northeast, doesn't require an overbloated budget, utlilizes the grassroots, doesn't rely on the MSM, and does the most good where we really need it, the early primary states of SC and FL.

I think I will read this thread now that I realize how unfeasible the current flight plan is.

[rory096]

Oh look! someone actually thought out a flight path that doesnt leave us stranded in the northeast, doesn't require an overbloated budget, utlilizes the grassroots, doesn't rely on the MSM, and does the most good where we really need it, the early primary states of SC and FL.

I think I will read this thread now that I realize how unfeasible the current flight plan is.
The blimp leaves NH right after its primaries, and heads south. SC's primaries aren't for 11 days after NH and FL's are 10 days after that, so there'll be plenty of time to go around both states.

[adpierce]

What about Iowa? The blimp isn't going to Iowa. It's the first place in the nation to vote for the party nominations.

[rory096]

What about Iowa? The blimp isn't going to Iowa. It's the first place in the nation to vote for the party nominations.
Iowa is too far away from the other early primary states and the weather isn't really good for a blimp. Also, it's not a particularly strong state for Paul.

[KevinF]

The blimp leaves NH right after its primaries, and heads south. SC's primaries aren't for 11 days after NH and FL's are 10 days after that, so there'll be plenty of time to go around both states.

Yes, but this plan assumes the following:
(1) Good weather throughout most of December in New York and New Hampshire.
(2) That the blimp is going to be funded for more than one month.

Even I have to agree that the plan on the web page is wasteful, impractical and fairly non-optimal. I am however assuming that it will be flying over NH for the many days it is there. If it is just sitting there on the ground during December waiting around, that's even worse.
http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/FlightPlan.php

First off, it takes 4 or more hours to drive from Washington D.C. to New York city. There is no way a blimp cruising at 30-50 MPH is going to realistically make it to NY in 6 hours. Then 6 hours to get to Boston from NY is absolutely ridiculous. I don't even think you could drive it that fast on the highways.

Secondly, why spend over 20 days in New Hampshire? That's one of the few places Ron Paul can win without the added exposure of the blimp.

Lastly, why skip over all the cities on the East coast. Philadelphia is on the way from DC to NY. Also areas like Delaware and Connecticut fall right on that path. This is the weirdest part of the whole schedule. In order to make some of the distances, you'll probably need to stop over in some mid-point areas overnight anyway, so it simply makes sense to stop in places like this.

I am personally starting to agree that South Carolina and Florida should be the primary targets for the blimp. Throw in a few other southern states for good measure. RP needs to make more headway in SC and FL than in New Hampshire.

[rory096]

Yes, but this plan assumes the following:
(1) Good weather throughout most of December in New York and New Hampshire.
(2) That the blimp is going to be funded for more than one month.

Even I have to agree that the plan on the web page is wasteful, impractical and fairly non-optimal. I am however assuming that it will be flying over NH for the many days it is there. If it is just sitting there on the ground during December waiting around, that's even worse.
http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/FlightPlan.php

First off, it takes 4 or more hours to drive from Washington D.C. to New York city. There is no way a blimp cruising at 30-50 MPH is going to realistically make it to NY in 6 hours. Then 6 hours to get to Boston from NY is absolutely ridiculous. I don't even think you could drive it that fast on the highways.

Secondly, why spend over 20 days in New Hampshire? That's one of the few places Ron Paul can win without the added exposure of the blimp.

Lastly, why skip over all the cities on the East coast. Philadelphia is on the way from DC to NY. Also areas like Delaware and Connecticut fall right on that path. This is the weirdest part of the whole schedule. In order to make some of the distances, you'll probably need to stop over in some mid-point areas overnight anyway, so it simply makes sense to stop in places like this.

I am personally starting to agree that South Carolina and Florida should be the primary targets for the blimp. Throw in a few other southern states for good measure. RP needs to make more headway in SC and FL than in New Hampshire.
The blimp cruises at 60 miles per hour, I believe. In addition it can go as the crow flies if necessary, so it can go much faster. Also the trip from NY to Boston is ~5 hours without traffic (which isn't a problem for a blimp); I made that trip two weeks ago. New Hampshire is one of the few places Ron Paul can win at all, so we need to expend every effort to make sure it actually happens.

[KevinF]

Iowa is too far away from the other early primary states and the weather isn't really good for a blimp. Also, it's not a particularly strong state for Paul.

I agree that Iowa might be too far out of the way, but the Iowa weather is probably better than that of NH, Boston and New York. Further, isn't the whole point of the blimp to improve the RP standing in important states?

My prediction is that this race is going to turn into Huckabee vs. Paul. I think the rest will fall by the wayside eventually, although Giuliani will probably hold out the longest.

[KevinF]

The blimp cruises at 60 miles per hour, I believe. In addition it can go as the crow flies if necessary, so it can go much faster. Also the trip from NY to Boston is ~5 hours without traffic (which isn't a problem for a blimp); I made that trip two weeks ago. New Hampshire is one of the few places Ron Paul can win at all, so we need to expend every effort to make sure it actually happens.

According to the numbers I've seen the MAXIMUM speed is 60-70 MPH. Cruising speed is 30-50 MPH, and typical miles per day is 200-300. The schedule just is not feasible given those numbers which were presented by one of the people tasked with the logistics.

[rory096]

I agree that Iowa might be too far out of the way, but the Iowa weather is probably better than that of NH, Boston and New York. Further, isn't the whole point of the blimp to improve the RP standing in important states?

My prediction is that this race is going to turn into Huckabee vs. Paul. I think the rest will fall by the wayside eventually, although Giuliani will probably hold out the longest.
Yes, but we want to improve his standings in as many places as possible, and going all the way to Iowa would force us not to go to New Hampshire, Boston on the 16th (not an important primary, but a good morale-booster for supporters), NY (most important fundraising city), and SC and FL (important primaries)

[NewEnd]

Oh look! someone actually thought out a flight path that doesnt leave us stranded in the northeast, doesn't require an overbloated budget, utlilizes the grassroots, doesn't rely on the MSM, and does the most good where we really need it, the early primary states of SC and FL.

I think I will read this thread now that I realize how unfeasible the current flight plan is.

You might be right, I'll admit.

Unfortunately, getting it to Boston for the Tea Party is part of the whole schtick, I think.

I do hope they rethink their flight schedule a bit... Honestly, I was a tad disappointed, especially considering new england weather.. teh blimp may just do better in the south anyways.... NASCAR country and all.

[Ethek]

You might be right, I'll admit.

Unfortunately, getting it to Boston for the Tea Party is part of the whole schtick, I think.

I do hope they rethink their flight schedule a bit... Honestly, I was a tad disappointed, especially considering new england weather.. teh blimp may just do better in the south anyways.... NASCAR country and all.

I think NH is important. However, I don't think it needs to spend 24 days in NH. Maybe cut that short by a week and use it to get down to a bowl game in FL. It may have some down time for the crew over Christmas so that could be why it's slated there for 3 1/2 weeks.

After the initial sprint around NH the media coverage will be a bit stale there. After the bowls in FL it could start hammering on SC to get Dr. Paul's unfavorable rating down there by getting his name out. I also think it would go a long way to deliver WV if we could get it to Charleston WV Feb4th and the morning of the 5th. It would be a big thing for all of the delegates to see coming in on the interstate and seeing that baby hanging over the convention center.

[leonster]

I think NH is important. However, I don't think it needs to spend 24 days in NH. Maybe cut that short by a week and use it to get down to a bowl game in FL. It may have some down time for the crew over Christmas so that could be why it's slated there for 3 1/2 weeks.

After the initial sprint around NH the media coverage will be a bit stale there. After the bowls in FL it could start hammering on SC to get Dr. Paul's unfavorable rating down there by getting his name out. I also think it would go a long way to deliver WV if we could get it to Charleston WV Feb4th and the morning of the 5th. It would be a big thing for all of the delegates to see coming in on the interstate and seeing that baby hanging over the convention center.

I agree about NH. We want this thing to draw media and attention... especially local media. But local media won't report about it day after day... they'll do one big piece the first day, then the next day mention something about where it went, and then nothing after that. Two or three days is enough... hit the populated areas in the south of the state, fly it up the state a bit if weather allows, maybe hit Maine for a few hours... then start flying it back south.

I think bringing it to NH is a fantastic idea... but I think after 2-3 days in a small state like that, you hit seriously diminishing returns (it won't be interesting when you've already seen it three times), and it would be better to have it somewhere new, picking up the great initial returns in another state.

Basically, the INITIAL reactions are what will get attention for the blimp/Ron Paul... but it becomes old news quickly, so move on somewhere new.

[michael.byrne]

I think bringing it to NH is a fantastic idea... but I think after 2-3 days in a small state like that, you hit seriously diminishing returns (it won't be interesting when you've already seen it three times), and it would be better to have it somewhere new, picking up the great initial returns in another state.

Basically, the INITIAL reactions are what will get attention for the blimp/Ron Paul... but it becomes old news quickly, so move on somewhere new.

That's what I thought. The weather in NH is pretty bad now and it's getting worse. I make a poll about this, please vote.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=46677

[smartbandwidth]

Tom makes some great points. But Boston is where it all began. We need to use the Teaparty to leverage the exposure-benefit the blimp creates.

The site of the Ron Paul blimp floating above the general area where the tea party took place would be incredibly powerful and inspiring!

[TCrage]

Tom makes some great points. But Boston is where it all began. We need to use the Teaparty to leverage the exposure-benefit the blimp creates.

The site of the Ron Paul blimp floating above the general area where the tea party took place would be incredibly powerful and inspiring!

Thank you.

I addressed the exposure-benifit in a few of my posts. The TeaParty has a life of it's own. The money will come. Blimp or no blimp. I think the exposure and first strike aspect of going straight to SC would actually be more benificial. The exposure-benifit we are looking for is with the people in SC/FL that we need to vote for Ron Paul.

Another thing to consider is that SC and FL are closed primaries. Must be registered Republican by Dec 16th in SC and Dec 31st in FL. Going straight to SC on the 10th, and using a concentrated effort in SC/FL while putting out the message to register, would be a great way to benifit from the exposure a blimp would give. A Boston trip does not have that effect.

It all comes down to not being convinced the MSM is our friend. They could easily downplay the blimp in Boston. It's basically just a joy ride for our pleasure. They would cover the blimp flying over Columbia, SC, just as much if the money was flowing in. I trust the local SC media a lot more. We are bringing national excitement to their state. How often do they get that? ;)

[francisco]

Thank you.

I addressed the exposure-benifit in a few of my posts. The TeaParty has a life of it's own. The money will come. Blimp or no blimp. I think the exposure and first strike aspect of going straight to SC would actually be more benificial. The exposure-benifit we are looking for is with the people in SC/FL that we need to vote for Ron Paul.

Another thing to consider is that SC and FL are closed primaries. Must be registered Republican by Dec 16th in SC and Dec 31st in FL. Going straight to SC on the 10th, and using a concentrated effort in SC/FL while putting out the message to register, would be a great way to benifit from the exposure a blimp would give. A Boston trip does not have that effect.

It all comes down to not being convinced the MSM is our friend. They could easily downplay the blimp in Boston. It's basically just a joy ride for our pleasure. They would cover the blimp flying over Columbia, SC, just as much if the money was flowing in. I trust the local SC media a lot more. We are bringing national excitement to their state. How often do they get that? ;)

Don't NH and Boston have local media as well? Why would local media cover SC/FL but not NH/Boston?

[TCrage]

Don't NH and boston have local media as well? Why would local media cover SC/FL but not NH/Boston?

They will. But what benifit comes from local Boston coverage?

NH is our strongest state without a blimp. We need to get the benifit in the weaker states of SC/FL where local coverage would help a whole lot more.

[francisco]

... But what benifit comes from local Boston coverage?



Southern NH has highest population density of state; border is only about 30 miles from Boston; people in that part of NH watch Boston media and are fans of Boston sports teams.





NH is our strongest state without a blimp. We need to get the benifit in the weaker states of SC/FL where local coverage would help a whole lot more.

Blimp presence in Boston reinforces the NH first-in nation primary which is hugely influential on results for the next states and national stature; it is consistent with the military principle of concentration of force. Think synergism.

[TCrage]

Southern NH has highest population density of state; border is only about 30 miles from Boston; people in that part of NH watch Boston media and are fans of Boston sports teams.




Blimp presence in Boston reinforces the NH first-in nation primary which is hugely influential on results for the next states and national stature; it is consistent with the military principle of concentration of force. Think synergism.

McCain won NH in 2000. Bush won SC and FL.

This is politics.

[francisco]

McCain won NH in 2000. Bush won SC and FL.

This is politics.

True. Although some people say Bush lost the general election.

In any case, ceterus paribus a strong result in NH helps SC/FL and a weaker one hurts.

Finally, you cannot extrapolate from the results of a single election that the NH results have no meaning.

McCain' strong NH results in 2000 impelled some very nasty Rove-inspired push polling which killed him in SC/FL

[TCrage]

True. Although some people say Bush lost the general election.

In any case, ceterus paribus a strong result in NH helps SC/FL and a weaker one hurts.

Finally, you cannot extrapolate from the results of a single election that the NH results have no meaning.

McCain' strong NH results in 2000 impelled some very nasty Rove-inspired push polling which killed him in SC/FL

We are going to have a strong showing in NH without the blimp. Even the MSM is starting to admit to that.

I didn't extrapolate that the results have no meaning. Likewise you can't extrapolate that a blimp in Boston will have meaning. It's a matter of probibilties.

The probibility of having a greater impact in SC is certainly greater with the blimp over-exposure there than even a NH win would provide. Even after a win, you can't use that to encourage non-registered Republicans. That deadline has past. Now you are relying on that win influencing the registered base which is known to be pro-Bush. I think you will find that a hard sell. Going there first and providing state wide coverage is a very effective way to communicate directly to the voting audience. Quite posibly convert many in the base. And they have friends.

Nobody ever mentioned it, but I still love the idea of toys being sent by the grasroots to meetup groups(realized the campaign can't be involved) nearby the landing sites, and hand them out to parents and children who visit the blimp. What an incredible publicity generator and marketing tool. Not to mention, easy.

Also, what make you think that the current crop isn't capable of the same dirty pool Rove used? We can argue on net all day about how Paul isn't an isolationist, but does the average base voter in SC form his opinion from us? Probably not. Took us a while and McCain thankfully using it in the debate to sqaush that bug.

Actually that is all the more reason to do a preemptive strike on SC/FL so they can't.

[TCrage]

It has been days and I believe I have defended my position well.

Could we please talk about what is best for getting Ron Paul elected and put the most effective plan into action?

The blimp will fly. Please can we use it most effectively?

Pretty please?

[francisco]

It has been days and I believe I have defended my position well.

Could we please talk about what is best for getting Ron Paul elected and put the most effective plan into action?

The blimp will fly. Please can we use it most effectively?

Pretty please?

Generally, in the advertising world, SPONSORS get to decide what message (that, after all, they are paying for) they promote on which medium. For example, When Hallmark cards sponsors their TV show, they get to decide the content of their own ads. Also, as a side note, they avoid polling their competitors for advice.

Have you changed your mind and become a sponsor at this point? If not, I respectfully submit that you have less credibility in this regard than people who have chosen to make a financial committment. (In case you're wondering: yes, I am one of many sponsors).

You say that you have "defended your position well". My take is subtly different: that you have relentlessly promoted an agenda (skipping NH and Boston entirely, to use the blimp exclusively in SC/FL) that is contrary to the basic logic, also defended well by its supporters, that the blimp can be used well to synergistically support the Dec.16 event in Boston and the first-in nation critically important NH primary.

[TCrage]

Generally, in the advertising world, SPONSORS get to decide what message (that, after all, they are paying for) they promote on which medium. For example, When Hallmark cards sponsors their TV show, they get to decide the content of their own ads. Also, as a side note, they avoid polling their competitors for advice.

Have you changed your mind and become a sponsor at this point? If not, I respectfully submit that you have less credibility in this regard than people who have chosen to make a financial committment. (In case you're wondering: yes, I am one of many sponsors).

You say that you have "defended your position well". My take is subtly different: that you have relentlessly promoted an agenda (skipping NH and Boston entirely, to use the blimp exclusively in SC/FL) that is contrary to the basic logic, also defended well by its supporters, that the blimp can be used well to synergistically support the Dec.16 event in Boston and the first-in nation critically important NH primary.

When you have to resort to, "you haven't paid so shut up" when talking about a grassroots project, you only show that it isn't a grassroots project.

Your take, "that (I) have relentlessly promoted an agenda (skipping NH and Boston entirely, to use the blimp exclusively in SC/FL) that is contrary to the basic logic", demonstrates my point. There IS NO logic being applied to going to Boston/NH. Synergistically? Where is the logic? It's fluff talk. I have a problem doing that. That is why I support RP and not the others.

[francisco]

When you have to resort to, "you haven't paid so shut up" when talking about a grassroots project, you only show that it isn't a grassroots project.

Your take, "that (I) have relentlessly promoted an agenda (skipping NH and Boston entirely, to use the blimp exclusively in SC/FL) that is contrary to the basic logic", demonstrates my point. There IS NO logic being applied to going to Boston/NH. Synergistically? Where is the logic? It's fluff talk. I have a problem doing that. That is why I support RP and not the others.

If you go back and read my post carefully, I told you why actual sponsors have more standing to influence the venue of a message. I provided the analogy of Hallmark's sponsorship of their TV show.

Face it, you think you've defended your position well, but last time I looked the first destination is still NH. The lead organizer actually moved his home from Miami to NH for the project.

Maybe you should declare "Mission Accomplished!" for your "well defended" position. My advice: declare victory and go home.

[TCrage]

If you go back and read my post carefully, I told you why actual sponsors have more standing to influence the venue of a message. I provided the analogy of Hallmark's sponsorship of their TV show.

Face it, you think you've defended your position well, but last time I looked the first destination is still NH. The lead organizer actually moved his home from Miami to NH for the project.

Maybe you should declare "Mission Accomplished!" for your "well defended" position. My advice: declare victory and go home.

Great idea. I will do that.

When I first started this thread it was still the old RPBlimp site asking for grassroots help. I came, I offered. Overnight it turned into a centrally managed, fiscally bloated, for profit company operation.

You attack long-time RP supports for being "new" somehow unable to contemplate that by asking them to come here it might make them new. You have alienate the grassroots base like myself and donations are flat-lining.

It is obvious now that Klyman is on a mission to promote himself. That is why he moved BACK to NH. You have put your full faith in someone who has never even voted before because he promises glitz and glamour. You can fund his joy ride of self-promotion to Boston, I will not.

I will not post here anymore so as not to hurt your fragile egos. I hope it goes well if only for the sake of Ron Paul. If this turns into the Deaniacs orange hats and there is voter blowback in NH, it will be a tremendous shame. If we failed to get anywhere in SC and FL, even worse.

This entire thing has turned into the antitesis of a Ron Paul grassroots project.

[rancher89]

My 2 cents

As a native NC'r, I understand taking the blimp north and not going to Raleigh first. The population counts in the Hampton Roads area alone speak towards that direction. Go to DC, the NH area and do the tea party (weather permitting of course) I don't think that more than a few days, maybe a week should be spent in NH. Then head back down toward the southern states. Go through Richmond, down to Raleigh, Greensboro, and Charlotte. Then do the SC route previously posted, but in reverse! THen down to FL, by way of Charleston, Savanna, Jacksonville. Iowa is important, but "isolated" in terms of other early primaries, except Michigan--can't see going there in Dec-Jan at all imho. We will get more donations making this run in VA, DC, MD, NH and then will be able to spend time in SC and FL, which are important. If you want a blimp in Iowa or in the west, work on it. I think there is a thread about a west coast blimp. If you want it work for it.

[troyd1]

...Iowa and Nevada are unfortunately is too far away from the other points of concentrated population in other early primary states to be feasible... Nevada is too far imho, but if we wanted to go to iowa, Detroit and Chacago are on the way and Michigan could be huge and go Ron Paul.

[KevinF]

Yes, but this plan assumes the following:
(1) Good weather throughout most of December in New York and New Hampshire.
(2) That the blimp is going to be funded for more than one month.

Even I have to agree that the plan on the web page is wasteful, impractical and fairly non-optimal. I am however assuming that it will be flying over NH for the many days it is there. If it is just sitting there on the ground during December waiting around, that's even worse.
http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/FlightPlan.php

First off, it takes 4 or more hours to drive from Washington D.C. to New York city. There is no way a blimp cruising at 30-50 MPH is going to realistically make it to NY in 6 hours. Then 6 hours to get to Boston from NY is absolutely ridiculous. I don't even think you could drive it that fast on the highways.

Secondly, why spend over 20 days in New Hampshire? That's one of the few places Ron Paul can win without the added exposure of the blimp.

Lastly, why skip over all the cities on the East coast. Philadelphia is on the way from DC to NY. Also areas like Delaware and Connecticut fall right on that path. This is the weirdest part of the whole schedule. In order to make some of the distances, you'll probably need to stop over in some mid-point areas overnight anyway, so it simply makes sense to stop in places like this.

I am personally starting to agree that South Carolina and Florida should be the primary targets for the blimp. Throw in a few other southern states for good measure. RP needs to make more headway in SC and FL than in New Hampshire.

No one ever answered a major question I had. Why skip over all the cities on the East coast? Philadelphia is on the way from DC to NY, and areas like Delaware and Connecticut fall right on that path.

[RlxdN10sity]

Well TCrage, you were right all along. I just wanted to thank you again for thinking this through so thorougly, so long ago. If people would only listen to reason sooner, rather than later so much grief would be spared. This will be the most cost effective use of this blimp, even if it is only happening because they have no choice.

[Man from La Mancha]

My 2 cents

As a native NC'r, I understand taking the blimp north and not going to Raleigh first. . Wow, but Barney and Andy would of loved that.:p

.

[KevinF]

So, how close does this plan match to the new plan?

[RlxdN10sity]

I can't say that it matches exactly. But I am under the impression that the blimp will now be focusing on South Carolina with most of its flight time, and as TCrage suggested, weather up North is not likely to be blimp friendly this time of year. I only meant to suggest that he was right on many points and the research he did concerning population density and possible route was well founded and valuable. I also thought it might be good to bring this thread closer to the top in case those whom it may concern might be able to make use of the info.