Enough Intelligence On Elliot Rodger Already Existed to Stop His Killing Spree

[dannno]

Just as Edward Snowden has recently reminded us in a piece that was censored by NBC (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?453017-NBC-Censors-Edward-Snowden-s-9-11-Comments) that the Bush Administration had the intelligence to stop the 9/11 attacks and failed to do so, the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department had enough information on Elliot Rodger that could have stopped his massacre of 3 people in his apartment and 6 out on the mean streets of Isla Vista.

The Sheriff's Department was notified by health services that a person with mental illnesses resided in Isla Vista and had published a series of youtube videos that were troublesome and could possibly result in him hurting others within the general public.

Among other videos, possibly, the final 40 seconds of this video show Elliot Rodger making these threats, that while vague insinuate through words and tone that he will be using violence to carry out some type of revenge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4CressilIo

The police supposedly FAILED to even watch the videos!!

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-isla-vista-elliot-rodger-video-check-20140529-story.html

Elliot had purchased guns at the nearest gun store along with ammo. If you owned a gun store and the police came by and showed you a picture of a kid and told that he had a history of mental health illnesses and had published threats against targeted groups within the general public on youtube, don't you think the gun store owner would have obliged and told him about said purchases? Couldn't that information be used to obtain a warrant to search his apartment? Wouldn't that have turned up all of his written plans to massacre those within the general public? So where are all these state and federal licensing, mental health screening and general gun control arguments coming from when the intelligence was already there and adding all of this bureaucracy will simply add to the clutter of an already broken system and take away our rights?

[dannno]

That said, I personally would have sent a blond prostitute in place of the cops.

[PaulConventionWV]

They were too busy with all that protectin' and servin'.

[AuH20]

That said, I personally would have sent a blond prostitute in place of the cops.

It was a far deeper problem...

http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2014/05/29/psychologist-elliot-rodger-would-still-have-gone-on-killing-spree-even-if-he-had-sex-with-women/


Miller said that Rodger is “projecting and externalizing his issues constantly” throughout his manifesto and the same behavior can be seen in some of the YouTube videos he posted online.

“In his manifesto, he is projecting and externalizing his issues constantly, not taking responsibility for any role he might have in his lack of meaningful connections,” Miller stated. “He does not even seem to view relationships with women as about connection, but rather about pride, power and domination.”

Dr. Krystine Batcho, a licensed psychologist and professor at Le Moyne College, added that one particular theme is found over and over again within Rodger’s manifesto.

“I do think when you read the manifesto the jealousy theme is extremely powerful and can be found within the manifesto over and over again,” Batcho told CBS Hartford. “A lot of it might have been based on his own distorted perception on things.”

Batcho noted that there are several other recurring themes featured in Rodger’s manifesto in addition to jealousy.

“There are several recurring themes in the manifesto and I would say that one of the most predominant features of it is narcissism,” she said. “Much of his arguments and perceptions are based on being narcissist. He didn’t appear to have a way of viewing reality from other peoples’ points of view. The entire document seemed to show that he only viewed it from his own perspective. He would attribute motives to other people or blame to the popular people when in reality, he had the major role in it.”

[Occam's Banana]

The police supposedly FAILED to even watch the videos!!

What ought they to have done if they had?


Elliot had purchased guns at the nearest gun store along with ammo. If you owned a gun store and the police came by and showed you a picture of a kid and told that he had a history of mental health illnesses and had published threats against targeted groups within the general public on youtube, don't you think the gun store owner would have obliged and told him about said purchases? Couldn't that information be used to obtain a warrant to search his apartment? Wouldn't that have turned up all of his written plans to massacre those within the general public? So where are all these state and federal licensing, mental health screening and general gun control arguments coming from when the intelligence was already there and adding all of this bureaucracy will simply add to the clutter of an already broken system and take away our rights?

So ... "pre-crime" ... ?

[CaptUSA]

I am much more concerned with getting people to accept that these things happen, than I am with trying to find new ways to stop them.

We are a big country. Lots of people. An extremely small percentage of those people are severely troubled. Bad things are gonna happen. No matter what.

I think we need to just expect that these things are rare, but are part of living in a free society. (In fact, they are part of living in any society no matter how free. Why would anyone want to restrict freedoms in a vain attempt to prevent these things?)

[AFPVet]

They could've raised the local threat condition, but then again, the citizenry were unarmed... so it wouldn't have helped much.

[CaptUSA]

Oh geez, now look at this idiot:
http://gma.yahoo.com/former-roommate-santa-barbara-killer-elliot-rodger-had-202120613--abc-news-topstories.html


"I felt that this was someone who needed help and he had put himself in a position where he couldn't help himself and that puts it on the community to help those who can’t help each other," Chris Rugg, a junior who is a film major at the University of California, Santa Barbara, told ABC News.

"I had my opportunity living him when I knew things were up that I could have called in and it was my opportunity to help and I didn't," Rugg said.
Yes, yes. That is the message here. Call the cops anytime anyone is acting "fishy". :rolleyes:

[Cleaner44]

All of the intelligence gathering doesn't stop crime any more than the intelligence gathering of the 50s and 60s stopped commuinism from taking over America.

[dannno]

It was a far deeper problem...

http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2014/05/29/psychologist-elliot-rodger-would-still-have-gone-on-killing-spree-even-if-he-had-sex-with-women/

That is total bullshit.

If you actually READ the manifesto, which obviously the guy who wrote that article didn't... Elliot himself said that if ONE girl had ever talked to him, seemed interested and gone on a date with him he would have cancelled the Day of Retribution. All he needed was a tiny tiny little bit of feedback from his female peers that they saw or could potentially see some amount of value, or sexual value on him. It would have given him hope, and that was all he needed.. But he literally had zero reason to have any hope and that is what caused him to go on the murder spree.

I read the entire 114 page manifesto and heard Stephan Molyneux's excellent youtube analysis, AND I actually lived through a small corner of what he had to go through and saw how finally having sex relieved the majority of the worst and darkest part of the trauma I believe it was causing - meanwhile I knew a guy who was going through what I was but much worse, more like Elliot, and how it transformed his entire world into this completely delusional dark place (fortunately he didn't have violent tendencies). I believe men with strong sex drives, if they are not able to satiate them over time, can actually become traumatized for various reasons but it still stems from the daily physical pain and anguish that is the root of the obsession. It may be an aspergers thing, to be honest. I know that kids with autism have hyper-emotions and feelings, maybe for some aspergers patients that can include sexual feelings as well as pain.

Of course he had deep issues that stemmed from his childhood... his #1 issue that he obsessed about nearly 24/7 due to his hyper sex drive was the one that was driving those problems over the cliff because his body was constantly reminding him of sex, then he would need to mitigate that with why he wasn't having it, while fantasizing about sex, then fantasizing about the dark reality and how it would persist into the indefinite future.

Admittedly, for psychological reasons, it would be preferable that the prostitute not actually tell him and delude him into thinking she was attracted to him.. but the sex alone would have done it because it would have let him calm down for a few weeks without his obsession and think through what has really happened in his life and how he can change it in a more meaningful way.

[dannno]

What ought they to have done if they had?



So ... "pre-crime" ... ?

If somebody had a gun and said they were going to shoot you and you shot them, would you be shooting them for a pre-crime?

[Danke]

I am much more concerned with getting people to accept that these things happen, than I am with trying to find new ways to stop them.

We are a big country. Lots of people. An extremely small percentage of those people are severely troubled. Bad things are gonna happen. No matter what.

I think we need to just expect that these things are rare, but are part of living in a free society. (In fact, they are part of living in any society no matter how free. Why would anyone want to restrict freedoms in a vain attempt to prevent these things?)

This.

[Deborah K]

I am much more concerned with getting people to accept that these things happen, than I am with trying to find new ways to stop them.

We are a big country. Lots of people. An extremely small percentage of those people are severely troubled. Bad things are gonna happen. No matter what.

I think we need to just expect that these things are rare, but are part of living in a free society. (In fact, they are part of living in any society no matter how free. Why would anyone want to restrict freedoms in a vain attempt to prevent these things?)

This is an extremely tough pill to swallow if you're one of the parents who has lost a child to this kind of situation. As a parent, when my children were young, I tried to strike a balance between teaching them to be wary of strangers, and not causing them to be fearful of living in the world. Perhaps what needs to be done in these times where 'going postal' is becoming more commonplace, is to train our young in self defense, teach them how to operate a weapon, and how to recognize strange behavior, and instead of ignoring it, avoiding it at all costs.

[Henry Rogue]

Dr. Krystine Batcho, a licensed psychologist and professor at Le Moyne College, added that one particular theme is found over and over again within Rodger’s manifesto.

“I do think when you read the manifesto the jealousy theme is extremely powerful and can be found within the manifesto over and over again,” Batcho told CBS Hartford. “A lot of it might have been based on his own distorted perception on things.”
I'm not casting doubt on his prognosis, but how can a trained psychiatrist and professor not know the difference between jealousy and envy? Clearly, rodger was envious of what he did not possess.

[Deborah K]

That is total bullshit.

If you actually READ the manifesto, which obviously the guy who wrote that article didn't... Elliot himself said that if ONE girl had ever talked to him, seemed interested and gone on a date with him he would have cancelled the Day of Retribution. All he needed was a tiny tiny little bit of feedback from his female peers that they saw or could potentially see some amount of value, or sexual value on him. It would have given him hope, and that was all he needed.. But he literally had zero reason to have any hope and that is what caused him to go on the murder spree.

I read the entire 114 page manifesto and heard Stephan Molyneux's excellent youtube analysis, AND I actually lived through a small corner of what he had to go through and saw how finally having sex relieved the majority of the worst and darkest part of the trauma I believe it was causing - meanwhile I knew a guy who was going through what I was but much worse, more like Elliot, and how it transformed his entire world into this completely delusional dark place (fortunately he didn't have violent tendencies). I believe men with strong sex drives, if they are not able to satiate them over time, can actually become traumatized for various reasons but it still stems from the daily physical pain and anguish that is the root of the obsession. It may be an aspergers thing, to be honest. I know that kids with autism have hyper-emotions and feelings, maybe for some aspergers patients that can include sexual feelings as well as pain.

Of course he had deep issues that stemmed from his childhood... his #1 issue that he obsessed about nearly 24/7 due to his hyper sex drive was the one that was driving those problems over the cliff because his body was constantly reminding him of sex, then he would need to mitigate that with why he wasn't having it, while fantasizing about sex, then fantasizing about the dark reality and how it would persist into the indefinite future.

Admittedly, for psychological reasons, it would be preferable that the prostitute not actually tell him and delude him into thinking she was attracted to him.. but the sex alone would have done it because it would have let him calm down for a few weeks without his obsession and think through what has really happened in his life and how he can change it in a more meaningful way.


If a prostitute was the answer, then why didn't he just hire one? This is about more than carnal sex. He had a neurosis, or possible psychosis that was manifesting sexually. IOW sexual tension was a symptom of something much deeper.

Unfortunately, psychologists and psychiatrists are a dime a dozen anymore. Finding a good one is like looking for a needle in a haystack. But, I believe a good therapist could have helped him get to the root of his neurosis/psychosis.

[dannno]

If a prostitute was the answer, then why didn't he just hire one?

Here's the problem, when you're that desperate the idea of getting one is actually pretty scary because you are so desperate you are scared of what you might find and if you are desperate enough to possibly make a very poor decision in the matter. Part of it I think is that he looked down on them, but even then, from where? I lived in the exact same town he did when I was going through it and had no idea where I would possibly get one, I still to this day have never been propositioned by a prostitute anywhere. There is an area about 20 minutes away from there known for having transvestite prostitutes. That sounds like a fantastic first time experience, ya? No.. Cops troll craigslist. I don't believe it is as easy as it sounds, but I could be completely missing something over all these years.



This is about more than carnal sex. He had a neurosis that was manifesting sexually. IOW sexual tension was symptom of something much deeper.

Yes, as I said, he had a multitude of problems, but when you are in that state you are obsessing about sex because you haven't had any and it actually drives the psychosis and obsession further. Sorry for the gratuity but your sex drive cools of like throwing a bucket of ice cold water on an engine after you have sex - masturbating doesn't do that for whatever reason. For me, that cooling off lasts over a month before I start feeling like i'm over-heating again and more time without sex just makes it more intense, it never ends and is always inching up in intensity and can cause more obsession in the future - but the obsession isn't as bad as it was originally because you're not thinking about something that has never happened where you feel trapped in this vortex that you will never see an end to and never experience any satiation for your whole life.




Unfortunately, psychologists and psychiatrists are a dime a dozen anymore. Finding a good one is like looking for a needle in a haystack. But, I believe a good therapist could have helped him get to the root of his neurosis.

That would have cost way more than a prostitute and I am convinced he never would started to really get better until he had sex and was able to calm down and think more rationally.

[Deborah K]

Here's the problem, when you're that desperate the idea of getting one is actually pretty scary because you are so desperate you are scared of what you might find and if you are desperate enough to possibly make a very poor decision in the matter. Part of it I think is that he looked down on them, but even then, from where? I lived in the exact same town he did when I was going through it and had no idea where I would possibly get one, I still to this day have never been propositioned by a prostitute anywhere. There is an area about 20 minutes away from there known for having transvestite prostitutes. That sounds like a fantastic first time experience, ya? No.. Cops troll craigslist. I don't believe it is as easy as it sounds, but I could be completely missing something over all these years.



Yes, as I said, he had a multitude of problems, but when you are in that state you are obsessing about sex because you haven't had any and it actually drives the psychosis and obsession further. Sorry for the gratuity but your sex drive cools of like throwing a bucket of ice cold water on an engine after you have sex - masturbating doesn't do that for whatever reason. For me, that cooling off lasts over a month before I start feeling like i'm over-heating again and more time without sex just makes it more intense, it never ends and is always inching up in intensity and can cause more obsession in the future - but the obsession isn't as bad as it was originally because you're not thinking about something that has never happened where you feel trapped in this vortex that you will never see an end to and never experience any satiation for your whole life.




That would have cost way more than a prostitute and I am convinced he never would have been fixed until he had sex and was able to calm down and think more rationally.

Danno, I know you think you relate to this guy at some level. But, do you believe that if your circumstances were like his, that you would have resorted to mass murder and suicide? Or do you think you would have handled it differently?

[RabbitMan]

I am much more concerned with getting people to accept that these things happen, than I am with trying to find new ways to stop them.

We are a big country. Lots of people. An extremely small percentage of those people are severely troubled. Bad things are gonna happen. No matter what.

I think we need to just expect that these things are rare, but are part of living in a free society. (In fact, they are part of living in any society no matter how free. Why would anyone want to restrict freedoms in a vain attempt to prevent these things?)

I want to agree, but these sorts of rampages just don't happen on the same number and scale as say Europe or Japan. What's the difference? This isn't even a discussion about guns at this point.

And I agree with Occam's Banana on this one, if a cop came to someone's door and detained them for making some remarks on the internet, this thread title would be "CA - Cops break in, detain teenager for posting Youtube Video, shoot dog". These tragic rampages and what we as a society are willing to do to prevent them are part of a complex conversation that I think our country should be having. Ultimately I err on the side of individual freedom, but I could very easily see how I might not had I personally been affected by some sort of similar tragedy.

[dannno]

Danno, I know you think you relate to this guy at some level. But, do you believe that if your circumstances were like his, that you would have resorted to mass murder and suicide? Or do you think you would have handled it differently?


What circumstances? Do you mean if I was born into his body? He's probably the last person I'd want to be born as, that is a difficult question and I would certainly hope not but I don't know where his violence really came from. I have some ideas, but I don't know if I would have directed my anger the way he did or not.

The truth is I never had any violent tendencies towards females or people who were having sex like Elliot did. But I wasn't Elliot, he had much worse problems both manifesting and underlying. I had hints of female validation after puberty and he had zero. The first was when I was 13, I was being bullied and a very nice girl who I thought was very cute started walking home with me every day after school until her father put her in a private school. But she actually cared about me, nobody did anything like that for Elliot. I actually went to prom with a very pretty girl junior year, I didn't kiss her and that was 100% my fault, but she was also very nice to me and actually treated me like a human being. Starting at 19 I actually started having some intimate experiences with girls but pv sex did not come for some time. I don't know if his violent tendencies were caused by something from his upbringing or whether it was a complete and total lack of validation from age 12 - 22. So I don't know if I can completely put myself in his shoes, except for a lot of the sexual frustration and obsessions over losing my virginity. You don't really feel validated until after you lose it, everything before that is sort of like validation that you may be validated and that is important but it won't fully rid one of the obsession.

While I didn't have any violent tendencies towards others, I still thought about suicide a lot. The biggest thing holding me back, fortunately, was that I didn't want to die a virgin. When Elliot was 18 a guy told him that no girl would ever have sex with him, he said that rung through his head like an anthem after that. Same thing happened to me, fortunately the guy was wrong and I hated that he said that to me, but when I was 17 some guy told me I would die a virgin. I didn't believe him, but it was a scary thought and not something I could easily dismiss for years to come.

This is a pretty telling quote from the manifesto, at age 20 I probably, very sadly, would have agreed to his sentiments (not the part about delighting in his death, but wishing I was Nick Markowitz the 15 year old kid) even though I ended up losing my virginity and living a very full and enjoyable life before and afterward.


At father's house, we watched the movie Alpha Dog after dinner one night. This movie depicts a lot of teenagers and young people partying and having sex with beautiful girls, living the life I've desired for so long. The main character is a fifteen year old kid who has sex with two hot girls in a swimming pool. I was so envious that I delighted in his death at the end. I remember thinking that I would rather live his life than mine, even though he died. He had sex and I didn't. The movie deeply affected me emotionally, and I would think about it for some time afterwards.

[Occam's Banana]

If somebody had a gun and said they were going to shoot you and you shot them, would you be shooting them for a pre-crime?

Nothing you mentioned in the quote to which I responded constitutes an actionable initiation of aggression against any particular person or persons. Purchasing a gun does not. Having a history of "mental illness" (according to picture-showing policemen) does not. Publishing threats against "groups within the general public" does not. Posting narcissistic, self-obsessed YouTube rants does not. Writing bloody-minded manifestos does not. The scenario you described depends critically on knowing what he was going to end up doing - but that knowledge was not available until AFTER he actually did it. Without that "after the fact" awareness, all the elements you invoke add up at most to nothing but "maybe he might do something in the future ..." - IOW: "pre-crime."

If you really think that's the same thing as someone actually brandishing a gun at someone else and threatening to shoot that person right in the "here and now," then I honestly don't know what to tell you.



The police supposedly FAILED to even watch the videos!!
What ought they to have done if they had?
I repeat: What ought they to have done if they had?

[phill4paul]

If somebody had a gun and said they were going to shoot you and you shot them, would you be shooting them for a pre-crime?

Is it pointed at me? If pointed at me then, no. Is it being raised in my direction? If it is being raised in my direction then, no. If it is in a holster, beside their chair, in a gun rack, at rest, then yes.

[dannno]

Is it pointed at me? If pointed at me then, no. Is it being raised in my direction? If it is being raised in my direction then, no. If it is in a holster, beside their chair, in a gun rack, at rest, then yes.

If the gun is at rest then the statement doesn't seem serious, what about, "I am going to my house to get my gun, then I'm going to shoot you" as they turn around and head into their house?

The problem is this is semi-unrealistic scenario, most people who have the intention of killing in a rage aren't going to tell people. I don't know why he made the threats in his video, but it was clear he was intending on using violence against the general population who was innocent of doing any actual harm against him.

[acptulsa]

Setting aside what they could have done about it, after 9/11 I think we've learned to ask another question--why would they have done anything about it?

Safe people question cops, and ask themselves things like would it do any harm to cut their budget a bit? But let the cops fail in a spectacular manner and suddenly Santa Claus comes to town...

We never throw money at the competent. But we dump it on the incompetent by the truckload. And then we wonder how government turns out the way it does.

[CaptUSA]

This is an extremely tough pill to swallow if you're one of the parents who has lost a child to this kind of situation. Yeah, but we swallow that pill every day with car crashes, disease and other accidents.

Bad things happen. No need to invade privacy or restrict liberties. Just be aware.

[alucard13mm]

You would think that he would turn into a serial killer-rapist...

[phill4paul]

If the gun is at rest then the statement doesn't seem serious, what about, "I am going to my house to get my gun, then I'm going to shoot you" as they turn around and head into their house?

The problem is this is semi-unrealistic scenario, most people who have the intention of killing in a rage aren't going to tell people. I don't know why he made the threats in his video, but it was clear he was intending on using violence against the general population who was innocent of doing any actual harm against him.

If someone tells me "I am going to my house to get my gun, then I'm going to shoot you" then, no. I cannot shoot them. That would be pre-crime.

[Deborah K]

Yeah, but we swallow that pill every day with car crashes, disease and other accidents.

Bad things happen. No need to invade privacy or restrict liberties. Just be aware.

I agree there is no need to invade privacy. But this was no accident. It is something that I believe can be prevented. This can hardly be compared to disease or car crashes.

[Deborah K]

What circumstances? Do you mean if I was born into his body? He's probably the last person I'd want to be born as, that is a difficult question and I would certainly hope not but I don't know where his violence really came from. I have some ideas, but I don't know if I would have directed my anger the way he did or not.

The truth is I never had any violent tendencies towards females or people who were having sex like Elliot did. But I wasn't Elliot, he had much worse problems both manifesting and underlying. I had hints of female validation after puberty and he had zero. The first was when I was 13, I was being bullied and a very nice girl who I thought was very cute started walking home with me every day after school until her father put her in a private school. But she actually cared about me, nobody did anything like that for Elliot. I actually went to prom with a very pretty girl junior year, I didn't kiss her and that was 100% my fault, but she was also very nice to me and actually treated me like a human being. Starting at 19 I actually started having some intimate experiences with girls but pv sex did not come for some time. I don't know if his violent tendencies were caused by something from his upbringing or whether it was a complete and total lack of validation from age 12 - 22. So I don't know if I can completely put myself in his shoes, except for a lot of the sexual frustration and obsessions over losing my virginity. You don't really feel validated until after you lose it, everything before that is sort of like validation that you may be validated and that is important but it won't fully rid one of the obsession.

While I didn't have any violent tendencies towards others, I still thought about suicide a lot. The biggest thing holding me back, fortunately, was that I didn't want to die a virgin. When Elliot was 18 a guy told him that no girl would ever have sex with him, he said that rung through his head like an anthem after that. Same thing happened to me, fortunately the guy was wrong and I hated that he said that to me, but when I was 17 some guy told me I would die a virgin. I didn't believe him, but it was a scary thought and not something I could easily dismiss for years to come.

This is a pretty telling quote from the manifesto, at age 20 I probably, very sadly, would have agreed to his sentiments (not the part about delighting in his death, but wishing I was Nick Markowitz the 15 year old kid) even though I ended up losing my virginity and living a very full and enjoyable life before and afterward.

Danno, his thinking was warped. Due, as I mentioned, to underlying factors, probably psychosis of some sort. The sexual desires were a symptom, not the cause. You can't alleviate a symptom of psychosis and expect it to be anything other than a temporary fix. Like a high is for an addict. In fact, my guess is, based on my limited knowledge of the guy, that had a girl shown interest in him, and they sparked up a relationship, the psychosis most likely would have then manifested into obsessive control over the girl. Think 'Fatal Attraction'. Elliot was psychotic. There are no two ways about it.

[CaptUSA]

It is something that I believe can be prevented. Really? We are going to stop loonies from being loony?

What lengths do you think we would have to go to in order to accomplish this?

To me, this is a risk that can be mitigated, but can never be prevented. To me, I am extremely grateful that it doesn't happen more! For such a rare occurrence, I'm not sure what I would give up to stop it.

[AFPVet]

That is total bullshit.

If you actually READ the manifesto, which obviously the guy who wrote that article didn't... Elliot himself said that if ONE girl had ever talked to him, seemed interested and gone on a date with him he would have cancelled the Day of Retribution. All he needed was a tiny tiny little bit of feedback from his female peers that they saw or could potentially see some amount of value, or sexual value on him. It would have given him hope, and that was all he needed.. But he literally had zero reason to have any hope and that is what caused him to go on the murder spree.

I read the entire 114 page manifesto and heard Stephan Molyneux's excellent youtube analysis, AND I actually lived through a small corner of what he had to go through and saw how finally having sex relieved the majority of the worst and darkest part of the trauma I believe it was causing - meanwhile I knew a guy who was going through what I was but much worse, more like Elliot, and how it transformed his entire world into this completely delusional dark place (fortunately he didn't have violent tendencies). I believe men with strong sex drives, if they are not able to satiate them over time, can actually become traumatized for various reasons but it still stems from the daily physical pain and anguish that is the root of the obsession. It may be an aspergers thing, to be honest. I know that kids with autism have hyper-emotions and feelings, maybe for some aspergers patients that can include sexual feelings as well as pain.

Of course he had deep issues that stemmed from his childhood... his #1 issue that he obsessed about nearly 24/7 due to his hyper sex drive was the one that was driving those problems over the cliff because his body was constantly reminding him of sex, then he would need to mitigate that with why he wasn't having it, while fantasizing about sex, then fantasizing about the dark reality and how it would persist into the indefinite future.

Admittedly, for psychological reasons, it would be preferable that the prostitute not actually tell him and delude him into thinking she was attracted to him.. but the sex alone would have done it because it would have let him calm down for a few weeks without his obsession and think through what has really happened in his life and how he can change it in a more meaningful way.

I think you are correct.

[Deborah K]

If the gun is at rest then the statement doesn't seem serious, what about, "I am going to my house to get my gun, then I'm going to shoot you" as they turn around and head into their house?

The problem is this is semi-unrealistic scenario, most people who have the intention of killing in a rage aren't going to tell people. I don't know why he made the threats in his video, but it was clear he was intending on using violence against the general population who was innocent of doing any actual harm against him.

Where is the clip that he's making threats of violence? If there is one, then he was crying out for someone to stop him. And, if the police knew beforehand that he made those threats and did nothing, then they are culpable.

[Deborah K]

[/B]

I think you are correct.

No, the kid was psychotic. Sex doesn't cure psychosis.

[Deborah K]

Really? We are going to stop loonies from being loony?

What lengths do you think we would have to go to in order to accomplish this?

To me, this is a risk that can be mitigated, but can never be prevented. To me, I am extremely grateful that it doesn't happen more! For such a rare occurrence, I'm not sure what I would give up to stop it.

All it would really take is parental observance. Parents who are actively involved in their children's lives can recognize unusual behavior and attend to it.

[CaptUSA]

All it would really take is parental observance. Parents who are actively involved in their children's lives can recognize unusual behavior and attend to it.
Yeah, you're absolutely right! But how do you get other people's parents to do that? Even if you get 99.99%, there's still a chance something like this will happen.

[dannno]

Danno, his thinking was warped. Due, as I mentioned, to underlying factors, probably psychosis of some sort. The sexual desires were a symptom, not the cause. You can't alleviate a symptom of psychosis and expect it to be anything other than a temporary fix. Like a high is for an addict. In fact, my guess is, based on my limited knowledge of the guy, that had a girl shown interest in him, and they sparked up a relationship, the psychosis most likely would have then manifested into obsessive control over the girl. Think 'Fatal Attraction'. Elliot was psychotic. There are no two ways about it.

I didn't say it would have fixed all of his psychological problems, but it would have stopped him from going on the murder spree and he would have been much better off. Maybe he would have been a controlling boyfriend and I hope he would have never hurt anybody and I can't say that his violent tendencies would have disappeared either. But his psychosis would have been in more of an arrested state, and he may have even been able to have possibly resolved some issues where the lack of sex and the obsessions were making his psychosis worse all the time.

[Zippyjuan]

Just as Edward Snowden has recently reminded us in a piece that was censored by NBC (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?453017-NBC-Censors-Edward-Snowden-s-9-11-Comments) that the Bush Administration had the intelligence to stop the 9/11 attacks and failed to do so, the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department had enough information on Elliot Rodger that could have stopped his massacre of 3 people in his apartment and 6 out on the mean streets of Isla Vista.

The Sheriff's Department was notified by health services that a person with mental illnesses resided in Isla Vista and had published a series of youtube videos that were troublesome and could possibly result in him hurting others within the general public.

Among other videos, possibly, the final 40 seconds of this video show Elliot Rodger making these threats, that while vague insinuate through words and tone that he will be using violence to carry out some type of revenge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4CressilIo

The police supposedly FAILED to even watch the videos!!

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-isla-vista-elliot-rodger-video-check-20140529-story.html

Elliot had purchased guns at the nearest gun store along with ammo. If you owned a gun store and the police came by and showed you a picture of a kid and told that he had a history of mental health illnesses and had published threats against targeted groups within the general public on youtube, don't you think the gun store owner would have obliged and told him about said purchases? Couldn't that information be used to obtain a warrant to search his apartment? Wouldn't that have turned up all of his written plans to massacre those within the general public? So where are all these state and federal licensing, mental health screening and general gun control arguments coming from when the intelligence was already there and adding all of this bureaucracy will simply add to the clutter of an already broken system and take away our rights?


So people should be arrested for what they MIGHT do? His dad tried to stop him on that day but was too late and tried to get him psychiatric help.

[dannno]

Where is the clip that he's making threats of violence? If there is one, then he was crying out for someone to stop him. And, if the police knew beforehand that he made those threats and did nothing, then they are culpable.

I posted the video in the OP, that's what this whole thread is supposed to be about (I certainly don't blame you for my side tracking the thread). I decided against posting the text of what he said in the OP because the way he said it was much more indicative of what he was going to do later on.

Yes, people are saying the police should be culpable.. Personally I think they just made a mistake, it's in the past and there is nothing that can be done about it now. But my point was they had all the information they needed and we don't need any more gun laws, in fact we need less.

I also agree he was crying for someone to stop him.

I remember when I was 20, all I wanted to do was scream "MERCY!!" to the world and make it stop, send me a girl to have sex with so I could stop with the awful obsession.. of course that just isn't possible. I did have friends helping me fortunately.

[dannno]

So people should be arrested for what they MIGHT do? His dad tried to stop him on that day but was too late and tried to get him psychiatric help.

Where did he say he might do anything? He was making threats against the public, did you watch the last 40 seconds of the youtube? It sounded like he was determined to carry out those threats to me.

If someone says they are going to plant a bomb somewhere at a certain time, or shoot up a crowd at a specific event and its not being taken out of context and they have the means to do so that is a credible threat.

They didn't just "try" to get him psychiatric help, he was in several psychiatric programs.

[Intoxiklown]

Yes, this could have been stopped. His last video posted, "Retribution" was uploaded the day prior. In it, he says tomorrow is the day, and literally lays out his entire plan of what he is going to do.

No, I'm not linking anything to that crazy fuck's youtube account. In no way should anyone relate to him, he was a crazy fuck too crazy to verbalize how much of a crazy fuck he was. Honestly, I make it personal "FYI" to consider anybody talking like Hannibal Lector a serious potential crazy fuck, and won't be anywhere near them without at least two pistols on my person at all times.

[Deborah K]

Yeah, you're absolutely right! But how do you get other people's parents to do that? Even if you get 99.99%, there's still a chance something like this will happen.

It would most likely diminish the possibility substantially though. The only way to get parents to do it is through education. Whether it be public, private, homeschool, or whatever, part of the curriculum should include a course on 'family living', which would involve child development, running a household, and finances, conflict resolution, married life, etc. Teaching a course like this starting in first grade and progressing up to twelfth grade, with each course being age appropriate and building on previous courses, could serve to encourage young adults to plan their lives better. All of it of course, being voluntary.

[Deborah K]

I didn't say it would have fixed all of his psychological problems, but it would have stopped him from going on the murder spree and he would have been much better off. Maybe he would have been a controlling boyfriend and I hope he would have never hurt anybody and I can't say that his violent tendencies would have disappeared either. But his psychosis would have been in more of an arrested state, and he may have even been able to have possibly resolved some issues where the lack of sex and the obsessions were making his psychosis worse all the time.

Sorry, but I disagree. In fact, it's possible it might have intensified his delusions. He was mentally ill. Assuming that getting laid would cause him to come to his senses makes about as much sense as an addict coming to his senses after he gets his fix. The brain just isn't functioning well enough to rationalize logically.

[dannno]

Sorry, but I disagree. In fact, it's possible it might have intensified his delusions. He was mentally ill. Assuming that getting laid would cause him to come to his senses makes about as much sense as an addict coming to his senses after he gets his fix. The brain just isn't functioning well enough to rationalize logically.

Ya but that goes against every single experience I have gone through or witnessed in my life. You don't understand how powerful the male libido can be, in fact MOST MEN don't understand how powerful the male libido can be because 50% of men have below average libidos. If you are psychotic and part of the reason is because of lack of sex, that is going to drive you further insane. The amount of mental clarity you get after having sex when you haven't for a while, as a male, for some time afterwards is absolutely incredible. You can't relax when you are in the state he was in, all you can do is obsess and all that does is make your go further down the hole.

You may be trying to resolve what I'm saying with Christianity, I will tell you when I was about 15 or 16 was when I decided that the whole notion of how Christianity is presented today was not something that I could resolve with my life. To just dismiss my feelings and urges for women and some how "repent" and try to do better was just beyond comprehension of what I was going through.

[dannno]

Yes, this could have been stopped. His last video posted, "Retribution" was uploaded the day prior. In it, he says tomorrow is the day, and literally lays out his entire plan of what he is going to do.

No, I'm not linking anything to that crazy fuck's youtube account. In no way should anyone relate to him, he was a crazy fuck too crazy to verbalize how much of a crazy fuck he was. Honestly, I make it personal "FYI" to consider anybody talking like Hannibal Lector a serious potential crazy fuck, and won't be anywhere near them without at least two pistols on my person at all times.

Stephan said his video was uploaded hours before the killing, according to SBSO in an article I read however, the video was actually uploaded at about 9:17 which was literally minutes before the shooting rampage.

I'd like to know the real answer, but Stephan had a good point that the kid was crying for help whether THAT video was uploaded before or not, it was clear from the other videos what his intentions were going to be.

[amy31416]

That is total bullshit.

If you actually READ the manifesto, which obviously the guy who wrote that article didn't... Elliot himself said that if ONE girl had ever talked to him, seemed interested and gone on a date with him he would have cancelled the Day of Retribution. All he needed was a tiny tiny little bit of feedback from his female peers that they saw or could potentially see some amount of value, or sexual value on him. It would have given him hope, and that was all he needed.. But he literally had zero reason to have any hope and that is what caused him to go on the murder spree.

I read the entire 114 page manifesto and heard Stephan Molyneux's excellent youtube analysis, AND I actually lived through a small corner of what he had to go through and saw how finally having sex relieved the majority of the worst and darkest part of the trauma I believe it was causing - meanwhile I knew a guy who was going through what I was but much worse, more like Elliot, and how it transformed his entire world into this completely delusional dark place (fortunately he didn't have violent tendencies). I believe men with strong sex drives, if they are not able to satiate them over time, can actually become traumatized for various reasons but it still stems from the daily physical pain and anguish that is the root of the obsession. It may be an aspergers thing, to be honest. I know that kids with autism have hyper-emotions and feelings, maybe for some aspergers patients that can include sexual feelings as well as pain.

Of course he had deep issues that stemmed from his childhood... his #1 issue that he obsessed about nearly 24/7 due to his hyper sex drive was the one that was driving those problems over the cliff because his body was constantly reminding him of sex, then he would need to mitigate that with why he wasn't having it, while fantasizing about sex, then fantasizing about the dark reality and how it would persist into the indefinite future.

Admittedly, for psychological reasons, it would be preferable that the prostitute not actually tell him and delude him into thinking she was attracted to him.. but the sex alone would have done it because it would have let him calm down for a few weeks without his obsession and think through what has really happened in his life and how he can change it in a more meaningful way.

Can't that level of urge be satisfied with a goat?

[Deborah K]

Ya but that goes against every single experience I have gone through or witnessed in my life. You don't understand how powerful the male libido can be, in fact MOST MEN don't understand how powerful the male libido can be because 50% of men have below average libidos. If you are psychotic and part of the reason is because of lack of sex, that is going to drive you further insane. The amount of mental clarity you get after having sex when you haven't for a while, as a male, for some time afterwards is absolutely incredible. You can't relax when you are in the state he was in, all you can do is obsess and all that does is make your go further down the hole.

You may be trying to resolve what I'm saying with Christianity, I will tell you when I was about 15 or 16 was when I decided that the whole notion of how Christianity is presented today was not something that I could resolve with my life. To just dismiss my feelings and urges for women and some how "repent" and try to do better was just beyond comprehension of what I was going through.

I don't know why you're bringing Christianity into it. I have a bachelor's degree in Behavioral Science with a minor in Addictive Disorders. My view through this whole discussion has been through that lens. (funny, this is the second thread I brought this up in lately...) High libido does not cause psychosis. Period. Sex addiction is another issue, however. And you may be confusing the two. I don't know if you have a sexual addiction, or if Elliot was sexually obsessed. But, I would never presume to expect you to "repent" and try to do better. lol Don't assume that I fall back on my faith as an answer to everyone else's problems. That would be ridiculous.

[Deborah K]

Can't that level of urge be satisfied with a goat?

LOL!!! Or maybe a sheep?

[dannno]

Can't that level of urge be satisfied with a goat?

There are some countries where kids practice on goats or sheep at a young age before they are able to move on to women, but I doubt it is a preference and honestly I have no idea what the affect would be. Fleshlights feel pretty realistic and are better than nothing, but they don't do anything to satiate the libido unfortunately.

[dannno]

LOL!!! Or maybe a sheep?

Ya I don't know why, but I don't find it funny that some men's libidos make them so uncomfortable and desperate that it makes them do things that look completely bat shit and disgusting to everybody else. But whatever is entertaining for you, I guess.

[Deborah K]

There are some countries where kids practice on goats or sheep at a young age before they are able to move on to women, but I doubt it is a preference and honestly I have no idea what the affect would be. Fleshlights feel pretty realistic and are better than nothing, but they don't do anything to satiate the libido unfortunately.


Venereal disease is the result of this practice, I believe.

[Deborah K]

Ya I don't know why, but I don't find it funny that some men's libidos make them so uncomfortable and desperate that it makes them do things that look completely bat shit and disgusting to everybody else. But whatever is entertaining for you, I guess.

Lighten up, danno. You're starting to worry me.

[CaptUSA]

It would most likely diminish the possibility substantially though. The only way to get parents to do it is through education. Whether it be public, private, homeschool, or whatever, part of the curriculum should include a course on 'family living', which would involve child development, running a household, and finances, conflict resolution, married life, etc. Teaching a course like this starting in first grade and progressing up to twelfth grade, with each course being age appropriate and building on previous courses, could serve to encourage young adults to plan their lives better. All of it of course, being voluntary.Diminish the possibility?

Look, Deb, I'm with ya. Education is good. But from where I stand, I'd say those possibilities are pretty friggin' diminished already! I know the way our media works, it seems like these things happen often, but this is pretty rare!

It feels like we used to talk about loonies doing things like this and blame the loony. Now it's like we think we will somehow prevent loonies from existing if we all just did everything right. I don't think that is ever going to happen. There will always be a small percentage of lunatics out there and there's no telling what may set one off.

In fact, I will guarantee you that no matter what you or anyone else does, there will be another lunatic who goes on a killing spree. And the media will be there in minutes to drive up their ratings, making you think it is a more common occurrence than it actually is. It's sad, but it is natural. In my opinion, it is much wiser to learn how to accept natural phenomena than it is to think you can change it.

[amy31416]

Lighten up, danno. You're starting to worry me.

It's not funny or disgusting, it's just that we don't want to be harmed because of these things, be coerced into sex or be compelled into feeling like it's women's collective faults for not wanting to sleep with a guy who's obviously disturbed.

[Deborah K]

Diminish the possibility?

Look, Deb, I'm with ya. Education is good. But from where I stand, I'd say those possibilities are pretty friggin' diminished already! I know the way our media works, it seems like these things happen often, but this is pretty rare!

It feels like we used to talk about loonies doing things like this and blame the loony. Now it's like we think we will somehow prevent loonies from existing if we all just did everything right. I don't think that is ever going to happen. There will always be a small percentage of lunatics out there and there's no telling what may set one off.

In fact, I will guarantee you that no matter what you or anyone else does, there will be another lunatic who goes on a killing spree. And the media will be there in minutes to drive up their ratings, making you think it is a more common occurrence than it actually is. It's sad, but it is natural. In my opinion, it is much wiser to learn how to accept natural phenomena than it is to think you can change it.

How can the media "make" us think it's more common than it actually is, if they're reporting incidences as they happen? I don't get what you mean there. We'll have to agree to disagree. My background is different than yours, I'm looking at the bigger picture here too, not just educating and informing people about what to look for in a disturbed individual, but possibly preventing people from becoming disturbed in the first place through proper parenting, etc.

I know it sounds Pollyannaish. And I'm not claiming to have all the answers or that mental illness can be completely eliminated. I understand that it can't.

[MelissaWV]

It's not funny or disgusting, it's just that we don't want to be harmed because of these things, be coerced into sex or be compelled into feeling like it's women's collective faults for not wanting to sleep with a guy who's obviously disturbed.

Yep. I love how the solution is "one blond girl pretending to like him as a prostitute but hiding that she's a prostitute." Who's going to volunteer to be that girl? What happens when she quietly drifts away from him? He's so sated that he's not going to cling to or harm her? Others? Anyone who looks like her? Give me a break. This guy was not going to be rendered sane by a few weeks of libido and ego soothing.

And yeah we all see how well it's worked for certain folks in this thread. Absolutely over it. Certainly not talking about it years later as if they sympathize with someone so unfortunate as to be stricken with that rare and debilitating disease "horniness."

* * *

By the way, as for the original point of the thread, what SHOULD the police have done? What kind of punishment would be appropriate here? If you don't go as far as to say you'd remove all knives from his vicinity and take away his ability to drive, you still would have dead/injured, so I don't really see the point. Jail time for making threats? Maybe. But that just raises a whole new set of issues later on down the line.

[RJB]

Is it just me or does anyone else find it disturbing that when 1 out of 300,000,000 people goes nuts we hear suggestions to check out people who think oddly. I have about as much chance of winning the lottery as getting killed by a psycho, and I don't play the Lotto because I know the chance of winning is BS, and then add to the fact that I've educated myself as how to deal with such situations when confronted with a psycho.

Don't get F---ed with subliminally. In 1983 they were getting us to buy popcorn in movie theaters. They've advanced since then.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6PpY9qIOEg&list=PL4B1BC235371959AD&index=4

[RJB]

...

[Deborah K]

Is it just me or does anyone else find it disturbing that when 1 out of 300,000,000 people goes nuts, we hear suggestions to check out people who think oddly.

And then you add this....


.....and then add to the fact that I've educated myself as how to deal with such situations when confronted with a psycho.

[RJB]

And then you add this....

I'm a former Marine and since have taken martial arts, firearms training and 43 years of wisdom of life... So?

A free people VS sheep can live without sheepdogs/wolves protecting/abusing them.

[Deborah K]

I'm a former Marine and since have taken martial arts, firearms training and 43 years of wisdom of life... So?

It's seems like you're contradicting yourself. One the one hand, you criticize "suggestions to check out people who think oddly." And then on the other hand you state: "...I've educated myself as how to deal with such situations when confronted with a psycho."

[Danke]

Can't that level of urge be satisfied with a goat?

Why Yes nvm.

[RJB]

It's seems like you're contradicting yourself. One the one hand, you criticize "suggestions to check out people who think oddly." And then on the other hand you state: "...I've educated myself as how to deal with such situations when confronted with a psycho."

Veterans are considered potential terrorists these days.

I don't fear psychos. Walking down the street, I'm aware of people and places where someone might ambush me blocks ahead.

I pose NO threat to no one.

However, I fear these days"checking out people who think oddly" includes most of the folks on this forum.

[dannno]

Yep. I love how the solution is "one blond girl pretending to like him as a prostitute but hiding that she's a prostitute." Who's going to volunteer to be that girl? What happens when she quietly drifts away from him? He's so sated that he's not going to cling to or harm her?

Nobody is going to volunteer, that's why you pay prostitutes. Somebody would have to volunteer to pay her. Extra for the acting. And why would it be so difficult? He wouldn't have gone on his rampage yet, he's just a shy kid with some mental disabilities and is kinda weird and dark.

If she asks him back to her 'place' he would be so ecstatic he would probably try and run there to get his p into her v, and after she fucks his brains out .... yes .. he will probably fall asleep like a baby.. at which point she explains that she is actually from out of town and has a boyfriend, but she had a great time, thanks, good bye, the end. He just had sex... HE WON'T CARE ANYMORE. That's what guys do after sex, they stop caring about shit for a little while and some women interpretate as not caring about them.. but really it's just a fucking backlog of shit that fell off your shoulders that you will never understand. So ya, obviously no massacre. Ever. He will still be fucked up and will always have problems, so does everybody, but why encourage them?

And I think it is hilarious you pretend to know anything about a man's high libido. But I suppose it is great that you've never been plagued with virginal horniness that is so extreme you wish you were somebody else who had sex and died already when they were younger than you.

[RJB]

IOW I'm not afraid of Elliot Rodger. I'm more afraid of those who will attempt to determine who has the potential to be the next Ellliot Rodger.

[Deborah K]

Veterans are considered potential terrorists these days.

I don't fear psychos. Walking down the street, I'm aware of people and places where someone might ambush me blocks ahead.

I pose NO threat to no one.

However, I fear these days"checking out people who think oddly" includes most of the folks on this forum.

I didn't mean to imply that you pose a threat. It just seemed on the one hand, that you were critical of anyone (like myself) wishing to be informed of people behaving strangely, and on the other, admitting that you, yourself were trained to identify oddballs. And no, I'm not talking about freedom lovers. I'm talking about people like Elliot Rogers. The more informed the public is about how to recognize strange behavior, the better, in my flea bitten opinion.

[Pericles]

...............without at least two pistols on my person at all times.

A good policy under any circumstances. If this was done by everyone, much mischief could be prevented.

[fr33]

I fear that this minority of socially awkward youth, which has always been a thing, is increasing. Even though it's expected these social cripples will exist at some small percentage. The tea-cup generation of today has been enabled to not have ever done any physical labor, not have had the ambition to go out and explore, and instead has been convinced that therapists, drugs, gaming, and online interaction are able to replace these needs.

A couple of weeks ago I read a thread on reddit asking 30 year old virgins to explain their situation. It blew me away how fucked up socially these people are. So afraid of adventure. So coddled and willing to blame everyone else for not taking chances. I thought I was somewhat socially reclusive but these people are fucked up.

[MelissaWV]

Nobody is going to volunteer, that's why you pay prostitutes. Somebody would have to volunteer to pay her. Extra for the acting. And why would it be so difficult? He wouldn't have gone on his rampage yet, he's just a shy kid with some mental disabilities and is kinda weird and dark.

If she asks him back to her 'place' he would be so ecstatic he would probably try and run there to get his p into her v, and after she fucks his brains out .... yes .. he will probably fall asleep like a baby.. at which point she explains that she is actually from out of town and has a boyfriend, but she had a great time, thanks, good bye, the end. He just had sex... HE WON'T CARE ANYMORE. That's what guys do after sex, they stop caring about shit for a little while and some women interpretate as not caring about them.. but really it's just a fucking backlog of shit that fell off your shoulders that you will never understand. So ya, obviously no massacre. Ever. He will still be fucked up and will always have problems, so does everybody, but why encourage them?

And I think it is hilarious you pretend to know anything about a man's high libido. But I suppose it is great that you've never been plagued with virginal horniness that is so extreme you wish you were somebody else who had sex and died already when they were younger than you.

No one has ever gotten obsessed with a woman who finally had sex with them, and he will never be horny again. Problem totally solved.

This same person who is so horny and desperate for validation and sex is going to settle for doing it exactly once, and let the woman go on with her life, right? Nothing bad could happen there.

Riddle me this: why are you, who claim to have had certainly more than one encounter, so horny then? What if it just stopped? What if only one person on the entire planet were your perceived chance at sexual gratification, and they said they had a boyfriend in another town? "Oh she is probably with one of those losers I talk about in my manifesto... I'd be doing her a favor if I killed him" comes to mind.

Ah but no. Once he had sex one time and never again, he would be a well-adjusted young man.

Oh and seriously, quit pretending you know anything about what any woman is thinking sexually, or jack shit about anyone else's libido. I'm embarrassed for you.

[osan]

Admittedly, for psychological reasons, it would be preferable that the prostitute not actually tell him and delude him into thinking she was attracted to him.. but the sex alone would have done it because it would have let him calm down for a few weeks without his obsession and think through what has really happened in his life and how he can change it in a more meaningful way.

Lay off the blunts... no, really, lay off.

[osan]

I am much more concerned with getting people to accept that these things happen, than I am with trying to find new ways to stop them.

Never happen barring a sea-change in the average American psyche.


We are a big country. Lots of people. An extremely small percentage of those people are severely troubled. Bad things are gonna happen. No matter what.


I know that. You know that. Most here know that... but the meaner does not and getting him to accept it will make pulling teeth as a cake walk.

[CaptUSA]

Some of the creepiest, yet real lyrics ever sung.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoQO1H30Y1A

[dannno]

No one has ever gotten obsessed with a woman who finally had sex with them, and he will never be horny again. Problem totally solved.

This same person who is so horny and desperate for validation and sex is going to settle for doing it exactly once, and let the woman go on with her life, right? Nothing bad could happen there.

I have no idea where these concerns are coming from, she is a prostitute from LA most likely and gives him a fake name and tells him she is from out of town and has a boyfriend, he will at that time be plenty happy with what just happened and when he goes to find her later on the internet nothing will turn up.. plus he knows she is involved with someone else so he won't even be that interested, she obviously made it clear it was a one time thing. Once he realizes it is possible for a girl to feel that way for him, his fear of girls will subside - they won't disappear but they will be significantly less. His hatred for girls will subside. It will still exist, but it will be significantly less. The obsessions will end at least for a while and he will be less likely to stalk. The only guy I knew who stalked girls was a virgin, he was very delusional but he didn't have violent tendencies or thoughts so his friends that had known him for many years thought he was mostly harmless, but we would still try and keep an eye on him and try to talk him down from some of his delusions and discourage his stalking activities. He had never even kissed a girl, and this is the dark place where I think these type of actions come from, though maybe not the only one I haven't studied the topic that much.



Riddle me this: why are you, who claim to have had certainly more than one encounter, so horny then? What if it just stopped? What if only one person on the entire planet were your perceived chance at sexual gratification, and they said they had a boyfriend in another town? "Oh she is probably with one of those losers I talk about in my manifesto... I'd be doing her a favor if I killed him" comes to mind.

Riddle me this: why do you assume I'm horny right now? I've been having fairly regular sex with a consistent partner who I've lived with for a while now. I'm mostly just re-living old memories due to this incident and reading through the manifesto.

There is no reason to think that there is only one person on the entire planet that is your perceived chance at sexual gratification when you have just had casual sex with an attractive girl, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. There is no reason he would have thought that at all. Not to mention, most guys know, and Elliot had probably been told that women tend to be able to sense out virgins and guys who are more sexually needy and are less attracted to them. One of my first thoughts when I decide or the person I'm in a sexual relationship decides to end the relationship my first thought is that I'll be able to go out and more easily attract other girls for some time than when I was going through a dry spell.




Ah but no. Once he had sex one time and never again, he would be a well-adjusted young man.


I never said he would be completely well adjusted, but it would have been MORE adjusted than he was. Continuing to deny him sex and any sort of female validation was just making his psychosis exponentially worse. He needed to end his obsession, and I have outlined the best solution for that which could have been implemented in the 2-3 years before the incident when he was already gone into his personal hellscape and had no chance. I don't have many good solutions for what to do before then besides not putting him on psychotropics and parental changes, because you can't exactly force kids to be friends with a kid who is kinda weird. But when I was bullied at age 13, I was kinda weird but it was another girl who felt bad for me and walked home with me every day after school and I think that and similar incidents that helped increase my faith in humanity likely helped to prevent these thoughts from forming where over time they can eventually take hold.

[Danke]

Riddle me this: why do you assume I'm horny right now?

Umm...no idea...

[DamianTV]

Surveillance has NOTHING to do with protecting people. It has EVERYTHING to do with crushing dissent.

[MelissaWV]

Stupidity: Assuming that someone who is sick enough to kill random people three different ways and endanger many others, will somehow gain perspective and behave sanely if only he'd get laid.

My bad on assuming you were horny. From your statement, dannno, you are not horny but having consistent sex. Please stop forcing yourself to have sex when you have no desire to.

My earlier advice still stands, but I'm no longer embarrassed for you. I will put your admittedly uneducated-on-the-subject-of-stalkers self out of mind, because honestly, this sort of crud just causes headaches. You could start a charity to hire hookers for these poor young innocents instead of pontificating on the internet about it. Make sure you let your girls know what they're getting into. See what their opinions are on whether or not they've ever been stalked by someone who didn't want them to get away.

[Danke]

You could start a charity to hire hookers for these poor young innocents instead of pontificating on the internet about it.

I didn't know you were an Ageist.

[dannno]

Stupidity: Assuming that someone who is sick enough to kill random people three different ways and endanger many others, will somehow gain perspective and behave sanely if only he'd get laid.

Since you keep repeating it over and over, and I keep repeating that I never said that he would be completely better but would merely lose a lot of the obsessions he had which may allow him to heal himself and deal with life better than continuing to go through those obsessions, I will refer back to previous threads where we have circular arguments and you don't listen to what I'm saying and have to assume you aren't even trying to read or understand my posts.





My bad on assuming you were horny. From your statement, dannno, you are not horny but having consistent sex. Please stop forcing yourself to have sex when you have no desire to.

Ya, see, we are completely talking past each other here. Let me see if I can explain myself a little better.

When I am having consistent sex I still have the desire to have sex 1-2 times a day as long as my partner is up for it, I have the desire to masturbate about once a week after my last time having sex until my next time and I'm only horny for the most part when I choose to think about sex or am with my partner. That is entirely different from what I am talking about, which is 'horny' as a constant state that won't go away. What I am talking about is being horny constantly and having thoughts of sex forced upon your psyche constantly and not being able to satiate those desires, even through masturbation. I don't know about others but I don't even begin to begin to get to that state for 4-5 weeks or longer after I've had sex, that whole time before it begins is like being on a vacation. Then it hits, sometimes harder than others and creeps in slowly depending on many other factors, but it usually doesn't get really bad and start affecting you psychologically or become traumatizing until you have to deal with it for a while.. the longer you have to deal with it without being able to satiate it the worse. I prefer to be able to think about sex when I feel like it, have it when I feel like, which is very often, but when after it has been a long time and I don't have access to it and it is being CONSTANTLY forced on my psyche 24/7 and I cannot attain it at that time, and no amount of masturbation satiates the desire for more than an hour but it really doesn't even do that, that is the state of being horny that I am referring to - when it is part of your state constantly.. Sorry for the miscommunication.