Euro Sceptics top EU Parliament elections: Ukip in the UK, National Front in France.

[William Tell]

European elections results 2014: Nigel Farage's Ukip on course to top poll as Europe takes a swing to the right


http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9434057.ece/alternates/w620/Farage-PA.jpg







Ukip likely to beat Labour to first place, with Tories dropping to third for first time ever in a national election.



Nigel Farage inflicted another body blow on the three main political parties on Sunday night as Ukip scored a stunning victory in the European Parliament elections.

The anti-EU party dramatically built on its success in the local elections in England last Thursday when the results of the Euro poll on the same day were announced. A jubilant Mr Farage hailed the outcome as “an earthquake because never before in the history of British politics has a party seen to be an insurgent party ever topped the polls in a national election.”
The Conservatives, Labour and Liberal Democrats conceded that Ukip would come first. It looked on course to double the 13 seats it won in the last Euro elections in 2009. The Tories, who came first last time with 25 seats, faced the humiliation of dropping to third place for the first time ever in a national election. The Liberal Democrats suffered a disastrous result, conceding that they could lose all 12 of their MEPs, which would increase the grassroots pressure on Nick Clegg to stand down as party leader. Early results suggested the Lib Dems could come an embarrassing fifth behind the Green Party.
Lib Dem fears of a total wipeout were confirmed when they lost their seat in their one-time stronghold of the South West. Sir Graham Watson, president of the Liberal group in the European Parliament, was ousted by the Greens.
After results in six of the 12 regions, Ukip had won 29.2 per cent of the votes (up 12.1 points since the last Euro elections); Labour 24.5 per cent (up 8.8 points); the Tories 23.5 per cent (down 3.5 points); the Greens 7.6 per cent (down 0.5 points) and the Lib Dems 6.8 per cent (down 6.9 points).
Across the EU, nationalist and Eurosceptic parties made big gains (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/european-election-results-2014-farright-parties-flourish-across-europe-in-snub-to-austerity-9434069.html) amid predictions that they would double their strength in the European Parliament. In France, Marine Le Pen's Front National topped a nationwide poll for the first time in its history, with the anti-immigrant party predicted to take 25 per cent of the vote and win as many as 24 seats in the European Parliament.

Ms Le Pen said France had “shouted loud and clear” that it wanted to be run “by the French, for the French and with the French” and not by “foreign commissioners” in Brussels. Manuel Valls, France’s Socialist Prime Minister, said the victory was “more than a shock, it's an earthquake”.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/european-elections-results-2014-sweeping-gains-for-nigel-farages-ukip-deal-further-body-blow-to-main-parties-9434042.html

[compromise]

The most important wins were 5 MEPs from libertarian parties - 4 from the Congress of the New Right in Poland, 1 from the Party of Free Citizens in the Czech Republic.

[William Tell]

The most important wins were 5 MEPs from libertarian parties - 4 from the Congress of the New Right in Poland, 1 from the Party of Free Citizens in the Czech Republic.

I don't know enough about them to comment. But Ukip, and Front Nationale both coming in first in the UK and France may spell the end of the EU. Marine La Pen and Nigel Farage both admire, and have met with Ron Paul.

[compromise]

I don't know enough about them to comment. But Ukip, and Front Nationale both coming in first in the UK and France may spell the end of the EU. Marine La Pen and Nigel Farage both admire, and have met with Ron Paul.

FN are a European nationalist/traditionalist party that is generally for economic interventionism. UKIP are much better, but aside from their leader, a lot of them are just mainline right-wing conservatives. These two parties in Poland and the Czech Republic (KNP and Svobodni) are extremely libertarian by comparison.

This video tells you all you need to know about the Congress of the New Right:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiXFwalMQjc

Party of Free Citizens was formed by the economic advisor of Vaclav Klaus, the former Czech President who previously invited Ron Paul to speak at a Mises tribute event a few years back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLoDMv4XsWw

[Southron]

A little nationalism would do the world a lot of good.

[William Tell]

A little nationalism would do the world a lot of good.

Yes, we've had enough Globalism.

[Paulbot99]

I'm sure the Left is sulking and complaining about "Nazis" with these results.

[Petar]

I'm an "EU citizen" but this is some damn good news...

[William Tell]

I'm an "EU citizen" but this is some damn good news...

Yeah, but not worth a +rep? :confused::(

[Petar]

Yeah, but not worth a +rep? :confused::(

Sorry, had neglected to take care of business there...

This really is a major political earthquake that has just happened though... almost reminds me of the fall of the Berlin wall or something...

Now we just need to follow up with a Rand Paul Presidency, and a collapse of communism in North Korea and also China for good measure...

[ctiger2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4fC9PBgIYs

[NoOneButPaul]

1) Just goes to show the elections are not fixed. Voting makes a difference. Do it.
2) Also goes to show the European people have had enough centralized government and are sick of it.
3) It means Rand's chances here are increasing because it indicates a tide change.

Imagine Rand and Farage leading the US and UK at the same time?

[ClydeCoulter]

Ukip storms European elections

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10855972/Ukip-storms-European-elections.html

Perhaps a good sign, no?

[ClydeCoulter]

1) Just goes to show the elections are not fixed. Voting makes a difference. Do it.
2) Also goes to show the European people have had enough centralized government and are sick of it.
3) It means Rand's chances here are increasing because it indicates a tide change.

Imagine Rand and Farage leading the US and UK at the same time?

The world could use a sigh of relief. Not a rest, just yet, but a sign of relief.

[francisco]

I'm sure the Left is sulking and complaining about "Nazis" with these results.

You are prescient.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014811418

[ctiger2]

You are prescient.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014811418

Funny, one idiot posted Inside the Troubling Rise of Fascist Parties Across Europe (http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/inside-the-troubling-rise-of-fascist-parties-across-europe/)

Umm, I hate to break it to you but the Fascists have been in charge. What do you think someone like Hollande is? Big Govt Authoritarian Collectivist Fascist. #Duh

[Paulbot99]

You are prescient.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014811418

What can I say? I read youtube comments. You start to see a pattern after a while.

[William Tell]

British National Party leader Nick Griffin lost his seat.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/bnp/10856013/BNP-leader-Nick-Griffin-loses-seat-as-MEP.html

[TaftFan]

This is a great lesson in debating:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFQkCMb2zBE

[TaftFan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uqr_nlcezk

[GunnyFreedom]

The most important wins were 5 MEPs from libertarian parties - 4 from the Congress of the New Right in Poland, 1 from the Party of Free Citizens in the Czech Republic.

My Polish blood is very gratified. :)

[francisco]

My Polish blood is very gratified. :)

The Poles have a lot to be proud of. The Solidarity movement changed the world and was an instrumental early influence in bringing down the Soviet Union.

Only slightly OT, in the 1976 debates between Ford and Carter, Ford was unjustifiably mocked by an ignorant commentariat and media, for saying that the Polish people didn't view themselves as being under the dominion of the USSR. He was actually correct.

[ProIndividual]

A little nationalism would do the world a lot of good.

Nationalism is the plague that gives us statism (hence, nation-state). Nationalism is NOT the same as patriotism. Individualism would do the world a lot of good.

Does anyone know what you get when you add nationalism, populism, and turbulent economic times? I'll give you a hint: nationalism necessarily precedes statism in nation-states (you can't have a nation-state form unless it is preceded by a nationalist movement), and populism with nationalism precedes the answer to my question when a bad economy makes people so desperate as to look for answers, even radical nationalist, statist, populist answers, from anyone that seems to be confident and have hollow pseudo-answers (political rhetoric).

A further clue: the answer to my question is f---ism (see if you can fill in the blanks).

I don't think Farage or La Pen are fascists, but they are no libertarians...period. I'd be wary of cheerleading them from here on out, now that they have some power. It'd be good for them to withdraw from the EU, but to replace that with nationalism is not a good thing from a libertarian point of view. Nationalism is a form of collectivist thinking...the same one that gets teenagers to sign away their life and limbs to the military and go to war under the false impression the politicians lies are actually true, and allows them to believe this based on emotion-evoking pseudo-religious rituals like anthems, pledges, and flag-waving any time anyone logically questions the truth of the politicians' statements about the "justification" for war, and the troops' (and cops') blind allegiance to authority and lack of individual ethics (which would entail individual responsibility for their actions, even when following orders).

Fuck nationalism. I prefer individualism, as a libertarian.

And before the illogical ad hominem about leftism comes, I'm a free market anarchist, individualist, and damn sure not some left-statist. I just have read history and philosophy enough to know nationalism is dangerous no matter who uses it, and to know it's anti-individualism (even if the lying politicians' rhetoric claim it isn't).

[nobody's_hero]

I don't know enough about them to comment. But Ukip, and Front Nationale both coming in first in the UK and France may spell the end of the EU. Marine La Pen and Nigel Farage both admire, and have met with Ron Paul.

I'm thinking if a euro-skeptic wave hits Germany, the E.U. is done.

[nobody's_hero]

Fuck nationalism. I prefer individualism, as a libertarian.
.

Your points on blind nationalism are duly noted.

But I also try to keep in mind that the E.U. organization as it stands now is a supra-nationalist organization complete with its own flag and anthem. By becoming 'nationalist', these euroskeptic countries are actually pushing a much-needed form of decentralization.

The structure is as follows: The world is decentralized by countries. Countries are decentralized by states. States are decentralized by even more localized governments. And localized governments are decentralized by individualism.

It's extremely difficult for the individual to thrive in a multi-national autocracy such as the E.U. Odd as it may seem, nationalism in the case of E.U. nations is actually a step back towards individualism. (which should give everyone an idea of how bad things are)

Also, in my opinion, Farage makes valid points that the E.U. has actually caused more disharmony among nations by attempting to put them all under one giant bureaucratic umbrella.

[ProIndividual]

Your points on blind nationalism are duly noted.

But I also try to keep in mind that the E.U. organization as it stands now is a supra-nationalist organization complete with its own flag and anthem. By becoming 'nationalist', these euroskeptic countries are actually pushing a much-needed form of decentralization.

The structure is as follows: The world is decentralized by countries. Countries are decentralized by states. States are decentralized by even more localized governments. And localized governments are decentralized by individualism.

It's extremely difficult for the individual to thrive in a multi-national autocracy such as the E.U. Odd as it may seem, nationalism in the case of E.U. nations is actually a step back towards individualism. (which should give everyone an idea of how bad things are)

Also, in my opinion, Farage makes valid points that the E.U. has actually caused more disharmony among nations by attempting to put them all under one giant bureaucratic umbrella.

I agree that decentralization is a good thing. I just don't want them to stop that decentralization at the nation-state level (as opposed to the supra-nation-state level the EU is at now). This might be a step in the right direction, but it can be a very dangerous step if there is no progression (not Progressive, mind you) to individualism from there. The stances these nationalists take on immigration (among a few other things) is a scary sign that they have no interest in moving to the logical end of individualism. For now, it's likely fine, as I don't see these folks (Farage and La Pen) as raving fascists at all. But who will be their successors? What happens if another huge collapse of global markets occurs? How will their nationalism and populism mix with that economic condition?

It's a fine line between moving in the right direction (moving from supra-nationalism to nationalism on a more decentralized level), stopping short of individualism, and moving in the right direction only to shift in an entirely wrong direction.

For now, I'm cautiously optimistic. And I'm also going to have my "skeptical hat" on now that they have some power (because you can't abuse power until you have it).

I'd compare this (the same way you did) to States seceding from the Union here, and the States that seceding being led by a nationalist (on a State level), populist fervor. One market collapse, and look out. It's a crap-shoot that you have a good person in control who won't go full fascist as a knee-jerk reaction, or that one of their immediate successors won't. It's a fine line. I'd be very cautious, but optimistic, since decentralization is the right direction. However, let me say, State level tyranny is no better than federal tyranny...both feel the same to the individual victims. That's why decentralization to the State isn't far enough, and either is the county, city, or neighborhood (although those are all the right direction)...the only "far enough" is decentralization to the individual. That way tyranny is basically impossible.

I think we agree on all that, so we're on the same page. I'm just trying to keep everyone on their Ps and Qs, and that way we don't get sucked into blind support for these people. Our support should be for ideas, philosophy, etc...not people. It's ultra tempting to lose sight of that when we are making progress toward out goals, especially when it is through political means, because personalities are easy to buy into (and it's easy to forget about the ideas, philosophy, etc.).

And for the record, I've enjoyed watching Farage's videos on YouTube for some time...he really hands those EU statists their ass...lol. The Brits have a few good speakers, imho.

[Lucille]

Europe Voted: Anti-EU And Protest Parties Take Nearly A Third Of All Europarliament Seats
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-26/europe-voted-anti-eu-and-protest-parties-take-nearly-third-all-europarliament-seats


For those pressed for time, here is the one-chart post-mortem of what happened in yesterday's elections for European Parliament: the malcontents block, or the anti-EU and protest parties, soar and now control nearly a third of all seats, up nearly by 33% from a fifth currently, in the parliament they all predominantly loathe.

http://www.openeurope.org.uk/Content/Documents/Images/EPFA5.png

European Voters Are Revolting; France Warns "Situation Is Grave For Europe"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-25/european-voters-are-revolting-france-warns-situation-grave-europe


...DRAGHI SAYS PEOPLE VOTING ACROSS EUROPE ARE CLEARLY DISENGAGED

Disengaged? - or totally pissed off with promises that never materialize and wealth that only trickles down to the uber-richest and uber-elitest.
[...]
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/05-overflow/20140525_EU_1_0.png

Right Storm Rising
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-25/right-storm-rising


With England's euro-skeptic UKIP expected to win what will be the first insurgent party victory since 1910 and France's establishment concerned of "grave consequences" for the European Union following the National Front's win; given the strong turnout Europe-wide, the rise of the anti-European Union right is clear to see...

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/05-overflow/20140525_anti_0.png

France Has Largest Swing in All of Europe Against the EU Commission and its Socialist Agenda
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/05/26/france-has-largest-swing-in-all-of-europe-against-the-eu-commission-and-its-socialist-agenda/


The elections have indeed been a huge rejection of the EU policies. What is happening in France prefigures what will happen in all European countries.
[...]
The EU Commission took out the heads of Greece and Italy who wanted to leave the Eurozone. What will they do now? If there was ever a Doctor Evil, it has been the European Commission.

First Time in British History 3rd Party Wins! Welcome the Rise in 3rd Parties
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/05/25/first-time-in-british-history-3rd-party-wins-welcome-the-rise-in-3rd-parties/


...In France, the birthplace of Communism & Socialism where 50% of the youth just want out, delivered a monumental political upset. France’s PM called this a “political earthquake”. They are also saying that the ”Situation Is Grave For Europe” This demonstrates that the career political class cannot grasp that their day has come.
[...]
When I say we are going to see the same trend hit here in the USA come 2016 and the Republican Party will split because they do not grasp what is taking place – I am not joking. Our forecasts on this political development are well-known since we published this back in 1985 and renewed it several times in the 1990s. Here was a chart from 1996.

http://i0.wp.com/armstrongeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/preselec-3.jpg?resize=496%2C374

:)

[William Tell]

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/p526x296/10304434_761929820495577_2750629362202964426_n.png

[nobody's_hero]

I agree that decentralization is a good thing. I just don't want them to stop that decentralization at the nation-state level (as opposed to the supra-nation-state level the EU is at now).

Certainly. I hope it sparks a movement to return back to individualism. To hear Farage speak of British common law and the right of a person to have a trial (and hear him point out how the E.U. has practically destroyed any chance for that to happen, with compulsory extradition among member states regardless of evidence; referring to the European Arrest Warrant, which sounds like a truly horrific thing) makes me believe we haven't much to fear that he might turn into a Hitler of sorts, although I don't know much about the FN and its leaders.

[GunnyFreedom]

FN are a European nationalist/traditionalist party that is generally for economic interventionism. UKIP are much better, but aside from their leader, a lot of them are just mainline right-wing conservatives. These two parties in Poland and the Czech Republic (KNP and Svobodni) are extremely libertarian by comparison.

This video tells you all you need to know about the Congress of the New Right:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiXFwalMQjc


LOL ok, now my polish blood is bouncing around doing a happy-dance. It's very unsettling, actually. :D

[GunnyFreedom]

The Poles have a lot to be proud of.

Especially the victory of the four MEP's from the party that models itself after Ron Paul! :eek:


The Solidarity movement changed the world and was an instrumental early influence in bringing down the Soviet Union.

http://img2u.info/img/g5962f12b.jpg :D


Only slightly OT, in the 1976 debates between Ford and Carter, Ford was unjustifiably mocked by an ignorant commentariat and media, for saying that the Polish people didn't view themselves as being under the dominion of the USSR. He was actually correct.

Gerald Ford was also the originator of "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have." Not that he was himself very principled in governing, but clearly he had a principled streak somewhere within him that the machine was unable to eradicate. :)

[Zippyjuan]

As I understand it, the French party is leftist and the UK one conservative so they definately will differ politically. Also I believe that they are still a small enough minority to have little impact on policy.

[William Tell]

As I understand it, the French party is leftist and the UK one conservative so they definately will differ politically. Also I believe that they are still a small enough minority to have little impact on policy.

National Front is not leftist at all. The point is, that a plurality want out of the EU, that is big news.

[GunnyFreedom]

As I understand it, the French party is leftist and the UK one conservative so they definately will differ politically. Also I believe that they are still a small enough minority to have little impact on policy.

UKIP may (or may not) have the ability to carry the PM, but as the largest vote-getter in the nation and a clear plurality of Parliament, I would hardly consider them lacking in influence.

[William Tell]

UKIP may (or may not) have the ability to carry the PM, but as the largest vote-getter in the nation and a clear plurality of Parliament, I would hardly consider them lacking in influence.

They don't have any UK House of Commons seats yet, though. They should win some next year.

[heavenlyboy34]

A little nationalism would do the world a lot of good.
:confused: Zuh? Nationalism is only second place in evil behind Globalism. Nationalism was one of the most destructive (pseudo)intellectual movements of the 20th century.

[Southron]

:confused: Zuh? Nationalism is only second place in evil behind Globalism. Nationalism was one of the most destructive (pseudo)intellectual movements of the 20th century.

Without a bit of nationalism there is little will to fight global government. I dont see it coming from other groups.

[purplechoe]

http://img2u.info/img/g5962f12b.jpg :D

I'm not sure if you know this but Solidarność (Solidarity) movement was just an uprising against the USSR. They still wanted socialism, just didn't want Moscow dictating policy. They wanted to be the ones that dug their own grave, so to speak. My father was a part of it in the 70's and 80's. Wałęsa was controlled opposition is the rumor going around. The closest to a Polish Ron Paul is Janusz Korwin-Mikke...

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/9/4995/z4995219X.jpg

[GunnyFreedom]

I'm not sure if you know this but Solidarność (Solidarity) movement was just an uprising against the USSR. They still wanted socialism, just didn't want Moscow dictating policy. They wanted to be the ones that dug their own grave, so to speak.

Yeah, I actually knew that, but it was still a significant increment in the right direction. For the paradigm they emerged from, self-rule was HUGE. Even if it was self-rule under a system similar to that which they escaped. It also has led them along a path to where they have arrived today, that is with a higher percentage of Ron Paulers in their government than we have in the US today. :p


My father was a part of it in the 70's and 80's. Wałęsa was controlled opposition is the rumor going around. The closest to a Polish Ron Paul is Janusz Korwin-Mikke...

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/9/4995/z4995219X.jpg

I am betting he is giddy with happiness or hungover from the party right about now.

[purplechoe]

I am betting he is giddy with happiness or hungover from the party right about now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/content/images/2006/12/12/polish_party_sign_203x152.jpg

Polish prime minister...

http://bestofmeanwhilein.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/meanwhile-in-poland-prime-minister.jpg

http://www.buzzhunt.co.uk/wp-content/2012/08/meanwhile-in-poland.jpg

http://s21.postimg.org/ntfckoeg7/1317_the_gang_bang_theory_700.jpg

:)