A neutral look at police brutality. What the police have to say. Graph.

[phill4paul]

http://www.graphs.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/police-brutality-statistics.jpg

[RPfan1992]

Its good to see that we now have statistics to show how corrupt cops are rather than just anecdotal evidence.

[liberty2897]

Its good to see that we now have statistics to show how corrupt cops are rather than just anecdotal evidence.

Here is another one to explore...

http://www.policemisconduct.net/

annual statistics
http://www.policemisconduct.net/statistics/

database in xls format (very descriptive)
http://www.policemisconduct.net/databases/

[phill4paul]

//

[Anti Federalist]

I owe Phill a rep...somebody cover me please.

[Anti Federalist]

84% have witnessed use of unnecessary force.

The other 16% are the ones doing it.

No Good Cops.

Do Not Call Cops.

[phill4paul]

I owe Phill a rep...somebody cover me please.

Meh, no need. Just keep hammering to anyone and everyone.

[Anti Federalist]

Meh, no need. Just keep hammering to anyone and everyone.

Everywhere I can.

[ZENemy]

There are roughly 800,000 cops (local, state, fed). If only 2% are "bad", that's 16,000 dirt-bags doing bad things, and 784,000 (Good cops?) dirt-bags looking the other way.

[helmuth_hubener]

This is excellent information, Phil. Thank you very much!


No Good Cops. Except for Dock Cops


Do Not Call Cops. Unless you're reporting tariff violations.

[Henry Rogue]

This is excellent information, Phil. Thank you very much!

Except for Dock Cops

Unless you're reporting tariff violations.
Do you feel the need to derail this thread?

[libertyjam]

The Myth of the Good Guy Cop by Christopher Cantwell (http://www.christophercantwell.com/author/chris/) • May 17, 2014 • 16 Comments (http://www.christophercantwell.com/2014/05/17/myth-good-guy-cop/#comments) On the Cop Block Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/CopBlock), comments on this blog, and on my YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/FreedomFighter631), and really anywhere you say anything negative about police in general, there is one common theme you can expect to hear from the voting cattle and government propagandabots. “You shouldn’t paint with such a broad brush, sure there are some bad cops out there, but most cops are good guys. Maybe not most, but some of them exist. Someday you might need a cop” or some variation thereof.
http://www.christophercantwell.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Myth-of-the-Good-Guy-Cop1.gif (http://www.christophercantwell.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Myth-of-the-Good-Guy-Cop1.gif)The Myth of the Good Guy Cop

This is absolute nonsense. The fact of the matter is, the best cop on the planet, would be a do nothing tax leech. Literally, the best case scenario for a police officer, would be somebody who showed up for work, got in his squad car, parked it, and went to sleep. Now of course, we see this from time to time, and perhaps we could thank those sleepy evildoers for not harming anyone that day, except for the fact that they are getting paid to do the exact opposite, and they are paid by taxation.
Taxation is theft. No matter what your opinion on taxes is, this is proven by the fact that myself and others do no consent to taxation. Our money is taken from us without our consent, and under threat of violence. If we do not pay, men (cops, actually) will break into our homes, shoot our pets, and kidnap us. If we resist, they will gun us down without a second thought. If you think that’s a morally justifiable thing because some slave owners wrote a document 230 some odd years ago, that’s a topic for another article, but it’s still theft.
So really, when the highest possible aspiration for a man with a uniform is literally that of being a lazy thief, one can easily imagine that the jump to heroic savior of mankind is rather unlikely.
Because the other thing that we know is, cops have quotas, or at least, some expectation that they will go out and generate revenue, like any other job. If said good guy cop went fishing instead of victimizing innocent motorists and kidnapping hippies for possessing plants, he’d not be a cop for long, would he?
Of course not. In fact, we can safely make the assumption that the longer he’s been a cop, the more innocent people he has harmed. If he has moved up in the ranks at all, then we can safely assume he did it with a particular enthusiasm that warranted promotion. So by the time one reaches the esteemed title of “homicide detective” or “armed robbery investigator” we know that he has stolen hundreds of thousands of dollars from people who committed the heinous crime of “driving to work” and that each one of those thefts involved a death threat.
When a police officer turns on his flashers, he’s not making a polite request to have a chat with you. He’s informing you that your car is about to stop, whether it’s because you pull the car over, or because he runs it off the road and shoots you in the face. This is not a negotiation, and if you think it is, then by all means, the next time one of these “good guy cops” catches you speeding, just wave to him and keep on driving. Make sure your camera is running at the time, and if you survive the encounter, be sure to submit the video to CopBlock.org (http://copblock.org) after.

[kcchiefs6465]

84% have witnessed use of unnecessary force.

The other 16% are the ones doing it.

No Good Cops.

Do Not Call Cops.
Also realize that these surveys have an inherent bias.

Only the few will answer honestly no matter how confidential the survey is said to be.

[helmuth_hubener]

Do you feel the need to derail this thread? You are right, of course, and I apologize. I was being somewhat mean. I was simply trying to engage someone in a fruitful debate or discussion. Now I know he has no interest in debate, only sniping. He wants to call me a worshipper of communism. Fine. He doesn't want to discuss it. Fine. He doesn't want to take it back. Fine.

People are how they are, and I'm not going to change them. But it's good to know. Respect level decreased one tiny notch -- still high, but decreased. And I will carry on my way, going about my communist-worshiping business.

[Anti Federalist]

You are right, of course, and I apologize. I was being somewhat mean. I was simply trying to engage someone in a fruitful debate or discussion. Now I know he has no interest in debate, only sniping. He wants to call me a worshipper of communism. Fine. He doesn't want to discuss it. Fine. He doesn't want to take it back. Fine.

People are how they are, and I'm not going to change them. But it's good to know. Respect level decreased one tiny notch -- still high, but decreased. And I will carry on my way, going about my communist-worshiping business.

I understand.

You have to understand two things:

First, I'm working right now, and not at liberty to engage in a lengthy debate over trade policy, to state my position that I have made clear already, at least 100 times on here.

Second, I stand by what I said.

The modern, industrialized, China that we see today was created in no small part by Chairman Mao's "Great Leap Forward".

A government action, undertaken by a communist government and one of the wolrd's most well known communist leaders, that resulted in the death of 50 million people.

That Nixon and Kissinger opened the doors of America to China, right after that happened, and also broke the Bretton Woods monetary accords at the same time, is matter of historical fact. "Favored Nation" trading status soon followed. Runaway inflation of the 1970's and the decline of the middle class and middle class jobs was right behind it.

I am sorry that you have lost respect for me, because I do not think these things should be celebrated and rewarded, but it will just have to be what it is.

We disagree on this.

So, yes, you can call me a hypocrite if you like, I admit it.

I think the fedgov, if it is to exist, should be funded by tariffs and you asked in the other thread, at what rate.

If I had my way, I'd do four things:

Slap a 30% import duty on everything.

Eliminate personal income tax.

Eliminate corporate income tax.

Abolish or greatly minimize the regulatory and tort burdens on the marketplace.

Do those four things and you would see an economic and jobs recovery the likes of which the world had never seen before.

[helmuth_hubener]

I understand. Thanks.


You have to understand two things: I will try.


First, I'm working right now, and not at liberty to engage in a lengthy debate over trade policy, to state my position that I have made clear already, at least 100 times on here. Fair enough. A simple "I take it back. You are not a worshiper of communism, Helmuth" would have sufficed, for my part.


Second, I stand by what I said. What you said was this:


Still shouting hosannas to Communism, with Chinese aspects, here, I see.

Carry on.
Now I don't want to be tedious, nor to be whiny. I really don't mind you saying this. I think it was great that you wrote this. It stirred things up a little! But, I actually do not shout hosannas to Communism. I don't. I dislike Communism. Actually, I passionately hate Communism. So, just for accuracy's sake, I think it's worthwhile to point that out. If you are "standing by" your claim that I shout hosannas to communism, you are standing by an inaccurate claim. More power to you, if that's what you want to do! Just sayin'.



The modern, industrialized, China that we see today was created in no small part by Chairman Mao's "Great Leap Forward". I disagree. It was a disgusting leap backward. And regardless, I do not shout hosannas to it.



I am sorry that you have lost respect for me, because I do not think these things should be celebrated and rewarded, but it will just have to be what it is.
I made it clear in my subsequent post exactly what I would like to celebrate. To wit:

I do want to celebrate buying and producing plenteous, inexpensive, wonderful, innovative, durable, consistent, mass-produced goods from all the wonderful, brilliant businessmen who have flown beyond the clutches of their despotic tyrants back home and set up operations in the far more open and free Special Economic Zones of China. Their bold and courageous actions -- packing up and moving entire factories -- have made it possible for industrialism to continue. The ability to mass-produce goods for billions of people has been preserved. That's a hard-fought ability, and a precious one. It's the pinnacle of achievement of hundreds of years of economic progress. Because of these men's brave flight to freer climes, that achievement remains intact. Our Western standard of living has been maintained. And in the East, billions are rising out of poverty and into affluence as we speak. Poverty is in fact being eradicated from the face of this Earth. And it's all because the productive people of the world were not content to sit quietly and watch their businesses be strangled into oblivion by the taxes and regulations of the US, Germany, Britain, France, etc. They packed their bags, and they moved where they were welcome. Where they could breathe again. Where they could produce. They moved to the SEZs.

That's what I want to celebrate. Not Mao. Not Communism. Not famine.

My only loss of respect (and it is minor) comes because:
1. You accused and are still accusing me of supporting Communism in a back-handed, weasley way, refusing to be a man and be direct about it when I called you on it, and
2. because it seems to be irrelevant to you that I do not, in fact, support Communism. You refuse to take back your statement.


We disagree on this. Disagreement I can respect.


If I had my way, I'd do four things:

Slap a 30% import duty on everything.

Eliminate personal income tax.

Eliminate corporate income tax.

Abolish or greatly minimize the regulatory and tort burdens on the marketplace.

Do those four things and you would see an economic and jobs recovery the likes of which the world had never seen before. I agree. This would be a vast improvement on our situation.

It is not likely that a 30% tariff would bring in a huge amount of revenue, akin to the income tax. There's a Phillips Curve. 30% is not a revenue tariff, it is a punitive, protectionist tariff. With a rate that high, it becomes profitable and feasible to do large-scale smuggling. If you have any intention of enforcing it, you would need an extremely draconian enforcement system -- thousands upon thousands of law enforcement officers, with broad powers and lots of deadly gear. Even then, the enforcement would be imperfect, of course. Smuggling would become huge. The vast majority of trade would be done via smuggling, just as it is in other places with very high tariffs (like Brazil). As Americans, we have a heritage of smuggling, it's what this country was founded upon, and so we'd take to it like fish to water.

Something like a 10 or 15% rate is more likely the revenue-maximum rate. But that wouldn't accomplish your more important goal of stopping the flow of trade.

[Christian Liberty]

84% have witnessed use of unnecessary force.

The other 16% are the ones doing it.

No Good Cops.

Do Not Call Cops.

"good cops" is a term that's supposed to mean more than it really does. If it just means one that does not go beyond what the law requires, there probably are a few of those. But I don't think that makes them "good cops" so much as perhaps well meaning people who happen to have a bad job.

[Christian Liberty]

I understand.

You have to understand two things:

First, I'm working right now, and not at liberty to engage in a lengthy debate over trade policy, to state my position that I have made clear already, at least 100 times on here.

Second, I stand by what I said.

The modern, industrialized, China that we see today was created in no small part by Chairman Mao's "Great Leap Forward".

A government action, undertaken by a communist government and one of the wolrd's most well known communist leaders, that resulted in the death of 50 million people.

That Nixon and Kissinger opened the doors of America to China, right after that happened, and also broke the Bretton Woods monetary accords at the same time, is matter of historical fact. "Favored Nation" trading status soon followed. Runaway inflation of the 1970's and the decline of the middle class and middle class jobs was right behind it.

I am sorry that you have lost respect for me, because I do not think these things should be celebrated and rewarded, but it will just have to be what it is.

We disagree on this.

So, yes, you can call me a hypocrite if you like, I admit it.

I think the fedgov, if it is to exist, should be funded by tariffs and you asked in the other thread, at what rate.

If I had my way, I'd do four things:

Slap a 30% import duty on everything.

Eliminate personal income tax.

Eliminate corporate income tax.

Abolish or greatly minimize the regulatory and tort burdens on the marketplace.

Do those four things and you would see an economic and jobs recovery the likes of which the world had never seen before.

Are you propsoing the 30% import duty as IDEAL (In other words, are you saying that tariffs are actually GOOD) or are you simply saying that they are a lesser evil than the alternative?

It seems to me that ANY kind of tax is a form of theft and should be opposed by freedom-lovers. Let any governments that exist be funded voluntarily. Why does the Federal Government own the national border?

[helmuth_hubener]

And again -- and I can't emphasize this enough, AF -- this is no big deal. No hard feelings. Look, you placed a full-age newspaper ad in northern New Hampshire for Ron Paul. You've never, to my knowledge, hired a lobbyist to increase tariffs. Actions mean a lot to me; more than words. Your actions have been good.

[Christian Liberty]

And again -- and I can't emphasize this enough, AF -- this is no big deal. No hard feelings. Look, you placed a full-age newspaper ad in northern New Hampshire for Ron Paul. You've never, to my knowledge, hired a lobbyist to increase tariffs. Actions mean a lot to me; more than words. Your actions have been good.
I just (respectfully) want to ask AF who's going to enforce the tariff law. Surely not cops...

[phill4paul]

Bump for relevance to another thread.

[Christian Liberty]

This is an awesome thread. The facts are hard to face here...

[presence]

Text conversion:


43% "Always following the rules is not compatible with getting the job done"
25% of police officers surveyed stated that they've witnessed fellow officers harrassing a citizen "most likely because of their race."
52% agreed with this statement: "It is not unusual for a police officer to turn a blind eye to improper conduct by other officers."
49% feel that the only way a criminal would receive any punishment was to punish the individual him/herself.
61% admitted that they do not always report serious criminal violations that involve the abuse of authority by fellow officers
79% are not satisfied with the way the justice system deals with teh individuals that they arrest.
67% surveyed reported that officers who report incidents of misconduct are likely to be given a "cold shoulder" by fellow officers
79% feel that repors in the news media have cause the public to distrust law enforcement.
84% surveyed have witnessed other officers use more force than necessary to make an arrest.
6.6% of police officers will have a complaint filed against them for misconduct in any given year.
0.19% of 10,000 complaints filed in Chicago from 2002 to 2004 resulted in meaningful disciplinary action; 40x less than the national average

[Mani]

I love this thread, and the graph is super important. Rep to the OP for posting it, I've seen it before, but it bears repeating.


Regarding the 30% import duty. I'm not a big fan of it. Living in a bordering city to a country with large import duties, there is an entire business model on profiting because of these duties.

China has 30% duty on some goods and much more on other goods. Hong Kong is almost completely duty free (minus Cigarettes and Alcohol, and 1-2 other things). HK has no sales tax nor import tax. So there's a large industry of buying in HK and selling to China. Hundreds of thousands of people daily commute back and forth with suitcases full of items from DIAPERS to BABY MILK POWDER, to BEAUTY PRODUCTS, to WATCHES, to DIAMONDS, to iPhones, ANYTHING you can imagine.

There are thousands of trucks from HK driving into China daily with goods of all kinds sneaking through borders (usually a certain logistics carriers have certain bribed border agents, who allows things to pass). Its an entire industry.

You even have flight attendants who make a large second income carrying goods back and forth, back and forth all week long. Everyone gets in on it.

The enforcement is usually somewhat lax, and goods flow normally. Then once every 4-6 months the hammer comes down, certain people get busted. Every truck is checked, and instead of taking a couple hours to cross the border it takes a full day. And then after a while it goes back to normal again.

The best thing to do if the U.S. were to do something like this is move to a bordering town in Canada or Mexico and setup a wholesale business and begin making a nice profit. The crafty logistics people will find a way to get the goods across the border and a huge black market will open up.

Not only that, but internet sellers from around the globe will be interested in shipping to the U.S. since they can buy 30% cheaper online outside the U.S. Either the mail will continue to flow and goods will go through without trouble making it idiotic to shop in USA, or the mail will become SLOW as molasses to pass through customs and make sure everyone pays their proper 30% duty on every single item. I've shipped to various countries and the ones with the high duty are always the ones that take forever. Sometimes 1 month or 2 months just sitting in customs because of the bureaucratic mess of a customs department. And these customs agents are no saints, they find their ways to take bribes and get fat and rich on those bribes or confiscating goods and keeping stuff for themselves. Some items the customs agents confiscate and end up selling online themselves and make their own second income, but selling it dirt cheap because to them it has no cost.

Then the price drops too low in the black market, and the product brand owners scream and shout at this terrible underground market is destroying their pricing, their brand is being eroded, their shops are empty, and everything is being destroyed! They use their lobbyists to force politicians to do something, and then comes the heavy hands and fines and penalties and enforcers arrive with boots and clubs and begin stings and traps and people caught in the middle are being beaten over a truck full of untaxed diapers. I could imagine Border patrol agents roaming looking for people with suitcases of untaxed goods, forcing people to open their trunks and show receipts of what they own or risk going to jail, getting fined, or losing their stuff. "Nice watch mundane! Show me your receipt! -"It was a gift from 3 years ago!" Bullshit! Show me your papers you fuck! You bought it across the border and didn't pay tax didn't you!? DIDN'T YOU!?! Get outta the car you fucking shits!"

With the crazy fucked up roided up cops we have roaming the streets, I'd hate to give these guys more reasons to find excuses to go after people.


Living in a duty free place, and being next door to a country with heavy duties, I would NOT want to be on the other side.

[DamianTV]

How can there exist such a thing as a Good Cop when the very Laws they have sworn to enforce are corrupt?

[phill4paul]

Bump for relevance to another thread.

[phill4paul]

Relevant bump.