The Holocaust AGAIN? Ugh

[Acala]

I must confess to being more than a little weary of hearing about the Holocaust. It's the only historical tragedy with its own perpetual PR machine. But what really annoys me is that the important lessons from that event are almost always missed by the mainstream. Yes, the Nazis were very bad people and yes there were many innocent victims of appalling acts of cruelty. But neither the Nazis not their victims were unique in any way. There is a Hitler on every block waiting for the opportunity to take power, and ANYONE could be the scapegoat for the hate machine. But that message never seems to come across.

So when I went to a job-related conference last week and saw one break-out session about the Holocaust, I groaned. But then I looked closer and saw that it mentioned "policing" and I became more interested. By way of background, this conference is for County and Municipal attorneys, including prosecutors, and civil attorneys (like me). So I decided to attend the session called "Lessons from the Holocaust: What you do matters". I was very glad I did.

The program was put together by Sheila Polk, the County Attorney of Yavapai County, Arizona, in consultation with the Holocaust Museum in D.C. Upon visiting the Museum, Ms. Polk noticed that during the rise of the Nazis, regular German police were drawn into the atrocities. She wondered how it was that the existing police force, which had previously been involved in protecting the public came to the point where they were loading the public onto boxcars for the death camps? When she asked the museum, they said nobody ever asked the question before and they commenced to do some research. The result was this program which analyzes the step by step process in which the people whose job was originally to protect the people from murder became murderers themselves.

I won't try to relate all of the information here. Suffice it to say that the program dissects the process whereby the police were perverted. The program is designed to alert prosecutors and law enforcement officers to the early signs that legitimate policing is becoming something sinister and to encourage resistance. It is a very well designed program. And it is now mandatory for new recruits in the Sheriff's department and the corrections department, and is being deployed in law enforcement agencies around the state.

I was very impressed and pleased and thought you should know about this.

[amy31416]

Wow. First time I've heard in a long time of holocaust history being used for good rather than just being a money-making scheme or an excuse for other atrocities. Thanks for posting.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

The answer is more great actors doing hilarious Hitler movies.






"Shut up you ugly bitch!"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs8GyKV3aEk

[kcchiefs6465]

The program is designed to alert prosecutors and law enforcement officers to the early signs that legitimate policing is becoming something sinister and to encourage resistance.

So...

Did it alert them?

[RJB]

Wow. First time I've heard in a long time of holocaust history being used for good rather than just being a money-making scheme or an excuse for other atrocities. Thanks for posting.

Everytime I hear:
"... and so to prevent another holocaust, we need to..." I realize that a lot of people are about to die in a war and the Military Industrial Complex is about to get billions in tax dollars.

[Acala]

So...

Did it alert them?

There were some serious concerns expressed at the session about what has already happened to traditional policing here. So some ARE alerted. Many are not.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Most of my extended family died in concentration camps and they weren't even jews

[Anti Federalist]

She wondered how it was that the existing police force, which had previously been involved in protecting the public came to the point where they were loading the public onto boxcars for the death camps? When she asked the museum, they said nobody ever asked the question before and they commenced to do some research. The result was this program which analyzes the step by step process in which the people whose job was originally to protect the people from murder became murderers themselves.

Just following orders.

It's us or them.

It's for the greater good.

I have a family to feed.

[donnay]

So what is the remedy? Once they are alerted, that is.

[amy31416]

Most of my extended family died in concentration camps and they weren't even jews

Anti-semite!

[PierzStyx]

I wish I could find the panel or paper online. All I've been able to find are news article about it.

[alucard13mm]

The holocaust isn't the only time in history where millions of a specific nationality/religion of people died.... *sigh*. Tens of millions of my chinese brethren starved or was executed during the communist revolution.

Hell, the oligarchies and population controllist probably welcome these types of events.

[CaptainAmerica]

I must confess to being more than a little weary of hearing about the Holocaust. It's the only historical tragedy with its own perpetual PR machine. But what really annoys me is that the important lessons from that event are almost always missed by the mainstream. Yes, the Nazis were very bad people and yes there were many innocent victims of appalling acts of cruelty. But neither the Nazis not their victims were unique in any way. There is a Hitler on every block waiting for the opportunity to take power, and ANYONE could be the scapegoat for the hate machine. But that message never seems to come across.

So when I went to a job-related conference last week and saw one break-out session about the Holocaust, I groaned. But then I looked closer and saw that it mentioned "policing" and I became more interested. By way of background, this conference is for County and Municipal attorneys, including prosecutors, and civil attorneys (like me). So I decided to attend the session called "Lessons from the Holocaust: What you do matters". I was very glad I did.

The program was put together by Sheila Polk, the County Attorney of Yavapai County, Arizona, in consultation with the Holocaust Museum in D.C. Upon visiting the Museum, Ms. Polk noticed that during the rise of the Nazis, regular German police were drawn into the atrocities. She wondered how it was that the existing police force, which had previously been involved in protecting the public came to the point where they were loading the public onto boxcars for the death camps? When she asked the museum, they said nobody ever asked the question before and they commenced to do some research. The result was this program which analyzes the step by step process in which the people whose job was originally to protect the people from murder became murderers themselves.

I won't try to relate all of the information here. Suffice it to say that the program dissects the process whereby the police were perverted. The program is designed to alert prosecutors and law enforcement officers to the early signs that legitimate policing is becoming something sinister and to encourage resistance. It is a very well designed program. And it is now mandatory for new recruits in the Sheriff's department and the corrections department, and is being deployed in law enforcement agencies around the state.

I was very impressed and pleased and thought you should know about this.
I heard about the holocaust museum being on display in Phoenix, AZ recently maybe this had connection to that. I think that Arizona is still a fairly safe place compared to any other state because of the amount of gun owners and people who seem to be untouched by big government and would recognize encroachment much quicker than per say NYC citizens....plus we stay fit 24/7 because our weather allows us to :D

[LibForestPaul]

The holocaust isn't the only time in history where millions of a specific nationality/religion of people died.... *sigh*. Tens of millions of my chinese brethren starved or was executed during the communist revolution.

Hell, the oligarchies and population controllist probably welcome these types of events.

indeed. wishing chinese, ukrainians, and others were in control of propaganda machine. Same Jewish stories getting tiresome.

[tod evans]

So what is the remedy? Once they are alerted, that is.

There is only one remedy and the folks Acala speaks of will absolutely not partake.

That being; immediately stop having anything to do with the current "Just-Us" system and publicly denounce the system and its supporters, expose the current system for what it is and encourage others in the same positions to do the same....

[Acala]

Just following orders.

It's us or them.

It's for the greater good.

I have a family to feed.

One of the interesting facts presented was that the cops who refused to participate in the roving death squads (about 20%) suffered NO consequences.

[Acala]

I wish I could find the panel or paper online. All I've been able to find are news article about it.

I looked for something to post with the OP but couldn't find anything either. Maybe I will write to Sheila Polk . . .

[acptulsa]

Good job Sheila Polk.

The Holocaust and the Great Depression are two things in history which get such a visceral reaction that fewer people go, 'Ugh, history!' and glaze their eyes over. We ought not go, 'Ugh, liberal talking point!' and glaze our eyes over. We have teachable lessons in these historical events too. We should teach them.

[FloralScent]

It's the only historical event I know of where the narrative has to be enforced with prison sentences. This is all need to know about it.

[acptulsa]

It's the only historical event I know of where the narrative has to be enforced with prison sentences. This is all need to know about it.

Of course, in attempting to derive useful lessons from an event like this one does run into two major obstacles--the jerks who attempt to keep logic out of it because they have an axe to grind on one side of the issue and the jerks who attempt to keep logic out of it because they have an axe to grind on the other side of it.

[FloralScent]

Of course, in attempting to derive useful lessons from an event like this one does run into two major obstacles--the jerks who attempt to keep logic out of it because they have an axe to grind on one side of the issue and the jerks who attempt to keep logic out of it because they have an axe to grind on the other side of it.

If you want to use 'facts' that have to be enforced at gunpoint to derive your lessons go right ahead. I think a more useful lesson can be derived from the imprisoning of 'deniers'.

[amy31416]

It's the only historical event I know of where the narrative has to be enforced with prison sentences. This is all need to know about it.


If you want to use 'facts' that have to be enforced at gunpoint to derive your lessons go right ahead. I think a more useful lesson can be derived from the imprisoning of 'deniers'.

Very, very well said FS. Never really thought about it that way.

[Anti Federalist]

One of the interesting facts presented was that the cops who refused to participate in the roving death squads (about 20%) suffered NO consequences.

So, just like the people of Germany, the vast majority were aware of it and supported it.

[tod evans]

So, just like the people of Germany, the vast majority were aware of it and supported it.

Inaction is the same as supporting, especially for those vested by "The Court".....

[Acala]

So, just like the people of Germany, the vast majority were aware of it and supported it.

The stats they reported for the death squads were that 20% refused, 20% took an active role in the actual killing, and 60% went along with it in a peripheral role.

One of the points of the course is to encourage people to NOT go along by weakening the idea that there will be adverse consequences.

[Acala]

Inaction is the same as supporting, especially for those vested by "The Court".....

The course didn't deal directly with the role of the judiciary, but brief mention was made that the courts largely went along with the program. That would be a good follow-up course.

[tod evans]

The course didn't deal directly with the role of the judiciary, but brief mention was made that the courts largely went along with the program. That would be a good follow-up course.

I'll be impressed if there's an attorney brave enough to breach the subject.....

In these parts the "ol-boy" network is so thick it's not funny...

[Acala]

I'll be impressed if there's an attorney brave enough to breach the subject.....



There are some. Like this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Yagman

But not many, I will agree, most of them being primarily concerned with their own bottom line.

[Brian4Liberty]

Suffice it to say that the program dissects the process whereby the police were perverted. The program is designed to alert prosecutors and law enforcement officers to the early signs that legitimate policing is becoming something sinister and to encourage resistance. It is a very well designed program. And it is now mandatory for new recruits in the Sheriff's department and the corrections department, and is being deployed in law enforcement agencies around the state.

I was very impressed and pleased and thought you should know about this.

Sounds encouraging on the surface. Let's hope that some petty tyrants don't start to use this as a "how-to" lesson.

[James Madison]

Most of my extended family died in concentration camps and they weren't even jews

But they also weren't God's 'Chosen People'.

[Elias Graves]

I used t think maybe I was a libertarian. If this is the accepted attitudes toward the holocaust, I'm out. Goodbye.

[dannno]

I used t think maybe I was a libertarian. If this is the accepted attitudes toward the holocaust, I'm out. Goodbye.

Can you elaborate what your concerns are exactly?

Why does it surprise you that libertarians would be more concerned about combating the statist tyranny that led to the Holocaust than turning it into being all about Jewish people and how they were treated horribly as a group by some bad people?

It seems to me that libertarians have it right. Why merely try and prevent another Holocaust against Jewish people when you can instead prevent mass murder by governments against ANY group INCLUDING Jewish people?

[dannno]

The Holocaust AGAIN? Ugh

The funny thing is the only person I've actually heard say this kind of phrase was not only Jewish, but ran the off-campus Jewish center at the University I went to and was in charge of setting up the Holocaust memorial there each year. By the time Senior year rolled around, he was going on about how it was really important to remember and all, but he thought they just went way too far overboard and how reminding people about it constantly was just really depressing. "It's just too much!" I remember him saying.

[Acala]

I used t think maybe I was a libertarian. If this is the accepted attitudes toward the holocaust, I'm out. Goodbye.

Hopefully you read my whole post and not just the title?

[Philhelm]

I used t think maybe I was a libertarian. If this is the accepted attitudes toward the holocaust, I'm out. Goodbye.

Reminds me of the time I tried to rent Schindler's List from Blockbuster. I looked in the comedy section for about ten minutes before needing to ask for help.

[FloralScent]

Hopefully you read my whole post and not just the title?

Guilty, at least in not reading it closely enough. I just see "holocaust" and tune out because it's been used as an excuse for numerous abuses of power since the war, and as justification for many horrific Allied atrocities during. However, after stepping back and taking a breath I see it does seem they may actually be trying to use it for good this time. I won't get my hopes up though.

[eduardo89]

Reminds me of the time I tried to rent Schindler's List from Blockbuster. I looked in the comedy section for about ten minutes before needing to ask for help.

I think Schindler's List is a fantastic film. And I didn't watch it at the cinema actually. I got it out on video, about a year later - by mistake - 'cause I'd never heard of it and I was in Blockbuster sort of late one night. I was a bit drunk, and I thought it was a porn film. No, 'cause I saw 18 certificate, top shelf. I thought, oh, black and white - dodgy home movie, German sounding - they're the best, and what swung it was that quote on the back from Barry Norman: "Have a box of Kleenex ready". Rubbish, I used about two. There was a shower scene.

[Philhelm]

I thought it was a porn movie. German sounding name, shower scenes, and the DVD cover said 'you'll need a full box of tissues.'

Not to mention those three kids that were apparently into water sports.

[jllundqu]

I must confess to being more than a little weary of hearing about the Holocaust. It's the only historical tragedy with its own perpetual PR machine. But what really annoys me is that the important lessons from that event are almost always missed by the mainstream. Yes, the Nazis were very bad people and yes there were many innocent victims of appalling acts of cruelty. But neither the Nazis not their victims were unique in any way. There is a Hitler on every block waiting for the opportunity to take power, and ANYONE could be the scapegoat for the hate machine. But that message never seems to come across.

So when I went to a job-related conference last week and saw one break-out session about the Holocaust, I groaned. But then I looked closer and saw that it mentioned "policing" and I became more interested. By way of background, this conference is for County and Municipal attorneys, including prosecutors, and civil attorneys (like me). So I decided to attend the session called "Lessons from the Holocaust: What you do matters". I was very glad I did.

The program was put together by Sheila Polk, the County Attorney of Yavapai County, Arizona, in consultation with the Holocaust Museum in D.C. Upon visiting the Museum, Ms. Polk noticed that during the rise of the Nazis, regular German police were drawn into the atrocities. She wondered how it was that the existing police force, which had previously been involved in protecting the public came to the point where they were loading the public onto boxcars for the death camps? When she asked the museum, they said nobody ever asked the question before and they commenced to do some research. The result was this program which analyzes the step by step process in which the people whose job was originally to protect the people from murder became murderers themselves.

I won't try to relate all of the information here. Suffice it to say that the program dissects the process whereby the police were perverted. The program is designed to alert prosecutors and law enforcement officers to the early signs that legitimate policing is becoming something sinister and to encourage resistance. It is a very well designed program. And it is now mandatory for new recruits in the Sheriff's department and the corrections department, and is being deployed in law enforcement agencies around the state.

I was very impressed and pleased and thought you should know about this.

Thanks for the post. Yeah the old "foot in the door" effect. Many experiments have been done to simulate the conditioned response that got your average joe (including Nazi police) to go from normal to monster without missing a beat. Mostly it seems to deal with compartmentalization of tasks. First youre the guy who identifies the 'bad guys' and someone else picks them up and transports them. Next you 'promote' to the guy doing the transporting. Then you 'promote' to the guy jailing the doomed ones, then your the guy outside the door of the gas chamber, then the guy actually pulling the lever that kills.... gradually working your way to more and more cruelty and depravity.

Sad what humans will do when conditioned a certain way.

[Acala]

Thanks for the post. Yeah the old "foot in the door" effect. Many experiments have been done to simulate the conditioned response that got your average joe (including Nazi police) to go from normal to monster without missing a beat. Mostly it seems to deal with compartmentalization of tasks. First youre the guy who identifies the 'bad guys' and someone else picks them up and transports them. Next you 'promote' to the guy doing the transporting. Then you 'promote' to the guy jailing the doomed ones, then your the guy outside the door of the gas chamber, then the guy actually pulling the lever that kills.... gradually working your way to more and more cruelty and depravity.

Sad what humans will do when conditioned a certain way.

And that there are those among us who seem to know almost instinctively just how to go about doing that conditioning.

[Occam's Banana]

One of the interesting facts presented was that the cops who refused to participate in the roving death squads (about 20%) suffered NO consequences.

I've heard the same sort of thing about there not being much if any in the way of negative consequences for those who refused to participate. I suspect this to be correct, and I attribute it to the fact that "the system" did not want to risk any "backlash" from persecuting those who merely did not wish to participate but who did not actively object to, oppose or otherwise work to hinder "the system's" authority or actions.

If they had punished those cops who didn't want to help (but who otherwise did nothing "objectionable"), they might well have alienated other cops who had no problems with what they were doing but who did not want to see their "brothers" persecuted for such a reason. IOW: There was some risk (and nothing to be gained) for "the system" to go after passive non-participants.


One of the points of the course is to encourage people to NOT go along by weakening the idea that there will be adverse consequences.

That's not a bad thing - but by itself it won't be enough to accomplish anything beyond self-preservation (at best). The inaction of those who did nothing apart from declining to participate is just one more proof of the truth famously expressed by Edmund Burke: "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

As shown in the case of Nazi Germany, passive non-participation is not sufficient.
Active non-compliance. Denunciation. Disobedience. Resistance. These are what is required.

[Carson]

I've been hearing stories lately like this thread and craved a little perspective on casualties. Maybe some of you have also.


This Wiki article has some if I could take it all in.

World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history. Over 60 million people were killed, which was over 2.5% of the world population. The tables below give a detailed country-by-country count of human losses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

[RonPaulFanInGA]

I must confess to being more than a little weary of hearing about the Holocaust. It's the only historical tragedy with its own perpetual PR machine.

Partially because of deniers, many of who say, somehow with a straight face, that despite all the photographs, first-hand accounts from both soldiers and victims and documentation, the whole thing was a myth, or hyperbole.

What other historical tragedy, especially one in the age of photography, can you say that of? "Oh, the Titanic sinking was a myth, and only designed to increase U.S. goodwill towards Britain, and eventually get us involved on their side during WWI."

[Anti-Neocon]

Partially because of deniers, many of who say, somehow with a straight face, that despite all the photographs, first-hand accounts from both soldiers and victims and documentation, the whole thing was a myth, or hyperbole.

What other historical tragedy, especially one in the age of photography, can you say that of? "Oh, the Titanic sinking was a myth, and only designed to increase U.S. goodwill towards Britain, and eventually get us involved on their side during WWI."
The vast majority of the so-called "deniers" don't dispute the authenticity of the photographs nor the existence of concentration camps. And if you put all the personal accounts together, you get a much different story than your mainstream narrative.

[Anti Federalist]

As shown in the case of Nazi Germany, passive non-participation is not sufficient.

Active non-compliance. Denunciation. Disobedience. Resistance. These are what is required.

http://forum.unity3d.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84691&d=1391097561

[Acala]

That's not a bad thing - but by itself it won't be enough to accomplish anything beyond self-preservation (at best). The inaction of those who did nothing apart from declining to participate is just one more proof of the truth famously expressed by Edmund Burke: "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

As shown in the case of Nazi Germany, passive non-participation is not sufficient.
Active non-compliance. Denunciation. Disobedience. Resistance. These are what is required.

Agreed. But with active resistance to lead them, many who would just be passive will join the right side.

[Acala]

Partially because of deniers, many of who say, somehow with a straight face, that despite all the photographs, first-hand accounts from both soldiers and victims and documentation, the whole thing was a myth, or hyperbole.

What other historical tragedy, especially one in the age of photography, can you say that of? "Oh, the Titanic sinking was a myth, and only designed to increase U.S. goodwill towards Britain, and eventually get us involved on their side during WWI."

Perhaps. But I can't help but notice that there is no museum in D.C. for the millions of innocent people that our ally Stalin murdered. Nor is there a Remembrance Day for the millions killed in the cultural revolution in China. And on and on. I think it is appropriate and useful to remember EVERY instance of authoritarian government run amok and murdering millions of people. And even more importantly, to figure out and always keep in mind HOW authoritarian government took hold. And that is nearly always lacking from Holocaust remembrance.

[otherone]

One of the interesting facts presented was that the cops who refused to participate in the roving death squads (about 20%) suffered NO consequences.

...and here we have it.
Those who participated CHOSE to. It's a brilliant strategem that eliminates those who may be internally torn.
Happily, it could NEVER happen here....

http://www.anexcellentspirit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/barack-obama-crowd-cc-e1352942279365.jpg

[Thor]

I used t think maybe I was a libertarian. If this is the accepted attitudes toward the holocaust, I'm out. Goodbye.

I am not sure if this post is for real or not. But if it is, this is one of the silliest posts I have ever seen.



"Forget freedom, liberty, individual responsibility and all those "libertarian leaning" beliefs that I thought I had. If you are tired of hearing about the Holocaust, then I must not be one of you as I love to be reminded of this issue, constantly. It is who I am. I am going to be a Democrat/Republican that pays homage to this personal issue of mine; regardless of their stance on freedom, liberty and personal responsibility."


"Forget freedom, liberty, individual responsibility and all those "libertarian leaning" beliefs that I thought I had. If you are tired of hearing about Affirmative Action, then I must not be one of you as I love to be reminded of this issue, constantly. It is who I am. I am going to be a Democrat/Republican that pays homage to this personal issue of mine; regardless of their stance on freedom, liberty and personal responsibility."


"Forget freedom, liberty, individual responsibility and all those "libertarian leaning" beliefs that I thought I had. If you are tired of hearing about Susan G. Komen, then I must not be one of you as I love to be reminded of this issue, constantly. It is who I am. I am going to be a Democrat/Republican that pays homage to this personal issue of mine; regardless of their stance on freedom, liberty and personal responsibility."


"Forget freedom, liberty, individual responsibility and all those "libertarian leaning" beliefs that I thought I had. If you are tired of hearing about Climate Change, then I must not be one of you as I love to be reminded of this issue, constantly. It is who I am. I am going to be a Democrat/Republican that pays homage to this personal issue of mine; regardless of their stance on freedom, liberty and personal responsibility."


"Forget freedom, liberty, individual responsibility and all those "libertarian leaning" beliefs that I thought I had. If you are tired of hearing about (insert personal issue here), then I must not be one of you as I love to be reminded of this issue, constantly. It is who I am. I am going to be a Democrat/Republican that pays homage to this personal issue of mine; regardless of their stance on freedom, liberty and personal responsibility."


"You don't feel the same way as I do about my personal issue, so I am out." LOL


The Holocaust was horrible. No question about it. But Dannno had it right:



Why does it surprise you that libertarians would be more concerned about combating the statist tyranny that led to the Holocaust than turning it into being all about Jewish people and how they were treated horribly as a group by some bad people?

It seems to me that libertarians have it right. Why merely try and prevent another Holocaust against Jewish people when you can instead prevent mass murder by governments against ANY group INCLUDING Jewish people?

Why just morn and commemorate the horrible tragedy that happened, instead of learning from what happened and doing things to prevent something else like that from happening again?

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

The vast majority of the so-called "deniers" don't dispute the authenticity of the photographs nor the existence of concentration camps. And if you put all the personal accounts together, you get a much different story than your mainstream narrative.


Epidemic typhus is thus found most frequently during times of war and deprivation. For example, typhus killed hundreds of thousands of prisoners in Nazi concentration camps during World War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemic_typhus

I listened to some of the holocaust conspiracy theory stuff, they say cremation facilities were created for all the people dying from Typhus. And since it came from hair lice, that's why they (Yes inmates, not Jews, because not only Jews were sent to concentration camps) shaved the hair off of inmates and told them to take their clothes off. (Which makes complete sense to me and has official sources out there, not cooky poorly-crafted websites. So if the germans were worried about Typhus, why would they use human hair to make things out of? Unless they fumigated the hair first, which others saying Zyklon-B was used for.) Some theories suggest the Germans wouldn't waste the resources on killing and cremating so many people, especially when fuel was such a scarce resource for them in WW2. Even the official Auschwitz documentary admit this, saying It doesn't make any sense for the Germans to be using all those resources. Dunno what to make of it. Even if the holocaust kill count was exaggerated doesn't really change the fact the Germans were just shoving tons of people into work camps with conditions so bad they were dying.

I also watched a few more holocaust documentaries, not conspiracy theory online ones, and I can't help but notice many of these "survivors" Don't shed a tear when describing the "death camps." If that happened to me, I'd be bawling my eyes out describing all the gruesome details, however they just describe the details as if they are a teacher in a classroom telling kids what happened.


Can you elaborate what your concerns are exactly?

Why does it surprise you that libertarians would be more concerned about combating the statist tyranny that led to the Holocaust than turning it into being all about Jewish people and how they were treated horribly as a group by some bad people?

It seems to me that libertarians have it right. Why merely try and prevent another Holocaust against Jewish people when you can instead prevent mass murder by governments against ANY group INCLUDING Jewish people?

Because not accepting Jews as the master race is like killing Jesus.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Lot's of good posts in this thread, but this one is the winner in IMHO...
Thanks for the post. Yeah the old "foot in the door" effect. Many experiments have been done to simulate the conditioned response that got your average joe (including Nazi police) to go from normal to monster without missing a beat. Mostly it seems to deal with compartmentalization of tasks. First youre the guy who identifies the 'bad guys' and someone else picks them up and transports them. Next you 'promote' to the guy doing the transporting. Then you 'promote' to the guy jailing the doomed ones, then your the guy outside the door of the gas chamber, then the guy actually pulling the lever that kills.... gradually working your way to more and more cruelty and depravity.

Sad what humans will do when conditioned a certain way.

I'll twist this a bit to bring up a bit about how government has designed it's operations today... To get around any one government worker (except those vetted through years of initiation of criminal activities and/or being blackmailed) is to compartmentalize it all. Keep everyone knowing only enough (need to know) to perform that/their specific task. Keep workers who are doing the job authorized by the radicalized/hijacked/designed criminal state, from understanding what they are truly doing, indoctrinating into their heads what to believe, what to think. There's great examples out there, but Snowden's access to all the data gave him the information he needed to put all the pieces together and revelatory all operations. Snowden was very privileged, because he got to see so much from different perspectives, from the DOD, CIA and NSA. IT HAS ALWAYS been those that have a large picture understand and speak out... those that don't, are just the sycophants, psychopaths and/or drones, of those organizations.

Everyone has seen the incremental increases in complete state control, tyranny, and they reciprocate by rewarding those which enable, maintain, enforce, and honor it. That's why you see all these jobs/positions where the state's employees are rewarded with so much more in lucrative; contracts, pay, benefits, retirement, AND privileges.

There's also the other aspect indoctrinated by the state; the brainwashing... the CIA/NSA/etc using high schools and colleges as their prime recruitment centers. The motto is, "get'em while their young..." even look at the discriminatory hiring policies of enforcement today, like the FBI... You cannot be over the age of 32 as a new hire or how about the FAA on being over the age of 55 as an Air Traffic controller. The state has always been the biggest violator of rights, liberties, and discrimination of society in general.

Just think about that recent Bundy ranch exchange between talk show host Pete Santelli and the BLM militaristic soldier, the government drone leader just kept repeating the same brainwashed-memorized government response of, imprisonment and "authorized use of deadly force".

Okay back to the thread...

World War II estimated deaths:

27 million Russian
20 million Chinese
8 million Germans
5 million Polish
4 Million Indonesians
3 million Japanese
2 million East Indians
1 million Yugoslavians
1 million Indochinese

on and on...