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Origanalist
05-05-2014, 09:24 PM
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/cm/cosmopolitan/images/u7/cos-01-heather-xl.jpg

When Emily Letts got pregnant, she knew she would get an abortion. Then she decided to film it. Letts, 25, is an abortion counselor at Cherry Hill Women’s Center in New Jersey, which is where she had her abortion. The non-graphic video focuses on her face and shows her breathing and humming through the procedure. The doctor on the other side of the sheet is out of view. When she entered the Abortion Care Network’s Stigma Busting video competition and won, the video went viral. Here, she explains why she decided to share her experience so publicly.

Becoming an abortion counselor was kind of unexpected. I was a professional actress for many years. I loved acting, but I felt fairly depressed most of the time. I disliked my body. I felt competitive toward women. I felt completely alienated from myself and everyone else because I was intent on being successful.

I had a friend who was a birth doula, and she fascinated me with her stories about giving birth and growing life. It led me to start looking at my body in a whole different way. I became what’s called a “birth junkie.” I trained as a doula and watched every documentary I could get my hands on. During my training, I learned there are three kinds of doulas: birth doulas, adoption doulas, and abortion doulas. A light went off in my head.

I had never been political about abortion rights before, but the idea of helping women through an abortion and supporting them and reassuring them that they are still wonderful and beautiful resonated deeply with me. I had spent so long in the trappings of competition with other women and putting too much pressure on myself that I just wanted to help women. I reached out to Cherry Hill right after I finished my training. I asked to volunteer, but instead they asked me to come in for a job interview. I was hired on the spot to be one of the clinic’s abortion counselors. I fell into this perfect world that fulfills me in so many different ways.

I found out I was pregnant in November. I had been working at the clinic for about a year. It was my first pregnancy, and, full disclosure, I hadn't been using any kind of birth control, which is crazy, I know. I’m a sex educator, and I love talking about birth control. Before this experience, hormonal birth control scared me because of complications I’d heard about from friends — gaining weight, depression, etc. So I tracked my ovulation cycle, and I didn’t have any long-term partners. I thought I was OK. But, you know, things happen. I wound up pregnant.

continued....http://www.cosmopolitan.com/advice/health/why-i-filmed-my-abortion

eduardo89
05-05-2014, 09:25 PM
Disgusting.

fr33
05-05-2014, 09:26 PM
The non-graphic video focuses on her face and shows her breathing and humming through the procedure. The doctor on the other side of the sheet is out of view.So she didn't really film her abortion.

Feeding the Abscess
05-05-2014, 09:28 PM
'I felt competitive against women'

And that's bad... why?

James Madison
05-05-2014, 09:28 PM
So she didn't really film her abortion.

Don't worry, the sequel will be out next summer.

Feeding the Abscess
05-05-2014, 09:29 PM
Don't worry, the sequel will be out next summer.

Ironically titled, 'How I Met Your Mother'

Danke
05-05-2014, 09:39 PM
No words...but she is kinda cute, in a nihilistic way.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2nQtbUuKY4

amy31416
05-05-2014, 09:42 PM
'I felt competitive against women'

And that's bad... why?

It's not always bad, but when you're talking a superficial woman like this...meow. It's not friendly sport by any stretch of the imagination.

And then there's the really insecure type who tries to befriend you, takes up all your interests and then tries to compete with you in them, essentially trying to absorb your identity because they're incapable of forming their own.

There's a whole different world with women that many men aren't aware of.

pcosmar
05-05-2014, 09:47 PM
There's a whole different world with women that many men aren't aware of.
And it honestly scares some of us that are. ;)

Danke
05-05-2014, 09:47 PM
There's a whole different world with women that many men aren't aware of.

Awareness and understanding are two different things.

PierzStyx
05-05-2014, 09:50 PM
Humans have a natural right to life. Any person who thinks they know how another life will turn out, so well they can just destroy it on a whim, are playing God, because only an omniscient being could know that and only an omnipotent one could be justified in doing it. Its disgusting. Talk about a violation of humanity. More women are violated, have their rights taken, and have their personhood destroyed by elective abortion than in any way else, in any other manner. I mourn for all the women who have ended up in trash heaps, discarded as trash because of people like her. What a sick bitch.

amy31416
05-05-2014, 09:53 PM
And it honestly scares some of us that are. ;)

I just find it obnoxious, but I can see why it'd scare the menfolk.


Awareness and understanding are two different things.

Good point, though I don't understand it either.

Danke
05-05-2014, 09:55 PM
//

HVACTech
05-05-2014, 09:59 PM
It's not always bad, but when you're talking a superficial woman like this...meow. It's not friendly sport by any stretch of the imagination.

And then there's the really insecure type who tries to befriend you, takes up all your interests and then tries to compete with you in them, essentially trying to absorb your identity because they're incapable of forming their own.

There's a whole different world with women that many men aren't aware of.

there is much wisdom in your words.

take heed all that read them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_P-v1BVQn8

fr33
05-05-2014, 10:04 PM
Don't worry, the sequel will be out next summer.

I would welcome it. The only people who would consider such a video as progress are psychopaths. Most supporters of abortion "rights" couldn't stomach it.

milgram
05-05-2014, 10:11 PM
Could #AbortionSelfie be a new trend in millennial narcissism?

James Madison
05-05-2014, 10:35 PM
I would welcome it. The only people who would consider such a video as progress are psychopaths. Most supporters of abortion "rights" couldn't stomach it.

But that's what would make it so fascinating to watch. Imagine the mental gymnastics...

mosquitobite
05-05-2014, 10:41 PM
I would welcome it. The only people who would consider such a video as progress are psychopaths. Most supporters of abortion "rights" couldn't stomach it.

Yes, that is a common caveat. "I support abortion, but not used as birth control."

For Pete's sake this woman COUNSELED people on birth control and still thought "it won't happen to me". Her excuses are pathetic too, because a real feminist would have demanded the man wear a condom.

She was an actress. When that line of work didn't succeed, she found a way to turn her new job into a way to garner attention. Color me SHOCKED!

Brett85
05-05-2014, 11:05 PM
I guess you're a sexist or a "woman hater" if you dare to criticize this woman for doing this. After all, she's just a brave, strong woman for being willing to kill her baby and be proud of it. That's probably what our society thinks.

kahless
05-05-2014, 11:21 PM
I think this is an appropriate use of the C word in referring to her.

Petar
05-05-2014, 11:21 PM
Check out the motherly face that this bitch is trying to make...

The Rebel Poet
05-05-2014, 11:54 PM
Could #AbortionSelfie be a new trend in millennial narcissism?
Sadly, yes.

Bman
05-06-2014, 12:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6knrJJ4Kfc

kahless
05-06-2014, 12:35 AM
...

I only saw bits and pieces of his routine in the past and liked the guy. Thanks for enlightening me on what a complete ghoul he is on this issue.

I just finished watching a few of his routines on this and he is just as bad if not worse than this cunt. F Doug Stan Hope, no longer a fan.

Bman
05-06-2014, 01:05 AM
I only saw bits and pieces of his routine in the past and liked the guy. Thanks for enlightening me on what a complete ghoul he is on this issue.

I just finished watching a few of his routines on this and he is just as bad if not worse than this cunt. F Doug Stan Hope, no longer a fan.

Meh, I think the bit is a hoot.

BamaAla
05-06-2014, 01:07 AM
Welcome to the 21st century folks! It wouldn't surprise me if we learned down the road that she got herself pregnant for the express purpose of making this fine piece of cinematic excellence.

osan
05-06-2014, 03:04 AM
When Emily Letts got herself pregnant...

Let the author at least be semantically precise. I feel pretty confident this was the result neither of rape nor immaculate conception.


...I was... I loved... I felt... I disliked... I felt... I felt... I was...

"But I'm not self-absorbed."


...friend... birth doula... birth and growing life... became... a “birth junkie... trained as a doula... learned there are three kinds of doulas”

So far, so good. But then, suddenly...


A light went off in my head.

Must've been UV.


...the idea of helping women through an abortion... I fell into this perfect world that fulfills me in so many different ways.

<SCREEEEEEEECH>...

Buh-WHA? OK, someone please help me with this. I consider myself of nominal intelligence, but this is evading me. How does one go from becoming a "birth doula" (a "doula", BTW, comes from the Greek for "female slave". Thought some of you anti-abortion folks would get a kick out of that) to helping women with abortions?

Another question that arises is that if abortions are OK (I'm not making a value judgment here, only raising an obvious question), then why do women have to be counseled so that they feel "beautiful" in the aftermath? Perhaps there is a fundamental and undiminishable (incurable) reason they feel "dirty" or "unbeautiful" afterward? Perhaps the counseling is precisely the very worst thing to do "for" (rather, "to"?) a woman who feels like shit afterward? Perhaps she SHOULD feel like shit? Perhaps the message is an important one and should not be whitewashed away? Again, just asking questions here.


full disclosure,

IOW, something BIG is coming... wait for it... wait for it... wait for it...


I hadn't been using any kind of birth control

Oh, what a surprise to find she is a raving idiot. Imagine my shock.


...which is crazy

No, it is stupidly and heartlessly careless, given her apparent non-desire to have a child at this time. She is an unforgivably willful idiot.


I know.

That she admits to having known does not mitigate her position. It aggravates it endlessly.


I’m a sex educator

And, apparently, an irritatingly stupid, self-centered little hypocrite who, by her own tone and words holds life precisely THAT cheaply that she would fuck without protection, knowing full well the likely result and how she would deal with it in the event. Her choice, and perhaps we should be thankful that such a shining example of self-serving dullardliness is not further polluting an already hopelessly over-tainted gene pool.


I love talking about birth control.

Honest to good God... what brand of idiot would you have to be to LOVE this? It's not as if it's a new BMW or a child's first words. Perhaps she needs to tone her rhetoric down a bit. Of course, she is so blindly stupid, it is perhaps not reasonable for me to expect she knows the meaning of "rhetoric".


But, you know, things happen.

No, you imbecile - THINGS didn't happen. Sex happened. Sex you presumably chose to have.



I wound up pregnant.

Give the nitwit a cigar (apologies to Sigmund Freud and Monica Lewinsky)... at least that is not likely to get her pregnant.

What an idiot.

asurfaholic
05-06-2014, 04:33 AM
what a disgusting pathetic excuse for a human life.

tod evans
05-06-2014, 05:44 AM
No class..

specsaregood
05-06-2014, 06:07 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if we learned down the road that she got herself pregnant for the express purpose of making this fine piece of cinematic excellence.

I think bamala called it.

Suzanimal
05-06-2014, 06:12 AM
I knew the cameras were in the room during the procedure, but I forgot about them almost immediately. I was focused on staying positive and feeling the love from everyone in the room. I am so lucky that I knew everyone involved, and I was so supported. I remember breathing and humming through it like I was giving birth. I know that sounds weird, but to me, this was as birth-like as it could be. It will always be a special memory for me. I still have my sonogram, and if my apartment were to catch fire, it would be the first thing I'd grab.


Nope, sounds fucking crazy. I think this woman has mental issues.

amy31416
05-06-2014, 06:14 AM
Welcome to the 21st century folks! It wouldn't surprise me if we learned down the road that she got herself pregnant for the express purpose of making this fine piece of cinematic excellence.

That had occurred to me.

limequat
05-06-2014, 07:50 AM
Well, I suppose the silver lining here is that cumbucket didn't reproduce. Successfully, at least.

PaulConventionWV
05-06-2014, 08:21 AM
Yes, that is a common caveat. "I support abortion, but not used as birth control."

For Pete's sake this woman COUNSELED people on birth control and still thought "it won't happen to me". Her excuses are pathetic too, because a real feminist would have demanded the man wear a condom.

She was an actress. When that line of work didn't succeed, she found a way to turn her new job into a way to garner attention. Color me SHOCKED!

A real feminist would have avoided men altogether and found a perfectly good female partner. Because, y'know, all sexual intercourse is actually rape.

PaulConventionWV
05-06-2014, 08:24 AM
I only saw bits and pieces of his routine in the past and liked the guy. Thanks for enlightening me on what a complete ghoul he is on this issue.

I just finished watching a few of his routines on this and he is just as bad if not worse than this cunt. F Doug Stan Hope, no longer a fan.

From that clip, he looks like a terrible comedian, not to mention a terrible person.

jtap
05-06-2014, 08:26 AM
Nothing I can add that hasn't already been said. I can fix that picture though from the OP.


2436

PaulConventionWV
05-06-2014, 08:33 AM
Let the author at least be semantically precise. I feel pretty confident this was the result neither of rape nor immaculate conception.



"But I'm not self-absorbed."



So far, so good. But then, suddenly...



Must've been UV.



<SCREEEEEEEECH>...

Buh-WHA? OK, someone please help me with this. I consider myself of nominal intelligence, but this is evading me. How does one go from becoming a "birth doula" (a "doula", BTW, comes from the Greek for "female slave". Thought some of you anti-abortion folks would get a kick out of that) to helping women with abortions?

Another question that arises is that if abortions are OK (I'm not making a value judgment here, only raising an obvious question), then why do women have to be counseled so that they feel "beautiful" in the aftermath? Perhaps there is a fundamental and undiminishable (incurable) reason they feel "dirty" or "unbeautiful" afterward? Perhaps the counseling is precisely the very worst thing to do "for" (rather, "to"?) a woman who feels like shit afterward? Perhaps she SHOULD feel like shit? Perhaps the message is an important one and should not be whitewashed away? Again, just asking questions here.



IOW, something BIG is coming... wait for it... wait for it... wait for it...



Oh, what a surprise to find she is a raving idiot. Imagine my shock.



No, it is stupidly and heartlessly careless, given her apparent non-desire to have a child at this time. She is an unforgivably willful idiot.



That she admits to having known does not mitigate her position. It aggravates it endlessly.



And, apparently, an irritatingly stupid, self-centered little hypocrite who, by her own tone and words holds life precisely THAT cheaply that she would fuck without protection, knowing full well the likely result and how she would deal with it in the event. Her choice, and perhaps we should be thankful that such a shining example of self-serving dullardliness is not further polluting an already hopelessly over-tainted gene pool.



Honest to good God... what brand of idiot would you have to be to LOVE this? It's not as if it's a new BMW or a child's first words. Perhaps she needs to tone her rhetoric down a bit. Of course, she is so blindly stupid, it is perhaps not reasonable for me to expect she knows the meaning of "rhetoric".



No, you imbecile - THINGS didn't happen. Sex happened. Sex you presumably chose to have.




Give the nitwit a cigar (apologies to Sigmund Freud and Monica Lewinsky)... at least that is not likely to get her pregnant.

What an idiot.

+rep

What an idiot. If you'll notice, she employs a lot of victim-speak. Things just "happen" to her and she's some innocent bystander. Then she does something stupid and gets pregnant and, well, she just "wound up" that way because "things happen."

It amazes me sometimes to think of how much of a sociopath you have to be to talk like getting pregnant is the equivalent of getting splashed with water by a passing car.

PaulConventionWV
05-06-2014, 08:35 AM
Well, I suppose the silver lining here is that cumbucket didn't reproduce. Successfully, at least.

We can only hope they get breeded out of existence in this manner.

AuH20
05-06-2014, 08:46 AM
They had an older gentleman (Emile?) call into the Mike Church show this morning and he stated that he had forced his wife to have an abortion many years ago. In his later years, it still haunts him that he may have killed his own son.

freejack
05-06-2014, 08:50 AM
If she really wanted to honest about abortions, the correct way to depict it is by filming the entire process of destroying the fetus through an endoscope. From life to a mutilated sack of flesh in just a few minutes. People need to get real.

osan
05-06-2014, 09:05 AM
They had an older gentleman (Emile?) call into the Mike Church show this morning and he stated that he had forced his wife to have an abortion many years ago. In his later years, it still haunts him that he may have killed his own son.

Oh shit... that is truly awful.

osan
05-06-2014, 09:06 AM
If she really wanted to honest about abortions, the correct way to depict it is by filming the entire process of destroying the fetus through an endoscope. From life to a mutilated sack of flesh in just a few minutes. People need to get real.

I'll have to call this the thread winner. Rep time, folks.

Origanalist
05-06-2014, 09:16 AM
I'll have to call this the thread winner. Rep time, folks.

I'm in for that. I agree, the whole thing is disturbingly transformed into soft and fuzzy new age experience.

milgram
05-06-2014, 09:28 AM
I always thought vegetarians had a point about slaughterhouse videos: meat eaters should be comfortable (or at least open to) watching them.

Same goes for abortion procedures though. But I can't name a documentary with the stones to display the act in full gutchurning detail. It's a major taboo.

Nirvikalpa
05-06-2014, 10:14 AM
I've seen (two, I believe) abortion films. One was in two parts and explained the tools used and then the procedure (d&c, end of first trimester), and the other just the procedure.

Didn't bother me as much of some of the shit I saw in EMS.

-----

I mean, I don't get it really. It's either you want women to walk into a procedure scared out of their minds, with their BP and pulse up that could risk more problems during the procedure, or you want a more educated populace on abortion so that hopefully they would (i guess in a pro-lifers standpoint) choose to not have one, or walk into the clinic knowing exactly what is going to happen.

But shouldn't we always wish for a more educated populace? You can research and watch a medical video on nearly all medical procedures - as abortion is a medical procedure, I don't see what the big issue is.

She did have the liberty to film her own medical procedure, right?

Nirvikalpa
05-06-2014, 10:18 AM
A real feminist would have avoided men altogether and found a perfectly good female partner. Because, y'know, all sexual intercourse is actually rape.

Nothing screams "I know what I'm talking about," like blanket accusations & collectivism.

This is almost sig-worthy... hmmm.

AuH20
05-06-2014, 10:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWzsuzUIWkI

Origanalist
05-06-2014, 10:22 AM
I've seen (two, I believe) abortion films. One was in two parts and explained the tools used and then the procedure (d&c, end of first trimester), and the other just the procedure.

Didn't bother me as much of some of the shit I saw in EMS.

-----

I mean, I don't get it really. It's either you want women to walk into a procedure scared out of their minds, with their BP and pulse up that could risk more problems during the procedure, or you want a more educated populace on abortion so that hopefully they would (i guess in a pro-lifers standpoint) choose to not have one, or walk into the clinic knowing exactly what is going to happen.

But shouldn't we always wish for a more educated populace? You can research and watch a medical video on nearly all medical procedures - as abortion is a medical procedure, I don't see what the big issue is.

She did have the liberty to film her own medical procedure, right?

"medical procedure"

Is that like "surgical drone strikes"?

Nirvikalpa
05-06-2014, 10:24 AM
"medical procedure"

Is that like "surgical drone strikes"?

I'm sorry - does it not involve a medical procedure? I call it what it is.

You're free to educate me on what it actually is, if it is not a medical procedure :)

kcchiefs6465
05-06-2014, 10:26 AM
I've seen (two, I believe) abortion films. One was in two parts and explained the tools used and then the procedure (d&c, end of first trimester), and the other just the procedure.

Didn't bother me as much of some of the shit I saw in EMS.

-----

I mean, I don't get it really. It's either you want women to walk into a procedure scared out of their minds, with their BP and pulse up that could risk more problems during the procedure, or you want a more educated populace on abortion so that hopefully they would (i guess in a pro-lifers standpoint) choose to not have one, or walk into the clinic knowing exactly what is going to happen.

But shouldn't we always wish for a more educated populace? You can research and watch a medical video on nearly all medical procedures - as abortion is a medical procedure, I don't see what the big issue is.

She did have the liberty to film her own medical procedure, right?
What?

Origanalist
05-06-2014, 10:27 AM
I'm sorry - does it not involve a medical procedure? I call it what it is.

You're free to educate me on what it actually is, if it is not a medical procedure :)

My definition of a medical procedure is one that is done to save the life or improve the health of the patient. Abortion doesn't meet that definition.

donnay
05-06-2014, 10:30 AM
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/cm/cosmopolitan/images/u7/cos-01-heather-xl.jpg

Soulless eyes.

fisharmor
05-06-2014, 10:31 AM
Slayer video
This and a completely forgotten track by Doug E. Fresh are the only songs I've ever heard that cast abortion in a negative light.
And Slayer isn't even making a value judgment - they're just describing what happens.

Pain - suffrage toyed
Life's little fragments destroyed

Best line of the song.

Madison320
05-06-2014, 10:34 AM
I mean, I don't get it really. It's either you want women to walk into a procedure scared out of their minds, with their BP and pulse up that could risk more problems during the procedure, or you want a more educated populace on abortion so that hopefully they would (i guess in a pro-lifers standpoint) choose to not have one, or walk into the clinic knowing exactly what is going to happen.

But shouldn't we always wish for a more educated populace? You can research and watch a medical video on nearly all medical procedures - as abortion is a medical procedure, I don't see what the big issue is.

She did have the liberty to film her own medical procedure, right?

I agree. It seems like most people here see abortion as murder with no gray areas. I don't think it's that simple. For one thing the mother has to carry the fetus so there's an obligation that doesn't exist with "normal" murder. Also I've asked myself if I would care if I was aborted, and I don't see how I would, how would I know? Suppose you knew 2 women, one had an abortion and the other murdered her husband in cold blood. Would you feel the same about both? Would you stop associating with a woman if you found out she had an abortion? I wouldn't but I sure as hell would if I found out she killed her husband. I don't think libertarian theory answers the question of abortion. I take a compromise position on this. I think it should be legal for the first trimester.

Danke
05-06-2014, 10:40 AM
A real feminist would have avoided men altogether and found a perfectly good female partner. Because, y'know, all sexual intercourse is actually rape.

:D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUBnxqEVKlk

Philhelm
05-06-2014, 10:45 AM
. . . and I didn’t have any long-term partners.

I know you didn't, sweetheart.

PaulConventionWV
05-06-2014, 10:47 AM
Nothing screams "I know what I'm talking about," like blanket accusations & collectivism.

This is almost sig-worthy... hmmm.

Go ahead and stoop that low if you like.

You obviously have a reading comprehension problem since that was obviously meant to be sarcasm and not a pinnacle of wisdom.

Also, what is it, exactly, that I am accusing anyone of?

PaulConventionWV
05-06-2014, 10:49 AM
I've seen (two, I believe) abortion films. One was in two parts and explained the tools used and then the procedure (d&c, end of first trimester), and the other just the procedure.

Didn't bother me as much of some of the shit I saw in EMS.

-----

I mean, I don't get it really. It's either you want women to walk into a procedure scared out of their minds, with their BP and pulse up that could risk more problems during the procedure, or you want a more educated populace on abortion so that hopefully they would (i guess in a pro-lifers standpoint) choose to not have one, or walk into the clinic knowing exactly what is going to happen.

But shouldn't we always wish for a more educated populace? You can research and watch a medical video on nearly all medical procedures - as abortion is a medical procedure, I don't see what the big issue is.

She did have the liberty to film her own medical procedure, right?

Oh, my. How can we live with ourselves causing "problems" by indirectly contributing to a slight increase in the woman's blood pressure. I am ashamed.

Oh, and nobody is talking about liberty here. Of course she had the liberty to film her medical procedure, and we have the liberty to ridicule her for it and say she's an attention whore.

Philhelm
05-06-2014, 10:50 AM
You're free to educate me on what it actually is, if it is not a medical procedure :)

I would throw my hat into the ring, but it would be hypocritical of me. I decided to check my privilege and realized that there should be laws against educating the female gender so as to better keep my stranglehold on my subordinates. :D

PaulConventionWV
05-06-2014, 10:52 AM
This and a completely forgotten track by Doug E. Fresh are the only songs I've ever heard that cast abortion in a negative light.
And Slayer isn't even making a value judgment - they're just describing what happens.

Pain - suffrage toyed
Life's little fragments destroyed

Best line of the song.

Suffrage toyed? Who's toying with our right to vote again?

jclay2
05-06-2014, 11:23 AM
They had an older gentleman (Emile?) call into the Mike Church show this morning and he stated that he had forced his wife to have an abortion many years ago. In his later years, it still haunts him that he may have killed his own son.

There was a caller on Alex Jones a few months back who called in with a "christmas carol like" abortion story. 30 years after he forced his girlfriend to get an abortion, he had two dreams in a row on christmas and christmas eve. The first one took place as him being a third party observer to the events which led his girlfriend to get an abortion. He observed himself berating and cussing her out until she was crying and ready to accept the abortion. The following night, he had the same dream except this time it was from the point of view of his girlfriend. It was a really powerful story an the man said until those dreams, he did not understand the gravity of what he had done.

fisharmor
05-06-2014, 11:39 AM
I agree. It seems like most people here see abortion as murder with no gray areas. I don't think it's that simple. For one thing the mother has to carry the fetus so there's an obligation that doesn't exist with "normal" murder.
Murder isn't always murder, either. Sometimes it's only killing. If I'm taking a group photo on a balcony and, while backing up, I knock someone off head first and he dies, the state will try me for murder, sure, but it's not murder. But I still killed him.

On that score, I'd be content if pro-abortionists would simply admit that it is killing. That's scientific, unanswerable fact... but the pro-abortionists keep acting as if it's up for debate. Primarily by trying to define "life" in a way that lets them support abortions.


Also I've asked myself if I would care if I was aborted, and I don't see how I would, how would I know?
This may surprise you, but the entire world doesn't really care what your individual opinion is. If you're incapable of abstracting this argument into a discussion of what is right vs. what is wrong, then you're always going to be in the pro-abortion crowd.
If there's no such thing as objective wrong to you, you're never going to even understand the counter argument.
Also, you're never really going to understand liberty.


Suffrage toyed? Who's toying with our right to vote again?
Those two words basically mean "You fought for the right to vote and decide how things go in society and it took you 50 years to vote yourselves the right to murder your children".
Toyed, because people who vote for such things aren't making a serious effort. They're toying around with the responsibilities they were given.

eduardo89
05-06-2014, 11:44 AM
They had an older gentleman (Emile?) call into the Mike Church show this morning and he stated that he had forced his wife to have an abortion many years ago. In his later years, it still haunts him that he may have killed his own son.

May have?

The Rebel Poet
05-06-2014, 12:10 PM
A real feminist would have avoided men altogether and found a perfectly good female partner. Because, y'know, all sexual intercourse is actually rape.
:D

The Rebel Poet
05-06-2014, 12:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWzsuzUIWkIThat is an amazing song.

The Rebel Poet
05-06-2014, 12:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6knrJJ4Kfc WHAT THE FUCK??? That is one fucked-up sociopath.

The Rebel Poet
05-06-2014, 12:55 PM
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/cm/cosmopolitan/images/u7/cos-01-heather-xl.jpg

Soulless eyes.
She looks so sad. I really feel sad for people like this. Not that I think they should be sympathied out of punishment, but the whole thing is so awful.

amy31416
05-06-2014, 12:59 PM
They had an older gentleman (Emile?) call into the Mike Church show this morning and he stated that he had forced his wife to have an abortion many years ago. In his later years, it still haunts him that he may have killed his own son.

I'm surprised they're still married, she must loathe him as much or more than he loathes himself.

Madison320
05-06-2014, 12:59 PM
This may surprise you, but the entire world doesn't really care what your individual opinion is. If you're incapable of abstracting this argument into a discussion of what is right vs. what is wrong, then you're always going to be in the pro-abortion crowd.
If there's no such thing as objective wrong to you, you're never going to even understand the counter argument.
Also, you're never really going to understand liberty.



I guess I'll just sit on the couch and watch american idol and drink a case of natty light. I'll leave the heavy thinking to geniuses like you.

The Rebel Poet
05-06-2014, 01:01 PM
So she didn't really film her abortion.
Here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gON-8PP6zgQ

Incidentally, this is the movie that the song AuH20 posted (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?451297-Why-I-Filmed-My-Abortion&p=5518699#post5518699) is based on.

The Rebel Poet
05-06-2014, 01:06 PM
Suffrage toyed? Who's toying with our right to vote again?
I took suffrage as a word play referring to the suffering of the baby. Also, that person will never be able to vote. People want to vote for the right to murder, but the victim gets no vote.

Philhelm
05-06-2014, 01:15 PM
Also, why is her hair white? Is she a Targaryen?

Danke
05-06-2014, 01:19 PM
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/lilith-the-barren-sex-crazed-child-killing-mascot-of-the-abortion-movement

"Every once in a while, one stumbles upon a terrifying level of honesty among abortion supporters. Normally, the truth is something that refreshes us when we come upon it - not so in this realm.

Such is the nomenclature of what appears to be a moderately successful group dedicated solely to providing low-income women with abortion money, called the Lilith Fund.

The Texas-based group explains its name on its website as follows: “Lilith was the first woman created by God, as Adam’s wife and equal. Because Lilith refused to be subservient or submissive, she was sent away from Eden.”

This is a somewhat accurate presentation of Lilith’s bio; however, it’s certainly not the whole story. Here’s how the Hebrew legend, as first described in the Alphabet of Ben Sira of the 8th-10th century, ends: after Lilith flew away (and was not sent) from Eden, God punished her by dictating that one hundred of her own demon children would be killed each day. She responds by asserting her perpetual desire to sicken and kill newborn infants.

The abortion industry’s poster girl if ever there was one."

acptulsa
05-06-2014, 01:24 PM
Regardless of how anyone feels about abortion, I think there is one thing everyone here can agree on:


2436

This woman is nothing if not an attention whore. Only ghemminger could possibly be proud of her.

amy31416
05-06-2014, 01:41 PM
Also, why is her hair white? Is she a Targaryen?

Nerdsayswhat?





:)

Philhelm
05-06-2014, 02:36 PM
Nerdsayswhat?





:)

There is nothing nerdy about Emilia Clarke.

Lucille
05-06-2014, 03:05 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2621461/Abortion-counselor-proves-procedure-isnt-scary-posting-YouTube-video-OWN-termination-three-weeks.html


it was right for me and for no one else

You can say that again.


'I feel in awe of the fact that I can make a baby. I can make a life...

And then kill it. How awesomely empowering for you.

kahless
05-06-2014, 03:20 PM
Also, why is her hair white? Is she a Targaryen?

I was thinking more along the lines of her being a White Walker.

Nirvikalpa
05-06-2014, 03:20 PM
Regardless of how anyone feels about abortion, I think there is one thing everyone here can agree on:



This woman is nothing if not an attention whore. Only ghemminger could possibly be proud of her.

I'm not "proud" of her in the least (and I wouldn't go as far as to call her an attention whore), but I do think it is incredibly sad and eye-opening that so many women felt like this gave them an outlet to talk about their abortions, and even some who had miscarriages. I do get horribly upset that women carry those types of feelings with them everywhere they go, especially for women who naturally lose their children and then are somewhat expected of society to just mourn in private - and that's the truth of it, I've heard it from women numerous times. Even women who miscarry don't have any type of outlet, and I think that's despicable. It reminds me of a TEDtalk I watched, with Alisa Volkman + Rufus Griscom on "Parenting Taboos (http://www.ted.com/talks/rufus_griscom_alisa_volkman_let_s_talk_parenting_t aboos/transcript#t-107000)":


8:50 AV: So taboo number three: you can't talk about your miscarriage -- but today I'll talk about mine. So after we had Declan, we kind of recalibrated our expectations. We thought we actually could go through this again and thought we knew what we would be up against. And we were grateful that I was able to get pregnant, and I soon learned that we were having a boy, and then when I was five months, we learned that we had lost our child. This is actually the last little image we have of him. And it was obviously a very difficult time -- really painful. As I was working through that mourning process, I was amazed that I didn't want to see anybody. I really wanted to crawl into a hole, and I didn't really know how I was going to work my way back into my surrounding community. And I realize, I think, the way I was feeling that way, is on a really deep gut level, I was feeling a lot of shame and embarrassed, frankly, that, in some respects, I had failed at delivering what I'm genetically engineered to do. And of course, it made me question, if I wasn't able to have another child, what would that mean for my marriage, and just me as a woman. So it was a very difficult time.

As I started working through it more, I started climbing out of that hole and talking with other people. I was really amazed by all the stories that started flooding in. People I interacted with daily, worked with, was friends with, family members that I had known a long time, had never shared with me their own stories. And I just remember feeling all these stories came out of the woodwork, and I felt like I happened upon this secret society of women that I now was a part of, which was reassuring and also really concerning. And I think, miscarriage is an invisible loss. There's not really a lot of community support around it. There's really no ceremony, rituals, or rites. And I think, with a death, you have a funeral, you celebrate the life, and there's a lot of community support, and it's something women don't have with miscarriage.

10:48 RG: Which is too bad because, of course, it's a very common and very traumatic experience. Fifteen to 20 percent of all pregnancies result in miscarriage, and I find this astounding. In a survey, 74 percent of women said that miscarriage, they felt, was partly their fault, which is awful. And astoundingly, 22 percent said they would hide a miscarriage from their spouse.

Anyway, I think this is more of an eye-opening and shocking story for way beyond the main subject matter here... at least for me.

Philhelm
05-06-2014, 03:24 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of her being a White Walker.

But we learned a couple of episodes ago that the White Walkers don't in fact kill Craster's male babies. I repeat, the undead villains of an ultra-violent HBO series do not kill babies. The subject of this thread does kill babies, however.

eduardo89
05-06-2014, 03:34 PM
But we learned a couple of episodes ago that the White Walkers don't in fact kill Craster's male babies. I repeat, the undead villains of an ultra-violent HBO series do not kill babies. The subject of this thread does kill babies, however.

The White Walkers appear to show more love for babies than this woman.

jbauer
05-06-2014, 03:36 PM
I'm sorry - does it not involve a medical procedure? I call it what it is.

You're free to educate me on what it actually is, if it is not a medical procedure :)

Well, Wikipidea calls it: A medical procedure is a course of action intended to achieve a result in the care of persons with health problems.


Abortion is the murder of a human being. An abortion is the EXACT opposite of a procedure intended to achieve a result in the care of a person with health problems.

kahless
05-06-2014, 03:36 PM
But we learned a couple of episodes ago that the White Walkers don't in fact kill Craster's male babies. I repeat, the undead villains of an ultra-violent HBO series do not kill babies. The subject of this thread does kill babies, however.

Good point, the baby being left in the forest to be converted to a dead like white walker is still better off than being exterminated by this thing. I hate to use the word woman since it would be an insult women in this world by adding her to the same category.

Nirvikalpa
05-06-2014, 03:44 PM
Well, Wikipidea calls it: A medical procedure is a course of action intended to achieve a result in the care of persons with health problems.


Abortion is the murder of a human being. An abortion is the EXACT opposite of a procedure intended to achieve a result in the care of a person with health problems.

"An activity directed at or performed on an individual with the object of improving health, treating disease or injury, or making a diagnosis."[1]
"The act or conduct of diagnosis, treatment, or operation."[2]
"A series of steps by which a desired result is accomplished."[3]
"The sequence of steps to be followed in establishing some course of action."[4]

Numerous operations ignore health, and are still considered medical procedures - plastic surgery (disclaimer: not all plastic surgery is done for perks, I know), circumcision, vaginoplasty, lobotomies weren't for the health and wellness of anyone, etc etc...

PaulConventionWV
05-06-2014, 03:48 PM
I took suffrage as a word play referring to the suffering of the baby. Also, that person will never be able to vote. People want to vote for the right to murder, but the victim gets no vote.

I think I get it now. I thought he had confused the word "suffrage" and "suffering" and that annoys the heck out of me, but come to think of it, it makes sense.

eduardo89
05-06-2014, 03:55 PM
I mean, I don't get it really. It's either you want women to walk into a procedure scared out of their minds, with their BP and pulse up that could risk more problems during the procedure, or you want a more educated populace on abortion so that hopefully they would (i guess in a pro-lifers standpoint) choose to not have one, or walk into the clinic knowing exactly what is going to happen.

But shouldn't we always wish for a more educated populace?

Sure, let's educate people about what abortion really is, the murder of an innocent child.

PaulConventionWV
05-06-2014, 03:58 PM
"An activity directed at or performed on an individual with the object of improving health, treating disease or injury, or making a diagnosis."[1]
"The act or conduct of diagnosis, treatment, or operation."[2]
"A series of steps by which a desired result is accomplished."[3]
"The sequence of steps to be followed in establishing some course of action."[4]

Numerous operations ignore health, and are still considered medical procedures - plastic surgery (disclaimer: not all plastic surgery is done for perks, I know), circumcision, vaginoplasty, lobotomies weren't for the health and wellness of anyone, etc etc...

Lobotomies were for the health and wellness of people. They just didn't know of its ineffectiveness. What you seem to be doing is quoting definitions of the word "procedure", not "medical procedure." You did not make that clear in your post.

I am proud to have my post displayed by an ignorant feminist's sig.

Feeding the Abscess
05-06-2014, 04:18 PM
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/cm/cosmopolitan/images/u7/cos-01-heather-xl.jpg

Soulless eyes.

Looks better than the other picture being used, in which she looks positively psychotic. After seeing this picture, I'm starting to believe this all might be some sort of a joke:

http://media3.policymic.com/OTEwMGI1ODRhNiMvVTl5V0dpWjZUakt5VlFRcm9vbHdaZ1hTb0 Q0PS8weDA6MTA0NXg2NTkvODQweDUzMC9zMy5hbWF6b25hd3Mu Y29tL3BvbGljeW1pYy1pbWFnZXMvYTNmZmVkNmFkYjYyNTNiZW JkNmVmYTcxYzQxNmQ2ODJkNTlhYTQ5ZDhiNmIzZDMwYTJmMDE3 YzkxODgzZjI3Zi5qcGc=.jpg

Nobody would possibly use this picture seriously... right?

jclay2
05-06-2014, 04:54 PM
The game of thrones references are too funny in this thread.

Tywysog Cymru
05-06-2014, 05:14 PM
I had a friend who was a birth doula, and she fascinated me with her stories about giving birth and growing life.

She was so fascinated she decided to get a job centered around destroying that life.

PierzStyx
05-06-2014, 05:17 PM
She did have the liberty to film her own medical procedure, right?

Sure. But she didn't have the right to murder a human being, just the legal power to do so. Elective abortion is a perfect example of the evils of the all-powerful State.

Paulbot99
05-06-2014, 05:57 PM
But we learned a couple of episodes ago that the White Walkers don't in fact kill Craster's male babies. I repeat, the undead villains of an ultra-violent HBO series do not kill babies. The subject of this thread does kill babies, however.

Sometimes, evil monsters have nothing on the darkness of human hearts.

PRB
05-06-2014, 07:06 PM
Sure. But she didn't have the right to murder a human being, just the legal power to do so. Elective abortion is a perfect example of the evils of the all-powerful State.

what is a right other than a legal power?

PRB
05-06-2014, 07:07 PM
A real feminist would have avoided men altogether and found a perfectly good female partner. Because, y'know, all sexual intercourse is actually rape.

Because who better to ask than a man on what makes a real feminist. :rolleyes:

jbauer
05-06-2014, 07:07 PM
[QUOTE=Nirvikalpa;5519115]"An activity directed at or performed on an individual with the object of improving health, treating disease or injury, or making a diagnosis."[1]
"The act or conduct of diagnosis, treatment, or operation."[2]
"A series of steps by which a desired result is accomplished."[3]
"The sequence of steps to be followed in establishing some course of action."[4]

2: Says who? I guess if you're the baby getting its brains vacumed out calling you a diagnosis, treatment or operation is the least of your worries.
3: A step? Heck, you can talk about anything with this....so i want to sharpen my pencil. I put its tip into a pencil sharpener. Twist the handle. OH MY GOSH...desired result or accomplishment!!!!!!
4: Same as before, but I'm glad you've marginlized human life to the point of a sequence of steps.

~~~~~

Let me ask you this. Have you had any kids? I challenge anyone who is pro choice to have kids and still maintain their stance on abortion. I can tell you I was significantly more into the "ehh, its your life do what you want" corner until I had 2 children. Seeing them come into this world and thinking about the vulnerability of a child for what say the first 10 years of their life changes you. A fetus isn't a fetus. Its a living being full of all the opportunities, disappointments and life experiences waiting to happen. My Mom was 16 when she got pregnant with me. She was a prime candidate for an abortion. Thankfully for me I'm here to talk about it. I'm here to marry a wonderful woman. I'm here to have children of my own who have their entire lives in front of them. I get that opportunity to touch the lives I've touched because my Mother chose to take the HARD path, not the easy path.

The Free Hornet
05-06-2014, 07:48 PM
Any person who thinks they know how another life will turn out, so well they can just destroy it on a whim, are playing God, because only an omniscient being could know that and only an omnipotent one could be justified in doing it.

How does being "omnipotent" justify anything? That is the 'might makes right' approach that contradicts your other point ("Humans have a natural right to life.").


Its disgusting.

I agree.

Superfly
05-06-2014, 08:05 PM
You know I'd say this is disgusting...but that's not even the word for it.

How arrogant and egocentric do you possibly have to be to try to paint something like this positively? I would hope those who have abortions would at least feel a deep regret but this mindset is borderline psychopathic.

ClydeCoulter
05-06-2014, 08:17 PM
"Why? Cause killin' is easy, just look at my face while I'm doin' it, I do it right and so can you."

osan
05-06-2014, 08:20 PM
. . . and I didn’t have any long-term partners.

I know you didn't, sweetheart.

I was going to comment on that bit myself but had to go fix fencing, which the damned goats got through anyway.

While I am not one to make moral judgments on the sexual habits of others (all else equal), I do question the casual attitude some display regarding sex. It is not that one need always regard it with the gravity of a neutron star and be all stupid-serious about it, but taking it too casually is, IMO, equally perilous for any of several reasons including disease, emotional distresses, unplanned pregnancies, and so forth. I can speak for nobody else, but for me sex is at least 90% a mental affair - one of mind and soul (for lack of a better term). Treating it too casually, especially as a matter of long-term habit tends to have deleterious effects on people. IMO, that is because it is so intimate an act and as a result of its fundamental characteristics, does not mix well with too often taking it too casually. I've known a lot of people who have held this unfortunate habit. My friend Kevin is a good example. One year younger than myself, where I was in committed relationships, he was always in very shallow ones. He is still unmarried (not that this is really a big deal per sé, but it is when you avoid marriage for "wrong" reasons), has no children, and IMO has in this regard lead a somewhat hollow life, which surprises me since he is a devout, and I mean DEVOUT, catholic.

I had the exact opposite problem... I may have taken it all too seriously too much of the time. Each extreme, methinks, has its liabilities and people are probably better served to realize this.

But what the hell do I know?

2young2vote
05-06-2014, 08:48 PM
#AbortionSelfie
#NoProtection
#ThingsHappenIWouldUpPregnant
#YOLOButMyChildNeverWill
#IKilledTheMonsterInsideMe
#LookAtMe

The Rebel Poet
05-07-2014, 12:05 AM
"You must spread some Reputation
around before giving it to jbauer
again."

I want to know when "feminism" went from being this:
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/04/67/30/046730207bb9448a705b255b05cdd165.jpg

to being this:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MrqkDUC-d-w/U2nGd2Kr9xI/AAAAAAAAANo/mRoJmIw3gSI/s1600/feminism.jpg

The Rebel Poet
05-07-2014, 12:57 AM
I've seen (two, I believe) abortion films. One was in two parts and explained the tools used and then the procedure (d&c, end of first trimester), and the other just the procedure.

Didn't bother me as much of some of the shit I saw in EMS.

-----

I mean, I don't get it really. It's either you want women to walk into a procedure scared out of their minds, with their BP and pulse up that could risk more problems during the procedure, or you want a more educated populace on abortion so that hopefully they would (i guess in a pro-lifers standpoint) choose to not have one, or walk into the clinic knowing exactly what is going to happen.

But shouldn't we always wish for a more educated populace? You can research and watch a medical video on nearly all medical procedures - as abortion is a medical procedure, I don't see what the big issue is.

She did have the liberty to film her own medical procedure, right?I totally agree anyone should be allowed to film any medical procedure. Like Three Guys One Hammer. It's exactly the same thing, but you never hear people bitching about that!

PaulConventionWV
05-07-2014, 11:41 AM
Because who better to ask than a man on what makes a real feminist. :rolleyes:

A lot of people apparently have some real problems detecting obvious sarcasm. :rolleyes:

osan
05-07-2014, 12:01 PM
I want to know when "feminism" went from being this:
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/04/67/30/046730207bb9448a705b255b05cdd165.jpg

to being this:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MrqkDUC-d-w/U2nGd2Kr9xI/AAAAAAAAANo/mRoJmIw3gSI/s1600/feminism.jpg

You make a valid point, and one I noticed long ago. The standard feminist rubric, as commonly peddled in media with the subtext asserting it to be the one and only valid point of view on the matter, rather than having liberated women, drove them into a narrower channel than ever before. There is now a common formula for being a "proper" modern woman. It is narrowly meted, and woe unto any female of the species that wanders beyond its pale, for scorn by the dumptruck load awaits them.

The crap I have heard issue from the mouths of women over the past 25 years and on this very topic has been utterly mind boggling in a disturbingly large proportion of cases. I've seen women berating others to their faces for having chosen to be a parent to their children before all else! Modern, so-called "feminism" is a dementedly violent form of thinly veiled misogynism. Out of one side of their mouths these stoopid womyn blather on endlessly of equality, freedom, and respect for women. From the other end of their perpetually running yaps, the dim-witted, squatting hypocrites feel justified and entitled to dictate to other women how they ought to be acting, thinking, feeling, and living their lives. It is quite astonishing to witness this in action, which can leave the thinking man in no other state but that in which he wonders from what planet such raving lunatics hail.

The only good news I have divined in all of this is my observation that these womyn appear to have goen back into the wood work. I see nowhere nearly as much of this brand of pugnacious idiocy today as I did, say, 20 years ago. I don't know if some came to their senses or they just got tired of their own stridency.

PRB
05-07-2014, 12:11 PM
A lot of people apparently have some real problems detecting obvious sarcasm. :rolleyes:

I didn't read that last bit, ha! Good one.

acptulsa
05-07-2014, 12:16 PM
I see nowhere nearly as much of this brand of pugnacious idiocy today as I did, say, 20 years ago. I don't know if some came to their senses or they just got tired of their own stridency.

Many women are slaves to fashion. Thankfully, fashion is by its very definition transitory.

Of course, many women are not slaves to fashion. I never appreciated Angie Dickenson very much back in the day. But I developed a considerable appreciation for her within the last couple of years when I saw an interview wherein she grinned and said, 'I'm not a feminist. I like men.'

Let the forces of female orthodoxy and conformity take her on. I dare them.

osan
05-07-2014, 02:08 PM
It's either you want women to walk into a procedure scared out of their minds, with their BP and pulse up that could risk more problems during the procedure, or you want a more educated populace on abortion so that hopefully they would (i guess in a pro-lifers standpoint) choose to not have one, or walk into the clinic knowing exactly what is going to happen.

This is something of a false dichotomy. That's not the only choice, and the choices you cite are not mutually exclusive.

I support a woman's right to choose, just as I support someone's right to destroy themselves with meth. But that does not mean I agree with the choice, especially when made in a casual and cavalier manner, which is very often the case nowadays. I am not required to agree with it.

In my estimation, it is a good idea for a woman to make her choice with full awareness and understanding of what it is she is electing to do. If that makes her uneasy, perhaps it is because she ought to be uneasy about it, just as the prospective meth user should be uneasy about the truth of what is almost certain to become of him once he has started using. I do not advocate for the forced abolition of abortions, but I do for the full-awareness of what the act truly is. This only makes sense. To whitewash the full truth into some bunnies-and-light, Disney Productions version is, IMO, bordering on actual criminality (fraud) because it is not as if a woman were deciding on which color her hair was going to be this week.

The choices are not restricted to "scared out of their minds" and some Disney distortion of reality. The "knowing exactly what is going to happen" part is likely to drive a wedge into her resolve to have the procedure, giving her pause - and on the average I think that is a good thing. The number of cases where the clarity of the decision is absolute, even in light of full knowledge of what is to be done, is quite small from what I can divine. That tells me that the majority of these decisions are made based upon little more than mere convenience. While I concede that even convenience-as-basis is the right of the woman to choose, it simultaneously makes my skin crawl.

So yeah, if a woman is scared I regard it as a good thing because this is not the sort of thing one should be choosing with less hand-wringing than which pair of shoes to wear to the office on Thursday.


But shouldn't we always wish for a more educated populace?

Depends on what the education is, who provides, who pays, and so forth. I advocate for a more FREE population. If you want to be a dumbass, that is your right and I see no reason to interfere. By the same token, there should be NO "safety nets" to bail one's sorry bacon out of the frying pan when their famously stupid decision lands them there.


You can research and watch a medical video on nearly all medical procedures - as abortion is a medical procedure, I don't see what the big issue is.


Is it? Just because it is conducted my an MD it does not follow it is a medical procedure. To wit: execution by lethal injection is clearly not a medical procedure, though it sports the trappings of one. I am thinking perhaps you are gravely mistaken in this assertion/assumption. Note the central pillar of the hippocratic oath: do no harm. Well, I have endless doubts about abortion in moral terms (one reason I support choice), but one thing that is absolutely beyond any argument is that something is very much indeed being harmed during the procedure. Let us not entertain any deluded notions to the contrary on this point. This becomes more glaringly true as the age of the fetus advances.

Cognitively speaking, it is overwhelmingly easy to regard a fertilized egg as nothing more than a mass of cells being swept away in a D&C. Whether the cognitive reality maps well with the actual reality beyond one's congitive senses... that is the $64 question that keeps this issue alive in political discussion. But the same cannot be credibly claimed for the same fetus at, say, 26 weeks - just to pick an arbitrary point in time. To say that the abortion procedure is not harming someone is far less intuitively credible because to gaze upon that fetus feels so very much as if we are gazing upon a human being, vis-à-vis a blob of cellular matter. But we must also admit that the question of the mapping of our cognitive realities with the external stands in equal doubt, once again giving endless fuel to the political debate.


She did have the liberty to film her own medical procedure, right?

Yes, but what is your point?

osan
05-07-2014, 02:17 PM
Many women are slaves to fashion.

Speaking purely statistically, vanity is woman's downfall just as men's is being steered through life by their knobs. We each seem to have our built-in weaknesses. I suspect this keeps life interesting.

PierzStyx
05-07-2014, 05:27 PM
How does being "omnipotent" justify anything? That is the 'might makes right' approach that contradicts your other point ("Humans have a natural right to life.").



I agree.


I understand your point, and I agree. My thought process is that only an omnipotent, omniscient being, in essence a god, could even begin to argue that they have enough wisdom and enough power to know when a life should or shouldn't be taken. I'm not so much commenting of if that argument would be convincing. Since humans are not gods, any argument for elective abortion doesn't even have a foundation on which to build.

PierzStyx
05-07-2014, 05:31 PM
Because who better to ask than a man on what makes a real feminist. :rolleyes:

So you're saying men are to stupid to understand what defines a woman, or a man as a feminist? I find the assertion ignorant and sexist. I've met plenty of men who call themselves feminists as well.

69360
05-07-2014, 05:40 PM
I'm sorry - does it not involve a medical procedure? I call it what it is.

You're free to educate me on what it actually is, if it is not a medical procedure :)

I call it a murder. She killed a genetically unique human being. Run a DNA test on the baby she killed. It wasn't a part of her it was a separate person. If the father of the baby had caused it's death he would be prosecuted for murder. If a stranger killed her while she was pregnant, he would be prosecuted for two murders. If a doctor caused it's death he would be guilty of malpractice and negligent homicide. But the mother kills her baby smiling in front of a camera and that's just fine and dandy.

osan
05-07-2014, 05:45 PM
Humans have a natural right to life.

So does a flea.


Any person who thinks they know how another life will turn out, so well they can just destroy it on a whim, are playing God

Your statement is built on several mountainous assumptions, the biggest of them being that people are separate from God.


More women are violated, have their rights taken, and have their personhood destroyed by elective abortion than in any way else, in any other manner.

While I may share some of you disdain for abortion, this assertion cannot be supported as true, save in the cases where a woman is physically forced to undergo the procedure. Women who choose to abort a pregnancy are not violated. They might be said to be making some sort of terrible error, but they cannot be said to having been violated. I trust you see why this is the case?


I mourn for all the women who have ended up in trash heaps, discarded as trash because of people like her. What a sick bitch.

Mourn? Do as you please, naturally, but methinks this runs a bit melodramatic. People who wreck themselves choose to do so. I see nothing to mourn or pity, all else equal, even when the doing makes me cringe. I don't like seeing people damage themselves and I might even offer a friendly opinion on the matter if perchance I find circumstances favorable, but I do not proselytize or otherwise interfere. Your life is either yours or it is not. If it is, I have no authority to dictate or otherwise force you to do this and not do that. If I try, you are well within your rights to take whatever measures you deem fit to stop me. This is a very simple thing, not all of the outcomes of which are necessarily appealing.

kcchiefs6465
05-07-2014, 05:47 PM
I call it a murder. She killed a genetically unique human being. Run a DNA test on the baby she killed. It wasn't a part of her it was a separate person. If the father of the baby had caused it's death he would be prosecuted for murder. If a stranger killed her while she was pregnant, he would be prosecuted for two murders. If a doctor caused it's death he would be guilty of malpractice and negligent homicide. But the mother kills her baby smiling in front of a camera and that's just fine and dandy.
This.

eduardo89
05-07-2014, 06:48 PM
This. You guys should add a karma system to these forums.

We do, it's called rep. It should appear to you once you have a few more posts.

It's the star icon you see in this picture. I've added a Mexican hat to make it more clear.

http://i.imgur.com/OEjQtwT.png?1

Origanalist
05-07-2014, 06:51 PM
Your statement is built on several mountainous assumptions, the biggest of them being that people are separate from God.
.

Not being God doesn't mean we are separate.

Origanalist
05-07-2014, 06:53 PM
We do, it's called rep. It should appear to you once you have a few more posts.

It's the star icon you see in this picture. I've added a Mexican hat to make it more clear.

http://i.imgur.com/OEjQtwT.png?1

Beaners always have to make it about race.

eduardo89
05-07-2014, 07:01 PM
Beaners always have to make it about race.

I just realised I missed the opportunity to do this:

http://i.imgur.com/h4Zps34.png?1

Origanalist
05-07-2014, 07:06 PM
I just realised I missed the opportunity to do this:

http://i.imgur.com/h4Zps34.png?1

I bet he eats at Taco Del Mar a lot.

osan
05-07-2014, 08:33 PM
I call it a murder.

Perhaps it is just that. Perhaps it is not. Nobody knows for sure what makes us human and whether there is a time in our development when we are not. This is what makes the entire abortion issue so thorny. Further inflaming the debate is the fact that most of the people weighing in on the issue manifest great hubris and a glaring absence of skepticism. Most of the pro-choice people seem to believe that they know for certain (with zero credible evidence to back it up) that a 39 week fetus that has not yet undergone the birth event is not a human being. Equally presumptuously, the majority of those from the pro-life camp seem absolutely convinced (with zero credible evidence to back it up) that a fertilized egg that has yet to make its first division is a fully fledged person. I find both extremes problematic precisely due to the absence of any conclusive evidence one way or another.

We are talking about one of God's mysteries here - that of life itself, and one that IMO is not quite so easily analyzed, categorized, and explained like a recipe for a really good peach pie. Oh, and I make a fab peach pie, BTW.


She killed a genetically unique human being.

She killed something that was genetically unique, that is for sure. Whether it was a human being remains to be demonstrated conclusively such that there would exist no argument of any credibility that could be mounted against it.

I would also point out that from the Christian angle, the pro-life position stands as particularly hubris laden and self-contradicting in that Christians affirm the existence of both body and soul, the former being ephemeral, the latter eternal. This, of course, direcly implies residence of the one "in" the other, which then raises the question of when, exactly, does the soul enter the body? At this point in time, there appears to be no method for determining this with any precision. We seem to be able to say that before the sperm fertilizes a given egg, no soul is present (what if even that is wrong??) and we seem to be able to say that a newborn clearly possesses the soul (and what if THAT, too, is wrong?). If one or both of the assumptions are false, then it's wildcard city all around and the only thing we can say on the topic with certainty is that nobody has a clue as to what it is he is talking about, which would not surprise me one bit were we to find this to be the case. Assuming, however, that both presumptions are in fact correct, then it necessarily follows that at some point between fertilization and birth the soul enters the flesh by some as-yet unknown means. What we do not know is when that happens. To assume that it must be at fertilization cannot be taken as more reasonable than the assertion that places it at some other time.

Some may balk at this with a great temptation to dismiss it out of hand, whether honestly but ignorantly, or because to accept it would threaten their world view. I warn against this and here is why: death. There are perhaps now literally millions or tens or hundreds of millions of cases where people physically die such that, were there no human interventions, the next stop for them would be the slab. But modern medical practice now snatches people from well within the jaws of death on a daily basis all over the world. There are endless accounts of the various "journeys" people have taken while their bodies were technically dead, but that is not relevant to my point, which is that despite being really and truly dead such that in the absence of competent intervention the person's next gig lies a fathom down, even after extended periods people have been returned to life, essentially the same as they were before (though that is not 100% the case as those who have experienced this will tell you).

So, when the body dies, when does the soul leave? Immediately? If so, then by what means does it return when the body is returned to life? If not, then when? The answer at this time is: we do not know. And very symmetrically, the same may be said for when the soul presumably enters the body at the beginning of life.

I would also point out that if it is indeed murder to destroy a 1-day old embryo, can the same not be said for the doctors, paras, and EMTs who too presumptuously pronounce a man "dead" and do not struggle in continued effort to revive him? Such questions cannot be riglty evaded if we are expected to accept that a fertilized egg is indeed a fully-fledged human being from the moral and metaphysical standpoints.

Pro-lifers may be precisely right in their opinions, but so may pro-choicers. The real kick in the head would be if both were right... or wrong... at the same time and I do not dismiss either possibility out of hand.

God's miraculous handiwork is not so easily pigeonholed as some would appear to think.


Run a DNA test on the baby she killed.

Were I to plop the unrecognizably mangled end of one of the fingers I amputated when I was 16 on the desk of a "professional", they could run a PCR on that and it, too, would show "human", but is it a human being? If you say "no", then you must answer how it is that you know it such that everyone on the planet would be compelled to accept the assessment as valid and true.

It seems to me that the pro-lifers let their emotions dictate their opinions and beliefs on this matter. Similarly, the pro-choicers most often allow their personal corruption and their lust for zero consequences for their choices to dictate theirs. I see both positions as inherently problematic at best.


It wasn't a part of her it was a separate person.

It was a genetically distinct entity, absolutely true. Whether it was a person is, once again, the $64 question that is as yet nowhere near being answered, to my knowledge.


If the father of the baby had caused it's death he would be prosecuted for murder. If a stranger killed her while she was pregnant, he would be prosecuted for two murders. If a doctor caused it's death he would be guilty of malpractice and negligent homicide. But the mother kills her baby smiling in front of a camera and that's just fine and dandy.

This is an extremely valid point. However, you are spinning it invalidly because once again you assume with no credible authority. That does not of necessity mean you are wrong, but neither does it imply that you are right. What it DOES demonstrate, however, is that the law is hopelessly contradictory, and therefore in error on the subject in that either the killing of a fetus is murder or it is not. If it is, then it is no matter who caused the death, including the mother who has an abortion. If it is not, then the man who causes a fetus to die holds no criminal liability for murder if he causes a miscarriage.

Hammurabi's Code deals with this very topic, which I clearly recall from my history classes during freshmen year in high school. To wit:


"209: If a seignior struck a(nother) seigniorï's daughter and has caused her to have a miscarriage, he shall pay ten shekels of silver for her fetus."



This would tend to lead one to believe that the fetus was not regarded as yet being a human, which seems to be further borne out by the fact that the penalty for murder, while not explicitly addressed in the code, is nonetheless obliquely suggested as having been death for the most part.

The penalty, as cited above, suggests a civil issue and not one of a criminal nature. That does not make it necessarily correct, but it does show that in different times the so-called "authorities" viewed the same things with different eyes from those of many of our own.

This is an emotionally charged issue for both sides and I think each mightbe better served to take several paces back from the discussion... or shoutfest, and consider it more from the side not just of "liberty" offered up in some ill-defined manner, but the very specific tenets of the fundamental principles deriving from the right to life itself. One sees that there are valid arguments to be made in favor of each camp's views, as well as against. That should be a big hint to people that perhaps the truth lies either between the two extreme standpoints, or beyond them both.

osan
05-07-2014, 08:53 PM
Not being God doesn't mean we are separate.

It does in the specific way in which I am using the term.

But let me not get into a religious debate - I'm already well into sin for having gotten into the abortion issue.

osan
05-07-2014, 09:02 PM
I would welcome it. The only people who would consider such a video as progress are psychopaths. Most supporters of abortion "rights" couldn't stomach it.

If by "it" you are referring to a recording of a real procedure from the "doctor's" standpoint, I'd bet money I do not have that you are dead-center on the money. And the simple fact that those squeams would not be able to "take it" in honest fashion, i.e. without putting on bullshit airs depicting the diametric opposite of the gross horror were really experiencing. If you cannot sit through such a video and walk away feeling all springtime fresh and floaty, you are NOT OK with abortion and should at least confess your discomfort honestly to whatever degree and manner you experienced it. But I suspect most would not precisely because come hill or high water they intend on remaining wed to their opinions and will not allow truth to interfere with their masturbatory fantasies.

MichaelDavis
05-07-2014, 09:46 PM
People like her should not reproduce (or get pregnant for that matter).

PRB
05-07-2014, 10:32 PM
How does being "omnipotent" justify anything? That is the 'might makes right' approach that contradicts your other point ("Humans have a natural right to life.").



I agree.

No it doesn't, the Christian worldview is that God makes right, it's circular and axiomatic.

amy31416
05-07-2014, 10:41 PM
I bet he eats at Taco Del Mar a lot.

Is that "Tex Mess?"

(Not sure if you've been here long enough to get the reference.)

Lord Xar
05-07-2014, 11:03 PM
I think she did it to trivial the experience AND trivial the aborting. When you de-personalize it to such an extent, it loses any moral connection it might have.

My guess is you will see more and more of these things cropping up as the meme is pushed that its common place, easily done, no ramifications, and hey 'grab a burger afterwards...'.

PRB
05-07-2014, 11:09 PM
I think she did it to trivial the experience AND trivial the aborting. When you de-personalize it to such an extent, it loses any moral connection it might have.

My guess is you will see more and more of these things cropping up as the meme is pushed that its common place, easily done, no ramifications, and hey 'grab a burger afterwards...'.

Obviously it wasn't a moral issue for her to begin with.

Occam's Banana
05-07-2014, 11:34 PM
There's a whole different world with women that many men aren't aware of.

Awareness and understanding are two different things.
It's a terra incognita (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_incognita) "here there be dragons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_be_dragons)" kind of thing ...

The Rebel Poet
05-08-2014, 12:08 AM
Looks better than the other picture being used, in which she looks positively psychotic. After seeing this picture, I'm starting to believe this all might be some sort of a joke:

http://media3.policymic.com/OTEwMGI1ODRhNiMvVTl5V0dpWjZUakt5VlFRcm9vbHdaZ1hTb0 Q0PS8weDA6MTA0NXg2NTkvODQweDUzMC9zMy5hbWF6b25hd3Mu Y29tL3BvbGljeW1pYy1pbWFnZXMvYTNmZmVkNmFkYjYyNTNiZW JkNmVmYTcxYzQxNmQ2ODJkNTlhYTQ5ZDhiNmIzZDMwYTJmMDE3 YzkxODgzZjI3Zi5qcGc=.jpg

Nobody would possibly use this picture seriously... right?
At least in this pic she doesn't look 65. I'd say it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

amy31416
05-08-2014, 12:15 AM
At least in this pic she doesn't look 65. I'd say it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

We should start a chip-in to get her sterilized. She's got at least 10 more years of fertility.

Spikender
05-08-2014, 02:08 AM
Read about this story when it first dropped, and I still have to wonder...

What's with the white hair? Is she from a Japanese Anime or something?

Either way, I don't have many thoughts on this. I find it humorous that she's some sort of adviser on this yet she didn't use birth control herself. Wise decision, sister.

Occam's Banana
05-08-2014, 02:09 AM
You can research and watch a medical video on nearly all medical procedures - as abortion is a medical procedure, I don't see what the big issue is.

It may be a medical procedure, but it is not merely a medical procedure. Whatever one's position on the issue of abortion is, there is a moral dimension inherent in abortion that does not manifest for most medical procedures qua medical procedures (such as appendectomies, for example). That moral dimension is the source of the "big issue" here. The medical "procedureness" of it - and the utility of educating those upon whom a medical procedure (be it an abortion or, say, an organ transplant) will be carried out - is a secondary (or at least separate) issue.


It seems like most people here see abortion as murder with no gray areas. I don't think it's that simple.

If it is the case that "abortion as murder with no gray areas" is incorrect (or at least not "that simple"), then it is surely no more so than the position that abortion is only a "medical procedure" no different from any other.


I've asked myself if I would care if I was aborted, and I don't see how I would, how would I know?

So what? How would you know if I came up silently behind you and shot you in the head, killing you instantly?
Would you care? How could you, since you would never know? Would this not still be a wrong thing for me to do?

Further to the point, all this assumes that a fetus is not capable of "knowing" what is happening to it. But what if that assumption is wrong? What if it is able to "know" what is happening to it (at least in the sense of "experiencing" if not of "understanding")? And even if it is not, how can such a lack of "knowing" (however defined) on the part of the (alleged) "victim" mitigate an act that might otherwise be considered wrong? Why is a thing not to be considered wrong merely because the (alleged) victim was not aware of the (alleged) victimization?


For one thing the mother has to carry the fetus so there's an obligation that doesn't exist with "normal" murder. [...] Suppose you knew 2 women, one had an abortion and the other murdered her husband in cold blood. Would you feel the same about both? Would you stop associating with a woman if you found out she had an abortion? I wouldn't but I sure as hell would if I found out she killed her husband. I don't think libertarian theory answers the question of abortion. I take a compromise position on this. I think it should be legal for the first trimester.

I disagree. I think libertarian theory does or can have an answer to the question of abortion - but figuring out what that answer is exactly is fraught and problematic. In any case, your compromise position only complicates things and makes the problem even more intractable by introducing a completely arbitrary "cut-off" point - the first trimester. Why not the second trimester? Why not just the first month? Why not all but the last month? Why not [fill in the blank]? If abortion should be considered morally wrong and/or legally actionable after any of these points, then why shouldn't it be considered morally wrong and/or legally actionable before any of them? The insertion of such arbitrariness is not a compromise, it is a cop-out. (And if, as you say, libertarian theory does not answer the question of abortion, then arbitrarily invoked cut-offs certainly will not do so, either).

Whatever abortion is ("murder" or "just a choice" or anything in between) - and whatever position is the proper and correct one to take - it should be applied to the entirety of pregnancy, from the very first moment at which it becomes practicable to do so. (BTW, this is why I reject the "just a choice" position - it makes the moment of birth into yet another arbitrary cut-off point. If abortion is "just a choice" - and if we are to avoid arbitrary cut-offs - then logically, infanticide should be "just a choice" too).

Instead, perhaps abortion should be considered some form of homicide - and whether and to what extent any given case of abortion-as-homicide should be legally actionable or punishable should depend entirely upon the particulars of the case (just as it should for any other form of homicide - murder, manslaughter, justifiable self-defense, accident, etc., etc.). But whatever the appropriate "rules" may be, they should be applied as consistently as possible, and without any arbitrary and contradictory "it's OK before point X but not OK after point X" nonsense.

The Rebel Poet
05-08-2014, 10:49 AM
Whatever abortion is ("murder" or "just a choice" or anything in between) - and whatever position is the proper and correct one to take - it should be applied to the entirety of pregnancy, from the very first moment at which it becomes practicable to do so. (BTW, this is why I reject the "just a choice" position - it makes the moment of birth into yet another arbitrary cut-off point. If abortion is "just a choice" - and if we are to avoid arbitrary cut-offs - then logically, infanticide should be "just a choice" too).

Instead, perhaps abortion should be considered some form of homicide - and whether and to what extent any given case of abortion-as-homicide should be legally actionable or punishable should depend entirely upon the particulars of the case (just as it should for any other form of homicide - murder, manslaughter, justifiable self-defense, accident, etc., etc.). But whatever the appropriate "rules" may be, they should be applied as consistently as possible, and without any arbitrary and contradictory "it's OK before point X but not OK after point X" nonsense.
There ya go.

PRB
05-08-2014, 01:33 PM
So you're saying men are to stupid to understand what defines a woman, or a man as a feminist? I find the assertion ignorant and sexist. I've met plenty of men who call themselves feminists as well.

whenever I hear the word "real" it usually sounds like the person speaking isn't one himself/herself, and is just talking crap telling people what's a real or fake ____.

Philhelm
05-08-2014, 02:07 PM
http://media3.policymic.com/OTEwMGI1ODRhNiMvVTl5V0dpWjZUakt5VlFRcm9vbHdaZ1hTb0 Q0PS8weDA6MTA0NXg2NTkvODQweDUzMC9zMy5hbWF6b25hd3Mu Y29tL3BvbGljeW1pYy1pbWFnZXMvYTNmZmVkNmFkYjYyNTNiZW JkNmVmYTcxYzQxNmQ2ODJkNTlhYTQ5ZDhiNmIzZDMwYTJmMDE3 YzkxODgzZjI3Zi5qcGc=.jpg

She looks like the crazy girlfriend in this picture. It really begs for a caption.

"I've called you 20 times in the last hour and you didn't answer. Are you cheating on me?"

coastie
05-08-2014, 02:24 PM
What a sick, twisted bitch cunt.

I watched the whole thing. I wonder what flavors of SSRI's are in her medicine cabinet?

I know of someone exactly like her. Well, I've known of a LOT of those types of girls, but one personally and in particular that this...thing reminds me of. That woman has had several abortions, and has admitted to them and talked freely about them just as this demon does. It was as if she was just taking out the trash, everyone of them.

What kind of sick fucks work in a place like this, sometimes seeing the same woman over and over again?

I can see this (former) acquaintance smiling, laughing and humming away like this thing was in the video. She eventually had a child with her husband a year or two ago... then left them both shortly after. Seems she didn't get the memo that marriage(usually) = monogamy. She ended up aborting yet another baby that was the product of her marital indiscretions. Maybe she consulted with this animal?

specsaregood
05-08-2014, 02:29 PM
What kind of sick fucks work in a place like this, sometimes seeing the same woman over and over again?


The woman in the OP works at such a place, counseling. Says it all...

coastie
05-08-2014, 02:32 PM
The woman in the OP works at such a place, counseling. Says it all...


I know, I was speaking more of the "medical" personnel and doctors.

Philhelm
05-08-2014, 02:32 PM
What a sick, twisted bitch cunt.

I watched the whole thing. I wonder what flavors of SSRI's are in her medicine cabinet?

I know of someone exactly like her. Well, I've known of a LOT of those types of girls, but one personally and in particular that this...thing reminds me of. That woman has had several abortions, and has admitted to them and talked freely about them just as this demon does. It was as if she was just taking out the trash, everyone of them.

What kind of sick fucks work in a place like this, sometimes seeing the same woman over and over again?

I can see this (former) acquaintance smiling, laughing and humming away like this thing was in the video. She eventually had a child with her husband a year or two ago... then left them both shortly after. Seems she didn't get the memo that marriage(usually) = monogamy. She ended up aborting yet another baby that was the product of her marital indiscretions. Maybe she consulted with this animal?

Was her name Miriam Schiller, by any chance?

coastie
05-08-2014, 02:41 PM
Was her name Miriam Schiller, by any chance?

By chance, no.



:p

Paulbot99
05-08-2014, 10:38 PM
It's propaganda. That's all it is. A real film of abortion would show the actual abortion, not the facial reactions of an abortion counsellor drugged with anaesthetic.

idiom
08-04-2014, 11:35 PM
This is the lamest abortion thread ever. Lets spice it up a lil...

http://i.imgur.com/DxWRjfB.png

lilymc
08-05-2014, 01:32 AM
Nope, sounds fucking crazy. I think this woman has mental issues.

That's what I was thinking too. She sounds mentally ill... The whole thing makes me want to throw up.

RonPaulIsGreat
08-05-2014, 03:55 AM
Abortionists really are into death so much, she compared it to birth in the full article, and kept a picture of the sonogram of the now dead "fetus". Truly disturbing, that woman is evil, she doesn't realize it I'm sure, but she is f*cked out of her stupid little mind. It would be one thing to have an abortion but to cherish it, and save pictures for the "memories", that's insane.

She cashed in her human card, she is walking death.

tod evans
08-05-2014, 04:03 AM
Abortionists really are into death so much, she compared it to birth in the full article, and kept a picture of the sonogram of the now dead "fetus". Truly disturbing, that woman is evil, she doesn't realize it I'm sure, but she is f*cked out of her stupid little mind. It would be one thing to have an abortion but to cherish it, and save pictures for the "memories", that's insane.

She cashed in her human card, she is walking death.

This type of thought process is the end result of public education and the MSM propaganda machine..

I'd bet that a little digging into her upbringing would prove interesting...

Feeding the Abscess
08-05-2014, 04:18 AM
Abortionists really are into death so much, she compared it to birth in the full article, and kept a picture of the sonogram of the now dead "fetus". Truly disturbing, that woman is evil, she doesn't realize it I'm sure, but she is f*cked out of her stupid little mind. It would be one thing to have an abortion but to cherish it, and save pictures for the "memories", that's insane.

She cashed in her human card, she is walking death.

If you're going to type fuck, type fuck. Either don't be PC and censor it, or use another word.

RonPaulIsGreat
08-05-2014, 04:26 AM
If you're going to type fuck, type fuck. Either don't be PC and censor it, or use another word.

Some forums and chatboxes restrict typing fuck out, so I just type f*ck by default. But thank you for telling other people what to do.

Voluntarist
08-05-2014, 05:24 AM
xxxxx

69360
08-06-2014, 04:00 PM
Just type the word out. If the forum doesn't allow the word it will be censored. Dodging the swear filter is against most forum's TOS.