Happy (Belated) 新年! Buy Something Made in China!

[helmuth_hubener]

In the spirit of this (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?412865-Made-in-America) and this (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?429354-Happy-Chinese-National-Day!-Everyone-Buy-Something-From-China!), it's time for us to all show our Pride and Solidarity and Buy Something from China!

http://english.people.com.cn/mediafile/200709/21/F200709211615132696134441.jpg

Celebrate! Made In China! Best manufacturing location on this planet.

Here is one wonderful product that I bought recently:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rKCW9r15L.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IOLY8UK)

And it shipped -- direct all the way from China, to the USA -- for free!! How is that possible? How does that make any sense? But it's true, and in fact very common! The magic of the market. What a terrific world we live in. My hat's off to you, people of China! You make all of our lives better.

So post your purchases!

[tod evans]

Nope.

In fact I'll refrain from shopping this entire week just so I don't have to read the labels to look for the country of origin...

[helmuth_hubener]

Nope. :(


I'll refrain from shopping this entire week Hey, something to be said for that! It's good to have some food storage so you don't have to run out to the store all the time, eh?

[tod evans]

:(

Hey, something to be said for that! It's good to have some food storage so you don't have to run out to the store all the time, eh?

Our farmers market is going full bore, I need no imported foodstuffs...(Until I run out of coffee or spices)

[Anti Federalist]

And everybody wonders why half the country is on relief...

[phill4paul]

I bought a Mexican Sombrero and Serape from China for Cinco de Mayo!

Not really.

[heavenlyboy34]

I have a genuine, bona fide Hulusi and dizi made in China. :) I'd play them for you if you were nearby. :(

[francisco]

I'm 100% for free trade but I am very careful to not consume any food made in China.

In particular, check for country of origin if you buy frozen Tilapia fish.

[francisco]

I have a genuine, bona fide Hulusi and dizi made in China. :) I'd play them for you if you were nearby. :(

What is Hulusi and dizi? :

http://www.easonmusicstore.com/webshaper/store/viewCat.asp?catID=3

[heavenlyboy34]

What is Hulusi and dizi? :

http://www.easonmusicstore.com/webshaper/store/viewCat.asp?catID=3
Traditional Chinese wind instruments. There are some on your link.

This is my dizi:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71gF%2BrxICzL._SL1500_.jpgand my hulusi:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51336eNaKmL._SL1500_.jpg

[PRB]

I actually thought that was a fashionable scarf for a minute, LOL.

Free shipping just means the shipping was neglibly low, so they included it in their price.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm 100% for free trade but I am very careful to not consume any food made in China.

In particular, check for country of origin if you buy frozen Tilapia fish.

Yeah, you really don't want to eat that anyway, regardless of where it comes from.

[FindLiberty]

http://piratenews.org/us-flag-made-in-china.jpg

[Danke]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/dd/dd53a9d737e51940c5498a5a55edc2a42c36f4cd85c8368831 97e52a3806fd13.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQx9WRMOlg0poEoEItvcminq7V6Rd95G JL3nzEAA4Z-6ieN8U_m

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/21/article-0-093A920B000005DC-735_634x453.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

Worker's Paradise, comrade.


http://www.quickmeme.com/img/dd/dd53a9d737e51940c5498a5a55edc2a42c36f4cd85c8368831 97e52a3806fd13.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQx9WRMOlg0poEoEItvcminq7V6Rd95G JL3nzEAA4Z-6ieN8U_m

[donnay]

Just go to Walmart. <s>

[LibForestPaul]

I just checked out some more picks of Foxconn factory. It really looks like a human farm. Pens, stables, feeding areas. Funny and eerie at the same time.

[jclay2]

I just checked out some more picks of Foxconn factory. It really looks like a human farm. Pens, stables, feeding areas. Funny and eerie at the same time.

Don't tell that to any of the apple fanboys.

[phill4paul]

Worker's Paradise, comrade.

One would think that all the regulations and strangulation's that choke American enterprise should also be applied to manufacturer's of imports. Heh, I crack myself up sometimes.

[GunnyFreedom]

Don't tell that to any of the apple fanboys.

OR HP. Or Dell. Or Asus. Or Acer. Or Toshiba. Or Gateway. Or ...

[PRB]

Worker's Paradise, comrade.

are they not allowed to quit?

[muh_roads]

I celebrate this every day. It's not really a choice.

[Danke]

are they not allowed to quit?

You have the right to starve. Not to own property.

[fr33]

There are suicide nets on the golden gate bridge too.

[jclay2]

OR HP. Or Dell. Or Asus. Or Acer. Or Toshiba. Or Gateway. Or ...

Point taken, though, my personal experience is that the lib consumer trendy's just fall over for apple products, despite the suicide nets and sick conditions at foxconn factories.

[GunnyFreedom]

Point taken, though, my personal experience is that the lib consumer trendy's just fall over for apple products, despite the suicide nets and sick conditions at foxconn factories.

Or HP. Or Dell. Or Asus. Or Acer. Or Toshiba. Or Gateway. Or Compaq. Or Sony. Or ...

[MRK]

Chinese factory apologist here.

I've toured some Chinese factories. The ones I was at were pretty cool, sanitary, and had a good work environment, reminiscent of factories and offices in the United States. I can't speak for all factories though, as I only saw a small representation.

I was told the turnover was pretty high for the workers. Longer hours, little pay. After the holiday, large portions of the workers would go back to the country and not return. They made the money they needed and they're moving on. Good for them, they got what the wanted out of the exchange. I'm glad the source of money is there for them when they need it, and I am sure they are too. Prison labor camps are a completely different story.

Also I found the local equivalent to a dollar store today, except it was a ~$0.50 store. All the stuff made in China, Thailand, Vietnam. It was great. Got a bunch of just-good-enough stuff to deck out my apartment, cheapo efficiency style.

[oyarde]

I'm 100% for free trade but I am very careful to not consume any food made in China.

In particular, check for country of origin if you buy frozen Tilapia fish.
I would not eat any farmed tilapia , from anywhere .

[oyarde]

Looking at my recent purchases , none made in China.All US , Canada or Germany .

[helmuth_hubener]

Free shipping just means the shipping was neglibly low, so they included it in their price.

That is precisely what is so remarkable about it! There is no way that they should have been able to produce and package those 40 jumper cables for the $3 I paid for them, much less transport them 7,000 miles!

It's a modern-day miracle.

[helmuth_hubener]

Chinese factory apologist here.

I've toured some Chinese factories. Yes, actually knowing something about a topic, actually having first-hand unfiltered information on which to base one's opinions, does often lead one to have opinions that are, let us say, "off the beaten path."

[helmuth_hubener]

And everybody wonders why half the country is on relief...
Why do you think that is, Anti Federalist?

[heavenlyboy34]

Chinese factory apologist here.

I've toured some Chinese factories. The ones I was at were pretty cool, sanitary, and had a good work environment, reminiscent of factories and offices in the United States. I can't speak for all factories though, as I only saw a small representation.

I was told the turnover was pretty high for the workers. Longer hours, little pay. After the holiday, large portions of the workers would go back to the country and not return. They made the money they needed and they're moving on. Good for them, they got what the wanted out of the exchange. I'm glad the source of money is there for them when they need it, and I am sure they are too. Prison labor camps are a completely different story.

Also I found the local equivalent to a dollar store today, except it was a ~$0.50 store. All the stuff made in China, Thailand, Vietnam. It was great. Got a bunch of just-good-enough stuff to deck out my apartment, cheapo efficiency style.
Thanks for sharing. :) The Eastern cultures (esp. Japan, China, Okinawa) have always valued cleanliness and neatness. The very sanitary environs that are so desirable here in the West now were hip in China (and the rest of the East as the Chinese culture expanded) something like 3000 years before it was in the West.

[FloralScent]

Thanks for sharing. :) The Eastern cultures (esp. Japan, China, Okinawa) have always valued cleanliness and neatness. The very sanitary environs that are so desirable here in the West now were hip in China (and the rest of the East as the Chinese culture expanded) something like 3000 years before it was in the West.

The private homes in China are very neat, the streets, beaches, public restrooms and other public areas are beyond filthy.

[Mani]

The private homes in China are very neat, the streets, beaches, public restrooms and other public areas are beyond filthy.

Hong Kong is an exception to that. The littering fines are quite high and for the most part people respect it. Also there are trash cans EVERYWHERE, so it's not hard to wait a minute during a walk to find the nearest trash cans. And the public facilities, like the subway stations have trashbins every 20 feet, I've never seen litter in any of those areas, ever. The beaches are an exception to that. Some are nice, but some seem to be on the receiving end of garbage that floats in from Mainland or who knows where. You can do a beach clean up and spend the entire day cleaning the beach and 2-3 days later it's filthy again. It's not people bringing that much trash to the beach, it's floating in.

The Malls in Hong Kong are definitely nicer than anything in the USA. Cleaner, Nicer, and more beautiful than anything the U.S. has to offer. I even like the SM Malls in the Philippines, they are on par if not better than a lot of the USA malls.

Regarding China Factories, my friend is in the clothing industry for a well known brand and visits factories in China all the time, pretty much that's her job, I think 4-5 times a month she's in China inspecting a factory. She's never seen those suicide nets (she said it's illegal to have more than 5 stories building) or any of this stuff disgusting slave labour stuff (not saying it doesn't exist). Different industry then technology, but China does make everything.

MRK is right about the long hours and quitting come holiday time. When Chinese New year rolls around the factories close for 2 weeks to a month across the mainland. Many people are not from the area they work in. Everyone goes back home to their villages and/or home cities which could be hundreds of miles away and more than 30% don't come back. It's very common to have to replace a good chunk of the workforce when things open up again.

Not that these places are bright and cheery, she's encountered the filthy factory, but difficult to label all China factories as slave sweat shops.

[FloralScent]

Hong Kong is an exception to that.

Absolutely. Do you currently reside in Hong Kong?

[helmuth_hubener]

The private homes in China are very neat, the streets, beaches, public restrooms and other public areas are beyond filthy.

Tragedy of the... what was that again?

[FloralScent]

Tragedy of the... what was that again?

I have no idea what you're getting at.

[helmuth_hubener]

I have no idea what you're getting at.
Really? I figured that was your point (at least a point, along with simply sharing accurate information).

People take care of things they own.

Unowned resources which the state is in charge of maintaining, surprise, surprise, do not get maintained nearly as well.

Disneyland is clean and safe. Central Park is not.

This is the Tragedy of the Commons.

[FloralScent]

Really? I figured that was your point (at least a point, along with simply sharing accurate information).

People take care of things they own.

Unowned resources which the state is in charge of maintaining, surprise, surprise, do not get maintained nearly as well.

Disneyland is clean and safe. Central Park is not.

This is the Tragedy of the Commons.

I'm sure this is part of the problem but there's got to more to it. There are many industrialized nations where you don't see this.

[helmuth_hubener]

I'm sure this is part of the problem but there's got to more to it. There are many industrialized nations where you don't see this.

Go back to Paris in 1700 and then tell me about it. Or London. Street=sewer. Filth everywhere. Not pretty.

There's a stage of "growing pains" on the way to becoming the super-abundant, pristine, mind-bogglingly rich utopia that is a developed industrial nation. Give them time. Worrying about the cleanliness and ambiance of your surroundings is a luxury of the rich.

[FloralScent]

Go back to Paris in 1700 and then tell me about it. Or London. Street=sewer. Filth everywhere. Not pretty.

There's a stage of "growing pains" on the way to becoming the super-abundant, pristine, mind-bogglingly rich utopia that is a developed industrial nation. Give them time. Worrying about the cleanliness and ambiance of your surroundings is a luxury of the rich.

I'm sure that's the case. </unintentional derail>

[MRK]

I only went to 5 cities in China. I didn't go too rural and stuck around cities, highways, and rail/airport transportation centers most of the time.

However, I noticed all of them were significantly cleaner than many cities in Southeast Asia. Granted, much of the country is a big construction zone, so parts were in temporary organized chaos, but there wasn't much trash in the streets in comparison that I can remember. There was probably 10 to even 20 times less trash in the streets than Southeast Asian cities I've been to.

The gray haze of smog however, was omnipresent every day anywhere away from the coast.

With regards to Foxconn, don't forget that it is actually a Taiwanese-owned company. One of the companies whose factories I looked at was also a Taiwanese-owned electronics manufacturer, and it looked like it had really great working conditions. Nicer than many of the places I've worked at in the US to be perfectly honest, although it's hard to compare apples to apples because it was a different industry than electronics manufacturing.

[oyarde]

When I buy something , I tend to think about the quality of the product. As an example , Chinese tools are pretty shitty , probably not as bad as the tilapia and shrimp , LOL.

[Mani]

Absolutely. Do you currently reside in Hong Kong?


Yes.


As an aside. I spoke to my friend and she said in general she finds the factories in China better in terms of being clean and the treatment of workers.


The worse factories are in South Asia: Bangladesh, India, etc.

She said in fact, some of those countries the children have little choice but either work in a garment factory or become a sex slave. :eek: Not a lot of options. Yuck.


Although One nice thing she told me. There's a factory in Indonesia that's so clean you can eat the floor off of it. And the owner of the factory takes care of all the ladies and buys them all a moped or scooter once they are hired. He really takes care of his staff.

So there are some good stories.

But on the whole, other parts of Asia have much worse conditions then what you see in China (at least in the garment industry).

[oyarde]

I have consulted my magic eight ball and we both agree I will not be buying anything from China this week as well .

[helmuth_hubener]

I have consulted my magic eight ball and we both agree I will not be buying anything from China this week as well .
You are hurting the Economy!

[Anti Federalist]

Why do you think that is, Anti Federalist?

Because of insane tariff, regulatory, monetary and taxation policy that favors offshore production instead of domestic production that produces and encourages middle class job growth.

Apparently everybody is OK with that, that cheap Chinese shit is better than having a job, a nice place to live or dealing with having half the country on the dole and Depression era unemployment.

The answer is obvious, the only thing left open for discussion is whether this was done deliberately with malicious intent, (I think so) or whether it just happened.

[tod evans]

You are hurting the Economy!

I make it a conscious decision to hurt the import/retail economy every chance I get!

I personally don't want to support the large group of people who profit from those shiploads of bygone jobs.

Many, many will continue to advocate for cheap/offshore production and that's their prerogative, I happen to view those consumers as opportunists, while I view those who facilitate and profit from these transactions as being no better than the Roman hierarchy who played while others toiled....

We both know how well you're able to articulate your justification, I just don't buy it.

[FloralScent]

I make it a conscious decision to hurt the import/retail economy every chance I get!

I personally don't want to support the large group of people who profit from those shiploads of bygone jobs.

Many, many will continue to advocate for cheap/offshore production and that's their prerogative, I happen to view those consumers as opportunists, while I view those who facilitate and profit from these transactions as being no better than the Roman hierarchy who played while others toiled....

We both know how well you're able to articulate your justification, I just don't buy it.

My son currently lives in China. We were Skyping the other day and he mentioned he had just bought some new towel racks for his apartment. I asked him if they were made in the U.S.A., then we both had a good laugh.

[helmuth_hubener]

I happen to view those consumers as opportunists, What do you think about the producers who make it happen? Oh...:


while I view those who facilitate and profit from these transactions as being no better than the Roman hierarchy who played while others toiled....I'm taking it being a Roman hierarch is a bad thing. ;(


We both know how well you're able to articulate your justification, I just don't buy it. Hey, I respect that. We've all got to make a living, though!

[helmuth_hubener]

Because of insane tariff, regulatory, monetary and taxation policy that favors offshore production instead of domestic production that produces and encourages middle class job growth.

I am agreed with you on 3 out of 4.

Regulations: Bad. You think the gov't is too big and doing too much in this area, and I agree. It definitely is. Government doesn't work. Its interventions in the form of regulation strangle and distort the market, increase problems, and restrict freedom in an immoral way.

Monetary Policy: Bad. You think the gov't is too big and doing too much in this area, and I agree. It definitely is. Government doesn't work. Its interventions in the form of monetary policy strangle and distort the market (by corrupting the very basis of most market transactions: money!), increase problems, and restrict freedom in an immoral way.

Taxation: Bad. You think the gov't is too big and doing too much in this area, and I agree. It definitely is. Government doesn't work. Its interventions in the form of monetary policy strangle and distort the market, increase problems, and restrict freedom in an immoral way, namely, by robbing people of the fruits of their labors.

Tariffs: Taking your statement literally, it could be 4 out of 4. The US tariff policy is bad and insane, I agree. But I know what you meant. You think it is bad for the opposite reason from me. You think the gov't is not big enough and not doing enough in this area. You think they ought to be bigger and do more. You think that this is the one area, the one exception, where government does work. You think they ought to crack down and arrest people who are trying to freely transact commerce with other men. You think that not nearly enough of the fruits of their labors are being robbed from them. I, of course, happen to respectfully disagree. You see, I oppose robbery, thuggery, and big government. I support freedom.

[tod evans]

What do you think about the producers who make it happen? Oh...:

I harbor no ill will toward any working man...


I'm taking it being a Roman hierarch is a bad thing. ;(

Actually it's proven to be quite good for a few...........for a while...


Hey, I respect that. We've all got to make a living, though!

I'd prefer to make my living free from governments constraints....

[helmuth_hubener]

I'd prefer to make my living free from governments constraints....
Not possible, my friend. Unfortunately.

Even for those like you flying "under the radar," the gov't is without a doubt restricting you, by preventing you from flying above the radar.

[Anti Federalist]

Tariffs: Taking your statement literally, it could be 4 out of 4. The US tariff policy is bad and insane, I agree. But I know what you meant. You think it is bad for the opposite reason from me. You think the gov't is not big enough and not doing enough in this area. You think they ought to be bigger and do more. You think that this is the one area, the one exception, where government does work. You think they ought to crack down and arrest people who are trying to freely transact commerce with other men. You think that not nearly enough of the fruits of their labors are being robbed from them. I, of course, happen to respectfully disagree. You see, I oppose robbery, thuggery, and big government. I support freedom.

I prefer a tariff to conform to, rather than sending an invading army to bring some other into compliance with us.

[helmuth_hubener]

I prefer a tariff to conform to, rather than sending an invading army to bring some other into compliance with us.

How would either one of those make sense?

I do not happen to think that siccing squads of Dock Cops rob, tackle, pepper-spray and shoot dead honest working men merely trying to keep the fruits of their honest labor is a very nice thing to do. It is a very not nice thing to do.

In fact, it's a sick and evil thing to do. And it's a sick and evil thing to advocate. That is why I don't advocate it. :)

But, to each his own!

[Anti Federalist]

How would either one of those make sense?

I do not happen to think that siccing squads of Dock Cops rob, tackle, pepper-spray and shoot dead honest working men merely trying to keep the fruits of their honest labor is a very nice thing to do. It is a very not nice thing to do.

In fact, it's a sick and evil thing to do. And it's a sick and evil thing to advocate. That is why I don't advocate it. :)

But, to each his own!

Congratulations on having the impeccable moral high ground and calling me out for the evil fascist that I am.

[helmuth_hubener]

Congratulations on having the impeccable moral high ground and calling me out for the evil fascist that I am.

Are you? I thought you were a non-fascist on 3 out of the 4 issues you mentioned above, all of which are very important issues.

No, I think you are a supporter of freedom. You just happen to oppose freedom in this one case, for what you think are very good reasons. "The end justifies the means," I venture to say, am I right?

Of course, this egg-breaking omelet making reasoning also is the rationale and justification for why it's acceptable to have Drug Cops kicking in the doors of, beating, and occasionally killing innocent people. That doesn't mean that you're wrong. Just pointing out the similarity in excuse-invention.

[helmuth_hubener]

I hope everyone enjoyed some Chinese goodness! Just remember: there is plenty more where that came from!

[tod evans]

I just drove my friends German sportscar into the service center here in the Ozarks that's owned by a Limey working under a visa.....

No Chinese goods involved in that transaction...

[helmuth_hubener]

I just drove my friends German sportscar into the service center here in the Ozarks that's owned by a Limey working under a visa.....

No Chinese goods involved in that transaction...
Ah, ha ha ha ha ha!

Should I disabuse him, folks?

Nah.... Good job, tod! Way to avoid all those evil Chinese parts manufacturers and stick with only pure German things made by the Master Race, 100% purely in the Fatherland, unpolluted with anything that ever touched those filthy Asian shores. http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/hand-gestures/shush-smiley-emoticon.gif

[eduardo89]

I just drove my friends German sportscar into the service center here in the Ozarks that's owned by a Limey working under a visa.....

No Chinese goods involved in that transaction...

Wanna bet there were? Even Mercedes, BMW, and Audi produce cars in China nowadays and I bet you many of the components on their non-China manufactured vehicles are made in China.

[tod evans]

Educate me.............It's a '96 SL600 V-12

What do you believe is made in China?

[eduardo89]

Educate me.............It's a '96 SL600 V-12

What do you believe is made in China?

The radio, antenna, alternator, battery, headlights, airbag sensors, transmission electrical components, fuel level sensor, fuel pressure sensor, starter solenoid, alarm system, key fob, door locking system, plastic buttons in the center console, oil pump...

Any one of those might be made in China or at the very least with materials/components that are made in China.

[tod evans]

The radio, antenna, alternator, battery, headlights, airbag sensors, transmission electrical components, fuel level sensor, fuel pressure sensor, starter solenoid, alarm system, key fob, door locking system, plastic buttons in the center console, oil pump...

Any one of those might be made in China or at the very least with materials/components that are made in China.

You're grasping............

[eduardo89]

You're grasping............

No, just giving a small sample of parts that have a high chance of being made in China.

[tod evans]

No, just giving a small sample of parts that have a high chance of being made in China.

I'm not convinced that on a high end Mercedes the factory would sub parts to China.

[eduardo89]

I'm not convinced that on a high end Mercedes the factory would sub parts to China.

Mercedes produces cars almost from scratch in China nowadays.

The made in China components will generally be small parts, plastics, and electronic components, even on non-Chinese built cars.

[tod evans]

Mercedes produces cars almost from scratch in China nowadays.

The made in China components will generally be small parts, plastics, and electronic components, even on non-Chinese built cars.

The car in question is a '96......

I know they've set up factories in China to deal with their new found wealth but the question is when did they do that....

And if prior to '96 would Mercedes have taken a chance with Chinese parts on a flagship car....

[helmuth_hubener]

Just open the hood, Tod. It really isn't all that complicated. Open the hood and point to a small component at random. Chances are: it was not made in Germany.

Want something specific? Here, try this one: the ignition coil. If you still have access to the car, go open it up and look at the ignition coil. I believe you will find it was made in China.

Something like a car is not made in one specific place. It is Made by The World.

You see, even though the ignition coil is stamped "Made in China," actually, it was made by The World. The ignition coil, simple as it is, has various different components and processes and raw materials involved. The injection mold machine that made the plastic housing is likely a German or American machine. The various little components came from who-knows-where. Etc.

Here, check out this short talk:

https://mises.org/media/1871/The-New-Global-Marketplace

[Anti Federalist]

Still shouting hosannas to Communism, with Chinese aspects, here, I see.

Carry on.

[eduardo89]

Still shouting hosannas to Communism, with Chinese aspects, here, I see.

Carry on.

:confused:

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--gak-j92v--/194trtw9lwx2hjpg.jpg

[helmuth_hubener]

Still shouting hosannas to Communism, with Chinese aspects, here, I see.

Carry on.

Tod is no Communist. Just because I disagree with him on some few things here and there does not mean he's a Communist. I resent you coming in here and implying that he is a Communist.

[helmuth_hubener]

As a matter of fact, Tod and I agree on virtually everything. We even agree on this very issue, politically, since unlike you, Tod believes that free men should be free to buy whatever they want from whomever they want. Our disagreement is a mere minor issue of personal preference -- he prefers to not buy from China -- that I'm just teasing him about.

But I would ardently defend his right to assert his buying preferences from the likes of would-be trade controllers like you!

So I would ask that you take back your inexplicable comments about Communism.

[Anti Federalist]

As a matter of fact, Tod and I agree on virtually everything. We even agree on this very issue, politically, since unlike you, Tod believes that free men should be free to buy whatever they want from whomever they want. Our disagreement is a mere minor issue of personal preference -- he prefers to not buy from China -- that I'm just teasing him about.

But I would ardently defend his right to assert his buying preferences from the likes of would-be trade controllers like you!

So I would ask that you take back your inexplicable comments about Communism.

China is a one party communist state.


Most, but not all, positions of significant power in the state structure and in the military are occupied by members of the Communist Party of China which is controlled by the Politburo Standing Committee of the Communist Party of China, a group of 4 to 9 people, usually all older men, who make all decisions of national significance. As the role of the military is to enforce these decisions, the support of the PLA is important in maintaining Party rule.

China's dominant position today is due in no small part to Chairman Mao's "Great Leap Forward".


The Great Leap Forward (simplified Chinese: 大跃进; traditional Chinese: 大躍進; pinyin: Dà yuè jìn) of the People's Republic of China (PRC) was an economic and social campaign by the Communist Party of China (CPC) from 1958 to 1961. The campaign was led by Mao Zedong and aimed to rapidly transform the country from an agrarian economy into a communist society through rapid industrialization and collectivization. The campaign caused the Great Chinese Famine.

The Great Leap ended in catastrophe, resulting in tens of millions of deaths.[3] Estimates of the death toll range from 18 million[4] to 45 million,[5] with estimates by demographic specialists ranging from 18 million to 32.5 million.[4] Historian Frank Dikötter asserts that "coercion, terror, and systematic violence were the very foundation of the Great Leap Forward" and it "motivated one of the most deadly mass killings of human history".[6]

While cited as a "failure" what it did was radically change the face of China's economy from rural agrarian to industrial.

The powers that be were so impressed with Mao's "Triumph of the Will" that they sent the twin snakes, Kissinger and Nixon, to hand the economy of the United States and it's currency to him on a silver platter.

http://petrotimes.vn/stores/news_dataimages/duyhung/052014/14/14/thumbnail/Nixon_Mao_1972_02_29.png

Tariffs are Constitutionally permitted, and funded the FedGov without income taxation up until 1916.

Now, hurrah for the day when there is no government, and no constitution.

But that day is long off.

So, in the meantime, a government that is funded by tariffs is small and least intrusive.

So, if you want to celebrate buying cheap from an economy built on the corpses of 50 million people murdered by government, specifically for the purpose of creating the economy you are celebrating, be my guest.

Excuse me for not taking part.

[kcchiefs6465]

Being able to buy products more cheaply positively affects the economy. More importantly it is a positive for the individual themselves. Work does not equal wealth. That is, more labor for the same amount of service or commodity is not a net positive. It actually subtracts from prosperity in that it is by and large misused time and as well, the person who buys a given product more cheaply because another land was afforded greater ability to produce said product, be it through a friendly jobs market or naturally as is often the case (try growing a cocoa tree in Ohio, for instance) has money or time to spend how they wish. Now when labor conditions are particularly heinous (slavery, etc.) one has the right (and moral obligation, in my personal opinion) to boycott said product and raise awareness on the issue or free the person under restraint. Free trade, that is, trade absent protectionist policies ensures the greatest prosperity to be had is had. Protectionism is a large reason why jobs are relatively hard to come by.

AF, I have a short story for you to read written by Frederic Bastiat. It's a good read.



Protectionism, or the Three Aldermen

A DEMONSTRATION IN FOUR SCENES

SCENE I

The scene takes place in the mansion of Peter, an alderman. The window looks out upon a beautiful grove of trees; three gentlemen are seated at a table near a blazing fire.

PETER: I must say, there is nothing like a good fire after a satisfying meal. You have to admit that it is very agreeable indeed. But, alas, how many good people, like the Roi d'Yvetot


Are blowing on their fingers
From lack of firewood!*

[* Reference to the most famous of all the popular songs of Pierre-Jean de Béranger
(1780-1857).--TRANSLATOR.]

Unfortunate creatures! A charitable idea that must be an inspiration from Heaven has just occurred to me. You see those fine trees? I want them cut down and the wood distributed among the poor.

PAUL AND JOHN: What! Free of charge?
PETER: Not exactly. My good deeds would soon be at an end if I dissipated my estate that way. I estimate my grove of trees to be worth a thousand livres*, by chopping them down, I shall get a good deal more for them.

[*An old French monetary unit, originally equal to the value of a pound of silver, but gradually reduced and finally replaced by the franc--TRANSLATOR.]

PAUL: Not so. Your wood as it stands is worth more than that of the neighboring forests, because it performs services that the latter cannot perform. Once your trees are chopped down, they will be good only for firewood, like the rest, and not be worth a denier* more per load.

[*A coin of minor denomination, worth about three-fifths of a sou, deriving from the Roman denarius, in use up to the French Revolution.--TRANSLATOR.]

PETER: Ho, ho! Mr. Theorist, you are forgetting that I am a practical man. I should think my reputation as a speculator well enough established to prevent me from being taken for a fool. Do you think I am going to amuse myself by selling my wood at the same price as floated wood?*

[*Wood for fuel used to be floated down the Seine into Paris.--TRANSLATOR]

PAUL: You will simply have to.
PETER: How naive you are! And suppose I stop floated wood from reaching Paris?
PAUL: That would change matters. But how would you go about it?
PETER: Here is the whole secret. You know that floated wood pays ten sous a load on entering the city. Tomorrow I persuade the aldermen to raise the duty to 100, 200, 300 livres--in short, high enough to keep even a single log from getting in. Now do you understand? If the good people do not want to die of cold, they will have no alternative but to come to my woodyard. They will scramble for my wood, I shall sell it for its weight in gold, and this well-organized charitable undertaking will put me in a position to conduct others.
PAUL: What a wonderful project It gives me the idea for another just as efficacious.
JOHN: Tell us what it is. Does it also involve philanthropy?
PAUL: What do you think of this butter from Normandy?
JOHN: Excellent.
PAUL: Well, maybe! It seemed tolerable to me a moment ago. But do you not find that it burns your throat? I intend to produce a better quality in Paris. I shall have four or five hundred cows and arrange to distribute milk, butter, and cheese among the poor.
PETER AND JOHN: What! As charity?
PAUL: Nonsense! Let us always maintain an appearance of charity. It has so fair a face that even its mask is an excellent passport. I shall give my butter to the people, and the people will give me their money. Do you call that selling?
JOHN: Not according to Le Bourgeois gentilhomme;* but whatever you may choose to call it, you will ruin yourself. Can Paris compete with Normandy in the raising of cows?

[*In Moliére's The Would-Be Gentleman, a flatterer assures M. Jourdain that his father did not "sell" dry goods; he merely "gave them away for money," thus "proving" that he was a noble and not a bourgeois.--TRANSLATOR.]

PAUL: I shall gain the advantage by saving the costs of transportation.
JOHN: All right. But even after paying these costs, the Normans can still beat the Parisians*.

[*There is a pun here almost impossible to render into English. The French word battre, which means "beat," also means "churn."--TRANSLATOR]

PAUL: Do you call it beating someone to let him have things at low prices?
JOHN: That is the customary term. The fact remains that you will be the one who is beaten.
PAUL: Yes, like Don Quixote. The blows will fall on Sancho. John, my friend, you forget the octroi.
JOHN: The octroil What connection does it have with your butter?
PAUL: From tomorrow on, I shall demand protection; I shall persuade the commune to keep butter from Normandy and Brittany from entering Paris. Then the people will either have to get along without it or buy mine, and at my price, too.
JOHN: I must say, gentlemen, I feel myself quite caught up in the wave of your humanitarianism. "One learns to howl," says the proverb, "by living with the Wolves." My mind is made up. No one shall say that I am an unworthy alderman. Peter, this crackling fire has set your soul aflame; Paul, this butter has activated your intellectual faculties; and now I feel that this piece of salt pork is likewise sharpening my wits. Tomorrow I shall vote, and have others vote, for the exclusion of pigs, living or dead; that done, I shall build superb pens in the heart of Paris.


For the unclean animal forbidden to the Hebrews.

I shall become a swineherd and pork butcher. Let us see how the good people of Paris will avoid coming to provision themselves at my shop.
PETER:Not so fast, gentlemen. If you increase the price of butter and salt pork in this way, you will cut beforehand the profit I was expecting from my wood.
PAUL: Well, my project will no longer be so wonderful either, if you levy tribute on me for your logs and your hams.
JOHN: And what shall I gain by overcharging you for my sausages, if you overcharge me for ******s and for the butter on my bread?
PETER: Well, there is no reason why we should quarrel about this. Let us rather co-operate with one another and make reciprocal concessions. Besides, it is not good to consult only one's own self-interest; one should consider mankind as well. Must we not make sure the people are warm?
PAUL: Quite true. And the people must have butter to spread on their bread.
JOHN: Undoubtedly. And a bit of bacon for their stew.
ALL: Hurrah for charity! Long live humanitarianism! Tomorrow we shall take the City Hall by storm.
PETER: Ah! I forgot. One more word; it is essential. My friends,
in this age of selfishness, the world is distrustful; and the purest intentions are often misinterpreted. Paul, you plead the case for local wood; John, you defend local butter; and I, for my part, shall devote myself to the protection of the local hog. It is well to forestall evil-minded suspicions.
PAUL AND JOHN (leaving): Upon my word, there's a clever man!

Scene II

Meeting of the Board of Aldermen

PAUL: My dear colleagues, every day large quantities of wood enter Paris, and as a result large sums of money leave the city. At this rate we shall all be ruined in three years, and then what will become of the poor? [Cheers.] Let us ban all foreign wood. It is not on my behalf that I am speaking, because all the wood I own would not make one toothpick. Hence, I am completely free from any personal interest in regard to this question. [Hear! Hear!] But Peter here has a grove of trees and will guarantee to supply fuel for our fellow citizens, who will no longer be dependent upon the charcoal sellers of the Yonne.*

[*A French department southeast of Paris, situated on the Yonne River, a tributary of the Seine.--TRANSLATOR.]

Has it ever occurred to you that we run the danger of dying of cold if the owners of foreign forests took it into their heads not to deliver wood to Paris any longer? Therefore, let us ban their wood. By this means we shall prevent the draining away of our money, create a domestic woodcutting industry, and open to our workers a new source of employment and income. [Applause.]
JOHN: I support this proposal by the distinguished previous
speaker, who is so humanitarian, and, as he himself said, so completely disinterested. It is high time we put a stop to this brazen laissez passer, which has brought unbridled competition into our market, so that there is not one province whose situation is at all advantageous for the production of any commodity whatsoever that does not flood us with it, undersell us, and destroy Parisian industry. It is the duty of the government to equalize the conditions of production by the imposition of judiciously selected duties, to admit only goods that cost more outside Paris than they do within the city, and in this way to extricate us from an unequal contest. How, for instance, can we be expected to produce milk and butter in Paris in competition with Brittany and Normandy? Just remember, gentlemen, that it costs the Bretons less for their land, their fodder, and their labor. Is it not only common sense to equalize opportunities by a protective town tariff? I demand that the duty on milk and butter be raised to 1000%, and higher if need be. Breakfast may cost the people a little more on that account, but how their wages will go up as well! We shall see barns and dairies rising, creameries multiply, new industries established. It is not that I stand to profit in the least from the adoption of my proposal. I am not a cowherd, nor do I wish to be one. My only desire is to be helpful to the toiling masses. [Cheers and applause.]
PETER: I am delighted to find that this assembly includes statesmen so pure in heart, so enlightened, so dedicated to the best interests of the people. [Cheers.] I admire their disinterestedness, and I can do no better than imitate their noble example. I second their motion, and I add to it a motion of my own to prohibit the entry
of pigs from Poitou.*

[A province of France, southwest of Paris.--TRANSLATOR]

It is not that I have any desire to become a swineherd or a pork butcher; in that case, my conscience would make it my duty to remain silent. But is it not disgraceful, gentlemen, that we should be forced to pay tribute to these Poitou peasants, who have the audacity to come right into our own market and seize possession of an industry that we ourselves could carry on; and who, after flooding us with their sausages and hams, take perhaps nothing from us in return? In any case, who will tell us
that the balance of trade is not in their favor and that we are not obliged to pay them the balance due in hard cash? Is it not clear that if this industry were transplanted from Poitou to Paris, it would create jobs for Parisian workingmen? And then, gentlemen, is it not quite possible, as M. Lestiboudois so well observed, that
we may be buying salt pork from Poitou, not with what we sell them in return, but with our capital? How long can we go on doing that? Let us not, then, allow a pack of greedy, grasping, false-hearted competitors to come here and undersell us and make it impossible for us to produce the same commodities ourselves. Aldermen, Paris has put her trust in us; it is for us to justify that trust. The people are without jobs; it is for us to create jobs for them; and if salt pork costs them a little more, we shall at least have the consciousness of having sacrificed our personal interests to those of the masses, as every right-thinking alderman should do.
[Thunderous applause.]
A VOICE: I hear a great deal of talk about the poor; but, under the pretext of giving them jobs, you begin by depriving them of what is worth more than the job itself-wood, butter, and soup.
PETER, PAUL, AND JOHN: Put our motions to a vote! Put them to a vote! Away with utopians, theorists, abstract thinkers! Put them to a vote! Put them to a vote! [The three motions are carried.]

Scene III

SCENE 3.

Twenty Years Later: Jacques Bonhomme and His Son.

THE SON: Father, make up your mind to it; we must leave Paris. We cannot live here any longer. There is no work to be had, and everything is frightfully expensive.
THE FATHER: My son, you do not know what a wrench it is for one to leave the place where one was born.
THE SON: It is even worse to starve to death.
THE FATHER: Go, my son, seek a more hospitable land. As for myself, I shall not leave this place, where your mother, your brothers, and your sisters are buried. I long to find at last by their side the rest that has been denied me in this city of desolation.
THE SON: Take heart, dear father; we shall find work somewhere else--in Poitou, in Normandy, or in Brittany. It is said that all the industries of Paris are gradually moving to these distant provinces.
THE FATHER: That is quite understandable. Being unable any longer to sell us wood and provisions, the people of these provinces have ceased to produce beyond their own needs; whatever time and capital they have available they devote to making for themselves what we once used to furnish them with.
THE SON: Just as at Paris they have stopped making fine furniture and beautiful clothing, and have turned to planting trees and raising pigs and cows. Although still young, I have lived to see great stores, elegant neighborhoods, and busy docks along the banks of the Seine overgrown with weeds and underbrush.
THE FATHER: While the hinterland is being covered with cities, Paris is becoming a bare field. What an appalling reversal! And it took just three misguided aldermen, helped by public ignorance, to bring this frightful calamity upon us.
THE SON: Tell me its history, Father.
THE FATHER: It is really quite simple. Under the pretext of establishing three new branches of industry in Paris and of thereby increasing job opportunities for the working classes, these men had the importation of wood, butter, and meat prohibited. They arrogated to themselves the right to provide their fellow citizens with these commodities. First, their prices rose to exorbitant heights. No one was earning enough to afford them, and the small number of those who could obtain some, by spending all their earnings on them, were no longer able to buy anything else. This at once spelled the doom of all the industries in Paris, and the end came all the more quickly as the provinces no longer provided our city with a market for its products. Poverty, death, and emigration began to depopulate Paris.
THE SON: And when is this going to stop?
THE FATHER: When Paris has become a forest and a prairie.
THE SON: The three aldermen must have made a great deal of money.
THE FATHER: At first they realized enormous profits; but in the long run they were engulfed in the general misery.
THE SON: How is that possible?
THE FATHER: This ruin you are looking at was once a splendid mansion encircled by a beautiful grove of trees. If Paris had continued to expand, Squire Peter would get more in rent from it than he could sell it for today.
THE SON: How can that be, since he no longer has any competition?
THE FATHER: Competition among sellers has disappeared, but competition among buyers is disappearing every day and will continue to disappear until Paris has become open country and the brushwood of Squire Peter has no more value than an equal area of brushwood in the forest of Bondy.*

[*A forest just north of Paris,notorious as a resort of thieves.--TRANSLATOR]

It is thus that monopoly, like every injustice, carries within it the seeds of its own destruction.
THE SON: That does not seem altogether clear to me, but what is incontestable is the decadence of Paris. Is there, then, no wayof repealing this iniquitous law that Peter and his colleagues had the town council adopt twenty years ago?
THE FATHER: I am going to tell you a secret. I am staying in Paris to do just that. I shall call the people to my assistance. It depends upon them to restore the town tariff duties to their former basis, to rid them of the deadly principle that was grafted onto them and that has continued to vegetate there like a parasitical fungus.
THE SON: You are sure to succeed in this from the very first.
THE FATHER: Oh, on the contrary, the task is difficult and toilsome. Peter, Paul, and .John understand one another wonderfully well. They are ready to do anything rather than permit wood, butter, and meat to enter Paris. They have on their side the people themselves, who see clearly the jobs that these three protected industries give them, who know how many woodcutters and cowherds they give employment to, but who cannot have as clear an idea of how much employment would develop in the spacious atmosphere of free trade.
THE SON: If that is all they need, you will enlighten them.
THE FATHER: My child, at your age one never lacks confidence. If I write, the people will not read what I have to say; for with all the hours they must work to eke out their miserable existence, they have no time left for reading. If I speak, the aldermen will shut my mouth. Thus, the people will long continue in their disastrously mistaken ways, and the political parties that place their trust in arousing popular passions will concern themselves far less with dispelling error than with exploiting the prevailing prejudices. Therefore, I shall have on my hands at one and the same time the two most powerful forces of our age--the people and the political parties. Oh! I see a frightful storm ready to burst over the head of anyone bold enough to venture a protest against an iniquity so deeply rooted in this country.
THE SON: You will have justice and truth on your side.
THE FATHER: And they will have force and calumny on theirs. If only I were young again! But age and suffering have exhausted my strength.
THE SON: Well, father, dedicate what strength you still have to the service of your country. Begin this work of liberation and leave me as my legacy the task of completing it.

Scene IV

Popular Uprising

JACQUES BONHOMME: Parisians, let us demand the reform of the town tariff duties; let us insist that they be restored to their original purpose. Let every citizen be free to buy wood, butter, and meat wherever he sees fit.
THE PEOPLE: Long live freedom!
PETER:Parisians, do not let yourselves be misled by that word. What difference does the freedom to buy make to you, if you do not have the means? And how can you have the means, if you do not have a job? Can Paris produce wood as cheaply as the forest of Bondy, meat as inexpensively as Poitou, butter as easily as Normandy? If you open your gates freely to these competitive products, what will become of the cowherds, the woodcutters, and the pork butchers? They cannot do without protection.
THE PEOPLE: Long live protection!
JACQUES BONHOMME: Protection! But is it you, the workers, who are being protected? Do you not compete with one another? Then let the wood dealers experience competition in their turn. They have no right to raise the price of their wood by law unless they also raise wage rates by law. Are you no longer in love with equality? THE PEOPLE: Long live equality!
PETER: Do not listen to this agitator. We have, it is true, raised the price of wood, of meat, and of butter; but we have done so in order to be able to give good wages to the workers. We are prompted by motives of charity.
THE PEOPLE: Long live charity!
JACQUES BONHOMME: Use the town tariff duties, if you can, to raise wages, or else do not use them to raise commodity prices. What the people of Paris demand is not charity, but justice.
THE PEOPLE: Long live justice!
PETER: It is precisely high commodity prices that make for high wages.
THE PEOPLE: Long live high prices!
JACQUES BONHOMME: If butter is dear, it is not because you are paying high wages to the workers; it is not even because you are making big profits; it is solely because Paris is ill-situated for that industry, because you insisted that people produce in the city what they should be producing in the country, and in the country what used to be produced in the city. It is not that there are more jobs for the people, but only jobs of a different kind. It is not that their wages are higher, but that the prices at which they buy things are no longer as low.
THE PEOPLE: Long live low prices!
PETER:This man is seducing you with his honeyed words. Let us put the question in all its simplicity. Is it not true that if we grant entry to butter, wood, and meat, we shall be flooded with them? Shall we not perish of the surfeit? There is, thus, no other way of saving ourselves from this new species of invasion than by slamming the gates in its face, and no other way of maintaining commodity prices than by producing an artificial scarcity.
SOME FEW SCATTERED VOICES: Long live scarcity!
JACQUES BONHOMME: Let us put the question to the test of truth. One can divide among all the people in Paris only what there is in Paris; if there is less meat, less wood, less butter, each person's share will be smaller. Now, there will be less of these commodities if we ban them than if we admit them. Parisians, there can be abundance for everyone only in so far as there is general abundance.
THE PEOPLE: Long live abundance!
PETER: This man can talk all he wants; he will never be able to show you that it is in your interest to be subjected to unbridled competition.
THE PEOPLE: Down with competition!
JACQUES BONHOMME: This man can declaim all he wants; he cannot make it possible for you to taste the sweets of restriction.
THE PEOPLE: Down with restriction!
PETER: And I, for my part, declare that if the poor cowherds and swineherds are to be deprived of their daily bread, if they are to be sacrificed to theories, I can no longer be answerable for public order. Workingmen, put no faith in that man. He is an agent of perfidious Normandy; he goes there to get his orders. He is a traitor; he must be hanged.
(The people remain silent.)
JACQUES BONHOMME: Parisians, everything I am saying today, I was saying twenty years ago, when Peter took it into his head to exploit the town tariff duties for his own advantage and to your disadvantage. I am not, then, an agent of the Normans. Hang me if you will, but that will not make oppression any the less oppressive. Friends, it is neither Jacques Bonhomme nor Peter who must be killed, but free trade if it frightens you, or restriction if it does you harm.
THE PEOPLE: Let us hang no one, and set everybody free.

Bastiat, Frédéric, and Arthur Goddard. "Protectionism, or the Three Alderman." Economic Sophisms. Princeton, N.J.: D. Van Nostrand, 1964. 231-241. Print.

[tod evans]

Being able to buy products more cheaply positively affects the economy. More importantly it is a positive for the individual themselves.

A "net positive" for the consumer, absolutely!

But one must back up a bit and determine who, exactly, is the consumer...

Once that is determined one must logically question where said consumer obtains the currency he turns lose of in order to consume...

Government has interfered with free trade for so many decades that there's not one person alive today who's views aren't tainted by governments interference.

In a logical world there is no way goods could be manufactured on the other side of the globe and transported to your neighborhood for you to consume for less out of pocket expense than your neighbors could produce them. Unless the raw materials weren't available to your neighbors.

The subset of society who enriches themselves via this global marketplace is the most worthless and vile group of humans ever to breath, those who profit from others labor.

Governments fit firmly into this group as their employees produce nothing...

Things aren't likely to change in my lifetime, but they will change.....

Given the large percentage of humans eating and breeding within our borders who produce nothing you can hold in your hand, it's inevitable...


A very miniscule percentage of consumers in this country produce anything.........And that's a real problem.

[helmuth_hubener]

China is a one party communist state.

Here is what you wrote, AF:


Still shouting hosannas to Communism, with Chinese aspects, here, I see.

You came in here and accused someone of shouting hosannas to Communism. Now let us not be cowardly, AF. That would be pretty cowardly to accuse someone of something without actually naming names, wouldn't it? Especially when the person you're accusing is right there? Why, that sounds downright slinking, slimy, mewling, and two-faced to try to make an accusation without actually making an accusation. We wouldn't want to be cowards, would we AF?

I know I wouldn't.

So why don't you name names? Why don't you be a man and come out and be forthright in your accusations? If you want to accuse, oh, just for instance...me...of shouting hosannas to Communism, you could say something manly and direct such as "Helmuth, you are worshipping Communism in this thread". I think we all could appreciate that.



China's dominant position today is due in no small part to Chairman Mao's "Great Leap Forward". That is a joke.

It is not a very funny joke.



The powers that be were so impressed with Mao's "Triumph of the Will" that they sent the twin snakes, Kissinger and Nixon, to hand the economy of the United States and its currency to him on a silver platter. Why don't you explain to all of us benighted souls how exactly the economy of the United States and its currency were handed to Mao on a silver platter?


Tariffs are Constitutionally permitted, and funded the FedGov without income taxation up until 1916. Simplification to the point of inaccuracy, but fine, continue with your point....


Now, hurrah for the day when there is no government, and no constitution. More precisely, when men will be able to choose our government for ourselves. When there is no forcibly-maintained monopoly goverment. Yes: hurrah!


But that day is long off. Maybe.


So, in the meantime, a government that is funded by tariffs is small and least intrusive. If you are talking about a 1% tariff, a revenue tariff, that is one thing.

But you seem to resent all imports and thus to want punitive tariffs, protectionist tariffs, not mere revenue tariffs. Believe me, a revenue tariff of 1% on all imports is not going to stop the flow of Chinese consumer goods, bring back the US steel industry, bring back the fishing and ship-building industries, resurrect manufacturing in general and light up the American countryside with factories once more.

I assumed this is what you wanted. Was I wrong?

What tariff rate would you prefer? The United States currently has a trade-weighted average import tariff rate of 2.0 percent on industrial goods (which account for 96% of imports). Since this 2% is clearly a thorn in your side for being far too low, what would the correct rate be? If AF were tariff king, what would the rate be?


So, if you want to celebrate buying cheap from an economy built on the corpses of 50 million people murdered by government, specifically for the purpose of creating the economy you are celebrating, be my guest. I do want to celebrate buying and producing plenteous, inexpensive, wonderful, innovative, durable, consistent, mass-produced goods from all the wonderful, brilliant businessmen who have flown beyond the clutches of their despotic tyrants back home and set up operations in the far more open and free Special Economic Zones of China. Their bold and courageous actions -- packing up and moving entire factories -- have made it possible for industrialism to continue. The ability to mass-produce goods for billions of people has been preserved. That's a hard-fought ability, and a precious one. It's the pinnacle of achievement of hundreds of years of economic progress. Because of these men's brave flight to freer climes, that achievement remains intact. Our Western standard of living has been maintained. And in the East, billions are rising out of poverty and into affluence as we speak. Poverty is in fact being eradicated from the face of this Earth. And it's all because the productive people of the world were not content to sit quietly and watch their businesses be strangled into oblivion by the taxes and regulations of the US, Germany, Britain, France, etc. They packed their bags, and they moved where they were welcome. Where they could breathe again. Where they could produce. They moved to the SEZs.


Excuse me for not taking part. You are not excused. It is a heroic story, a pro-freedom story. Everyone who cares about freedom should understand it. Everyone should salute these brave, productive, pioneers. They saved America the idea.

America is not dead. America lives on in Hong Kong, and Shenzhen, and Pudong, and Singapore. And what this shows is that capital is not tied down. Capital will not sit still and be your slave. Capital will pack itself onto a container boat and leave! your forsaken shores if there is anywhere to go where they will be taxed a little less, and hamstrung a little less.

And that is a very pleasing and satisfying thought.

Tyrants beware. We will leave you a ghost town.

[oyarde]

Well , I have managed to make it through a couple more weeks , easily without buying anything from China.

[oyarde]

If I do not have to change any auto parts this yr , I can make it through the yr without buying anything from China.

[pcosmar]

Still shouting hosannas to Communism, with Chinese aspects, here, I see.

Carry on.

Communists? Phffftt!

The Chinese are consummate Capitalists despite the rhetoric.

Which is exactly why so many products come from there.

Just for random example.
https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+hookah&client=firefox-a&hs=OlU&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=rcs&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=s457U-meGYqcyASzoYDACw&ved=0CDIQ7Ak&biw=1509&bih=736#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=a26wdPTZY31NvM%253A%3Bss_kA0qJ6tH3lM%3Bhttp% 253A%252F%252Fi01.i.aliimg.com%252Fwsphoto%252Fv0% 252F626428039_1%252FFree-shipping-Chinese-vintage-pipeNortheast-font-b-hookahs-b-font-heavy-smoker-telescopic-Longfeng-pipe.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.aliexpress.com%2 52Fantique-brass-hookah_reviews.html%3B1000%3B666

[oyarde]

I have gone through all of my purchases this yr , with the exception of a $20 coffee pot, Black & Decker( 55 % off , Lol ) I picked up @ Khols in Bowling Green on vacation , I am China free , hope nobody is feeding any children any food from there .....

[heavenlyboy34]

I have gone through all of my purchases this yr , with the exception of a $20 coffee pot, Black & Decker( 55 % off , Lol ) I picked up @ Khols in Bowling Green on vacation , I am China free , hope nobody is feeding any children any food from there .....
Real Chinese food is good and quite healthy. The cheap mass manufactured stuff is to be avoided, though.