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View Full Version : Western wildfires keep getting worse — and climate change is a prime suspect!




klamath
05-05-2014, 10:01 AM
This isn't just a random pattern: These wildfires have been getting larger and more frequent over the last three decades. A new study in Geophysical Research Letters finds that wildfires in the western United States have been growing at a rate of 90,000 acres per year between 1984 and 2011
By examining satellite data, the authors found that large wildfires were clearly increasing in 8 of 10 regions studied (save for southern California and the Great Basin). And they find that the upward trend is extremely unlikely to be due to random chance.

So what's driving this? Global warming is one likely suspect. "The really amazing thing is that we don't just see an increase in one or two regions," says lead author Philip Dennison, a geographer at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. "We're seeing it almost everywhere — in the mountain regions, in the Southwest. That tells us that something bigger is going on, and that thing appears to be climate change."

The study itself stops short of estimating how much of the increase might be caused by global warming — especially since other factors, such as forestry practices and invasive species are likely at play, too. But their finding is in line with previous research suggesting Western fire activity will become more common as temperatures rise

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/18/5627746/wildfires-in-the-west-are-getting-bigger-and-more-frequent

One of the supporting studies for climate change and this one I know for a fact is flawed.

Let us examine a it.
It is the American west. What else is common about the American west forest land? It is majority owned by the feds.
What has happened since 1984? Federal fire fighting has changed from suppression to management.
What is fire management? It is using fire for the benefit of the forests. Fires on federal land are drawn out and actually expanded by burnout operations. They play with the fire and it costs way more to manage a fire than to suppress it. They actually have plans and schedules to burn the forests.

Here is a little documentation.


On July 2, 1999, a planned 100-acre prescribed fire ignited by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) escaped control near Lewiston, California. The wildfire grew to about 2,000 acres and destroyed 23 residences before it was contained a week later by the California Department of Forestry. This "controlled" burn escaped and is now a text book example of how not to use fire under dry conditions.
A review team ultimately indicated that the BLM inadequately evaluated fire weather, fire behavior, and smoke impacts. The BLM did not light a test fire as prescribed in the burn plan and a plan of protection for houses was never discussed. Adequate protection resources were not available in case of the fire's escape. Heads rolled.

The Lowden Ranch prescribed fire has had major impacts on the federal govenment's use of prescribed fire - until Los Alamos.http://forestry.about.com/od/forestfire/ss/top_fires_na_5.htm


Reading Fire that started in Lassen Volcanic National Park in northern California
It started from lightning on July 23 and after about two weeks was only 95 acres while being managed for multiple objectives as a “fire for resource benefits”. Fire managers established a 700-acre box in which they intended to contain the fire by taking suppression action as needed to keep it from crossing the lines drawn on a map.

They were unsuccessful, and on August 6 it moved out of the park, ultimately burning 28,079 acres by the time it was contained on August 21. By August 23 the National Park Service had spent $15,875,495 observing, managing, and later suppressing the firehttp://wildfiretoday.com/2012/10/25/congressmen-hold-hearing-about-lassen-national-parks-reading-fire/



The Cerro Grande Fire was a disastrous forest fire in New Mexico, United States of America, that occurred in May 2000. The fire started as a controlled burn, and became uncontrolled owing to high winds and drought conditions. Over 400 families in the town of Los Alamos, New Mexico, lost their homes in the resulting 48,000-acre (190 km˛) fire. Structures at Los Alamos National Laboratory were also destroyed or damaged, although without loss or destruction of any of the special nuclear material housed there. Amazingly, there was no loss of human life. The US General Accounting Office estimated total damages at $1 billion.

and Yellowstone fires.. the grand fire management experiment...

Before the late 1960s, fires were generally believed to be detrimental for parks and forests, and management policies were aimed at suppressing fires as quickly as possible. However, as the beneficial ecological role of fire became better understood in the decades before 1988, a policy was adopted of allowing natural fires to burn under controlled conditions, which proved highly successful in reducing the area lost annually to wildfires.

In contrast, in 1988, Yellowstone was overdue for a large fire, and, in the exceptionally dry summer, the many smaller "controlled" fires combined. The fires burned discontinuously, leaping from one patch to another, leaving intervening areas untouched. Large firestorms swept through some regions, burning everything in their paths. Tens of millions of trees and countless plants were killed by the wildfires, and some regions were left looking blackened and dead.


Are these just a few isolated examples? As a former firefighter and a person that has lived through a managed burn, I can tell you it is NOT.

Acala
05-05-2014, 10:09 AM
We also know that periodic sustained droughts in the western US, far worse than what we are seeing now, were occurring long before industrialization.

Ronin Truth
05-05-2014, 10:38 AM
Have anything in particular to do with the Pacific ocean periodic el nino/la nina west coast weather/rainfall shifts?

Lucille
05-05-2014, 10:44 AM
A few years back we had two wildfires going at once. The Schultz Fire (http://www.azgs.az.gov/arizona_geology/winter10/article_feature.html) was allowed to spread for 5 hours by the forest service before any suppression was attempted; people calling in were told they were "watching it." It grew to 15,000 acres. They can hardly get anything to grow on the mountain, and so the community below is devastated anew every year during monsoon season with flooding and debris.

Adding insult to injury, the county was given federal funds, but the county planners decided the 4 million should go to the fascist business incubator rather than repairs to the community devastated by the Forest Service's man-made disaster. Our friends told us the county has a 20 year plan, which is reviewed every 5 years. That area will be flooding for decades, thanks to the very agency that "cares for the land and serves the people."

http://www.cnn.com/video/ireports/2010/06/25/irept.az.fire.sequence.cnn.640x360.jpg


Flagstaff municipal officials have used some creative grantsmanship linked to the Schultz fire and flood two years ago to jump-start the second phase of the business incubator complex atop McMillan Mesa.

The city applied for a federal grant aimed at helping cities cope with the aftermath of major natural disasters -- in this case, the fire that scorched 15,000 acres and the subsequent flooding in Timberline and Fernwood.

To meet the criteria, the city designed the new incubator building with a secure meeting area that could double as a backup emergency response center if the main law enforcement facility on Sawmill Road is somehow compromised.

The gambit worked. On Thursday, the U.S. Department of Commerce announced a $4 million award to the city of Flagstaff for a new, 25,000-square-foot building next door to the existing incubator, the Northern Arizona Center for Entrepreneurship and Technology.

acptulsa
05-05-2014, 10:59 AM
Meanwhile, the nation has not seen peace for a dozen years, and the public/private partnership known as the Ministry of Truth is trying to find a way to make nonconformists and those who question authority into 'prime suspects'.

When they figure it out, you'll know.

ctiger2
05-05-2014, 11:32 AM
The climates changing! Since the earth was formed the climates never changed!!! until now!

Ronin Truth
05-05-2014, 11:48 AM
The climates changing! Since the earth was formed the climates never changed!!! until now! Several million years of periodic ice ages would seem to suggest otherwise.

klamath
05-05-2014, 12:22 PM
Have anything in particular to do with the Pacific ocean periodic el nino/la nina west coast weather/rainfall shifts?That plays a role in how bad the fires burn when they eventually get away from them however the managed fire that burned my area happened on a very wet year. It was over 100,000 acres because they managed it for three months. Within those three months there were a number of dry wind events the blew the fire up into crown runs that destroyed thousands of acres of 300 to 500 year old old growth forests.

klamath
05-05-2014, 12:48 PM
Here is what the the federal government put out about the Yellowstone fires for years.. Remember they were managed fires... all good when they were trying to sell their managed fire policies.... Ah what is the term again.....“fire for resource benefits”.

While there were temporary declines in air quality during the fires, no adverse long-term health effects have been recorded in the ecosystem and contrary to initial reports, few large mammals were killed by the fires, though there has been a reduction in the number of moose which has yet to rebound. Losses to structures were minimized by concentrating firefighting efforts near major visitor areas, keeping property damage down to $3 million

A couple of weeks ago...


During the summer of 1988, with much of the United States experiencing serious drought, and discussions swirling about the global environmental toll of greenhouse gases, persistently dry and windy conditions in the West combined to produce the most expensive wildfire event the U.S. had ever seen.
Before it was over, 51 individual wildfires combined to torch nearly 800,000 acres, or 36 percent, of Yellowstone National Park, roughly the size of Rhode Island. In a single August day, wind-fanned flames consumed 150,000 acres. Including lands outside the park, the fires burned 1.2 million acres of forest. The months-long battle brought 25,000 federal firefighters onto the fire lines and cost $120 million. Smoke from wildfires in and around Yellowstone darkened the sky up and down the Rockies and far and wide across the Great Plains.

It was a year that seared wildfire and the government response to wildfire into the national consciousness.

A quarter of a century after the touchstone events of 1988, the American West has seen a dramatic increase in large wildfires tied to drought and a warming climate.


Fires are bad and the result of global warming when global warming is what they are trying to sell. But wait when they manage fires for months it is for “fire for resource benefits”.

Ronin Truth
05-05-2014, 12:54 PM
"Everything government touches turns to crap." -- Ringo Starr

Henry Rogue
05-05-2014, 12:57 PM
My trash can blew over in the breeze, I think it was caused by climate change.

HOLLYWOOD
05-05-2014, 01:21 PM
Love your comment because it strikes exactly at the problem occurring over and over. Government profiteers... DO you think the government officials would receive campaign donations planting trees on those rural far off and burnt-out mountains, or from businesses next door to campaign offices? This is exactly what Washington DC is doing with so-called Federal lands, think BLM/EPA/DOI thugs as the "hitman" of the crony politicians. Government profiteers are working with campaign donating corporations that receive grant money, like green energy or even the powerful real estate lobby that splits profiting on building those "Ticky-Tac" Housing developments on government allocated/rezoned lands. Of course if you're; Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein, or Harry Reid, not only land/building grabs for profiteering developers, campaign contributions, you line up your families with funneled Federal grant monies and/or contracts/work from the business deals. Over the past 20 years this has become very prevalent with the federal government agencies kicking rural families of their land, taking their property. They want it all and never even negotiate on disputed property.

Sad, the American taxpayer don't realize the extent of racketeering and corruption with these career political lawyers. The people pay the price, left with the problems, and government is never held responsible.

PS: I was out at Los Alamos(LANL) Cerro Grande-Water Canyon in 2000, the fire destruction was devastating and it will take the forest 100 years to grow back. $1 Billion in damages and no one in government was charged with negligence in starting this fire.



...Adding insult to injury, the county was given federal funds, but the county planners decided the 4 million should go to the fascist business incubator rather than repairs to the community devastated by the Forest Service's man-made disaster.
http://www.cnn.com/video/ireports/2010/06/25/irept.az.fire.sequence.cnn.640x360.jpg

acptulsa
05-05-2014, 01:26 PM
Meanwhile, in other 'news', CNN is looking for a climatologist willing to state that the abnormally high rate of death in Iraq and Afghanistan over the last decade could be due to climate change.

A generous honorarium is part of the package.

alucard13mm
05-05-2014, 02:57 PM
Very simple explanation. Fires get more intense because there are areas that have not had a fire in decades, or even more than a century. All the dead, dried debris remains there and builds up. That is a lot of fuel.

klamath
05-05-2014, 04:16 PM
Very simple explanation. Fires get more intense because there are areas that have not had a fire in decades, or even more than a century. All the dead, dried debris remains there and builds up. That is a lot of fuel. I used to believe this as well but personal experience changed my mind. The fires burn MORE intense in burned areas because the forest is loaded with dead fuel. As I watched the 100,000 acre fire burn through 20 year old lightning burns the dead fuel triggered crown runs.
massive fires WILL burn no matter what when the right conditions are met and the longer managed fires are kept burning the chances of those right conditions will be met greatly increases.

Historical fires before fire suppression.


On the day of the Peshtigo Fire, a cold front moved in from the west, bringing strong winds that fanned the fires out of control and escalated them to massive proportions.[5] A firestorm ensued. In the words of one author, "A firestorm is called nature's nuclear explosion. Here's a wall of flame, a mile high, five miles (8 km) wide, traveling 90 to 100 miles per hour (160 km/h), hotter than a crematorium, turning sand into glass." [6] By the time it was over, 1,875 square miles (4,860 km˛ or 1.2 million acres) of forest had been consumed, an area approximately twice the size of Rhode Island. Some sources list 1.5 million acres (6,100 km˛) burned.[citation needed] Twelve communities were destroyed. An accurate death toll has never been determined because local records were destroyed in the fire. Between 1,200 and 2,500 people are thought to have lost their lives. The 1873 Report to the Wisconsin Legislature listed 1,182 names of deceased or missing residents.[7] In 1870, the Town of Peshtigo had 1,749 residents.[8][9] More than 350 bodies were buried in a mass grave,[10] primarily because so many had died that no one remained alive who could identify many of them.


"The late summer of 1910 approached with ominous, sinister, and threatening portents. Dire catastrophe seemed to permeate the very atmosphere..."

Map of 1910 fires in western U.S.
Map of 1910 fires in the national forests of the western U.S. Does not show fires on state, private, or other federal lands, which could triple total area.


On August 10 reports began coming into District headquarters in Missoula, Montana, that fires had broken out and were quickly spreading on the surrounding Clearwater, Lolo, Cabinet, Flathead, Blackfeet, and Kaniksu National Forests. With supplies and manpower lacking and the number of fires was growing, the Forest Service persuaded President William Howard Taft to deploy troops to supplement the civilian firefighting force. In all, around 4,000 soldiers would be called into action. With fires popping up in the Idaho panhandle and western Montana as well as in Washington and Oregon, the federal government’s resources were stretched to the breaking point. By the end of the week, however, firefighters appeared to have the upper hand. Supervisors began releasing employees on August 19.

The Big Blowup

On August 20 hurricane-force winds swept through the region and fanned embers and low flames back to life all across the Northern Rockies. There was no stopping or containing the fire; one could only hope to avoid it. Trains raced to evacuate towns just ahead of the flames. Forester Edward G. Stahl recalled that flames hundreds of feet high were "fanned by a tornadic wind so violent that the flames flattened out ahead, swooping to earth in great darting curves, truly a veritable red demon from hell." In the same instant that towns and timber alike perished, heroes were made, legends were born, and history changed forever.


1825 - The Miramichi fire in Maine and New Brunswick; three million acres burned; 160 people killed.
1846 - The Yaquina fire in Oregon; 450,000 acres burned.
1853 - The Nestucca fire in Oregon; 320,000 acres burned.
1865 - The Silverton fire in Oregon, one million acres burned.
1868 - The Coos fire in Oregon; 300,000 acres burned.
1871 - The Peshtigo fire in Wisconsin; the most deadly in U.S. history; 1,500 killed; 1.2 million acres burned.
1876 - The Bighorn fire in Wyoming; 500,000 acres burned.

Henry Rogue
05-05-2014, 06:12 PM
Chicago fire was the same day as the Peshtigo fire. October 8, 1871.

JK/SEA
05-05-2014, 06:21 PM
ban BIC lighters.

surf
05-05-2014, 06:26 PM
not going to really comment on comments above or the article, but i'm pretty tired of all the precipitation in this part of the west coast. we're nearly double our already healthy average.

i'm hoping for some climate change tomorrow.

and if i sound like i have no feeling for those in need of water, not true.

klamath
05-05-2014, 06:28 PM
Chicago fire was the same day as the Peshtigo fire. October 8, 1871. Yep, Historically it gets eclipsed by the Chicago fire.

jclay2
05-05-2014, 06:31 PM
Would it make sense to not manage fires at all and let them burn when they occur?

klamath
05-05-2014, 06:41 PM
Would it make sense to not manage fires at all and let them burn when they occur? In my opinion yes. I don't think they would be nearly as big. By far the majority of the fire that burned my area was lite by USFS flares and helitorchs. Chance are the fire would have never burned my area before the fall rains had they not.

Madison320
05-05-2014, 07:57 PM
Several million years of periodic ice ages would seem to suggest otherwise.

And during the time of the dinosaurs the earth was much warmer than it is now. There were no ice caps. Dinosaurs must have left really big carbon foot prints.

The "climate warmers" have a lot in common with creationists. They both seem to think the earth is only a few thousand years old.

Henry Rogue
05-05-2014, 08:35 PM
And during the time of the dinosaurs the earth was much warmer than it is now. There were no ice caps. Dinosaurs must have left really big carbon foot prints.

The "climate warmers" have a lot in common with creationists. They both seem to think the earth is only a few thousand years old.
Very gassy animals especially the Flatulasaurus

donnay
05-05-2014, 08:47 PM
So we pay Al Gore and his cronies some money (tax), and all will be well. Sunshine and lollypops. :rolleyes: