On Drudge: University bars YAL students from handing out Constitution

[green73]

Two students are suing the University of Hawaii for violating their First Amendment rights after administrator prevented them from distributing copies of the U.S. Constitution — demonstrating a frightening lack of knowledge about the very legal document they were attempting to censor.

Students Merritt Burch and Anthony Vizzone, members of the Young Americans for Liberty chapter at UH-Hilo, were prevented from handing out copies of the Constitution at a recruitment event in January. A week later, they were again informed by a censorship-minded administrator that their First Amendment-protected activities were in violation of school policy.

The students were told that they could only distribute literature from within UH-Hilo’s “free speech zone,” a small, muddy, frequently-flooded area on the edge of campus.

Administrators further clarified their level of respect for students’ free speech rights, making comments like, “This isn’t really the ’60s anymore,” and “people can’t really protest like that anymore,” according to the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education.

The First Amendment has not been modified since the 1960s, however, and robustly protects the rights of students at public universities to hold non-disruptive protests, speak their mind and distribute literature.

Administrators also maintained that university policy took precedent over Constitutional rights, according to the complaint.

“It’s not about your rights in this case, it’s about the University policy that you can’t approach people,” said Ellen Kusano, director of Student Affairs, according to the complaint.

cont.
http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/24/another-university-stops-students-from-handing-out-constitution/?advD=1248,657950

[Bern]

It's not about education, it's about indoctrination.

[nobody's_hero]

"Now shut up and finish getting your degree in Antarctic studies so you can go live at home with mom while working part time at a gas station." --- Administrators

[RabbitMan]

No. Just no. Please don't make this an issue. As a once college student, if just ANYONE is allowed to start handing out literature and pestering students, then you open up a huge can of worms. This is a policy schools have to keep the campus nice, and for us to keep obnoxious anti-abortion evangelists from following us around with photos of dead babies telling us we were horrible sinners.

[Cabal]

University policy that you can’t approach people

...what?

[twomp]

No. Just no. Please don't make this an issue. As a once college student, if just ANYONE is allowed to start handing out literature and pestering students, then you open up a huge can of worms. This is a policy schools have to keep the campus nice, and for us to keep obnoxious anti-abortion evangelists from following us around with photos of dead babies telling us we were horrible sinners.

I don't know if you are serious or not but this does not happen just because you allow people to pass out pamphlets. Does it happen on the streets you walk on daily? Why would it just suddenly happen on college campuses and no where else?

[Cabal]

I don't know if you are serious or not but this does not happen just because you allow people to pass out pamphlets. Does it happen on the streets you walk on daily? Why would it just suddenly happen on college campuses and no where else?

Perhaps because relative to some random sidewalk, college campuses are central locations with dependably high population and traffic, and because college campuses tend to be hubs for political activism.

[Philhelm]

No. Just no. Please don't make this an issue. As a once college student, if just ANYONE is allowed to start handing out literature and pestering students, then you open up a huge can of worms. This is a policy schools have to keep the campus nice, and for us to keep obnoxious anti-abortion evangelists from following us around with photos of dead babies telling us we were horrible sinners.

They are horrible sinners. If one is to kill a baby, one should have the guts, the honor, to look it in the eyes as the deed is done, and to tell it why such is its fate. For that reason, I will wait until my daughter's sixth birthday before aborting her for her manifold crimes against Us.

[aGameOfThrones]

Hopefully another Uni that's going to lose in court over their policy.

[twomp]

Perhaps because relative to some random sidewalk, college campuses are central locations with dependably high population and traffic, and because college campuses tend to be hubs for political activism.

Again then why not outside high attendance events like sports games or music events. If these "obnoxious anti-abortion evangelists" were everywhere as the this person suggests, why aren't they there? And even if they were, this would be no reason to ban their first amendment rights.

[ZENemy]

No. Just no. Please don't make this an issue. As a once college student, if just ANYONE is allowed to start handing out literature and pestering students, then you open up a huge can of worms. This is a policy schools have to keep the campus nice, and for us to keep obnoxious anti-abortion evangelists from following us around with photos of dead babies telling us we were horrible sinners.

Outlaw steak because babies cannot chew it?

[Cabal]

Again then why not outside high attendance events like sports games or music events. If these "obnoxious anti-abortion evangelists" were everywhere as the this person suggests, why aren't they there? And even if they were, this would be no reason to ban their first amendment rights.

Well, the poster never claimed "obnoxious anti-abortion evangelists" were everywhere, for starters. He was specifically referring to campus locations, as I understand it. University campuses in particular tend to be predominantly liberal in ideology, which also tends to mean "pro-choice" views are popular in these locations. Thus for political activists who enjoy stirring things up, they are ideal locations. For the same reason, you also often hear about anti-abortion activists protesting outside of Planned Parenthood. In any case, sports events don't tend to be hubs for political activism, nor are they generally associated with a particular political ideology; they tend to be hubs for entertainment. And to his credit, there are stories where anti-abortion activists do exactly what he describes. Not long ago, as I recall, there was a story about this very subject, where a University professor forcibly stole one of these activists signs which had pictures of aborted fetuses.

[RabbitMan]

I wasn't claiming it was everywhere--I just happened to go to university in the South. Cabal pretty much sums up why it is done. We had one spot on campus that was 'a free speech zone' where folks could ask for sign ups for political campaigns, rally for causes, etc.. There were a couple silly things going on during the '08 campaign on the left, but by far the worst were the Pro-life protesters who would stand out there in bloody tattered rags, displaying pictures prominently of dead babies, and yelling at people for being sinners.

They were kind of a touring act I hear, showing up every year for a monthish. Anyhoo, the third year I attended one of them threw something(bible?) at someone walking by who was ignoring them and they summarily were banished from the campus.

It's obviously an extreme example, but its the reason that they don't allow it everywhere on campus. I mean, it is private property guys. You don't seem to get annoyed at businesses that say no shoes no service do you?

[nobody's_hero]

I wasn't claiming it was everywhere--I just happened to go to university in the South. Cabal pretty much sums up why it is done. We had one spot on campus that was 'a free speech zone' where folks could ask for sign ups for political campaigns, rally for causes, etc.. There were a couple silly things going on during the '08 campaign on the left, but by far the worst were the Pro-life protesters who would stand out there in bloody tattered rags, displaying pictures prominently of dead babies, and yelling at people for being sinners.

They were kind of a touring act I hear, showing up every year for a monthish. Anyhoo, the third year I attended one of them threw something(bible?) at someone walking by who was ignoring them and they summarily were banished from the campus.

It's obviously an extreme example, but its the reason that they don't allow it everywhere on campus. I mean, it is private property guys. You don't seem to get annoyed at businesses that say no shoes no service do you?

University of Hawaii is a public university, actually.

I've been noticing an alarming trend when it comes to public property.

It seems that people think because something is public, it has to be even more heavily regulated. 'We can't have everyone just running around willy-nilly blah blah blah.' On the contrary, that's when the Constitution counts the most.

If UH were privately funded, they can do what they want. But so long as one cent of my tax dollars finds its way to that college, my Bill of Rights had better find its way there too.

[Origanalist]

I don't know if you are serious or not but this does not happen just because you allow people to pass out pamphlets. Does it happen on the streets you walk on daily? Why would it just suddenly happen on college campuses and no where else?

He's serious.

[DevilsAdvocate]

I don't think this is a free speech issue, it's more of an "I don't want people shoving pamphlets in my face on my way to class" issue.

[Paulbot99]

I don't think this is a free speech issue, it's more of an "I don't want people shoving pamphlets in my face on my way to class" issue.

I don't want condoms shoved in my face, but the group that passes those out can set up anywhere on campus while the rest of us are confined to a "Free Speech Zone".

They also get university funding.

[RJB]

I don't know if you are serious or not but this does not happen just because you allow people to pass out pamphlets. Does it happen on the streets you walk on daily? Why would it just suddenly happen on college campuses and no where else?

Before you know it people will believe they can speak their minds!!! :eek:

[RJB]

No. Just no. Please don't make this an issue. As a once college student, if just ANYONE is allowed to start handing out literature and pestering students, then you open up a huge can of worms. This is a policy schools have to keep the campus nice, and for us to keep obnoxious anti-abortion evangelists from following us around with photos of dead babies telling us we were horrible sinners.

Indeed. Handing out constitutions is the very slippery slope the Founders Father warned us about.

[angelatc]

I wasn't claiming it was everywhere--I just happened to go to university in the South. Cabal pretty much sums up why it is done. We had one spot on campus that was 'a free speech zone' where folks could ask for sign ups for political campaigns, rally for causes, etc.. There were a couple silly things going on during the '08 campaign on the left, but by far the worst were the Pro-life protesters who would stand out there in bloody tattered rags, displaying pictures prominently of dead babies, and yelling at people for being sinners.

They were kind of a touring act I hear, showing up every year for a monthish. Anyhoo, the third year I attended one of them threw something(bible?) at someone walking by who was ignoring them and they summarily were banished from the campus.

It's obviously an extreme example, but its the reason that they don't allow it everywhere on campus. I mean, it is private property guys. You don't seem to get annoyed at businesses that say no shoes no service do you?

Wow. This is how much the forums have changed. Some people here are defending the "Free Speech Zone" concept. I haz the sad....

Having said that; Are they taking federal money? If they are, it isn't private property. SCOTUS has already ruled that it's a violation of the First Amendment to restrict such activities in airports, so I am pretty sure the university is going to lose this fight if they are dumb enough to fight it in the first place.

Here's a lawyer's opinion, from The Volokh Conspiracy:


University of Hawaii (Hilo): Our students are easily intimidated, and need to be protected from people handing out literature (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/04/25/university-of-hawaii-hilo-our-students-are-easily-intimidated-need-to-be-protected-from-people-handing-out-literature/)

Well, the Supreme Court has held, in ISKCON v. Lee (1992) (http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=13833614167911464291), that approaching people to hand them leaflets is constitutionally protected even in airports (at least as to the areas before the security checkpoint). Some restrictions on such in-person leafletting in especially congested areas might be permissible, but the UH-Hilo prohibition isn’t so limited.

And the “it’s like [the students] can’t say no” argument is both patronizing and unsound. University students can say no to offered literature just fine. And to the extent that some might accept literature that they don’t really want — perhaps because they feel it’s impolite to just decline it — they can certainly “say no” to reading it.

[angelatc]

No. Just no. Please don't make this an issue. As a once college student, if just ANYONE is allowed to start handing out literature and pestering students, then you open up a huge can of worms. This is a policy schools have to keep the campus nice, and for us to keep obnoxious anti-abortion evangelists from following us around with photos of dead babies telling us we were horrible sinners.


You should make this your signature.

[angelatc]

Indeed. Handing out constitutions is the very slippery slope the Founders Father warned us about.

I guess this isn't the 60's any more. Our youth are much more passive now, it seems.

[Wooden Indian]

Yikes. Did I just read on the RPF that someone supports not being able to hand out the Constitution at school... because people might then hand out anti-abortion material?

No. Couldn't have. I'll get my eyes checked and stop back in tomorrow. Maybe I happened upon the HuffPo with my blurry eyes.

[RJB]

Yikes. Did I just read on the RPF that someone supports not being able to hand out the Constitution at school... because people might then hand out anti-abortion material?

No. Couldn't have. I'll get my eyes checked and stop back in tomorrow. Maybe I happened upon the HuffPo with my blurry eyes.
Terrorists who hand out constitutions should be waterboarded and sent to Gitmo ASAP!

[Antischism]

If they already stop people from handing out other literature/pamphlets, I guess it's a bit of a non-story since it's not like they're specifically singling out the constitution as the one thing people aren't allowed to hand out. It sounds like once you're within their property (I'm assuming it's completely private property) they're allowed to dictate the rules, and there's nothing wrong with that at all from a libertarian perspective.

[green73]

I guess this isn't the 60's any more. Our youth are much more passive now, it seems.

When there was like 12 libertarians in the country?

[Wooden Indian]

If they already stop people from handing out other literature/pamphlets, I guess it's a bit of a non-story since it's not like they're specifically singling out the constitution as the one thing people aren't allowed to hand out. It sounds like once you're within their property (I'm assuming it's completely private property) they're allowed to dictate the rules, and there's nothing wrong with that at all from a libertarian perspective.


There are many federal, state and private resources available to help fund your education at any one of our 10 campuses.

http://hawaii.edu/finaid/index.php

1st Amendment clearly applies in my mind.

[jtap]

Totally ok to go through the parking lot and put flyers under everyone's wipers though.