And so the character assasination of Cliven Bundy Begins!!!!!

[AuH20]

Here they go!!! Are his comments insensitive? Yes. Does he deserve to be droned for them? No. And the irony is that his comments are pretty truthful. The black man in this country has been stripped of dignity and respect by the dark forces of institutionalized racism and in turn has received a new set of chains.


http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/us/politics/rancher-proudly-breaks-the-law-becoming-a-hero-in-the-west.html


But if the federal government has moved on, Mr. Bundy — a father of 14 and a registered Republican — has not.

He said he would continue holding a daily news conference; on Saturday, it drew one reporter and one photographer, so Mr. Bundy used the time to officiate at what was in effect a town meeting with supporters, discussing, in a long, loping discourse, the prevalence of abortion, the abuses of welfare and his views on race.

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.

“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

[klamath]

I didn't want to post this article but since you did. Bundy just lost a huge step in the PR war. He should have kept his mouth SHUT. If he hadn't of singled out "negros" in his diatribe against government welfare being bad his case would have been solid.

[AuH20]

I didn't want to post this article but since you did. Bundy just lost a huge step in the PR war. He should have kept his mouth SHUT. If he hadn't of singled out "negros" in his diatribe against government welfare being bad his case would have been solid.

Forget about the nonsensical PR war. Does he deserve to die for these insensitive comments? Because that is what's coming. Take for example, Randy Weaver who moved to the hinterlands so his family would not be subject to the cancers of urban blight.

[klamath]

Forget about the nonsensical PR war. Does he deserve to die for these insensitive comments? Because that is what's coming. Take for example, Randy Weaver who moved to the hinterlands so his family would not be subject to the cancers of urban blight. No he doesn't deserve to die but that "nonsensical PR war is what WILL keep him alive". Let the government brand him as a neoconfederate slave supporter and the American people won't bat an eye when the feds wipe him out and any militia with him.
The PR war is the only reason he is alive today.

[squarepusher]

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-give-him-enough-rope-and-he-will-hang-himself-charlotte-bronte-24242.jpg

[PRB]

Here they go!!! Are his comments insensitive? Yes. Does he deserve to be droned for them? No. And the irony is that his comments are pretty truthful. The black man in this country has been stripped of dignity and respect by the dark forces of institutionalized racism and in turn has received a new set of chains.

The truth is racist, blaming it on institutionalized racism doesn't help anybody. Is it really character assassination if he said what he said, and wasn't quoted out of context? This is straight from the horseman/ring leader's mouth. you can't say this was one of his fringe supporters, this is Bundy himself. Nobody says he needs to be droned, the fact people hear this and won't like him is enough suffering to him, bad PR is the last thing people like him need and want.

[phill4paul]

SMDH. Shut up and stick to the issue man.

[Origanalist]

Sigh. Major derp.

[William Tell]

Rand and Heller have both bashed his comments:
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/rand-paul-dean-heller-cliven-bundy-105982.html#ixzz2zoLdtMBA

[PRB]

I didn't want to post this article but since you did. Bundy just lost a huge step in the PR war. He should have kept his mouth SHUT. If he hadn't of singled out "negros" in his diatribe against government welfare being bad his case would have been solid.


sorry, it doesn't work that way. Liberals have long held that there's no such thing as a militia patriot who hates the federal government that isn't either a conspiracy theorist, racist, or somebody who knows one and tolerates one, people like this keep proving them right. People like Bundy can't and won't keep their mouths shut, because at the end of the day, it's the only reason they've not given in. They have beliefs, strong and unpopular ones, and they will fight to keep them, if they kept their opinions to themselves, they'd never get the media attention or support to begin with. They'd be the boring powerless guy who nobody cares about and will never hear about, and the federal government won't bother enforcing on, THAT'S WHY the federal government doesn't consistently enforce laws. While powerful and corrupt governments don't need good PR to succeed, it won't hurt them when their adversaries and victims create bad PR for themselves, at all!

[PRB]

SMDH. Shut up and stick to the issue man.

what issue? the whole point of this standoff is that the federal government is evil and welfare recipients destroy this country, isn't it?

[pcosmar]

Seems I have heard Prominent Black men make exactly the same argument against the Welfare State.

It has harmed Blacks far more than slavery ever did.

His statement was an argument against Welfare.

[Natural Citizen]

Sigh. Major derp.

Uh-oh...


His cause has won support from Senator Rand Paul, the libertarian Republican from Kentucky who is likely to run for president.

A spokesman for Mr. Paul, informed of Mr. Bundy’s remarks, said the senator was not available for immediate comment. Chandler Smith, a spokesman for Mr. Heller, said that the senator “completely disagrees with Mr. Bundy’s appalling and racist statements, and condemns them in the most strenuous way.”

[JK/SEA]

Cliven was born in a different time, different lifestyle. He grew up with this mindset. If using the term Negro is an issue with people then i submit those who scorn Cliven are mental midgets, and should be ignored. Tolerance is the key, coupled with an understanding of where Cliven is coming from.

[phill4paul]

Rand and Heller have both bashed his comments:
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/rand-paul-dean-heller-cliven-bundy-105982.html#ixzz2zoLdtMBA

Rightfully so with Rand doing outreach. F*ckin' people just do not know how to keep their mouth shut when fighting a PR war. This will now paint any militia members that support him as racists also furthering the anti-militia resentment.
I hate people. Damned if I don't.

[klamath]

Rand and Heller have both bashed his comments:
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/rand-paul-dean-heller-cliven-bundy-105982.html#ixzz2zoLdtMBA He left Rand and heller no choice. Damn that pisses me off. He had a good solid case going on federal control of land in the west and he blew it.

[AuH20]

Seems I have heard Prominent Black men make exactly the same argument against the welfare state.

It has harmed Blacks far more than slavery ever did.

Yes, if you examine his argument, it's not without merit. But he's an enemy of the state who happens to be white. Yes, Bundy is a poor communicator if these comments are true, but that still doesn't mean he should be deprived of his constitutional rights by the majority. This is going to be Randy Weaver redux.

[PRB]

Seems I have heard Prominent Black men make exactly the same argument against the Welfare State.

It has harmed Blacks far more than slavery ever did.

His statement was an argument against Welfare.

Such as who? Welfare has harmed more than slavery? I'm sure if that were true or agreed upon by the black community, they'd gladly ask for the alternative!

[PRB]

Yes, if you examine his argument, it's not without merit. But he's an enemy of the state who happens to be white. Yes, Bundy is a poor communicator if these comments are true, but that still doesn't mean he should be deprived of his constitutional rights by the majority. This is going to be Randy Weaver redux.

Not just white, but also anti-liberal and anti-PC. Liberals can be against government as long as it's PC and pro-liberal values.

[AuH20]

Rightfully so with Rand doing outreach. F*ckin' people just do not know how to keep their mouth shut when fighting a PR war. This will now paint any militia members that support him as racists also furthering the anti-militia resentment.
I hate people. Damned if I don't.

I don't think we can worry about it anymore. There is an almost pathological drive by the MSM to paint 2nd amendment advocates and state rights proponents as racist no matter their background. Meanwhile, the policies they push forth at the govenrment level are the ones that are inherently racist. That's the kicker.

[William Tell]

He left Rand and heller no choice. Damn that pisses me off. He had a good solid case going on federal control of land in the west and he blew it.

I think Rand would be better of if he stopped making statements on every dang thing in the news. Granted, Bundy Ranch is an important issue.

[phill4paul]

Seems I have heard Prominent Black men make exactly the same argument against the Welfare State.

It has harmed Blacks far more than slavery ever did.

His statement was an argument against Welfare.

It was the way that he framed it. You might find a handful of people that believe negroes, blacks, afro-americans (what ever the hell they choose to label themselves these days) were better off as slaves. And this rant of his simply did not need to be issued. At all. It does nothing but harm for his cause.

[donnay]

Seems I have heard Prominent Black men make exactly the same argument against the Welfare State.

It has harmed Blacks far more than slavery ever did.

His statement was an argument against Welfare.

The thing is Welfare is slavery.

[PRB]

The thing is Welfare is slavery.

ask any welfare recipient or slave which one they prefer, your comparison is ignorant and insulting to say the least.

[AuH20]

Such as who? Welfare has harmed more than slavery? I'm sure if that were true or agreed upon by the black community, they'd gladly ask for the alternative!

Welfare is far more insidious than outright slavery in it's subtlety. Many of the imprisoned do not even know they are being held captive.

[William Tell]

Such as who? Welfare has harmed more than slavery? I'm sure if that were true or agreed upon by the black community, they'd gladly ask for the alternative!

I think Emanuel McLittle has said some things along those lines. And that's why you have probably never heard of him.

[PRB]

It was the way that he framed it. You might find a handful of people that believe negroes, blacks, afro-americans (what ever the hell they choose to label themselves these days) were better off as slaves. And this rant of his simply did not need to be issued. At all. It does nothing but harm for his cause.

better off as slaves is bullshit, if they were actually better off, they'd volunteer it. it's always non-blacks who claim blacks are better off as slaves. this is different than saying blacks are better off when civil rights didn't exist or when segregation was still common.

[pcosmar]

Such as who?

Walter E Williams comes to mind,, but I think Will Grigg has mentioned such as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzNYCPZXvlw

[PRB]

Welfare is far more insidious than outright slavery in it's subtlety. Many of the imprisoned do not even know they are being held captive.

because being imprisoned is always unjust and never because you actually committed a crime, right? wait, what does prison have to do with welfare? are you using metaphors again?

[William Tell]

because being imprisoned is always unjust and never because you actually committed a crime, right? wait, what does prison have to do with welfare? are you using metaphors again?

Not all slaves are in prisons.

[klamath]

Well the progressive won that chess match. The set him up as a welfare rancher and he fell right into their trap by going off on a black welfare rant. Check and mate.

[AuH20]

because being imprisoned is always unjust and never because you actually committed a crime, right? wait, what does prison have to do with welfare? are you using metaphors again?

You don't need physical chains to imprison someone. You take away all hope and rob them of self-empowerment & I'll argue you that you can keep them in the desired caste. It's behavioral conditioning 101. Now I'm not saying this was done entirely on purpose (though we must wonder why the illegal drug trade specifically targets African Americans and the fact that there seems to be a liquor store on every corner in the hood), but it certainly makes you wonder.

[donnay]

ask any welfare recipient or slave which one they prefer, your comparison is ignorant and insulting to say the least.

Your ignorance is much more insulting.

We are all slaves for the bankers.

"None are so hopelessly enslaves as those who falsely believe they are free."

[mz10]

Come on guys. I'm with Bundy in his fight against the feds, but he said that blacks should have learned how to pick cotton. And we're not only defending him but agreeing with him? I hate the whole left-wing "racist" witch-hunt as much as y'all do, but this is pretty blatant. He said that Negroes should still be enslaved.

The enemy of our enemy is not our friend. Bundy can be a freedom fighter, and still have disgusting white supremacist views. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[CaseyJones]

"character assasination"? he just shot his "character" in the foot

[William Tell]

ask any welfare recipient or slave which one they prefer

Yes, those on welfare do seem to prefer that form of slavery.

[AuH20]

Come on guys. I'm with Bundy in his fight against the feds, but he said that blacks should have learned how to pick cotton. And we're not only defending him but agreeing with him? I hate the whole left-wing "racist" witch-hunt as much as y'all do, but this is pretty blatant. He said that Negroes should still be enslaved.

The enemy of our enemy is not our friend. Bundy can be a freedom fighter, and still have disgusting white supremacist views. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Bundy was basically stating that it would be better for idle hands to gather an agricultural product than sitting on a porch all day waiting for government subsidies.

[pcosmar]

but this is pretty blatant. He said that Negroes should still be enslaved.



No he didn't,,, but that is the spin that many are buying in to.

A lot of people picked cotton after slavery ended. He was suggesting that they work for a living, rather than sitting on a Government funded porch.

I remember a bunch of bullshit behind the Duck Dynasty Guys saying the same thing,, about picking cotton.
Poor white folks picked cotton too.

[JK/SEA]

Cliven is a throwback to a different time.

[klamath]

Bundy was basically stating that it would be better for idle hands to gather an agricultural product than sitting on a porch all day waiting for government subsidies. The point is I don't have black welfare people sitting on porches being slaves to federal handouts, where I live. I have white trash Weed smoking people sitting on their porches being slaves to government handouts.
Bundy is toast. The feds will control that whole valley.

[JK/SEA]

The point is I don't have black welfare people sitting on porches being slaves to federal handouts, where I live. I have white trash Weed smoking people sitting on their porches being slaves to government handouts.
Bundy is toast. The feds will control that whole valley.

so be it i suppose.

next.

[AuH20]

Cliven is a throwback to a different time.

Yup. He may be a bigot but I don't think he's a white supremacist. I really can't refute his general argument either. The abortion rates & crime/welfare statistics prove that out. The black community has not fared well since LBJ's great society initiative.

[William Tell]

No he didn't,,, but that is the spin that many are buying in to.

A lot of people picked cotton after slavery ended. He was suggesting that they work for a living, rather than sitting on a Government funded porch.

I remember a bunch of bullshit behind the Duck Dynasty Guys saying the same thing,, about picking cotton.
Poor white folks picked cotton too.

I know people who have picked cotton, they all happen to be white.

[specsaregood]

Rightfully so with Rand doing outreach. F*ckin' people just do not know how to keep their mouth shut when fighting a PR war. This will now paint any militia members that support him as racists also furthering the anti-militia resentment.
I hate people. Damned if I don't.

Indeed. This guy might as well have just killed himself on live air. Its a shame too, as he was winning; unforced error here.

[AuH20]

The point is I don't have black welfare people sitting on porches being slaves to federal handouts, where I live. I have white trash Weed smoking people sitting on their porches being slaves to government handouts. Bundy is toast. The feds will control that whole valley.

The TPTB want us all to end up like "the negro." Low income whites are following the same model of destruction. The number one enemy of social engineers is a stable family unit because in most cases it gives you an identity and self-respect.

[pcosmar]

Just for your Leftist Propaganda Education..

I present this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlTr-tXiqDc

[JK/SEA]

Indeed. This guy might as well have just killed himself on live air. Its a shame too, as he was winning; unforced error here.

lol...if you say so...

[ClydeCoulter]

Cliven isn't a good PR man, that's for sure. He thinks out loud a bit too much for facing the camera often. He also had trouble stating his case at the start, but his sons came in to aid, as well as some internet researchers.

[brandon]

Doesn't surprise me that something this stupid would come out of this guys mouth. I like to think of myself as a race realist (meaning most PC liberals would call me a racist), but what this guy said is just disgusting. He's a completely uneducated, close minded, and hateful. Him and Richard Mack are almost caricatures of the low intelligence, racist, white "freeman" types.

These are not people that I feel I have anything in common with or want as political allies.

[mz10]

Bundy was basically stating that it would be better for idle hands to gather an agricultural product than sitting on a porch all day waiting for government subsidies.

If that's what he meant, he should have said that. Instead of talking about "Negroes picking cotton"

Seriously, you DON'T talk about Negroes picking cotton. Like, that should be rule #1 when giving a press conference.

[donnay]

Court of public opinion is worse than the controlled court rooms today. What a freakin' shame.

[ClydeCoulter]

Just for your Leftist Propaganda Education..

I present this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlTr-tXiqDc

People aren't listening, Pete, they just keep posting. :(

[phill4paul]

No he didn't,,, but that is the spin that many are buying in to.

A lot of people picked cotton after slavery ended. He was suggesting that they work for a living, rather than sitting on a Government funded porch.

I remember a bunch of bullshit behind the Duck Dynasty Guys saying the same thing,, about picking cotton.
Poor white folks picked cotton too.

But that is not how he framed it Pete. It's there in black and white. He said "Are they better of as slaves, picking cotton..."

We can all argue the merits of what he was trying to convey till we are blue in the face. But as far as his cause goes he has done himself more harm than good in the way that he framed his rant or even in the particular need to make his rant regarding this. Can we agree on that?

[specsaregood]

lol...if you say so...
If you don't think this guy just really hurt his chances of survival and decreased his public support then you are delusional.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XvEHsGSf6VU

[brandon]

Just for your Leftist Propaganda Education..

I present this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlTr-tXiqDc

Ahh yes the classic "One time a black man made commentary about welfare, and therefore that justifies all racist behavior by white men" argument.

[ClydeCoulter]

Ahh yes the classic "One time a black man criticized his own race and therefore that justifies all racist behavior by white men" argument.

Criticizing? Or, trying to bring reality to the forefront? Is Walter a "Self hating black"?

Perhaps a new conversation in America is going to start from this.

[Wadesc]

KABOOM

*crackling radiation detector sounds*

He just suicided himself and will take down with him anyone who continues to support him in the vicious world of public opinion. BLM and media is going to mop this up real quick.

Almost cartoonishly ridiculous.

[specsaregood]

This really sucks as I was just defending this guy over the past weekend to my mom, mil and other family over easter. Now I'm gonna get hit with this shit next we talk.

[phill4paul]

People aren't listening, Pete, they just keep posting. :(

Pete's not telling us something most of us don't already know. Neither did Bundy. But, dammit, it was an idiotic thing to say. It was poorly worded and it provides fodder for those in opposition to Bundy's cause. Anyone that doesn't understand that is not listening to what others are posting.

[klamath]

This maybe why the western cattlemen association wouldn't support him. They may have know he could turn into their worst PR nightmare.

[ClydeCoulter]

This really sucks as I was just defending this guy over the past weekend to my mom, mil and other family over easter. Now I'm gonna get hit with this shit next we talk.

Yes, I'm not looking forward to opening a twitter window in the browser, either. I was just defending Cliven, last night, against a guy (that has many followers) whose profile says "Tea Partiers fear me".

[mz10]

Court of public opinion is worse than the controlled court rooms today. What a freakin' shame.

Court of public opinion? He said blacks should still be slaves picking cotton!

I guess this is how we operate - Rand Paul says one thing that isn't libertarian enough and we crucify him. Cliven Bundy argues for the enslavement of an entire race, and we say that "his argument has some merit."

Come on guys. Cliven Bundy is the best thing that's happened to the Feds (which is probably why they picked him to go after). Focus on defeating government tyranny through the legislative process. Don't get swept up in toxic messes like this just for the sake of being contrarian.

[ClydeCoulter]

Pete's not telling us something most of us don't already know. Neither did Bundy. But, dammit, it was an idiotic thing to say. It was poorly worded and it provides fodder for those in opposition to Bundy's cause. Anyone that doesn't understand that is not listening to what others are posting.

I do understand what you are saying. And I agree that this will be a PR nightmare. Now, let's see if any of those that are actually affected by those things that he was "musing" about will come out loudly to promote a healthy conversation, or whether they will be silent and let it go the way of a media death.

[pcosmar]

Seriously, you DON'T talk about Negroes picking cotton.

What about white folks picking cotton? It was a job..
My first one was working in a logging camp at 12,, My brother an I were the only "whites" on the crew.

There are a lot of folks in this country that know what work is. and what welfare is.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhEHB0a7Uyg

[specsaregood]

Yes, I'm not looking forward to opening a twitter window in the browser, either. I was just defending Cliven, last night, against a guy (that has many followers) whose profile says "Tea Partiers fear me".

I couldn't give a shit about twitter. I'm talking about family and friends, people that I got on bundy's side (including some democrats/Hillary supporters); people whose opinion I actually care about. The same people that I had to convice Ron Paul wasn't a racist. And these people that are not going to side with anything/anyone considered remotely racist. Its just the way it is. This was an unforced error.

[phill4paul]

Court of public opinion? He said blacks should still be slaves picking cotton!

I guess this is how we operate - Rand Paul says one thing that isn't libertarian enough and we crucify him. Cliven Bundy argues for the enslavement of an entire race, and we say that "his argument has some merit."

Come on guys. Cliven Bundy is the best thing that's happened to the Feds (which is probably why they picked him to go after). Focus on defeating government tyranny through the legislative process. Don't get swept up in toxic messes like this just for the sake of being contrarian.

Point of contention. He did not say they should still be slaves. He said that he wondered if they would not be better off.

[AuH20]

I do understand what you are saying. And I agree that this will be a PR nightmare. Now, let's see if any of those that are actually affected by those things that he was "musing" about will come out loudly to promote a healthy conversation, or whether they will be silent and let it go the way of a media death.

I'm numb to it. The MSM will do as they like. I think Cliven Bundy's personal views are not integral to the argument at hand, which is that the federal government willfully altered his grazing rights agreement on a fabricated technicality (the desert tortoise), thus jeopardizing his livelihood. For the non-sheeple, that's really the crux of the argument. The rest of this is just noise.

[ClydeCoulter]

I couldn't give a shit about twitter. I'm talking about family and friends, people that I got on bundy's side (including some democrats/Hillary supporters); people whose opinion I actually care about. The same people that I had to convice Ron Paul wasn't a racist. And these people that are not going to side with anything/anyone considered remotely racist. Its just the way it is. This was an unforced error.

I don't care about twitter, either, other than it is a vehicle for hundreds to discuss issues. Those close to me are better informed, I make a point of it everyday. But, sorry, my post was not trying to undermine your situation.

[Wadesc]

Haha David Allen Coe is a perfect fit for this situation

[phill4paul]

I do understand what you are saying. And I agree that this will be a PR nightmare. Now, let's see if any of those that are actually affected by those things that he was "musing" about will come out loudly to promote a healthy conversation, or whether they will be silent and let it go the way of a media death.

I can assure you that there will not be a healthy conversation regarding this. I can assure you the media will not be silent and that if death comes it will be spun to label it as the deaths of white supremacists and that will be the end of that.

[klamath]

I'm numb to it. The MSM will do as they like. I think Cliven Bundy's personal views are not integral to the argument at hand, which is that the federal government willfully altered his grazing rights agreement on a fabricated technicality (the desert tortoise), thus jeopardizing his livelihood. For the non-sheeple, that's really the crux of the argument. The rest of this is just noise.And that is what he should have stuck to. Now he has actually set that whole argument back worse.

[William Tell]

Doesn't surprise me that something this stupid would come out of this guys mouth. I like to think of myself as a race realist (meaning most PC liberals would call me a racist), but what this guy said is just disgusting. He's a completely uneducated, close minded, and hateful. Him and Richard Mack are almost caricatures of the low intelligence, racist, white "freeman" types.

These are not people that I feel I have anything in common with or want as political allies.

Sheriff Mack is one of my heroes.

[AuH20]

And that is what he should have stuck to. Now he has actually set that whole argument back worse.

Being the genuine article often means that you're not PC. He's a very poor communicator.

[ClydeCoulter]

Sheriff Mack is one of my heroes.

Sheriff Mack's comments on "Put women and children on the front lines" has been a really big deal with the left-propaganda machine. That was way out of line for him to do.

[Natural Citizen]

I think that Cliven is just speaking in a way that is a product of his age. Heck, most of the older people that I know still use the term "coloreds".

[JK/SEA]

And that is what he should have stuck to. Now he has actually set that whole argument back worse.

so you're saying the Cliven statements on his racial views are tied in with the BLM attacks?...and now the BLM attacks were justified?

[William Tell]

Sheriff Mack's comments on "Put women and children on the front lines" has been a really big deal with the left-propaganda machine. That was way out of line for him to do.

I know.

[JK/SEA]

I think that Cliven is just speaking in a way that is a product of his age. Heck, most of the older people that I know still use the term "coloreds".

yep...but there appears to be a younger mindset in here with regards to Clivens statements, and the fact that real life experiences and culture up bringing in Clivens generation is not to be tolerated, and his statements are fair game in destroying him, and fuck this BLM issue, Cliven is a monster now...

yawn.

[klamath]

so you're saying the Cliven statements on his racial views are tied in with the BLM attacks?...and now the BLM attacks were justified?It is not what I am saying at all. The BLM wants them off the land but was losing the PR war. They coundn't gun him down without losing the PR war. Bundy just gave them that win.

[Wadesc]

A product of his times. Of course he is, thats what made this whole thing so predictable. You think anyone cares? The public wont split hairs here, and I don't think I will. But those comments were...

So...

Sooooo...

So Ill conceived that everyone with an ounce of common sense and had anything to do with him just felt their soul drop down into their bellies and out from under them to a far off place. I felt guilty holding my cards pretty tight, and now i'm glad I did.

Dude is toast.

[ravedown]

bundy did the MSN a huge favor. proved what they all suspected and now they can paint his supporters including political candidates as kooks and bigots. this will be a far bigger story than the standoff. huge win for progressives. there will be celebrating at the Reid headquarters today.

[JK/SEA]

It is not what I am saying at all. The BLM wants them off the land but was losing the PR war. They coundn't gun him down without losing the PR war. Bundy just gave them that win.


the BLM 'issue' is not over, and i doubt Clivens views will be relevant in any court battles....but the way some in here are talking, it appears no one in here will bat an eye lash if if the FEDS blow Bundy to hell...amirite?....

[klamath]

bundy did the MSN a huge favor. proved what they all suspected and now they can paint his supporters including political candidates as kooks and bigots. this will be a far bigger story than the standoff. huge win for progressives. there will be celebrating at the Reid headquarters today. I almost wonder if NYT's asked him about blacks to get him the say "About Negros" and even address it.

[AuH20]

the BLM 'issue' is not over, and i doubt Clivens views will be relevant in any court battles....but the way some in here are talking, it appears no one in here will bat an eye lash if if the FEDS blow Bundy to hell...amirite?....

Koresh deserved it. So did Weaver. Didn't you hear?

[William Tell]

Koresh deserved it. So did Weaver. Didn't you hear?

And you and I will deserve it when they come for us.

[AuH20]

The next time you run into a misnformed sheep running their mouth. Ask them the following. What was worse? Cliven Bundy's comments or the Tuskegee experiment? It's time to stop cowering when they bring up race to suit their ends. Knowledge is power against these maniacs.

[ravedown]

now bundy is being labelled "tea party" see how this works? ha, so predictable.

[Thor]

Very poor form. True or false, (they are trying to make us all slaves to the government, race aside), from a different generation or not, calling out race was a subject that was not relevant to the issue at hand and he just alienated a huge swath of support. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

No matter how much people support[ed] his fight against the Feds, they would now have to be guilty by association if they continue to support him when he publicly stated those views. There was no reason for him to stand up at his press conference and spout that view and mix the issues. Dumb ass.

I still support his fight against the Fed, but to stand "behind him" with those views is near impossible. PR facepalm... or more like PR naplam.

Again, dumb ass.

Harry Greed has a twisted sick little smirk on his face now....

[JK/SEA]

The next time you run into a misnformed sheep runing their mouth. Ask them the following. What was worse? Cliven Bundy's comments or the Tuskegee experiment? It's time to stop cowering when they bring up race to suit their ends. Knowledge is power against these maniacs.

i was told Cliven could walk on water...

[JK/SEA]

now bundy is being labelled "tea party" see how this works? ha, so predictable.

so?

[Brian4Liberty]

Cliven was born in a different time, different lifestyle. He grew up with this mindset. If using the term Negro is an issue with people then i submit those who scorn Cliven are mental midgets, and should be ignored. Tolerance is the key, coupled with an understanding of where Cliven is coming from.

Cliven is an old man, who has lived out in the middle of nowhere his whole life. The word "negro" was not a bad word to him, or to anyone of that age. This is the result of cultural Marxism. Redefine words, and it allows them to smear or destroy anybody who uses the old word. Doubleplus ungood speech, comrade.


It was the way that he framed it. You might find a handful of people that believe negroes, blacks, afro-americans (what ever the hell they choose to label themselves these days) were better off as slaves. And this rant of his simply did not need to be issued. At all. It does nothing but harm for his cause.

Yep, he framed it very badly. Someone could interpret it as saying that black people would be better off as slaves. That would be a stupid thing to say. No one is better off as an actual slave. But people do like to compare today's situation with slavery, more in a big picture sense, rather than an actual, specific comparison to the horrors of barbaric punishments and permanent prisoner status on a plantation.


Cliven is a throwback to a different time.

Yep, old people will use words like that, especially isolated on a farm, chasing cows around. He probably doesn't spend enough time in front of the idiot box for proper Marxist indoctrination, in order to keep up with which words he is no longer allowed to use.

[BamaAla]

He's done. Anyone who had hitched to that issue better unhitch very quickly.

[EBounding]

Well the progressive won that chess match. The set him up as a welfare rancher and he fell right into their trap by going off on a black welfare rant. Check and mate.

I'm especially POed at Bundy because this issue was much bigger than him and now he's made it a lot harder for anyone fighting federal overreach.

[Ecolibertarian]

That Cliven Bundy used the word "negro" is not the whole problem. The statement would not have been acceptable had he used the term "African-Americans" or "black people." The sentiment is the problem. Bundy did not simply misspeak. He expressed the opinion that black people in America, even if their needs are supplied, need to be kept distracted by some diversionary task in order to prevent them from committing crimes. That somehow welfare makes people more likely to have abortions (not that I have a problem with abortion). And that social safety nets (which I agree should be eliminated) constitute a deprivation of liberty greater than the ownership of a person as a tool. The most stringent extant and proposed regulations for welfare recipients, including drug testing, the requirement that recipients seek employment, etc. do not come to even a fraction of the deprivation of liberty that is slavery.

[Tod]

Instead of questioning the days of slavery versus the days of welfare, he could have pointed out the days of pre-welfare to the days of welfare and pointed out just how destructive welfare has been to the black community. He could have repeated Johnson's quote about having them all voting Democrat for the next 200 years.



Or he could have just kept his mouth shut knowing that broaching that topic in the slightest, no matter how accurately, eloquently and well-thought out, would result in the media bashing him from here to kingdom come.

[William Tell]

The most stringent extant and proposed regulations for welfare recipients, including drug testing, the requirement that recipients seek employment, etc. do not come to even a fraction of the deprivation of liberty that is slavery.

What of those who are forced to pay for those things? Are they enslaved?

[Natural Citizen]

Best thing that he could do is to continue to use the same language that he did. People may not believe that, but it's the best thing.

[AuH20]

That Cliven Bundy used the word "negro" is not the whole problem. The statement would not have been acceptable had he used the term "African-Americans" or "black people." The sentiment is the problem. Bundy did not simply misspeak. He expressed the opinion that black people in America, even if their needs are supplied, need to be kept distracted by some diversionary task in order to prevent them from committing crimes. That somehow welfare makes people more likely to have abortions (not that I have a problem with abortion). And that social safety nets (which I agree should be eliminated) constitute a deprivation of liberty greater than the ownership of a person as a tool. The most stringent extant and proposed regulations for welfare recipients, including drug testing, the requirement that recipients seek employment, etc. do not come to even a fraction of the deprivation of liberty that is slavery.



He never implied that. He simply stated that sitting on a porch for days on end isn't a viable gameplan. Why would anyone want to be dependent on the whims of another? There is an element of control exerted through these programs.

[kahless]

He's done. Anyone who had hitched to that issue better unhitch very quickly.

I think it is about time for people to take a stand against the Progressives and not cower or back down in fear whenever they pull the race card out of their ass.

[BamaAla]

I think it is about time for people to take a stand against the Progressives and not cower or back down in fear whenever they pull the race card out of their ass.

Pick your battles. This one is not winnable and unworthy of burning up political capital on.

[AuH20]

I think it is about time for people to take a stand against the Progressives and not cower or back down in fear whenever they pull the race card out of their ass.

Agreed. Stop playing within their desired parameters. Roll out Margaret Sanger and LBJ with regularity. Who are the real racists? Who are the ones who actively promote the bigotry of low expectations within our many institutions? Who are the ones who deem a certain color unfit for birth?

[Brian4Liberty]

That Cliven Bundy used the word "negro" is not the whole problem. The statement would not have been acceptable had he used the term "African-Americans" or "black people." The sentiment is the problem. Bundy did not simply misspeak. He expressed the opinion that black people in America, even if their needs are supplied, need to be kept distracted by some diversionary task in order to prevent them from committing crimes. That somehow welfare makes people more likely to have abortions (not that I have a problem with abortion). And that social safety nets (which I agree should be eliminated) constitute a deprivation of liberty greater than the ownership of a person as a tool. The most stringent extant and proposed regulations for welfare recipients, including drug testing, the requirement that recipients seek employment, etc. do not come to even a fraction of the deprivation of liberty that is slavery.

Yes, it is a huge mistake to single out any group when addressing the evils of welfare. Welfare has negative side effects and unintended consequences for all who use it, and all racial and ethnic groups do use welfare.

Likewise, the old saying that "idle hands are the devil's workshop" is not race, gender or age specific either.

[Ecolibertarian]

He never implied that. He simply stated that sitting on a porch for days on end isn't a viable gameplan. Why would anyone want to be dependent on the whims of another? There is an element of control exerted through these programs.

He also said, "And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton." And perhaps there is an element of control, as I noted. But, to quote Bastiat, "since man is naturally inclined to avoid pain--and since labor is pain in itself--it follows that men will resort to plunder whenever plunder is easier than work."


What of those who are forced to pay for those things? Are they enslaved?

Arguably. But Bundy was not, in the excerpt quoted, complaining about the confiscation of property from some to distribute it to others. He was saying that the recipients are the ones who have lost freedom.

[kahless]

Pick your battles. This one is not winnable and unworthy of burning up political capital on.

If you have a national campaign or seeking office where Progressive votes matter then one should tread carefully. Promote the bigger picture and not focus on just one family. It should be fairly easy to find another victimized family that does not give ammunition to the Progressives that they can use or misconstrue.

[donnay]

Cliven Bundy is on Alex Jones right now and he emphatically denies the "pickin' cotton" remark. NYT is making things up. He has a black militia man guarding his house right now. He is not a racists. The man sits at his dinner table.

[AuH20]

Cliven Bundy is on Alex Jones right now and he emphatically denies the "pickin' cotton" remark. NYT is making things up. He has a black militia man guarding his house right now. He is not a racists.

I read that the NYT reporter is notoriously known as a gatekeeper type for past admins (Clinton) especially. Could be CIA? If they are willing to blow up a federal building to accomplish their goals, what's a few edited words?

[69360]

I figured it was a matter of time until he got baited into something like this. FWIW it could have been a lot worse and he is technically right.

He's going to get Randy Weavered now. Better keep the wife away from the door.

[Czolgosz]

The Human mind is easily distracted and easily controlled.

[AuH20]

Bundy is stating the NY Times is slandering him. Psy Ops at work.

[donnay]

I read that the NYT reporter is notoriously known as a gatekeeper type for past admins (Clinton) especially. Could be CIA? If they are willing to blow up a federal building to accomplish their goals, what's a few edited words?


A couple of weeks ago they (NYT) got caught for Photoshopping Russian troops in the Ukraine.

[JK/SEA]

The Human mind is easily distracted and easily controlled.

no shit...

we like shiny things that spin...

[JK/SEA]

Bundy is stating the NY Times is slandering him. Psy Ops at work.

i smell a harry rat in this one...

[AuH20]

The Human mind is easily distracted and easily controlled.

A nation of emotional twits that can be easily manipulated. Meanwhile, one of the most racist organizations on the planet is the U.S. Federal government.

[Thor]

OK, so where is the toob of the press conference... Let see if the words came out of his mouth.

[kahless]

I figured it was a matter of time until he got baited into something like this. FWIW it could have been a lot worse and he is technically right.

He's going to get Randy Weavered now. Better keep the wife away from the door.

I could see something coming from the first few interviews. You put a camera and mic in front of anyone not accustomed to public speaking and they will eventually say something unintentional or that can be misconstrued or spun into something sinister.

I was hoping those covering it would focus on others as well so the Progressives could not kill the story using one individual as a poster child. It is a good thing Texas and Utah land grabs are being mixed in the coverage as well.

[AuH20]

CIA headquarters: Guys, we can't just go in there with guns blazing unless he's viewed as a villain by the general public. Somebody call the editor at the New York Times.


And if you are so foolishly naive to think that the CIA doesn't operate domestically, then I have a bridge to sell you. They had agents at OKC.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700020756/Ruling-reveals-CIA-involvement-in-Oklahoma-City-bombing-investigation.html?pg=all

[PRB]

Your ignorance is much more insulting.

We are all slaves for the bankers.

"None are so hopelessly enslaves as those who falsely believe they are free."

I don't think actual slaves are allowed to argue with me like you do online.

[NIU Students for Liberty]

What a fucking moron, as well as those here who are rationalizing his comments. It's no wonder why the "heartless/white privileged" stereotype is applied to libertarians.

Does welfare do more harm than good? Yes. Is it worse than physical bondage? No, not even close.

Don't lecture the anarchists on how to frame their arguments because we're somehow hurting the advancement of libertarianism and Rand's 2016 election hopes when you're defending Bundy's beliefs that completely contradict everything you claim to be fighting for.

Now if the NYT lied and it turns out that Bundy never made these comments, fine.

[PRB]

You don't need physical chains to imprison someone. You take away all hope and rob them of self-empowerment & I'll argue you that you can keep them in the desired caste. It's behavioral conditioning 101. Now I'm not saying this was done entirely on purpose (though we must wonder why the illegal drug trade specifically targets African Americans and the fact that there seems to be a liquor store on every corner in the hood), but it certainly makes you wonder.

just like you don't need a physical gun to kill somebody? please.

[PRB]

Yes, those on welfare do seem to prefer that form of slavery.

over actual slavery in a chain and being whipped, I assume you're talking about. Am I wrong?

[klamath]

I'm especially POed at Bundy because this issue was much bigger than him and now he's made it a lot harder for anyone fighting federal overreach.He had to inject race into an issue that had absolutely no point in the issue.

[PRB]

He had to inject race into an issue that had absolutely no point in the issue.

which one is it? is what he said true or is he injecting an irrelevant opinion? can't be both!

Either he's speaking the truth or he's actually racist, which one is it?

[thoughtomator]

Pretty wild to watch the government in action as it engineers a political assassination (and possible mass murder), isn't it?

[AuH20]

I don't think actual slaves are allowed to argue with me like you do online.

What is the end result though? Generational poverty with a few creature comforts thrown in? Lives are being systematically destroyed and no one is the wiser. The stealth aspect of welfare makes its worse than slavery in that respect. The welfare state reminds me of a electro shock canine perimeter as opposed to the physical manifestation of actual bars.

[William Tell]

over actual slavery in a chain and being whipped

If you think that is the definition of slavery, you are gravely mistaken. I meant those on welfare prefer it to other forms of slavery.

[phill4paul]

Cliven Bundy is on Alex Jones right now and he emphatically denies the "pickin' cotton" remark. NYT is making things up. He has a black militia man guarding his house right now. He is not a racists. The man sits at his dinner table.

If this is the case then a lawsuit needs to be filed TODAY and a PR firm needs to be hired to get on top of this. This reporters career needs to be ended. The NYT needs to pay damages.

[donnay]

I don't think actual slaves are allowed to argue with me like you do online.

:rolleyes:


Ignorance is bliss...

[William Tell]

http://republicbroadcasting.org/A%20VISITOR%20FROM%20THE%20PAST_files/image001.jpg
A VISITOR FROM THE PAST
by Thelen Paulk
I had a dream the other night, I didn't understand.
A figure walking through the mist, with flintlock in his hand.
His clothes were torn and dirty, as he stood there by the bed,
He took off his three-cornered hat, and speaking low, he said:
"We fought a revolution, to secure our liberty.
We wrote the Constitution, as a shield from tyranny,
For future generations, this legacy we gave,
In this, the land of the free and the home of the brave."
"The freedom we secured for you, we hoped you'd always keep.
But tyrants labored endlessly, while your parents were asleep.
Your freedom gone, your courage lost, you're no more
than a slave,
In this, the land of the free and the home of the brave."
"You buy permits to travel, and permits to own a gun,
Permits to start a business, or to build a place for one.
On land that you believe you own, you pay a yearly rent,
Although you have no voice in choosing how the money's spent."
"Your children must attend a school that doesn't educate.
Your Christian values can't be taught, according to the state.
You read about the current news, in a regulated press.
You pay a tax you do not owe, to please the I.R.S."
"Your money is no longer made of silver or of gold.
You trade your wealth for paper, so your life can be controlled.
You pay for crimes that make our nation turn from God in shame,
You've taken Satan's number, as you've traded in your name."
"You've given government control to those who do you harm,
So they can padlock churches, and steal the family farm,
And keep the country deep in debt, put men of God in jail,
Harass your fellow countrymen, while corrupted courts prevail."
"Your public servants don't uphold the solemn oath they've sworn.
Your daughters visit doctors so their children won't be born.
Your leaders ship artillery and guns to foreign shores,
And send your sons to slaughter, fighting other people's wars."
"Can you regain freedom for which we fought and died?
Or don't you have the courage or the faith to stand with pride?
Are there no more values for which you'll fight to save?
Or do you wish your children to live in fear and be a slave?"
"Sons of the Republic, arise and take a stand!
Defend the Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land!
Preserve our great republic and each God-given right,
And pray to God to keep the torch of freedom burning bright!"
As I awoke he vanished, in the mist from which he came.
His words were true, we are not free. We have ourselves to blame.
For even now as tyrants trample each God-given right,
We only watch and tremble, too afraid to stand and fight.
If he stood by your bedside, in a dream while you're asleep,
And wondered what remains of our rights he fought to keep,
What would be your answer, if he called out from the grave?
Is this still the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave?

[AuH20]

:rolleyes:


Ignorance is bliss...

Only in 'Murica would slaves actively rebel to keep their 'chains' AKA known as benefits. That is the beauty of the system they have created. Huxley touched on this bizarre phenomenon.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PbhkML007Q

[limequat]

The account I read, suggest there was *one* reporter on the scene of this conference. If that one reporter was NYT, we know goddamn well this whole thing was engineered.

Edit: according to the NYT "story" this happened on Saturday. And by the reporter's account, he was the only reporter there.

hxxp://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/us/politics/rancher-proudly-breaks-the-law-becoming-a-hero-in-the-west.html?_r=0

[Thor]

OK, so where is the toob of the press conference... Let see if the words came out of his mouth.


The account I read, suggest there was *one* reporter on the scene of this conference. If that one reporter was NYT, we know goddamn well this whole thing was engineered.

Again, I would like to see the toob of the words coming out of his mouth... Not some printed ink by a NYT reporter.

If he DID say these things, then I stand by my original comments about this issue.

If this is media manipulation (but we know that never happens), then we need to double down.

[limequat]

The account I read, suggest there was *one* reporter on the scene of this conference. If that one reporter was NYT, we know goddamn well this whole thing was engineered.

Reporter: Adam Nagourney

[klamath]

The account I read, suggest there was *one* reporter on the scene of this conference. If that one reporter was NYT, we know goddamn well this whole thing was engineered. Well somebody better come up with video showing Bundy never went on about Negros. If they can do that it would be a major PR Coup that would turn badly against the feds.

[specsaregood]

Clearly this was an inside job from the beginning: Bundy was in on it with Reid and it was all a setup to demonize militia and small govt supporters.

[ClydeCoulter]

Well somebody better come up with video showing Bundy never went on about Negros. If they can do that it would be a major PR Coup that would turn badly against the feds.

Notice that the video, only part I could find, starts late ("one more thing I could tell ya about...", What did he say before that and after?)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqiX95YB_sw

[Valli6]

FWIW
Let's not forget that Harry Reid is the man who praised Obama for not having any "Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one."
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/09/obama.reid/

Apparently the term "negroe" is still in use by older people of Nevada.

So Bundy is claiming this is slander? Waiting to hear more....

[AuH20]

Beck follows Nagourney's lead. This looks like a setup.

[AuH20]

Clearly this was an inside job from the beginning: Bundy was in on it with Reid and it was all a setup to demonize militia and small govt supporters.

Not if he is killed.

[limequat]

For those that don't want to give NYT traffic:

BUNKERVILLE, Nev. — Cliven Bundy stood by the Virgin River up the road from the armed checkpoint at the driveway of his ranch, signing autographs and posing for pictures. For 55 minutes, Mr. Bundy held forth to a clutch of supporters about his views on the troubled state of America — the overreaching federal government, the harassment of Western ranchers, the societal upheaval caused by abortion, even musing about whether slavery was so bad.

Most of all, Mr. Bundy, 67, who was wearing a broad-brimmed white cowboy hat against the hot afternoon sun, recounted the success of “we the people” — gesturing to the 50 supporters, some armed with handguns and rifles, standing in a semicircle before him — at chasing away Bureau of Land Management rangers who, acting on a court order, tried to confiscate 500 cattle owned by Mr. Bundy, who has been illegally grazing his herd on public land since 1993.
Continue reading the main story
Related Coverage

After Supporting Rancher, Paul Condemns His Remarks on BlacksAPRIL 24, 2014

“They don’t have the guts enough to try to start that again for a few years,” Mr. Bundy said in an interview.
Photo
Protesters claiming government overreach in Nevada paused to observe the national anthem. Credit Jason Bean/Las Vegas Review-Journal, via Associated Press

Mr. Bundy’s standoff with federal rangers — propelled into the national spotlight in part by steady coverage by Fox News — has highlighted sharp divisions over the power of the federal government and the rights of landowners in places like this desert stretch of Nevada, where resentment of Washington and its sprawling ownership of Western land has long run deep.

His cause has won support from Senator Rand Paul, the libertarian Republican from Kentucky who is likely to run for president. Senator Dean Heller, a Nevada Republican, referred to Mr. Bundy’s supporters as “patriots.” Senator Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who is the Senate majority leader and has a long history of pushing for protection of public lands, denounced the rancher’s supporters as “domestic terrorists.”

The dispute spilled over this week into Texas, where Greg Abbott, the attorney general and a Republican running for governor, challenged the Bureau of Land Management on reports that it was looking to claim thousands of acres along the Red River.

For now, Mr. Bundy appears to have won, forcing the government to back down after its rangers were met with armed Bundy supporters this month.

“The gather is now over,” said Craig Leff, a deputy assistant director with the Bureau of Land Management. “Our focus is pursuing this matter administratively and judicially.”
Photo
His sympathizers include dozens of militia members, many carrying weapons. Credit Jim Urquhart/Reuters

But if the federal government has moved on, Mr. Bundy — a father of 14 and a registered Republican — has not.

He said he would continue holding a daily news conference; on Saturday, it drew one reporter and one photographer, so Mr. Bundy used the time to officiate at what was in effect a town meeting with supporters, discussing, in a long, loping discourse, the prevalence of abortion, the abuses of welfare and his views on race.
Continue reading the main story
Featured Comment
pnelson
Northern California

Mr. Bundy flies the U.S. flag and his friends acknowledge the national anthem but refuse to pay for the use of public lands. He is a welfare cheat, or a 'welfare rancher.'

1185 Comments
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“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.
Continue reading the main story

“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

A spokesman for Mr. Paul, informed of Mr. Bundy’s remarks, said the senator was not available for immediate comment. Chandler Smith, a spokesman for Mr. Heller, said that the senator “completely disagrees with Mr. Bundy’s appalling and racist statements, and condemns them in the most strenuous way.” A spokeswoman for Mr. Abbott, Laura Bean, said that the letter he wrote “was regarding a dispute in Texas and is in no way related to the dispute in Nevada.”
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UTAH

80

20 miles

Mesquite

UTAH

NEVADA

nevada

Bunkerville

93

Virgin River

CLARK

COUNTY



Area of detail

15

Las

Vegas

california

GOLD

BUTTE



ARIZ.

Las Vegas

15

100 miles

ARIZONA

The crowds may be beginning to dwindle, but for much of the past two weeks, here at Mr. Bundy’s ranch in Bunkerville, 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas, the rancher has been a celebrity, drawing hundreds of supporters, including dozens of militia members, many carrying sidearms, and members of Oath Keepers, a militia group, who have embraced him as a symbol of their anger and a bulwark against federal abuse.

He was honored at a celebratory party on Friday night attended by 1,500 people, who wore “domestic terrorist” name tags, listened to cowboy poetry and ate hamburgers, hot dogs and Bundy beef. “This is the beginning of taking America back,” said Shawna Cox, who had come from Kanab, Utah, to support him.

Mr. Bundy, whose family has grazed cattle here since they homesteaded in the 1870s, owes the government more than $1 million in grazing fees. He stopped paying after the bureau ordered him to restrict the periods when his herd roamed the 600,000-acre Gold Butte area as part of an effort to protect the endangered desert tortoise.

Mr. Bundy’s case happened to heat up around the time that Mr. Paul, building the foundation for a presidential campaign, struck a chord with some members of the Republican Party with warnings about governmental overreach. Mr. Paul’s latest book is titled “Government Bullies: How Everyday Americans Are Being Harassed, Abused and Imprisoned by the Feds.” In the Bundy standoff, Mr. Paul has criticized the federal government as overreaching with its use of regulations, but cautioned against any violence or lawbreaking.

Rob Mrowka, a senior scientist with the Center for Biological Diversity, which has been battling to get Mr. Bundy to move his cattle in deference to the tortoises, said the standoff had come to symbolize divisions across the country about the role of government, particularly here in the West.
Photo
Sympathizers have embraced Mr. Bundy as a symbol of their anger and a bulwark against federal abuse. Credit Ronda Churchill for The New York Times

“It’s symbolic of the polarization and divide within the country that we saw starting with the Obama election,” he said. “This is merely a surrogate for bigger issue and topic in America today — it’s the whole idea of federalism versus states.”

The federal government owns 85 percent of the land in Nevada, a statistic repeatedly noted by Mr. Bundy’s supporters as they denounced the actions of the government. Six cattle, including two that had Bundy brands, died during the attempt to collect the animals.
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Recent Comments
parik
8 minutes ago

Well, lordy, I don't know whether I should be in mourning for invention of the Cotton Gin or filled with relief. This country gained...
Mistermort
10 minutes ago

Reading Adam Nagourney's piece this morning was a shocking wake up call. There is absolutely no excuse for the government to delay the...
Hugh Briss
10 minutes ago

For once, FoxNews isn't headlining Cliven Bundy's latest antics.

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“Western states don’t have the control over their land that Eastern states have over their land,” said Ivan Jones, 60, a brick mason who came here from Northern California. “Someone like the Bundys, they have been here for generations, before the B.L.M. was ever created, using this land to graze their animals. And the B.L.M. comes in and changes the rule. A small little rancher trying to make a living and they come in like big bullies.”

Toby Purvis, 51, an electrician who came here from Farmington, N.M., called the bureau operation “a land grab.”

“This is happening all over the country right now,” he said.
Photo
The standoff over cattle grazing has highlighted divisions over Washington and its sprawling ownership of Western land. Credit John Locher/Las Vegas Review-Journal, via Associated Press
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Mr. Bundy’s case is clearly divisive. About 16,000 ranchers across the country pay relatively modest fees for their herds to use public land. The Nevada Cattlemen’s Association, while expressing sympathy with some of Mr. Bundy’s complaints, pointedly did not endorse his methods.

“This should not be confused with civil disobedience,” Mr. Mrowka said. “This is outright anarchy going on here.”

Mr. Bundy disputes the legitimacy of both the bureau and the courts that have ruled against him. “I’ll be damned if I’m going to honor a federal court that has no jurisdiction or authority or arresting power over we the people,” he said.

Still, as Mr. Bundy surveyed the dusty landscape last weekend, the only sign of law enforcement was Brad Rogers, the sheriff of Elkhart County, Ind., who had flown 1,800 miles to stand in solidarity with the embattled rancher.

With the rangers gone, “I don’t feel any threat — that’s a big change,” Mr. Bundy said. At the same time, he said he saw no reason for his supporters to leave. “As long as we are getting together as a group and as long as we feel good about being here, we are going to be here,” he said.

One of Mr. Bundy’s sons, Ammon, 38, a car fleet manager from Phoenix, said his father had taught the federal government a lesson. “We ran them out of here,” he said, sitting in a trailer set up near one of the protesters’ camp sites. “We were serious. We weren’t playing around.”

But Alan O’Neill, who had a similar struggle with Mr. Bundy when he was superintendent of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area, expressed concern that the government had backed down.

“He calls himself a patriot, and says he loves America,” Mr. O’Neill said. “And yet he says he won’t follow any federal laws. You just can’t let this go by, or everybody is going to be like, ‘If Bundy can break the law, why can’t I?’ ”

[belian78]

After reading that piece about infiltration of the militia out there, I'm thinkin this has to be a concerted effort. Two separate stories in the same day meant to cause suspicion of the man himself, and of each other out there protecting him? I'm not thinking coincidence.

[donnay]

On Gay New York Times Writer Adam Nagourney Coming to LA as Bureau Chief
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karen-ocamb/on-gay-emnew-york-timesem_b_497172.html

NYT's Adam Nagourney Leaves DC To Become LA Bureau Chief
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/11/nyts-nagourney-leaving-po_n_495034.html

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/148208/thumbs/r-ADAM-NAGOURNEY-LA-BUREAU-large570.jpg

[Deborah K]

Why is it that Farrakhan, Sharpton, and their ilk can get away with saying the most vile shit about white people and one old man who really didn't say anything "racist" gets lambasted??? He used old terms because he is old. He didn't call for slavery to be re-instituted, he didn't call for blacks to be hung. WTF.

I could post tube after tube after tube of black victim peddlers all damned day, vilifying whitey, even though there is a black in the Oval office.

[AuH20]

So now I'm hearing that it's not direct attribution? It's funny that the NYT ignored this story as it was happening.

[klamath]

Notice that the video, only part I could find, starts late ("one more thing I could tell ya about...", What did he say before that and after?)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqiX95YB_sw So he said it, and now he is doubling down saying he didn't say "picking cotton". Well I heard it pretty plainly there.

[ClydeCoulter]

So he said it, and now he is doubling down saying he didn't say "picking cotton". Well I heard it pretty plainly there.

It's out of context. You can tell at the very beginning. And when he said "They didn't learn to pick cotton", I took it to mean "learn to work" the way he said it, so that may be how he remembers it.

I want to see the entire talk that he gave.

[ZENemy]

ask any welfare recipient or slave which one they prefer, your comparison is ignorant and insulting to say the least.

Are you on welfare? Can you ask "any" recipient and get back to us? As of now, your making shit up and passing it off as fact.

[Deborah K]

After reading that piece about infiltration of the militia out there, I'm thinkin this has to be a concerted effort. Two separate stories in the same day meant to cause suspicion of the man himself, and of each other out there protecting him? I'm not thinking coincidence.

It probably isn't. And everything should be considered and prepared for. If we want to aid in effecting a good outcome for this situation, I think we'll need to do come to his defense using their own rhetoric against them (with regard to racist tactics), and we'll need to put the focus on Harry Reid and his corrupt practices.

[PaulConventionWV]

I didn't want to post this article but since you did. Bundy just lost a huge step in the PR war. He should have kept his mouth SHUT. If he hadn't of singled out "negros" in his diatribe against government welfare being bad his case would have been solid.

There were a million better ways to say exactly what he said with different words. For one, Negro now carries almost as much stigma as the other n word. Secondly, just... what a disaster of a comment. They never learned to pick cotton? Yeah, he definitely should have kept his mouth shut, but something tells me this was a losing game anyway. Come what may, it doesn't change the real issue here.

[Carlybee]

If this is the case then a lawsuit needs to be filed TODAY and a PR firm needs to be hired to get on top of this. This reporters career needs to be ended. The NYT needs to pay damages.

I think the whole liberty movement needs a PR firm

[AuH20]

There were a million better ways to say exactly what he said with different words. For one, Negro now carries almost as much stigma as the other n word. Secondly, just... what a disaster of a comment. They never learned to pick cotton? Yeah, he definitely should have kept his mouth shut, but something tells me this was a losing game anyway. Come what may, it doesn't change the real issue here.

He's a Mormon rancher who lives in a remote area. I don't expect him to be a wordsmith. With that said, he should have hired a PR guy as soon as the BLM left.

[klamath]

It's out of context. You can tell at the very beginning. And when he said "They didn't learn to pick cotton", I took it to mean "learn to work" the way he said it, so that may be how he remembers it.

I want to see the entire talk that he gave.Why is he talking about Negros when the issue is federal land use rules in the west. He should have NEVER opened his mouth on that no matter what the context was.

[AuH20]

Why is he talking about Negros when the issue is federal land use rules in the west. He should have NEVER opened his mouth on that no matter what the context was.

Sounds like someone baited him on a question.

[Valli6]

....I think we'll need to do come to his defense using their own rhetoric against them (with regard to racist tactics), and we'll need to put the focus on Harry Reid and his corrupt practices.
And don't forget that Harry Reid is another old Nevadan guy that uses the term "negro".


...Obama, as a black candidate, could be successful thanks, in part, to his "light-skinned" appearance and speaking patterns "with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one."
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/09/obama.reid/


In the 50"s and 60" we were taught that "negro" was the respectful term we should all use. Recall that this term was included in the latest census because some older blacks still prefer it.
----

FYI
The Census Bureau decided in 2013, to drop the term.
Feb. 26, 2013:

The U.S. Census Bureau announced it is removing the term "Negro" as an option for race on its surveys and replacing it with "black" or "African-American."

The organization had used the term on its surveys and forms for more than 100 years of use, ABC News reported Monday.

The new language will be used on the Census Bureau's annual American Community Survey next year.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/02/26/Negro-eliminated-from-US-census-forms/UPI-46441361883468/

[Deborah K]

Why is he talking about Negros when the issue is federal land use rules in the west. He should have NEVER opened his mouth on that no matter what the context was.

Good question. Where is the context for that? Was he baited?

[Deborah K]

And don't forget that Harry Reid is another old Nevadan guy that uses the term "negro".


...Obama, as a black candidate, could be successful thanks, in part, to his "light-skinned" appearance and speaking patterns "with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one."
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/09/obama.reid/



In the 50"s and 60" we were taught that "negro" was the respectful term we should all use. Recall that this term was included in the latest census because some older blacks still prefer it.

Bingo!! This is needs to be circulated everywhere that people make a fuss over Bundy's use of the word.

[CPUd]

Good question. Where is the context for that? Was he baited?

It is because they are accusing him of being a welfare rancher.

[klamath]

Sounds like someone baited him on a question.Could be but he shouldn't have been that dumb. Seems he has been following politics quite closely and should have known who the reporters were around him and what their intentions were.

[limequat]

Bingo!! This is needs to be circulated everywhere that people make a fuss over Bundy's use of the word.

No, it's a losing fight. Don't expend any political capital on this.

[Deborah K]

It is because they are accusing him of being a welfare rancher.

But in what context did Bundy feel the need to bring up blacks? What specifically was asked of him to provoke that response?

[PaulConventionWV]

Rightfully so with Rand doing outreach. F*ckin' people just do not know how to keep their mouth shut when fighting a PR war. This will now paint any militia members that support him as racists also furthering the anti-militia resentment.
I hate people. Damned if I don't.

I hear ya. What I found equally outrageous was Mo Eitheleen (sic?) saying that Rand took too long to condemn Bundy's statements because he waited 12 hours to make a public statement. What a seriously messed up thing to even point out. Thoughts travel much faster than public statements. It makes me mad, is all.

[Deborah K]

No, it's a losing fight. Don't expend any political capital on this.

No it is not! Harry Reid uses the word too! If anything, pointing that out with evidence will help squelch this.

[klamath]

Bingo!! This is needs to be circulated everywhere that people make a fuss over Bundy's use of the word. Unfortunately it wasn't just using the negro word, it was singling them out for welfare criticisms.

[Deborah K]

I hear ya. What I found equally outrageous was Mo Eitheleen (sic?) saying that Rand took too long to condemn Bundy's statements because he waited 12 hours to make a public statement. What a seriously messed up thing to even point out. Thoughts travel much faster than public statements. It makes me mad, is all.

They're pouncing on this as per usual. Are we going to just let them get away with painting Rand with this brush? Or are we going to fight back with logic, reason, and evidence that their own side does this shit all day long, everyday????

[ZENemy]

Not sure if this has been posted.

http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/ammon-bundy-n-y-times-quote-out-of-context/


Ammon Bundy told WND: “I was there standing right beside my father when he made those comments. He was reaching out to the black community.”

He explained his father was commenting on the fact that while blacks were “in slavery on plantations, now because of the welfare system, they continue to be in slavery.”

“He desires the black community to have freedom,” Ammon Bundy said.

“Growing up around him, and being beside him, I never once heard him say anything negative about any race,” Ammon Bundy said. “I wish I could say that about everyone else I’ve been around. The black community, the white community, they joke back and forth. My father’s never lowered himself.”

[Deborah K]

Unfortunately it wasn't just using the negro word, it was singling them out for welfare criticisms.

He is old and he used old terminology and analogy. He did not call for their hanging, or to re-institute slavery. He is not a racist, and we're fools if we buckle under that accusation when the opposition vilifies whitey on a daily basis, even though we have a black President. It is crazy to let the opposition run with this and paint Rand with a racist brush when there's plenty of evidence out there to prove they like to play the victim and make false accusations about white people. The double-standard needs to be exposed.

[AuH20]

He is old and he used old terminology and analogy. He did not call for their hanging, or to re-institute slavery. He is not a racist, and we're fools if we buckle under that accusation when the opposition vilifies whitey on a daily basis, even though we have a black President. It is crazy to let the opposition run with this and paint Rand with a racist brush when there's plenty of evidence out there to prove they like to play the victim and make false accusations about white people. The double-standard needs to be exposed.

And after watching the video you can tell he's not a white supremacist by his calmness and lack of stress in his voice. If he's guilty of anything, it's for being too forthright and not keen to the ways of the modern world.

[CaseyJones]

Cliven Bundy Responds To Charges Of Racism: ‘The Statement Was Right’

http://therightscoop.com/breaking-cliven-bundy-responds-to-charges-of-racism-the-statement-was-right/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6UWy9wolLg

[AuH20]

A black man (Uncle Tom :)) defends Cliven Bundy:


Let us break this down rationally shall we?

1. They abort their young children True or False? Highest rate of abortion among ethnic groups in USA.

2. they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. Translation from a 70 year old White guy = Their young men end up in jail because they never developed an entrenched work ethic. (There are lots of areas I could go here but you get what I mean) Is this a true statement? It may not be "Politically correct" vernacular, but be doesn't come off as a racist to me.

3. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? Translation: Are Blacks better off working and staying together as a family unit or are they better today, with subsidies for un-wed mothers and an uncertain future for black males in society? (That's my interpretation and I don't speak for all Black folks obviously.)

4. They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.” This is an accurate statement!

I could say so much more but I still stand with Mr Bundy and support him and his family's position against the BLM. This changes nothing in my mind.

[Deborah K]

Cliven Bundy Responds To Charges Of Racism: ‘The Statement Was Right’

http://therightscoop.com/breaking-cliven-bundy-responds-to-charges-of-racism-the-statement-was-right/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6UWy9wolLg

Poor old guy. He's no racist. We have an opportunity here to squelch this through social media. I wonder how many of us will take it.

[Deborah K]

A black man (Uncle Tom :)) defends Cliven Bundy:

Link?

[donnay]

Cliven Bundy Responds To Charges Of Racism: ‘The Statement Was Right’

http://therightscoop.com/breaking-cliven-bundy-responds-to-charges-of-racism-the-statement-was-right/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6UWy9wolLg


Not the part when he allegedly said "pickin' cotton" which the NYT quoted him saying in this interview.

[cajuncocoa]

Who needs Liberals/Progressives when we have people who are (supposedly) on our side to hang him out to dry for just words that he said? For God's sake, don't get too close to him now!! Everybody, stand back and let the man die.

[William Tell]

Link?

http://www.dailypaul.com/317499/ultimate-facepalm-rand-paul-slams-cliven-bundys-racist-rant-politico#comment-3392737

[kahless]

This is really unbelievable. Even if the guy came out and said he is a racist it does not matter since it is not relevant to the issue of BLM. The Progressives need to be put in place and shouted down on the facts, not allow them to re-frame this on some irrelevant tangent on race.

[AuH20]

Who needs Liberals/Progressives when we have people who are (supposedly) on our side to hang him out to dry for just words that he said? For God's sake, don't get too close to him now!! Everybody, stand back and let the man die.

Well said. If people are worried about their reps at this stage of the game, they don't know our enemy too well. This is the easy part. All of us will be unfairly painted when the time comes.

[PaulConventionWV]

Obviously, we all have our misgivings about Bundy's statements because we know the question he is raising is highly stigmatized, and yet none of us want to actually give up our status as a racially sensitive person by looking like a guy who just stepped out of a time machine from the 1950s South.

At the heart of it, though, I think every reasonable person on this board will admit to themselves (not out loud) that what Cliven said was correct and not meant to be racist. The problem is that you'll never, EVER convince Boobus of that.

[AuH20]

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-we-must-indeed-all-hang-together-or-most-assuredly-we-shall-all-hang-separately-benjamin-franklin-65454.jpg

[puppetmaster]

one reporter....one photog.......hmm....maybe they would not let others in....that way they control the info......???

[JK/SEA]

Well said. If people are worried about their reps at this stage of the game, they don't know our enemy too well. This is the easy part. All of us will be unfairly painted when the time comes.

former Ron Paul State Delegate here....been there, done that...i've been 'painted' so many times, i finally learned to defend myself with truth bombs.

[puppetmaster]

Not sure if this has been posted.

http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/ammon-bundy-n-y-times-quote-out-of-context/


Ammon Bundy told WND: “I was there standing right beside my father when he made those comments. He was reaching out to the black community.”

He explained his father was commenting on the fact that while blacks were “in slavery on plantations, now because of the welfare system, they continue to be in slavery.”

“He desires the black community to have freedom,” Ammon Bundy said.

“Growing up around him, and being beside him, I never once heard him say anything negative about any race,” Ammon Bundy said. “I wish I could say that about everyone else I’ve been around. The black community, the white community, they joke back and forth. My father’s never lowered himself.”


good statement

[Deborah K]

Remember what the opposition did to Phil Robertson? Many in the country stood up for his right to believe what he wants to believe, and A&E buckled under and put Duck Dynasty back on the air.

Bundy is putting civil disobedience into practice. Last night Nap stated on Hannity's show that there is nothing in the Constitution that gives the Federal gov't the right to ownership over land in the States. (eminent domain notwithstanding - this BLM issue does not pertain to eminent domain).

There is no doubt what he is doing, and the support he has gotten is a threat to the status quo. Naturally they are going to pull out all the guns (literally and figuratively). We've been bitching on this forum for years about gov't abuse, and now that people have finally had enough and are fighting back, are we going to just tuck tail and run because the opposition is gaining a little ground in the propaganda arena?

[Wadesc]

I'm making scrunchy face right now

This is going to get ugly

[AuH20]

I'm making scrunchy face right now

This is going to get ugly

They definitely intend to go in hard now. First, they needed to polarize the man, so as to lend credibility to their excessive actions. Secondly, this is about destroying morale on our side.

[Deborah K]

Obviously, we all have our misgivings about Bundy's statements because we know the question he is raising is highly stigmatized, and yet none of us want to actually give up our status as a racially sensitive person by looking like a guy who just stepped out of a time machine from the 1950s South.

At the heart of it, though, I think every reasonable person on this board will admit to themselves (not out loud) that what Cliven said was correct and not meant to be racist. The problem is that you'll never, EVER convince Boobus of that.

We don't necessarily need to convince boobus of that. We just need to expose the double-standard.

[Valli6]

Here's the 3:13 version.
Uh, he's still using the term "colored" too - also considered respectful at one time.
Very un-PC word usage, but by no means hateful.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI

[Badger Paul]

And Rand Paul couldn't have run from Cliven any faster than he did (all though to be fair he didn't exactly "embrace" him either).

But curious to see how fast Cliven's new "friends" stop being his friends after today.

All of this was so manufactured, it's sickening.

[donnay]

I believe they are doing this because he is a Mormon and they are using the stereo-typical notions they like to used against Mormons. The thing is, Glenn Beck and Dirty Harry Reid are Mormons too.


Flashback:

Why Race Is Still a Problem for Mormons
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/opinion/sunday/racism-and-the-mormon-church.html?_r=0

[AuH20]

Beck and the NYT working together?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3148158/posts


Glenn Beck criticized Cliven Bundy’s comments on race on his radio program Thursday, saying the Nevada rancher is “unhinged from reality” and urging his supporters to “end your relationship” with him.

“He’s often wondered if black people would be better of as slaves?” Beck said on his program, after reading from Bundy’s comments on race reported by The New York Times. “End your relationship. End your relationship. If that doesn’t end your relationship with him, you have to go back and question where did you go wrong. You wondered if blacks were better off as slaves picking cotton and having a family life? They didn’t have a family life!”

[cajuncocoa]

William Norman Grigg: For Progressives, "Thoughtcrime: is Worse than Mass Murder

As any reasonably well-informed attorney knows, if a police officer follows a driver long enough he will witness a violation that supposedly justifies a traffic stop. Once this happens, the officer will “build the stop” by seeking a pretext to search the vehicle for evidence of violations that can lead to an arrest of the driver, or seizure of the vehicle and its contents.

Cliven Bundy, among others, can testify that Regime-oriented journalism operates in a very similar fashion: Have a reporter from the New York Times shadow a 67-year-old Mormon rancher from southeastern Nevada long enough, and eventually the subject will say something that offends current sensibilities about race (http://www.salon.com/2014/04/24/roger_ailes_owns_cliven_bundy_now_how_dumb_opportu nism_became_a_right_wing_nightmare/). To be specific, Bundy used retrograde racial terminology in musing aloud about the damage done to the black family by the Welfare State—which he suggested might be as evil, in some ways, as the odious institution of chattel slavery.

Mr. Bundy is unusually media-savvy for a rancher, but he doesn’t speak in sound-bites. He wasn’t lamenting the fact that black Americans are no longer required to pick cotton for other people who supposedly “own” them, but that the modern welfare state has cultivated dependency, undermined the family, and helped to bring about both the a stratospherically high incarceration rate for black men and a shockingly high abortion rate for black unborn children (a development he wouldn’t lament if he genuinely hated black people).

That perspective could have been tidily packaged for media consumption in the following phrase: “The welfare state has done to black Americans what slavery could not have done, the harshest Jim Crow laws and racism could not have done, namely break up the black family.”

Those sentences were not uttered by a white rancher from Nevada, but by a black academic from Virginia – Dr. Walter Williams, to be specific. It takes a remarkable gift for dishonesty to accuse Dr. Williams of indulging in racism, but Ed Shultz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmltVHMCyu0) – who serves as MSNBC’s left-wing analogue to Sean Hannity (http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2011/04/war-is-holy-this-i-know-for-dear-leader.html) – was equal to that challenge. Shultz apparently doesn’t consider it to be an act of paternalistic racism for a white Progressive to tutor a black academic about matters of racial etiquette (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/06/07/msnbccom-accuses-walter-williams-making-racist-statements-foxs-stosse#ixzz2zogZ2wZ2).


On April 11, the day before the “Battle of Bunkerville,” President Obama found time in a schedule cluttered with drone strikes (http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/04/andrew-p-napolitano/i-can-kill-you-secretly-for-secret-reasons-ha-ha/) against brown people overseas to address Al Sharpton’s National Action Network convention (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/04/11/obama-comes-to-nyc-to-speak-at-sharptons-national-action-network-convention/). Sharpton is man of many parts, nearly all of them loathsome. He is a shake-down artist, a racial incendiary (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/8/hurt-once-just-a-race-hustler-now-a-snitching-race/?page=all), and – as we were recently reminded – an asset of the secret police (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/activist-recalls-1983-meeting-sharpton-bugged-briefcase-article-1.1754857).

The least objectionable facet of Sharpton’s record is his tax “evasion,” (http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2004404787_sharpton10.html) given that protecting one’s assets from theft is not a crime. That being said, I find it fascinating that on April 11 Mr. Obama was embracing as a role model a public figure said to owe millions of dollars in taxes, and on the next day his administration was prepared to kill a Nevada rancher described as a “deadbeat” because he refuses to pay grazing fees to a branch of government that is not constitutionally permitted to collect them.

This disparate treatment could easily be explained as a question of identity politics. J.D. Tuccille points (http://reason.com/blog/2014/04/23/behold-democratic-future-boasts-chait) out, the Obama-era Progressive movement insists that all anti-government activism is reductively racist. This could be seen as part of a cynical, murderous political deal struck early in Obama’s reign.

Several months into his first term, Barack Obama signed into law a “hate crimes” measure (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/obama-signs-hate-crimes-bill/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0)that enriched the federal government’s power to investigate and punish improper thinking. That measure likewise diverted plundered funds to fill the troughs of left-wing pressure groups that gather intelligence on “thought criminals” on behalf of the Feds.

More: http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/for-progressives-thoughtcrime-is-worse-than-mass-murder/

[cajuncocoa]

Beck and the NYT working together?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3148158/posts
Glenn Beck hasn't been on the good side of this issue from the start.

[Natural Citizen]

But curious to see how fast Cliven's new "friends" stop being his friends after today.

All of this was so manufactured, it's sickening.

Yep. Carpetbaggers....

[JK/SEA]

great...just effin great...the beckster raises his ugly voice again..

fuck off beck...damn freak..

[AuH20]

great...just effin great...the beckster raises his ugly voice again..

fuck off beck...damn freak..

Restoring courage and honor.;) He wouldn't know the meaning of the words.

[Deborah K]

I'll be doing some tweeting to the media today to show that Prince Harry used the term "negro" to describe Obama at one time. I ask that others do the same. I'm also going on various websites and posting hateful messages from the opposition to expose the double-standard.

I hope others do the same. If enough people work to expose the double-standard, and to show this man uses old terminology and analogy because he is old, this won't get very far. We've already seen that 'push-back' is effective when done in numbers.

[KurtBoyer25L]

We don't necessarily need to convince boobus of that. We just need to expose the double-standard.

Bundy said, "(young black men go to jail because) they never learned to pick cotton."

THAT is an extremely racist & ugly remark.

You guys forget your individualism 101? You hold up a weird old racist rancher like he's a grand symbol of the Paul movement, that's a serious problem. People who might vote for Liberty candidates are lurking here, and all they see is a convoluted song & dance routine instead of the simple "ew, gross" that they should see. I'm afraid their are many RPF members who would like to say "ew, gross" and won't speak up because they'll be mocked & derided by the horde.

Be a rational human being & denounce hate speech from any source. Old racist white guys make horrible figureheads.

[AuH20]

Beck wants us to turn away, when the MSM and the federal behemoth is poised to lynch this man and his family? Is that the neighborly thing to do? Beck is a real piece of work.

[Deborah K]

Glenn Beck hasn't been on the good side of this issue from the start.

Biggest coward on the planet.

[dannno]

Yesterday I had to explain to a bunch of progressives why protecting endangered species leads to their extinction. That was really easy.

I guess I should thank the NYT for giving me a more challenging debate topic for today.

[kahless]

And Rand Paul couldn't have run from Cliven any faster than he did (all though to be fair he didn't exactly "embrace" him either).

But curious to see how fast Cliven's new "friends" stop being his friends after today.

All of this was so manufactured, it's sickening.

I said to myself after the first interview that they are going to wait until this builds, then destroy this poor guy and then the "right" is going to bail on him.

[cajuncocoa]

I may have missed it (seriously....I don't make a habit of reading the NYTimes) but did the NYT make a similar big deal out of this??

Jay-Z Seen Wearing Controversial Medallion with Ties to Anti-White Five Percent Nation Group! (http://perezhilton.com/2014-04-07-jay-z-wear-controversial-anti-white-medallion-five-percent-nation#.U1lWz14trUk)

http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ap2903600489501.gif

Jay Z (http://perezhilton.com/category/jay-z?from=starseeker_top_perezhilton#.U0LGFMfgDnk) was seen wearing this controversial medallion at a Brooklyn Nets game on April 1st, and we hope its appearance was some sort of April Fools' joke, even though its symbolism isn't any laughing matter.


The medallion carries the same symbol as the Five Percent Nation, an offshoot of the Nation of Islam, which touts that God is purely black, that he could be found in all black men (and not women), and that five percent of all people know the truth and are "poor righteous teachers" trying to inform the rest of the world.


On the Five Percent Nation, author Michael Muhammad Knight says that its teachings are extremely anti-white:


Read more: http://perezhilton.com/2014-04-07-jay-z-wear-controversial-anti-white-medallion-five-percent-nation#ixzz2zpVImyEq

[ZENemy]

1. If he is racist, the BLM situation has NOT changed.
2. Hear it directly from his mouth right here.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCJ59tls0vc

[AuH20]

I said to myself after the first interview that they are going to wait until this builds, then destroy this poor guy and then the "right" is going to bail on him.

At least, he'll know who his friends are at the end of the day.

[cajuncocoa]

At least, he'll know who his friends are at the end of the day.
His friends are who they always have been: those who aren't cowards. Everyone else was just posing.

[Deborah K]

Bundy said, "(young black men go to jail because) they never learned to pick cotton."

THAT is an extremely racist & ugly remark.

You guys forget your individualism 101? You hold up a weird old racist rancher like he's a grand symbol of the Paul movement, that's a serious problem. People who might vote for Liberty candidates are lurking here, and all they see is a convoluted song & dance routine instead of the simple "ew, gross" that they should see. I'm afraid their are many RPF members who would like to say "ew, gross" and won't speak up because they'll be mocked & derided by the horde.

Be a rational human being & denounce hate speech from any source. Old racist white guys make horrible figureheads.

You can't take a statement completely out of context like you have without considering the entire issue, to do so is just plain ignorant. You cannot ignore the nuances surrounding this issue. I realize some people will jump ship over this. As far as I'm concerned, you're Sunshine Patriots.

[Badger Paul]

"how destructive welfare has been to the black community."

There are more whites on welfare than other races. Should they be slaves too? Or better yet "indentured servants?"

[CPUd]

Can cotton even grow in the Nevada desert?

[phill4paul]

Who needs Liberals/Progressives when we have people who are (supposedly) on our side to hang him out to dry for just words that he said? For God's sake, don't get too close to him now!! Everybody, stand back and let the man die.

Calm down Cajun. I don't think there is a single person here that does not defend his stand against the BLM. If anything it is about the PR war that is being fought regarding it and how his statements affect it. We aren't budging an inch on this. At least I hope nobody is.

[green73]

Drudge linked to this Wapo article, "Rand Paul and other Republican leaders back away from Bundy"

It links to Peter Schiff's show today, where Bundy was interviewed by none other than Tom Woods.


On Peter Schiff's talk radio show (http://www.schiffradio.com/f/loop), however, he stood by his remarks. "Are they happier now under this government subsidy system than they were when they were slaves, and they was able to have their family structure together, and the chickens and garden, and the people had something to do? And so, in my mind I’m wondering, are they better off being slaves, in that sense, or better off being slaves to the United States government, in the sense of the subsidies. I’m wondering. That’s what. And the statement was right. I am wondering.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/04/24/rand-paul-and-other-republican-leaders-back-away-from-bundy//?print=1

[donnay]

Jason Bullock is on the phone with Alex Jones right now from the Bundy Ranch. He is part of the security for Mr. Bundy. He has been at the ranch on and off for two weeks and now is definitely staying for the long haul. He said one of the reasons he came out in support of Mr. Bundy was because of the divide and conquer that goes on and he is sick of it. This is why he is standing in solidarity with the Bundy Family and any family who is being railroaded by the feds.

Oh I forgot to mention--he is black.

[juleswin]

Rightfully so with Rand doing outreach. F*ckin' people just do not know how to keep their mouth shut when fighting a PR war. This will now paint any militia members that support him as racists also furthering the anti-militia resentment.
I hate people. Damned if I don't.

I listened to the interview he did with foxnews and immediately knew that it was a matter of time before he said something really stupid. They asked him if what Harry Reid said about him and those who supported him was correct and he gave some weird answer agreed with his statement without even denouncing it.

So I guess here it is.

[KurtBoyer25L]

Obviously, we all have our misgivings about Bundy's statements because we know the question he is raising is highly stigmatized, and yet none of us want to actually give up our status as a racially sensitive person by looking like a guy who just stepped out of a time machine from the 1950s South.

At the heart of it, though, I think every reasonable person on this board will admit to themselves (not out loud) that what Cliven said was correct and not meant to be racist. The problem is that you'll never, EVER convince Boobus of that.

As a reasonable person, I asked myself, "Do I believe that those colored/negro/cotton-pickers are all in jail with their women having abortions & being bored because they never learned how to pick cotton?" Not only is the answer a resounding "no, wtf?" but I'm offended by the syntax itself. All people are individuals, and there are plenty of white people getting federal $ and/or having abortions in Nevada. I also don't believe I should attempt to speak for negros, I mean black people in this way, whether they were better off as slaves than they are now. If there's a good point to be made about the welfare state within the overall stink of Bundy's remarks, it's being better stated by other people. I can defend their views w/o defending a creep at the same time.

[AuH20]

"how destructive welfare has been to the black community."

There are more whites on welfare than other races. Should they be slaves too? Or better yet "indentured servants?"

The black community was beta tested first. Now we're getting a taste of dependency. Yes, we have a major problem in the white community with welfare benefits. This isn't exactly a secret.

[KurtBoyer25L]

Yesterday I had to explain to a bunch of progressives why protecting endangered species leads to their extinction. That was really easy.

I guess I should thank the NYT for giving me a more challenging debate topic for today.

OT, how does that work?

[phill4paul]

[B]William Norman Grigg: For Progressives, "Thoughtcrime: is Worse than Mass Murder

Damn, I sure love some Will Grigg. Masterful. Get him on the Boobus box.

[cajuncocoa]

As a reasonable person, I asked myself, "Do I believe that those colored/negro/cotton-pickers are all in jail with their women having abortions & being bored because they never learned how to pick cotton?" Not only is the answer a resounding "no, wtf?" but I'm offended by the syntax itself. All people are individuals, and there are plenty of white people getting federal $ and/or having abortions in Nevada. I also don't believe I should attempt to speak for negros, I mean black people in this way, whether they were better off as slaves than they are now. If there's a good point to be made about the welfare state within the overall stink of Bundy's remarks, it's being better stated by other people. I can defend their views w/o defending a creep at the same time.

None of this has anything to do with the main issue regarding the Bundy Ranch. Even people who hold "outrageous views" deserve to have their rights protected. The media sought to distract people with this, and it looks like they're succeeding.

[phill4paul]

Jason Bullock is on the phone with Alex Jones right now from the Bundy Ranch. He is part of the security for Mr. Bundy. He has been at the ranch on and off for two weeks and now is definitely staying for the long haul. He said one of the reasons he came out in support of Mr. Bundy was because of the divide and conquer that goes on and he is sick of it. This is why he is standing in solidarity with the Bundy Family and any family who is being railroaded by the feds.

Oh I forgot to mention--he is black.

Then Mr. Bullock needs to become a PR spokesman regarding this. Not all battles are fought with bullets. And I'm not talking AJ. I'm talking MSM.

[ClydeCoulter]

Here's the 3:13 version.
Uh, he's still using the term "colored" too - also considered respectful at one time.
Very un-PC word usage, but by no means hateful.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI

It's just exactly what I thought. They are framing him by taking his words out of context.

He's not racist! He cares about the blacks and Mexicans, just listen to the whole video.

[Deborah K]

As a reasonable person, I asked myself, "Do I believe that those colored/negro/cotton-pickers are all in jail with their women having abortions & being bored because they never learned how to pick cotton?" Not only is the answer a resounding "no, wtf?" but I'm offended by the syntax itself. All people are individuals, and there are plenty of white people getting federal $ and/or having abortions in Nevada. I also don't believe I should attempt to speak for negros, I mean black people in this way, whether they were better off as slaves than they are now. If there's a good point to be made about the welfare state within the overall stink of Bundy's remarks, it's being better stated by other people. I can defend their views w/o defending a creep at the same time.

Again, the man is old and he used old terminology and old analogies. How can you, on the one hand, tolerate the vicious comments and racism against whites on a constant basis, as an attempt to peddle victimhood, and not tolerate an old man's attempt at trying to ask the question of whether poor blacks in this country are better off as government slaves than they were as plantation slaves, because that's the crux of his comment, inarticulate though it was. He didn't call for their hanging, or for slavery to be re-instituted, ffs. The man is practicing the long-held standard of civil disobedience. He's not an orator, he's not politically correct. So, we should abandon him now?

[Lucille]

The full recording was posted by someone on their FB page (https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/posts/631224826954329?reply_comment_id=631235756953236&total_comments=9):

http://bambuser.com/v/4549915

I wondered why it came up. He was talking about the Watts riots:

"What I am testifying to you is, I was in the Watts riots. What I seen was civil disturbance. People are not happy. People are thinking they don't have their freedoms and they don't have these things. And they didn't have them! We've progressed quite a bit from that day until now, and we sure don't want to go back. We sure don't want these colored people to have to go back to that point, and we sure don't want these Mexican people to go back to that point. And we can make a difference right now by taking care of some of these bureaucracies and do it in a peaceful way."

After which came the infamous quote.

[KurtBoyer25L]

You can't take a statement completely out of context like you have without considering the entire issue, to do so is just plain ignorant. You cannot ignore the nuances surrounding this issue. I realize some people will jump ship over this. As far as I'm concerned, you're Sunshine Patriots.

I didn't take it out of context, I selected the most clearly offensive part. I also think it's ridiculous for old ranchers in the middle of nowhere to speculate on the overall well-being of whole races of people, or to hold up human trafficking as a better solution to their issues. But I wanted to type something short & sharp to try to offset the group apologia for a creepy, racist farmer. You defend people like this, you turn people off, and they're right to be turned off.

Question, what if Cliven Bundy was a liberal authoritarian trying to demolish some homes to build a license office somewhere, and THEN he came out & said black people were better off in the cotton fields? I imagine there would be 200 posts about "See, liberals are ugly people deep down." Learn how to separate one issue from another.

[cajuncocoa]

A comment (and my retort) from one of the Glenn Beck articles:

“It is hard, because we believe the government is out of control,” Beck said on his radio program. “We believe the government is growing as an oppressor. We believe the west should have their land. We believe that the EPA and the BLM is putting their boot on the necks of of farmers and ranchers. … But you have to know who you’re standing with.”

No, you only need to know what you're standing FOR.

[cajuncocoa]

I didn't take it out of context, I selected the most clearly offensive part. I also think it's ridiculous for old ranchers in the middle of nowhere to speculate on the overall well-being of whole races of people, or to hold up human trafficking as a better solution to their issues. But I wanted to type something short & sharp to try to offset the group apologia for a creepy, racist farmer. You defend people like this, you turn people off, and they're right to be turned off.

Question, what if Cliven Bundy was a liberal authoritarian trying to demolish some homes to build a license office somewhere, and THEN he came out & said black people were better off in the cotton fields? I imagine there would be 200 posts about "See, liberals are ugly people deep down." Learn how to separate one issue from another.
Still has nothing to do with the main reason Bundy is in the news.

[pcosmar]

The black community was beta tested first. Now we're getting a taste of dependency. Yes, we have a major problem in the white community with welfare benefits. This isn't exactly a secret.

No they weren't..
The Indians were first..
They took the land and confined them to reservations,, and handed them a bottle.

Welfare was run on Government reservations first.. it came to cities second.

[AuH20]

A comment (and my retort) from one of the Glenn Beck articles:


No, you only need to know what you're standing FOR.

And Glenn Beck stands with Jon Huntsman Sr. That's all you need to know.

[cajuncocoa]

“It is hard, because we believe the government is out of control,” Beck said on his radio program. “We believe the government is growing as an oppressor. We believe the west should have their land. We believe that the EPA and the BLM is putting their boot on the necks of of farmers and ranchers. … But you have to know who you’re standing with.”

Same type of character assassination he did to Debra Medina.

[Deborah K]

I didn't take it out of context, I selected the most clearly offensive part. I also think it's ridiculous for old ranchers in the middle of nowhere to speculate on the overall well-being of whole races of people, or to hold up human trafficking as a better solution to their issues. But I wanted to type something short & sharp to try to offset the group apologia for a creepy, racist farmer. You defend people like this, you turn people off, and they're right to be turned off.

Question, what if Cliven Bundy was a liberal authoritarian trying to demolish some homes to build a license office somewhere, and THEN he came out & said black people were better off in the cotton fields? I imagine there would be 200 posts about "See, liberals are ugly people deep down." Learn how to separate one issue from another.

You are caught in the Political Correctness trap. Your worldview looks through those lenses.

[cajuncocoa]

I hope this puts to rest the "Glenn Beck is coming around" comments for 2014.

[squarepusher]

Cliven Bundy is on Alex Jones right now and he emphatically denies the "pickin' cotton" remark. NYT is making things up. He has a black militia man guarding his house right now. He is not a racists. The man sits at his dinner table.

heres the video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbnRnhrNFEY&feature=youtu.be

[donnay]

heres the video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbnRnhrNFEY&feature=youtu.be


Not the same time frame as the NYT interview.

[ClydeCoulter]

heres the video

[Out Of Context Video Removed]

NO, Here's the video in proper context:


Here's the 3:13 version.
Uh, he's still using the term "colored" too - also considered respectful at one time.
Very un-PC word usage, but by no means hateful.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI

[AuH20]

You are caught in the Political Correctness trap. Your worldview looks through those lenses.

Emotions betray. Logic never does. The logical conclusion being that the federal government needs to smash this man's reputation before they roll in with their calvacade.

[phill4paul]

I didn't take it out of context, I selected the most clearly offensive part. I also think it's ridiculous for old ranchers in the middle of nowhere to speculate on the overall well-being of whole races of people, or to hold up human trafficking as a better solution to their issues. But I wanted to type something short & sharp to try to offset the group apologia for a creepy, racist farmer. You defend people like this, you turn people off, and they're right to be turned off.

Question, what if Cliven Bundy was a liberal authoritarian trying to demolish some homes to build a license office somewhere, and THEN he came out & said black people were better off in the cotton fields? I imagine there would be 200 posts about "See, liberals are ugly people deep down." Learn how to separate one issue from another.

"the clearly offensive part." WAS taken out of context. Intentionally. Unfortunately, one has to sculpt any public statement down to the single sentence or word. This is the world we live in. The world of PR is a bitch and that is why millions are spent on it.

[Deborah K]

If anyone thinks this man is a racist, they're either PC cowards, or they have an agenda.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI

[thoughtomator]

Guys, stop going for the bait. This guy could be an Adolph Hitler worshipper for all I care - the issue in this case is the feds conducting military operations against US citizens.

[Antischism]

What a fucking moron, as well as those here who are rationalizing his comments. It's no wonder why the "heartless/white privileged" stereotype is applied to libertarians.

Does welfare do more harm than good? Yes. Is it worse than physical bondage? No, not even close.

Don't lecture the anarchists on how to frame their arguments because we're somehow hurting the advancement of libertarianism and Rand's 2016 election hopes when you're defending Bundy's beliefs that completely contradict everything you claim to be fighting for.

Now if the NYT lied and it turns out that Bundy never made these comments, fine.

Said everything I wanted to say.

[pcosmar]

heres the video


Nope,, that is a cut,,out of context..

The video of his words was posted. The full version.

[Deborah K]

Guys, stop going for the bait. This guy could be an Adolph Hitler worshipper for all I care - the issue in this case is the feds conducting military operations against US citizens.

Come on. You've been here long enough. You know how this works. In order to win, they need a character assassination.

[AuH20]

These are the 4 steps.

1. Propaganda
2. Demoralization of the enemy
3. Infiltration of enemy made easier through this fracturing
4. Mobilization

Bundy better get more men beause this is a telltale sign of their intentions.

[Lucille]

Harry Reid Issues Statement On "Hateful Racist" Cliven Bundy
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-24/harry-reid-issues-statement-hateful-racist-cliven-bundy

[pcosmar]

It ain't Over!
Harry Reid

All I need to know.

[Deborah K]

Harry Reid Issues Statement On "Hateful Racist" Cliven Bundy
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-24/harry-reid-issues-statement-hateful-racist-cliven-bundy


Okay, the war is on. Time to expose Prince Harry. Gotta go for now, but I'll do my part when I get back home. Soldier on, fellow freedom fighters.

[cajuncocoa]

What a fucking moron, as well as those here who are rationalizing his comments. It's no wonder why the "heartless/white privileged" stereotype is applied to libertarians.

Does welfare do more harm than good? Yes. Is it worse than physical bondage? No, not even close.

Don't lecture the anarchists on how to frame their arguments because we're somehow hurting the advancement of libertarianism and Rand's 2016 election hopes when you're defending Bundy's beliefs that completely contradict everything you claim to be fighting for.

Now if the NYT lied and it turns out that Bundy never made these comments, fine.
I'm not defending his comments. I agree, his comments are offensive at worst ...and just plain wrong at best.

But this whole thing is a distraction from the main issue.

Surely you're not suggesting that he doesn't deserve our support against the BLM just because he made some offensive comments, are you?

[AuH20]

The dogs will keep chasing cars until they finally get run over. The American people truly deserve their fate if they are this gullible.

[Madison320]

None of this has anything to do with the main issue regarding the Bundy Ranch. Even people who hold "outrageous views" deserve to have their rights protected. The media sought to distract people with this, and it looks like they're succeeding.

Exactly what I was thinking. What difference does it make whether Bundy is a racist? I think this points to a bigger problem which is a general loss of the rule of law. It doesn't matter whether you violated a law or if the law was just. It only matters who you are and what people think of you. If Bundy is a racist does that mean we can throw him in jail, take his stuff?

[cajuncocoa]

Okay, the war is on. Time to expose Prince Harry. Gotta go for now, but I'll do my part when I get back home. Soldier on, fellow freedom fighters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6CvYz-gYfU

[AuH20]

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/dog-training-18.jpg

[ravedown]

the battle ended with the word "negro", on to the next battle. no one in the political or media world is going to touch this now.

[Badger Paul]

I was going say, maybe Harry Reid knew something about this fellow the rest of us didn't. He may be devious but he's not stupid.

I'll be honest I've never even heard of Cliven until this month. Supposedly this dispute has been going since 1993. That's 20 years and three presidents ago! Why wasn't he a cause celebre before then? The question is no different today as it was back then, is it right for the Feds to own so much land and how does it affect those who wish to use it? And yet that's not what's being discussed is it? It's all about wanna-be macho men thinking how cool it is to be a "rebel" (especially when a Democrat is President. When it's a Republican they're law-abiding Patriots) and joining this supposed "cause" when no one cared or concerned themselves about what he was going through for 21 years until the Feds showed up to actually enforce the law and scene was created. They puffed him up to be a hero and now since he's been declared a bigot his "friends" whether Hannity or Fox or the National Review won't be there to pump in the hot air anymore and he'll deflate pretty quickly. And then he'll wonder where everyone went. It will pretty sad and the Feds will round up his cattle when the TV cameras are all gone.

So let's cut to f'ing chase: Either you believe in the rule of law or you don't. You may not like the law, you challenge it in court or get people in government who will help to change it. But it doesn't remove it. So there you are. Now if you want to be an anarchist, that's fine. But there consequences for doing so: death, prison or complete isolation from society. There's no political outcome to it because the politics does not support armed conflict. Never has, never will and if you believed it you wouldn't be at RPF now would you? You'd be in your bunker preparing for the standoff. And I'm tired of seeing the politics being tarnished by bigots and buffoons. A man can stand up to the Powers that Be but in this country he has to do so either in the courtroom or the ballot box, not at the barricades. Again, you may not like it but that's the way it is. Otherwise, just don't give a damn anymore. Go away and leave it behind and do something else because you can't change it because nobody wants it to change. If they did, well don't you think we'd have another internal war by now?, another revolution? When did that ever take place? No. Helping Cliven honestly would have meant changing law so these disputes don't take place anymore. Instead people would rather help him dishonestly which will only lead to his eventual downfall.

[cajuncocoa]

the battle ended with the word "negro", on to the next battle. no one in the political or media world is going to touch this now.
Oh, please. Harry Reid used that word to describe Obama's dialect. Go look at the video I posted in #245. Don't take the hypocrites' bait.

[NewRightLibertarian]

Oh, please. Harry Reid used that word to describe Obama's dialect. Go look at the video I posted in #245. Don't take the hypocrites' bait.

It's sad how people here fall for the bullshit so easily, isn't it?