Needed: a powerful symbol of the RP Revolution

[AceNZ]

The more I look around the web and read what supporters of other candidates are thinking, the more worried I get for this country of ours. It feels like we need a powerful, visible statement of some kind that represents the RP Revolution.

In the same way the original American revolutionaries had their tea party, and Vietnam anti-war supporters had burning their draft card, women's libbers had burning heir bras, anti-AIDS groups have their ribbons -- we need something that's uniquely ours, that provokes an emotional reponse, that helps tie the movement together, and that helps show that is much more than just an election.

It seems like there are some basic requirements for a symbol or symbolic act: it should reflect the values of RP -- valuing property rights, non-violence, etc. And it would be great if it was something that could be done anywhere, that was very visible, low-cost, and more powerful when seen in groups.

To get the ball rolling, I have an idea for such a thing. I know it might sound a little crazy, but keep in mind that's part of the idea: dye one or both entire hands (up to the wrist) one of several colors. The colors could be used to represent the aspects of RP that are most important to you -- for example red = anti-war, blue = economy & taxes, green = personal liberties. You could dye them yourself at home (food coloring), or it could be done en-masse at rallies. It's harmless, unique, cheap, extremely visual and emotion-provoking. The process of dying one's hands could be associate with symbolically washing them clean of the war in Iraq, etc.

Imagine the impact of seeing large numbers of people with dyed hands. It would certainly provoke more questions (and press) than t-shirts or bumper stickers. In a large crowd it would be particularly striking.

Also, I'm not suggesting that everyone who supports RP should do this. In the same way that everyone who was against the Vietnam war didn't burn their draft cards, it's not necessary. But enough people doing so at key moments could generate publicity and airtime in a very powerful way.

I know I'm probably crazy, but I would be interested to hear what you think, or if you have other / better ideas.

[foofighter20x]

John Rambo headbands

[JoeySweets]

No,

thinking outside the box, BUT, but Dyed Hands, it would like sweat off and stuff

[Spirit of '76]

Uh...

[Richandler]

Ron Paul is the symbol! why are we tryign to take the attention away from the man who has us all here.

[F3d]

....

[Indy Vidual]

Ron Paul is the symbol why are we tryign to take the attention away from the man who has us all here.

Yes, Hope For America

[Bodhi]

How about Ron Paul T-Shirts :)

[Wyle]

A Blimp Pin..... *runs and hides*

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Academy/2229/blimpy.wav

[Alien11]

How about armbands? Think about how the MP's on an army base wear that on their arm to identify themselves. Instead of the black background, I would have white armbands with black or blue lettering saying RP on it. You could definitely use it for rallies!

[Spirit of '76]

How about armbands? Think about how the MP's on an army base wear that on their arm to identify themselves. Instead of the black background, I would have white armbands with black or blue lettering saying RP on it. You could definitely use it for rallies!

Uh...

[AceNZ]

Ron Paul is the symbol why are we tryign to take the attention away from the man who has us all here.

RP is not really a symbol... The idea is not to take attention away from him. The idea is create more attention for him.



How about Ron Paul T-Shirts :)

T-shirts are great, but do they provoke the same emotion as the Boston Tea Party, or burning draft cards? Are they powerful enough that the people will stop you on the street and say, "hey, what's that about?", or unique enough that they will generate significant press?



A Blimp Pin..... *runs and hides*

I like the idea of a pin, but is a blimp really the right symbol for the Revolution?



How about armbands? Think about how the MP's on an army base wear that on their arm to identify themselves. Instead of the black background, I would have white armbands with black or blue lettering saying RP on it. You could definitely use it for rallies!

I like armbands too, although I'm not sure the military connection totally works in our favor. It feels more like a Bush/Guiliani symbol -- like impending martial law...


Those are some good ideas, folks. Let's keep the brainstorming going!

[Alien11]

Uh...

Hey just an innocent idea that flashed in my head....I don't like radical connotations.

[AceNZ]

Uh...

Twice now in this this thread... I have no idea what that means.

[dmspilot00]

The Constitution.

[loupeznik]

Kentucky rifles? ;)

[AceNZ]

The Constitution.

That would be a great symbol, if we could figure out a way to use it. How could it be made visible and impactful to others? I could imagine a pin with an image of a paper scroll in the background and "Ron Paul 2008" in the front. Would that be powerful enough to represent (and motivate) the Revolution?

[jnpg]

People would trip on that! For the conservative types- maybe a colored hand pin? I know lots of folks work in environments where 'the whole hand' won't go. But on the other hand (pun intended) people do such wild things with tattoos and piercings... a colored hand isn't a big deal.

Someone dye your hand tonight and let us know if you get it on anything!

[MikeStanart]

It speaks for itself.



http://www.elcivics.com/constitution_quill_pen.jpg

[leipo]

http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC052103/Statue_of_Liberty.jpg

[Delain]

I know I'm probably crazy, but I would be interested to hear what you think, or if you have other / better ideas.

It would be terrific to have a symbol imo.

It could be a concrete thing like the red ribbon or it could be a shape like the peace sign http://www.talonartstamps.com/images/small/mini/PeaceSign.gif

The latter is very powerfull because it can be sprayed on walls as easy as worn on a necklace.

http://www.peaceart.us/images/09Peace_Symbol_from_Hwy.jpg

Sometimes these things start rather spontaneous as in unintended, but most are premeditated, so why not dont we?

A feather could be a symbol for instance. Feather> Bird > Freedom
It also has associations with writing. "The pen is mightier.."

People, supporters, could hang a feather on their bag or rucksack, on their clothes. Or more jewelry-like, a feather pin, feather pendants, ear rings etc.


A more stylized version could be used to tag things

http://i19.tinypic.com/6u5kdu0.jpg

Something like that. :p

Although the R3VOLUTION logo comes close allready :)

my2cts.

[foofighter20x]

How about armbands? Think about how the MP's on an army base wear that on their arm to identify themselves. Instead of the black background, I would have white armbands with black or blue lettering saying RP on it. You could definitely use it for rallies!

Sorta like the ones these guys are wearing (http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-3/Holocaust-NaziParade.GIF)?

Yeah... That'll go over real well. :rolleyes:

[ladyliberty]

How about a white feather like the quill in the Constitution pic?

White = truth, purity

White feathers are symbols of good luck

White feathers are realtively inexpensive and can be worn in hats, on lapels, etc.

[Delain]

How about a white feather like the quill in the Constitution pic?

White = truth, purity

White feathers are symbols of good luck

White feathers are realtively inexpensive and can be worn in hats, on lapels, etc.

I like it!

[juddpuds]

It would be terrific to have a symbol imo.

It could be a concrete thing like the red ribbon or it could be a shape like the peace sign http://www.talonartstamps.com/images/small/mini/PeaceSign.gif

The latter is very powerfull because it can be sprayed on walls as easy as worn on a necklace.

http://www.peaceart.us/images/09Peace_Symbol_from_Hwy.jpg

Sometimes these things start rather spontaneous as in unintended, but most are premeditated, so why not dont we?

A feather could be a symbol for instance. Feather> Bird > Freedom
It also has associations with writing. "The pen is mightier.."

People, supporters, could hang a feather on their bag or rucksack, on their clothes. Or more jewelry-like, a feather pin, feather pendants, ear rings etc.


A more stylized version could be used to tag things

http://i19.tinypic.com/6u5kdu0.jpg

Something like that. :p

Although the R3VOLUTION logo comes close allready :)

my2cts.

I like the idea of a symbol, but it needs to exude strength. Ron Paul is for peace but a feather seems like a weak symbol to me. Something like that is on the right track though.

[MikeStanart]

How about a white feather like the quill in the Constitution pic?

White = truth, purity

White feathers are symbols of good luck

White feathers are realtively inexpensive and can be worn in hats, on lapels, etc.

I approve this idea!

[tnvoter]

John Rambo headbands

hahah

[michaelwise]

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/45/peacedovethcjz2.gif

[Delain]

I like the idea of a symbol, but it needs to exude strength. Ron Paul is for peace but a feather seems like a weak symbol to me. Something like that is on the right track though.

There are other ways (white) feathers are used :rolleyes:

http://entropyhouse.com/penwiper/images/costumes/helmsdeep/arrow/arrow10.JPG

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/fb-iab.jpg

[ladyliberty]

A white feather was used to symbolize fate and destiny in the movie Forrest Gump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ9QE9IxaLQ

That is sort of like this campaign - I truly believe that Ron Paul is destined to become President - his campaign has been a miracle in the making!

[tnvoter]

I like the white star used on his blue campaign label.

[MikeStanart]

I found something and cleaned it up a little....I can make it look much better if anyone likes it.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/Flabbypig/Quill2.jpg

[davidkachel]

Guys, you are all missing the boat.
We already have the symbol and it will serve extremely well now and 10 times better after the 16th.
Plus the number of ways we can adapt it are endless:

The teabag!

[MikeStanart]

Guys, you are all missing the boat.
We already have the symbol and it will serve extremely well now and 10 times better after the 16th.
Plus the number of ways we can adapt it are endless:

The teabag!

Yeah, I'll agree to that; I'm just trying to do something productive.

[davidkachel]

OH SHIT!!!
I just had an epiphany.

SHIT this is big...

We can't dump tea into any harbors, but we can sure as hell ship one crapload of tea to every US representative and senator, AND to the white house. We time it so the tea arrives on the same day.

What do you say???

[runderwo]

OH SHIT!!!
I just had an epiphany.

SHIT this is big...

We can't dump tea into any harbors, but we can sure as hell ship one crapload of tea to every US congressman and representative AND to the white house. We time it so the tea arrives on the same day.

What do you say???

The Money Masters DVD project did something similar:

http://www.themoneymasters.com/order.htm


$50.00 Includes S&H to 5 recipients in US Congress, Executive Branch or Supreme Ct.
(Five 2 volume DVD sets to Washington, D.C.)

We will post the progress of this project here each month, or, participants may email us anytime for the current status of this project. Individual sets will be mailed as funds are received.

Beginning date: Nov. 27, 2006.
Completed July 21, 2007!

Number contributed to date: 115 ( = 575 2 vol. sets)

The Money Masters DVD has now been shipped to all US Senators, Congressmen, Supreme Court Justices and Cabinet-level Executive branch officials, including a copy of the Monetary Reform Act (575 copies in all). Thank you for your generous participation in this effort! At the request of some of our Canadian friends, we will soon post a similar program for Canada.

I like the following idea.

How about custom made bags of Tea with a V mask logo on the string?

They'll wonder or dismiss it as kooky now, but when they're voted out of office next term based on their crimes against freedom and the Constitution, imagine them wondering just what went wrong... and suddenly they'll remember, remember....

[Edward]

http://pics.drugstore.com/prodimg/93844/200.jpg

[AceNZ]

It speaks for itself.
http://www.elcivics.com/constitution_quill_pen.jpg

Unfortunately, it only speaks to those who are listening. If everyone could hear, we wouldn't be in the mess that we're currently in.

I think we need something bolder, stronger, louder.

[Delain]

A white feather was used to symbolize fate and destiny in the movie Forrest Gump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ9QE9IxaLQ

That is sort of like this campaign - I truly believe that Ron Paul is destined to become President - his campaign has been a miracle in the making!

Beautiful scene btw.

http://i6.tinypic.com/6tdb2at.jpg

It maybe a bit too hippie for some but I like it.

Whatever we "choose" has to appeal to more though.

[davidkachel]

The Money Masters DVD project did something similar:

http://www.themoneymasters.com/order.htm



I like the following idea.

How about custom made bags of Tea with a V mask logo on the string?

They'll wonder or dismiss it as kooky now, but when they're voted out of office next term based on their crimes against freedom and the Constitution, imagine them wondering just what went wrong... and suddenly they'll remember, remember....

No. Mixed messages. There is no sinister threat that can be implied without the V mask.
And "custom" is another word for expensive. If we buy just plain old tea bags we can send them a ton for practically nothing. And since Congress won't be in session then (I think), we can save postage by only shipping the tea bags to the local offices of our respective state reps.

[davidkachel]

Unfortunately, it only speaks to those who are listening. If everyone could hear, we wouldn't be in the mess that we're currently in.

I think we need something bolder, stronger, louder.

Of course it does. There is not a soul in the US who doesn't know the message of the Boston tea party AND what we are after is media attention, right?
Well, this will certainly get it!!! I bet it doubles the coverage of the already planned BTP money bomb.

As to your second statement, nothing could be bolder than the BTP idea. This just magnifies it.

[AceNZ]

I like the idea of feathers. I can imagine lots of ways they could be used. I think multi-color might be better than white, though. Even at the risk of encountering "rainbow coalition" comparisons, with colors having pre-agreed meanings, they could be used to allow supporters to add some individuality to the symbols. What could we do to make it bold enough to attract press attention?

I'm not sure about the tea bags, though. Tea was a symbol for another revolution; other than the connection to that prior event, tea itself doesn't have any relevance for most Americans (if you saw someone with a tea bag hanging from their clothing, would you be motivated to walk up and ask "what's that for?"). I think we would do better with a symbol that's uniquely ours.

Look at the power of the peace symbol in the sixties. It meant something. People got it; they bought into it.

[davidkachel]

Study your history guys. The white feather is presented anonymously as an accusation of cowardice. It doesn't fit at all.

The tea bag fits perfectly with what we are already doing. Don't you get it? It turns a one day event into an ongoing AND NEWSWORTHY symbol.

[AceNZ]

I'm a little unclear about this....

You're suggesting that we send a bunch of tea to current government representatives as a way of generating press interest?

If so, I guess I don't understand why that would work. I also don't understand how the tea bag would evolve into a lasting symbol, and how it would be used by everyday supporters.

I'm open minded about it.... I just don't get it yet.

[Delain]

Study your history guys. The white feather is presented anonymously as an accusation of cowardice. It doesn't fit at all.

The tea bag fits perfectly with what we are already doing. Don't you get it? It turns a one day event into an ongoing AND NEWSWORTHY symbol.

Well thats one thing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_feather) it has symbolized over the ages.
Also:
- The Britisch Empire
- Extraordinary bravery and excellence in combat marksmanship
- Peace
- etc.

but as I said, it has to "click" with more people for it to work.

The teabag is great for promotion of the teaparty but cant see it work after that.

[davidkachel]

I'm a little unclear about this....

You're suggesting that we send a bunch of tea to current government representatives as a way of generating press interest?

If so, I guess I don't understand why that would work. I also don't understand how the tea bag would evolve into a lasting symbol, and how it would be used by everyday supporters.

I'm open minded about it.... I just don't get it yet.

It would be making exactly the same statement to our current government that our forefathers made to king George with the original tea party. Everyone in America would "get it"!

[michaelwise]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7e/Little-rascals-1994-dvd.jpg/180px-Little-rascals-1994-dvd.jpgWhat are we going to do now Spanky, the TV keeps ignoring us and they hardly ever mention our candidates name on the news?
Alfalfa: I know Spanky, We'll buy Dr. Paul a dirigible.
Spanky: A deriga what?
Alfalfa: An air ship, a blimp Spanky, you know, like the floating signs you see in the sky.
Spanky: For what?
Alfalfa: For advertising him.
Spanky: Ohh Ohhhh Ohhhhhhh

[davidkachel]

The teabag is great for promotion of the teaparty but cant see it work after that.

If people "get" the tea party, and they will, then they will "get" the tea bag.

[Delain]

If people "get" the tea party, and they will, then they will "get" the tea bag.

Well, I'm stickin'with the feather :cool:

[LBT]

It's not just a symbol, it needs to involve some action. eg. Burning the bra.

Something like releasing a hundred doves comes to mind, but it is not unique enough.

Burning dollar bills is interesting but it may come across as anarchic or even anti-capitalistic. Our strength is peace, freedom and friendship with all I believe.

Another idea is Revolution Hugs - but it is a meme that maybe has had its time in the sun so would seem unoriginal.

I've also thought of mini-blimp rides. Where people are hooked up to a helium Blimp (maybe 10m long) with people walking the blimp around with ropes.
Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxcXFxcHnVM&feature=related
http://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/uploadedImages/theatre_balloon_acrobat-Lovell02.jpg
The theme could be "Liberty is Uplifting" or a something with a similar meaning.

[davidkachel]

Maybe I should spell it out...

The Boston tea party was a symbol of rebellion. It started the war for independence. It was a clear statement to king George that "we are fed up and not going to take it any more". King George "got" the message, was genuinely pissed and the fight was on.

Trevor Lyman had the brilliant idea of using the Boston Tea Party anniversary for a money bomb. This is a two-pronged effort. It will be effective because of the amount of money raised AND because for a second time in our history, we are saying to our new king George and all his minions that we are again "fed up and not going to take it any more". To drive the point home even harder, make certain there is no room for doubt about what we are saying, AND to give ourselves a symbol (the original topic of this thread), we need to inundate every Congressman with tea bags on the same date.
The MSM will eat this up, every Congressman will know we're dead serious about reclaiming our liberty and from that day on, we only need to wave a tea bag to make a point.

[1000-points-of-fright]

Duh... http://www.spraypaintstencils.com/creststencils/libertybell-stencil-thumb.gif

Or how about burning dollar bills?

[Zym]

Our "symbol" should be Ron Paul signs. We have enough trouble with name recognition as it is. Either that or FAL's and Gadston flags. THAT would get some attention :D

[davidkachel]

Well, I'm stickin'with the feather :cool:

You're right. All Americans will immediately understand what you are trying to say with a feather!

C'mon. Almost no one will get it and those few who do will think you are accusing someone of cowardice, but won't know who.

[runderwo]

What about the snake from the don't tread on me flag?

Kind of like the FSP porcupine.

[AceNZ]

It's not just a symbol, it needs to involve some action. eg. Burning the bra.

Yes! I agree completely. And the action needs to involve more than just wearing certain clothing or accessories -- those can come after the fact, as a reminder of the action, but they shouldn't be the action itself. It was the dumping of the tea in the harbor that made the BTP what it was. Where is our action, where is the drama that will help the public see what's going on?

What about something like huge bonfires, all over the country, where people bring paperwork they've received from the government, and burn it? Not just tax forms, but all of the other crap that's sent out -- as a way of saying "we're not going to take it any more"? They would be controlled burns, so they would be totally safe -- and would certainly attract media attention. Plus, what great therapy for the oppressed! The symbol afterwards could be an abstract of a flame or a bonfire...

[davidkachel]

Duh... http://www.spraypaintstencils.com/creststencils/libertybell-stencil-thumb.gif

Or how about burning dollar bills?

Sure, that should only piss off 40 or 50 million potential voters.
Guys, you have to think about what means something to Joe Sixpack, not to US!
WE would get burning a dollar bill. No one else would.
Stop preaching to the choir and think about your audience.

What do we want????

1. MEDIA ATTENTION that is NOT negative
2. Send a message that resonates POSITIVELY with all the potential voters we want to reach

The 5th of November worked, but it was sheer dumb luck the media didn't stick with the Guy Hawkes/terrorist thing. Even so, we cannot continue to play off the Guy Hawkes theme because Joe Sixpack doesn't get it and the media will always try to spin it negatively.

Every Joe Sixpack in America "gets" the Boston tea party. We don't have to explain ANYTHING. The media can't spin it negatively because it is ingrained as positive American history. And we can play off of it without limit right through the election.
Every time one of us swings a tea bag somewhere, everyone will "get" it and the press won't stop explaining it to those few who don't get it.

[Delain]

All Americans will immediately understand...

Yeah I get it allready... :(

[Platondas]

Guys what we really need is to all start wearing three cornered hats!
They are still considered a symbol of the revolution, they should be relatively easy to acquire and can be worn!!

[davidkachel]

Yes! I agree completely. And the action needs to involve more than just wearing certain clothing or accessories -- those can come after the fact, as a reminder of the action, but they shouldn't be the action itself. It was the dumping of the tea in the harbor that made the BTP what it was. Where is our action, where is the drama that will help the public see what's going on?

What about something like huge bonfires, all over the country, where people bring paperwork they've received from the government, and burn it? Not just tax forms, but all of the other crap that's sent out -- as a way of saying "we're not going to take it any more"? They would be controlled burns, so they would be totally safe -- and would certainly attract media attention. Plus, what great therapy for the oppressed! The symbol afterwards could be an abstract of a flame or a bonfire...

Guys, think about what you are saying!!!

"Let's take some action along with the tea party. Let's burn some papers." Aside from the trouble with police and fire departments, what exactly is the theme here? Boston tea party --- burn some gov't papers --- huh? What does one have to do with the other.

Tea party = TEA ! Don't you get it? Stick with the same theme. If you mix tea and IRS forms, NO ONE is going to get it.

[davidkachel]

What about the snake from the don't tread on me flag?

Kind of like the FSP porcupine.

No. No one will get it. Remember, once you've used the Boston tea party, you've used up half of America's knowledge of history. Ask 100 people on the street what that flag means and 100 won't know. You want 100 people to get it without having to explain it.

[AceNZ]

Our "symbol" should be Ron Paul signs. We have enough trouble with name recognition as it is.

A sign isn't a symbol. People carried "No more Vietnam" signs in the sixties, but they still burned their draft cards and sprayed peace symbols on cars and buildings. The signs are important, but they aren't enough by themselves. Imagine someone shopping at the local grocery. They aren't going to want to carry a sign with them everywhere they go -- but they might be willing to wear or otherwise be associated with the right symbol.

[Platondas]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Yorktown80.JPG

Look at the hats they are wearing!!!

[mmink15]

I say keep the focus on the message, the idea is more powerful than any symbol will be. (Also, the MSM would probably find some way to link whatever symbol to nazis or terrorists.just kidding...kinda)

[davidkachel]

Guys what we really need is to all start wearing three cornered hats!
They are still considered a symbol of the revolution, they should be relatively easy to acquire and can be worn!!

Yeah, how many times has the news already spun the three-cornered hats into trying to say we are nut jobs.

We would be better off with tin foil hats.

[Platondas]

Honestly though its perfect, its a symbol of the origianl revolution that we can wear, heck we might even bring them back into style!

[Delain]

I say keep the focus on the message, the idea is more powerful than any symbol will be.

Symbols have been used since the dawn of time and are still being used - more so then ever before prob - for one reason only, its because they work.

One image that represents the whole package.

[Flirple]

Burning your money.

[AceNZ]

Guys, think about what you are saying!!!

"Let's take some action along with the tea party. Let's burn some papers." Aside from the trouble with police and fire departments, what exactly is the theme here? Boston tea party --- burn some gov't papers --- huh? What does one have to do with the other.

Tea party = TEA ! Don't you get it? Stick with the same theme. If you mix tea and IRS forms, NO ONE is going to get it.


I never suggested taking some action along with the Tea Party.

The Tea Party doesn't have to lead to a symbol, just like Guy Fawkes or V for Vendetta didn't lead to one after Nov 5. Dec 16 and the BTP anniversary are great for their memorability, as Nov 5 was. But that doesn't mean it should become the symbol for the campaign. King George is long-gone, and I'm afraid the connection between tea and RP just won't be understood by most Americans (remember, the ones we want to attract most will never even have heard of the Dec 16 fund-raising event).

As I've said before, I think we need our own symbol, and that it should be associated with an action taken by RP supporters. A tea bag symbol to me would mean "remember that day we raised all that money". Raising money doesn't count as an action.

[The Plan]

Honestly though its perfect, its a symbol of the origianl revolution that we can wear, heck we might even bring them back into style!

This is much better than feathers. It's more expressive of the point of the movement. White feathers are a very weak symbol, but the revolutionary hat is very blatant and strong, it would get the point out better.

[Platondas]

I think I am going to go buy one now, its very strange I never wore hats in the past, but for this, ill wear a hat.

[Delain]

Yeah, how many times has the news already spun the three-cornered hats into trying to say we are nut jobs.

We would be better off with tin foil hats.

lol :D

For now I have to agree that the tea bag is the best idea yet.

A bit ambiguous still

http://pocketrockettees.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/tea-bag-detail.jpg

j/k

[Libertarian]

Ron's symbol:

http://i4.tinypic.com/6xlnhfm.jpg


http://i6.tinypic.com/6ldevia.jpg

[davidkachel]

I think I am going to go buy one now, its very strange I never wore hats in the past, but for this, ill wear a hat.

Don't forget the buckskins, the tomahawk, a corn cob pipe and maybe a couple of oxen.

Stop looking at it from YOUR perspective!!! Look at it from the perspective of a complete stranger who has no idea what you are talking about. What will he think?...

He will think you're a nut case.

[Platondas]

Hes probably going to be confused and ask why I am wearing a tricorne, perhaps more importantly if a lot of people start wearing them, I mean like in their every day lives, it would be a huge show of strength, it could even become a style, and that would be a huge thing for the movement.

[AceNZ]

Reminders of past revolutions are OK, but I don't think they will have the level of impact that we need. The Founding Fathers did their own thing, they didn't rely on memories of past events. We should take our cue from them.

I believe the goal should be to do something on a large scale that deeply reflects the values of the RP Revolution, and then create a visible, emotion-provoking symbol that reflects that action.

What does RP stand for? Why are we so excited about him? That's what we need to communicate to people. Government is too big and too intrusive is one place to start -- hence the idea of burning some papers.

If that's not bold enough, then maybe we can take another cue from the original BTP. One reason it had so much impact at the time is because the tea was valuable, and they just threw it away. They actually incurred a large personal loss to make a statement. What can we do that would be as brave and show a similarly-large level of personal sacrifice?

[Man from La Mancha]

http://ronpaulblimp.com/images/BostonRevolution.jpg

[Platondas]

Well, its my understanding is that what we all stand for is a return to rule by the principles set forth in the constitution.

[AceNZ]

Well, its my understanding is that what we all stand for is a return to rule by the principles set forth in the constitution.

Yes. Now, how do we encapsulate that in an action and an associated symbol that will help us quickly and powerfully communicate it to others?

[Platondas]

The hats! :cool:

Seriously though I can't think of anything else that one could easily wear that carries this message, I guess we could all carry around copies of the constitution but other than that the hats are the only thing I can think of at the moment.

[withallmyheart]

A snake wrapped around the constitution lapel pins.

"Don't tread on the Constitution"

Lapel pins w/o the snake: http://www.pinsforpatriots.com/fundraising-wholesale.html

[Delain]

Yes. Now, how do we encapsulate that in an action and an associated symbol that will help us quickly and powerfully communicate it to others?

You don't need an action per se imo.

Also are symbols created. When the supporters start wearing it or start using it -whatever "it" is- it will become associated with the movement.
Like the safety pin and punk. Somewhere somebody started it but it became only iconic after they all put safety pins in their clothes and ears.

Only thing is that we have to agree on something and then start to use it. The rest comes naturally.

[kill the banks]

liberty badges ... like a sheriff badge but with statue of liberty head & crown only ~ some form of liberty or die motto at bottom of badge


kill the banks

[kill the banks]

A snake wrapped around the constitution lapel pins.

"Don't tread on the Constitution"

Lapel pins w/o the snake: http://www.pinsforpatriots.com/fundraising-wholesale.html

i was looking though old symbols and your version of don't tread on me is excellent ... i like it


kill the banks

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

h ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_tea_party

It seems to me that the surface goal of the Sons of Liberty was to not allow foreign (Chinese) goods to be sold in the US. In this day in age, almost everything we buy is branded with "Made in China". All of these large corporations that have hijacked our country get most of their labor from China.

If we are to sacrifice, why not make it a boycott on imports from China again? It may not have to be everything. Maybe we can choose a certain product and refuse to buy it. This was the Sons of Liberty's original idea and i think we should echo it.

This would also keep our wealth here at home.

[AceNZ]

You don't need an action per se imo.

Sure, you can have a symbol without an action. But I think a symbol is more effective when it acts to remind people of something that's important to them. The action can also be a way to get press attention to help the process gain some momentum.

Examples:
Cause -- Action -- Symbol
Vietnam War -- Burning draft cards -- Peace symbol
WW II -- Pearl Harbor -- V for Victory
Revolutionary War -- Boston Tea Party -- various flags
Women's Liberation -- Burning bras -- graphic symbol for woman
Civil Rights -- Demonstrations, marches, MLK -- fist graphic


Putting up money and even time is easy. But are you willing to make a real personal sacrifice? Something big enough that it would make National News?

I do still like the feather idea -- if we can come up with an associated action, that would be great.

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

if we want freedom from tyranny, we must recognize that we have been fooled into bondage by the promise of material comfort. Throw away the material comfort and you throw away your chains.

This sacrifice would be VERY difficult for a lot of people.

Freedom or Comfort?

h ttp://www.boycottmadeinchina.org/

no more fancy cars, no more fancy shoes, no more cheap electronics, no more wal-mart, no more really cheap anything. Things are cheap ONLY because of what is paid to the laborer.

[AceNZ]

If we are to sacrifice, why not make it a boycott on imports from China again? It may not have to be everything. Maybe we can choose a certain product and refuse to buy it. This was the Sons of Liberty's original idea and i think we should echo it.

This would also keep our wealth here at home.


Oooh, a boycott. I love it. That's perfect! Something everyone can participate in on an individual basis.

The trick is to find the right thing to boycott. Maybe Chinese goods, but the actions of the Chinese have really been in direct response to the actions of the US government. I think penalizing them might not send the right message.

How about boycotting US banks? Would that work? They're the ones behind a lot of the things wrong in the US today, and banking reform is certainly part of RP's platform. Such a boycott might consist of doing things like: giving up one or more credit cards, closing one or more existing bank accounts, stop using checks and credit cards (cash only), move some or all of your liquid assets into gold, pay off / pay down existing debt as much as possible, etc. We could come up with a good-sized list with a little thought.

[EvilEngineer]

How about a symbol reminiscent of the French revolution, as a statement to the bourgeoisie... the guillotine.

[kill the banks]

Oooh, a boycott. I love it. That's perfect! Something everyone can participate in on an individual basis.

The trick is to find the right thing to boycott. Maybe Chinese goods, but the actions of the Chinese have really been in direct response to the actions of the US government. I think penalizing them might not send the right message.

How about boycotting US banks? Would that work? They're the ones behind a lot of the things wrong in the US today, and banking reform is certainly part of RP's platform. Such a boycott might consist of doing things like: giving up one or more credit cards, closing one or more existing bank accounts, stop using checks and credit cards (cash only), move some or all of your liquid assets into gold, pay off / pay down existing debt as much as possible, etc. We could come up with a good-sized list with a little thought.

well the banks are our greatest source of evil , i'd say ... i'm boycotting them now as best i can and the MSM

kill the banks

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

"Hancock organized a boycott of tea from China sold by the British East India Company, whose sales in the colonies then fell from 320,000 pounds (145,000 kg) to 520 pounds (240 kg). By 1773, the company had large debts, huge stocks of tea in its warehouses and no prospect of selling it because smugglers, such as Hancock, were importing tea without paying import taxes. The British government passed the Tea Act, which allowed the East India Company to sell tea to the colonies directly and without "payment of any customs or duties whatsoever" in Britain, instead paying the much lower American duty. This tax break allowed the East India Company to sell tea for half the old price and cheaper than the price of tea in England, enabling them to undercut the prices offered by the colonial merchants and smugglers.[citation needed]

American colonists, particularly the wealthy smugglers, resented this favored treatment of a major company, which employed lobbyists and wielded great influence in Parliament. Protests resulted in both Philadelphia and New York, but it was those in Boston that made their mark in history. Still reeling from the Hutchinson letters, Bostonians suspected the removal of the Tea Tax was simply another attempt by the British parliament to squash American freedom. Samuel Adams, wealthy smugglers, and others who had profited from the smuggled tea called for agents and consignees of the East India Company tea to abandon their positions; consignees who hesitated were terrorized through attacks on their warehouses and even their homes."


-from the Wikipedia article.

anything sound familiar to events of today???? It's not the banks. The banks are owned by the same people who own the major corporations who use slave labor in China to sell really cheap goods here to undermine small American businesses. In doing so, they generate massive wealth which they move from the US overseas. This wealth was yours and mine, but now is not even in the country anymore.

As far as penelizing the Chinese, I'm not convinced of that yet.

I love the idea about not using Credit Cards anymore and paying off all debt. I think that if we as a nation are going to pay off our almost 10 trillion dollar debt we should start by paying off our personal debt first.

Credit card companies don't like it when you pay off your debt. How about a website that helps people learn how to seriously reduce their spending?

[pacelli]

I think the Ron Paul rEVOLution is a pretty effective symbol, and was already implanted into the minds of millions of viewers when the ad aired during the debate :)

[kill the banks]

>It's not the banks. The banks are owned by the same people who own the major corporations who use slave labor in China to sell really cheap goods here to undermine small American businesses. In doing so, they generate massive wealth which they move from the US oversees. This wealth was yours and mine, but now is not even in the country anymore. <

well i disagree , when i say banks i'm talking of the true foreign money changers who behind the scenes own the military industrial banking complex ... people like david rockefeller and the house of rothschild are the evil axis of money changers and the power behind the federal reserve , CFR / bilderberg group that owns the war machine MIC and controls corporations notwithstanding SPP and trade treaties/agreements

kill the banks

[Matt]

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x35/mattjenson3/beanie4.jpg

[AceNZ]

It's not the banks. The banks are owned by the same people who own the major corporations who use slave labor in China to sell really cheap goods here to undermine small American businesses. In doing so, they generate massive wealth which they move from the US oversees. This wealth was yours and mine, but now is not even in the country anymore.

I agree that many large corporations have stolen huge amounts of wealth from American citizens. Whether the banks are their masters or slaves isn't important -- either way they are definitely "enablers".

FWIW, moving wealth overseas as a result of buying cheap things from countries like China is only the tip of the iceberg. The Federal Reserve together with the World Bank and the IMF have facilitated the transfer of unfathomably huge amounts of money overseas.



As far as penelizing the Chinese, I'm not convinced of that yet.

Ignoring the who-is-being-penalized issue for a moment, there are logistical issues with a Chinese boycott too -- exactly what would be boycotted? One item? But everyone doesn't buy the same stuff, so the impact wouldn't be felt. Everything made-in-China? Again, it seems like impact would be too broad to be felt. Also, why just China? There are plenty of other countries where this sort of thing goes on, too. Better to attack the root of the problem, I think.


I love the idea about not using Credit Cards anymore and paying off all debt. I think that if we as a nation are going to pay off our almost 10 trillion dollar debt we should start by paying off our personal debt first.

Credit card companies don't like it when you pay off your debt. How about a website that helps people learn how to seriously reduce their spending?

I have a lot of knowledge and experience in this area, and would be happy to put together a site if there was enough interest.

One of the things I like about a banking boycott is that it has a good chance of making an impact that will be felt. Banks definitely notice when depositors close accounts or remove large sums.

One side-effect of this idea is that people who follow these suggestions will be better prepared for the aftermath of the election -- either for an RP victory, or for the collapse that will likely happen if he's not elected.

Now, what about an associated symbol? Something that would complement a banking boycott... Maybe a gold coin?

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

>It's not the banks. The banks are owned by the same people who own the major corporations who use slave labor in China to sell really cheap goods here to undermine small American businesses. In doing so, they generate massive wealth which they move from the US oversees. This wealth was yours and mine, but now is not even in the country anymore. <

well i disagree , when i say banks i'm talking of the true foreign money changers who behind the scenes own the military industrial banking complex ... people like david rockefeller and the house of rothschild are the evil axis of money changers and the power behind the federal reserve , CFR / bilderberg group that owns the war machine MIC and controls corporations notwithstanding SPP and trade treaties/agreements

kill the banks

ok, ok, Now i agree with you. But i don't think it is accurate to call them banks anymore. Your "Banks" = my "Corporations", we're talking about the same people. :)

[Man from La Mancha]

A snake wrapped around the constitution lapel pins.

"Don't tread on the Constitution"

Lapel pins w/o the snake: http://www.pinsforpatriots.com/fundraising-wholesale.html
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9992/snakeblimp21axq6.jpg

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

I kinda like the banking idea. I have one (personal) problem with that though. I work for a pizza chain and i get paid via direct deposit. The only other option is to use a company "debit card". Basically they charge me to access my own earnings. That is outright theft. Unfortunately there is no other form of payment available. I'm sure many other people are in the same boat.

[LBT]

Sure, that should only piss off 40 or 50 million potential voters.
Guys, you have to think about what means something to Joe Sixpack, not to US!
WE would get burning a dollar bill. No one else would.
Stop preaching to the choir and think about your audience.

What do we want????

1. MEDIA ATTENTION that is NOT negative
2. Send a message that resonates POSITIVELY with all the potential voters we want to reach

The 5th of November worked, but it was sheer dumb luck the media didn't stick with the Guy Hawkes/terrorist thing. Even so, we cannot continue to play off the Guy Hawkes theme because Joe Sixpack doesn't get it and the media will always try to spin it negatively.

Every Joe Sixpack in America "gets" the Boston tea party. We don't have to explain ANYTHING. The media can't spin it negatively because it is ingrained as positive American history. And we can play off of it without limit right through the election.
Every time one of us swings a tea bag somewhere, everyone will "get" it and the press won't stop explaining it to those few who don't get it.

Swinging a tea bag is boooring / if not foolish. I don't think sending them to Congressmen will help either. And the media would think of it as creepy.

If there is not an interesting and popular action to go along with the symbol then is just isn't going to interest people.

[AceNZ]

I kinda like the banking idea. I have one (personal) problem with that though. I work for a pizza chain and i get paid via direct deposit. The only other option is to use a company "debit card". Basically they charge me to access my own earnings. That is outright theft. Unfortunately there is no other form of payment available. I'm sure many other people are in the same boat.

You using banks and them using you (and your money) are two different things. I also think it's reasonable for people to adopt the concept of a banking boycott to their personal circumstances.

Go ahead and keep your Direct Deposit setup. Then as soon as the deposit arrives, withdraw everything. Keep what you need for near-term spending money and use the rest to buy gold (for example), pay-down / pay-off credit cards, etc.

I'm going to start another thread on this idea.

[kill the banks]

ok, ok, Now i agree with you. But i don't think it is accurate to call them banks anymore. Your "Banks" = my "Corporations", we're talking about the same people. :)

ok ... their greatest talent is money changer usurpation and their usury powers ... they are skilled bankers and racketeers with a long history of takeover and manipulation , incl wars ... what ever you call them ~ don't tread on me or the constitution applies ... they however are treading by force if they have to ... this is our common enemy ... nite

remember remember andrew jackson
kill the banks

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

You using banks and them using you (and your money) are two different things. I also think it's reasonable for people to adopt the concept of a banking boycott to their personal circumstances.

Go ahead and keep your Direct Deposit setup. Then as soon as the deposit arrives, withdraw everything. Keep what you need for near-term spending money and use the rest to buy gold (for example), pay-down / pay-off credit cards, etc.

I'm going to start another thread on this idea.

awesome! thank you!

[LBT]

Here is a suggestion:

A group meets to repair a tattered version of the constitution, returning it to its former glory.
http://www.filegunner.net/uploadedimages/167450scaffold constitutuion.jpg

We can produce a template for making large versions. When printed they look torn and the wording is very faded. But there are outlines that the painters can see. They just paint between the lines (which are not visible from a distance). 10 people working for a few hours would repair the constitution.

Any size from 10 feet tall to huge billboards could be done.

[Minuteman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt defacing american currency illegal. So burning it breaks the law.

[kill the banks]

i think Bryan [ mod ] is setting up a protest group action against the federal reserve in all states ... perhaps we could merge our ideas

kill the banks

[runderwo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt defacing american currency illegal. So burning it breaks the law.

Who's going to arrest you? Destroying it makes everyone else's worth more anyway :)

[bolidew]

To get any result, we are gonna need a (first round) poll.

[Corydoras]

Revolutions in other countries have done pretty well with colors.

How about gold and silver?

Okay, in practical terms that would be yellow and gray for most clothes.
But that's a very distinctive look.

[Ann Kobialka]

On tea bags
the light side
if we pin them to our Ron Paul shirts and it rains we are going to ruin all our shirts
the dark side
sending anything in small bags to congressmen and senators just doesn't make it in todays troubled times Bob

[idiom]

The Hand Dying of the OP sounds like fun. Or possibly using gloves. It allows you to punch the air en masse at rallies and identify supporters on the street. (for the paranoid, communists were rounded up in shanghai and killed, the were identified by the red stains around their necks form their scarves.)

The colour is the question there. I prefer red for blood, representing that our Taxpayer dollars fund wars/abortions depending on who you are explaining too. :)

<obvious>: thus the blood is on the taxpayers hands. This is the ultimate truth of democracy.

[kill the banks]

Revolutions in other countries have done pretty well with colors.

How about gold and silver?

Okay, in practical terms that would be yellow and gray for most clothes.
But that's a very distinctive look.

got up late this morning [ up till 5am ] and thought of colors as well ... yes that's a common cause identity that will work ... gold would be an important symbol in positive & negative sense ... against : federal reserve and racketeer jekyll island fiat money debt system ... for : a return to constitutional money system and real money gold standard ... we could still get pins made for the cause & sell as campaign standard with liberty or death theme or don't tread on constitution theme or both ~ good luck

kill the banks

[TruckinMike]

we could pass out chocolate gold pieces. Beside, I love chocolate, lets kill to birds with one stone. Hunger and the Federal Reserve!:eek:

ok ok ok

in all seriousness...

Here is a suggestion:

A group meets to repair a tattered version of the constitution, returning it to its former glory.

http://www.filegunner.net/uploadedimages/167450scaffold%20constitutuion.jpg
We can produce a template for making large versions. When printed they look torn and the wording is very faded. But there are outlines that the painters can see. They just paint between the lines (which are not visible from a distance). 10 people working for a few hours would repair the constitution.

Any size from 10 feet tall to huge billboards could be done.

This is a great idea!

TM

[ConstitutionGal]

While I love the tea-bags to Congress concept, it won't fly. Since the 'anthrax' espisode, all their mail gets stopped and searched in various ways. Something will a loose leave inside it will probably not even get delivered and, if it does, it will be held up for who knows how long so there would be no way of even guesstimating at the date of their delivery. An option, might be to send the tea-bags to their local offices but I don't think that would have quite the same impact. Just FWIW.

[terryp]

only we can make our own out of DOLLAR BILLS. Don't know how to put up a pic of what i"m thing of but that would blend the awareness pin to the dollar plight.

[Spirit of '76]

Twice now in this this thread... I have no idea what that means.

Uh...

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

I know I am new to the RP forums but I hope you all will listen anyway. I happen to love the idea of sending tea bags to congress. I am a big fan of the Tv show Jericho and in the last episode one of the main characters uttered the line "nuts" to a man who was demanding the surrender of their town. The show was cancelled after that and fans of the show organized an effort to send thousands of pounds of peanuts to the network that ran the show. It got major media coverage, internet attention and the show was renewed shortly afterwards. I think if we could ork out a way to send some type of signal directly to capitol hill, the white house, our State legislatures,etc than we would get media attention. They ignore us when we make money, they ignore the blimp, they ignore practically everything positive we do in the name of Ron Paul and constitutional freedom but nobody would be able to ignore a caravan of delivery trucks dropping off thousands of pounds of tea bags in from the the hill or the white house or state legislature buildings. It could be done in conjunction with the tea party fundraiser (although I acknowledge that time is short for such a venture) and given a catchy slogan such as "America tea bags congress". Just a thought and keep up the great work guys because reading all of this over the last few days and knowing to what lengths my fellow RP fanatics are willing to go has really rejuvinated my spirit and faith in my fellow Americans.

[coboman]

Check out this idea



It's Time to Get America Back on the Same Page

http://ettc.lrhsd.org/archives/Constitution2.jpg
(note: insert quotes from luminaries along both sides of constitution from republicans, democrats, you name it etc, talking about why Ron Paul)

*insert text that talks about how Ron Paul's campaign is bringing people together from all different walks of life, all interested in one thing -- getting back on the same page: The Constitution. In order to bring it about they are getting behind a candidate with "a proven track record as a Champion of the Constitution."

Get America Back on the Same Page:
Vote for Ron Paul in the JanuFebruary Primary!
www.RonPaul2008.com


I just had this brainstorm tonight, and I thought I'd throw it out as raw meat for any of the designers we have in the crowd.


from another thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22965).

[constituent]

uhhh.... R3VO_|ution is no longer a powerful symbol?

crazy, guess i didn't get the memo.

[LBT]

Check out this idea




from another thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22965).

I like this idea too, but how to activate it as an event? A newsworthy event?

[LBT]

we could pass out chocolate gold pieces. Beside, I love chocolate, lets kill to birds with one stone. Hunger and the Federal Reserve!:eek:

ok ok ok

in all seriousness...


This is a great idea!

TM
Thanks for the first comment in 24 hours. I think this is actionable and promotable. Would love to see a meetup group try it sometime for a local PR campaign.

Anyone with a bit of Illustrator and photoshop knowledge can make the templates up. High res originals of the constitution are available via google image search.

[alicegardener]

Please reconsider the white feather. I saw a movie once on the theme of a guy receiving a white feather as a badge of shame for cowardice. The movie I think was named "The White Feather" in fact. It may be before your time but not for a lot of older Republicans who will have to be persuaded before RP gets the nomination. They are already thinking RP might be a coward for wanting to "quit and run". Bad, Bad Idea. Maybe another color of feather, but not a turkey feather for obvious reasons. Too bad eagle feathers are rare (and probably illega to boot). I know you could dye white feathers to look similar but thats another step that gets in the way.

But I do think you are on the right track with a common object because the symbol HAS to be easy, easy to aquire like a feather, easy to draw like the peace symbol.

The tea bag idea might work for awhile right after Dec. 16th. To get around the security precautions, you could just mail to congressmen the paper square at the ten of the string that has the label printed on it. You might be able to get away with an emptied tea bag too. It know it wouldn't have the same impact but at least it would get past security.

I agree 100% that a symbol would be important.

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

I know I am new to the RP forums but I hope you all will listen anyway. I happen to love the idea of sending tea bags to congress. I am a big fan of the Tv show Jericho and in the last episode one of the main characters uttered the line "nuts" to a man who was demanding the surrender of their town. The show was cancelled after that and fans of the show organized an effort to send thousands of pounds of peanuts to the network that ran the show. It got major media coverage, internet attention and the show was renewed shortly afterwards. I think if we could ork out a way to send some type of signal directly to capitol hill, the white house, our State legislatures,etc than we would get media attention. They ignore us when we make money, they ignore the blimp, they ignore practically everything positive we do in the name of Ron Paul and constitutional freedom but nobody would be able to ignore a caravan of delivery trucks dropping off thousands of pounds of tea bags in from the the hill or the white house or state legislature buildings. It could be done in conjunction with the tea party fundraiser (although I acknowledge that time is short for such a venture) and given a catchy slogan such as "America tea bags congress". Just a thought and keep up the great work guys because reading all of this over the last few days and knowing to what lengths my fellow RP fanatics are willing to go has really rejuvinated my spirit and faith in my fellow Americans.

How about instead of thousands of small letters with small teabags we have a "Chip In" fundraiser to buy LOTS of tea to be shipped to one place. The beauty of this is that it doesn't have to be done on the 16th. Our fundraising will be the action. The massive Tea delivery will be a reminder.

[JenHarris]

I personally like the idea of hand dye. It's powerful, it's dramatic, and it will get attention everywhere you go. I also like the idea of pins with colored hands on them and/or colored gloves for those who can't or won't actually dye their hand. I think those ideas would work great together, and I'd be willing to dye my hands.

[bolidew]

Can we come out a poll to further this discussion?

[Matthew Zak]

R

How about a big, colorful "R". Stands for "Ron" "Republican" and "Revolution".

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

R

How about a big, colorful "R". Stands for "Ron" "Republican" and "Revolution".

R3 (superscript 3 "cubed")

[JenHarris]

R³

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

nice! cap R?

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

(Smile)

Is Ron Paul a Republican? Bringing back the Republican Party...

[bolidew]

duplicate. nvm.

[bolidew]

R4

Ron Paul Revolution Restores the Republic (or Republican Party for Primary).

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

I like this a lot!

[Delain]

Good thinking!

My suggestion:

http://i3.tinypic.com/87848qh.jpg

R to the second power!

What R stands for, everybody is free to choose
- Ron Paul
- Revolution
- Republic
- ...

It doesnt really matter.

Its unique and its as easy made into a pendant to hang on a necklace as it is to tag on a bag or a wall.

R2

[bolidew]

///

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

"Restore the Republic"


that has chanting words written all over it.....