PDA

View Full Version : BLM Plans to Take 90,000 Acres From Texas Ranchers




fr33
04-14-2014, 08:12 PM
http://www.rfdtv.com/story/25206377/oklahoma-texas-border-dispute-has-ranchers-worried


BYERS, Texas (RFD-TV) Most people think the border between Texas and Oklahoma is the Red River. Unfortunately, it’s a little more complicated than that, especially along the part of the river where Tommy Henderson and his family ranch.

Henderson lost a lawsuit 30 years ago that moved part of the northern Texas border over a mile to the south.

The Bureau of Land Management [BLM] took 140 acres of his property and didn’t pay him one cent.

Now, they want to use his case as precedent to seize land along a 116-mile stretch of the river.

“They’re wanting to take the boundaries that the courts placed here and extend those east and west to the forks of the river north of Vernon and east to the 98th Meridian which is about 20 miles east of us,” Henderson explained.

BLM, which oversees public land in the United States, claims this land never belonged to Texas.

The Texas landowners who have lived and cared for that land for hundreds of years beg to differ.

BLM plans on taking the land anyway. Property owners will be forced to spend money on lawsuits to keep what is theirs.

For many, that property has been in their family for generations.

"How can BLM come in and say, "Hey, this isn't yours." Even though it’s patented from the state, you've always paid taxes on it. Our family has paid taxes for over 100 years on this place. We've got a deed to it. But yet they walked in and said it wasn't ours," said Henderson.

Ever since the Louisiana Purchase in 1803, there has been controversy over where Oklahoma ends and Texas begins.

In layman’s terms the boundary is the vegetation line on the south side of the Red River.

Over time the river moves. This movement north toward Oklahoma is the sticking point.

The sandy soils erode in a process called accretion, which wipes out the bank. So the property line follows the river.

BLM claims that the river moved by another process called avulsion. With avulsion, the land may be changed by flood or currents, but the property line isn’t. So BLM claims that when the river moved back north the property line stayed put.

It doesn’t help that Oklahoma defines avulsion differently than Texas and the U.S.

“Originally, here the river was out there where it is now and it eroded and accreted up to here, and then it eroded and accreted back. Well, their interpretation is that it eroded up to here but avulsed back. So when you listen to them it is always erosion to the south because the property line follows it then, but it’s always avulsion when it goes north. So the boundary can move south but it can never move back north," said Henderson.

About 90,000 acres could be seized by BLM, disappearing across a new state line. If they are allowed to take the land, it could also affect farmers and ranchers down river like Scott Carpenter, who ranches north of Nocona.

BLM couldn’t take his land, but there would be nothing to stop his neighbor across the river from claiming some of Scott’s property belongs to him. That is just one of the reasons Carpenter wants to help.

"We have numerous places that have been in our family for over a hundred of years, and you hate to see land that people’s worked hard for would lose,” said Carpenter. “As producers we are always on a defense. We have to make decisions to try to help ourselves to help one another."

Both ranchers have been in contact with U.S. Congressman Mac Thornberry, who is working to help stop the land grab. Henderson’s land probably won’t be affected this time, but he’s hoping what happened to him won’t happen to his fellow landowners.

This report is from our partners at the Texas Farm Bureau.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sAbiO0SThQ

I know the guy in the video and have some land close to where this is proposed to happen. From what I understand they want to take a strip up to 3 miles wide along the Red River from Childress all the way to Spanish Fort.

Suzanimal
04-14-2014, 08:48 PM
So sad and fucked up.

KCIndy
04-14-2014, 08:51 PM
This could all be rendered moot if Congress could be persuaded to defund the BLM.

HOLLYWOOD
04-14-2014, 08:55 PM
What does that phony sad excuse of a Texas governor say about the BLM brownshirts moving upon the ranchers?

Mr "Animal Husbandry" and states rights going to defend Texans/Ranchers or is it going to be revealed that Rick Perry is just another BS CON MAN politician.

LibertyEagle
04-14-2014, 09:04 PM
What does that phony sad excuse of a Texas governor say about the BLM brownshirts moving upon the ranchers?

Mr "Animal Husbandry" and states rights going to defend Texans/Ranchers or is it going to be revealed that Rick Perry is just another BS CON MAN politician.

He's a little preoccupied. lol

http://www.kvue.com/news/Rick-Perry-ethics-case-to-get-Texas-Grand-Jury--255242141.html

fr33
04-14-2014, 09:57 PM
This has potential for activism. The land owners here could take a cue from recent events in Nevada rather than rolling over or being defeated in the courts. Due to it's location and the greater number of people that will both be affected and the greater population density in north Texas as opposed to Nevada, there could be a large scale civil disobedience operation to stop BLM.

puppetmaster
04-14-2014, 10:11 PM
Ron Paul says:

This type of problem wouldn’t happen in Texas because all the land is owned privately. Its makes the point that no one really knows who is in charge. It makes the point that state and private ownership would have prevented this type of problem.

CPUd
04-14-2014, 10:14 PM
Maybe they should just move the river.


There has been a dispute between the TN and GA border for a while, too.

http://i.imgur.com/xG9mtPB.jpg

fr33
04-14-2014, 10:21 PM
Ron Paul says:

This type of problem wouldn’t happen in Texas because all the land is owned privately. Its makes the point that no one really knows who is in charge. It makes the point that state and private ownership would have prevented this type of problem.

Ron oversimplified it and misrepresented the reality of Texas. There are "public lands" in Texas where people pay to graze cattle.

This OP I posted is similar to what happened to Cliven Bundy 20 years ago. Land being taken away. There should have been hell to pay back then.

Pericles
04-14-2014, 10:33 PM
This really doesn't tell me anything. There is a 1991 agreement between TX and OK defining the border between the two states (generally speaking the south bank of the Red River).

If I read between the lines here, I think the story is that the BLM claims that the border is fixed and immoveable, and if the south bank of the Red River moves north, the land area that is created north of the 1991 border definition belongs to the BLM. But, I can't get past the screaming to get some facts.

fr33
04-14-2014, 10:54 PM
This really doesn't tell me anything. There is a 1991 agreement between TX and OK defining the border between the two states (generally speaking the south bank of the Red River).

If I read between the lines here, I think the story is that the BLM claims that the border is fixed and immoveable, and if the south bank of the Red River moves north, the land area that is created north of the 1991 border definition belongs to the BLM. But, I can't get past the screaming to get some facts.

It won't be Oklahoma or Texas land. It won't belong to private landowners. It will be a new federal land. They'll probably give it a name and call it a park. They will probably allow public use for recreation and possibly lease parts of it out for farming and ranching. They are going to take miles of land on the south bank away from it's owners.

fr33
04-14-2014, 11:10 PM
This really doesn't tell me anything. There is a 1991 agreement between TX and OK defining the border between the two states (generally speaking the south bank of the Red River).

If I read between the lines here, I think the story is that the BLM claims that the border is fixed and immoveable, and if the south bank of the Red River moves north, the land area that is created north of the 1991 border definition belongs to the BLM. But, I can't get past the screaming to get some facts.

My family bought a large farm from another family over 5 years ago but they kept the river land part for their recreational hunting. It's a large piece of land that they have and their family has been there since before the year 1900. The Oklahomans over the river aren't claiming that it's theirs. BLM is just jumping on a land grab oppurtunity. It has nothing to do with the border. Since when does a border between states need to be miles wide and owned by the federal government? I've seen this land and not only does it not belong to Oklahoma, it damn sure does not belong to the federal government.

oyarde
04-14-2014, 11:14 PM
Maybe The Comanche , Kiowa , Southern Cheyenne , Caddo and Arapaho should just file suit and claim the Red River . LOL

fr33
04-22-2014, 09:27 PM
Bump

Republicans warn BLM eyeing land grab along Texas-Oklahoma border (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/22/republicans-warn-blm-eyeing-land-grab-along-texas-oklahoma-border/)

euphemia
04-22-2014, 09:53 PM
There has been a dispute between the TN and GA border for a while, too.

It's because they want to take Chattanooga. If they wanted Memphis, we might pay them to take it.

fr33
04-25-2014, 11:31 PM
Bumping again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV8xDcCMa3g

I sure hope us Texans won't get thrown under the bus when the time comes like is happening to Bundy.

DamianTV
04-26-2014, 02:35 AM
#1 Repeat of Bundy incident about to occur in Texas

#2 I wonder if its not about a dispute between state borders, land, or even a grab of power. Its starting to sound like FEMA Region development. Is any of the Territory in dispute in a position where it may hold Military significance?

DamianTV
04-26-2014, 02:38 AM
(deleted, double post)

Suzanimal
08-01-2015, 10:32 AM
Thirty years to get his land back.:mad:


TEXAS FARMER WINS 30 YEAR BATTLE WITH BLM – GETS LAND BACK

A Texas farmer finally received land back that was taken from him by a court and given to the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM) more than thirty years ago. The victory puts land back into his undisputed possession and control that has been in his family since 1904. It also brings hope and a pathway to victory for other farmers who stand to lose up to 90,000 acres of land to the BLM.

Tommy Henderson met with BLM officials on the steps of the Clay County Courthouse in Henrietta, Texas, where he was presented a patent from the U.S. government bestowing rights to ownership and use of the property, according to an article by Lynn Walker in the Wichita Falls Times Record News. Henderson told the Times Record he hopes this will pave the way for dozens of other Red River land owners in Texas who are battling to keep their land from being taken by the BLM.

In a federal court decision in 1984, a judge stripped Henderson of ownership of a portion of his land located along the Red River in Texas. The Red River is Texas’ northern border with Oklahoma. Some of that land was given to the BLM and a small section was awarded to an Oklahoma man who brought the lawsuit. The Oklahoma rancher was attempting to claim land because of boundary changes due to erosion and evulsion.

Breitbart Texas brought national attention to the issue last April when the BLM was holding planning meetings on what to do with the land along the river they claimed belonged to the BLM. Texas’ leadership including then Attorney General Greg Abbott, then Lt. Governor David Dewhurst, then General Land Office Commissioner Jerry Patterson, and State Senator Craig Estes (R-Wichita Falls) joined with Texas’ U.S. Senators, Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX)59%
and Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX)96%
, and U.S. Rep. Mac Thornberry (R-TX)60%
to try to get the BLM to release the land back to the Texans who had believed they owned the land, in some cases for many generations. Then Governor Rick Perry weighed in on the issue in May when he said the “the federal government already owns too much land.”

...
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/08/01/texas-farmer-wins-30-year-battle-with-blm-gets-land-back/

phill4paul
08-01-2015, 10:51 AM
Property owners will be forced to spend money on lawsuits to keep what is theirs.

I know of a better way to spend money.

Pericles
08-01-2015, 06:58 PM
The BLM can just GTFO of Texas.

Dianne
08-01-2015, 07:04 PM
I like the Texas Governor, Abbot. I'm curious to see what he does about this. The Feds can take any and all property, any day of the week from anyone. I will never own land again. They just took a creek on my brother in law's land and 50' of land on both sides of the creek. That land has been in their family forever, it seems. If there is a drop of water, the Feds EPA own it.

TheTexan
08-01-2015, 07:38 PM
Henderson lost a lawsuit 30 years ago that moved part of the northern Texas border over a mile to the south.

The Bureau of Land Management [BLM] took 140 acres of his property and didn’t pay him one cent.

Sounds like he didn't vote hard enough.

Zippyjuan
08-01-2015, 08:15 PM
Lemme see if I get this straight. The river moved and some landowners got free additional acreage. The government is saying they aren't entitled to those gains they got even if it happened over a long time.

Christopher A. Brown
08-01-2015, 11:08 PM
So sad and fucked up.

Does that mean you would work with other Americans to stop it?

All that is needed is our agreement on constitutional intent to control our states then an Article V convention controlled by them to alter or abolish the current federal government by amending the constitution properly.

The very first step is the peoples agreement on the most prime constitutional intent which lawfully facilitates assurance all state legislators will work to see that intent in all amendments they propose and ratify. Big, but simple job.

That agreement is simple Americana viewed from a logical perspective separate from partisan politics and it makes "the people the rightful masters of the congress and the courts". Just like Lincoln said.

If you can agree and accept that the framers intended for us to alter or abolish government destructive to unalienable rights and that free speech has the ultimate purpose of enabling us to unify adequately to alter or abolish government so powerful can destructive to our unalienable rights, we ca get started.

I'm sure those Texans and a bunch of other people being run over by the BLM would appreciate the help.

Christopher A. Brown
08-01-2015, 11:15 PM
#1 Repeat of Bundy incident about to occur in Texas

#2 I wonder if its not about a dispute between state borders, land, or even a grab of power. Its starting to sound like FEMA Region development. Is any of the Territory in dispute in a position where it may hold Military significance?

Agenda 21 resource grab. Time for a lawful and peaceful revolution (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?471555-A-lawful-and-peaceful-revolution) to stop it, and a whole lot more.

fr33
11-23-2015, 06:53 PM
Texas Ranchers, Counties Sue Feds Over BLM Land Grab
http://www.infowars.com/texas-ranchers-counties-sue-feds-over-blm-land-grab/

Multiple ranchers, a sheriff and several Texas counties are suing the federal government for unconstitutionally attempting to seize thousands of acres of private property along the Red River.

Claiming the US Bureau of Land Management is violating citizens’ Fourth and Fifth Amendments and “infringing upon the sovereignty of local county governments,” a lawsuit filed in US District Court by nine private landowners, including one county sheriff, in addition to Wichita, Clay, and Wilbarger counties, seeks to end the dispute with the feds once and for all.

The lawsuit claims the federal government’s “ownership of property is limited to bottom-half of the sandy riverbed outside of Texas.

“Nonetheless, the BLM asserts that its boundary extends well past the riverbed into Texas and, in some instances, more than a mile outside of its lawful territory.”

Plaintiff and rancher Ken Aderholt spoke out last month about the federal takeover threatening nearly half of his family’s land and home.

Despite Aderholt possessing a deed to 1,250 acres of property in Harrold, Texas since 1941, the BLM recently deemed the title worthless, asserting ownership of some 600 acres.

“The BLM is saying we should have never had a deed to it. That Texas should have never produced that deed,” Aderholt told KAUZ.

“It is a land grab,” Aderholt insists. “As far as I am concerned, this is private property.”

Other ranchers included in the lawsuit say the BLM is targeting more than half of their land, with some unaware of the exact acreage being claimed by the agency.

Wichita, Clay and Wilbarger counties say the BLM’s claim “interferes with [their] ability to regulate and provide services for the health, benefit and welfare of [their] citizens, and infringes upon [their] sovereignty.” Wichita County Commissioners claim Texas Gov. Greg Abbott gave his blessing prior to participating in the lawsuit.

Additionally, plaintiff and Clay County Sheriff Kenneth Lemons asserts the BLM’s “vague assertion of ownership and jurisdiction interferes with [his] ability to discharge his law enforcement duties by preventing him from being able to discern” local from federal land.

“Furthermore, [the BLM’s] assertion of ownership causes trespassers to encroach onto private landowners’ land and engage in unlawful activity under the belief they cannot be removed because it is federal public land,” the lawsuit reads.

The feds argue the 116-mile stretch along the Red River has been theirs all along.

“The BLM has maintained that the entire parcel of land along 116-miles of the Red River in question has been public land managed by the federal government since the Louisiana Purchase in 1803, confirmed time and again with Spain and the Supreme Court of the United States rulings,” reports John Ingle for the Times Record News.

The ranchers and counties worry the BLM’s “vague assertions” have cast “a cloud upon individual Plaintiffs’ titles, preventing them from disposing of their property, borrowing against it, or otherwise fully enjoying their property.”

RJB
11-23-2015, 07:40 PM
"BLM." I read that as "Black Lives Matter."

Danke
11-23-2015, 08:39 PM
"BLM." I read that as "Black Lives Matter."

It is white privilege to own private property.

Anti Federalist
11-23-2015, 09:23 PM
It is white privilege to own private property.

And a microaggression.

Athan
02-01-2016, 09:26 AM
Whatever happens, no squatting or siege set up. Its a militia, not a castle defense game. Never forget, logistics isn't a footnote.