Michigan CPS has gigantic secret list of parents labeled “child abusers” without due process

[Anti Federalist]

Yet another list that being on can ruin your life.

But you are not allowed to know about the list, how you got on it, or how to get off.

And this excuse is getting thrown about more often: "Oh we can't give you due process, that would overwork the courts".

AmeriKa.

Liberty.

Freedom.



Michigan CPS has gigantic secret list of parents labeled “child abusers” without due process

http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/michigan-cps-database/

MICHIGAN — Hundreds of thousands of parents have been flagged as “child abusers” in a huge database maintained in secret by Michigan’s Child Protective Services (CPS) agency. The names are entered into the database without due process, without a judicial hearing, without an opportunity for defense, without a conviction, and without even letting the individuals know they have been targeted.

The list is called the Michigan Child Abuse and Neglect Central Registry. It reportedly contains the names of 275,000 “abusive” parents currently in that state alone, as WXYZ reported.

Most people on the list have no idea they have been put there. They have not received convictions, a trial, or even notification.

“In our constitutional system, they can’t cut off your electricity or welfare benefits without giving you a fair hearing first. But in Michigan, they can put you on the black list of child abusers, and they don’t have to give year a hearing, and that’s written in the law,” says attorney Elizabeth Warren.

Getting on the CPS database is like a scarlet letter that can negatively affect the lives of those who have blacklisted. Many good names have been smeared through unproven allegations.

“I can’t foster, I can’t get a job anywhere, and background check, I can’t get a job,” said Helen Miller of Battle Creek, who had been unfairly labeled a child abuser.

The list has grown so large because CPS staffers can enter names easily — “by the push of a button” as Warren described — with no oversight. Meanwhile, it is very difficult for a flagged person to get his or her name removed.

Current law is set up to keep the names on the list for life. The only recourse is for the accused person to go before a judge and attempt to prove his or her innocence — since the guilt has already been assigned in the eyes of the state.

“Across the country there is abundant data that says that these registries are unreliable,” says Warner. “So, it’s of no use to anybody to protect children.”

CPS ringleader Colin Parks says it just doesn’t make sense to give everyone due process. The agency’s intervention in 80,000 families per year would produce a volume of judicial hearings that the state isn’t willing to pursue.

“Out of all of those cases, the expectation that somebody would be able to review those decisions would be a very time consuming task,” Parks said.

Michigan CPS has had a colorful record of violating families. The case of Maryanne Godboldo, a single mother from Detroit, stands out as one of the most offensive. When she took her daughter off of the psychotropic drugs that were causing her harm, CPS bureaucrats labeled her a neglectful mother. A SWAT team was sent to abduct the child and see that she was drugged by force. Police held an armed standoff outside the home when Godboldo resolved to protect her daughter by any means necessary.

In September 2014, a reform law goes into effect which will change the state blacklisting system. Among the changes, parents will be notified via letter as they are entered into the database — still without due process. The list of reasons to be entered will be narrowed.

Unfortunately, the accused individuals will only have 6 months to appeal before they lose that right, permanently.

The reforms don’t nearly go far enough to reign in the agency that profits from abducting children and breaking apart families. CPS has earned similar criticisms in every other state, although it is unknown what sort of secret databases other states are keeping. Increased awareness and citizen activism will be required to defend families from the unrestrained state power.

[Christian Liberty]

I've had conflicted feelings about the idea of a "CPS" (Of course, this would be before I became a voluntarist) for awhile because I felt like, and still do feel , that no parent has a right to genuinely abuse their child.

But, at this point I'm convinced that individuals need to man up and take action as a community when genuine abuse happens. Government provides a means by which people can individually wash their hands of the responsibility of choosing to change people's lives forever, and its disgusting.

If someone is really a child abuser, man up and deal with it. And deal individually with the fact that you are taking action that will change the life of both the parent and the child forever. If something is serious enough to warrant such, man up and accept the responsibility. Do not let bureaucracy mask responsibility.

[phill4paul]

http://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/8ae033ee55.gif

[KCIndy]

I've been saying this for some time now. In this new paradigm of so-called "law enforcement" you are now guilty until proven innocent. Period. This way the bulk of their work is already done.

If and when anyone gets out of line... when anyone complains, or calls to task one of the Anointed Ones, when anyone DARES to point out that the King wears no clothes, they don't need to make up an excuse to come get you. That work was done long ago.

Now you'll just be rounded up at their convenience, the speed of which will be directly proportional to the severity of whatever Thought Crime you've committed.

Welcome to the New Amerika. Check your freedoms at the door. Be sure to wipe your feet. Line to the camps forms to the left.

And may God have mercy on your soul.

[Christian Liberty]

And yet most people don't even see the problem. Its sad.

[Origanalist]

CPS ringleader Colin Parks says it just doesn’t make sense to give everyone due process. The agency’s intervention in 80,000 families per year would produce a volume of judicial hearings that the state isn’t willing to pursue.


But it makes sense to allow some ignorant fuck to put peoples names in there without any accountability, got it.

[Occam's Banana]

Yet another list that being on can ruin your life.

But you are not allowed to know about the list, how you got on it, or how to get off.

Paging Franz Kafka ... paging Franz Kafka ... please call the operator on any house courtesy phone, Mr. Kafka ...

[Philhelm]

CPS ringleader Colin Parks says it just doesn’t make sense to give everyone due process. The agency’s intervention in 80,000 families per year would produce a volume of judicial hearings that the state isn’t willing to pursue.

This is why, if there is ever an uprising, no mercy should be given to the enemies of liberty. If you hear tales of a man nailing tyrants to crosses and incinerating them while reading their list of crimes against Natural Law, chances are that it will be me. The NAP people can go hang themselves - the defense of liberty should be so extreme, so brutal, that tyrants will tread lightly in the future. People wired to be ruthless, and to exert their will on others, won't be stopped with protest and sit-ins. Incineration, on the other hand, would give even a psychopath pause.

[tod evans]

This is why, if there is ever an uprising, no mercy should be given to the enemies of liberty. If you hear tales of a man nailing tyrants to crosses and incinerating them while reading their list of crimes against Natural Law, chances are that it will be me. The NAP people can go hang themselves - the defense of liberty should be so extreme, so brutal, that tyrants will tread lightly in the future. People wired to be ruthless, and to exert their will on others, won't be stopped with protest and sit-ins. Incineration, on the other hand, would give even a psychopath pause.

Hear-hear!

[pcosmar]

And when I said that I have been blacklisted,, people called me crazy.

No one will give me a reason (from my background checks) why they won't hire me. They can not or will not say why?

even though I gave more information on my crimes than the Background check provided.

[osan]

You're all just mal-contents. Don't you realize this is for the children?

You're all just against society and I hope there is a secret database that every last one of you are on so society will be protected.

I want to be safe and anything they do is OK because they know best. That is what they are paid to do. I have nothing to hide and therefore nothing to fear. You all are afraid because you're up to no good and hate society and don't care about the children and are racists and hate women and are self-haters too and I hate you and hope you all die so the rest of us can be safe and society will be protected and you won't be able to hurt the children anymore and you should all be sterilized so you can't have children and the ones you have should be taken away from you and I know you hate Obama and are against society and the children and don't care if I'm not safe and that women get raped all the time and you think it's all funny because you hate everything and hate yourselves and hate society and hate children and hate women and are racist and don't pay your fair share and don't accept your debt to society because you are against it and use roads you don't pay for and I just hate you so much and you need to go to jail and be raped and killed because you are such haters and all you do is try to force your religion on everyone and you're intolerant and should be killed because of that and you hate Jews and want to see them put back in the ovens and you hate the environment and laugh when you see dolphins killed and you want nucular energy and you drive big SUVs and should be killed because you pollute the earth and make species extinct every day and hate natural medicine and organic food and are all conspiracy theorists who think everyone is out to get you because you're against society and you worship guns because you do nothing but hate and want to kill everything that isn't just like you and just want to oppress everyone because of white privilege and want to go back to Jim Crow and lynching because guns make you think you have power which is all you're interested in so you can kill everyone you hate because they're not just like you and I hope someone makes you all extinct for the good of the planet and you're all for war and hate peace and you're dangerous and should be dead because you threaten enlightened people like us and we hate you and don't want you and die die die, all die.

I could go on all day about how evil you all are but I'm late for my yoga class. Why don't you all do the world a favor and die today and make it a better place. We don't need you and don't want you here and if they take you to jail we will be happy and the world will be better and you can't hurt us anymore.


-Barbara A. Zdravecky

[Philhelm]

You're all just mal-contents. Don't you realize this is for the children?

You're all just against society and I hope there is a secret database that every last one of you are on so society will be protected.

I want to be safe and anything they do is OK because they know best. That is what they are paid to do. I have nothing to hide and therefore nothing to fear. You all are afraid because you're up to no good and hate society and don't care about the children and are racists and hate women and are self-haters too and I hate you and hope you all die so the rest of us can be safe and society will be protected and you won't be able to hurt the children anymore and you should all be sterilized so you can't have children and the ones you have should be taken away from you and I know you hate Obama and are against society and the children and don't care if I'm not safe and that women get raped all the time and you think it's all funny because you hate everything and hate yourselves and hate society and hate children and hate women and are racist and don't pay your fair share and don't accept your debt to society because you are against it and use roads you don't pay for and I just hate you so much and you need to go to jail and be raped and killed because you are such haters and all you do is try to force your religion on everyone and you're intolerant and should be killed because of that and you hate Jews and want to see them put back in the ovens and you hate the environment and laugh when you see dolphins killed and you want nucular energy and you drive big SUVs and should be killed because you pollute the earth and make species extinct every day and hate natural medicine and organic food and are all conspiracy theorists who think everyone is out to get you because you're against society.

I could go on all day about how evil you all are but I'm late for my yoga class. Why don't you all do the world a favor and die today and make it a better place. We don't need you and don't want you here and if they take you to jail we will be happy and the world will be better and you can't hurt us anymore.


-Barbara A. Zdravecky

Wow, this is commendable. You have just managed to include the entirety of Progressive intellectual thought in one post!

[osan]

Wow, this is commendable. You have just managed to include the entirety of Progressive intellectual thought in one post!

I see you've noticed the redundant hypocrisy.

My work here is done.

[tod evans]

I see you've noticed the redundant hypocrisy.

My work here is done.

Enjoy your tofu...;)

[Origanalist]

Wow, this is commendable. You have just managed to include the entirety of Progressive intellectual thought in one post!

I'm not sure, but I think he came pretty close.

[osan]

I'm not sure, but I think he came pretty close.

Did I miss something? Editors are useful and plentiful. :)

God... anyone else here remember when a "good editor" was hard to find and $$? Those were the days.

[thoughtomator]

They'll address the issue - as soon as the problem starts happening to police chiefs, judges, and other commissars.

[Suzanimal]

Wow, this is commendable. You have just managed to include the entirety of Progressive intellectual thought in one post!


I'm not sure, but I think he came pretty close.

Very good, it's only missing something about guns...

[tangent4ronpaul]

Just to point something out, this database contains about a third of a million names. The population of Michigan is a hair under 10 million. That means that ~1;30 MI residents is on the list. since 27% of the population is under 18 and unlikely to be parents, that's about 1;20 being on the list. Then you have people who never reproduced or are in retirement homes, etc... what are we down to? about 1;10, or maybe 1:15 of MI state parents are in this DB?

Something is very, very wrong here!

-t

[osan]

Very good, it's only missing something about guns...

Not any more.

[Anti Federalist]

Paging Franz Kafka ... paging Franz Kafka ... please call the operator on any house courtesy phone, Mr. Kafka ...

Phone call for Mr. Joseph Heller, Mr. Joseph Heller, please come to the front desk for an urgent phone call.

[pcosmar]

Something is very, very wrong here!

-t

Very wrong,,

on several levels.

[Anti Federalist]

You're all just mal-contents. Don't you realize this is for the children?

You're all just against society and I hope there is a secret database that every last one of you are on so society will be protected.

I want to be safe and anything they do is OK because they know best. That is what they are paid to do. I have nothing to hide and therefore nothing to fear. You all are afraid because you're up to no good and hate society and don't care about the children and are racists and hate women and are self-haters too and I hate you and hope you all die so the rest of us can be safe and society will be protected and you won't be able to hurt the children anymore and you should all be sterilized so you can't have children and the ones you have should be taken away from you and I know you hate Obama and are against society and the children and don't care if I'm not safe and that women get raped all the time and you think it's all funny because you hate everything and hate yourselves and hate society and hate children and hate women and are racist and don't pay your fair share and don't accept your debt to society because you are against it and use roads you don't pay for and I just hate you so much and you need to go to jail and be raped and killed because you are such haters and all you do is try to force your religion on everyone and you're intolerant and should be killed because of that and you hate Jews and want to see them put back in the ovens and you hate the environment and laugh when you see dolphins killed and you want nucular energy and you drive big SUVs and should be killed because you pollute the earth and make species extinct every day and hate natural medicine and organic food and are all conspiracy theorists who think everyone is out to get you because you're against society and you worship guns because you do nothing but hate and want to kill everything that isn't just like you and just want to oppress everyone because of white privilege and want to go back to Jim Crow and lynching because guns make you think you have power which is all you're interested in so you can kill everyone you hate because they're not just like you and I hope someone makes you all extinct for the good of the planet.

I could go on all day about how evil you all are but I'm late for my yoga class. Why don't you all do the world a favor and die today and make it a better place. We don't need you and don't want you here and if they take you to jail we will be happy and the world will be better and you can't hurt us anymore.


-Barbara A. Zdravecky

http://replygif.net/i/95.gif

[KCIndy]

This is why, if there is ever an uprising, no mercy should be given to the enemies of liberty. If you hear tales of a man nailing tyrants to crosses and incinerating them while reading their list of crimes against Natural Law, chances are that it will be me. The NAP people can go hang themselves - the defense of liberty should be so extreme, so brutal, that tyrants will tread lightly in the future. People wired to be ruthless, and to exert their will on others, won't be stopped with protest and sit-ins. Incineration, on the other hand, would give even a psychopath pause.


I agree.

And maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any conflict with the NAP (Non-Aggression Principle) here. The tyrants and psychopaths have already opened the door to conflict through their own actions. There is nothing wrong with using force - lethal or otherwise - to defend one's life, family and property.

The only way to ensure a zero percent recidivism rate for a sadistic, psychopathic tyrant is to make sure he can't assume power again.

Harsh? You bet.

Effective? Just ask Benito Mussolini... or Mummar Gaddafi... or Nicola Ceausescu... Anyone who doesn't know what these three had in common should look them up. Interesting reading and pertinent history.

[Cleaner44]

Someone needs to add every Michigan state government worker to the list...

[devil21]

Im calling bs on this line if the list is indeed "secret".


“I can’t foster, I can’t get a job anywhere, and background check, I can’t get a job,” said Helen Miller of Battle Creek, who had been unfairly labeled a child abuser."

Hyperbole. The list sucks for a ton of reasons but other than the foster part, this list isn't preventing anyone from getting jobs or showing up in background checks unless there's an actual arrest/conviction associated with it.

[Anti Federalist]

Hyperbole. The list sucks for a ton of reasons but other than the foster part, this list isn't preventing anyone from getting jobs or showing up in background checks unless there's an actual arrest/conviction associated with it.

And you know this how?

I know precisely how deeply the outfit I work for digs into the matrix for details on your life.

Your name popping up on list like this would most certainly disqualify you for employment.

[devil21]

And you know this how?

I know precisely how deeply the outfit I work for digs into the matrix for details on your life.

Your name popping up on list like this would most certainly disqualify you for employment.

If it's a secret list then it's not open to background check software. The definition of "secret" is to be open? Which is it? Secret or not? Employment with the gov't may be affected (who here advocates more gov't jobs??) but not jobs in general. You can run a background check on yourself online and have been able to for a long time. If like 5-10% of Michigan people were on this list and being denied jobs because of it, this would NOT be the first time we've read about it.

[Anti Federalist]

If it's a secret list then it's not open to background check software. The definition of "secret" is to be open? Which is it? Secret or not? Employment with the gov't may be affected (who here advocates more gov't jobs??) but not jobs in general. You can run a background check on yourself online and have been able to for a long time. If like 5-10% of Michigan people were on this list and being denied jobs because of it, this would NOT be the first time we've read about it.

I'm pretty sure this is not the first time this has come up.

[Pericles]

Wow, this is commendable. You have just managed to include the entirety of Progressive intellectual thought in one post!

OTOH, what made the commendable effort of the erudite board member possible,is that there is so little Progressive intellectual thought.

[pcosmar]

If it's a secret list then it's not open to background check software. The definition of "secret" is to be open? Which is it? Secret or not? Employment with the gov't may be affected (who here advocates more gov't jobs??) but not jobs in general. You can run a background check on yourself online and have been able to for a long time. If like 5-10% of Michigan people were on this list and being denied jobs because of it, this would NOT be the first time we've read about it.

I have had 2 background checks done (that I know of) since I returned to Michigan. Both for employment.

And could not get an answer as to WHY I was turned down.

And got a huge runaround even trying to see the report,, to the point of the company doing a second one without permission and trying to pass it off as the first one they did.

and still no reason why I was disqualified to mow grass in a cemetery.

Dude,, I can not even get hired to shovel shit on a farm. I am blacklisted for employment.

I will put more pertinent information on the application (that states that a prior record is not a consideration) than what I have been shown.

Want to read it?,, I posted the whole mess.
http://pcosmar.blogspot.com/2009/08/employment-woes.html
http://pcosmar.blogspot.com/2009/08/update-background-check.html

You can go on and on about what "should be",, I know what reality is.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Just be sure to put on the application next time that you are not into necrophilia or bestiality. :rolleyes:

-t

[UtahApocalypse]

I imagine the fact my wife and I have chosen not to vaccinate our daughter that would get us on the list.

[Pericles]

I agree.

And maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any conflict with the NAP (Non-Aggression Principle) here. The tyrants and psychopaths have already opened the door to conflict through their own actions. There is nothing wrong with using force - lethal or otherwise - to defend one's life, family and property.

The only way to ensure a zero percent recidivism rate for a sadistic, psychopathic tyrant is to make sure he can't assume power again.

Harsh? You bet.

Effective? Just ask Benito Mussolini... or Mummar Gaddafi... or Nicola Ceausescu... Anyone who doesn't know what these three had in common should look them up. Interesting reading and pertinent history.
In the great .45ACP vs. 9mm debate, I'm a fan of the .45 cal ACP, but 9mm is the perfect cartridge for summary executions.

[devil21]

I have had 2 background checks done (that I know of) since I returned to Michigan. Both for employment.

And could not get an answer as to WHY I was turned down.

And got a huge runaround even trying to see the report,, to the point of the company doing a second one without permission and trying to pass it off as the first one they did.

and still no reason why I was disqualified to mow grass in a cemetery.

Dude,, I can not even get hired to shovel shit on a farm. I am blacklisted for employment.

I will put more pertinent information on the application (that states that a prior record is not a consideration) than what I have been shown.

Want to read it?,, I posted the whole mess.
http://pcosmar.blogspot.com/2009/08/employment-woes.html
http://pcosmar.blogspot.com/2009/08/update-background-check.html

You can go on and on about what "should be",, I know what reality is.

Agree to disagree I guess. No doubt shenanigans go on but I still say that a "secret list" (their words) is something that wouldn't be commercially available to private background check companies, especially since you can perform a background check on yourself for relatively cheap to verify what info is being reported about you.

[Anti Federalist]

Agree to disagree I guess. No doubt shenanigans go on but I still say that a "secret list" (their words) is something that wouldn't be commercially available to private background check companies, especially since you can perform a background check on yourself for relatively cheap to verify what info is being reported about you.

Secret, in that maybe you can never be sure.

[pcosmar]

Agree to disagree I guess. No doubt shenanigans go on but I still say that a "secret list" (their words) is something that wouldn't be commercially available to private background check companies, especially since you can perform a background check on yourself for relatively cheap to verify what info is being reported about you.

Way to miss the point there. likely from not reading it.

Aside from very minor and inconsequential points (like an apartment i could not have possibly rented) It lacked the only real crimes I ever committed. (No mention at all)
Which I did put on my application.

And there was nothing in the reports that would give any reason for not hiring,, and no reason was ever,, at any time articulated.

And there were no other applicants to compete with.. I was it.

It is what is not there (That would be the Secret part). And I could never get an answer to that question.
The Groundskeeper Supervisor (that wanted to hire me) could not get an answer.

There was a reason.. They just are not saying what it is.

[pcosmar]

Secret, in that maybe you can never be sure.

Secret as in very illegal.. and a blacklist is very hard to prove,, due to it being very illegal.

If the existence is proven,,, there will be many more lawsuits.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2012/10/federal_lawsuit_says_michigans.html#incart_river_d efault
http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2012/10/parents_protest_placement_on_s.html
http://www.michigan.gov/dhs/0,4562,7-124-7119_50648_7193-159490--,00.html


I think I will be watching this.. I have no children.. but may be on it due to an arrest for domestic violence. (charges were dropped)

[Anti Federalist]

Secret as in very illegal.. and a blacklist is very hard to prove,, due to it being very illegal.

If the existence is proven,,, there will be many more lawsuits.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2012/10/federal_lawsuit_says_michigans.html#incart_river_d efault
http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2012/10/parents_protest_placement_on_s.html
http://www.michigan.gov/dhs/0,4562,7-124-7119_50648_7193-159490--,00.html


I think I will be watching this.. I have no children.. but may be on it due to an arrest for domestic violence. (charges were dropped)

Sue 'em blind.

Sounds highly likely that you've been directly harmed by this abomination.

[kcchiefs6465]

Secret as in very illegal.. and a blacklist is very hard to prove,, due to it being very illegal.

If the existence is proven,,, there will be many more lawsuits.

I think I will be watching this.. I have no children.. but may be on it due to an arrest for domestic violence. (charges were dropped)
Even arrests without conviction are obtainable. I was shocked to learn that, actually.

[WM_in_MO]

It doesn't surprise me one bit, sadly.

Not to derail but this image:

http://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/8ae033ee55.gif
Made me think of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KyKdM-4uZw

[devil21]

Way to miss the point there. likely from not reading it.

Aside from very minor and inconsequential points (like an apartment i could not have possibly rented) It lacked the only real crimes I ever committed. (No mention at all)
Which I did put on my application.

And there was nothing in the reports that would give any reason for not hiring,, and no reason was ever,, at any time articulated.

And there were no other applicants to compete with.. I was it.

It is what is not there (That would be the Secret part). And I could never get an answer to that question.
The Groundskeeper Supervisor (that wanted to hire me) could not get an answer.

There was a reason.. They just are not saying what it is.

Were you ever involved in anything that would have possibly put you on a "secret child abuser list" in Michigan? That is what this thread is about, after all. If not then I don't see what we're even arguing about.

eta: yes a domestic violence arrest could be it for sure. That is public record, not secret. All arrests are public record, except for new NDAA type shit of course.

[Weston White]

Did I miss something? Editors are useful and plentiful. :)

Perhaps include something about being anti-war, against the spreading of global democracy, protest mongrels, etc?

...And say does CPS every publicly rail against the baby-killers over at Planned Parenthood? They are totally mum aren't they?

[Mini-Me]

Agree to disagree I guess. No doubt shenanigans go on but I still say that a "secret list" (their words) is something that wouldn't be commercially available to private background check companies, especially since you can perform a background check on yourself for relatively cheap to verify what info is being reported about you.

Are background checks entirely standardized, or could another part of them involve checking with a government agency (which maintains lists) about whether a particular name is on one (for a small fee perhaps ;))? This would allow them to query a "secret list" for a single name without having access to the whole list.

[devil21]

Are background checks entirely standardized, or could another part of them involve checking with a government agency (which maintains lists) about whether a particular name is on one (for a small fee perhaps ;))? This would allow them to query a "secret list" for a single name without having access to the whole list.

Standard in the sense that the information available is standardized to all companies that perform background checks in the state, but of course there are various depths that a check can go, if the requestor pays accordingly. Sorta like the difference between a Confidential clearance background and a Top Secret clearance background. Same database info for both but one goes deeper than the other.

If I were to take a guess, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle where the state maintains a general "abuser" list that includes every name of someone in the state arrested on any assault/abuse/battering charge, regardless of whether a conviction was obtained. However, that would not be a secret list since the arrest info itself is public record. There are no secret lists of public information.....