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klamath
03-20-2014, 12:26 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/07/world/europe/crimea-journalists-threatened/?iref=obnetwork


A security camera in Simferopol, Crimea's capital, captured the image of a Bulgarian freelance journalist and his assistant being attacked.

CNN's Michael Holmes said the two were spotted as they filmed masked men "removing TV equipment from another television outfit and basically stealing it." When those men saw that they were being filmed, Holmes learned, they pounced -- wrestling the journalist to the ground, snatching the equipment and at one point even holding a gun to the journalist's head.

Anti Federalist
03-20-2014, 12:33 PM
LOL - Really?

Film a cop.

That's any given day in AmeriKa.

klamath
03-20-2014, 04:13 PM
Funny about the purely Russian phenomenon of have dash cameras everwhere is to protect themselves from extreme corrupt Russian police

RJB
03-20-2014, 04:19 PM
I posted this else where but it seems more appropriate here.

I know this seems like there are a lot of Putin fans vs the Ukrainians, but to me it's anti-war against pro-war. The only reason the media shows us these images of Russian atrocities is to gin us up to for war. This goes back to Syria and beyond.

No one is hearing everything. Mostly it's propaganda from either side. I'm not a Russian or a Ukrainian fan. I am for keeping my sons from another pointless war.

Most of us have been called Khadafy, Sadam Hussein, etc. supporters when in reality we just want our government to keep our troops and dollars out of foreign entanglements that we will only screw up more.

Anti Federalist
03-20-2014, 04:20 PM
Funny about the purely Russian phenomenon of have dash cameras everwhere is to protect themselves from extreme corrupt Russian police

Not just corrupt cops, but insurance fraud.

In light of police abuse cases here, I highly recommend doing the same at any traffic stop.


Why Almost Everyone in Russia Has a Dash Cam

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/02/russian-dash-cams/

The sheer size of the country, combined with lax — and often corrupt — law enforcement, and a legal system that rarely favors first-hand accounts of traffic collisions has made dash cams all but a requirement for motorists.

“You can get into your car without your pants on, but never get into a car without a dash cam,” Aleksei Dozorov, a motorists’ rights activist in Russia told Radio Free Europe last year.

Do a search for “Russia dash cam crash” in YouTube — or even better, Yandex.ru, the county’s equivalent of Google — and you’ll find thousands of videos showing massive crashes, close calls and attempts at insurance fraud by both other drivers and pedestrians.

And Russian drivers are accident prone.

klamath
03-20-2014, 04:21 PM
I posted this else where but it seems more appropriate here.

I know this seems like there are a lot of Putin fans vs the Ukrainians, but to me it's anti-war against pro-war. The only reason the media shows us these images of Russian atrocities is to gin us up to for war. This goes back to Syria and beyond.

No one is hearing everything. Mostly it's propaganda from either side. I'm not a Russian or a Ukrainian fan. I am for keeping my sons from another pointless war.

Most of us have been called Khadafy, Sadam Hussein, etc. supporters when in reality we just want our government to keep our troops and dollars out of foreign entanglements that we will only screw up more.If that is all you want I back you 100%. If you support Putin's action I will call the hypocrisy.

Anti Federalist
03-20-2014, 04:22 PM
I agree and am in the same camp.

Trying to even make sense of all the competing factions, and leftover Soviet detritus in this mess is a headache inducing "google nightmare".

None of our damn business, do not care.


I posted this else where but it seems more appropriate here.

I know this seems like there are a lot of Putin fans vs the Ukrainians, but to me it's anti-war against pro-war. The only reason the media shows us these images of Russian atrocities is to gin us up to for war. This goes back to Syria and beyond.

No one is hearing everything. Mostly it's propaganda from either side. I'm not a Russian or a Ukrainian fan. I am for keeping my sons from another pointless war.

Most of us have been called Khadafy, Sadam Hussein, etc. supporters when in reality we just want our government to keep our troops and dollars out of foreign entanglements that we will only screw up more.

klamath
03-20-2014, 04:24 PM
Not just corrupt cops, but insurance fraud.

In light of police abuse cases here, I highly recommend doing the same at any traffic stop.


Why Almost Everyone in Russia Has a Dash Cam

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/02/russian-dash-cams/

The sheer size of the country, combined with lax — and often corrupt — law enforcement, and a legal system that rarely favors first-hand accounts of traffic collisions has made dash cams all but a requirement for motorists.

“You can get into your car without your pants on, but never get into a car without a dash cam,” Aleksei Dozorov, a motorists’ rights activist in Russia told Radio Free Europe last year.

Do a search for “Russia dash cam crash” in YouTube — or even better, Yandex.ru, the county’s equivalent of Google — and you’ll find thousands of videos showing massive crashes, close calls and attempts at insurance fraud by both other drivers and pedestrians.

And Russian drivers are accident prone.
I had the explained to me directly by the Russia members of my family from Russia

Anti Federalist
03-20-2014, 04:27 PM
I had the explained to me directly by the Russia members of my family from Russia

I have no doubt as to the validity of that.

Corrupt cops, insurance fraudsters, highwaymen, mobbed up muggers...all a good reason.

RJB
03-20-2014, 04:29 PM
If that is all you want I back you 100%. If you support Putin's action I will call the hypocrisy.

Then we're cool. I get a bit hyper when I see what lead to the Iraq war, Vietnam, etc. happening again.

susano
03-20-2014, 04:33 PM
This CNN piece is from March 7, when tensions were very high because of a US orchestrated coup in Kyiv where mobs of extremely violent maniacs ascended to power. There is no indication that whoever did it were anything other than anti Maidan Russian Ukrainians, over reacting to the shit that went down up north. Of course the NWO war pimps at CNN would report this, WITH SPIN, and never report the other side of the story (US backed neo nazi coup). I cannot believe you buy this bullshit, klamuth. Worse yet, you title this "Putin fascism"? WTF does Putin have to do with it? NOTHING.

ETA: Putin is not a fascist nor a communist.

juleswin
03-20-2014, 04:33 PM
Funny about the purely Russian phenomenon of have dash cameras everwhere is to protect themselves from extreme corrupt Russian police

My friend who has family in Russia(Uzbekistan family living in Moscow) says the dash cam cameras are mainly installed for insurance use and not to catch cops doing illegal act. I mean, what will stop a corrupt cops from seizing the camera just set in the middle of the dashboard, when you believe the whole system leading up to Putin is corrupt?

But hey we all know that you will find any way to bash and criticize Russia/Putin

susano
03-20-2014, 04:38 PM
My friend who has family in Russia(Kazakhstan family living in Moscow) says the dash cam cameras are mainly installed for insurance use and not to catch cops doing illegal act. I mean, what will stop a corrupt cops from seizing the camera just set in the middle of the dashboard, when you believe the whole system leading up to Putin is corrupt?

But hey we all know that you will find any way to bash and criticize Russia/Putin


I'm also amused by the dash cam to protect from police assertion of the OP. Erm, last I checked, the Yoo Ess Ay LE have murdered more innocent people in the last decade than all of the troops killed in Iraq. Do Russian cops beat to death homeless and schizophrenics and defenseless old people? Do Russian cops murder dogs for shits and giggles?

klamath
03-20-2014, 04:44 PM
Then we're cool. I get a bit hyper when I see what lead to the Iraq war, Vietnam, etc. happening again.I am probably more anti war than you are. I even question the revolutionary war. At this point I don't think it is going to happen or the Ukrainians troops wouldn't be pulling out of Crimea.

silverhandorder
03-20-2014, 04:45 PM
But hey we all know that you will find any way to bash and criticize Russia/Putin

There is heavy bias in Russian expat families against Russian(former soviet era governments) government. My family also has rose colored goggles for what is going on here and yet follow Russian news and opposition media and hate everything about Russian government. IF they kept the same standard for our government they would all be Ron Paul activists.


I am probably more anti war than you are. I even question the revolutionary war. At this point I don't think it is going to happen or the Ukrainians troops wouldn't be pulling out of Crimea.

Hehe I don't support any wars either :D. Cheers.

I think 80% chance everything is going to settle down now that Russians have their fleet secured. There is a small chance that they will go and take eastern Ukraine. But in reality they prefer counter ops, which are slow and don't result in military intervention. They took back Ukraine in 2010 and will do so again.

klamath
03-20-2014, 04:48 PM
My friend who has family in Russia(Kazakhstan family living in Moscow) says the dash cam cameras are mainly installed for insurance use and not to catch cops doing illegal act. I mean, what will stop a corrupt cops from seizing the camera just set in the middle of the dashboard, when you believe the whole system leading up to Putin is corrupt?

But hey we all know that you will find any way to bash and criticize Russia/Putin Not when every car on the road has video. My information come from a direct family member. I don't bash Russians, I will call KGB putin out to your horror.

Philhelm
03-20-2014, 04:51 PM
The face of Putin facism

Shouldn't the thread title be "The fasc of Putin facism?"

silverhandorder
03-20-2014, 04:52 PM
Not when every car on the road has video. My information come from a direct family member. I don't bash Russians, I will call KGB putin out to your horror.

Insurance use and anti corrupt cop measure is basically the same thing. Let's just face the facts alone. We both can agree that driving in Russia is much worse then it is here. We all saw videos of crazy driving there. So the incidence rate there is much higher. In that case it is economical to pay for dash cams rather then deal with investigations.

klamath
03-20-2014, 04:52 PM
There is heavy bias in Russian expat families against Russian(former soviet era governments) government. My family also has rose colored goggles for what is going on here and yet follow Russian news and opposition media and hate everything about Russian government. IF they kept the same standard for our government they would all be Ron Paul activists.



Hehe I don't support any wars either :D. Cheers.

I think 80% chance everything is going to settle down now that Russians have their fleet secured. There is a small chance that they will go and take eastern Ukraine. But in reality they prefer counter ops, which are slow and don't result in military intervention. They took back Ukraine in 2010 and will do so again.
My family members are NOT expat. They are Russian engineers at a Russian aircraft plant.

silverhandorder
03-20-2014, 04:56 PM
My family members are NOT expat. They are Russian engineers at a Russian aircraft plant.

I assume you don't live in Russia. What is the disposition of your family living outside of RF? Wouldn't you say that your relatives relationship with your family members would be strained if they happen to be pro-Putin? Generally families tend to think alike.

klamath
03-20-2014, 05:09 PM
I assume you don't live in Russia. What is the disposition of your family living outside of RF? Wouldn't you say that your relatives relationship with your family members would be strained if they happen to be pro-Putin? Generally families tend to think alike. They are actually just people that try to live their lives the best they can and have a great outlook on life. They generally just say the whole system is corrupt and figure out how to get around the inefficient system. The stories about the "book" are hilarious. From birth to every last move in their life they have to sign in the book that nobody ever looks at again. From what they say it is far more restrictive in Russia but the policing efficiency is so horrible people figure out how to get around the system from changing their birth date to you name it. They do it with great humor. Awesome people.

Anti Federalist
03-20-2014, 05:17 PM
They are actually just people that try to live their lives the best they can and have a great outlook on life. They generally just say the whole system is corrupt and figure out how to get around the inefficient system. The stories about the "book" are hilarious. From birth to every last move in their life they have to sign in the book that nobody ever looks at again. From what they say it is far more restrictive in Russia but the policing efficiency is so horrible people figure out how to get around the system from changing their birth date to you name it. They do it with great humor. Awesome people.

My concern is the Amerikan police state will be much more efficient.

heavenlyboy34
03-20-2014, 05:25 PM
They are actually just people that try to live their lives the best they can and have a great outlook on life. They generally just say the whole system is corrupt and figure out how to get around the inefficient system. The stories about the "book" are hilarious. From birth to every last move in their life they have to sign in the book that nobody ever looks at again. From what they say it is far more restrictive in Russia but the policing efficiency is so horrible people figure out how to get around the system from changing their birth date to you name it. They do it with great humor. Awesome people.
:D Russian literature tends to have great fun at the expense of the regime. :) Hillarious.

green73
03-20-2014, 05:26 PM
Who wants to bet? Klamath doesn't have a passport.

AngryCanadian
03-20-2014, 05:28 PM
This CNN piece is from March 7, when tensions were very high because of a US orchestrated coup in Kyiv where mobs of extremely violent maniacs ascended to power. There is no indication that whoever did it were anything other than anti Maidan Russian Ukrainians, over reacting to the shit that went down up north. Of course the NWO war pimps at CNN would report this, WITH SPIN, and never report the other side of the story (US backed neo nazi coup). I cannot believe you buy this bullshit, klamuth. Worse yet, you title this "Putin fascism"? WTF does Putin have to do with it? NOTHING.

ETA: Putin is not a fascist nor a communist.

Well said.

klamath
03-20-2014, 05:29 PM
My concern is the Amerikan police state will be much more efficient.Unfortunately it is and that came through loud and clear talking to them.

Mini-Me
03-20-2014, 05:32 PM
My concern is the Amerikan police state will be much more efficient.

Is the issue really efficiency? My assumption has always been that the government just throws an assload of resources at the problem like usual, and allows no accountability like usual.

klamath
03-20-2014, 05:37 PM
This CNN piece is from March 7, when tensions were very high because of a US orchestrated coup in Kyiv where mobs of extremely violent maniacs ascended to power. There is no indication that whoever did it were anything other than anti Maidan Russian Ukrainians, over reacting to the shit that went down up north. Of course the NWO war pimps at CNN would report this, WITH SPIN, and never report the other side of the story (US backed neo nazi coup). I cannot believe you buy this bullshit, klamuth. Worse yet, you title this "Putin fascism"? WTF does Putin have to do with it? NOTHING.

ETA: Putin is not a fascist nor a communist.He is a nationalist. I see you haven't comment to the Moscow times news stories from crimea. Like I said "PRO PUTIN" not anti intervention.

Todd
03-20-2014, 05:41 PM
Klamath..... Apparently Facism is everywhere in that region.
Look at the party currently in charge and at large in Ukraine.


https://www.google.com/#q=svoboda+party

silverhandorder
03-20-2014, 05:53 PM
Klamath trust me Crimea is a lost cause. There is more opposition in US to government here then there is to Russian takeover in Crimea.

edit: I am from there and the place is 100% Russian. You not going to find oppression from Crimea.

klamath
03-20-2014, 05:56 PM
Klamath..... Apparently Facism is everywhere in that region.
Look at the party currently in charge and at large in Ukraine.


https://www.google.com/#q=svoboda+partyTrue, however I am already quite aware of the threads on Ukrainian fascism and wonders of Putin. Figured we needed some balance. Can't have an echo chamber on Ukrainian fascism and the wonders of Putin.

klamath
03-20-2014, 06:00 PM
Klamath trust me Crimea is a lost cause. There is more opposition in US to government here then there is to Russian takeover in Crimea.

edit: I am from there and the place is 100% Russian. You not going to find oppression from Crimea.Obviously NOT 100%. I am sure those tartars that are getting thrown from their homes are loving it.
But you are right it is part of Russia now and nobody is going to war over it however Putin actions were wrong.

silverhandorder
03-20-2014, 06:08 PM
Obviously NOT 100%. I am sure those tartar that are getting thrown homes are loving it.

I exaggerated. But when 76% of all population votes as a block that shows unity that is even higher then US. All centers of power (economy, politics and society) is with those 76%. The remaining non voters and either kids who are not eligible or tatars who boycotted the vote. Honestly reprisals and oppression would be the same here to anyone who would oppose such a voting block. I am not saying it is just. What I am saying is that you have a double standard. Everyone here is comparing to what we have at home. And in that context yes Crimea is 100% Russian.

klamath
03-20-2014, 06:31 PM
I exaggerated. But when 76% of all population votes as a block that shows unity that is even higher then US. All centers of power (economy, politics and society) is with those 76%. The remaining non voters and either kids who are not eligible or tatars who boycotted the vote. Honestly reprisals and oppression would be the same here to anyone who would oppose such a voting block. I am not saying it is just. What I am saying is that you have a double standard. Everyone here is comparing to what we have at home. And in that context yes Crimea is 100% Russian. And that is why Putin was wrong. They could have voted without the Russian troops and then if the rest of Ukraine tried to hold them by force Russia would of had some justification. The Ukrainian troop never came out and started patrolling the streets. People that did protest for Ukraine actually were beaten up and driven off. There was no justifiable threat to the Crimean Russian majority for the Russian troops to have gone in there before the election. It was pure intimidation.

susano
03-20-2014, 06:34 PM
He is a nationalist. I see you haven't comment to the Moscow times news stories from crimea. Like I said "PRO PUTIN" not anti intervention.

So, you're defining any nationalist as a fascist? There's a lot more to fascism than nationalism. Do you have this issue with nationalism because of some political ideology like Marxism? Do you oppose people wanting to preserve their cultures, traditions, races, etc?

I don't know what Moscow Times story you're talking about. Your link was from CNN.

silverhandorder
03-20-2014, 06:40 PM
And that is why Putin was wrong. They could have voted without the Russian troops and then if the rest of Ukraine tried to hold them by force Russia would of had some justification. The Ukrainian troop never came out and started patrolling the streets. People that did protest for Ukraine actually were beaten up and driven off. There was no justifiable threat to the Crimean Russian majority for the Russian troops to have gone in there before the election. It was pure intimidation.

To be honest obviously Russians and Americans talk out of their ass when they do something. I can only analyze this impartially as Russian having no choice but to immediately secure their national interests. If Crimea was 99% Ukrainian anti Russian Putin still would have went in and made up an excuse.

However intimidation was not directed at some 24% possible percent of opposition. Intimidation was directed at Ukraine and Maidan.

klamath
03-20-2014, 06:40 PM
So, you're defining any nationalist as a fascist? There's a lot more to fascism than nationalism. Do you have this issue with nationalism because of some political ideology like Marxism? Do you oppose people wanting to preserve their cultures, traditions, races, etc?

I don't know what Moscow Times story you're talking about. Your link was from CNN.Being brutal in the name of nationalism is fascism. There are three threads in general politics from Moscow times.

klamath
03-20-2014, 06:59 PM
To be honest obviously Russians and Americans talk out of their ass when they do something. I can only analyze this impartially as Russian having no choice but to immediately secure their national interests. If Crimea was 99% Ukrainian anti Russian Putin still would have went in and made up an excuse.

However intimidation was not directed at some 24% possible percent of opposition. Intimidation was directed at Ukraine and Maidan. Answer me honestly. Do you think the same people praising Putin would praise any movement onto land not currently called US soil as our right to protect our interests by US troop even if the locals were waving and happy?

silverhandorder
03-20-2014, 07:04 PM
Answer me honestly. Do you think the same people praising Putin would praise any movement onto land not currently called US soil as our right to protect our interests by US troop even if the locals were waving and happy?

No they would not. They would oppose it and say this is all more of a reason to go home.

I get that this is what we should be saying about Russia too.

However in world chess board we tend to make moves where we move in on populations that oppose us and commit a lot of resource doing this.

susano
03-20-2014, 07:11 PM
There is heavy bias in Russian expat families against Russian(former soviet era governments) government. My family also has rose colored goggles for what is going on here and yet follow Russian news and opposition media and hate everything about Russian government. IF they kept the same standard for our government they would all be Ron Paul activists.





I hang at a general discussion forum called Lunatic Outpost where we've had several Ukraine threads, with the main one being about 500 pages. Posters from all over the world, some who hate Russia and Russians, some who hate Putin, some who hate the Anglo-Zionist cabal that runs the west. Other than the Hasbara shills, I've found those who hate Russia and Putin to be conflating him with the Soviet Union and communism. The thing is, Russia is not the not the USSR, is no longer under the communist stranglehold, no longer suffers from state imposed atheism, and Putin is not Stalin. Some point his KGB background. IIRC, Putin's grandfather was Stalin's cook. To grow up and be in the KGB is no more weird than someone from a US establishment family growing up to be in the CIA or FBI. It says little about the character of someone, only that they were steeped in a certain culture and became members of it's establishment. As I see it, people can be in a job like that and move on and grow. Some, seeing things from the inside, end up being the biggest critics, like Philip Agee or some of the folks who write for Boiling Frogs (Sibel Edmonds' site). Putin is as capable of evolving as anyone else and Russia is going through a profound transformation. I don't see him as a man stuck in the past, cemented to old ideologies. Quite the opposite.

klamath
03-20-2014, 07:16 PM
No they would not. They would oppose it and say this is all more of a reason to go home.

I get that this is what we should be saying about Russia too.

However in world chess board we tend to make moves where we move in on populations that oppose us and commit a lot of resource doing this.Can't disagree with that. some of the countries populations at one time cheered us until they learned what war really is. Nothing changed, just a lot of people died and a lot of wealth destroyed.

susano
03-20-2014, 07:18 PM
Klamath..... Apparently Facism is everywhere in that region.
Look at the party currently in charge and at large in Ukraine.


https://www.google.com/#q=svoboda+party

Did you see them beat up the head of a Kyiv TV station?! The guys who did it are MPs!!! One if on a committee for free speech, lol. They beat him because the station a clip from Putin's Crimea speech.

Video here - http://www.euronews.com/2014/03/19/ukranian-tv-boss-assaulted-and-forced-to-resign-by-far-right-svoboda-mps/

susano
03-20-2014, 07:20 PM
Klamath trust me Crimea is a lost cause. There is more opposition in US to government here then there is to Russian takeover in Crimea.

edit: I am from there and the place is 100% Russian. You not going to find oppression from Crimea.

You are from Crimea?

klamath
03-20-2014, 07:29 PM
Did you see them beat up the head of a Kyiv TV station?! The guys who did it are MPs!!! One if on a committee for free speech, lol. They beat him because the station a clip from Putin's Crimea speech.

Video here - http://www.euronews.com/2014/03/19/ukranian-tv-boss-assaulted-and-forced-to-resign-by-far-right-svoboda-mps/ Yes I did. I specifically started posting some of these threads as balance to show the whole thing is a mess and rightness is pretty far gone. I have seen LOTS of threads and it is wrong and a mess however Putin IS wrong as well. That old lady shoved to the ground for fearing bloodshed while Russian troops looked on is but one example. The Crimean parliament being force to vote at gun point for a Russian sympathized 3% party was wrong. The impeachment of the Russian sympathetic president looks to of been against their constitution. Have you researched the Chechnya war? That was putin's war. There is a lot of wrong going around. The Syrian war IS putin's baby.

susano
03-20-2014, 07:48 PM
And that is why Putin was wrong. They could have voted without the Russian troops and then if the rest of Ukraine tried to hold them by force Russia would of had some justification. The Ukrainian troop never came out and started patrolling the streets. People that did protest for Ukraine actually were beaten up and driven off. There was no justifiable threat to the Crimean Russian majority for the Russian troops to have gone in there before the election. It was pure intimidation.

When Kyiv fell to the coup, some of the fist moves they made were to harass Party of Region members (the party supported by east and south Ukraine), paying them middle of the night "visits", forcing many to resign from the Rada (and they were elected); outlawed Russian as an official language (and then changed it back); set up their own unelected regime. Crimea reacted by immediately requesting Russian protection. The Russian troops were already there because of the Sevastopol base. Russia sent in more because the treaty allowed up to 25,000 troops. Crimea had every right to ask for protection and good reason after watching those club carrying, Molotov cocktail throwing thugs take over the government. It was natural that Russia would respond the way it did due to cultural and historical connections and the fact that they have a base there, where they have been for something like 260 years. No way in hell were they going to allow anything to interfere with that. They were right to be concerned about it, too, because of one the junta guys immediately suggested the treaty for the base be revoked. The only reason Kyiv didn't take control of Crimea is because the locals, with the help of Russian troops, secured it first. Please compare the weeks of unarmed police (and I'm a cop hater, mind you) being set on fire with Molotov cocktails, to the scene in Crimea where nothing like that got underway. Then they voted, fair and square, taking control of their own destiny which was also their right. To call that illegitimate or "illegal", as the Anglo-Zionist cabal has, is absurd. One their was a coup, THERE WAS NO GOVERNMENT. It was lawless except for how people chose to govern themselves, which Crimea did a splendid job of.

klamath
03-20-2014, 08:03 PM
When Kyiv fell to the coup, some of the fist moves they made were to harass Party of Region members (the party supported by east and south Ukraine), paying them middle of the night "visits", forcing many to resign from the Rada (and they were elected); outlawed Russian as an official language (and then changed it back); set up their own unelected regime. Crimea reacted by immediately requesting Russian protection. The Russian troops were already there because of the Sevastopol base. Russia sent in more because the treaty allowed up to 25,000 troops. Crimea had every right to ask for protection and good reason after watching those club carrying, Molotov cocktail throwing thugs take over the government. It was natural that Russia would respond the way it did due to cultural and historical connections and the fact that they have a base there, where they have been for something like 260 years. No way in hell were they going to allow anything to interfere with that. They were right to be concerned about it, too, because of one the junta guys immediately suggested the treaty for the base be revoked. The only reason Kyiv didn't take control of Crimea is because the locals, with the help of Russian troops, secured it first. Please compare the weeks of unarmed police (and I'm a cop hater, mind you) being set on fire with Molotov cocktails, to the scene in Crimea where nothing like that got underway. Then they voted, fair and square, taking control of their own destiny which was also their right. To call that illegitimate or "illegal", as the Anglo-Zionist cabal has, is absurd. One their was a coup, THERE WAS NO GOVERNMENT. It was lawless except for how people chose to govern themselves, which Crimea did a splendid job of. Oh I get it. A anti-Semite Russian nationalist hating on Ukrainian Nazis.
I am not even playing in this game. Just proves my point there are strong Putin partisans on here despite people popping in saying NOBODY here is supporting Putin.

susano
03-20-2014, 08:06 PM
Being brutal in the name of nationalism is fascism. There are three threads in general politics from Moscow times.

Other than a few fights that broke out (inevitable, anywhere), there was no brutality in Crimea. OTOH, there was appalling brutality on Maidan. At the very first, though I knew the US and EU were orchestrating things, I felt for the people on Maidan. I hate my own government so I could relate. Especially, early, when the fights with police took place, I was with the demonstartors. Then it got ugly with clubs and Molotov cocktails and guns and it was obvious it was a coup coming down. You will remember, I hope, that a truce was called and the police were withdrawn. Rioters were supposed to leave public buildings and vacate Maidan and amnesty was agreed to. EuroMaidan broke that agreement. Yanukovych offered the PM position to Yatsenyuk and that was rejected. A bit later, another agreement, on February 21, was signed, with Germany, Poland and another country taking part. Again, everyone was supposed to withdraw from Maidan, and early elections were scheduled. What did Euromaidan do? Immediately broke the agreement! It was then that they said Yanukovych had to leave by the next morning. They never wanted elections, they wanted a coup. Everything they did was with a coup planned and all agreements to end the violence and hold elections were insincere. It was in that insane atmosphere that Crimea acted to protect it's own interests, which were not in sync with Kyiv.

TER
03-20-2014, 08:09 PM
I wish our President here had 1/100th the integrity, courage, sincerety, and love for God, country and countrymen as the Russian President does.

susano
03-20-2014, 08:14 PM
Being brutal in the name of nationalism is fascism. There are three threads in general politics from Moscow times.


BTW, that is not the definition of fascism. Brutality occurs in fascist, communist and "democratic" societies. Fascism is a political doctrine. Brutality is is brutality and goes hand in hand with government run amok. Would you like brutality in the name of internationalism any better? Maybe Bolshevik style? You didn't answer my question about Marxism, either. Do you have a political ideology that opposes nationalism?

ETA: THE DOCTRINE OF FASCISM

BENITO MUSSOLINI (1932)

(ONLY COMPLETE OFFICIAL TEXT ON THE INTERNET)


(This article, co-written by Giovanni Gentile, is considered to be the most complete articulation of Mussolini's political views. This is the only complete official translation we know of on the web, copied directly from an official Fascist government publication of 1935, Fascism Doctrine and Institutions, by Benito Mussolini, Ardita Publishers, Rome, pages 7-42. This translation includes all the footnotes from the original.)

http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/reading/germany/mussolini.htm

That may be helpful when using terms like fascism. Like "Nazi", the term is thrown around a lot, but not entirely accurate. I'm guilty of it, too. It's an interesting read.

susano
03-20-2014, 08:39 PM
Answer me honestly. Do you think the same people praising Putin would praise any movement onto land not currently called US soil as our right to protect our interests by US troop even if the locals were waving and happy?


There's not really a comparable situation with the US but lets say FDR gave Florida to Georgia and later the USA broke up with Georgia being a separate country, containing Florida, and the former US survived as a new entity. Then Georgia has a foreign engineered coup and Georgians generally hate Floridians and Floridians ask the new incarnation of the US for protection and re-unification and a lot of people in the new US have relatives in Florida and the new US has a major submarine base in Miami and the Floridians are waving new US flags all over the place. Yes, under those circumstances, I believe people in the US would support Florida. And, that's even a bad comparison because one thing that Russia has the US has never had is a cohesive blood bond between it's people. We don't have that kind of connection in the US. If the new US was nearly all one people, one race, one language (not 100% but nearly), lets say Englishmen, and if Georgia was made up of, say, Irishmen, and Florida was mostly English, that would be a better analogy.

susano
03-20-2014, 09:00 PM
Yes I did. I specifically started posting some of these threads as balance to show the whole thing is a mess and rightness is pretty far gone. I have seen LOTS of threads and it is wrong and a mess however Putin IS wrong as well. That old lady shoved to the ground for fearing bloodshed while Russian troops looked on is but one example. The Crimean parliament being force to vote at gun point for a Russian sympathized 3% party was wrong. The impeachment of the Russian sympathetic president looks to of been against their constitution. Have you researched the Chechnya war? That was putin's war. There is a lot of wrong going around. The Syrian war IS putin's baby.

No, I have not researched Chechnya. Not for lack of interest but lack of time. IMO, Chechnya should go it's own way, choose it's own destiny, as Crimea has. I'm a huge fan of secession.

No, Syria is not Putin's war. That's a subject that I'm quite well informed on. As in many cases, there was a local non violent opposition to an oppressive government. There was (is) also an expat gang of elites, working with the US State Dept and NGOs who hijacked the local events and turned them violent. Now the country is overrun with insane jihadists, backed by the west and the Gulf Sunni monarchies, as well as support from Jordan, Turkey and Israel. LONG AGO, the neocons said Syria had to be taken down in order to get at Iran. The events in Syria had nothing to do with Putin but were engineered Washington, London, Paris and the Gulf. If Obama, Kerry, McCain had had their way, US forces would be fighting in Syria right now and it could easily explode into WWIII. It was Russia that stopped that. The gas attacks were a false flag to blame Assad and the US and Europe tried their damnedest to make that dog hunt and failed because they were outsmatred and exposed as the liars they are, thank God. Now, because of outside actors interfering in genuine local opposition to Assad, Assad cannot go because he's the only thing standing between Syria and a takeover by the likes of al Nusra and ISIL. Until he drives them out, he has to stay to save the what's left of the country from Islamic maniacs.

Natural Citizen
03-20-2014, 09:08 PM
I wish our President here had 1/100th the integrity, courage, sincerety, and love for God, country and countrymen as the Russian President does.

I was wondering if you were going to fix that. I kew what you meant though. It's worth a rep because I strongly agree but, alas, I must spread some around first.

TER, I had mentioned some time ago that there isn't much doubt about which one of the two leaders actually and truly loves their country.

susano
03-20-2014, 09:13 PM
Oh I get it. A anti-Semite Russian nationalist hating on Ukrainian Nazis.
I am not even playing in this game. Just proves my point there are strong Putin partisans on here despite people popping in saying NOBODY here is supporting Putin.


LOL. Nope. I'm an American who loves the Founders and I'm of Irish and Swedish descent. "Anti semite"? I certainly have no use for the Synagogue of Satan and all of the misery they spread everywhere they get control.


Anti Semites – (noun) people who are hated by a certain category of Jews because they see that organized Jewish Supremacy is intricately linked to the Banker’s Satanic Empire.

- random poster on some blog