Tax-Hating States Totally Fine With Taxing The Poor

[aGameOfThrones]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1685278/original.jpg


As everyone knows, Southern politicians despise taxes more than just about anything -- except perhaps cornbread with sugar, or iced tea without.

This established rule of the universe makes a new report by the Tax Foundation especially curious, at least at first look. The group, which typically takes an anti-tax stance, combined each state's sales tax rate with the average local sales tax rate, as of Jan. 1.

The group found that the five states with the highest average combined state-local tax rates are mostly Southern-fried: Tennessee (9.45 percent), Arkansas (9.19 percent), Louisiana (8.89 percent), Washington (8.88 percent), and Oklahoma (8.72 percent).

The combined sales tax rate is also high in New York (8.47 percent) and California (8.40).

Four states, Oregon, Montana, New Hampshire and Delaware, collect no sales taxes at all.

Not mentioned in the report are some of the factors that play into high sales tax rates. In the South, especially, property taxes are very low, and voters have historically rejected attempts to raise them. The region also has a history of handing out huge tax breaks to large manufactures in order to persuade them to move there.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/18/sales-taxes-highest-in-st_n_4988216.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

[angelatc]

Wow - a HuffPo piece berating states that have low tax rates posted on RPF with a headline crying about the poor?

[CCTelander]

"Tax-Hating States"? Since when does any state hate taxes? New one to me.

[erowe1]

As everyone knows, Southern politicians despise taxes more than just about anything
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/18/sales-taxes-highest-in-st_n_4988216.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

What a bizarre and ridiculous claim.

[Anti Federalist]

What a bizarre and ridiculous claim.

My first thought as well.

"Lefty" types always point to southern states as being some sort of anti-government bastions of freedom.

Many are some of the very worst police/surveillance/taxation/regulation states out there.

[CCTelander]

My first thought as well.

"Lefty" types always point to southern states as being some sort of anti-government bastions of freedom.

Many are some of the very worst police/surveillance/taxation/regulation states out there.


Truer words were never spoken, er typed. They're usually full to the brim with "law and order" conservatives, who have always been among the very worst authoritarians around. Copsuckers all.

[Acala]

Among taxes, I prefer sales tax because it is easier to avoid. (Note I said avoid and not evade.) You avoid it by not buying so much crap. Property tax and income tax are much harder to avoid. It is much easier to live off the grid within a state funded by sales tax.

[Anti Federalist]

Truer words were never spoken, er typed. They're usually full to the brim with "law and order" conservatives, who have always been among the very worst authoritarians around. Copsuckers all.

Bingo, exactly.

[Schifference]

I don't know how accurate that chart is. When I lived in Colorado the sales tax rate varied by city. Denver had the top rate but if you did your shopping in unincorporated Jefferson county the rate was only 3.8%. Maybe things have changed since I moved.

[cocrehamster]

I don't know how accurate that chart is. When I lived in Colorado the sales tax rate varied by city. Denver had the top rate but if you did your shopping in unincorporated Jefferson county the rate was only 3.8%. Maybe things have changed since I moved.

"Combined state and average local rate"

[Tywysog Cymru]

Republicans say that they'll cut taxes, but then realize they still need to pay for the spending, so they just make different taxes.


My first thought as well.

"Lefty" types always point to southern states as being some sort of anti-government bastions of freedom.

Many are some of the very worst police/surveillance/taxation/regulation states out there.

Yeah, as much as a like many parts of the South, the people there are generally ultra-patriotic and hawkish.

[Keith and stuff]

What a bizarre and ridiculous claim.

Typical statist comment. Completely clueless folks :(

Anyway, since this thread is about sales tax, I'll bring up my favorite thing about living in a sales tax free state. It's the truth in advertising at the dollar store ;)
https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/1555407_678386262204623_436313188_n.jpg

[Keith and stuff]

Among taxes, I prefer sales tax because it is easier to avoid. (Note I said avoid and not evade.) You avoid it by not buying so much crap. Property tax and income tax are much harder to avoid. It is much easier to live off the grid within a state funded by sales tax.
They are all easy or at least possible to avoid, depending on what you want to do and how you want to live ;)

Buy less stuff you say. I could counter with work less (or work for yourself or get paid via bitcoin) or own less stuff.

[Acala]

They are all easy or at least possible to avoid, depending on what you want to do and how you want to live ;)

Buy less stuff you say. I could counter with work less (or work for yourself or get paid via bitcoin) or own less stuff.

If you are going to EVADE taxes illegally, as you suggest, income tax and sales tax are about the same. You still are not going to avoid property tax unless you squat on someone else's land.

For a person who wants to live within the law in a home they own on land they own and do some of the homestead gig producing your own food, property tax is by far the worst. You cannot avoid it. If you are fully self-sufficient, income tax and sales tax are about equally evil. If, like most people, you need some supplemental income, income tax becomes more of a burden than sales tax.

I also have a philosophical problem with property tax because it means that you never really own your property. You just rent it. With sales tax and income tax once the transaction is complete you own the goods or cash outright. With property tax it never ends.

[Keith and stuff]

If you are going to EVADE taxes illegally, as you suggest, income tax and sales tax are about the same. You still are not going to avoid property tax unless you squat on someone else's land.

For a person who wants to live within the law in a home they own on land they own and do some of the homestead gig producing your own food, property tax is by far the worst. You cannot avoid it. If you are fully self-sufficient, income tax and sales tax are about equally evil. If, like most people, you need some supplemental income, income tax becomes more of a burden than sales tax.

I spoke nothing of evading income taxes :p There isn't a personal income tax where I live. There are business taxes but most of them are easy to avoid if your business is under 3 people. There are federal taxes but I was thinking of most state stuff, like what's featured on the map. As for sales taxes, those are easy to avoid, like you suggested. For example, only eat at restaurants that don't change them. Or shop at tax free liquor and smoke shops. Have your friend give you beer he makes.

With property taxes, you can do things such as not own your own place. Or you can rent a room from someone. Or do yard work in exchange for living in an RV or mobile home on a friend's property. Or get free rent as a property manager. Or you can be a home sitter. You live in a van.

I thought we were both mostly speaking of reducing/avoid most of the taxes, though, not all of them. With property taxes, make sure the nice part of your house is as small and invaluable as possible. Feel free to have a basement and attic. As long as they aren't finished, they don't add a lot of value to be taxed. Don't have amazing views of the ocean or a beach. Have an outbuilding or two, just have them of low quality without central air or heat, or a bathroom. Have 100 acres of land if you want. People are allowed to pay almost no taxes on land where I live. Of course, property taxes also depend where you live. Some places have really high average amounts, like Long Island. Some places have no property taxes, like much of the Alaskan Bush and 20 communities in NH.

Some states have a yearly property tax on boats, cars, RVs and so on. To avoid those you might try not living in those states, moving the vehicles around or have them owned by charities, like a Church you volunteer with... :toady:

[enoch150]

Among taxes, I prefer sales tax because it is easier to avoid. (Note I said avoid and not evade.) You avoid it by not buying so much crap.

That's like saying you could pay less income tax by making less money, or paying less property tax by owning less property.

If you can't buy anything with your money, you just worked for free.

[enoch150]

http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/UserFiles/Image/maps/property_tax.png

[Keith and stuff]

http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/UserFiles/Image/maps/property_tax.png

According to HuffPo logic, this is proof that blue counties want all poor people to be homeless. Makes as much sense as the red states wanting the poor to starve...

[Lindsey]

http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/UserFiles/Image/maps/property_tax.png

For the most part, this chart is only showing where property is expensive. It's not based on tax rates, but rather on how much was paid.

[Keith and stuff]

For the most part, this chart is only showing where property is expensive. It's not based on tax rates, but rather on how much was paid.
I like the way it is titled better and the way you put it. In some of the darker areas, property is cheap.

I agree that it isn't based on rates. Rates is a poor way to compare, IMO. This way is much better. It's what people pay. Though, in Northern New England, a lot of those taxes are actually paid by people in other areas as ME, VT and NH are the 3 states with the most 2nd homes.

[enoch150]

http://i.imgur.com/CMWLidS.png

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I also have a philosophical problem with property tax because it means that you never really own your property. You just rent it. With sales tax and income tax once the transaction is complete you own the goods or cash outright. With property tax it never ends.
Property tax is extortion. You pay to avoid violence. And wtf, the above map needs to include way above 2,000. Some people pay over TEN THOUSAND a year for a small piece property in New Jersey.

[Tod]

What all ways have states found to extort the population generate revenue?

Income tax
Real estate property tax
Property tax on stuff other than land/buildings?
Sales tax (do some tax "food"? My state does not, although they will tax if served in a restaurant)
Usage fees

There must be more; remember, these guys are professionals!

Unless all of the ways and rates are considered, the picture of tax in a state is incomplete. Someone could come up with a calculator that takes into account levels of consumption, ownership of stuff, income, and all the ways to be taxed to generate a personalized map.

[kcchiefs6465]

What all ways have states found to extort the population generate revenue?

Income tax
Real estate property tax
Property tax on stuff other than land/buildings?
Sales tax (do some tax "food"? My state does not, although they will tax if served in a restaurant)
Usage fees

There must be more; remember, these guys are professionals!

Unless all of the ways and rates are considered, the picture of tax in a state is incomplete. Someone could come up with a calculator that takes into account levels of consumption, ownership of stuff, income, and all the ways to be taxed to generate a personalized map.
That would be one very depressing personalized map.

[Acala]

I spoke nothing of evading income taxes :p:
You suggested self-employment and use of bitcoin as ways to avoid income tax. Guess what? Bitcoin transactions are income and self-employment income is every bit as much taxable income as a paycheck. So unless you are talking about lillegally evading taxes by those methods they do not help at all with income tax.

[Keith and stuff]

You suggested self-employment and use of bitcoin as ways to avoid income tax. Guess what? Bitcoin transactions are income and self-employment income is every bit as much taxable income as a paycheck. So unless you are talking about lillegally evading taxes by those methods they do not help at all with income tax.
I don't personally own any bitcoins. I was not giving legal advice. I was just speaking of what I've heard from others. Bitcoin transations may be income, depending. Batter is more likely to be considered income, I'd guess ;) I certainly don't suggest anyone illegal evade taxes. Not at all :toady: Anywho...

[Lucille]

Looking forward to PuffHo's follow-up piece: Progs totally fine (http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-democrats-finally-embrace-money.html) with making the poor even poorer through the most vicious and regressive tax of them all (http://archive.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul334.html).

[Keith and stuff]

Looking forward to PuffHo's follow-up piece: Progs totally fine (http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-democrats-finally-embrace-money.html) with making the poor even poorer through the most vicious and regressive tax of them all (http://archive.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul334.html).

Yup!

Where is the post about the states with flat income taxes, also? Oh, the horror!

[Acala]

I don't personally own any bitcoins. I was not giving legal advice. I was just speaking of what I've heard from others. Bitcoin transations may be income, depending. Batter is more likely to be considered income, I'd guess ;) I certainly don't suggest anyone illegal evade taxes. Not at all :toady: Anywho...

The IRS considers gain made in barter transactions to be taxable income. The same will be true of bitcoin. I don't blame people for trying to evade taxes, but I think that is a different discussion.

[Zippyjuan]

http://i.imgur.com/CMWLidS.png

Completely different picture for most states (especially along the coasts). On the other hand, to the governments, it is about how much money can be raised. If property values are high, they can get the same amount of money from a lower tax rate.

[Zippyjuan]

I spoke nothing of evading income taxes :p There isn't a personal income tax where I live. There are business taxes but most of them are easy to avoid if your business is under 3 people. There are federal taxes but I was thinking of most state stuff, like what's featured on the map. As for sales taxes, those are easy to avoid, like you suggested. For example, only eat at restaurants that don't change them. Or shop at tax free liquor and smoke shops. Have your friend give you beer he makes.

With property taxes, you can do things such as not own your own place. Or you can rent a room from someone. Or do yard work in exchange for living in an RV or mobile home on a friend's property. Or get free rent as a property manager. Or you can be a home sitter. You live in a van.

I thought we were both mostly speaking of reducing/avoid most of the taxes, though, not all of them. With property taxes, make sure the nice part of your house is as small and invaluable as possible. Feel free to have a basement and attic. As long as they aren't finished, they don't add a lot of value to be taxed. Don't have amazing views of the ocean or a beach. Have an outbuilding or two, just have them of low quality without central air or heat, or a bathroom. Have 100 acres of land if you want. People are allowed to pay almost no taxes on land where I live. Of course, property taxes also depend where you live. Some places have really high average amounts, like Long Island. Some places have no property taxes, like much of the Alaskan Bush and 20 communities in NH.

Some states have a yearly property tax on boats, cars, RVs and so on. To avoid those you might try not living in those states, moving the vehicles around or have them owned by charities, like a Church you volunteer with... :toady:

No sales tax but business taxes? The taxes are included (hidden) in the price you pay for the goods.

Renting to avoid property taxes? Sorry- you are stilll paying them- they are included in the rent you are charged. The landlord is passing them along (if he can't rent at a high enough price to pay his costs, he will sell the property and not rent it out). I happen to like my home near the beach (paid for) and would rather not be saving the taxes by living in a van (even living in California, mine run a bit over $100 a month- not a lot of savings by being all cramped in a dirty car and showering at a gas station). Fine when you are in college.

No personal income tax? They are taxing something else to get the money. You can't avoid taxes.