PDA

View Full Version : Paul Craig Roberts Unloads on Rand Paul




Origanalist
03-17-2014, 11:01 AM
Washington Has Set The World On A Path To War — Paul Craig Roberts
March 16, 2014 | Categories: Articles & Columns | Tags: Crimea, John McCain, Rand Paul, | Print This Article Print This Article
Washington Has Set The World On A Path To War

Paul Craig Roberts

Why is Washington so opposed to Crimean self-determination? The answer is that one of the main purposes of Washington’s coup in Kiev was to have the new puppet government evict Russia from its Black Sea naval base in Crimea. Washington cannot use the government Washington has installed in Ukraine for that purpose if Crimea is no longer part of Ukraine.

What Washington has made completely obvious is that “self-determination” is a weapon used by Washington in behalf of its agenda. If self-determination advances Washington’s agenda, Washington is for it. If self-determination does not advance Washington’s agenda, Washington is against it.

The Washington-initiated UN Security Council resolution, vetoed by Russia, falsely declares that the referendum in Crimea, a referendum demanded by the people, “can have no validity, and cannot form the basis for any alteration of the status of Crimea; and calls upon all States, international organizations and specialized agencies not to recognize any alteration of the status of Crimea on the basis of this referendum and to refrain from any action or dealing that might be interpreted as recognizing any such altered status.”

Washington could not make it any clearer that Washington totally opposes self-determination by Crimeans.

Washington claims, falsely, that the referendum cannot be valid unless the entire population of Ukraine votes and agrees with the decision by Crimeans. Note that when Washington stole Kosovo from Serbia, Washington did not let Serbians vote.

But overlook Washington’s rank hypocrisy and self-serving double-standards. Let’s apply Washington’s argument that in order to be valid any change in Crimea’s status requires a vote on the part of the population of the country that it departs. If this is the case, then Crimea has never been a part of Ukraine.

Under Washington’ s interpretation of international law, Ukraine is still a part of Russia. When Khrushchev transferred Crimea (but not Sevastopol, the Black Sea base) to Ukraine, Russians did not get to vote. Therefore, according to Washington’s own logic it is invalid to recognize Crimea as part of Ukraine. That also goes for other parts of Russia that Lenin transferred to Ukraine. Under the logic of Washington’s UN resolution, large parts of Ukraine are not legitimately part of Ukraine. They have remained parts of Russia, because Russians were not allowed to vote on their transfer to Ukraine. Thus, there is no issue about “Russia annexing Crimea,” because, according to Washington’s logic, Crimea is still a part of Russia.

Do you need any more proof that the Ukrainian crisis is made up out of thin air by schemers in Washington who created the entire crisis for one purpose–to weaken Russia militarily?

No one was surprised that the New York Times published on March 14 the warmongering rant, written by neoconservatives for John McCain, which described Washington’s aggression in Ukraine as Russia’s aggression. The US government overthrows an elected democratic Ukrainian government and then accuses Russia of “invading and annexing Crimea” in order to divert attention from Washington’s overthrow of Ukrainian democracy. There is no elected government in Kiev. The stooges acting as a government in Kiev were put in office by Washington. Who else choose them?

What surprised some was Rand Paul joining the hysteria. Rand Paul wrote his propagandistic rant against Russia for Time. Rand Paul claims, falsely, that Putin has invaded Crimea and that it is an affront to “the international community.”

Continues at....http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/03/16/washington-set-world-path-war-paul-craig-roberts/

vita3
03-17-2014, 12:11 PM
Thanks for article.

klamath
03-17-2014, 12:26 PM
pcr is a fucking retard.

ClydeCoulter
03-17-2014, 12:49 PM
pcr is a fucking retard.

Because ... ?

Ender
03-17-2014, 12:56 PM
pcr is a fucking retard.

Uhhhhh.....truth hurts?

Origanalist
03-17-2014, 01:05 PM
pcr is a fucking retard.

Well, never mind then.

Todd
03-17-2014, 01:09 PM
pcr is a fucking retard.

lol...No he's not.

You don't have to agree on what he says about Rand, but he's been right about a whole lot for a long time.

Warrior_of_Freedom
03-17-2014, 01:15 PM
Why are article titles so sexual?
If it's not someone being slammed behind their back, they're being unloaded on.

Natural Citizen
03-17-2014, 01:15 PM
Well, never mind then.


Eventually...in fact, sooner than later, the facts relative to the true depth of this thing are going to come out. They already are. And we're going to see quite a few red faces in the political world as well as the media monopoly. It's political suicide for Paul to continue to run with the ruse. People aren't dumbed down as much as the elected ones and talking heads in the corporate media would like to think. Not anymore.

moostraks
03-17-2014, 01:20 PM
A certain poster must not have seen this yet. Am waiting for the apologists to unload on anyone who finds fault with the necessity of playing the game to get elected, even if it brings us mo' war.

vita3
03-17-2014, 01:27 PM
Rand needs to be asked about State Dept Victoria Nuland's Neo-Con puppet-stringing & the $5 Billion she says we have spent inside Ukraine.

I do like his call in Time Magazine for selling Europe Gas & Oil.

http://time.com/#17648/sen-rand-paul-u-s-must-take-strong-action-against-putins-aggression/

klamath
03-17-2014, 01:43 PM
This should be the Russian neocons wet dream. Get a draft for war and the US government can send them free of charge to the front, where it will be only a short distance to defect to the Russian lines.

Warrior_of_Freedom
03-17-2014, 01:53 PM
This should be the Russian neocons wet dream. Get a draft for war and the US government can send them free of charge to the front, where it will be only a short distance to defect to the Russian lines.

better start learning russian

здравствуйте means hello

Tod
03-17-2014, 03:24 PM
Hopefully Rand said what he said to get elected and doesn't actually believe what he wrote.

Good on PCR.

Matt Collins
03-17-2014, 03:49 PM
Who is this guy, and why does anyone care what he says?

ZENemy
03-17-2014, 04:19 PM
Hopefully Rand said what he said to get elected and doesn't actually believe what he wrote.

Good on PCR.

So you hope he lied?

donnay
03-17-2014, 04:26 PM
Who is this guy, and why does anyone care what he says?

Paul Craig Roberts was in the Reagan Administration. You should be old enough to remember that.

NIU Students for Liberty
03-17-2014, 04:33 PM
Who is this guy, and why does anyone care what he says?

Now you know how we feel when you lecture.

phill4paul
03-17-2014, 04:42 PM
Now you know how we feel when you lecture.

Hoo-boy. You may have won today's internetz but the night is still young.

Ender
03-17-2014, 04:50 PM
Who is this guy, and why does anyone care what he says?

"Paul Craig Roberts, a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and former associate editor of the Wall Street Journal, has been reporting shocking cases of prosecutorial abuse for two decades. A new edition of his book, The Tyranny of Good Intentions, co-authored with Lawrence Stratton, a documented account of how americans lost the protection of law, has been released by Random House."

Natural Citizen
03-17-2014, 05:26 PM
Paul Craig Roberts was in the Reagan Administration. You should be old enough to remember that.

Meh. I'm pretty sure that Matt knows who he is. Ad-hominem used to work back when the people were "dumb" though. I've shared a couple of very good papers from Roberts in the last couple of days myself so was glad to see another shared here. The larger issues regarding this thing are going to unravel rather quickly and, as I mentioned elsewhere, there will absolutely be some red faces left. No doubt about it.

Because we're going to be able to see exactly who is speaking for whom. And again, this is during a time when the TPP is being avoided in discussion. And for good reason if you're the media or a politician towing the narrative.

Wolfgang Bohringer
03-17-2014, 06:27 PM
I just figured out Rand's plan and its brilliant.

Right from the start with Rand, fans of Ron such as myself have been trying to figure out "Why is Rand tanking like this? Why is he tanking on the most important libertarian issue of all: War and Peace--especially since the War&Peace issue is what made Ron a rock star? Is he part of a CIA conspiracy? Did they hack the Kentucky voting machines to invent Rand to neuter the anti-War libertarian movement sparked by his father?"

As the years have gone by Rand just keeps getting worse and worse on the most important issue of all. He's gone so far into the tank now that he has far surpassed many Republicans in belligerence causing more and more Ron fans to finally repudiate him such as Paul Craig Roberts in this article.

Here's what he's doing--its brilliant: You know how your typical right wing conservative will say something like "I'd like Ron Paul if he didn't have an insane foreign policy"? And then a whole industry got created around the ridiculous idea that if you just water down Ron Paul's foreign policy and keep the rest like that's going to get some right winger to vote for Ron?

Well, Rand is taking the watered-down-Ron idea to the extreme JUST TO POINT OUT HOW ABSURD IT IS. And he's going to keep getting more and more insanely neo-con as the months and years go by. The point is to get each and every one of us who was inspired by his father's principles to reach the point that Roberts finally reached. Rand is trying to teach every American a lesson: Never compromise your principles!

I can see now why he chose this method of making his point. Clearly, they hacked the voting machines to put him in thinking he would be their tool, but he's double crossing them by carrying it out to an absurd level. Before he's through Rand may end up implanting more backbones into modern libertarians than his father converted in the first place.

Austrian Econ Disciple
03-17-2014, 07:25 PM
I just figured out Rand's plan and its brilliant.

Right from the start with Rand, fans of Ron such as myself have been trying to figure out "Why is Rand tanking like this? Why is he tanking on the most important libertarian issue of all: War and Peace--especially since the War&Peace issue is what made Ron a rock star? Is he part of a CIA conspiracy? Did they hack the Kentucky voting machines to invent Rand to neuter the anti-War libertarian movement sparked by his father?"

As the years have gone by Rand just keeps getting worse and worse on the most important issue of all. He's gone so far into the tank now that he has far surpassed many Republicans in belligerence causing more and more Ron fans to finally repudiate him such as Paul Craig Roberts in this article.

Here's what he's doing--its brilliant: You know how your typical right wing conservative will say something like "I'd like Ron Paul if he didn't have an insane foreign policy"? And then a whole industry got created around the ridiculous idea that if you just water down Ron Paul's foreign policy and keep the rest like that's going to get some right winger to vote for Ron?

Well, Rand is taking the watered-down-Ron idea to the extreme JUST TO POINT OUT HOW ABSURD IT IS. And he's going to keep getting more and more insanely neo-con as the months and years go by. The point is to get each and every one of us who was inspired by his father's principles to reach the point that Roberts finally reached. Rand is trying to teach every American a lesson: Never compromise your principles!

I can see now why he chose this method of making his point. Clearly, they hacked the voting machines to put him in thinking he would be their tool, but he's double crossing them by carrying it out to an absurd level. Before he's through Rand may end up implanting more backbones into modern libertarians than his father converted in the first place.

Yes, this is plausible...in a horrible B movie from Dollywood I suppose. When reality stares you in the face and you have to contort a delusion this far you know you're not far from the Obamabots. Is there any scenario where Rands action don't lead you to dismiss them with a manchurian giggle?

phill4paul
03-17-2014, 07:29 PM
Who is this guy, and why does anyone care what he says?

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Natural Citizen
03-17-2014, 08:34 PM
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Hm. I got a free poster out of that link. Thanks, phill4paul.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/assets/FallaciesPosterHigherRes.jpg

Matt Collins
03-17-2014, 09:23 PM
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
Not exactly.... I asked why should anyone care about this guy? I didn't attack him, nor did I say anything about his personal traits.


However, the OP seems to be doing this:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

Matt Collins
03-17-2014, 09:36 PM
I just figured out Rand's plan and its brilliant.

Right from the start with Rand, fans of Ron such as myself have been trying to figure out "Why is Rand tanking like this? Why is he tanking on the most important libertarian issue of all: War and Peace--especially since the War&Peace issue is what made Ron a rock star? Is he part of a CIA conspiracy? Did they hack the Kentucky voting machines to invent Rand to neuter the anti-War libertarian movement sparked by his father?"

As the years have gone by Rand just keeps getting worse and worse on the most important issue of all. He's gone so far into the tank now that he has far surpassed many Republicans in belligerence causing more and more Ron fans to finally repudiate him such as Paul Craig Roberts in this article.

Here's what he's doing--its brilliant: You know how your typical right wing conservative will say something like "I'd like Ron Paul if he didn't have an insane foreign policy"? And then a whole industry got created around the ridiculous idea that if you just water down Ron Paul's foreign policy and keep the rest like that's going to get some right winger to vote for Ron?

Well, Rand is taking the watered-down-Ron idea to the extreme JUST TO POINT OUT HOW ABSURD IT IS. And he's going to keep getting more and more insanely neo-con as the months and years go by. The point is to get each and every one of us who was inspired by his father's principles to reach the point that Roberts finally reached. Rand is trying to teach every American a lesson: Never compromise your principles!

I can see now why he chose this method of making his point. Clearly, they hacked the voting machines to put him in thinking he would be their tool, but he's double crossing them by carrying it out to an absurd level. Before he's through Rand may end up implanting more backbones into modern libertarians than his father converted in the first place.
I'm assuming this is sarcasm? Otherwise it's the most asinine thing I've ever read on here... and that says something.

specsaregood
03-18-2014, 06:05 AM
Since nobody else properly rebutted this morons rant, I shall do so. here is what he said about Rand,


What surprised some was Rand Paul joining the hysteria. Rand Paul wrote his propagandistic rant against Russia for Time.

90% of his "rant" against Russia in Time was actually a "rant" about making it easier for the US to export energy, spend less money and do less overseas. Rand argues against military action in that article, all but 1 suggestion by Rand is actually POSITIVE, promoting economic competition to Russia instead of war. In fact he goes on and on in that article about the US not having money to spend overseas and suggests ways for the US to make money instead.



Rand Paul claims, falsely, that Putin has invaded Crimea and that it is an affront to “the international community.” First of all, the decision of Crimea to leave Ukraine is a decision of the Crimean population and the elected government, not a decision by Russia.

In that article, Rand specifically cites the Budapest Memorandum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances), which like it or not is an international agreement signed by Russia and a number of other countries. PCR could feel free to argue that Russia didn't violate that memorandum, but he doesn't he just goes full retard:



But, for the sake of argument, let’s take Rand Paul’s lie as the truth: Is “Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine a gross violation of that nation’s sovereignty and an affront to the international community” like Washington’s invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, and Washington-sponsored invasions of Libya and Syria, and Washington’s ongoing slaughter of Pakistanis and Yemenis with drones, and Washington’s violation of Iran’s sovereignty with illegal sanctions, and Washington’s violation of Ukrainian sovereignty by overthrowing the elected government and imposing Washington’s stooges?

I guess this guy doesn't know that Rand was at the forefront of trying to stop the invasion of Libya? Even going as far as locking up the Senate to use Obamas words against himself? And we probably would have invaded Syria if we hadn't had Rand up there doing everysingle news outlet in an attempt to sway public opinion against it!? Then he recently argued against more sanctions against Iran? I have no doubt Rand would be against the CIA overthrowing the old Ukranian government.. And yet mr. Roberts wants to use these very things that Rand is against to argue that Rand is wrong? What kind of bullshit is that?



If Putin is behaving as Rand Paul ignorantly asserts, Putin is just following the precedents established by Clinton in Serbia, by Bush in Afghanistan and Iraq, and by Obama in Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, and Ukraine. Washington’s argument is reduced to: “We, the exceptional and indispensable nation can behave this way, but no other country can.”

More bullshit by mr. Roberts blaming Rand and calling him a liar for the actions of others, for activities Rand is on record as being against?



As some Americans have misplaced hopes in Rand Paul, it is just as well that he revealed in Time that he is just another fool prostituting himself for the neoconservative warmongers and the military/security complex. If Rand Paul is the hope for America, then clearly there is no hope.

Yeah, he's a neocon for arguing against war, arguing for easing domestic restrictions, arguing for spending no/less money abroad and arguing for economic competition. Did this guy even read the time article he is ranted about? It seems like 90% of the people smearing Rand for said article didn't even bother to read it.

The fact that PCR ignores the MANY great suggestions put forth by Rand in that time.com piece indicates to me that PCR is part of the problem, he might even feel threatened or have investments contrary to those suggestions. Why else would he be so dishonest? http://time.com/17648/sen-rand-paul-u-s-must-take-strong-action-against-putins-aggression/

libertygrl
03-18-2014, 07:40 AM
I WANT to believe.

However, it does make me wonder if Rand was truly scaring the "powers that be" the way his father did, why does he get so much air time in the media whereas he father was nearly blacklisted to prevent his views from getting out to the masses? Ron Paul never got anywhere in Washington / media because he never played the part of the politician. He had too much integrity. Perhaps Rand saw that and decided to play the game in order to make some headway. But his recent Russia vote does concern me because of it's dangerous implications. Perhaps he wrestled with this concern as well. We can never know for certain.

But it does beg the question - is Rand pulling the wool over our eyes, or is he pulling the wool over their's??? (establishment)

Wolfgang Bohringer
03-18-2014, 08:16 AM
the most asinine thing I've ever read

Ye of little faith! You underestimate Rand and his innovative 21st century political science.

And you're probably just angry because Rand decided to employ deceptive false-flaggy tactics in order to teach you a lesson. But Rand is playing 3-dimensional political chess while the rest of D.C. is playing checkers.

Can you think of a more ingenious way to put an exclamation point on the purpose of his father's political career than this little object lesson in what can happen to you if you don't strictly adhere to principle?

But you'll be thanking him in the end. And you'll sleep much better at night and feel better about yourself. Don't wait until he does the photo op with McCain and Yatz manning Polish anti-aircraft guns a la Jane Fonda. You don't want to be the last "libertarian" to learn Rand's lesson.