How about if people just start running around here, policing the city on their own?

[aGameOfThrones]

Was this ever posted here? I made a search, but was not successful and it's pretty old. BTW, I really dislike this type of people and the fact that their behavior is not uncommon.


Skip to 3:30 for the "good stuff."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODrAQLx4DAQ


A disturbing but telling story is playing out in Pennsylvania. Two men robbed a local store, but were killed by a private citizen who confronted them before they could get away. Now the families of the criminals want to sue the man who stopped a crime, because he killed their loved ones.

It's not fair," said Virginia Medina, mother of 24-year-old William Medina, who police said robbed Krick's Korner store alongside 18-year-old Robert De Carr on Monday.

The two men were shot and killed by a private citizen while leaving the store, and family members want to see charges pressed.

"[William] had no right to lose his life over something that man could have called the police for," said Medina. "He took the law into his own hands and walked away scot-free."

"How about if people just start running around here, policing the city on their own? How much worse is it going to get?" said Peter Ratel, Medina's cousin.

The family members said they are hurt by comments suggesting the alleged robbers were "thugs."

According to Medina, William was "no big hard criminal" and was rather a family-man who loved his young daughter.

Robert De Carr was described similarly by his sister, Taylor De Carr.

"My brother was a good kid," she told 69 News.


While we may feel some empathy for the families of the deceased, the police report on the incident adds some facts to the case. The two masked robbers emerged from the store and were immediately confronted by the hero. He told them to stop and wait for the police to arrive. At this point the masked thugs pulled their weapons to take aim at the innocent man. This is when he opened fire, killing the two criminals. Thanks to security camera footage and witnesses, the man won’t be charged with a crime like these hoodlums’ families want, nor can he be sued. Pennsylvania has something called the Castle Doctrine which prohibits the hero from being sued in civil court as well.

The families of the thugs may be hurting from their loss, but their reaction belies a greater problem in modern American culture. Culturally we have lost the ability to feel shame or understand responsibility. The families blame a passerby who was legally carrying a firearm (proving he has no criminal record) for trying to stop their relatives from committing a violent crime – instead of being angry with their kin for putting on masks, pulling guns, and violently attacking another person.

Moreover, the hero didn’t shoot them as they exited the store. He warned them to stop and wait for police and these thugs chose to instead pull their guns to shoot him. The sister of one of the men said “My brother was a good kid.” No, he wasn’t. He was the type of evil person who could terrify someone else with the idea that they might die, just so he could steal their hard earned money. He was a bad man and as harsh and mean as it sounds, his death means that the community is safer.


Read more at http://eaglerising.com/2835/family-criminals-want-sue-hero-stopped/#8tKYtigKxLpDYXzv.99

[fisharmor]

The one just application of the death penalty.

[WM_in_MO]

Honestly the only application of the "Death Penalty" I can agree with is when an aggressor is killed by someone exercising self-defense.

[pcosmar]

"How about if people just start running around here, policing the city on their own?"

Exactly how it should be.

[Schifference]

Would it have been a viable option for the private citizen to offer a non-lethal option? Maybe something like tell the robbers to hand over anything stolen and not ever do this kind of stupid shit again or stay here and wait for the police to arrive or I shoot your ass right here and now.

[Schifference]

I do not condone robbery but, how would we feel if 2 robbers were running away from a scene after leaving a store without hurting anyone and a Cop unloaded killing the fleeing suspects?

[WM_in_MO]

According to the story they drew on him.

[aGameOfThrones]

I do not condone robbery but, how would we feel if 2 robbers were running away from a scene after leaving a store without hurting anyone and a Cop unloaded killing the fleeing suspects?

excessive force.

[phill4paul]

I do not condone robbery but, how would we feel if 2 robbers were running away from a scene after leaving a store without hurting anyone and a Cop unloaded killing the fleeing suspects?

They weren't running away.


At this point the masked thugs pulled their weapons to take aim at the innocent man. This is when he opened fire, killing the two criminals. Thanks to security camera footage and witnesses, the man won’t be charged with a crime like these hoodlums’ families want, nor can he be sued.

[phill4paul]

Would it have been a viable option for the private citizen to offer a non-lethal option? Maybe something like tell the robbers to hand over anything stolen and not ever do this kind of stupid shit again or stay here and wait for the police to arrive or I shoot your ass right here and now.

And....


The two masked robbers emerged from the store and were immediately confronted by the hero. He told them to stop and wait for the police to arrive.

[tod evans]

Am I understanding this......These idiots believe that their kids should have the "freedom" to rob or assault whomever they choose and only the po-lice have the authority to stop their behavior?

Wake up dumb-ass!

Some punk gets outta line it's the duty of an upstanding man to put him in line...

The punk brought a gun and he got one in response...BFD

[aGameOfThrones]

Am I understanding this......These idiots believe that their kids should have the "freedom" to rob or assault whomever they choose and only the po-lice have the authority to stop their behavior?

Wake up dumb-ass!

Some punk gets outta line it's the duty of an upstanding man to put him in line...

The punk brought a gun and he got one in response...BFD


Yes they do. BTW, they are not the only ones---> http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?434198-Family-Of-Armed-Robber-Upset-At-Bystander-Intervention&highlight=robbing

And there was a story similar to this one where I live with the family members reacting the same way.

[Barrex]

Bizarre world USA.

[phill4paul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI6hRc8JCio

[Schifference]

This guy could have elected to not confront the robbers outside the store. I would think the robbers primary goal when leaving was to get out of that area ASAP. Are we ready to execute armed robbers on the street? This type of street justice would certainly make robbers think twice before attempting robbery. If I would not support a cop shooting these guys why would I support anyone shooting them. If the robbers came out of the store and there were 15 guys with weapons drawn the robbers may have been more likely to surrender. The adrenaline filled robbers exited the store facing only 1 confrontational person. Do you think if this scenario were repeated a number of times the result would be death or injury? I wonder if these tactics should become a protocol or if there might a better way to handle situations like this.

[belian78]

I do not condone robbery but, how would we feel if 2 robbers were running away from a scene after leaving a store without hurting anyone and a Cop unloaded killing the fleeing suspects?
This is a strawman, as it's not even close to what actually happened. What you should have asked was 'what if it were a cop that stopped them outside of the store and they drew their weapons on him/her? Would that have been justified?' Which would be yes, yes it absolutely would be.

[belian78]

This guy could have elected to not confront the robbers outside the store. I would think the robbers primary goal when leaving was to get out of that area ASAP. Are we ready to execute armed robbers on the street? This type of street justice would certainly make robbers think twice before attempting robbery. If I would not support a cop shooting these guys why would I support anyone shooting them. If the robbers came out of the store and there were 15 guys with weapons drawn the robbers may have been more likely to surrender. The adrenaline filled robbers exited the store facing only 1 confrontational person. Do you think if this scenario were repeated a number of times the result would be death or injury? I wonder if these tactics should become a protocol or if there might a better way to handle situations like this.
If I, as a member of my community, cannot stand up and protect that community then that is a community I do not want to live in. Why is it so important to you that 'regular folks' don't stand up and protect their fellow citizens? Just because this person didn't have a little piece of tin on their chest they weren't in the right to stop armed robbers? You need to rethink this.

[Schifference]

If I, as a member of my community, cannot stand up and protect that community then that is a community I do not want to live in. Why is it so important to you that 'regular folks' don't stand up and protect their fellow citizens? Just because this person didn't have a little piece of tin on their chest they weren't in the right to stop armed robbers? You need to rethink this.
I have not stated that regular folks should not stand up and protect their fellow citizens. I am simply asking if there was a way to deal with this situation without costing 2 lives. It matters not who did the shooting. The hero could have become a dead victim. Do you think the robbers could have been apprehended at a later time in a non-lethal manor?

[Barrex]

I have not stated that regular folks should not stand up and protect their fellow citizens. I am simply asking if there was a way to deal with this situation without costing 2 lives. It matters not who did the shooting. The hero could have become a dead victim. Do you think the robbers could have been apprehended at a later time in a non-lethal manor?

No. In that universe any thief, murderer could simply carry a gun around his neck and good guys would have to wait until "later time" to apprehend them in a non-lethal manner... that later time would never come. Thieves choose to draw their guns.

[JK/SEA]

throw the parents in jail for extreme ignorance.

''they were good men''......what?...

yeah,,,dead 'good men' who thought stealing by lethal force to raise their kids is an honorable trait....damn, my head hurts.

[Zippyjuan]

The one just application of the death penalty.

Make people judge, jury and executioner with no right of appeal?

[phill4paul]

Make people judge, jury and executioner with no right of appeal?

The individual that was attempting to detain these robbers did not act as judge, jury nor executioner. He was lawfully detaining them when they drew their guns on him. Had they not, they would have had their day in court. He was acting in self-defense. As is his natural right.

[bunklocoempire]

A mother of the deceased said of the shooter: "he took the law into his own hands and got away scot-free"

so.... her son took the law into his own hands and ended up paying a price.

Tough shit. Sorry you sucked as a parent.:(

My parents advice to me about taking the law into my own hands (theft/mischief): "And if they shot you (private party) I wouldn't blame them" (never speaking of police)

-I've never robbed anyone.

[Wooden Indian]

I'm stunned. Juan seemingly taking sides with the armed thugs. I mean, how dare this citizen actual protect himself against these low-level wanna be gangsters? We need our uniformed police overlords, right?!

Side note: Why is it every time I stumble upon a post by the old Zippster, I want wash my eyes out with bleach?

[fisharmor]

I am simply asking if there was a way to deal with this situation without costing 2 lives.

1) The robbers could have decided to actually be the "good men" that their families think they were, and not rob the place.
2) The robbers could have dropped their weapons and waited for the police.
3) The store clerk could have been packing too, bringing a fourth weapon into the mix, and outgunning the robbers may have made them think about surrendering.

Anything that pins responsibility for this on the shooter is, ultimately, pro-cop.
I don't want a professional enforcement caste. I want each and every citizen to behave exactly as this man did.
The family and the media can huff and puff and moan all they want: in fact, I encourage it. Let everyone know how mean and unfair it was that your armed robber sons got killed. Next time I visit Reading I'll know the place is just a tiny bit safer for it.


Make people judge, jury and executioner with no right of appeal?

What about this case is not cut and dry? It's so cut and dry that there's a freaking industrial meat saw and an automobile paint oven involved here. ETA... It's so cut and dry that even the police, even the prosecuting attorney, those bastions of intellectual and moral void, made the right call!

I mean, this is the one thing I'm gonna get this month that's going to remind me that this entire country isn't totally lost. This is a net positive.
Why try to destroy that?

[DamianTV]

If I, as a member of my community, cannot stand up and protect that community then that is a community I do not want to live in. Why is it so important to you that 'regular folks' don't stand up and protect their fellow citizens? Just because this person didn't have a little piece of tin on their chest they weren't in the right to stop armed robbers? You need to rethink this.


I have not stated that regular folks should not stand up and protect their fellow citizens. I am simply asking if there was a way to deal with this situation without costing 2 lives. It matters not who did the shooting. The hero could have become a dead victim. Do you think the robbers could have been apprehended at a later time in a non-lethal manor?

Maybe the solution is to leave the choice up to the people that are to be protected by said enforcers?

When people take the law into their own hands, we call them Vigilantes. Our standard solution is to hire Cops. What makes the most sense to me is to elect a Sheriff. The election option also leaves another possible outcome of having no Law enforcement what so ever. This stems from the idea that a Sheriff acting as the enforcer of Govt is made with the concent of the Governed, which is the major difference between Vigilantes and Cops, and Sheriffs. Neither Vigilantes or Cops operate with the concent of the Governed and can not be removed by voting and seem to exist only for Self Jusification. Elected Sheriffs do operate with that concent.

I must admit that this is purely speculation and conjecture on my part, as many people who would have the ability to vote feel their time is better spent texting their friends and tweeting about their latest hemmoroid flareups than to vote.

[pcosmar]

http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm




The Constitution contains no explicit provisions for criminal law enforcement. Nor did the constitutions of any of the several states contain such provisions at the time of the Founding. Early constitutions enunciated the intention that law enforcement was a universal duty that each person owed to the community, rather than a power of the government. Founding-era constitutions addressed law enforcement from the standpoint of individual liberties and placed explicit barriers upon the state.

[DamianTV]

http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm


The Constitution contains no explicit provisions for criminal law enforcement. Nor did the constitutions of any of the several states contain such provisions at the time of the Founding. Early constitutions enunciated the intention that law enforcement was a universal duty that each person owed to the community, rather than a power of the government. Founding-era constitutions addressed law enforcement from the standpoint of individual liberties and placed explicit barriers upon the state.

Not only Thread Win, but Thread OWN. ^^^

[Carson]

"How about if people just start running around here, policing the city on their own?"


What other choice do people have when someone comes in to your life saying the new law is if you don't give me your money I'll shoot. It just stands to reason the shooting to keep it is now fair game.

[kcchiefs6465]

This type of street justice would certainly make robbers think twice.
As well they should.

[Carson]

This type of street justice would certainly make robbers think twice before attempting robbery.

The place it really helps is for kids starting out contemplating different ways to earn a living.

The sad thing is we didn't leave them much of a place to get a start in.

[idiom]

Aw, I thought this thread was going to be about the Ukraine.

[Schifference]

If Detaining by private citizens is appropriate should it be more broadly applied?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9ffmd0GIYc