Conversation with a Venezuelan.

[gwax23]

I had a nice conversation on Facebook tonight with a friend I have in venezuela. I met him at an Airport in Spain. We were both on our way to Italy. I remember vaguely at the time talking briefly about politics/economics and the situation in Venezuela. This was still when Chavez was alive.

He messaged me recently and we began talking about the protests. It was definitely an interesting conversation and changed my views on the situation there a bit. I was previously very pessimistic thinking it was just socialist fighting for more socialists and that the people didnt want real freedom just more handouts. He lives in Caracas in the mist of it all. His english is bad so I spoke in the beginning simply before using a translator. He seemed very libertarian and I even linked him to the Spanish Mises Institute website. At first I thought I was going to have to argue with him about how government was the problem but amazingly he took the words out of my mouth and agreed with me completely. I was impressed and it gave me hope for the situation there and elsewhere. In general nice little insight into the goings on in Venezuela. Heres the edited convo if you guys are interested:
==

Gian Paolo
hi dude

Me
9:21pm
hey man how u holdin up?

Gian Paolo
9:50pm
good, good, but the situation here is difficult and you?

Me
9:51pm
im good thank you. And yes i heard about the riots in venezuela. Maduro is an asshole. did u protest?

Gian Paolo
9:54pm
yes, ofcourse I protest, almost every day

Me
9:55pm
what do the police do?

Gian Paolo
10:02pm
there is also a group who call themselves, who are armed by the government which they deny, and appear shooting, most of those killed in protests is their fault, and the government says we shoot ourselves, and we took all television channels for the truth is not known, every day the shortage is worse in the bad economic policies of the government, when this country has a lot more oil than dubai, it is absurd that we are so.

Me
10:03pm
I see Whats the name of this group? Do you think maduro will fall? Do you support socialism or capitalism?
What does it say on the tv stations in venezuela?

Gian Paolo
10:07pm
this grups are called COLECTIVOS. I Support capitalism, society must go hand in hand with private companies. on television that say nothing is bought by the government, what happens is that this is not ukraine, life is worth little and complaining that the government is hard to leave, but I hope

Me
10:10pm
Thanks for the information. Do you like Capriles? Lopez? Who are the main leaders of the protests?

Gian Paolo
10:14pm
if you knew that neither pleases me, lopez is very smart like capriles, but none gives solutions to overcome this problem, my leaders to ourselves our solution we are looking for out of this, but would vote for any two of them.

Me
10:16pm
Gotcha. They are better than the status quo but nothing special. I study economics/politics so Im interested in this stuff thats why I ask. How are the prices there? are they rising? Are things very expensive? Shortages?

Gian Paolo
10:17pm
and you how are you? how are things over there? I think the prox year if this is solved, I will travel to new york with my girlfriend

Me
10:18pm
Im ok. Things are tough here too, like everywhere. You should come to NY youll have a lot of fun. Lots of Venezuelans live here and go to my school.

Gian Paolo
10:19pm
every day there are more scarce, the government does not give raw material to the remaining few private companies, and private companies expropriated they do not put into production,

Me
10:20pm
Here in the US they have been saying there is no toilet paper left in Venezuela. Is this true?

Gian Paolo
10:20pm
prices rise every day more, and is worth less than the bolivar against the dollar
the government has stolen a lot, invest in weapons that do not need, saying "you are going to invade us" that other governments would they sold the country to united states, priate sell them to China and Russia.
no se cansan de mentir para que la gente de pocos recursos se crean todas sus mentiras (government lies a lot?)

Me
10:24pm
¿Qué piensan de los estadounidenses en Venezuela? (What do venezuelans think of Americans?

Gian Paolo
10:28pm
opposition we do not have nothing against you, but the "people" think they are going to invade us they want us to steal all the lies told by the government that recur every day, although they vacacionen in use and have their accounts millions there.

Me
10:30pm
¿Quieres salir de Venezuela? ¿Cómo se mantiene a sí mismo? ¿Hay puestos de trabajo? (Do you want to leave Venezuela? How do you support yourself? Are there jobs?

Gian Paolo
10:33pm
each day the work is less, but I work on my own and does not affect me, but every day it costs me more to get materials remains that people invent any street work, etc. .. I do not want to go to Venezuela , it would be easy, but I love my country.

Me
10:38pm
Eso es bueno. Manténgase a salvo. Estoy interesado en esta materia y estudio la economía. Este sitio web de un grupo que apoyo y el trabajo para: http://www.miseshispano.org/ Tienen un montón de artículos y libros sobre la economía. Apoyan a la libertad, el capitalismo y la paz. Si alguna vez tiene tiempo de leer algunas de las cosas hay que me haga saber lo que piensas. (Told him about the mises institute and how I support capitalism and freedom etc etc)

Instituto Mises Hispano | Cooperación voluntaria, coexistencia pacífica
www.miseshispano.org

Gian Paolo
10:38pm
explain to me your you study economics, as it is possible that a country with many mineral resources, fertile agricultural fields, oil and people who want to work and aspire to be someone in the future, somo almost the poorest country of Latin America?


Me
10:40pm
El gobierno es la raíz de todos los problemas. Restringen el comercio y destruir la prosperidad. El socialismo y el comunismo no funcionan. La historia tiene mostrar esto. Ellos sólo destruyen. Venezuela es rica en recursos y podría fácilmente ser muy rico. Maduro y Chávez y todo el gobierno corrupto han robado al pueblo y destruyó la economía.

Gian Paolo
10:41pm
exactamente

Me
10:42pm
Crean el control de precios con el fin de mantener los precios bajos. Pero si los precios son demasiado bajos forzados nadie va a vender o hacerlos. Es por eso que usted tiene una escasez. Los precios están subiendo en Venezuela porque el gobierno imprime dinero de la nada. El único dinero real es el oro y la plata, pero los trucos del gobierno la gente a pensar en su "papel" es el dinero. No es. Es inútil. Cuanto más que imprimen el menos valioso se vuelve.

Me
10:43pm
Los gobiernos no crean nada, no producen nada. Sólo pueden usar la fuerza para robar a la gente. Cualesquiera que sean las governemnts tienen es algo que han robado al pueblo. Los gobiernos son los parásitos.

Gian Paolo
10:46pm
el gobierno tiene que administrar e invertir?

Me
10:47pm
No. Lo único que el gobierno debería hacer es proteger los derechos del pueblo. Protege contra el robo, el asesinato, asalto, etc Nada más que eso. El sector privado y las empresas son los que invierten y crean.
Cuanto menos los gobiernos hagan lo mejor. Venezuela necesita más libertad, no más gobierno. El gobierno siempre va a decir "Esto lo hacemos por los pobres", "hacemos esto también ayuda" "vamos a hacer las cosas betetr" pero mentir. Ellos sólo empeoran las cosas.

Gian Paolo
10:50pm
sure, sure, I know, but I say in this case and that this government claims to be "socialist" should do that in socialism?
este gobierno elimino el sector privado para ellos tener el control
:S
todos los gobiernos "socialistas" mienten de la misma forma

Me
10:53pm
Sí. Y ahora todo el mundo sufre por ello. Deshágase de los impuestos, las regulaciones y las leyes, y los controles y las reglas. Deja que la gente sea libre de hacer lo que les plazca aslong ya que te hace daño a nadie más. Soy un libertario (eso es lo que lo llaman en América) Creemos que la gente debe tener la libertad de hacer lo que quieran, siempre y cuando ellos no herir a nadie más.

Gian Paolo
10:55pm
aqui la mitad de los venezolanos creemos en eso, la otra mitad les metieron en el cerebro la mentira

Me
10:56pm
Sí. El gobierno es dueño de todos los medios de comunicación. Son dueños de los periódicos, las estaciones de televisión, de radio de todo. No puede haber "libertad de prensa" o "libertad de expresión" si el gobierno es dueño de todo.

Gian Paolo
11:00pm
and not just the media, also the CNE, which is the electorar system, the Attorney General, the Minister of Communication, education among others, national guard and army.
why we never win elections, too, that the poor vote for the government always had little and the government gave them anything to conform and lies, many lies ...

Me
11:02pm
exactamente! Sobre todo la educación. El gobierno no educa a la gente que la lluvia lava them.People ir a las escuelas públicas a partir de una edad muy temprana y se les dice a amar la governemnt y que el gobierno es bueno. Ellos no aprender nada, sólo obedecer

Gian Paolo
11:03pm
exactamente

Me
11:03pm
Ya cree en lo que estoy diciendo. Esto es bueno. Y sí, el pobre se deje engañar por las governemnts "promete" el gobierno les promete un millón de cosas y creen que para que voten por ellos. Pero nada cambia. Su siempre la misma. Ellos siguen siendo pobres y el gobierno se mantiene en el poder.

[Petar]

It's very common down here in South America for people to be more reasonable like that.

[gwax23]

It's very common down here in South America for people to be more reasonable like that.

Interesting. Like I said did not expect this. Its good to see, theres hope afterall.

[kcchiefs6465]

I spoke to a Brit a couple of weeks ago who understood more about economics and the situation we face than most any American.

Very refreshing to see so many people understand.

Truthfully, I do not doubt that simply through law, libertarianism wins out. That is, voluntary interaction will always be superior to forced. With that I am hopeful.

[gwax23]

Ill translate my responses tmr. Forgot to do it. Basically I explained the non aggression principle and other free market/libertarian principles, which he already agreed with or knew in some form.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

South America isn't as lost as most places now-a-days. There are good things happening like places like Paraguay, Chile, Costa Rica, etc. Of course, there are also some terrible places, but for the most part South America has a brighter future just because they hardly get any world attention. (I'd almost wager that libertarianism is doing better in South America than here in America...)

[AngryCanadian]

Meanwhile in Venezuela.

Unemployment rate: 7.8% (2012 est.) (http://www.indexmundi.com/venezuela/unemployment_rate.html)

Venezuelan Unemployment Rate Drops (http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/5745)

At least the MSM are finally admitting the protesters are the upper class, rich kids.

[AngryCanadian]

I had a nice conversation on Facebook tonight with a friend I have in venezuela. I met him at an Airport in Spain. We were both on our way to Italy. I remember vaguely at the time talking briefly about politics/economics and the situation in Venezuela. This was still when Chavez was alive.

He messaged me recently and we began talking about the protests. It was definitely an interesting conversation and changed my views on the situation there a bit. I was previously very pessimistic thinking it was just socialist fighting for more socialists and that the people didnt want real freedom just more handouts. He lives in Caracas in the mist of it all. His english is bad so I spoke in the beginning simply before using a translator. He seemed very libertarian and I even linked him to the Spanish Mises Institute website. At first I thought I was going to have to argue with him about how government was the problem but amazingly he took the words out of my mouth and agreed with me completely. I was impressed and it gave me hope for the situation there and elsewhere. In general nice little insight into the goings on in Venezuela. Heres the edited convo if you guys are interested:
==

Gian Paolo
hi dude

Me
9:21pm
hey man how u holdin up?

Gian Paolo
9:50pm
good, good, but the situation here is difficult and you?

Me
9:51pm
im good thank you. And yes i heard about the riots in venezuela. Maduro is an asshole. did u protest?

Gian Paolo
9:54pm
yes, ofcourse I protest, almost every day

Me
9:55pm
what do the police do?

Gian Paolo
10:02pm
there is also a group who call themselves, who are armed by the government which they deny, and appear shooting, most of those killed in protests is their fault, and the government says we shoot ourselves, and we took all television channels for the truth is not known, every day the shortage is worse in the bad economic policies of the government, when this country has a lot more oil than dubai, it is absurd that we are so.

Me
10:03pm
I see Whats the name of this group? Do you think maduro will fall? Do you support socialism or capitalism?
What does it say on the tv stations in venezuela?

Gian Paolo
10:07pm
this grups are called COLECTIVOS. I Support capitalism, society must go hand in hand with private companies. on television that say nothing is bought by the government, what happens is that this is not ukraine, life is worth little and complaining that the government is hard to leave, but I hope

Me
10:10pm
Thanks for the information. Do you like Capriles? Lopez? Who are the main leaders of the protests?

Gian Paolo
10:14pm
if you knew that neither pleases me, lopez is very smart like capriles, but none gives solutions to overcome this problem, my leaders to ourselves our solution we are looking for out of this, but would vote for any two of them.

Me
10:16pm
Gotcha. They are better than the status quo but nothing special. I study economics/politics so Im interested in this stuff thats why I ask. How are the prices there? are they rising? Are things very expensive? Shortages?

Gian Paolo
10:17pm
and you how are you? how are things over there? I think the prox year if this is solved, I will travel to new york with my girlfriend

Me
10:18pm
Im ok. Things are tough here too, like everywhere. You should come to NY youll have a lot of fun. Lots of Venezuelans live here and go to my school.

Gian Paolo
10:19pm
every day there are more scarce, the government does not give raw material to the remaining few private companies, and private companies expropriated they do not put into production,

Me
10:20pm
Here in the US they have been saying there is no toilet paper left in Venezuela. Is this true?

Gian Paolo
10:20pm
prices rise every day more, and is worth less than the bolivar against the dollar
the government has stolen a lot, invest in weapons that do not need, saying "you are going to invade us" that other governments would they sold the country to united states, priate sell them to China and Russia.
no se cansan de mentir para que la gente de pocos recursos se crean todas sus mentiras (government lies a lot?)

Me
10:24pm
¿Qué piensan de los estadounidenses en Venezuela? (What do venezuelans think of Americans?

Gian Paolo
10:28pm
opposition we do not have nothing against you, but the "people" think they are going to invade us they want us to steal all the lies told by the government that recur every day, although they vacacionen in use and have their accounts millions there.

Me
10:30pm
¿Quieres salir de Venezuela? ¿Cómo se mantiene a sí mismo? ¿Hay puestos de trabajo? (Do you want to leave Venezuela? How do you support yourself? Are there jobs?

Gian Paolo
10:33pm
each day the work is less, but I work on my own and does not affect me, but every day it costs me more to get materials remains that people invent any street work, etc. .. I do not want to go to Venezuela , it would be easy, but I love my country.

Me
10:38pm
Eso es bueno. Manténgase a salvo. Estoy interesado en esta materia y estudio la economía. Este sitio web de un grupo que apoyo y el trabajo para: http://www.miseshispano.org/ Tienen un montón de artículos y libros sobre la economía. Apoyan a la libertad, el capitalismo y la paz. Si alguna vez tiene tiempo de leer algunas de las cosas hay que me haga saber lo que piensas. (Told him about the mises institute and how I support capitalism and freedom etc etc)

Instituto Mises Hispano | Cooperación voluntaria, coexistencia pacífica
www.miseshispano.org

Gian Paolo
10:38pm
explain to me your you study economics, as it is possible that a country with many mineral resources, fertile agricultural fields, oil and people who want to work and aspire to be someone in the future, somo almost the poorest country of Latin America?


Me
10:40pm
El gobierno es la raíz de todos los problemas. Restringen el comercio y destruir la prosperidad. El socialismo y el comunismo no funcionan. La historia tiene mostrar esto. Ellos sólo destruyen. Venezuela es rica en recursos y podría fácilmente ser muy rico. Maduro y Chávez y todo el gobierno corrupto han robado al pueblo y destruyó la economía.

Gian Paolo
10:41pm
exactamente

Me
10:42pm
Crean el control de precios con el fin de mantener los precios bajos. Pero si los precios son demasiado bajos forzados nadie va a vender o hacerlos. Es por eso que usted tiene una escasez. Los precios están subiendo en Venezuela porque el gobierno imprime dinero de la nada. El único dinero real es el oro y la plata, pero los trucos del gobierno la gente a pensar en su "papel" es el dinero. No es. Es inútil. Cuanto más que imprimen el menos valioso se vuelve.

Me
10:43pm
Los gobiernos no crean nada, no producen nada. Sólo pueden usar la fuerza para robar a la gente. Cualesquiera que sean las governemnts tienen es algo que han robado al pueblo. Los gobiernos son los parásitos.

Gian Paolo
10:46pm
el gobierno tiene que administrar e invertir?

Me
10:47pm
No. Lo único que el gobierno debería hacer es proteger los derechos del pueblo. Protege contra el robo, el asesinato, asalto, etc Nada más que eso. El sector privado y las empresas son los que invierten y crean.
Cuanto menos los gobiernos hagan lo mejor. Venezuela necesita más libertad, no más gobierno. El gobierno siempre va a decir "Esto lo hacemos por los pobres", "hacemos esto también ayuda" "vamos a hacer las cosas betetr" pero mentir. Ellos sólo empeoran las cosas.

Gian Paolo
10:50pm
sure, sure, I know, but I say in this case and that this government claims to be "socialist" should do that in socialism?
este gobierno elimino el sector privado para ellos tener el control
:S
todos los gobiernos "socialistas" mienten de la misma forma

Me
10:53pm
Sí. Y ahora todo el mundo sufre por ello. Deshágase de los impuestos, las regulaciones y las leyes, y los controles y las reglas. Deja que la gente sea libre de hacer lo que les plazca aslong ya que te hace daño a nadie más. Soy un libertario (eso es lo que lo llaman en América) Creemos que la gente debe tener la libertad de hacer lo que quieran, siempre y cuando ellos no herir a nadie más.

Gian Paolo
10:55pm
aqui la mitad de los venezolanos creemos en eso, la otra mitad les metieron en el cerebro la mentira

Me
10:56pm
Sí. El gobierno es dueño de todos los medios de comunicación. Son dueños de los periódicos, las estaciones de televisión, de radio de todo. No puede haber "libertad de prensa" o "libertad de expresión" si el gobierno es dueño de todo.

Gian Paolo
11:00pm
and not just the media, also the CNE, which is the electorar system, the Attorney General, the Minister of Communication, education among others, national guard and army.
why we never win elections, too, that the poor vote for the government always had little and the government gave them anything to conform and lies, many lies ...

Me
11:02pm
exactamente! Sobre todo la educación. El gobierno no educa a la gente que la lluvia lava them.People ir a las escuelas públicas a partir de una edad muy temprana y se les dice a amar la governemnt y que el gobierno es bueno. Ellos no aprender nada, sólo obedecer

Gian Paolo
11:03pm
exactamente

Me
11:03pm
Ya cree en lo que estoy diciendo. Esto es bueno. Y sí, el pobre se deje engañar por las governemnts "promete" el gobierno les promete un millón de cosas y creen que para que voten por ellos. Pero nada cambia. Su siempre la misma. Ellos siguen siendo pobres y el gobierno se mantiene en el poder.







there is also a group who call themselves, who are armed by the government which they deny, and appear shooting, most of those killed in protests is their fault, and the government says we shoot ourselves, and we took all television channels for the truth is not known, every day the shortage is worse in the bad economic policies of the government, when this country has a lot more oil than dubai, it is absurd that we are so.

Nice little propaganda seems ur freind forget that the opposition are also heavily armed to Ironic this the same line being used by the Ukrainian opposition.

[gwax23]

Yes clearly my friend was lying, the government in Caracas is legitimate and the people love them.....You probably gave this thread 3 stars Im assuming?

[AngryCanadian]

Yes clearly my friend was lying, the government in Caracas is legitimate and the people love them.....You probably gave this thread 3 stars Im assuming?

Why is that you Republicans always support radicals and the upper class folks?


You probably gave this thread 3 stars Im assuming?
I am quite sure this thread was worthy of 10 stars if we had such a choice here. Whats happening in Venezuela its the same Crap what happened in Kiev these protests organized by the same people.


As for you "alleged freind" yeah i heard those claims before, its either you posted from your own or you copied from elsewhere cause i have seen it on the social media. Including the lines here.


This part kinda backfires at you.


there is also a group who call themselves, who are armed by the government which they deny, and appear shooting, most of those killed in protests is their fault, and the government says we shoot ourselves, and we took all television channels for the truth is not known, every day the shortage is worse in the bad economic policies of the government, when this country has a lot more oil than dubai, it is absurd that we are so.

I have seen a lot of images by the opposition that even show them whom are armed, i had feeling you arent going to say anything about that of course you wont. As for the bad economic policies of the government comment that your alleged freind stated about.


Funny thats the same BS line i heard when the first protests had occurred in Venezuela in 2000 or so.

Also this.



if you knew that neither pleases me, lopez is very smart like capriles, but none gives solutions to overcome this problem, my leaders to ourselves our solution we are looking for out of this, but would vote for any two of them.

How stupid do you think some Americans to believe this? oh on second thought.

[Madison320]

Meanwhile in Venezuela.

Unemployment rate: 7.8% (2012 est.) (http://www.indexmundi.com/venezuela/unemployment_rate.html)

Venezuelan Unemployment Rate Drops (http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/5745)

At least the MSM are finally admitting the protesters are the upper class, rich kids.

Ha! Ha! Ha! You're funny!

My wife is from Colombia and has relatives in Venezuela. It's a disaster. They have food shortages, borderline hyperinflation(60%), soaring crime rates and worst of all, they're out of toilet paper!

[AngryCanadian]

Ha! Ha! Ha! You're funny!

My wife is from Colombia and has relatives in Venezuela. It's a disaster. They have food shortages, borderline hyperinflation(60%), soaring crime rates and worst of all, they're out of toilet paper!



they're out of toilet paper!
Really you actual believe the Western News media propaganda on that? you might as well believe that Saddam killed babies in incubators then.

I am sure everything will be quite well once they have lopez or capriles so then McCain can safely say we are all Venezuelans.

[MRK]

Ha! Ha! Ha! You're funny!

My wife is from Colombia and has relatives in Venezuela. It's a disaster. They have food shortages, borderline hyperinflation(60%), soaring crime rates and worst of all, they're out of toilet paper!

Sounds like it's ripe time to introduce the bum gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower) to South America.

[AngryCanadian]

Ha! Ha! Ha! You're funny!

My wife is from Colombia and has relatives in Venezuela. It's a disaster. They have food shortages, borderline hyperinflation(60%), soaring crime rates and worst of all, they're out of toilet paper!



You know why they are targeting Venezuela? because of its Rich oil, Funny seems that the Arab Spring has messed a few countries including Qatar and Saudi Arabia. But your fine with being your allies.

Its no conspiracy after all we both on this forum agreed that the Arab Spring protests the majority of them are manufactured.

[gwax23]

Angrycanadian you have to be one of the dumbest communists ive met. The legnths you will go to whitewash the regime there is disgusting. Stop putting everything in some childish and simplified "your a republican" fashion. Also dont neg rep me inherently talking about the Iraq war. I never supported the Iraq war and that has nothing to do with Venezuela.


Here are screen shots of the convo with my "fake" friend. Why would I post this thread? Whats my motive? He messaged me out of the blue to tell me what is happening. What is his motive to lie to me?

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee324/gwax23/Untitled.png (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/gwax23/media/Untitled.png.html)

[jonhowe]

Angrycanadian you have to be one of the dumbest communists ive met. The legnths you will go to whitewash the regime there is disgusting. Stop putting everything in some childish and simplified "your a republican" fashion. Also dont neg rep me inherently talking about the Iraq war. I never supported the Iraq war and that has nothing to do with Venezuela.


Here are screen shots of the convo with my "fake" friend. Why would I post this thread? Whats my motive? He messaged me out of the blue to tell me what is happening. What is his motive to lie to me?

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee324/gwax23/Untitled.png (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/gwax23/media/Untitled.png.html)


+rep

This guy seems to think that every single thing that does not agree with whatever his narrative is is simply made up.

[AngryCanadian]

Angrycanadian you have to be one of the dumbest communists ive met. The legnths you will go to whitewash the regime there is disgusting. Stop putting everything in some childish and simplified "your a republican" fashion. Also dont neg rep me inherently talking about the Iraq war. I never supported the Iraq war and that has nothing to do with Venezuela.


Here are screen shots of the convo with my "fake" friend. Why would I post this thread? Whats my motive? He messaged me out of the blue to tell me what is happening. What is his motive to lie to me?

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee324/gwax23/Untitled.png (http://s532.photobucket.com/user/gwax23/media/Untitled.png.html)



that has nothing to do with Venezuela.
Seems like your either not getting my point or your just avoiding it. As for your facebook freind nice try though i have seen similar nonsense your friend might as well start liking John McCain and Co.

[AngryCanadian]

+rep

This guy seems to think that every single thing that does not agree with whatever his narrative is is simply made up.
Maybe i should start liking the fascists in Kiev and the upper class protests in Venezuela as well then after that why not start liking the protestors in Syria whom are funded by the same people that fund and organize the protests in Venezuela and Ukraine?



that does not agree with whatever his narrative is is simply made up
If you weren't paying attention on Libya,Egypt, Syria and most recently Ukraine protesters and protests. Then you wont understand, that is unless you believe the protests were all home based real and no NGOs were involved.

[gwax23]

Ukraine and Venezuela are completely different. Stop trying to find some commonality and single theory to explain every mass disturbance there is.

You claimed my friend was fake I proved you wrong. He provided a first hand account from Caracas just how bad the economic and political situation is. You dismiss him and babble on about Republicans and McCain because your clearly confused and trying to superimpose a 15 year olds political beliefs on complex international geopolitical situations.

My friend isnt "upper class" he can barely find work. The upper classes are the political elite of Maduros regime. The guy whose ass your kissing.

Radical? Is it radical to believe in freedom? If so then yes I am one and support those who do aswell.

Your so quick to buy Venezuela's bullshit employment figures (which arent anything to brag about especially with inflation as it is) but a first hand account from someone living there your quick to dismiss as "propaganda." Why dont you talk about the Caracas Stock exchange? Its through the roof? Or the inflation? Shortages? They cant even find toilet paper to wipe their own asses and you babble on like a moron defending maduro. They do the same thing the BLS does here. They dont count people are part of the labor force, they put people on the government dole, and use other fraudulent accounting to cook the employment figures. I mean North Korea has practically no unemployment but thats hardly an accomplishment worth bragging about.

[compromise]

the upper class protests in Venezuela

Angry Canadian believes in the abolition of classes, he is most likely a communist.

[gwax23]

Angry Canadian believes in the abolition of classes, he is most likely a communist.

Figured as much.

[AngryCanadian]

Angry Canadian believes in the abolition of classes, he is most likely a communist.

I sure dont have nor any posters of Stalin nor posters of Commission thats for sure. Nice try with that claim again NeoCon. Whom Supports Ted Cruz.

[AngryCanadian]

Figured as much.

Funny coming from a Person whom lives pretty much in a liberal state of NY. Given the choices in NY as i recalled i am pretty sure you would vote for Hillary given the choices.

[Cutlerzzz]

Angry Canadian believes in the abolition of classes, he is most likely a communist.

He has also talked about how awesome Yugoslavia was under Communism before.

[AngryCanadian]

He has also talked about how awesome Yugoslavia was under Communism before.

Don't believe my words Yankee? go ask an other Balkan people whom are currently living in the newly and wonderfully liberated Balkans whom are truly loving not only Democracy but also are excited about going to be an EU member.


Yugoslavia was an awesome before your Government started the whole war of course go on blame the Serbs on that again as usual nothing it seems that has changed.

[AngryCanadian]

He has also talked about how awesome Yugoslavia was under Communism before.

I guess the Pro Venezuelan supporters of the rich class forget what the Balkans had protests of there own recently? here's something to fresh up your memory.

[URL="http://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/valerie-hopkins/we-are-hungry-in-three-languages-citizens-protest-in-bosnia"]"We are hungry in three languages": citizens protest in Bosnia [/URL

Do you honestly think it would even matter if they had an pr capitalist government in power? nothing would have even chance. I know where the majority of you are coming from.

Your probably in that world of yours where you believe that Capitalism & Globalization are the only answer to the poor. But Globalization has other effects.

[Mini-Me]

Really you actual believe the Western News media propaganda on that? you might as well believe that Saddam killed babies in incubators then.

I am sure everything will be quite well once they have lopez or capriles so then McCain can safely say we are all Venezuelans.

He implicitly referred to his wife's relatives who live there as his source, not the MSM. Why be so antagonistic?

A thought occurred to me yesterday: You know how Russia Today targets disaffected political minorities in the US with semi-compatible goals and agitates for change, and we want change for our own reasons, so we're happy to see a perspective other than the MSM's? That's probably not so far off from the CIA's rabblerousing, because it's never hard to find people who have grievances against their own governments (especially considering governments are inherently evil). However, the CIA then goes ahead and rigs the deck by making sure their next government is a US puppet government. That's horrible, but it doesn't mean the protestors themselves are never fighting for genuine and worthwhile reasons either. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they aren't, but it's not really valid to dismiss their motives just because the CIA is egging them on for its own reasons (...so it can later hijack their revolution).

[Petar]

The communist Yugos did a really good job of making people retarded and that is probably the number one thing holding back Croatia as well as the other countries within that region...

[AngryCanadian]

He implicitly referred to his wife's relatives who live there as his source, not the MSM. Why be so antagonistic?

A thought occurred to me yesterday: You know how Russia Today targets disaffected political minorities in the US with semi-compatible goals and agitates for change, and we want change for our own reasons, so we're happy to see a perspective other than the MSM's? That's probably not so far off from the CIA's rabblerousing, because it's never hard to find people who have grievances against their own governments (especially considering governments are inherently evil). However, the CIA then goes ahead and rigs the deck by making sure their next government is a US puppet government. That's horrible, but it doesn't mean the protestors themselves are never fighting for genuine and worthwhile reasons either. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they aren't, but it's not really valid to dismiss their motives just because the CIA is egging them on for its own reasons (...so it can later hijack their revolution).



He implicitly referred to his wife's relatives who live there as his source, not the MSM. Why be so antagonistic?
You know i heard this claim on the social media to right? that its always the alleged relatives whom keeps spewing the claims that the government is killing the protesters?

[AngryCanadian]

The communist Yugos did a really good job of making people retarded and that is probably the number one thing holding back Croatia as well as the other countries within that region...


The communist Yugos did a really good job of making people retarded
Look yourself in the mirror and where you live now in America a nation with the majority of well what you stated. Ironic you left to Bosnia i guess that means your an Bosnian Muslim.

As the majority of Serbs weren't allowed in America during the war and after the war as i recalled it. Unless you had tons of Money.

[Petar]

Angry Canadian is a Yugoslavian Professor of logic...

[Petar]

Brain cells were being redistributed and rationed during the regime... Angry Canadian received his "fair amount"...

[AngryCanadian]

Brain cells were being redistributed and rationed during the regime... Angry Canadian received his "fair amount"...

Cute little cheap insults but they wont do anything Petar.

[Petar]

Oh shit, they "won't anything"...

[AngryCanadian]

Oh shit, they "won't anything"...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZajyVas4Jg


Seems like some here have a sort term memory problem and have forgotten 2002 already eh?

[gwax23]

Im from a liberal state...so what? I was born here and lived here, that means I have to like our shitty politicians?

[AngryCanadian]

Im from a liberal state...so what? I was born here and lived here, that means I have to like our shitty politicians?

Bascilly your attacks, insult wont mean much judging by the state you are in. I am quite sure you voted for Hillary and Clinton to.

[gwax23]

Bascilly your attacks, insult wont mean much judging by the state you are in. I am quite sure you voted for Hillary and Clinton to.

Are you mental? You have to be the stupidest person on these forums

[jonhowe]

Maybe i should start liking the fascists in Kiev and the upper class protests in Venezuela as well then after that why not start liking the protestors in Syria whom are funded by the same people that fund and organize the protests in Venezuela and Ukraine?



If you weren't paying attention on Libya,Egypt, Syria and most recently Ukraine protesters and protests. Then you wont understand, that is unless you believe the protests were all home based real and no NGOs were involved.



Yeah, because it's all or nothing, right? There cant be legitimate protesters with legitimate gripes. NONE OF THOSE EXIST I GUESS. EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRIES YOU MENTIONED IS COMPLETELY HAPPY.

Right?


Or could the truth be somewhere in between? It's like saying no one legitimately took part in OWS because there were some government plants. You're pretty thick headed, sir.

[Mini-Me]

You know i heard this claim on the social media to right? that its always the alleged relatives whom keeps spewing the claims that the government is killing the protesters?

If the Venezuelans have a shortage of toilet paper like Madison320's wife's relatives say, why would it be suspicious that you heard about it from more than one source? By definition, a shortage of toilet paper across a country (or major sections thereof) extends beyond a single family. :rolleyes:

[AngryCanadian]

If the Venezuelans have a shortage of toilet paper like Madison320's wife's relatives say, why would it be suspicious that you heard about it from more than one source? By definition, a shortage of toilet paper across a country (or major sections thereof) extends beyond a single family. :rolleyes:

Yeah and the MSM claimed about Syria, Libya how they have shortage of everything etc is all propaganda and surprising everyone is believing it. Just like the Iraqi incubators story if you believe this then you might as well believe the incubators story.

[Mini-Me]

Yeah and the MSM claimed about Syria, Libya how they have shortage of everything etc is all propaganda and surprising everyone is believing it. Just like the Iraqi incubators story if you believe this then you might as well believe the incubators story.

You specifically said that social media corroborating a family's reports of shortages was suspicious (implying Madison320, his wife, or her family is lying), because they corroborated it. This implies that if there were ever real shortages, you'd expect only one person or family to notice or talk about it, which inherently violates the meaning of "shortages." I'm directly criticizing the fantastically poor logic you used in making that argument. Instead of making a sensible rebuttal or conceding that you overreached, you're totally dodging the criticism and reasserting a naked, circular conclusion that shortages could apparently never happen and anyone who says they are must be lying. That says a lot about your intellectual honesty and credibility, and it is now your responsibililty to make amends if you want me or anyone else reading this to ever take anything you say in good faith. Your ball, "Canadian."

[AngryCanadian]

You specifically said that social media corroborating a family's reports of shortages was suspicious (implying Madison320, his wife, or her family is lying), because they corroborated it. This implies that if there were ever real shortages, you'd expect only one person or family to notice or talk about it, which inherently violates the meaning of "shortages." I'm directly criticizing the fantastically poor logic you used in making that argument. Instead of making a sensible rebuttal or conceding that you overreached, you're totally dodging the criticism and reasserting a naked, circular conclusion that shortages could apparently never happen and anyone who says they are must be lying. That says a lot about your intellectual honesty and credibility, and it is now your responsibililty to make amends if you want me or anyone else reading this to ever take anything you say in good faith. Your ball, "Canadian."

A family on facebook yeah i get it, they must quite true right?


Its not surprising you avoided my comment about Saddam's incubators story but.



That says a lot about your intellectual honesty and credibility, and it is now your responsibililty to make amends if you want me or anyone else reading this to ever take anything you say in good faith. Your ball, "Canadian."

Really? are you now accusing me of being stupid and uncool for not supporting the opposition in Venezuela? that is nothing more then an Color revolution.


This implies that if there were ever real shortages, you'd expect only one person or family to notice or talk about it, which inherently violates the meaning of "shortages." I'm directly criticizing the fantastically poor logic you used in making that argument. Instead of making a sensible rebuttal or conceding that you overreached
Its called Propaganda and thats why i dont buy it from this alleged family on facebook? people still use facebook? now thats a laugh.

[AngryCanadian]

You specifically said that social media corroborating a family's reports of shortages was suspicious (implying Madison320, his wife, or her family is lying), because they corroborated it. This implies that if there were ever real shortages, you'd expect only one person or family to notice or talk about it, which inherently violates the meaning of "shortages." I'm directly criticizing the fantastically poor logic you used in making that argument. Instead of making a sensible rebuttal or conceding that you overreached, you're totally dodging the criticism and reasserting a naked, circular conclusion that shortages could apparently never happen and anyone who says they are must be lying. That says a lot about your intellectual honesty and credibility, and it is now your responsibililty to make amends if you want me or anyone else reading this to ever take anything you say in good faith. Your ball, "Canadian."

As such i am sure you would agree with this.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BiIkMBjCEAA0zY2.jpg:large
:rolleyes:

[Mini-Me]

A family on facebook yeah i get it, they must quite true right?
I'm talking about Madison320's wife's family, not gwax23's Spanish friend. Maybe Madison320's wife's family talked over Facebook, or maybe it was over email, or maybe it was over snail mail letters. It doesn't matter. The basic argument you made was that anyone who ever complains of shortages MUST be lying as part of a conspiracy against the perfect Venezuelan government, especially if someone else corroborates them. There cannot POSSIBLY be real problems in Venezuela and real unhappy people that the CIA is exploiting for their own ends, right? Any evidence of this is only evidence that the conspiracy is even wider than you thought, right?

It's nonsensical, and I called you on it. It's theoretically possible that the reports of shortages are fabricated, but you would need to make far more convincing and logical arguments to be taken seriously.


Its not surprising you avoided my comment about Saddam's incubators story but.
The Saddam incubator story you used to change the subject is absolutely irrelevant to criticizing specific non sequiturs in your logic, but for the record, no, of course I never believed it. If I had even heard such a ridiculous story over ten years ago, I would have sought out someone like Ron Paul a lot sooner too.

Granted, it's just barely possible that a total psychopath like Saddam might do something like that as a recreational activity (replace Saddam with "John McCain" or "Kermit Gosnell" to see what I mean), but he'd be likely to keep it so secret that it's unlikely any reports would have emerged. That makes it exceedingly likely that the reports were ridiculous propaganda, and any resemblance to real life events would have been coincidental. ;) Never forget that the world isn't run by "good guy governments" and "bad guy governments." It's run by "bad guy governments with good PR" and "bad guy governments with bad PR," and every single one without exception is abusive.


Really? are you now accusing me of being stupid and uncool for not supporting the opposition in Venezuela? that is nothing more then an Color revolution.
No, I'm accusing you of being dishonest for using invalid logic to support your position and deliberately evading criticism of your specific arguments with misdirection and wild accusations. Even if you were correct - doubtful - you would need logical arguments to convince people of it.


Its called Propaganda and thats why i dont buy it from this alleged family on facebook? people still use facebook? now thats a laugh.
gwax23 referred to Facebook, but Madison320 never said "Facebook" in his post about his wife's family, which is what I was referring to.

In any case, yes, people actually do still use Facebook...unless you're suggesting there are literally billions of CIA agents and fake users on Facebook generating petabytes of false photos, wall posts, and status updates, all to pretend it still has users. Is that what you're suggesting? If not, clarify why you believe that absolutely no one uses Facebook anymore, and reconcile that with the continuing activity on Facebook.



As such i am sure you would agree with this.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BiIkMBjCEAA0zY2.jpg:large
:rolleyes:

I see you find it appropriate to respond to specific logical criticisms with more wild unsubstantiated accusations and a neg rep saying:

I am sure you arent an Ron Paul supputer, as Ron Paul doesnt support Color reveoultions.
Incidentally, that was the first neg rep I've ever received, and it couldn't have come from a more insincere troll, so I suppose I'll take it as a compliment. In light of my posting history in this thread and others I'd say you're incapable of reading comprehension, but I'd be fooling myself to think you were posting in good faith at all. I'll assume your straw man attacks are deliberate. Neg rep returned (first I've given as well, I believe).

[Madison320]

Incidentally, that was the first neg rep I've ever received, and it couldn't have come from a more insincere troll, so I suppose I'll take it as a compliment. In light of my posting history in this thread and others I'd say you're incapable of reading comprehension, but I'd be fooling myself to think you were posting in good faith at all. I'll assume your straw man attacks are deliberate. Neg rep returned (first I've given as well, I believe).

Why are you wasting your time on this guy?

[Mini-Me]

What are you wasting your time on this guy?

This thread has been my first real interaction with him, so I wasn't really sure what he was about until now. With as long as he's been here without being banned, I guess I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt at first. His responses have been so jaw-droppingly asinine though that I'm morbidly curious about just how insane they might get given the right question. You're right though, because it IS a waste of time. :-/

[MRK]

As such i am sure you would agree with this.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BiIkMBjCEAA0zY2.jpg:large
:rolleyes:

I'm willing to bet at least 95% of the people in that picture don't know what procrastination or audacity means or what a Republican might be.

[AngryCanadian]

I'm talking about Madison320's wife's family, not gwax23's Spanish friend. Maybe Madison320's wife's family talked over Facebook, or maybe it was over email, or maybe it was over snail mail letters. It doesn't matter. The basic argument you made was that anyone who ever complains of shortages MUST be lying as part of a conspiracy against the perfect Venezuelan government, especially if someone else corroborates them. There cannot POSSIBLY be real problems in Venezuela and real unhappy people that the CIA is exploiting for their own ends, right? Any evidence of this is only evidence that the conspiracy is even wider than you thought, right?

It's nonsensical, and I called you on it. It's theoretically possible that the reports of shortages are fabricated, but you would need to make far more convincing and logical arguments to be taken seriously.


The Saddam incubator story you used to change the subject is absolutely irrelevant to criticizing specific non sequiturs in your logic, but for the record, no, of course I never believed it. If I had even heard such a ridiculous story over ten years ago, I would have sought out someone like Ron Paul a lot sooner too.

Granted, it's just barely possible that a total psychopath like Saddam might do something like that as a recreational activity (replace Saddam with "John McCain" or "Kermit Gosnell" to see what I mean), but he'd be likely to keep it so secret that it's unlikely any reports would have emerged. That makes it exceedingly likely that the reports were ridiculous propaganda, and any resemblance to real life events would have been coincidental. ;) Never forget that the world isn't run by "good guy governments" and "bad guy governments." It's run by "bad guy governments with good PR" and "bad guy governments with bad PR," and every single one without exception is abusive.


No, I'm accusing you of being dishonest for using invalid logic to support your position and deliberately evading criticism of your specific arguments with misdirection and wild accusations. Even if you were correct - doubtful - you would need logical arguments to convince people of it.


gwax23 referred to Facebook, but Madison320 never said "Facebook" in his post about his wife's family, which is what I was referring to.

In any case, yes, people actually do still use Facebook...unless you're suggesting there are literally billions of CIA agents and fake users on Facebook generating petabytes of false photos, wall posts, and status updates, all to pretend it still has users. Is that what you're suggesting? If not, clarify why you believe that absolutely no one uses Facebook anymore, and reconcile that with the continuing activity on Facebook.




I see you find it appropriate to respond to specific logical criticisms with more wild unsubstantiated accusations and a neg rep saying:

Incidentally, that was the first neg rep I've ever received, and it couldn't have come from a more insincere troll, so I suppose I'll take it as a compliment. In light of my posting history in this thread and others I'd say you're incapable of reading comprehension, but I'd be fooling myself to think you were posting in good faith at all. I'll assume your straw man attacks are deliberate. Neg rep returned (first I've given as well, I believe).

I am not an troll nice try with that accusation. After reading what you wrote here.


that the CIA is exploiting for their own ends, right? Any evidence of this is only evidence that the conspiracy is even wider than you thought, right?

Your basically asking me to show you evidence that the CIA are exploiting the protests and have manufactured it the same they have done it in Ukraine?

[Mini-Me]

I am not an troll nice try with that accusation. After reading what you wrote here.

Your basically asking me to show you evidence that the CIA are exploiting the protests and have manufactured it the same they have done it in Ukraine?

No. I am already well-aware the CIA is exploiting the protests and involved in their inception. That is how they work, and I have agreed with you on that point more than once already. This is the third time at least. I also agree with you that the CIA is evil. However, it is very likely (actually a foregone conclusion) that Venezuela already has very real problems that the CIA is exploiting, and that the protestors have legitimate reason to protest and revolt too. That's why it was so easy for the CIA to agitate in the first place. Follow me so far?

My position is that there are more than two sides in this conflict. The protestors are probably mostly good people being manipulated by bad people (the CIA) into toppling other bad people (the Venezuelan government), because the CIA wants to hijack their revolution and install a puppet government (which is not what the protestors want). Unfortunately, the CIA is much more likely to get what they want out of this than the protestors. It is bad if the CIA wins, and it is also bad if the Venezuelan government wins; the people are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The Venezuelan people will probably lose either way, but if they resist they at least have a chance to reject both oppressors. It all depends on how many are prepared to fight the CIA's emerging puppet regime as hard as they're fighting the current regime. All I can do is hope that they're learning how this works, so they can reject both. It's not going to be easy though, thanks to Venezuelan gun control: The Venezuelan government has guns and body armor and explosives and the whole nine yards, and the CIA's "chosen few" will have guns and body armor and explosives and the whole nine yards (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?445791-BBC-Now-Admits-Armed-Nazis-Led-%93Revolution%94-in-Kiev-Ukraine/page2), but nobody else will have anything comparable, so it will be hard for the rest of the genuine protestors to assert control of their movement, especially if things get too violent.

Your position seems to be that anyone complaining of real problems in Venezuela is just part of the conspiracy to make the perfect Venezuelan government look bad...and that if anyone else provides evidence to corroborate them (i.e. gwax23 and Madison320's posts backing each other up from different sources, and the fact you say you've heard the same claims elsewhere on social media), that it cannot possibly be evidence of real problems in Venezuela. Instead, you seem to conclude it's only evidence that gwax23, Madison320, and/or their sources (such as Madison320's wife's family) are "in on" the conspiracy to tell lies about the infallible Venezuelan government...especially if the communication occurs over Facebook, because you imply no real people ever use Facebook anymore (so the billion or more who do must all be plants?). :rolleyes: The question you just responded to was a sarcastic one.

I should really just stop wasting my time though.

[AngryCanadian]

No. I am already well-aware the CIA is exploiting the protests and involved in their inception. That is how they work, and I have agreed with you on that point more than once already. This is the third time at least. I also agree with you that the CIA is evil. However, it is very likely (actually a foregone conclusion) that Venezuela already has very real problems that the CIA is exploiting, and that the protestors have legitimate reason to protest and revolt too. That's why it was so easy for the CIA to agitate in the first place. Follow me so far?

My position is that there are more than two sides in this conflict. The protestors are probably mostly good people being manipulated by bad people (the CIA) into toppling other bad people (the Venezuelan government), because the CIA wants to hijack their revolution and install a puppet government (which is not what the protestors want). Unfortunately, the CIA is much more likely to get what they want out of this than the protestors. It is bad if the CIA wins, and it is also bad if the Venezuelan government wins; the people are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The Venezuelan people will probably lose either way, but if they resist they at least have a chance to reject both oppressors. It all depends on how many are prepared to fight the CIA's emerging puppet regime as hard as they're fighting the current regime. All I can do is hope that they're learning how this works, so they can reject both. It's not going to be easy though, thanks to Venezuelan gun control: The Venezuelan government has guns and body armor and explosives and the whole nine yards, and the CIA's "chosen few" will have guns and body armor and explosives and the whole nine yards (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?445791-BBC-Now-Admits-Armed-Nazis-Led-%93Revolution%94-in-Kiev-Ukraine/page2), but nobody else will have anything comparable, so it will be hard for the rest of the genuine protestors to assert control of their movement, especially if things get too violent.

Your position seems to be that anyone complaining of real problems in Venezuela is just part of the conspiracy to make the perfect Venezuelan government look bad...and that if anyone else provides evidence to corroborate them (i.e. gwax23 and Madison320's posts backing each other up from different sources, and the fact you say you've heard the same claims elsewhere on social media), that it cannot possibly be evidence of real problems in Venezuela. Instead, you seem to conclude it's only evidence that gwax23, Madison320, and/or their sources (such as Madison320's wife's family) are "in on" the conspiracy to tell lies about the infallible Venezuelan government...especially if the communication occurs over Facebook, because you imply no real people ever use Facebook anymore (so the billion or more who do must all be plants?). :rolleyes: The question you just responded to was a sarcastic one.

I should really just stop wasting my time though.

You know how i feel about posts from facebook right? :rolleyes: i dont even use twitter as much i used. By the way this should interest u.


What is happening in Venezuela? (http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10456)

To create conditions of un-governability, the so-called “democratic opposition” had taken to barricading the roads to prevent the free movement of people and precipitate a crisis. They have set up barricades using boulders, glass, trees, trash filled bags, and anything else at their disposal. In other cases they are throwing glass and nails (called miguelitos, nails thrust through pieces of garden hose) onto the road to impede traffic. The police and the National Guard have cleaned city streets on numerous occasions. However, protestors hide materials and take over the streets again once the Guard departs.

Don't try to switch my support to the opposition. Cause thats never going to occur.

[Paulbot99]

Have fun supporting the Communists.

[qh4dotcom]

Why is everyone focusing only on the Venezuelans living in Venezuela? What about the Venezuelans living here in the US? They sure did not forget about their love and culture of socialism when they came here.

All of these Venezuelans don't understand that in order to have prosperity and meaningful change in their country their love and culture of socialism needs to be rejected. What's the point of overthrowing Maduro if they are going to elect another corrupt socialist president like him who will abuse power like he does?

Here's what a Cuban lady I know told me after she read my comments on Venezuela. Thousands of Venezuelans live in Doral, a city in the Miami area.


"I stood in line to vote in Doral both times and all Venezuelans around me were supporting Obama, all Democrats on the ballot, and tax hikes like the school bonds. They were all voting on the state amendments according to the what how the Democratic party told them to vote. And, one of those state amendments was against Obamacare. We got into some debates in that line. It was early voting so the line was long and we were standing there for five hours. They were defending all the socialist policies tooth and nail. They even defended the tax hikes for the school bonds after I showed them on my phone all the proof I had of the waste and mismanagement going on in our public schools since I'm a teacher and I know exactly what goes on. They didn't even understand that they were getting a tax increase. They kept arguing that the bonds were already there and that it belonged to the schools and that they were being given for free by the government. They had no concept of how bonds work, etc. and they still didn't care to know because as one venezuelan lady put it....it is the number one job of the government to provide lots of public social services for the people. And the Cubans are the same issue. .those new arrivals coming after the early 80s. You should hear most of them. They love socialism."

How dumb do you have to be to vote against the Florida constitutional amendment to nullify Obamacare? It did not pass by the way, no thanks to the Venezuelans.

[AngryCanadian]

Have fun supporting the Communists.

Ironic some NeoCons pretending to be libertarian while supporting armed opposition thugs the same as some NeoCons support the fascists in Kiev.

[AngryCanadian]

For those judging my point of view on this topic do enjoy reading this.
What Americans Can Learn From Venezuelan Democracy (http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/06/what-americans-can-learn-from-venezuelan-democracy/)

[Paulbot99]

Ironic some NeoCons pretending to be libertarian while supporting armed opposition thugs the same as some NeoCons support the fascists in Kiev.

Oh, I don't want us involved. That doesn't mean I can't have a distaste for Communism, though. And I'm sure the police aren't part of the opposition. ;)

[MelissaWV]

Why is everyone focusing only on the Venezuelans living in Venezuela? What about the Venezuelans living here in the US? They sure did not forget about their love and culture of socialism when they came here.

All of these Venezuelans don't understand that in order to have prosperity and meaningful change in their country their love and culture of socialism needs to be rejected. What's the point of overthrowing Maduro if they are going to elect another corrupt socialist president like him who will abuse power like he does?

Here's what a Cuban lady I know told me after she read my comments on Venezuela. Thousands of Venezuelans live in Doral, a city in the Miami area.



How dumb do you have to be to vote against the Florida constitutional amendment to nullify Obamacare? It did not pass by the way, no thanks to the Venezuelans.

The first several times you posted this anecdotal horsepucky in another thread weren't enough. You had to drag it here to up the stench.

[politics]

Some day, US policymakers will understand that the carrot and stick policy on latin america just doesn't work, never did.
Just need to use the carrot, be patience, it will work.
I know it may mean nothing to most of you right now, but indeed, it is just that simple