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aGameOfThrones
02-21-2014, 09:21 PM
At age 58 and less than a decade away from retirement, Nancie Eichengreen, found herself having to start over from scratch.

It was 2012 and she had been laid off for the second time in 10 years from her job as a legal secretary. She spent a few years collecting unemployment benefits and dipping into her meager 401(k) savings to fill in the gaps.

“It’s kind of scary because I don’t envision a retirement for myself,” Eichengreen told Yahoo Finance. “I’m just going to have to keep working.”

Two years ago, she decided to start over completely, going back to school for a Masters degree in social work at Yeshiva University in New York. Today, Eichengreen now 60, is living off of student loans and says it’s unlikely that she’ll be able to pay off her $200,000 student debt, which includes what she borrowed for her first Masters studies in broadcast management.

“I don’t think social workers make much money so I’ll probably be dead before I pay that off,” she said.

Her situation is unfortunate but not unique. Thirty-four percent of workers have nothing set aside for retirement, according to the U.S. Social Security Administration. A study by the National Institute on Retirement Security found 40 percent of workers 55-65 years old do not own assets in a retirement account.

And as a result of the recession, more and more workers over the age of 50 are ill-prepared for retirement and are doing whatever they can to get by. Eichengreen, who was unemployed for over a year, chose social work as a way to counsel and encourage her peers. She is one of 2.2 million Americans over the age of 60 still saddled with $43 billion of student loan debt.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/-i-m-never-going-to-be-able-to-retire--134736593.html

Carson
02-21-2014, 09:23 PM
Maybe some bankers will just swell up and explode.

heavenlyboy34
02-21-2014, 09:40 PM
Meh, retirement's overrated anyway. It's just a nice name for 20-40 years of unemployment. I wouldn't retire unless I had an injury that prevented me from working at all.

Henry Rogue
02-21-2014, 09:57 PM
Two years ago, she decided to start over completely, going back to school for a Masters degree in social work at Yeshiva University in New York. Today, Eichengreen now 60, is living off of student loans and says it’s unlikely that she’ll be able to pay off her $200,000 student debt, which includes what she borrowed for her first Masters studies in broadcast management.

Why would you go two hundred thousand dollars in debt if you knew you couldn't pay it off? Does the job produce enough income to sustain and make payments?

oyarde
02-21-2014, 10:00 PM
Meh, retirement's overrated anyway. It's just a nice name for 20-40 years of unemployment. I wouldn't retire unless I had an injury that prevented me from working at all.

Yeah , but just keeping on working is not the same as owing student loans.She is in deep shit .

Origanalist
02-21-2014, 10:02 PM
going back to school for a Masters degree in social work

Are you ^&*(%$# kidding me?

heavenlyboy34
02-21-2014, 10:07 PM
Yeah , but just keeping on working is not the same as owing student loans.She is in deep shit .
True, uncle oyarde.

heavenlyboy34
02-21-2014, 10:09 PM
Are you ^&*(%$# kidding me?
Yes, kitty, people really do get worthless degrees like that and pay out the ass for the privelige. :eek:

Origanalist
02-21-2014, 10:13 PM
Yes, kitty, people really do get worthless degrees like that and pay out the ass for the privelige. :eek:

No sonny, she isn't going to pay that back.

Carson
02-21-2014, 10:19 PM
going back to school for a Masters degree in social work



Are you ^&*(%$# kidding me?



If it was a stock it would be a stock you could retire on.

Won't be long they will be the only ones working.

heavenlyboy34
02-21-2014, 10:20 PM
No sonny, she isn't going to pay that back.
Most likely. Which means she'll be a debt slave for life. Murica, fuck yeah.

ETA: I'm always amused when you call me "sonny", grandpapa. :D

heavenlyboy34
02-21-2014, 10:22 PM
[


QUOTE=Origanalist;5427667]Are you ^&*(%$# kidding me?

If it was a stock it would be a stock you could retire on.[/QUOTE]
Da fuq? :confused: Last time I checked average incomes, social work doesn't pay all that well.

Origanalist
02-21-2014, 10:24 PM
Most likely. Which means she'll be a debt slave for life. Murica, fuck yeah.

Yep, and throw the rest in the kitty.

RonPaulMall
02-21-2014, 10:39 PM
Why would you go two hundred thousand dollars in debt if you knew you couldn't pay it off? Does the job produce enough income to sustain and make payments?

If you couldn't possibly pay it off, why would you care? She can defer, defer, then sign up for the income based repayment plan and pay 15% of her discretionary income until she dies. The question is not why would she do it, the question is why the lender would do it. They'll be lucky to get back 10% of that 200 grand before she croaks. This is just an example of a college flat out robbing the government blind.

RJB
02-21-2014, 10:48 PM
In a true freemarket society, the bankers would go broke giving these unreturnable loans.

But since they lobbied congress, YOU, the tax payer pays them. They get multimillion dollar bonuses for their lobbying and are considered the poor mistreated hero.

And the irresponsible eternally indebted student with the absolutely worthless degree and years of government school brainwashing is the villain.

Seriously, the Magna Charta should be MANDATORY READING in High School! We wouldn't be in this mess with truly educated people.

Philhelm
02-21-2014, 10:51 PM
Why would you go two hundred thousand dollars in debt if you knew you couldn't pay it off? Does the job produce enough income to sustain and make payments?

Knowing that she'll never repay the loan essentially means that she ended up with "free" money. There's no mystery there. The real question is why would anyone in their right mind lend the money to her?

I<3Liberty
02-21-2014, 11:04 PM
Social work isn't that difficult. There are no difficult math or science classes and a lot of the material overlaps (I know someone that just became a social worker.) You could get a Bachelor's degree in 2-3 years (depending on whether you take coursework over the summer) at a community college or less expensive college and graduate debt free. I know a social worker that is making like $35,000 a year which isn't bad considering she truly loves her job and isn't in debt.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
02-21-2014, 11:30 PM
Wouldn't all the free government goods these days make most of us social workers?

tod evans
02-22-2014, 04:03 AM
Yes, kitty, people really do get worthless degrees like that and pay out the ass for the privelige. :eek:

Actually you and I pay out the ass for her privilege....:mad:

frodus24
02-22-2014, 05:08 AM
We discussed these types of situations last week at our financial aid conference. College financial aid administrators encourage this shit!!! Remember...everyone is ENTITLED to whatever they want in this country/sarcasm! The lender is the federal government. The taxpayer gets fucked!

kcchiefs6465
02-22-2014, 08:45 AM
We discussed these types of situations last week at our financial aid conference. College financial aid administrators encourage this shit!!! Remember...everyone is ENTITLED to whatever they want in this country/sarcasm! The lender is the federal government. The taxpayer gets fucked!
Michelle Obama encourages this activity.

An entire generation of kids forever indebted to the government.

69360
02-22-2014, 09:45 AM
This will be what all the lefty obama voting hipster kids do when SS is insolvent when they get old. Get a 6 figure loan and go for a degree in basket weaving when they turn 65.

Anti Federalist
02-22-2014, 10:00 AM
Knowing that she'll never repay the loan essentially means that she ended up with "free" money. There's no mystery there. The real question is why would anyone in their right mind lend the money to her?

In the end...you lent her the money...so did I.

Student loans are government secured, AFAIK.

Which means, in the end, Mr. Bankster gets paid.

With our money.

Pericles
02-22-2014, 10:35 AM
In the end...you lent her the money...so did I.

Student loans are government secured, AFAIK.

Which means, in the end, Mr. Bankster gets paid.

With our money.
like the S&L guys figured out back in the 1980s - the best way to rob a bank is to own one.

Ender
02-22-2014, 10:47 AM
We discussed these types of situations last week at our financial aid conference. College financial aid administrators encourage this shit!!! Remember...everyone is ENTITLED to whatever they want in this country/sarcasm! The lender is the federal government. The taxpayer gets fucked!

Well, Boo. Hoo.

If she was collecting welfare and eating fast foods, everyone on the forum would be screaming.

At least she is trying to improve her life in the only way she knows how-

We all live in The Matrix- all of us 1000%. When you figure a way to overcome that and start educating people on how to escape the system, then things may start to change.

In the meantime, I see no advantages of complaining when people try to improve their situation in the only ways they have available to them.

The answer is to dissolve The Matrix.

tod evans
02-22-2014, 10:54 AM
Well, Boo. Hoo.

If she was collecting welfare and eating fast foods, everyone on the forum would be screaming.

At least she is trying to improve her life in the only way she knows how-

We all live in The Matrix- all of us 1000%. When you figure a way to overcome that and start educating people on how to escape the system, then things may start to change.

In the meantime, I see no advantages of complaining when people try to improve their situation in the only ways they have available to them.

The answer is to dissolve The Matrix.

This is utter bullshit!

Every person over the age of 8 knows that responsible people pay for what they get.

"Improving" herself on my dime ain't gonna cut it any more than sitting at home and breeding on my dime.

If this twit needs more education to earn a living then she should save her money and pay for it as she goes....

At 60 years old she should have some marketable skills even if it's hookin' on the corner..:mad:

oyarde
02-22-2014, 11:55 AM
Worse case scenario @ 60 , only debt you have is a mortgage . So you take your 401K , unemployment , get by to 62 , take the social security , take whatever part time work you can find and you are fine .You pay cash for your house payment , property tax , ins, utilites , food etc None of that happens if you owe a few hundred a month on student loans.

Ender
02-22-2014, 11:59 AM
This is utter bullshit!

Every person over the age of 8 knows that responsible people pay for what they get.

"Improving" herself on my dime ain't gonna cut it any more than sitting at home and breeding on my dime.

If this twit needs more education to earn a living then she should save her money and pay for it as she goes....

At 60 years old she should have some marketable skills even if it's hookin' on the corner..:mad:

That's complete Matrix talk right there: The Great American Dream!

Save your money! Pay for it as you go! Work your ass off and then "retire" and die!

I HATE TO BREAK IT TO YOU, BUT: There IS NO MONEY.

There is only keystrokes on the FED's computers. YOU own NOTHING, no matter how hard you THINK you've worked. YOU are completely owned by the government and everything you THINK you have belongs to .gov.

Hopefully you are fully functional after you are 60.

VIDEODROME
02-22-2014, 12:13 PM
Yes, kitty, people really do get worthless degrees like that and pay out the ass for the privelige. :eek:

People are led to believe that is what employers want.

I'm not sure many employers HR even know what they want. All they know is they have a flood of applicants so they find an arbitrary way to raise the requirements. Maybe this even works for them, but than go figure some people actually go for these degrees to try and get these scarce jobs.

I mean what will people choose to do when all of their options suck?

VIDEODROME
02-22-2014, 12:20 PM
I am actually in a grey area myself.

I finished my Associates in IT Security and yes I used loans. I'm still having a hard time finding work in IT or even just a regular job. Based on a lot of IT job ads, I might be led to believe I could get a job with a Bachelors Degree.

Yeah right, I go 2 more years and find out I don't have enough experience. Do I try to go for a Masters or something?

These are tough questions and people can't find a good answer. So they double down and go for more education because they simply can't find any jobs.

I am still unemployed, but very reluctant to just jump in again for a Bachelors. I have one fall back last resort skill which is Truck driving. I still have my Class A CDL, but I'm sick of driving those big trucks in congested cities and the DOT Regulations are a pain in the ass.

Ender
02-22-2014, 12:41 PM
People are led to believe that is what employers want.

I'm not sure many employers HR even know what they want. All they know is they have a flood of applicants so they find an arbitrary way to raise the requirements. Maybe this even works for them, but than go figure some people actually go for these degrees to try and get these scarce jobs.

I mean what will people choose to do when all of their options suck?

Yep- you need a degree in something to get most jobs.

Only jobs in film or some of the arts still look for people that can "do the do" rather than have a diploma that says you sat in a seat for 4 years.

VIDEODROME
02-22-2014, 12:45 PM
I did sit there to through a bunch of Power Point lectures. I thought there was a severe lack of hands-on practical experience, which is of course what many IT employers claim to want.

I was actually told by a guy he didn't hire me because I lacked Computer Hardware repair experience. I guess looking at pictures of Motherboards doesn't cut it.

From what i've seen, college is a huge fail at teaching real industry skills. Employers complain they can't get good workers. Raise the requirements. Then people go for another 2 years of college bullshit sitting there for lectures. Maybe they get more fundamentals, but not real comprehensive experience.

..... okay end of rant lol.

RJB
02-22-2014, 12:53 PM
It's a hell of a racket. In the old days, you'd get apprentice wages for on-the-job training. But it's inhuman to pay below minimum wage.

Now we have people going into debt, learning 90% BS or "skills" that have no realistic applications in the field, and it's taught by failures in the field.

On top of this, then a few professions have you pay to do "internships." It's F----- all around.

CPUd
02-22-2014, 12:59 PM
I am actually in a grey area myself.

I finished my Associates in IT Security and yes I used loans. I'm still having a hard time finding work in IT or even just a regular job. Based on a lot of IT job ads, I might be led to believe I could get a job with a Bachelors Degree.

Yeah right, I go 2 more years and find out I don't have enough experience. Do I try to go for a Masters or something?

These are tough questions and people can't find a good answer. So they double down and go for more education because they simply can't find any jobs.

I am still unemployed, but very reluctant to just jump in again for a Bachelors. I have one fall back last resort skill which is Truck driving. I still have my Class A CDL, but I'm sick of driving those big trucks in congested cities and the DOT Regulations are a pain in the ass.

Try and find a startup who looks like they will be around for a year or 2. This is the only real chance most people have at getting a job from answering an ad. The pay will probably be shit, but 1) you won't have to deal with clueless HR people, 2) you get some experience 3) you will begin to establish good business relationships with others in the field. By the time you go looking again, you will already know who to reach out to.

Another way is if you are still involved with the school, go intern at one of the alphabet agencies who are always trolling around campus. HR types value a few months at one of those places over years of real experience in the field.

Anti Federalist
02-22-2014, 12:59 PM
I am still unemployed, but very reluctant to just jump in again for a Bachelors. I have one fall back last resort skill which is Truck driving. I still have my Class A CDL, but I'm sick of driving those big trucks in congested cities and the DOT Regulations are a pain in the ass.

Got a HAZMAT endorsement?

You're in MI right?

I bet you could find local work, driving an oil/propane truck.

heavenlyboy34
02-22-2014, 01:00 PM
Yep- you need a degree in something to get most jobs.

Only jobs in film or some of the arts still look for people that can "do the do" rather than have a diploma that says you sat in a seat for 4 years.
Trades and crafts are highly under-rated. If you learn a difficult trade like welding, you're almost guaranteed a significantly higher than median income. (I almost became a welder because I was an ace welder in high school, but a number of unfortunate circumstances forced me out :( ) I suppose the problem with this is that trades require actual physical labor, which many Americans seem to be allergic to.

oyarde
02-22-2014, 01:00 PM
That's complete Matrix talk right there: The Great American Dream!

Save your money! Pay for it as you go! Work your ass off and then "retire" and die!

I HATE TO BREAK IT TO YOU, BUT: There IS NO MONEY.

There is only keystrokes on the FED's computers. YOU own NOTHING, no matter how hard you THINK you've worked. YOU are completely owned by the government and everything you THINK you have belongs to .gov.

Hopefully you are fully functional after you are 60.At 60 you should have some money that is not paper money of the Empires.Lots of woman do too without thinking about it .There is alot of gold and silver jewelry out there and if you are that age , when you were younger it was common and not ultra expensive .

mad cow
02-22-2014, 01:04 PM
Yep- you need a degree in something to get most jobs.

Only jobs in film or some of the arts still look for people that can "do the do" rather than have a diploma that says you sat in a seat for 4 years.

Even today,more people with jobs never graduated from college than those that did.

I have an eighth grade education and worked my whole life without a job in films or the arts.

I am over 60 and fully functional.

oyarde
02-22-2014, 01:10 PM
Even today,more people with jobs never graduated from college than those that did.

I have an eighth grade education and worked my whole life without a job in films or the arts.

I am over 60 and fully functional.I was blessed with goodhealth too, makes it easier :) , no excuse not to work every day , lol.

VIDEODROME
02-22-2014, 01:13 PM
Trades and crafts are highly under-rated. If you learn a difficult trade like welding, you're almost guaranteed a significantly higher than median income. (I almost became a welder because I was an ace welder in high school, but a number of unfortunate circumstances forced me out :( ) I suppose the problem with this is that trades require actual physical labor, which many Americans seem to be allergic to.

A few years ago, I went to an Adult Ed. center and took a welding course to try and get work that way. I was not "Experienced" beyond that one class though and it didn't seem like employers wanted to give me a chance.

Mixed in with that though, I faced some ignorant Staffing Firms that were in the way. Lots of office people who did not understand welding or fabrication. I showed up to one place for a Test Weld and they didn't have any scrap metal for us noobs to do a demo. I drove an hour just to get there to. Fucking HR.

It seems like I would've had to just buy my own Wire Welder to practice up and work out of my garage or something, That's risky because while I took a class, I still had very Novice skills. I could have been taking the initiative to create my own work, but doing less than optimal welds.

VIDEODROME
02-22-2014, 01:18 PM
Got a HAZMAT endorsement?

You're in MI right?

I bet you could find local work, driving an oil/propane truck.

I've been moving around a lot and haven't updated my location. I flee'd from Michigan. I'm now near Birmingham, AL.

I did have Hazmat, but I let it lapse during college lol. I started to consider Hazmat a liability and DOT is all over your ass.

I applied to Meter Reader which I thought would be a sweet job but they never called me.

I have been exploring a strange type of shipping called Hotshotting, but I'm not sure if the rewards are worth the risk.

Anyway, if I did go back to HazMat, I'd want to change my screen name to Ka-Boom.

VIDEODROME
02-22-2014, 01:26 PM
no excuse not to work every day , lol.

If I was "retired", it would be nice to break away from having a Job and a Boss. That is the major difference.

I would still "work" in a recreational sense like a serious hobby. My dad is retired and does wood working when he's not renovating the house. They just moved to a new place and he got bored so he is redoing the bathroom tile.


The ideal retirement for me would be to have a research lab. I'm serious. No job and more free time? I would pour into research as a wannabe Edison.

Or a simpler alternative would be spending retired time as a writer. I would have a gym membership though so I don't spend to much idle time sitting on my ass. Or as and old guy, I could see trying Tai Chi. But it would be fun and keep me engaged in the world writing or blogging.

heavenlyboy34
02-22-2014, 01:26 PM
A few years ago, I went to an Adult Ed. center and took a welding course to try and get work that way. I was not "Experienced" beyond that one class though and it didn't seem like employers wanted to give me a chance.

Mixed in with that though, I faced some ignorant Staffing Firms that were in the way. Lots of office people who did not understand welding or fabrication. I showed up to one place for a Test Weld and they didn't have any scrap metal for us noobs to do a demo. I drove an hour just to get there to. Fucking HR.

It seems like I would've had to just buy my own Wire Welder to practice up and work out of my garage or something, That's risky because while I took a class, I still had very Novice skills. I could have been taking the initiative to create my own work, but doing less than optimal welds.
To get work as a welder, you'll want to be familiar with MIG, TIG, and stick welding, minimum. (Oxyacetylene welding and cutting are foundational skills) If youwant to get your skills up to par, just get some scrap steel and aluminum (the latter requires aluminum rod, FYI-steel is fail for aluminum fabrication) and practice in your garage. Generally, all you do in a welding class is learn the fundamentals-running a bead, welding various angled joints, welding from above, vertical and overhead, etc. You can learn that in your backyard (assuming you know what a good weld is supposed to look like). Perhaps a local community college offers journeyman/apprentice type opportunities as well. :)

VIDEODROME
02-22-2014, 01:35 PM
To get work as a welder, you'll want to be familiar with MIG, TIG, and stick welding, minimum. (Oxyacetylene welding and cutting are foundational skills) If youwant to get your skills up to par, just get some scrap steel and aluminum (the latter requires aluminum rod, FYI-steel is fail for aluminum fabrication) and practice in your garage. Generally, all you do in a welding class is learn the fundamentals-running a bead, welding various angled joints, welding from above, vertical and overhead, etc. You can learn that in your backyard (assuming you know what a good weld is supposed to look like). Perhaps a local community college offers journeyman/apprentice type opportunities as well. :)

Well... I was in a rural area at the time. There weren't many options for training and most welding places were small shops trying to catch fringe jobs from other industries with very standardized wire welding.

TIG or stick welding seemed like a very specialized thing few people did. Anyway, I'm not sure I have the money to buy a quality wire welder to practice. My dad had one, but it was low power and not even close to the one I used in class.

tod evans
02-22-2014, 02:14 PM
That's complete Matrix talk right there: The Great American Dream!

Save your money! Pay for it as you go! Work your ass off and then "retire" and die!

I HATE TO BREAK IT TO YOU, BUT: There IS NO MONEY.

There is only keystrokes on the FED's computers. YOU own NOTHING, no matter how hard you THINK you've worked. YOU are completely owned by the government and everything you THINK you have belongs to .gov.

Hopefully you are fully functional after you are 60.

I take it you're referencing the movie "The Matrix" ? I've never watched it.......

I don't know how you live life but I make stuff, my "wealth" isn't in paper or 1's-n-0's and my legacy will be standing long after I'm dead...My son will inherent my tools, all the knowledge he wants to absorb and my dirt...

If that's "Work your ass off and then "retire" and die!" then I suppose I'm doing what you say...

There are quite a lot of "retirees" who make furniture for their hobby into their 80's and 90's I've been doing it as a vocation, so to me retirement is just another day...

The idea that one must suck governments tit to get ahead is repulsive to me and I can assure you my son will be raised with the same belief..........

LibForestPaul
02-22-2014, 03:31 PM
If it was a stock it would be a stock you could retire on.
Da fuq? :confused: Last time I checked average incomes, social work doesn't pay all that well.[/QUOTE]

They do not pay well. I checked into this career. However, they are usually government or quasi-government jobs. So they s/b secure, to an extent:(

69360
02-22-2014, 04:17 PM
I am actually in a grey area myself.

I finished my Associates in IT Security and yes I used loans. I'm still having a hard time finding work in IT or even just a regular job. Based on a lot of IT job ads, I might be led to believe I could get a job with a Bachelors Degree.

Yeah right, I go 2 more years and find out I don't have enough experience. Do I try to go for a Masters or something?

These are tough questions and people can't find a good answer. So they double down and go for more education because they simply can't find any jobs.

I am still unemployed, but very reluctant to just jump in again for a Bachelors. I have one fall back last resort skill which is Truck driving. I still have my Class A CDL, but I'm sick of driving those big trucks in congested cities and the DOT Regulations are a pain in the ass.

Maybe check out truck driving jobs in the oil fields in ND? I've read there is good money in it.

DamianTV
02-22-2014, 05:24 PM
There are a number of problems affecting the situation.

#1 - Colleges do not teach any form of hands on experience
#2 - Employers have had to make tremendous cutbacks already
#3 - Paying out the ass for more education that does not qualify an individual for employment just further destroys the individual
#4 - Employers are trying to merge job functions so you have HR people with both IT and Welding experience (example).
#5 - Workers and Employers are trapped in an ever expanding downward spiral of Less Work Available and Less Experience Gained.

The whole thing has become a gigantic trap. Normally when the economy takes a hit (assuming free market), people can go back to school and increase their education to make themselves more viable to perspective employers. You end up having a more skilled workforce. But it seems the exact opposite is happening here. There is such a lack of jobs out there in almost every field coupled with employers current disregard for employment qualifications that both the Employer and Worker feed back into the same problems. Workers cant get Jobs without Experience, yet cant get Experience without Jobs. For the employers, they cant get experienced workers without training, but wont provide training to have an experienced worker.

Paying for College isnt providing the skills needed. Most of us are aware that it is one massive money making scheme, and just like most other businesses, they produce the lowest possible quality good / service due to cost of quality at the highest possible rate. Yet, todays technology is so much more advanced than things were 50 years ago, that experience is paramount. Our society also has this misconception of looking down at people who do not have college degrees despite their skillset or expertise. We check for expensive pieces of paper instead of knowledge. We look at someone who just graduated with a PhD in "Underwater Basket Weaving" as being superior to someone who has 20 years in a Tradeskill like Plumming or Welding and think that the Plummer / Welder deserves minimum wage yet the "Doctor of Weaving Baskets" deserves at minimum 6 to 7 figures per year. With this attitude, some part of the system will eventually undermine the foundation of the economy itself.

I think the real solution here is a return to the concept of The Apprentice.

The idea of an apprentice in our new Tradeskill Professions (IT, programming) allows those who want to work in the field a means by which to both earn money and gain experience without the Debt Trap of College. Some professions will undoubtedly be better handled in College enviornments while others are best suited for Apprenticeships. I think what the Status Quo does not like about the idea of Apprenticeships is that they have less ability to control what the Apprentice learns on the job. Colleges will teach Keynsian Economics, but as an Apprentice, that person is taught what their teacher knows from experience to work, which for Economics would most likely be Austrian Economics. Schools are subsidized by Sales of sponsors, while Apprenticeships are subsidized by Success of the business. Rockefeller once said in the early twentith century that he wanted a society of Workers, not a society of Thinkers. He also contributed more money to the education system than the school system itself. Another fine example is Zuckerberg (facebook) throwing money at the education problem. This level of influence makes the schools respond by teaching people the exact opposite of what they need to be teaching, how to Think over how to Work. The inevitable outcome of this paradigm can lead to only one possible conclusion: The Educated Poor.

The Educated Poor are trapped by the same downward spiral as the uneducated that undermines everything. They are forever trapped by inescapable debt and still do not have the actual necessary skills to work in a field. The Educated Poor are taught to focus their skillsets on things that seem to be completely inapplicable in the job sector. It creates an inability to communicate the needed skills to employers for consideration of hiring, while the HR departments are taught to look for specifically mentioned skillsets that do not have anything to do with the job for which they are hiring. We place more focus on management and team effort skills than we do on math and science. For creative jobs, IE monster design (film), more focus is placed on applicants obedience rather than divergent thinking, which is really the prerequisite for creativity. In Law Enforcement, more focus is placed on hiring applicants that desire Authority over Justice. Law School teaches people how to create regulations that limit freedom even further as opposed to examining the system itself. Competition is valued over Cooperation in business. These are all things that result from a Non Free Market as opposed to a Free Market determining for itself what is needed to survive. Our society has become addicted to Debt as much as it is Education and is unable to realize the solution to the problem is not More Debt and More Education, but more Experience in promoting what is known to work. We are taught that the solution to being addicted to Crack Cocaine is to work harder so we can earn more so we can do MORE Crack Cocaine. It is absolutely no different than a way of thinking where we can have "more freedom" if only we had more "limitations of our freedom". Its a walking Oxymoron. Weapons of Peace. Solar Powered Flashlight. Honest Car Salesman. Dehydrated Water. The Educated Stupids. Yet we seem to not be able to identify the fallacy in our way of thinking as the root of the problem itself. Our way of thinking has become to look to the people that caused the problems for a way to fix the problems they themselves have caused. We look to our drug dealers for a means by which to treat our addictions to their drugs. And our drug is Debt.

Our Education Bubble is even larger than our Housing Bubble. So what happens when this bubble pops because people with student loans are no longer able to pay off these loans?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC_RYgkkmcM

Rudeman
02-22-2014, 06:08 PM
Just curious is there anything stopping that woman from getting worthless degree after worthless degree and just living off of student loans?

oyarde
02-22-2014, 06:25 PM
Just curious is there anything stopping that woman from getting worthless degree after worthless degree and just living off of student loans?
No , but they will take loan payments from her social security , which in a few more years will be common all across America.Then , people getting close to a couple K will be getting squat and living in homeless shelters , this will be very common in 30 years .I see them all the time , broke ass 30 somethings working at an easy job that does not pay a lot , rolling , deferring loans , how they live now will be fat to where they will live if they reach 60's in age .

heavenlyboy34
02-22-2014, 06:27 PM
Just curious is there anything stopping that woman from getting worthless degree after worthless degree and just living off of student loans?

As long as they're government loans (mohela, etc), no-AFAIK. Every month my bill is $0.00. Interest still accrues on the principal, though.

PaulConventionWV
02-22-2014, 06:44 PM
Meh, retirement's overrated anyway. It's just a nice name for 20-40 years of unemployment. I wouldn't retire unless I had an injury that prevented me from working at all.

Being unemployed isn't all that bad if you have the money for it, though. My grandfather retired at 55 and he and grandma seem to enjoy it.

PaulConventionWV
02-22-2014, 06:48 PM
Yeah , but just keeping on working is not the same as owing student loans.She is in deep shit .

Maybe she figured, since she wouldn't have to pay it all off before she died, it would be like a big discount.

Win-win, right?

aGameOfThrones
02-22-2014, 07:15 PM
No , but they will take loan payments from her social security , which in a few more years will be common all across America.Then , people getting close to a couple K will be getting squat and living in homeless shelters , this will be very common in 30 years .I see them all the time , broke ass 30 somethings working at an easy job that does not pay a lot , rolling , deferring loans , how they live now will be fat to where they will live if they reach 60's in age .

Sorry, but those jobs will be $20 an hour jobs pretty soon. Praise be to Obama!

Ender
02-22-2014, 07:18 PM
I take it you're referencing the movie "The Matrix" ? I've never watched it.......

I don't know how you live life but I make stuff, my "wealth" isn't in paper or 1's-n-0's and my legacy will be standing long after I'm dead...My son will inherent my tools, all the knowledge he wants to absorb and my dirt...

If that's "Work your ass off and then "retire" and die!" then I suppose I'm doing what you say...

There are quite a lot of "retirees" who make furniture for their hobby into their 80's and 90's I've been doing it as a vocation, so to me retirement is just another day...

The idea that one must suck governments tit to get ahead is repulsive to me and I can assure you my son will be raised with the same belief..........

I am a Minister under a Vow of Poverty. I help the poor and needy as well as kids and youth and I also "make stuff'. ;) I am also responsible for the finances of the Ministry to make sure that all our responsibilities are taken care of. There is no huge church supporting our efforts.

The whole system belongs to the government- if you are paying insurance, social security, paying for credit cards, property, etc, you are under the government. If you don't believe me, just stop paying your property taxes and the real owner will show up. These student loans are no different than SS- just called a different name.

This woman probably believes she is bettering herself and will help the community; she was born in the mid- 1950's and was a teen in the 70's. What she is doing will seem laudable and a huge step to her peers. She knows no other world than this.

Watch The Matrix.

This is the most important film made in decades that shows the world, that we all accept as "truth", as it really is.

DamianTV
02-22-2014, 07:43 PM
Just curious is there anything stopping that woman from getting worthless degree after worthless degree and just living off of student loans?

Id say solution is get Govt out of the student loan business. Bank loans have limits. They wont print up ten trillion for one student to get useless degrees if they dont expect to see a return on their investment. Govt intervention has caused the costs of tuition to go up up up due to the 90/10 rule and only exaccerbates the problem. Govt subsidies prevent Free Market solutions. Unfortunately, the ability of the Govt to just "print money" is what removed the limits of the woman getting worthless degree after worthless degree.

Career Student.