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Anti Federalist
02-19-2014, 11:14 PM
As frequent critic of Wal Marx and a big fan of Mike Rowe, I say the criticism is unfounded.

Good for Mike and I hope this succeeds.

"I Make America" initiative: http://www.imakeamerica.com/page.asp?content=startpage&g=makeamerica

Mike Rowe WORKS Foundation: http://profoundlydisconnected.com/foundation/


Mike Rowe Touches the "Third Rail" of Retailing: Walmart

Written by Bob Adelmann

http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/commentary/item/17606-mike-rowe-touches-the-third-rail-of-retailing-walmart

Mike Rowe, the popular host of Dirty Jobs on the Discovery Channel and frequent voice behind ads for Ford, Caterpillar, Motorola, and Lee’s Jeans, learned how thin his popularity is among some of his fans when he touched the "third rail" of retailing: Walmart.

In his voiceover of Walmart’s ad appearing during the Olympics, Rowe announces the retail giant’s plans to buy $250 billion worth of American merchandise over the next 10 years to put up for sale in its stores. What could be wrong with that?

Last Sunday Rowe spent most of his day responding to those who found lots of things wrong with that:



Kevin: Walmart is the last [company] I would ever think you would do anything for! Why?

Rowe: That’s easy. Walmart has committed to purchase 250 billion dollars of American made products over the next decade. In essence, that’s a purchase order made out to the USA for a quarter of a trillion dollars. That means dozens of American factories are going to reopen all over the country. Millions of dollars will pour straight into local economies, and hundreds of thousands of new manufacturing positions will need to be filled.... Isn’t this the kind of initiative we can all get behind?



Walmart, the largest retailer on the planet, with more than two million employees working in over 11,000 stores generating gross revenues approaching half a trillion dollars annually, got there by finding out what customers wanted to buy and then offering it to them at competitive prices. There is only one possible way Walmart can make such a promise: that American manufacturers will offer the best deals to Walmart’s customers. Rowe spent his Sunday afternoon articulating that simple fact to his naysayers:



Romeapple: It’s hypocrisy. Walmart’s products are all made in China. Walmart contributes to those empty [American] factories. What’s so “powerful” about an ad that makes absolutely no sense?

Rowe: That’s not entirely accurate, Romeapple. There’s a lot of merchandise currently in Walmart that’s manufactured right here in the USA.... But let’s assume ... that Walmart did get every single item from China. Wouldn’t you like to see that change? Watch the ad again. Walmart is promising to buy 250 billion dollars of American made stuff and put it on their shelves. Whatever else you might think of the company, can you really root against an initiative like that?

Let me ask it another way. Do you really think America has any hope of reinvigorating our manufacturing base without support from the biggest retailer in the world?



Rowe is behind the curve here, but makes the valid point that Walmart swings a large hammer. According to a report from the Institute for Supply Management released in January, American factory purchasing managers said new orders for goods were the highest since April 2010. Walmart is likely turning a simple fact of life — jobs are coming back to America — into a press release.

But some of Rowe’s former fans aren’t buying it:



Pat: I am uneasy about trusting Walmart to do the right things to better serve this country and its people.

Rowe: They have to make good on it, because if they’re blowing smoke, their detractors will eat them alive. I believe this thing is going to happen.... Walmart is going to buy a quarter trillion dollars of American made goods in the next ten years and put those goods on their shelves. The only question is whether or not Americans will support that effort.

If they do, we just might be looking at a stimulus that actually stimulates something.



Rowe’s contrast of Walmart’s action with the federal government's talk is spot on. The government doesn’t have one single dime to spend on "stimulus" that it hasn’t forcibly taken from someone else. Walmart doesn’t have a dime that it didn’t earn by offering a customer, via the free market in an unforced transaction, a better deal.

But Walmart is greedy, rapacious, self-serving, evil, etc., etc. Rowe’s response to that canard could have come right out of Henry Hazlitt’s Economics in One Lesson:



Rose: I want "made in America" too but make you’re sure on the side of the WORKER not the corporate greed side ok Mike? Love ya.

Rowe: Love ya back, Rose, but no thanks. You offer up a false and dangerous choice. The world is bigger than “Workers vs. Bosses,” and so is this campaign. Remember, Walmart thrives because a majority of Americans like to shop there. Like Apple, Discovery, Ford, and Facebook, Walmart does not exist for the purpose of employing people. No successful company does. Walmart’s first order of business is to serve their customer. Ultimately, the customer calls the shots. Not management. Not labor. Jobs are just a happy consequence of that success.



Former fan Sean accused Rowe of selling out to the evil empire:



Sean: I thought you were good person. But I just saw your AD that WAL-MART paid for. You’re a corporate suck, Rowe.

Rowe: Well hi there, Sean. From “good person” to corporate suck in 60 seconds! That’s gotta be a record! Let me explain something. Better sit down, as the truth may shock you. Ready? I make my living on commercial television. Not television. COMMERCIAL television.

That means I appear in television shows with commercials, paid for by corporations. I also produce television shows with commercials, paid for by corporations. I sometimes narrate television shows with commercials, paid for by corporations. And occasionally, I appear in the television commercials themselves, also paid for by corporations.

No matter what your job is Sean, if you work in commercial television, the money all flows from the same place. And no — it’s not the advertisers or the corporations that pay the bills. It’s you, Sean. The viewer. Just like the customer in a Walmart, the viewer on the sofa programs the airwaves by deciding what to watch and what to buy. In other words, you’re the boss.



Then Rowe stepped out of his role as kindly father explaining how the world works to his young naïve son, and scolded Sean (with tongue in cheek) for being part of the problem with Walmart and with any company successfully providing goods and services to its customers:



Rowe: Don’t get me wrong — I would never imply that your decision to watch a Corporate Spectacle like the International Olympic Games on a Global Network owned by one of the largest Conglomerates on Planet Earth makes you a “corporate suck.”

But I might wonder — given the purity of your own position — why you ever liked me in the first place?



Rowe then touches a sensitive issue: Part of the reason the employment rate is so low is not because employers aren’t hiring. They’re trying to hire but they can’t find qualified people who are willing to work. Here’s Rowe on that:



I know that the labor participation rate is at historic lows. I know that millions are out of work. But I also know that I’ve seen Help Wanted signs in all 50 states. Even at the height of the recession, the employers I met on Dirty Jobs were all hiring. They still are. And they all told me the same thing — the biggest challenge of running a business was finding people who were willing to learn a new skill and work hard.



As his Sunday wore on, Rowe became less forgiving in his responses, especially to those who weren’t buying his argument. He heard back from Sean:



Sean: [You] should have never done this ad due to the fact it came from Walmart. I like the message, but Walmart is one of the reasons a lot of manufacturing was lost in the United States....

Rowe: Step back for a minute. Look at what’s happening here. Walmart has just promised to do something you claim to want them to do. How do you react? Do you encourage them? Do you support them?

No. You hold fast to the party line. You lash out. Our country is falling apart around us, and you criticize me. For what? For doing a voiceover on a commercial that celebrates the dignity of hard work? I realize you’d prefer it if Costco was pushing this campaign forward, but guess what — they’re not.




Rowe is assuming here that Sean knows that Costco has supported Democrats more than 96 percent of the time, while the hated Walmart has supported Republicans 67 percent of the time. But Rowe wasn’t finished with Sean:



Rowe: Seriously Sean, do you and all the other detractors really want to see this campaign fail because it’s coming from a retailer whose policies you don’t approve of? Do us all a favor — try to get over it. Try to get over your disappointment with me. Try to get over your disappointment with Walmart. Try to get past your issues with the messenger, and take another look at the message:

A quarter trillion dollar commitment to American made products. 250,000 new jobs.

Really — what’s not to like?



Thanks for the lesson in how the real world works, Mike Rowe. Thanks for touching the third rail and creating the opportunity to promote the message of the free market that the mainstream media loves to ignore and that so many get wrong.

donnay
02-19-2014, 11:24 PM
I just love Mike Rowe! But, I love you ^^^ more honey. :D

CaseyJones
02-20-2014, 12:08 AM
lol I hope he runs for office some day

HOLLYWOOD
02-20-2014, 12:13 AM
AS Bill Gates and Microsoft were to high tech MONOPOLY

Wal☆Mart is to the RETAIL SALES MONOPOLY

They stole ideas, destroyed businesses, used bribed government as their Mafioso strong-arm lieutenant.

Now that Wal☆Mart has driven all U.S. manufacturing/production out of the country, and mom-pop/regional retail businesses into bankruptcy or closure ... NOW that Wal☆Mart has a monopoly and owns Washington DC to enforce their business model, the new campaign to American Boobus is, they're going to buy American to sell?

FUCK WAL☭MART

PS: Wal☭Mart IT management are downright egotistical assholes

Occam's Banana
02-20-2014, 12:21 AM
Touching third rails is a dirty job ... I wanna be Mike Rowe when I grow up. *man-crush*

MIke Rowe is rara avis: a "celebrity" who says things brainfully useful & important (as opposed to brainlessly trendy & hip).

And for those who missed it the first time it was posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzKzu86Agg0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzKzu86Agg0

Ender
02-20-2014, 12:34 AM
AS Bill Gates and Microsoft were to high tech MONOPOLY

Wal☆Mart is to the RETAIL SALES MONOPOLY

They stole ideas, destroyed businesses, used bribed government as their Mafioso strong-arm lieutenant.

Now that Wal☆Mart has driven all U.S. manufacturing/production out of the country, and mom-pop/regional retail businesses into bankruptcy or closure ... NOW that Wal☆Mart has a monopoly and owns Washington DC to enforce their business model, the new campaign to American Boobus is, they're going to buy American to sell?

FUCK WAL☭MART

PS: Wal☭Mart IT management are downright egotistical assholes

That's BS. Quit spouting the union lies because Walmart won't unionize.

It is government infringement on business that has closed down America's small businessmen and driven product manufacturing to China/India/whatever.

Get the gov out of business and watch the resurgence of industry.

Austrian Econ Disciple
02-20-2014, 03:13 AM
The economic nationalism just oozes off the page. Let's just wait and see when people have to start paying more for the same products just because 'USA'.

Demigod
02-20-2014, 04:10 AM
Walmart, the largest retailer on the planet, with more than two million employees working in over 11,000 stores generating gross revenues approaching half a trillion dollars annually, got there by finding out what customers wanted to buy and then offering it to them at competitive prices. There is only one possible way Walmart can make such a promise: that American manufacturers will offer the best deals to Walmart’s customers. Rowe spent his Sunday afternoon articulating that simple fact to his naysayers:



Not true most of the time people don't buy the best product but what is perceived as the best product.For day to day products shelf placement is probably more important than the quality of the product.Big companies can buy their products good positioning while the small companies get the lower shelf's.For example take your beer industry there are thousands of good beers out there yet most of the USA chooses to drink light-piss.

In Germany ( and many other countries ) retailers sell German products first,it doesn't matter how good they are.

WM_in_MO
02-20-2014, 06:48 AM
I don't think beer is a fair comparison... I don't like the mass-produces junk but I do prefer a light beer.

That being said I know the first thing I look at is price, the second thing I look at is reviews.

Honestly I hardly ever look at an items country of origin. I don't care where it was made as long as the product is that perfect balance of quality and cost.

Anti Federalist
02-20-2014, 08:07 AM
The economic nationalism just oozes off the page. Let's just wait and see when people have to start paying more for the same products just because 'USA'.

So, a privately arranged agreement to source items manufactured here, isn't any good either, huh?

Look, I'm no fan of the regime in the District of Calamity either.

But there is more to 'Murica, than the government.

As much as I bash Boobus, he's still all our neighbors and family.

You keep pushing Boobus out of work and onto the dole, and, when the dole runs out, as we all know it will, then Boobus will revolt.

He will revolt in the manner of the Bolshevik.

I can see no reason to oppose a non governmental initiative to try and get Boobus back to work and off the dole, other than blind, knee jerk hatred of, you know, 'Murika.

Intoxiklown
02-20-2014, 08:09 AM
"I totally support capitalism, and letting then markets decide who wins and loses. Unless it's Wal-Mart. Then it's my sacred duty as a capitalist to demand they be regulated and hated."

LOL

This is what some of the people (both on that article, and here...sadly) sound like.

donnay
02-20-2014, 08:10 AM
AS Bill Gates and Microsoft were to high tech MONOPOLY

Wal☆Mart is to the RETAIL SALES MONOPOLY

They stole ideas, destroyed businesses, used bribed government as their Mafioso strong-arm lieutenant.

Now that Wal☆Mart has driven all U.S. manufacturing/production out of the country, and mom-pop/regional retail businesses into bankruptcy or closure ... NOW that Wal☆Mart has a monopoly and owns Washington DC to enforce their business model, the new campaign to American Boobus is, they're going to buy American to sell?

FUCK WAL☭MART

PS: Wal☭Mart IT management are downright egotistical assholes

As much as I like Mike Rowe's arguments about pushing "Made in America," I will agree Walmart has a lot of shady history--from strong-arming Mom and Pops to inside political favors. One of the very reasons I do not shop there.

Here's a flashback:

Blood Rose: The Wal-Mart, Arkansas, Clinton Corruption Connection
http://www.allrightmagazine.com/politics/blood-rose-the-wal-mart-arkansas-clinton-corrution-connection-971/

pcosmar
02-20-2014, 08:29 AM
More Walmart bashing (oh goodie)


Romeapple: It’s hypocrisy. Walmart’s products are all made in China.

False.. and I do not know why this BULLSHIT LIE is so often repeated.

I am in Walmart nearly every day. I drive my wife to work and pick he up.
When I am waiting I wander the isles and look at stuff.

Yes,,some stuff is made in China,, Some from Honduras, Romania, Mexico, AND YES, The USA.
They are a retailer. And a successful one.

We also have a Kmart and a Sears in town. Kmart sells mostly the same products... The American flags in KMart are made in China.
Of course their selection and their service suck really bad,, and the store is nearly empty..

But if you want to walk quietly through shelves of stuff,, Kmart is there. (with the same stuff)

I am no fan of Corporations, (or of incorporating at all),, but shit,, why the hate?

The local one puts as much Michigan grown produce on the shelf as they can get. And ships from elsewhere around the country,,, as well as from around the world.
I can walk through an see "Made in USA" on a lot of products that I have no money to buy.

Want to see more,, open some damn manufacturing plants in the US and fill the shelves.

Compete damn it.

Seraphim
02-20-2014, 08:33 AM
Best. Comment. Ever;

Rowe: Love ya back, Rose, but no thanks. You offer up a false and dangerous choice. The world is bigger than “Workers vs. Bosses,” and so is this campaign. Remember, Walmart thrives because a majority of Americans like to shop there. Like Apple, Discovery, Ford, and Facebook, Walmart does not exist for the purpose of employing people. No successful company does. Walmart’s first order of business is to serve their customer. Ultimately, the customer calls the shots. Not management. Not labor. Jobs are just a happy consequence of that success.

erowe1
02-20-2014, 08:35 AM
I like Mike Rowe. He seems to be a good guy. He's entertaining, and he has a great name.

But his answers to those questions don't make any sense. Who cares what geographical location something that some store sells was made?

ETA: I agree with Seraphim too. That answer he gave was great.

thoughtomator
02-20-2014, 08:36 AM
Walmart doesn’t have a dime that it didn’t earn by offering a customer, via the free market in an unforced transaction, a better deal.

The author clearly doesn't have the slightest clue as to what Walmart's actual business model is. Like most of today's large companies, its business is gaming government financial incentives. The free market doesn't enter into it.

ghengis86
02-20-2014, 08:39 AM
Rowe had an excellent Tube on the loss of respect and dignity Americans once had for skilled labor and the trades. I'll see if I can find it. The gist being college isn't right for everyone, the skilled trades are respectable jobs to make a good living, and we need to value hard work. I actually agree with him on a lot of 'work' related issues. I'm not pro-unions, but I am pro-skilled trades (and currently it's the union run schools do a lot of that training). In fact, I strongly support the unions use as a model; work in your field while you learn a new, specialized skill.

Wal-Mart is the symptom of NWO globalizing, fascism/corpratism, unsound money and government wealth confiscation and the rampant consumerism and 'disposable' lifestyle that Americans value. There's no one single solution to the WalMart problems, but I think Rowe is doing what he thinks is best to address some of the issues.

Good on him for that! At least he's not a keyboard-warrior and is doing what he can to affect positive change!

erowe1
02-20-2014, 08:40 AM
The author clearly doesn't have the slightest clue as to what Walmart's actual business model is. Like most of today's large companies, its business is gaming government financial incentives. The free market doesn't enter into it.

The market is heavily regulated. But the point of the comment you object to stands. The kinds of "financial incentives" you probably mean are things like ways to avoid paying taxes. They still have to earn that money that they're not paying in taxes (and that they shouldn't under any circumstances ever have to pay in anyway) by providing products that other people think are worth more to them than the money they have to give up for them.

Anti Federalist
02-20-2014, 08:49 AM
But his answers to those questions don't make any sense. Who cares what geographical location something that some store sells was made?

When your neighbor has a job and can keep a roof over his head, he is less likely to rob you, either directly or via government.

erowe1
02-20-2014, 08:52 AM
When your neighbor has a job and can keep a roof over his head, he is less likely to rob you, either directly or via government.

Anything that impedes trade with people elsewhere in the world makes my neighbor's john prospects worse, not better.

Anti Federalist
02-20-2014, 08:52 AM
Want to see more,, open some damn manufacturing plants in the US and fill the shelves.

And that is precisely what this initiative is prepared to do.

With no government involvement.

WM_in_MO
02-20-2014, 08:53 AM
Rowe had an excellent Tube on the loss of respect and dignity Americans once had for skilled labor and the trades. I'll see if I can find it. The gist being college isn't right for everyone, the skilled trades are respectable jobs to make a good living, and we need to value hard work. I actually agree with him on a lot of 'work' related issues. I'm not pro-unions, but I am pro-skilled trades (and currently it's the union run schools do a lot of that training). In fact, I strongly support the unions use as a model; work in your field while you learn a new, specialized skill.

Wal-Mart is the symptom of NWO globalizing, fascism/corpratism, unsound money and government wealth confiscation and the rampant consumerism and 'disposable' lifestyle that Americans value. There's no one single solution to the WalMart problems, but I think Rowe is doing what he thinks is best to address some of the issues.

Good on him for that! At least he's not a keyboard-warrior and is doing what he can to affect positive change!


Here is the article you are seeking I believe:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cm/popularmechanics/images/Fw/mike-rowe-education-02-0813-de.jpg

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/why-work-smart-not-hard-is-the-worst-advice-in-the-world-15805614




(http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/why-work-smart-not-hard-is-the-worst-advice-in-the-world-15805614)

Anti Federalist
02-20-2014, 08:54 AM
Anything that impedes trade with people elsewhere in the world makes my neighbor's john prospects worse, not better.

How does this proposal "impede trade"?

thoughtomator
02-20-2014, 08:57 AM
The market is heavily regulated. But the point of the comment you object to stands. The kinds of "financial incentives" you probably mean are things like ways to avoid paying taxes. They still have to earn that money that they're not paying in taxes (and that they shouldn't under any circumstances ever have to pay in anyway) by providing products that other people think are worth more to them than the money they have to give up for them.

I'm talking about things like the deliberate strategy to offload social costs to the taxpayer. Each Walmart store costs the taxpayer an average of $100k (that's per store) per year in Medicaid subsidies alone, never mind food stamps and all the other subsidies that make their wage scale possible. Without those subsidies I don't see how they operate at a market advantage.

erowe1
02-20-2014, 09:01 AM
How does this proposal "impede trade"?

It doesn't. It's a decision Walmart made for itself. And they'll have to deal with the consequences of it. If the American manufacturing they're trying to prop up actually has a comparative advantage over similar manufacturing that could be done elsewhere, then it will work out well for them, in which case they would have incentive to sell those American made products anyway without paying any attention to where they were made. If not, then they're fighting a losing fight that will ultimately hurt both them and the job prospects of my neighbor more than it will help. But there would be some consolation to my neighbor, since a competitor of Walmart's would be able to take advantage of that situation by selling cheap imported stuff without wasting money on American made stuff.

Seraphim
02-20-2014, 09:01 AM
Your comment is excellent. Irony? The below posted article was posted minutes ago on Zerohedge and it confirms EXACTLY what you said (government handouts drive Wal-Marts bottom line).

Wal-Mart released is quarterly earnings not long ago (and they were below expectations) and WAL-MART blamed it partially on...less government handouts to many of it's customers.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-20/walmart-misses-revenues-guides-below-consensus-blames-fewer-government-handouts-heal


I'm talking about things like the deliberate strategy to offload social costs to the taxpayer. Each Walmart store costs the taxpayer an average of $100k (that's per store) per year in Medicaid subsidies alone, never mind food stamps and all the other subsidies that make their wage scale possible. Without those subsidies I don't see how they operate at a market advantage.

erowe1
02-20-2014, 09:02 AM
I'm talking about things like the deliberate strategy to offload social costs to the taxpayer. Each Walmart store costs the taxpayer an average of $100k (that's per store) per year in Medicaid subsidies alone, never mind food stamps and all the other subsidies that make their wage scale possible. Without those subsidies I don't see how they operate at a market advantage.

I don't buy any of that. You're saying that if you make all those Walmart employees unemployed, then they'll actually get less Medicare and food stamps as unemployed people than they would as Walmart employees?

angelatc
02-20-2014, 09:05 AM
As frequent critic of Wal Marx and a big fan of Mike Rowe, I say the criticism is unfounded.

Good for Mike and I hope this succeeds.

.

Most of the people who criticize everything WalMart are just liberals, mad because the unions can't get in. The interviewer's response to this is evidence of that.

At least around here the people who criticize WalMart also crab about the bailouts to the automakers.

(And I don't understand why people call them WalMarx. They're not state-run, they don't get any perks and breaks that other big box stores don't.)

Anti Federalist
02-20-2014, 09:05 AM
That is bought with relief money stolen from you.

You don't buy shit, cheap, Chinese or otherwise, when you are out of work and broke.

Unless you are buying it with stolen money.


It doesn't. It's a decision Walmart made for itself. And they'll have to deal with the consequences of it. If the American manufacturing they're trying to prop up actually has a comparative advantage over similar manufacturing that could be done elsewhere, then it will work out well for them, in which case they would have incentive to see it anyway without paying any attention to where it was made. If not, then they're fighting a losing fight that will ultimately hurt both them and the job prospects of my neighbor more than it will help. But there would be some consolation to my neighbor, since a competitor of Walmart's would be able to take advantage of that situation by selling cheap imported stuff without wasting money on American made stuff.

Seraphim
02-20-2014, 09:05 AM
He did not say that at all.

He's actually right. See post #26.

WAL-MART admitted to exactly what he just said, around 9am THIS MORNING, upon releasing their quarterly earnings report.


I don't buy any of that. You're saying that if you make all those Walmart employees unemployed, then they'll actually get less Medicare and food stamps as unemployed people than they would as Walmart employees?

specsaregood
02-20-2014, 09:06 AM
I can see no reason to oppose a non governmental initiative to try and get Boobus back to work and off the dole, other than blind, knee jerk hatred of, you know, 'Murika.

That's exactly what it is and I pointed it out in another thread recently.

However, if walmart was serious I'd suggest they put a little American flag sticker next to every American product on their shelves. IIRC, they used to do that in the 80's and into the early 90's. Then it disappeared...

erowe1
02-20-2014, 09:08 AM
That is bought with relief money stolen from you.

You don't buy shit, cheap, Chinese or otherwise, when you are out of work and broke.

Unless you are buying it with stolen money.

Hence we should not want people to be out of work and broke.

Hence we should engage in as much trade as we find to be in our own best interests with people in China and everywhere else.

Anti Federalist
02-20-2014, 09:08 AM
(And I don't understand why people call them WalMarx. They're not state-run, they don't get any perks and breaks that other big box stores don't.)

I call them Wal Marx because they sourced much of their product supply from a Communist country, committed to making and selling us the rope to hang ourselves with, to paraphrase Comrade Lenin.

erowe1
02-20-2014, 09:09 AM
He did not say that at all.

He's actually right. See post #26.

If you don't think that's what he said, then you misread what he wrote. Post #26 is about something else.

But post #26 is misleading for its own reasons.

angelatc
02-20-2014, 09:09 AM
I'm talking about things like the deliberate strategy to offload social costs to the taxpayer. Each Walmart store costs the taxpayer an average of $100k (that's per store) per year in Medicaid subsidies alone, never mind food stamps and all the other subsidies that make their wage scale possible. Without those subsidies I don't see how they operate at a market advantage.

This is what the forums have become.

WaMart isn't the only employer that has employees that qualify for subsidies. Wages are a function of demand. Why should WalMart choose to raise costs when it doesn't have to? Even though it might make you feel warm and fuzzy, that's not how business is supposed to function.

belian78
02-20-2014, 09:10 AM
How does this proposal "impede trade"?
*My comments don't help the convo, so I'm deleting them.* I apologize to the boards.

Anti Federalist
02-20-2014, 09:12 AM
Hence we should not want people to be out of work and broke.

Hence we should engage in as much trade as we find to be in our own best interests with people in China and everywhere else.

So why, after 30 years of "free trade" are more people out of the workforce than ever before, middle class wages stagnant and young kids saddled with tens of thousands of dollars of college costs just to join the unemployment lines?

angelatc
02-20-2014, 09:13 AM
That's exactly what it is and I pointed it out in another thread recently.

However, if walmart was serious I'd suggest they put a little American flag sticker next to every American product on their shelves. IIRC, they used to do that in the 80's and into the early 90's. Then it disappeared...

Because they found out their customers wanted lower priced items. Despite all the caterwauling about WalMart not selling goods made in 'Merica (FUCK YEAH!), notice that no competitors have jumped in to fill that niche. There's only one reason for that - it isn't genuine demand. It's ideological noise.

Anti Federalist
02-20-2014, 09:17 AM
*My comments don't help the convo, so I'm deleting them.* I apologize to the boards.

I read them, and yeah, I know.

Like the globalized socialist Borg Hive will be a better alternative.

specsaregood
02-20-2014, 09:17 AM
Because they found out their customers wanted lower priced items. Despite all the caterwauling about WalMart not selling goods made in 'Merica (FUCK YEAH!), notice that no competitors have jumped in to fill that niche. There's only one reason for that - it isn't genuine demand. It's ideological noise.

Fair enough; but clearly things change if now walmart is promoting/pushing made in usa products. If they want this to succeed, I think the sticker thing would help.

WM_in_MO
02-20-2014, 09:18 AM
Your comment is excellent. Irony? The below posted article was posted minutes ago on Zerohedge

I couldn't read beyond that.

thoughtomator
02-20-2014, 09:22 AM
This is what the forums have become.

WaMart isn't the only employer that has employees that qualify for subsidies. Wages are a function of demand. Why should WalMart choose to raise costs when it doesn't have to? Even though it might make you feel warm and fuzzy, that's not how business is supposed to function.

Apparently "what the forums have become" is an apologia for state intervention and subsidies, and for those who play that game well. WalMart isn't the only one but it is far and away the worst offender, so any reform of the central planning/state interference economic model needs to address this company fairly early on.

pcosmar
02-20-2014, 09:26 AM
And that is precisely what this initiative is prepared to do.

With no government involvement.

looking forward to seeing shelves of Hemp slacks and Shirts,, made right here at a price I can afford.

erowe1
02-20-2014, 09:27 AM
So why, after 30 years of "free trade" are more people out of the workforce than ever before, middle class wages stagnant and young kids saddled with tens of thousands of dollars of college costs just to join the unemployment lines?

Over those 30 years the economy has mostly been a lot better than it is right now. Most of the worrisome changes that you mention have been around for a few years, not 30. And it was not generally better in the period of 60-30 years ago than it has been in the period of 0-30 years ago.

That stagnant middle class you see today is living large (http://reason.com/archives/2008/02/04/now-playing-at-reasontv-with-d) compared with the middle class 30 years ago.

donnay
02-20-2014, 09:29 AM
Most of the people who criticize everything WalMart are just liberals, mad because the unions can't get in.

That's funny because it was while Bill Clinton was the governor of Arkansas that he signed the "right to work" law which barred the unions. A big fat liberal.


In six years as a member of the Wal-Mart board of directors, between 1986 and 1992, Hillary Clinton remained silent as the world’s largest retailer waged a major campaign against labor unions seeking to represent store workers.

Clinton has been endorsed for president by more than a dozen unions, according to her campaign Web site, which omits any reference to her role at Wal-Mart in its detailed biography of her.

Wal-Mart’s anti-union efforts were headed by one of Clinton’s fellow board members, John Tate, a Wal-Mart executive vice president who also served on the board with Clinton for four of her six years.

Tate was fond of repeating, as he did at a managers meeting in 2004 after his retirement, what he said was his favorite phrase, “Labor unions are nothing but blood-sucking parasites living off the productive labor of people who work for a living.”


Throughout the 1980s, both Bill and Hillary Clinton nurtured relationships with Walton, a conservative Republican and by far Arkansas’ most influential businessman.

Among other things, Hillary Clinton sought Walton’s help in 1983 for Bill Clinton’s so-called Blue Ribbon Commission on Education, a major effort to improve Arkansas’ troubled public schools. The overhaul became a centerpiece of Clinton’s governorship.

And Wal-Mart’s Made in America campaign, which for years touted the company’s sales of American products in its stores, was launched after Bill Clinton persuaded Walton to help save 200 jobs at an Arkansas shirt manufacturing plant. The Made in America campaign has virtually vanished in recent years, as the company’s manufacturing has gradually moved overseas — another point of criticism by many Wal-Mart critics.

The Clintons also benefited financially from Wal-Mart. Hillary Clinton was paid $18,000 each year she served on the board, plus $1,500 for each meeting she attended. By 1993 she had accumulated at least $100,000 in Wal-Mart stock, according to Bill Clinton’s federal financial disclosure forms that year.

http://richardbrenneman.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/hillary-lobbies-in-india-for-ex-employer-wal-mart/

You really got to get out of the phony left/right paradigm.

erowe1
02-20-2014, 09:30 AM
Fair enough; but clearly things change if now walmart is promoting/pushing made in usa products. If they want this to succeed, I think the sticker thing would help.

That's a telling comment.

If it mattered to me where products were made, then I would hope that you were wrong about that. Because the real driver of success for this will be if the American-made products they sell are more attractive to consumers in price and quality on their own right regardless where they were made. If they can't pass that test, then stickers won't matter. And if they can pass it, then stickers still won't matter.

pcosmar
02-20-2014, 09:36 AM
I call them Wal Marx because they sourced much of their product supply from a Communist country, committed to making and selling us the rope to hang ourselves with, to paraphrase Comrade Lenin.

NO They don't.

They source them from sources. From Producers.

China just happens to be a huge source,, but products come from all over the world.
The wife opens boxes and stocks the shelves,, she sees the shipping labels. Several South American countries,, several Asian countries.
Some from Europe.

She deals with clothing mostly,, and the US Textile industry went elsewhere.. Due to two major issues,, Regulations and Unions.

The same reason that most other Manufacturing left.

Oh,, and one other point. China is not Communist. It never was despite rhetoric.
It is a Socialist oligarchy. And it is every bit as capitalist as the US ever was.

angelatc
02-20-2014, 09:39 AM
Fair enough; but clearly things change if now walmart is promoting/pushing made in usa products. If they want this to succeed, I think the sticker thing would help.

One thing about WalMart - they are second to none in knowing what their customers want, usually before their customers even know they want it. I believe firmly that they are indeed responding to a forecasted demand.

If they're wrong, they'll lose money and revamp their product lines They've been wrong before. They tried to go a little more upscale to attract a different bloc of customers during the recession and lost that bet.

The thing is that WalMart is no longer the cheapest game in town. They managed to drive prices down across the board, and I thank them for that, but there's a lower limit on how much you can cut margins. And now that the science of being WalMart (inventory management is key) is public knowledge, they have to change their game. They might not be able to do it and succeed. After all, A&P used to dominate the grocery sector in bigger percentage than WalMart gets. But the bigger you are, the harder you fall.

angelatc
02-20-2014, 09:47 AM
I call them Wal Marx because they sourced much of their product supply from a Communist country, committed to making and selling us the rope to hang ourselves with, to paraphrase Comrade Lenin.

But all companies do that. Go to Home Depot and try to buy American. LIke WalMart, they have some items with that flag sticker, but most of their stuff is made overseas.

And I think it's more accurate to say that WalMart buys most of it's merchandise from Asia. Granted, probably 70% is from China, but the clothing seems to come from a lot of smaller countrie over there.

Look - feel free to buy everything made in America. Go hire a seamstress to make your undies if that;s important to you. But I'm all about cheap prices. I don't want to pay some union arsehole $20 an hour plus perennial benefits to sit at a machine and sew in elastic bands.

Want to bring back tariffs on imports? Yep, me too. But not until the unions are quashed.

angelatc
02-20-2014, 09:51 AM
That's a telling comment.

If it mattered to me where products were made, then I would hope that you were wrong about that. Because the real driver of success for this will be if the American-made products they sell are more attractive to consumers in price and quality on their own right regardless where they were made. If they can't pass that test, then stickers won't matter. And if they can pass it, then stickers still won't matter.

The stickers don't matter to me. I was looking for a decent quality mailbox, and I intentionally looked at the American made version first. But it was plastic, while the made in China box was steel.

Sure, it was crappy, thin steel - but I like the "feel" of it better than the stupid plastic. And it was cheaper.

PaulConventionWV
02-20-2014, 09:53 AM
Wait a minute... there's this sentence:


Walmart doesn’t have a dime that it didn’t earn by offering a customer, via the free market in an unforced transaction, a better deal.

Now, hold on just one second... is this really true? Is there even any such thing as a free market? How can anyone believe that the government doesn't have its hand in possibly the biggest monopoly on earth? Do we actually know it to be true that they don't have a red cent, money or other help, from the government? I, for one, have a lot of difficulty believing that.

angelatc
02-20-2014, 09:55 AM
Apparently "what the forums have become" is an apologia for state intervention and subsidies, and for those who play that game well. WalMart isn't the only one but it is far and away the worst offender, so any reform of the central planning/state interference economic model needs to address this company fairly early on.

If you have to single out a single company as a target, your argument is flawed.

It is fine to use WalMart as an example, but hating them and demanding they change while giving other businesses doing exactly the same thing a free pass is not a free market argument. It's a liberal argument.

Heck, some poster here (I forget who) mentioned that her head exploded when she had to fill out an income verification form so her employee could continue to receive benefits. Happily, nobody read her a riot act, because we understand that to make her business as successful as possible she has to keep costs as low as possible. The government opts to help her do that by subsidizing the living expenses of her employee.

The problem is the government, not the employer or even the employee.

Anti Federalist
02-20-2014, 09:57 AM
NO They don't.

They source them from sources. From Producers.

China just happens to be a huge source,, but products come from all over the world.
The wife opens boxes and stocks the shelves,, she sees the shipping labels. Several South American countries,, several Asian countries.
Some from Europe.

Fair point...most textiles and clothing that I'm seeing is coming from Central/South America.


She deals with clothing mostly,, and the US Textile industry went elsewhere.. Due to two major issues,, Regulations and Unions.

The same reason that most other Manufacturing left.

Again, you'll get no argument from me on this.


Oh,, and one other point. China is not Communist. It never was despite rhetoric.
It is a Socialist oligarchy. And it is every bit as capitalist as the US ever was.

Chairman Mao and his regime was based on communist ideology.

China became a socialist market economy, or "socialism with Chinese characteristics" as they put it, only after those twin snakes, Kissinger and Nixon, handed our economy and currency to them in 1971.

Anti Federalist
02-20-2014, 10:01 AM
But all companies do that. Go to Home Depot and try to buy American. LIke WalMart, they have some items with that flag sticker, but most of their stuff is made overseas.

it was after some critical tools and electrical parts that failed in a catastrophic fashion, that were made in China and purchased at Home Depot, that I got started on this bugaboo, years ago now.

angelatc
02-20-2014, 10:05 AM
it was after some critical tools and electrical parts that failed in a catastrophic fashion, that were made in China and purchased at Home Depot, that I got started on this bugaboo, years ago now.

But sadly the American made products aren't necessarily a better quality. In some things I would rather spend as little as possible. Clothing, for example. I don't need my clothing to last in perpetuity. A year or two is fine.

But things that I want to last - electrical components is a good example - I'm willing to pay more for if the quality is superior. But lots of times that's not what I find when I see Made In America stickers. I see cheap crap that just costs a little more.

Anti Federalist
02-20-2014, 10:07 AM
More Walmart bashing (oh goodie)

Oh, and keep in mind, I'm not bashing them, I applaud what they are doing here.

specsaregood
02-20-2014, 10:14 AM
That's a telling comment.

If it mattered to me where products were made, then I would hope that you were wrong about that. Because the real driver of success for this will be if the American-made products they sell are more attractive to consumers in price and quality on their own right regardless where they were made. If they can't pass that test, then stickers won't matter. And if they can pass it, then stickers still won't matter.

It's just a matter of marketing. Many "better" products have failed due to poor marketing. If 3 products are similar enough, in quality and price then clearly identifying where they were made (not hidden on the box somewhere) can make a difference.

I knew enough when I went shopping for my washing machine that not all maytags were made in the US, and that all the models that were made in the US would have a made in the usa sticker underneath the lid. So I looked for the sticker.

Cabal
02-20-2014, 10:14 AM
Wait a minute... there's this sentence:



Now, hold on just one second... is this really true? Is there even any such thing as a free market? How can anyone believe that the government doesn't have its hand in possibly the biggest monopoly on earth? Do we actually know it to be true that they don't have a red cent, money or other help, from the government? I, for one, have a lot of difficulty believing that.

Even if you set aside all the regulations, legislation, and bureaucracies that interfere with the market, the fact remains that the State still controls the monetary system, which is the foundation of a market. So long as this remains true, one cannot accurately say a free market exists.

donnay
02-20-2014, 10:15 AM
But sadly the American made products aren't necessarily a better quality. In some things I would rather spend as little as possible. Clothing, for example. I don't need my clothing to last in perpetuity. A year or two is fine.

But things that I want to last - electrical components is a good example - I'm willing to pay more for if the quality is superior. But lots of times that's not what I find when I see Made In America stickers. I see cheap crap that just costs a little more.

Planned obsolescence--the disposable society.

pcosmar
02-20-2014, 10:17 AM
The stickers don't matter to me. I was looking for a decent quality mailbox, and I intentionally looked at the American made version first. But it was plastic, while the made in China box was steel.

Sure, it was crappy, thin steel - but I like the "feel" of it better than the stupid plastic. And it was cheaper.

Duh,, I have personally tested both.

That thin steel one is still surviving.

Though I would really like to build a 1/4 in Steel Steel box, and C-channel framework,, and maybe a 1/2 in Steel impact plate..

and lets see them destroy that,, :p

edit
Someone else had the same Idea.
good start,, but I had a bit more massive in mind.

http://www.ironanvildesigns.com/images/IM000108.JPG

angelatc
02-20-2014, 10:26 AM
Oh, and keep in mind, I'm not bashing them, I applaud what they are doing here.

Yes, but but before you get all carried away and go shopping, they also announced that they are looking at whether or not they should support raising the minimum wage.

That's how Mom & Pop stores really get squashed.

angelatc
02-20-2014, 10:30 AM
Duh,, I have personally tested both.

That thin steel one is still surviving.

Though I would really like to build a 1/4 in Steel Steel box, and C-channel framework,, and maybe a 1/2 in Steel impact plate..

and lets see them destroy that,, :p

edit
Someone else had the same Idea.
good start,, but I had a bit more massive in mind.

http://www.ironanvildesigns.com/images/IM000108.JPG


I'd soooooo love to have that, but about 2 or 3 times as big. Something I can put a lot of packages in. But I'm not even sure we would be allowed to have that. There are rules about mailbox sizes, comrade!

phill4paul
02-20-2014, 10:32 AM
Duh,, I have personally tested both.

That thin steel one is still surviving.

Though I would really like to build a 1/4 in Steel Steel box, and C-channel framework,, and maybe a 1/2 in Steel impact plate..

and lets see them destroy that,, :p

edit
Someone else had the same Idea.
good start,, but I had a bit more massive in mind.

http://www.ironanvildesigns.com/images/IM000108.JPG

Lol. When I was young there were kids that would drive up and down the road and hit the mailboxes with a baseball bat. After the second replacement my dad got 2 mailboxes. A large one and a smaller one that fit inside leaving about two inches of space between them. He then filled that space with cement. One morning we found a bat by the side of the road and a small ding on the mailbox. I imagine that shock went right down that young man's spine.

pcosmar
02-20-2014, 10:36 AM
Chairman Mao and his regime was based on communist ideology.


Yes,, Politicians say a lot of things.
and Obama is a Constitution scholar. :rolleyes:

Fabian Socialism (what exists here and elsewhere) has the same goals as the communist ideology.

Communism can absolutely not exist beyond philosophical masturbation,, but socialism can and does.

I get annoyed at Socialists (and others) using the "communist" boogieman while advancing the very same goals.

angelatc
02-20-2014, 10:57 AM
Yes,, Politicians say a lot of things.
and Obama is a Constitution scholar. :rolleyes:

Fabian Socialism (what exists here and elsewhere) has the same goals as the communist ideology.

Communism can absolutely not exist beyond philosophical masturbation,, but socialism can and does.

I get annoyed at Socialists (and others) using the "communist" boogieman while advancing the very same goals.

What you're saying is valid - that the self-identified Communists aren't actually textbook communists. The seld-identified capitalists aren't actually textbook capitalists. And any time you point out that socialism always fails, some young kniw-it-all always trumpets that true socialism has never been tried.

But that's only true because textbook definitions only capture the ideology, while reality has a human factor. We will never live in a pure anything society, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying to force change in that direction.

Pericles
02-20-2014, 11:16 AM
The author clearly doesn't have the slightest clue as to what Walmart's actual business model is. Like most of today's large companies, its business is gaming government financial incentives. The free market doesn't enter into it.
The government is the market.

Pericles
02-20-2014, 11:18 AM
Lol. When I was young there were kids that would drive up and down the road and hit the mailboxes with a baseball bat. After the second replacement my dad got 2 mailboxes. A large one and a smaller one that fit inside leaving about two inches of space between them. He then filled that space with cement. One morning we found a bat by the side of the road and a small ding on the mailbox. I imagine that shock went right down that young man's spine.
I will point out that no police were involved or dogs shot during this incident.

pcosmar
02-20-2014, 12:13 PM
Lol. When I was young there were kids that would drive up and down the road and hit the mailboxes with a baseball bat. After the second replacement my dad got 2 mailboxes. A large one and a smaller one that fit inside leaving about two inches of space between them. He then filled that space with cement. One morning we found a bat by the side of the road and a small ding on the mailbox. I imagine that shock went right down that young man's spine.
It is not kids with bats that concern me.

It is snowplows.

Folks up here,, lots of folks build shields in various forms. Hundreds of boxes die every winter.

Here is another guy's solution,
http://nateholt.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/energy-absorbing-mailbox-2-snow-plows-0/

Anti Federalist
02-20-2014, 12:41 PM
I see this quite a bit in NH.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5aTDxh6cA7g/UR5n2KLbEDI/AAAAAAAAXAQ/ppm7dgy_Ndo/s1600/Storm-proof+mailbox.JPG



It is not kids with bats that concern me.

It is snowplows.

Folks up here,, lots of folks build shields in various forms. Hundreds of boxes die every winter.

Here is another guy's solution,
http://nateholt.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/energy-absorbing-mailbox-2-snow-plows-0/

Anti Federalist
02-22-2014, 01:01 PM
Blimp

specsaregood
02-22-2014, 01:10 PM
Blimp

As to the OP topic:


Rowe: That’s easy. Walmart has committed to purchase 250 billion dollars of American made products over the next decade. In essence, that’s a purchase order made out to the USA for a quarter of a trillion dollars. That means dozens of American factories are going to reopen all over the country. Millions of dollars will pour straight into local economies, and hundreds of thousands of new manufacturing positions will need to be filled.... Isn’t this the kind of initiative we can all get behind?

What I'd like to know is if that is actually an increase. How many dollars of American made products do they currently stock year to year? Is this just marketing mumbo jumbo? Ie: its easy to make that commitment if they are already buying 25billion a year for their shelves.

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 12:02 AM
What I'd like to know is if that is actually an increase. How many dollars of American made products do they currently stock year to year? Is this just marketing mumbo jumbo? Ie: its easy to make that commitment if they are already buying 25billion a year for their shelves.

Good question.

Ender
02-23-2014, 12:30 AM
As to the OP topic:

What I'd like to know is if that is actually an increase. How many dollars of American made products do they currently stock year to year? Is this just marketing mumbo jumbo? Ie: its easy to make that commitment if they are already buying 25billion a year for their shelves.

That's funny.

Walmart's always being hated on because they don't buy enough "American." Now when they commit to do a huge amount, they are questioned as to their marketing mumbo-jumbo and that perhaps they have always spent $25 bil a year on American goods.

Can't please anybody.

angelatc
02-23-2014, 01:02 AM
That's funny.

Walmart's always being hated on because they don't buy enough "American." Now when they commit to do a huge amount, they are questioned as to their marketing mumbo-jumbo and that perhaps they have always spent $25 bil a year on American goods.

Can't please anybody.

If they unionized, the criticisms over their business practices would vanish overnight.

Ender
02-23-2014, 01:19 AM
If they unionized, the criticisms over their business practices would vanish overnight.

Of course- that's why the MSM has always pushed a negative picture about Walmart.

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 01:41 AM
If they unionized, the criticisms over their business practices would vanish overnight.

Wouldn't make a hill of beans o' difference to me.

Pay and employee policy has never been the issue AFAIC.

My gripe has been, and continues to be, assuming they still do this, forcing producers to offshore production, even when, as was the case with RubberMaid for instance, they were able to meet the wholesale price and quantity demanded by Bentonville.

They'd never admit as much but I've always had the suspicion that they did this, more than once I'm sure, because they did not want the rest of the "foreign flag" junk to look so shoddy by comparison.

Beorn
02-23-2014, 03:19 AM
Even if it is an increase it's still a drop in the bucket for Walmart. At the current size of their purchasing budget that would be an increase of 7.5%. With increasing purchases over the next ten years my guess is that it won't amount to more than 5% of their purchasing budget. Big deal.

pcosmar
02-23-2014, 07:48 AM
As to the OP topic:

What I'd like to know is if that is actually an increase. How many dollars of American made products do they currently stock year to year?


Good question.

Well just out of curiosity,, I looked at the mailboxes when I picked up Honey last night.

Both the metal one (that I have) and the plastic one,,(Rubbermaid) are made in the US.

That ties in the derail nicely. ;)

pcosmar
02-23-2014, 08:01 AM
That ties in the derail nicely. ;)

Oh,, and a few more,, just off the top of my head..

Sporting goods,, I think most or the Rifles are US made,, as well as Ammo.

The Realtree Camo,, Several of the Knives. And I think at least some of the tents.

Huffy Bikes, And Schwinn (though they are now a Multinational).


Quite a lot of Name Brand Items,, as well as products from all over the world.

angelatc
02-23-2014, 10:44 AM
Well just out of curiosity,, I looked at the mailboxes when I picked up Honey last night.

Both the metal one (that I have) and the plastic one,,(Rubbermaid) are made in the US.

That ties in the derail nicely. ;)


Thanks! I was actually at Home Depot when I was last mailbox shopping.....

Seriously, it annoys me that I can't put a big mailbox in.

angelatc
02-23-2014, 10:53 AM
Wouldn't make a hill of beans o' difference to me.

Pay and employee policy has never been the issue AFAIC.

My gripe has been, and continues to be, assuming they still do this, forcing producers to offshore production, even when, as was the case with RubberMaid for instance, they were able to meet the wholesale price and quantity demanded by Bentonville.



Based on the crap that your wife posts, I'm inclined to question your source on that. My husband is in this business, and this is the first time I've heard this accusation. What I heard , and this was back in the '90's, was that Rubbermaid raised their prices dramatically, and WalMart responded by giving their lower-priced, smaller competitors some of that shelf space. God forbid smaller get a break?

As a result, Rubbermaid lost sales, and ended up getting acquired by Newell.

I don't understand this aversion to low prices and customer demand.

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 11:11 AM
It was a PBS Frontline piece.

ETA: And what was the reason for the shitty personal remark?


Based on the crap that your wife posts, I'm inclined to question your source on that. My husband is in this business, and this is the first time I've heard this accusation. What I heard , and this was back in the '90's, was that Rubbermaid raised their prices dramatically, and WalMart responded by giving their lower-priced, smaller competitors some of that shelf space. God forbid smaller get a break?

As a result, Rubbermaid lost sales, and ended up getting acquired by Newell.

I don't understand this aversion to low prices and customer demand.

2young2vote
02-23-2014, 11:24 AM
Hmm:

"According to data from our suppliers, items that are made, sourced or grown right here in America already account for about two-thirds of what we spend to buy products at Walmart U.S."

Walmart has a COGS of $358,000,000,000 for 2013. Assuming they aren't lying about the 2/3 number, that would mean they spent $238,000,000,000 on American made goods last year.

EDIT: actually, that is for the whole chain. I'm not sure what it is only in America. Should have thought about that before posting.

I'm assuming food, which is mostly grown, packaged, and shipped in the USA anyways, accounts for a large amount of that. I haven't read their financial statements, but food products seem like they would be a huge portion of their sales if my local Walmart is indicative of the whole chain.

Have the defined whether the $25,000,000,000 per year extra on American goods is going to be towards food or non-food items?

pcosmar
02-23-2014, 11:30 AM
It was a PBS Frontline piece.


Not questioning the story,, but just that line of thinking.

I remember hearing it a lot in my youth,, in regards to "that cheap Japanese crap" when they were producing transistor radios.
And doing it better.

I blame regulations and Unions for the decline in manufacturing. Not the retailers.

And also the "venture capitalists" that bought up,, closed out and sold off productive, job providing, manufacturing all across the country.

nobody's_hero
02-23-2014, 12:00 PM
Yes, but but before you get all carried away and go shopping, they also announced that they are looking at whether or not they should support raising the minimum wage.

That's how Mom & Pop stores really get squashed.

I'm really looking forward to the expansion of automated self check-out checkout lines that will be installed when minimum wage goes up.

Well, not really. Nothing like being told repeatedly by some nagging robot bi*ch in a computer box to "please place the item in the bag" when you already did and the technology simply won't detect it like a real live human would. Anything to save 3 cents on a pound of apples. :(

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 12:06 PM
Ugh, you're right...hadn't thought of that.


I'm really looking forward to the expansion of automated self check-out checkout lines that will be installed when minimum wage goes up.

Well, not really. Nothing like being told repeatedly by some nagging robot bi*ch in a computer box to "please place the item in the bag" when you already did and the technology simply won't detect it like a real live human would. Anything to save 3 cents on a pound of apples. :(

angelatc
02-23-2014, 12:08 PM
It was a PBS Frontline piece.

ETA: And what was the reason for the shitty personal remark?

Didn't mean it to be shitty. I just couldn't figure out how else to explain it. Guilt by association, unfortunately.

Before we go any farther, is this the Frontline piece we are talking about? Circa 2004? http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/etc/script.html (Transcript) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/ (video)

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 12:17 PM
Yeah, that's it.


Didn't mean it to be shitty. I just couldn't figure out how else to explain it. Guilt by association, unfortunately.

Before we go any farther, is this the Frontline piece we are talking about? Circa 2004? http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/etc/script.html (Transcript) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/ (video)

Ender
02-23-2014, 12:29 PM
Not questioning the story,, but just that line of thinking.

I remember hearing it a lot in my youth,, in regards to "that cheap Japanese crap" when they were producing transistor radios.
And doing it better.

I blame regulations and Unions for the decline in manufacturing. Not the retailers.

And also the "venture capitalists" that bought up,, closed out and sold off productive, job providing, manufacturing all across the country.

Yep.

The gov has driven business out of the US and then the unions & MSM combine to blame Walmart- never mind that every big chain store operates exactly the same.

angelatc
02-23-2014, 12:35 PM
Before we get to the Rubbermaid portion, here are some quotes I cherry-picked :




BILL NICHOL: They force all of us [vendors], by really good business discipline, to be sure we're paying attention at all times to what their customers want to buy. It serves the purpose of saying, "This is what they want, and they want to buy it at this price." Therefore, that's what we'd better be doing, our little company.


HEDRICK SMITH: The focus is on what matters most to Wal-Mart: prices.


JON LEHMAN, Former Wal-Mart Store Manager: They know every fact and figure that these manufacturers have. They know their books. They know their costs. They know their business practices– everything, you know? So what's a manufacturer left to do? They sit naked in front of Wal-Mart. You know, Wal-Mart calls the shots. "If you want to do business with us, if you want to stay in business, then you're going to do it our way." And it's all about driving down the cost of goods.


Prof. NELSON LICHTENSTEIN: The power of Wal-Mart is such, it's reversed a 100-year history in which the manufacturer was powerful and the retailer was sort of the vassal. It's changed that. It turned that around entirely. Now the retailer, the mass global retailer, is at the center. That's the power. And the manufacturer becomes the serf, the vassal, the underling who has to do the bidding of the retailer. That's a new thing.


What part of that is objectionable? Because it sounds to me exactly like how demand is supposed to work.



HEDRICK SMITH: Wal-Mart became a world leader in logistics and promoted greater efficiency among its suppliers. Some analysts even credit Wal-Mart with increasing U.S. productivity.

HEDRICK SMITH: By figuring out how to exploit two powerful forces that converged in the '90s, the rise of information technology and the explosion of the global economy, Wal-Mart has changed the balance of power in the world of business.


LOL at the word "exploit." Not identified, not harnessed....no, Walmart "exploited."

angelatc
02-23-2014, 12:50 PM
STANLEY GAULT: When I came to Rubbermaid, they did not sell Wal-Mart. They were selling K-mart, but they wouldn't sell Wal-Mart. Well, within a short period of time, Wal-Mart – really, within a year – they were our largest customer.

HEDRICK SMITH: But behind the headlines, Rubbermaid was struggling to maintain its ambitious growth targets. Then, suddenly, it found itself in a showdown with its biggest customer


CAROL TROYER: The price of resin skyrocketed. And resin is a huge component of any plastic product that you make. And when we went out with a price increase across the industry to all retailers, saying, "Our raw material costs have increased significantly, We have to get a price increase for our products," Wal-Mart would not take that price increase. They flat-out refused to take the price increase.

CAROL TROYER: I thought it was a vindictive kind of meeting that said, "Yes, you may be Rubbermaid and you're big Rubbermaid and you got the great name and all that, but you're not going to tell us what to do. We're not going to take your price increase, and we really don't care what it does to you."

]HEDRICK SMITH: Wal-Mart's pull-back was a body blow to Rubbermaid. Coupled with lax management at Rubbermaid, it plunged the company into deep trouble. In 1999, Rubbermaid sold out to Newell, a major competitor. By the time I arrived in Wooster five years later, it had come to this, Rubbermaid auctioning off its birthright.

So, a company that was unprepared for the growth that WalMart brought them because of "lax management" meets higher supply prices, and it's biggest customer says that their customers do not want to pay the higher price. It sounds to me like their relationship with WalMart was a symptom of their bad management.

Was WalMart supposed to sell out the consumer, their customers, to subsidize Rubbermaid's mistakes?

And BTW, I don't see anything that indicates this statement is based on something in this documentary:
My gripe has been, and continues to be, assuming they still do this, forcing producers to offshore production, even when, as was the case with RubberMaid for instance, they were able to meet the wholesale price and quantity demanded by Bentonville.

FloralScent
02-23-2014, 01:00 PM
But his answers to those questions don't make any sense. Who cares what geographical location something that some store sells was made?



The American worker that's who. People who want a quality product, that's who. People who don't want to subsidized slave labor at at the expense of American workers that's who. Holy fuck you're a Communist.

angelatc
02-23-2014, 01:04 PM
The American worker that's who. People who want a quality product, that's who. People who don't want to subsidized slave labor at at the expense of American workers that's who. Holy fuck you're a Communist.

You're a funny guy!!!!! It's the Communists that demand fierce loyalty to the state and the workers.

And besides - WalMart's historic growth proves that's just not true. Or at least it hasn't been true for the last 20-30 years. People want low prices.

angelatc
02-23-2014, 01:10 PM
I like Mike Rowe. He seems to be a good guy. He's entertaining, and he has a great name.

But his answers to those questions don't make any sense. Who cares what geographical location something that some store sells was made?



Shrugs. Some people do. But most people don't - they just want to keep as much of their hard earned money as possible, and they do that by sourcing the lowest prices possible.

For the record, I support import tariffs. But I don't blame WalMart for importing items. Their whole function is to give me low prices.

Ender
02-23-2014, 01:25 PM
Shrugs. Some people do. But most people don't - they just want to keep as much of their hard earned money as possible, and they do that by sourcing the lowest prices possible.

For the record, I support import tariffs. But I don't blame WalMart for importing items. Their whole function is to give me low prices.

In this we agree.

Don't faint. ;)

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 01:28 PM
And BTW, I don't see anything that indicates this statement is based on something in this documentary:

Nope, there is isn't.

I am either wrong, or basing that on follow up commentary, where it was stated that RubberMaid came back and met their price, and was rejected, and told, specifically, to offshore production.

Recall, I started this thread to praise Wal Mart.

Regardless, I have nothing to back it up, so you win.

Moving on:


Didn't mean it to be shitty. I just couldn't figure out how else to explain it. Guilt by association, unfortunately.

Guilt?

Guilty of what?

Posting articles on alternative health and non conventional medicine that you happen to disagree with?

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 01:32 PM
You're a funny guy!!!!! It's the Communists that demand fierce loyalty to the state and the workers.

I'm a communist because I don't like seeing talented and productive men, like Pete, for example, sitting around watching the snow pile up because there is effectively 25% unemployment due in no small part to outsourced production of goods?

Ender
02-23-2014, 01:36 PM
I'm a communist because I don't like seeing talented and productive men, like Pete, for example, sitting around watching the snow pile up because there is effectively 25% unemployment due in no small part to outsourced production of goods?

The problem is the gov- not businesses who have found a way to still operate.

We ALL need to work to end the FED, restore real capitalism and get rid of gov crony capitalism. THIS is the reason for business being driven out of the US, not to mention little things like the WoD.

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 01:36 PM
Perhaps it was Lakewood Engineering:


The stories of how Wal-Mart pushes manufacturers into selling the same product at lower and lower prices are legendary. One example is Lakewood Engineering & Manufacturing Co. in Chicago, a fan manufacturer. In the early 1990s, a 20-inch box fan costs $20. Wal-Mart pushed the manufacturer to lower the price, and Lakewood responded by automating the production process, which meant layoffs. Lakewood also badgered it own suppliers to knock down the prices of parts. Then, in 2000, Lakewood opened a factory in China, where workers earn 25 cents an hour. By 2003, the price on the fan in a Wal-Mart store had dropped to about $10.

http://money.howstuffworks.com/wal-mart1.htm

I'll have to research this some more, my mistake for getting 10 and 20 year old incidents mixed up...getting old is a bitch.

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 01:37 PM
The problem is the gov- not businesses who have found a way to still operate.

We ALL need to work to end the FED, restore real capitalism and get rid of gov crony capitalism. THIS is the reason for business being driven out of the US, not to mention little things like the WoD.

But isn't the very definition of "crony capitalism" Wal Mart's model?

If not, why not?

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 01:40 PM
The problem is the gov- not businesses who have found a way to still operate.

We ALL need to work to end the FED, restore real capitalism and get rid of gov crony capitalism. THIS is the reason for business being driven out of the US, not to mention little things like the WoD.

Oh, and the whole point of this thread was to point out a non governmental solution.

The only reason Wal Marx would agree to such a thing was if there was customer pushback.

Which is how this is supposed to work, right?

Ender
02-23-2014, 01:44 PM
But isn't the very definition of "crony capitalism" Wal Mart's model?

If not, why not?

Really? You think the gov is in love with Walmart, a company that made it in spite of gov regulations and laws in absurdity? Has Walmart taken advantage of what ever it can with the feds? Of course, as had Target, Costco, etc. BUT it still operates farther from gov goodies than most of US corps.

A real Crony Capitalism example is making marijuana evil so that the state can get rid of hemp. Can't have it competing with oil and cotton industries.

Ender
02-23-2014, 01:45 PM
Oh, and the whole point of this thread was to point out a non governmental solution.

The only reason Wal Marx would agree to such a thing was if there was customer pushback.

Which is how this is supposed to work, right?

I agree- and I heartily endorse this thread; never meant to seem contrary.

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 01:53 PM
"We've been forced out of business, No. 1, because of the likes of Wal-Mart," Reed said.

Wal-Mart was once a solid account for his company, Stitches. But every season, Reed said, the retailer demanded a lower price, shrinking his profit to the point that an unexpected expense could push him into the red.

In January, he lost money on a Wal-Mart order. A few months later, he was asked to make 10,000 intricately worked cardigans for the retailer within a week. The sample already bore a Wal-Mart price tag: $8.47.

"You can't make it here at that price," Reed said at the time. "Not legally, anyway."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-reed24nov2403,0,3867667.story#ixzz2uB1LA5mk

angelatc
02-23-2014, 02:09 PM
"We've been forced out of business, No. 1, because of the likes of Wal-Mart," Reed said.

Wal-Mart was once a solid account for his company, Stitches. But every season, Reed said, the retailer demanded a lower price, shrinking his profit to the point that an unexpected expense could push him into the red.

In January, he lost money on a Wal-Mart order. A few months later, he was asked to make 10,000 intricately worked cardigans for the retailer within a week. The sample already bore a Wal-Mart price tag: $8.47.

"You can't make it here at that price," Reed said at the time. "Not legally, anyway."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-reed24nov2403,0,3867667.story#ixzz2uB1LA5mk

So he was priced out of the market. And that makes me sad because...competition is bad? I have some social obligation to personally subsidize inefficiency in the ugly sweater market?

specsaregood
02-23-2014, 02:11 PM
That's funny.

Walmart's always being hated on because they don't buy enough "American." Now when they commit to do a huge amount, they are questioned as to their marketing mumbo-jumbo and that perhaps they have always spent $25 bil a year on American goods.

Can't please anybody.

Cant answer the question I take it. Yeah, because marketers have never obfuscated the truth. I support the idea but I doubt its legitimacy. The part I quoted had this:


Rowe: That’s easy. Walmart has committed to purchase 250 billion dollars of American made products over the next decade. In essence, that’s a purchase order made out to the USA for a quarter of a trillion dollars. That means dozens of American factories are going to reopen all over the country
The only way that is true; is if this 25billion/year is a remarkable increase. I'm only asking if it truly is an increase. Walmart is big; I'm not sure that is all that much for them.

Beorn
02-23-2014, 02:12 PM
People around here won't like Chesterton's solutions, but you can't doubt that he was good at identifying the problem.

"I WILL whisper in the reader’s ear a horrible suspicion that has sometimes haunted me: the suspicion that Hudge [the government] and Gudge [corporations] are secretly in partnership. That the quarrel they keep up in public is very much of a put-up job, and that the way in which they perpetually play into each other’s hands is not an everlasting coincidence. Gudge, the plutocrat, wants an anarchic industrialism; Hudge, the idealist, provides him with lyric praises of anarchy. Gudge wants women-workers because they are cheaper; Hudge calls the woman’s work “freedom to live her own life.” Gudge wants steady and obedient workmen, Hudge preaches teetotalism — to workmen, not to Gudge. Gudge wants a tame and timid population who will never take arms against tyranny; Hudge proves from Tolstoi that nobody must take arms against anything. Gudge is naturally a healthy and well-washed gentleman; Hudge earnestly preaches the perfection of Gudge’s washing to people who can’t practice it. Above all, Gudge rules by a coarse and cruel system of sacking and sweating and bi-sexual toil which is totally inconsistent with the free family and which is bound to destroy it; therefore Hudge, stretching out his arms to the universe with a prophetic smile, tells us that the family is something that we shall soon gloriously outgrow."

angelatc
02-23-2014, 02:13 PM
Perhaps it was Lakewood Engineering:


The stories of how Wal-Mart pushes manufacturers into selling the same product at lower and lower prices are legendary. One example is Lakewood Engineering & Manufacturing Co. in Chicago, a fan manufacturer. In the early 1990s, a 20-inch box fan costs $20. Wal-Mart pushed the manufacturer to lower the price, and Lakewood responded by automating the production process, which meant layoffs. Lakewood also badgered it own suppliers to knock down the prices of parts. Then, in 2000, Lakewood opened a factory in China, where workers earn 25 cents an hour. By 2003, the price on the fan in a Wal-Mart store had dropped to about $10. http://money.howstuffworks.com/wal-mart1.htm




I'll have to research this some more, my mistake for getting 10 and 20 year old incidents mixed up...getting old is a bitch.


This doesn't make me cry, because I am not liberal. AM I suppose to feel ad that I only paid $10 for a $10 fan? Did that social contract I keep hearing about contain a clause stipulating that we must forever manufacturer things by hand, because higher prices are good for us?

Beorn
02-23-2014, 02:15 PM
Well maybe not outgrow... Just replaced.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8zNsUTWsOc

angelatc
02-23-2014, 02:16 PM
I'm a communist because I don't like seeing talented and productive men, like Pete, for example, sitting around watching the snow pile up because there is effectively 25% unemployment due in no small part to outsourced production of goods?

Like I said, I support import tariffs. But I sure as fuck don't expect Walmart to.

donnay
02-23-2014, 02:21 PM
This doesn't make me cry, because I am not liberal. AM I suppose to feel ad that I only paid $10 for a $10 fan? Did that social contract I keep hearing about contain a clause stipulating that we must forever manufacturer things by hand, because higher prices are good for us?

There you go again speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Making a profit is a bad thing?

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 02:23 PM
This doesn't make me cry, because I am not liberal. AM I suppose to feel ad that I only paid $10 for a $10 fan? Did that social contract I keep hearing about contain a clause stipulating that we must forever manufacturer things by hand, because higher prices are good for us?

Not expecting you to cry, you can do whatever you want.

I do have an element of concern for my neighbor, I want to see them do well and be productive and maintain a decent standard of living, not only as a matter of decent Christian fellowship, but also because, sooner or later, when things get bad enough, you'll get that communist revolt you are so worried about.

But you said you supported tariffs, which would have allowed both of the businesses to stay functional, and keep employing people.

When you're broke and out of work, it doesn't matter how much a fan costs, you ain't buying shit, unless it's with money stolen from other people.

Beorn
02-23-2014, 02:23 PM
This doesn't make me cry, because I am not liberal. AM I suppose to feel ad that I only paid $10 for a $10 fan? Did that social contract I keep hearing about contain a clause stipulating that we must forever manufacturer things by hand, because higher prices are good for us?

No, you don't feel bad. Not because you're not a liberal, but because modern economy has far removed you from the consequences of your economic activity. If you were forcing down the price of milk you bought from your neighbor until they were forced to sell their farm and leave after several generations of farming in the area then maybe you would feel bad, not because you're a liberal, but because you're a human. But, who gives a shit about somebody in a far off state losing their job or company to an overseas competitor. Not my problem.

pcosmar
02-23-2014, 02:27 PM
But isn't the very definition of "crony capitalism" Wal Mart's model?

If not, why not?
I think it is the nature of Corporatism,, which if anything, is a perversion of capitalism.

Capitalism is a natural state of man. Everyone wants to be paid for his efforts.
Unbridled Greed is not a virtue,, but it seems the common definition of "capitalism" these days.

The days of personal pride in a job done, (honest work for fair pay) seems to be gone,, or at least very rare.

The company started that way,, the corporate world has tainted it.

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 02:28 PM
People around here won't like Chesterton's solutions, but you can't doubt that he was good at identifying the problem.

"I WILL whisper in the reader’s ear a horrible suspicion that has sometimes haunted me: the suspicion that Hudge [the government] and Gudge [corporations] are secretly in partnership. That the quarrel they keep up in public is very much of a put-up job, and that the way in which they perpetually play into each other’s hands is not an everlasting coincidence. Gudge, the plutocrat, wants an anarchic industrialism; Hudge, the idealist, provides him with lyric praises of anarchy. Gudge wants women-workers because they are cheaper; Hudge calls the woman’s work “freedom to live her own life.” Gudge wants steady and obedient workmen, Hudge preaches teetotalism — to workmen, not to Gudge. Gudge wants a tame and timid population who will never take arms against tyranny; Hudge proves from Tolstoi that nobody must take arms against anything. Gudge is naturally a healthy and well-washed gentleman; Hudge earnestly preaches the perfection of Gudge’s washing to people who can’t practice it. Above all, Gudge rules by a coarse and cruel system of sacking and sweating and bi-sexual toil which is totally inconsistent with the free family and which is bound to destroy it; therefore Hudge, stretching out his arms to the universe with a prophetic smile, tells us that the family is something that we shall soon gloriously outgrow."

http://guyism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/applause-gif.gif

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 02:33 PM
Uncle Smedley on foreign corporate adventures:


War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 02:42 PM
So he was priced out of the market. And that makes me sad because...competition is bad? I have some social obligation to personally subsidize inefficiency in the ugly sweater market?

The primary reason for posting that is to connect the dots, so I can find which manufacturer it was, during the height of Wal Marx outsourcing, about ten - 15 years ago now, that was demanded to outsource to China, even after they met the price demanded by the Wal Mart wholesale jobbers.

I thought, off the top of my head, that it was RubberMaid, but I was wrong.

Regardless, what are tariffs but that?

I support tariffs because they are constitutional and the least intrusive and brutal form of taxation.

But I also support them because they are effective at doing precisely what you are complaining about here.

Like I said, I want to see my fellow man do well, because:

A - I am a human being, and...

B - I do not want to see my fellow man get so desperate that he gets to the point the only solution in his mind is to come and take all my stuff.

FloralScent
02-23-2014, 02:42 PM
You're a funny guy!!!!! It's the Communists that demand fierce loyalty to the state and the workers.

The State, not the Nation. One of the main tenets of Communism is its internationalist scope. In fact, the facilitation of internationalism and the destruction of national identity may be the only real purpose of Communism. All forms of internationalism are just offshoots of this and its adherents are Communists whether they admit it or not. The NWO is its baby.

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 02:47 PM
The days of personal pride in a job done, (honest work for fair pay) seems to be gone,, or at least very rare.

Exactly, sadly.

Like I've said many times already, we are creating a world for ourselves in which people are superfluous and unneeded.

angelatc
02-23-2014, 03:23 PM
Exactly, sadly.

Like I've said many times already, we are creating a world for ourselves in which people are superfluous and unneeded.

See, this is an area of economic thought that excites me more than anything I ever read in college. What if you're right? What if we unleash enough technology that robots and machines can provide for all of our basic needs?

Theres no stopping an idea whose time has come, as they say.

angelatc
02-23-2014, 03:24 PM
No, you don't feel bad. Not because you're not a liberal, but because modern economy has far removed you from the consequences of your economic activity. If you were forcing down the price of milk you bought from your neighbor until they were forced to sell their farm and leave after several generations of farming in the area then maybe you would feel bad, not because you're a liberal, but because you're a human. But, who gives a shit about somebody in a far off state losing their job or company to an overseas competitor. Not my problem.


The government has a price floor on milk, which means milk is priced higher than the market demands precisely to keep inefficient farmers on their farms, farming. Happy?


And maybe we need a refresher course in Austrian economics....the one that requires everybody to act in their own best interests? It is in my best interest to pay as little as possible for the things that I buy.

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 04:08 PM
See, this is an area of economic thought that excites me more than anything I ever read in college. What if you're right? What if we unleash enough technology that robots and machines can provide for all of our basic needs?

Theres no stopping an idea whose time has come, as they say.

Is that a world you want to live in?

I'm not so sure it's one I want.

To quote you: "The future is fail".

But I'm pretty sure it's the one that's coming.

Some would say that is a great thing, a new age of enlightenment, "why, how could you possibly be opposed to such a thing, all that free time for man to plumb his intellect and probe the greatest of mysteries...it will be glorious".

Is it just my naturally pessimistic nature, that I see "Idiocracy" instead?

That I see Biebers and Beyoncés instead of Bachs and Beethovens?

Beorn
02-23-2014, 04:13 PM
The government has a price floor on milk, which means milk is priced higher than the market demands precisely to keep inefficient farmers on their farms, farming. Happy?

Why do you insist on making a strawman argument? I never advocated for price controls. But, whether or not those farmers are indeed inefficient is an issue I'll get to briefly.


And maybe we need a refresher course in Austrian economics....the one that requires everybody to act in their own best interests? It is in my best interest to pay as little as possible for the things that I buy.

Economics isn't really my field of expertise, but If that's true then I feel sorry for you. I feel sorry that you only measure things in terms of dollars and cents. You're not alone as many economists seem to think of efficiency in only terms of quantifiable dollars and cents. That's a mistake because there are humans involved who are not machines, but have unquantifiable desires and needs.

Dr. Mark T. Mitchell tells a story of the leader of the German recovery, Wilhelm Röpke. Röpke was traveling through a post-WWII German village with a fellow economist. He was proudly pointing out to his companion all the home vegetable gardens that the locals had industriously been tending to provide food for their own tables. The fellow economist sniffed and said that it was a very inefficient means of producing vegetables. Röpke paused and then responded:
"Perhaps, but isn't it an efficient means of producing happiness?"

I could imagine wondering through a Walmart with an economist today who would praise the "efficiency" of Walmart.

My response would be the opposite of Ropke's:
"Perhaps, but isn't it also an efficient means of producing misery?"

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 04:17 PM
And maybe we need a refresher course in Austrian economics....the one that requires everybody to act in their own best interests? It is in my best interest to pay as little as possible for the things that I buy.

Sometimes self interest is not apparent or the best thing for you.

It may strike me someday, that my self interest says I should go on a three day bender of chasing hookers, crank and booze.

It'd be some fun, I know that.

But would it be in my self interest?

Clearly not.

At the same time, I'm opposed to any police state organs that say my fellow man must be strapped down by law from doing the same.

I view "nudging" manufacturing back here with an initiative like this, after an orgy of outsourcing, in the same way.

"I'm not going to call the cops on you, but hey man, let me give you a ride to go home and sleep it off".

Danke
02-23-2014, 05:21 PM
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

Ender
02-23-2014, 05:52 PM
OK......

This thread is pretty amazing: everyone is always screaming about dirty liberals but when it comes to Walmart most here seem to echo the very aspects of "dirty liberalism" that no one likes.

Walmart is NOT the bad guy; they supply what people want. And, as stated before, all the other big chain stores are no different. But because Walmart is successful, in spite of all the idiotic regulations, AND because it will not unionize, then it deserves hate and disrespect.

I think we all need a refresher course in REAL capitalism:

If George makes a great product and people buy it, then George keeps making the product and the price goes down because of demand. In the meantime George hires competent workers at a decent wage, because he wants to keep a good product going and customers happy.

Andrew makes a product and nobody buys it. Andrew either has to upgrade the item or come up with a better product.

This is how capitalism works.

It is not forced charity.

It is not greed.

It is not government control.

Danke
02-23-2014, 05:54 PM
OK......

This thread is pretty amazing: everyone is always screaming about dirty liberals but when it comes to Walmart most here seem to echo the very aspects of "dirty liberalism" that no one likes.

Walmart is NOT the bad guy; they supply what people want. And, as stated before, all the other big chain stores are no different. But because Walmart is successful, in spite of all the idiotic regulations, AND because it will not unionize, then it deserves hate and disrespect.

I think we all need a refresher course in REAL capitalism:

If George makes a great product and people buy it, then George keeps making the product and the price goes down because of demand. In the meantime George hires competent workers at a decent wage, because he wants to keep a good product going and customers happy.

Andrew makes a product and nobody buys it. Andrew either has to upgrade the item or come up with a better product.

This is how capitalism works.

It is not forced charity.

It is not greed.

It is not government control.

So you support the TARP, etc. Got it.

Ender
02-23-2014, 06:01 PM
So you support the TARP, etc. Got it.

How in the hell did you come up with that?

Again:

Socialism: You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor because he doesn’t have a cow.

Communism: You have two cows. The government takes both and gives you the milk.

Fascism: You have two cows. The government takes both and sells you the milk.

Nazism: You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you.

New Dealism: You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots one, milks the other and throws the milk away.

Capitalism: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.

Danke
02-23-2014, 06:06 PM
How in the hell did you come up with that?

Again:

Socialism: You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor because he doesn’t have a cow.

Communism: You have two cows. The government takes both and gives you the milk.

Fascism: You have two cows. The government takes both and sells you the milk.

Nazism: You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you.

New Dealism: You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots one, milks the other and throws the milk away.

Capitalism: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.

How the hell? Have you been paying attention?

Government hand outs, tax breaks, land deals, and other favors, etc. Something small businesses have not been given recently.

Danke
02-23-2014, 06:10 PM
I hope no one rails against bankers anymore. Hell, they are just working within the system.

Ender
02-23-2014, 06:50 PM
How the hell? Have you been paying attention?

Government hand outs, tax breaks, land deals, and other favors, etc. Something small businesses have not been given recently.

Have YOU been paying attention?

I am totally against gov involvement in business and have said that over and over and over and over...... ad nasuem.

Ender
02-23-2014, 06:50 PM
I hope no one rails against bankers anymore. Hell, they are just working within the system.

They ARE the system.

Danke
02-23-2014, 07:18 PM
Have YOU been paying attention?

I am totally against gov involvement in business and have said that over and over and over and over...... ad nasuem.

But in the case of Walmart, it is ok. I got it.

Ender
02-23-2014, 07:43 PM
But in the case of Walmart, it is ok. I got it.

Either you don't get it or you are being deliberately obtuse.

BECAUSE.

I say it about ALL BUSINESS, not Walmart.

oyarde
02-23-2014, 07:49 PM
I hope no one rails against bankers anymore. Hell, they are just working within the system.

I like my credit union better than walmart .

Beorn
02-23-2014, 08:01 PM
OK......

This thread is pretty amazing: everyone is always screaming about dirty liberals but when it comes to Walmart most here seem to echo the very aspects of "dirty liberalism" that no one likes.

Walmart is NOT the bad guy; they supply what people want. And, as stated before, all the other big chain stores are no different. But because Walmart is successful, in spite of all the idiotic regulations, AND because it will not unionize, then it deserves hate and disrespect.

I think we all need a refresher course in REAL capitalism:

If George makes a great product and people buy it, then George keeps making the product and the price goes down because of demand. In the meantime George hires competent workers at a decent wage, because he wants to keep a good product going and customers happy.

Andrew makes a product and nobody buys it. Andrew either has to upgrade the item or come up with a better product.

This is how capitalism works.

It is not forced charity.

It is not greed.

It is not government control.

Is/ought fallacy

Simply because a company is successful does not mean it ought to be successful.

Cdn_for_liberty
02-23-2014, 08:30 PM
Why do you insist on making a strawman argument? I never advocated for price controls. But, whether or not those farmers are indeed inefficient is an issue I'll get to briefly.



Economics isn't really my field of expertise, but If that's true then I feel sorry for you. I feel sorry that you only measure things in terms of dollars and cents. You're not alone as many economists seem to think of efficiency in only terms of quantifiable dollars and cents. That's a mistake because there are humans involved who are not machines, but have unquantifiable desires and needs.

Dr. Mark T. Mitchell tells a story of the leader of the German recovery, Wilhelm Röpke. Röpke was traveling through a post-WWII German village with a fellow economist. He was proudly pointing out to his companion all the home vegetable gardens that the locals had industriously been tending to provide food for their own tables. The fellow economist sniffed and said that it was a very inefficient means of producing vegetables. Röpke paused and then responded:
"Perhaps, but isn't it an efficient means of producing happiness?"

I could imagine wondering through a Walmart with an economist today who would praise the "efficiency" of Walmart.

My response would be the opposite of Ropke's:
"Perhaps, but isn't it also an efficient means of producing misery?"

I think you really hit the nail on the head.

Btw, it's not just Walmart that's inhumane but the construction industry as well. Heavy earth moving equipment replacing humans with shovels? or even humans with teaspoons?

nobody's_hero
02-23-2014, 08:35 PM
I like my credit union better than walmart .

Wal mart will probably own your credit union one day, unfortunately.

Danke
02-23-2014, 08:45 PM
Either you don't get it or you are being deliberately obtuse.

BECAUSE.

I say it about ALL BUSINESS, not Walmart.

Oh I get it.

No it isn't just about Walmart. Money talks.

Ender
02-23-2014, 08:47 PM
Is/ought fallacy

Simply because a company is successful does not mean it ought to be successful.

We're not talking the FED here- we are talking about a company that people here hate because they buy into the MSM propaganda that they also say they hate.

THAT'S the fallacy.

If Walmart unionized tomorrow, you would hear no more about it than you do Target & Costco.

Ender
02-23-2014, 08:48 PM
Oh I get it.

No it isn't just about Walmart. Money talks.

So......

You're anti-capitalism?

Danke
02-23-2014, 08:58 PM
So......

You're anti-capitalism?

I'm against crony capitalism. Yes.

Ender
02-23-2014, 09:14 PM
I'm against crony capitalism. Yes.

Then we agree.

Danke
02-23-2014, 09:48 PM
Then we agree.

Which was the discussion about Walmart receiving benefits other competing business did not. Money and/in politics. Pretty simple.

Ender
02-23-2014, 09:57 PM
Which was the discussion about Walmart receiving benefits other competing business did not. Money and/in politics. Pretty simple.

In English, please.

ghengis86
02-23-2014, 10:07 PM
Sooo....

Was a consensus reached that all things equal, this is a good thing for the working man/woman in the US?

Or are we still stuck on the two minutes of WM hate?

Beorn
02-23-2014, 10:09 PM
We're not talking the FED here- we are talking about a company that people here hate because they buy into the MSM propaganda that they also say they hate.

THAT'S the fallacy.

If Walmart unionized tomorrow, you would hear no more about it than you do Target & Costco.

Lol. Yeah. The bad reputation Walmart has is completely caused by the MSM.



I think you really hit the nail on the head.

Btw, it's not just Walmart that's inhumane but the construction industry as well. Heavy earth moving equipment replacing humans with shovels? or even humans with teaspoons?

Oooh!
Argument ad absurdum.
Do I get a prize when I complete the set?

Ender
02-23-2014, 10:46 PM
Sooo....

Was a consensus reached that all things equal, this is a good thing for the working man/woman in the US?

Or are we still stuck on the two minutes of WM hate?

Still stuck. :rolleyes:

Anti Federalist
02-23-2014, 11:29 PM
Still stuck. :rolleyes:

LOL - And I started the thread with love for Wal Marx.

Ender
02-23-2014, 11:52 PM
LOL - And I started the thread with love for Wal Marx.

I know- but we can't have THAT, now can we. ;)

Sorta like the haters bringing up the newsletters every time Ron Paul did something great.

WM_in_MO
02-24-2014, 09:13 PM
From Today:


I’m back. Three days of press, five hours of sleep, four bottles of wine, a speech, a job offer, 5,000 form letters, and a couple of good-natured death threats. All because of a commercial that I narrated about American manufacturing paid for by Walmart. Press tours are fun!

Oscar Wilde said, “the only thing worse than people talking about you is people not talking about you.” I don’t know that I agree with Oscar, but one things for sure - there’s no such thing as “free press.” I just goggled myself and the results are too rich to ignore. Lets start with this journalistic masterpiece from Matt Hardigree. http://jalopnik.com/ford-drops-shill-for-the-oppressors-mike-rowe-from-truc-1526805143

“Shill for the Oppressors!” Is that not fantastic? I should make new business cards. I’m sure Matt’s a swell guy, but unfortunately, he’s so eager to report on a story that doesn’t exist he’s resorted to a career in fiction. Matt believes that my recent work with Walmart drove The Ford Motor Company to fire me after seven years of service. He sees some sort of conspiracy at work in a recent Ad Age article, where according to him, every one played just “a little too nice.”

Sorry Matt - here are the facts. Ford didn’t “drop” me. We had serious discussions about another extension but decided not to proceed for reasons completely benign. We parted amicably long before the Walmart ad came along. A simple phone call to Ford would have confirmed that. Or, you could have done some really deep digging, and called me. People do it all the time, especially when they’re interested in geting the facts.

Bottom line - We “played nice” in Ad Age because the people involved are all, well...nice. I’m just at a point in my career where I want to associate myself with messages that speak directly to the issues that are important to me. That’s why the Walmart ad was so appealing. A $250 billion investment in US manufacturing is worth talking about, and very much in keeping with the goals of my own foundation. If any other “Oppressors” are looking to make a similar investment in America, drop me a line. I’m happy to “shill” for any company that get this country back to work.

Also in Matt’s piece, was a link to this little gem.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-mike-rowe-became-a-lightning-rod-for-walmart/ (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2Fnews%2Fhow-mike-rowe-became-a-lightning-rod-for-walmart%2F&h=zAQExM57J&enc=AZOx9ooLQ8aWdVwUe7-AXteKpAmRIxf70ufHg7o95QEucb3pgRgS1aaQ4TRkoYseRGfKU wjtcTLZKmyr-eIgAq_euDxY2RkRP-BSG4QbjtaUFvxhnWfc0uIMH87VQh1ifXwREJwXWSEgeHyD6JI6 6qd-gFGgF8KxtCHtX0mql9dIYQ&s=1)

This piece comes from CBS News. Check out the photo. It’s a rare image of me in a suit a tie, and conveys all the sincerity of an ambitious vacuum cleaner salesman at the annual Hoover convention. Nice. Below the photo, the writer - Aimee Picchi - attributes the following question to me. “Who gives a crap about your feelings toward Walmart?” Unfortunately, Aimee leaves out the most important part, which for the record was this: “For that matter, who gives a crap about MY feelings? Isn’t the business of making things in America an initiative we can all get behind?”

Along with that omission, and the clever use of words like “hawk,” “tout,” and “spokesman,” the reader is left to believe that I’ve been empowered to speak on Walmart’s behalf in some sort of official capacity. In fact, I have not. I’m doing this because I want to encourage other companies to make similar investments in American manufacturing. That’s it.

Of course, I’m not the only one with an agenda, and Aimee knows it. Ori Korin is a spokesperson for “Jobs with Justice,” and she’s trying very hard to persuade people that Walmart is treating its workers unfairly. Aimee quotes Ori as being disappointed with my decision to work with “a company as notorious as Walmart.” Ori also believes I was “too quick to dismiss” the workers she represents.

Of course, I was already well-aware of Ori’s disappointment with me. To date, Jobs with Justice has carpet-bombed my office with 5,048 form letters, imploring me to sit down with “real Walmart employees” and listen to stories about how unfairly they have been treated. Naturally, Aimee points this out to her readers, and even provides a helpful link to the Jobs with Justice Letter Writing Campaign, so that other objective citizens might continue to overwhelm my modest staff with additional expressions of carbon-copied concern. (Thanks Aimee!)

My response to all this? According to Aimee -

“Rowe didn’t immediately return a request for comment.”

Well Aimee, please allow me to address your request with all due speed. My office has no record of a call from you or anyone at CBS. I've checked three times. Nothing. Of course, if you sent an email to my Foundation, it may very well be buried in the mountain of form letters currently straining the resources of mikeroweWORKS. Which brings me to Ori Korin, and Jobs for Justice. In the spirit of their chosen method of communication, I’ll respond directly and openly.

--------

Dear Ori:

You’ll be pleased to know that my office has received your letter, and 5,048 others just like it. While I’m sympathetic to your objectives and sensitive to the needs of your members, I must say that your tactics have had the same effect as a flood of telemarketing calls during my dinner, or a bag of dog crap set ablaze on my front porch. Now, instead of overseeing scholarship applications and other Foundation matters, my already beleaguered staff must sift through a sea of robo-letters in search of legitimate correspondence from hard-hitting investigative journalists like Matt & Aimee.

It’s a little ironic, don’t you think? On the one hand, Jobs with Justice is concerned that everyday people are being overwhelmed by heavy workloads. But you don’t think twice about flooding an unsuspecting non-profit foundation with and endless stream of form letters. Anyway, my answer to you is the same as it was after I got your first letter a week ago. You guys are in a labor dispute, and my foundation doesn’t take sides between employers and employees. Another 5,000 form letters won’t change my position on that - though it just might inspire my the nice woman who oversees my Foundation to throw herself out the window. (Her name is Mary, by the way, and her demise is now on you.)

Let me really spell this out though, so there’s no confusion at all. I care about the people you represent. That’s precisely why I set up a foundation and a scholarship fund. I’m trying to encourage hardworking people who are unhappy in their jobs to make a meaningful change in their life. A lasting change. And I believe this change is most likely to occur when people are willing to learn a skill that’s in demand. Happily, worthwhile opportunities are everywhere. Our country has a massive skills gap, and the chance to retool and retrain has never been better.

We’re not enemies, Ori. We’re just fighting different battles. You’re trying to wring out a modest increase for people who feel unappreciated by their employer and unhappy in their work. I’m trying to get those same people excited about possibilities and opportunities that go beyond their current positions. Frankly - and I say this with all due respect - I don’t believe that your strategy is in the long-term interest of your members, or for that matter, anyone who wants to improve their lives in a meaningful way.

Think about it, Ori. Many of the workers you represent have jobs that could very well become obsolete in just a few years. Automation, technology, automatic checkouts...the writing is on the wall. But the skilled trades are different. Welders, auto technicians, carpenters, masons, construction workers, healthcare...these opportunities are real, and the rewards go far beyond the minimum wage - whatever that might turn out to be. Walmart may have cornered the market on retail jobs, but the world's a lot bigger than Walmart.

Anyway, I want to help. Please forward your members this link. http://profoundlydisconnected.com/the-mikeroweworks-foundation-scholarship-opportunities/

Surely, if you’ve got time to send five thousand identical letters to the same email address, you’ve got time to pass this on to your members. But do me a favor - just send it once. People hate form letters.

------

Finally, I found a piece that literally drips with sanity and common sense. http://ivn.us/2014/02/20/defense-mike-rowe-stop-saying-represents-wal-mart/?utm_source=ivn&utm_medium=listing&utm_campaign=opt-beta-v-1-0

This comes from a guy named Shawn Griffiths over at The Independent Voter Network, and I appreciate every single sentence. My own bias aside, Shawn’s analysis is completely correct, and if I were King of the World, this would be required reading for any journalist that wanted to discuss recent events. If you’ve come this far, please give it a look.

Carry On,
Mike Rowe (https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMikeRowe)

PS If you’re late to the party or just a glutton for detail, my office has set up a press page with some photos and links to some of the recent appearances. http://profoundlydisconnected.com/about-mike/press/ (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fprofoundlydisconnected.com%2F about-mike%2Fpress%2F&h=nAQHM0Bbx&enc=AZO9lNttYw_8WuaUvCLGveLkq90w4qK6MVUtdt4ZdhfbI2 JysAE_FZbRqfQFIf1dAC5MVGL3O2d-Ocogy6Ncw-IrUsWmn8sUcjKrewpodyIkJNQ9fm7FkB1Yhl6frV07BGbaee_T oMCMSKLmbDqP0ctt886ONjUxILnWLdPp6v2oHA&s=1)

Danke
02-24-2014, 09:23 PM
In English, please.

Sorry you don't understand.

Some are more equal than others.

phill4paul
02-24-2014, 09:29 PM
Did anyone get bent about Mike Rowe's endorsement of Lee jeans?

http://www.brandconstructors.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Mike-Rowe_Lee-Print-Ad.jpg

In India 60,000 workers produce 5,000 Lee jeans each day. But, hey, the corporate office produces 400 American jobs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_(jeans)

Anti Federalist
02-24-2014, 10:04 PM
In Defense of Mike Rowe: Stop Saying He Represents Wal-Mart

http://ivn.us/2014/02/20/defense-mike-rowe-stop-saying-represents-wal-mart/?utm_source=ivn&utm_medium=listing&utm_campaign=opt-beta-v-1-0

By now, many people have seen this Wal-Mart commercial narrated by “Dirty Jobs” host Mike Rowe. The backlash on Rowe has been huge on social media and he has since been making the media rounds to defend the ad — not Wal-Mart, but the ad.

If television viewers tuned in to CNN on Thursday, February 20, besides not getting much in terms of actual news, they may have noticed a Piers Morgan promo which aired almost every commercial break about the interview Morgan will have with Rowe. The promo’s narrator says Morgan will ask Rowe how he can still stand up for the little guy when he represents one of America’s largest corporations.

First, Mike Rowe does not represent Wal-Mart. He does not work for the company’s PR department, or legal department, or any department for that matter. It is intentionally misleading to say Rowe represents Wal-Mart when all he did was narrate a 60-second television spot. We would not say Stephen Colbert represents Wonderful Pistachios or Laurence Fishburne represents Kia or any celebrity who does a commercial represents the product being advertised. If a Kia-manufactured car got recalled, no one at CNN would call Fisburne for comment (I say that, but I could be wrong), so why ask Rowe to defend Wal-Mart?

"There is a simple, yet sometimes hard truth to swallow: not every kid is going to go to college."
@ TheShawnG

Second, the commercial is about an effort to build the manufacturing labor force in the United States. These blue-collar jobs would be filled by what many would refer to as the “little guy.” Not only that, but Wal-Mart offers millions of job opportunities which require minimal skills and no college degree, thus helping out the little guy in a slow-to-recover economy. While many disagree with some of the company’s policies, Rowe is not the company’s spokesperson and he is not paid to represent it.

“Wal-Mart’s initiative on American manufacturing and my foundation’s focus share a lot of real estate,” Rowe said on CNN’s New Day. “In 2008, I started a foundation that basically said, ‘Work is a beautiful thing.’ Now, there’s a campaign by the largest retailer on the planet saying, ‘work is a beautiful thing.’

The foundation Rowe is talking about, the MikeRoweWORKS Foundation, launched on Labor Day 2008 and is “concerned with promoting hard work and supporting the skilled trades in a variety of areas.” The foundation encourages young people to pursue an education at a trade school or apprenticeship program to learn a specific skill set, especially if these students are not going to pursue higher education at a 4-year university or college.

There is a simple, yet sometimes hard truth to swallow: not every kid is going to go to college or will not stay in college because it just doesn’t suit them or they do not have the financial means to pursue a 4-year degree. The U.S. has pushed programs like No Child Left Behind or Race to the Top without thinking that these programs, especially No Child Left Behind, may preclude some students from getting ahead because they are not encouraged to take the route that is right for them.

Rowe understands this and he understands that affording college does not only mean paying for tuition and classes while a student is in college, but also the enormous debt they will have to pay once they get out of college. Right now, while the labor market is not very friendly to many people, it is especially not a place for recent graduates.

There are millions of jobs out there that do not require a college degree, but they do require a specific type of skill so there is a need for vocational schools and training programs to get Americans back to work. One of the biggest problems, as Mike Rowe noted in his interview with New Day, is the cultural mindset is that if a person does not pursue and obtain a 4-year degree, that person will be a failure and that simply is not true.

Creating jobs in America, especially manufacturing jobs that help the “little guy,” is not a partisan issue. It is something most people want. So, why is the focus being put on Mike Rowe and not his message? His interviews have been some of the best I have seen on CNN because he speaks so well on the need to close the skills gap in the United States, and yet the media continues to focus on the social media backlash on Rowe for doing the Wal-Mart spot.

Anti Federalist
10-09-2019, 04:20 PM
So, a privately arranged agreement to source items manufactured here, isn't any good either, huh?

Look, I'm no fan of the regime in the District of Calamity either.

But there is more to 'Murica, than the government.

As much as I bash Boobus, he's still all our neighbors and family.

You keep pushing Boobus out of work and onto the dole, and, when the dole runs out, as we all know it will, then Boobus will revolt.

He will revolt in the manner of the Bolshevik.

I can see no reason to oppose a non governmental initiative to try and get Boobus back to work and off the dole, other than blind, knee jerk hatred of, you know, 'Murika.

Fucking Cassandra...

Swordsmyth
10-09-2019, 04:41 PM
$#@!ing Cassandra...

China knows how it will work, that's why they have been waging economic warfare against us.
Trump came along just in time.