Has mentioning how many troops die changed anyone's mind?

[James R]

To me when people say "5,000 troops died... how many more are we willing to sacrifice" it seems like something like a number that was completely expected by virtually all Republicans that vote, and also something nearly every Republican already knows. I can't imagine anyone would be swayed by the deaths. But do you know anyone who has been swayed by the number of deaths? Maybe if 10,000 troops died then it would be different, but I think 10,000 was the expectation when we went in. A few decades ago millions of people died in wars and the 5,000 figure would only make the news if it was in a single day.

I think people expected this cost in lives. I think people did not expect the length of time and the financial cost. So if you are trying to sway someone you would ask them how long they expected us to be in Iraq and how much they expected it to cost. I just can't imagine mentioning the number of lives lost would sway even a small fraction of Republicans.

[awigo50]

A single death is a tragedy.... A million deaths is a statistic

I think he's better off without the statistic.
Most people won't be swayed by the number.
They'll be swayed by the idea, an anecdote, or neither.

[TruckinMike]

If you mention a baby's death, an old man or woman's, or any iraqi in general the perception that you create in a pro-war republican's mind is that you are a LIBERAL hippie freak. THIS is a major screw up with Ron Paul campaign. The antiwar stratagy needs to use only blowback/monetary principals. Use hardened logic! NO emotional heart-string garb!

Remember - Republicans pride themselves on logic, and they will tell you that freedom isn't free. And In war - death happens. You must use logic in a convincing way to sway them. Using the liberal death argument will gaurantee they will walk away in disgust... all the while thinking Ron Paul supporters are socialists pinko commies in disguise.

TruckinMike

[robert4rp08]

mention the 20% that end up with traumatic brain injuries. mention the thousands with post-traumatic stress disorder. mention all of the iraqi civilians that have been wounded and killed. mention the destruction of iraq's infrastructure.

make the war real.

[RPFTW!]

Don't forget to mention that an estimated 200,000 more will die from 'unidentified' illnesses just like nam and gulf war 1. *cough* depleted uranium /*cough*

[Perry]

Unfortunately the media often fails to comment on the civilians lost. Few would argue that this number is less than tenfold our loss. Are Iraqis any less valuable?

[RPFTW!]

Unfortunately the media often fails to comment on the civilians lost. Few would argue that this number is less than tenfold our loss. Are Iraqis any less valuable?

Exactly the FBI estimated there were only 18,000 terrorists out there but we have killed 1,000,000 Iraqis

[llepard]

Exactly the FBI estimated there were only 18,000 terrorists out there but we have killed 1,000,000 Iraqis

Neocons have blood on their hands. Sickos.

[billjarrett]

If you mention a baby's death, an old man or woman's, or any iraqi in general the perception that you create in a pro-war republican's mind is that you are a LIBERAL hippie freak. THIS is a major screw up with Ron Paul campaign. The antiwar stratagy needs to use only blowback/monetary principals. Use hardened logic! NO emotional heart-string garb!

Remember - Republicans pride themselves on logic, and they will tell you that freedom isn't free. And In war - death happens. You must use logic in a convincing way to sway them. Using the liberal death argument will gaurantee they will walk away in disgust... all the while thinking Ron Paul supporters are socialists pinko commies in disguise.

TruckinMike

I agree 100%. I was previously a "pro-war" Republican. Not really pro-war per se, but I wasn't sold on the democrat anti war message and thought they were kooks (still do). Problem with the democrat message was they just wanted to pull out of Iraq and keep everything else status quo (well originally, now they want to stay in Iraq a few more years). I was converted over after hearing the whole package. Change in foreign policy, blowback, economic issues, etc. It's really hard to do in a 30 second soundbite.

Also, I'm a vet, and have friends over there now. But playing the emotional angle did not work on me, and probably wont on most Republicans. We do still have a volunteer military, and most that don't agree with the war have had plenty of time to ETS by now.

[Corydoras]

Very few people think rationally about death. Ron Paul has mentioned a number of times that every month, more Americans die in car accidents than died in the 9/11 attacks, but it doesn't seem to change people's minds about the War on Terror.

[ksuguy]

If you mention a baby's death, an old man or woman's, or any iraqi in general the perception that you create in a pro-war republican's mind is that you are a LIBERAL hippie freak. THIS is a major screw up with Ron Paul campaign. The antiwar stratagy needs to use only blowback/monetary principals. Use hardened logic! NO emotional heart-string garb!


Yep. I wish some of our more liberal supporters would realize this. This tactic works great when you are talking to democrats and anti-war people. However, it fails miserably and repels people when you are talking to conservative republicans.

I like to focus on the other issues and not go after Iraq too much. I'll discuss it if they bring it up though. The main thing is to focus on the financial cost, and the fact that we didn't do it the right way with an official declaration of war.

[Maverick]

Are Iraqis any less valuable?

I think that, to a neocon or a neocon supporter, the answer to that would be "yes."

[Original_Intent]

Exactly the FBI estimated there were only 18,000 terrorists out there but we have killed 1,000,000 Iraqis

There WERE 18,000 terrorists. How many parents, brothers and friends of those slain million have jopined the terrorists? I know if some foreign country bombed my neighborhood, and a family member or loved one died, I would be looking for where to sign up.

Rudy says they hate us for our freedom of religion and freedom for women. Someone needs to point out that Osama worked for us in Afghanistan not that many years ago, and we had those freedoms back then. Something else changed in our relationship (not defending Osama one bit, I am saying simple logic refutes Giuliani). Maybe that something was 500,000 Iraqi children dead due to our sanctions and bases in Saudi Arabia.

Same goes for Saddam. he was our puppet fighting against Iran. Then he TELLS the US that he is going to invade Kuwait and we say "Go ahead, we don't care about your arab-arab conflicts" and then when he does what he told us weeks in advance he planned to do (and we tacitly sanctioned) Desert Storm under Bush I.

[akovacs]

I never use troop deaths. I am not a veteran and have no credability in that department. I say I'd like to save them for use here and stick mainly with blowback and monetary side effects.

Some people really think about it when they see how much it costs.

[Spirit of '76]

No. Around here it's too personal.

We have the highest number of troops serving per capita. Always have.

[walt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xYeuzG24mo get anyone to wach "why we fight" ask them to think...

[runderwo]

Hasn't worked with anyone I've mentioned it too. They always shoot right back with "Well, they signed up for it".

[ronpaulfan]

We need exact war statistics:

# of deaths in combat
# of deaths from suicide
# of serious injuries
# of soldiers shot (no, bullets + shrapnel arn't classified as serious injuries)


If anyone can find out the # of soldiers shot, it will shock the country. My guess is over 50,000 US soldiers have been shot in this war.

[Roxi]

i don't know but showing people pictures of dead civilians, and soldiers holding dead or wounded children have changed a few (sorry im blunt like that)