FBI hype "Lasers"

[tod evans]

"Strikes" is the term used describing what is most likely pranks by teens.

Lord knows the FBI needs to get involved in this and bring these scofflaws to "Just-Us"..

Saddle them with a federal jacket for life, prohibit firearm ownership/voting/travel etc...

How dare they!:rolleyes:



FBI launches campaign to crack down on laser strikes against aircraft

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/11/fbi-launches-campaign-to-crack-down-on-laser-strikes-against-aircraft/?intcmp=latestnews

The FBI is cracking down on laser strikes against commercial aircraft, offering a reward for the public's help in identifying perpetrators and saying the potentially deadly crimes have risen dramatically nationwide.

"Laser incidents are often viewed as harmless acts," FBI Assistant Director in Charge George Venizelos said in a statement Tuesday. "This couldn’t be further from the truth."

"A laser pointed at a plane’s cockpit could blind a pilot and down an aircraft ... We are asking anyone who knows anything about the recent spate of incidents to pick up the phone and call the FBI for the safety of all who fly," Venizelos said.

The FBI said laser-targeting of planes is becoming more common nationwide, and such incidents were up by 39 percent in New York state last year. The agency announced Tuesday that a $10,000 reward is being offered for any information leading to the arrest of those who aim or have aimed a laser at an aircraft.

"Since the FBI began tracking laser strikes in 2005, statistics reflect a more than 1,100 percent increase nationwide in the deliberate targeting of aircraft by people with hand-held lasers," the agency said in a statement.

The New York City area is home to three major airports, and federal law enforcement cite several incidents in which pilots and their crews flying into the state were injured. According to the FBI, the most recent injury occurred on Dec. 26, 2013, as a JetBlue flight approached New York’s John F. Kennedy International Airport. The pilot of that plane was temporarily blinded by a laser and experienced blurry vision for a week following the incident.

Patrick Murphy, a laser expert whose website is well-recognized on the issue, described such incidents as "potentially serious problems" and said many people are not aware of a laser's effect on an aircraft.

"A single laser itself would not bring down an aircraft but it could be a contributing factor in another emergency incident," Murphy said. "Most aircraft accidents are not caused by a single factor."

But, he noted, a laser could be deadly in certain instances. Murphy referenced the 2009 emergency landing during which Chesley Burnett "Sully" Sullenberger, now a retired airline captain, was forced to land US Airways Flight 1549 into New York's Hudson River after the plane was disabled when it struck a flock of geese during its climb out of LaGuardia Airport.

Sullenberger brought the plane down safely, but the outcome might have been catastrophic "had someone been pointing a laser at the plane at that time," Murphy said.

"Most people on the ground don't realize that at aircraft altitude, the laser is a big blurb of light that the pilots cant see through," he told FoxNews.com. "They think that it's just going to be a little amusing dot on the windshield."

He said pilots can avert disaster "if they know what to do" but noted that the FAA needs to do more to educate pilots on how to handle such incidents.

"We think the laser is going to be the wrong thing at the wrong time and could be the straw that breaks the camel’s back," Murphy said.

Anyone with information on laser strikes against aircraft is urged to call the FBI at 212-384-1000. Tipsters may remain anonymous.

[puppetmaster]

If you have ever piloted an aircraft you will know it is not blinding and is easily ignored. Plus it is very difficult to point and stay on target with a hand held device hitting a small glass opening a mile away and moving

[tod evans]

If you have ever piloted an aircraft you will know it is not blinding and is easily ignored. Plus it is very difficult to point and stay on target with a hand held device hitting a small glass opening a mile away and moving

This isn't about safety it's about justification...

[FriedChicken]

See when I first read this I thought maybe it could interfere with a sensor or something ... but blinding the pilot?? Dear goodness. That does seem far stretched.

[torchbearer]

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=71371&d=1379424513

[jkr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voSpOrimkMY

[asurfaholic]

I saw in a video clip on the news the other day that showed a view from the cockpit of a flying plane at night. And coming from the ground was a huge beam of light, it looked like a light saber.

Are you telling me that the news would over exaggerate the effects of lasers?

[Danke]

It is not hype.

http://www.laserpointersafety.com/laser-hazards_aircraft/laser-hazards_aircraft.html

[fisharmor]

Um.... quick question......
....If the concern is that pilots will be blinded, why are airliners flying upside-down?

[fisharmor]

It is not hype.

http://www.laserpointersafety.com/laser-hazards_aircraft/laser-hazards_aircraft.html

Well, yes, yes it IS hype.

It's the exact kind of hype that has us strapping children into 5-point harnesses until they've graduated from high school at this point, despite the utter lack of a mountain of dead babies.

Until planes start crashing and reports start coming in that the cause was laser pointers, it is exactly the dictionary definition of hype.

[ClydeCoulter]

"Ban lasers"!





/sarc

[jbauer]

Um.... quick question......
....If the concern is that pilots will be blinded, why are airliners flying upside-down?

Actually the laser people are using mirrors that Ed Snowden and the Muslims convinced the Chinese, Russians and Teaparty to put into the air. That way they can shine it into space, off a mirror and back into the cockpit. All while the plane is flying at 300 miles an hour 40k feet in the air.

[Cleaner44]

He said pilots can avert disaster "if they know what to do" but noted that the FAA needs to do more to educate pilots on how to handle such incidents.

Can't someone simply tell the pilots to stop looking at the ground when flying in the air?

[ClydeCoulter]

It is not hype.

http://www.laserpointersafety.com/laser-hazards_aircraft/laser-hazards_aircraft.html

From the link:

http://www.laserpointersafety.com/laser-hazards_aircraft/files/runwayanim03-glare2008-1sec.gif

It would still be a very quick flash or flashes. Might be somewhat annoying. That laser appears to be more than just a normal laser pointer, though.

[Henry Rogue]

Complete nonsense. I use lasers in construction all the time, been beamed in the eyes hundreds of times and at close range. It's ridiculous to think this will harm pilots or affect air safety.

[Occam's Banana]

But, [Murphy] noted, a laser could be deadly in certain instances. Murphy referenced the 2009 emergency landing during which Chesley Burnett "Sully" Sullenberger, now a retired airline captain, was forced to land US Airways Flight 1549 into New York's Hudson River after the plane was disabled when it struck a flock of geese during its climb out of LaGuardia Airport.

Sullenberger brought the plane down safely, but the outcome might have been catastrophic "had someone been pointing a laser at the plane at that time," Murphy said.

So let me get this straight ...

Murphy's BEST example of the "deadliness" of "lasers" is an incident in which (1) NO "lasers" were involved, AND (2) no one died.
Got it. To hell with SAMs - we're clearly in for BIG trouble if terrorirsts ever start deploying "lasers" in tandem with flocks of geese ...


"Ban lasers"!

Right after we ban birds ...

[FriedChicken]

It is not hype.

http://www.laserpointersafety.com/laser-hazards_aircraft/laser-hazards_aircraft.html

thanks for the link, it answered a lot of questions.

[klamath]

As Danke said it is not a joke. Try getting hit with a laser on a dark approach when you are relying on your night vision when the rod cells in your eyes are making you eyes 10,000 times more sensitive. Yeaw just some teenagers.... and some of them think it is funny to throw dummies off overpasses to see the effect.

[Occam's Banana]

The OP article is clearly "hype." Saying it is "hype" is NOT the same as saying "there's nothing wrong about any of it."
In fact, "hype" almost always has some kernel of truth at its base - otherwise, there would be nothing to "hype" ...

[FriedChicken]

Hype or not I don't know. Seems like splitting hairs to me.

After reading Danke's link I'm taking the act more seriously. a tiny 1mm laser is actually several inches wide when it reaches the plane (depending on how high they're flying) so I can see how it would be a sizable hazard.
I've honestly never thought about it much.

So - the act itself is serious and if someone is caught doing it repeatedly (at least one formal warning) then I think there should be consequences. If you're knowingly doing something that could cause a plain crash ... that is an act of violence, not just a prank.

I don't think some kid playing with a laser who gets caught for the first time should face any charges, just a warning.


... but I don't see how you can catch people doing this without wasting a ton of resources on the effort, and after doing all that the cops won't want to "just" give them a warning.
How could you even prove that is what they were doing?

I think they're just making it a "serious offense" so that fewer people do it. They'll arrest someone when convenient so the stories get in newspapers and to make an example.
If the FBI starts flying around in helicopters trying to find laser pointers ... I'm not a big conspiracy guy but you'd have to be pretty stupid to not realize that is a cover story for something they don't want to tell us about.

[Danke]

People don't realize how powerful laser are these days. My friend can sit across the bar and put a tiny hole in a plastic drink cup.

Yes, pilots have been temporarily blinded at night. Not something you want when close to the ground on landings or takeoffs.

[FriedChicken]

People don't realize how powerful laser are these days. My friend can sit across the bar and put a tiny hole in a plastic drink cup.

Yes, pilots have been temporarily blinded at night. Not something you want when close to the ground on landings or takeoffs.

I think the list of situations where you don't want to be temporarily blinded would be much longer than that - while the list of scenarios where it would be desirable would surely be much shorter.

I'll start:
1. walking in on your parents ... ya know ... never mind. That wouldn't happen in a plane anyway ... oh gosh I hope not ...

[Acala]

So let me get this straight ...

Murphy's BEST example of the "deadliness" of "lasers" is an incident in which (1) NO "lasers" were involved, AND (2) no one died.
Got it. To hell with SAMs - we're clearly in for BIG trouble if terrorirsts ever start deploying "lasers" in tandem with flocks of geese ...



It is presumed that the goose that flew into the engine was blinded by a laser.

[osan]

What a load of bullshit.

[osan]

People don't realize how powerful laser are these days. My friend can sit across the bar and put a tiny hole in a plastic drink cup.

Yes, pilots have been temporarily blinded at night. Not something you want when close to the ground on landings or takeoffs.

OK, lets get a few things straight. The hand-held laser pointers are measured in milliwatts, typically with less than 5 mw output. This is not going to damage anyone's eyes, though it can be painful at close range. I found that out first hand when one day I turned one on thinking it was a pen. It was made to look like a pen, so I can claim not to be a complete imbecile, but only partial.

There is a whole classification scheme. Typical pointers are class II, 1 - 5 mw.

A class 4 which is around 1 W (1000 mw) might be dangerous, and there are lasers readily available up to 100W. THAT would be dangerous in the extreme and were anyone to point such a thing at ANYONE'S eyes, pilot or otherwise, shooting them dead would be easily justified.

But to assert that pointing a 1 mw laser as an aircraft constitutes a "strike" leaves the FBI looking like a raft of imbecilic jackanapes. With each such use of absurd hyperbole their credibility slips several notches. They are, in a word, idiots - whosever idea it was to make such bombasitcally stupid statements.

[Root]

Terrorists

[Danke]

Believe what you guys wish, but handheld lasers are causing problems in the cockpit. Here are some for sale that can cause the temp blindness: http://www.warnlaser.com/Laser_pointer/500mw-200mw-100mw-50mw-uv-violet-laser-pointer-razor-series

[klamath]

OK, lets get a few things straight. The hand-held laser pointers are measured in milliwatts, typically with less than 5 mw output. This is not going to damage anyone's eyes, though it can be painful at close range. I found that out first hand when one day I turned one on thinking it was a pen. It was made to look like a pen, so I can claim not to be a complete imbecile, but only partial.

There is a whole classification scheme. Typical pointers are class II, 1 - 5 mw.

A class 4 which is around 1 W (1000 mw) might be dangerous, and there are lasers readily available up to 100W. THAT would be dangerous in the extreme and were anyone to point such a thing at ANYONE'S eyes, pilot or otherwise, shooting them dead would be easily justified.

But to assert that pointing a 1 mw laser as an aircraft constitutes a "strike" leaves the FBI looking like a raft of imbecilic jackanapes. With each such use of absurd hyperbole their credibility slips several notches. They are, in a word, idiots - whosever idea it was to make such bombasitcally stupid statements.Why don't you try and run at full speed through a obstacle course and night using you night vision then have someone pop a laser in your eyes. Keep running because you can't stop while your eyes readjust. Hit one obstacle consider yourself dead.

[klamath]

Well it will be the people that think it is funny and harmless to point them at aircraft the will make it impossible to get a useful tool.
Believe what you guys wish, but handheld lasers are causing problems in the cockpit. Here are some for sale that can cause the temp blindness: http://www.warnlaser.com/Laser_pointer/500mw-200mw-100mw-50mw-uv-violet-laser-pointer-razor-series

[osan]

Why don't you try and run at full speed through a obstacle course and night using you night vision then have someone pop a laser in your eyes. Keep running because you can't stop while your eyes readjust. Hit one obstacle consider yourself dead.

Sometimes you appear not to read very carefully. That, or you have a gift for non sequitur.

While I'm at it, I should add that I did neglect to mention that the frequency of the laser makes a difference. The lower the wavelength, the higher the specific energy. The IRF lasers are less troublesome to the eye than are, say, green, for a given power output. The link Danke provided above refers to UVF lasers of at least 50mw, which is 10x the power of the typical laser pointer used in a boardroom presentation. UV is inherently problematic due to its nature and I would agree that putting a 50 mw or greater laser into the eyes of anyone is not good. Some stoopid kids with dad's 1mw pointer should not be cause to send a SWAT team in. Someone blasting you with an 80W unit should not live to see the next sunrise.

[asurfaholic]

I don't think its funny or cute. But I question the motives of the government, and I am sure safety takes a backseat to more control.

I imagine they are considering laser ownership a prohibited action, and possession of a laser is to be caught with weapons of terroristic proportions.

What I don't have a problem with is the actual law that prohibits shining a laser purposefully at an aircraft, and any pilot who is hit with a laser should be able to somehow report the incident with location info. A fair investigation and a fair trial and a conviction with appropriate sentencing would not ruffle my feathers...

[klamath]

Sometimes you appear not to read very carefully. That, or you have a gift for non sequitur.

While I'm at it, I should add that I did neglect to mention that the frequency of the laser makes a difference. The lower the wavelength, the higher the specific energy. The IRF lasers are less troublesome to the eye than are, say, green, for a given power output. The link Danke provided above refers to UVF lasers of at least 50mw, which is 10x the power of the typical laser pointer used in a boardroom presentation. UV is inherently problematic due to its nature and I would agree that putting a 50 mw or greater laser into the eyes of anyone is not good. Some stoopid kids with dad's 1mw pointer should not be cause to send a SWAT team in. Someone blasting you with an 80W unit should not live to see the next sunrise.My apologies for misreading your post.
The problem with any laser at night is the fact that the pilots are using night vision. When a 1 MW laser beam hits your eyes in that condition it does cause temporary blindness. This in a critical flight profile can be catastrophic. I agree that swat teams arresting stupid teens is bullshit because they should be informed it can be harmful and not blown off as a joke like many on this thread did.

In biological night vision, molecules of rhodopsin in the rods of the eye undergo a change in shape as they absorb light. Rhodopsin is the chemical that allows night-vision, and is extremely sensitive to light. Exposed to a spectrum of light, the pigment immediately bleaches, and it takes about 30 minutes to regenerate fully, but most of the adaptation occurs within the first five or ten minutes in the dark

[klamath]

double post

[tpreitzel]

Airlines and their employees should both have the capability of DEFENDING themselves as appropriate. Stop playing the role of a nanny. Welcome to the world of technology.

[asurfaholic]

Airlines and their employees should both have the capability of DEFENDING themselves as appropriate. Stop playing the role of a nanny. Welcome to the world of technology.

I suggest a companion predator drone mandatory for every flight. See laser or unexpected light? Send a few hellfire missiles to the relative area! There problem solved.

[Spikender]

Life in prison for endangering an airplane full of people sounds about right for being a guy who points a laser up into the sky.

[puppetmaster]

Why don't you try and run at full speed through a obstacle course and night using you night vision then have someone pop a laser in your eyes. Keep running because you can't stop while your eyes readjust. Hit one obstacle consider yourself dead. commercial pilots do not usually use night vision during flight and they are usually guided in by
GCA or other assistance.

Can a laser blind? Of course but is it a major issue in the industry....NO.

BTW that picture looks like it was a laser from within the cockpit.