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tsai3904
02-10-2014, 08:14 PM
UPDATE: The House passed a clean debt limit suspension bill by 221-201. Here's the roll call: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2014/roll061.xml

The bill suspends the debt limit until March 15, 2015.

Madison320
02-11-2014, 11:24 AM
I don't know if it makes a big difference but if this passes it makes it official that suspending not raising the debt ceiling is now the new normal. This will be the third time in a row.

Lucille
02-11-2014, 11:45 AM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-11/boehner-keeps-folding-now-proposes-clean-debt-ceiling-bill


A week ago, we reported that unlike on previous occasions, this time Boehner decided to fold like a lawn chair early in this year's debt ceiling hike debate, and sure enough moments ago Politico confirmed as much when it reported that "House Republicans are abandoning their plan to lift the debt limit and restore military pension cuts due to flagging support from the rank and file. The announcement was made Tuesday morning in a private GOP meeting." As we also predicted, Politico adds that "now, the GOP will have to pass a so-called clean lift of the debt ceiling — one without policy strings attached. But even that won’t be easy. Senior Republican lawmakers and aides are openly wondering just how many of their members will vote for a clean debt ceiling — Democrats will have to bear the brunt of passing the bill, GOP insiders say." And the punchline for the vote, which is set for Wednesday, "Senior GOP sources wonder if they’ll be able to get 18 Republicans to vote for a debt ceiling increase — the bare minimum for passage if every Democrat votes yes."

To summarize: the GOP may have trouble being more Democrat than the Democrats.

In other news, perhaps it is about time for the GOP to eliminate any pretense of "fiscal conservatism" and finally do away with the debt ceiling farce entirely so they can at least show their voters what their true colors really are.

It is a farce.

Lucille
02-11-2014, 01:11 PM
"Dear John, It's Over!" - Tea Party Group Launches "Replace Boehner" Petition
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-11/dear-john-its-over-tea-party-group-launches-replace-boehner-petition


Having folded (twice) once again, a growing number of Republicans are increasingly disavowed with Speaker Boehner. As WaPo reports, the Senate Conservatives Fund (a Tea Party group) is calling for the Speaker's job, noting "unless we install a new leader who will actually go on offense, Democrats will never fear us and we will never have any leverage." The group is launching a petition that seeks to encourage at least 15 House Republicans to refuse to support Boehner for speaker...

Also here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?443851-quot-Dear-John-It-s-Over!-quot-Tea-Party-Group-Launches-quot-Replace-Boehner-quot-Petition).

Occam's Banana
02-11-2014, 02:47 PM
*insert carousel calliope-music here*

Seraphim
02-11-2014, 02:51 PM
Holy frig. Giving the Dems just over a year of no debt limit?

20T coming right up!

tsai3904
02-11-2014, 02:52 PM
FYI, the House will now be voting on a clean debt limit bill later today. The bill in the first post didn't gather enough GOP support.

Lucille
02-11-2014, 03:11 PM
FYI, the House will now be voting on a clean debt limit bill later today. The bill in the first post didn't gather enough GOP support.

"Clean" meaning everything O Duce and his BSC! progs want.

Feeding the Abscess
02-11-2014, 03:12 PM
Anarchists!

Tod
02-11-2014, 04:01 PM
*insert carousel calliope-music here*

will this work?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuXWpThaTEI

ctiger2
02-11-2014, 04:23 PM
Anarchists!

lol! Don't you wish.

tsai3904
02-11-2014, 04:29 PM
Debt limit suspension bill passed 221-201. 28 Republicans voted for and 2 Democrats voted against the bill.

Lucille
02-11-2014, 04:34 PM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-11/house-passes-clean-debt-ceiling-221-201-vast-majority-republicans-voting-against


The clean debt ceiling bill has just passed the House where it got the required majority in a 221 to 201 final vote, with less than 30 republicans voting Aye, which means that with a Senate passage assured, the US can now spend away until March 15, 2015. However, considering that the vast majority of Republicans voted against John Boehner's latest "plan" to do the Democrats' work for them, and pass a clean debt ceiling, perhaps it is time to look for a speaker who represents the interests of more than just a tiny fraction of the party... and the Democrats of course.

Please sign the Replace the Speaker petition: http://www.replacethespeaker.com/?c=aabcbf230045ef08b2f0e238917dae4e

Lucille
02-11-2014, 04:49 PM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-11/house-passes-clean-debt-ceiling-221-201-vast-majority-republicans-voting-against


“I’m grateful to the speaker and the Republican leadership for giving this House this opportunity to act in a way that is consistent with the constitution,” said Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., speaking in the chamber in advance of the vote. “I thank my Democratic colleagues for never wavering from this position and standing firm on behalf of all Americans.”

LOL

Occam's Banana
02-11-2014, 04:52 PM
will this work?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuXWpThaTEI

It'll do. Though it might be a little too dignified.

Send in the clowns ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4yOe0cLJeo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4yOe0cLJeo

tsai3904
02-11-2014, 04:55 PM
Roll call:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2014/roll061.xml

ssunlimited
02-11-2014, 05:38 PM
Can I ask a question? My representative Michael Grimm voted yes for this. Remember he is that guy who threatened to kill a reporter. He also seems to not understand science(weather) as I got this message on Facebook. Should I vote him out this year?

jurgs01
02-11-2014, 05:42 PM
Roll call:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2014/roll061.xml

28 RINOs voting for this, and we only have eight liberty candidates challenging six of them?
https://www.facebook.com/candidates4libertydotcom/posts/221511444701032

We need to be challenging all 28 of these anti-liberty representatives!

DamianTV
02-11-2014, 05:59 PM
Can I ask a question? My representative Michael Grimm voted yes for this. Remember he is that guy who threatened to kill a reporter. He also seems to not understand science(weather) as I got this message on Facebook. Should I vote him out this year?

No one can really make a decision for you. I think that all any one person could ask of another person is to try to make an educated guess as to the best possible course of action. Get some information, process it, draw a conclusion, then challenge that conclusion to see if it holds up against attacks. If conclusion doesnt survive, revise conclusion, if it does survive, share the conclusion to allow others to challenge and also accept or reject it.

This is information that you probably wont have. Voting simply for this specific bill or not is not enough to draw a meaningful conclusion. What is Grimms voting history as far as Abolish the Fed, or bills to Audit the Fed? Those will reveal better as to your best course of action.

Madison320
02-11-2014, 06:01 PM
28 RINOs voting for this, and we only have eight liberty candidates challenging six of them?
https://www.facebook.com/candidates4libertydotcom/posts/221511444701032

We need to be challenging all 28 of these anti-liberty representatives!

I'm not sure the ones that voted against are that great either. How many of them would vote against raising the debt ceiling, period? The only debate should be how to prioritize the actual revenue we currently have coming in.

tsai3904
02-11-2014, 06:10 PM
Ted Cruz will demand a 60 vote threshold on suspending the debt ceiling. 5 Rs will need to vote to invoke cloture.


U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, today released the following statement regarding his objection to any effort to raise the debt ceiling with a simple majority vote:

"If you ask anybody outside of Washington whether we should keep increasing the debt ceiling without fixing the underlying problem of out-of-control spending, the answer is ‘of course not.’ This answer cuts across party lines and ideology—outside the Beltway, Republicans, Democrats, Independents, and Libertarians all agree that living within your means is basic common sense. And yet Washington is not listening to the American people.

“Under President Obama, our national debt has increased from $10 trillion to $17 trillion, and now the President is asking for yet another blank check to keep increasing our debt without doing anything to reform Washington’s spending problem. This is wrong, and it’s irresponsible. Our parents didn’t do this to us, and we shouldn’t do it to our kids and grandkids.

“Historically, the debt ceiling has proven the most effective leverage for reining in spending; 28 times, Congress has attached meaningful conditions to debt ceiling increases. We should do so again to address the real problem. I intend to object to any effort to raise the debt ceiling on a 50-vote threshold. I will insist instead on a 60-vote threshold, and if Republicans stand together we can demand meaningful spending restraint to help pull our nation back from the fiscal and economic cliff.”

http://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=920

devil21
02-11-2014, 06:41 PM
I'm confused. Bloomberg is reporting as of an hour ago that the House passed the March 15th 2015 suspension, not a "clean debt limit raise" bill. So pending a Senate pass of this, is the debt limit basically gone?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-11/house-republicans-seek-democratic-help-for-debt-limit.html



The House of Representatives voted to suspend the U.S. debt limit until March 2015, giving a win to President Barack Obama and Democrats in Congress who insisted that the ceiling be lifted without conditions.

The measure passed today 221-201.

The plan goes to the Democratic-led Senate, where Majority Leader Harry Reid said the chamber will act as soon as possible. Obama and Senate Democrats had refused to negotiate on raising the debt limit, and U.S. companies sought assurance that the government wouldn’t exhaust its borrowing authority.

OTOH, Zerohedge and others are using terminology that sounds like the debt ceiling was raised the old fashioned way. ZH doesn't even mention the word "suspension". :confused:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-11/house-passes-clean-debt-ceiling-221-201-vast-majority-republicans-voting-against

ssunlimited
02-11-2014, 07:26 PM
No one can really make a decision for you. I think that all any one person could ask of another person is to try to make an educated guess as to the best possible course of action. Get some information, process it, draw a conclusion, then challenge that conclusion to see if it holds up against attacks. If conclusion doesnt survive, revise conclusion, if it does survive, share the conclusion to allow others to challenge and also accept or reject it.

This is information that you probably wont have. Voting simply for this specific bill or not is not enough to draw a meaningful conclusion. What is Grimms voting history as far as Abolish the Fed, or bills to Audit the Fed? Those will reveal better as to your best course of action.

Well I need a little bit of help learning about my congressmen. I am just a regular Ron Paul-supporting person. I don't know who to vote for in elections except for president and maybe senators.

EDIT: Grimm voted for full audit of the federal reserve: http://grimm.house.gov/press-release/rep-grimm-votes-full-audit-federal-reserve "Rep. Grimm is a cosponsor of H.R. 459, which was authored by Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)."
What other issues should I research about him?

jurgs01
02-11-2014, 07:29 PM
Well I need a little bit of help learning about my congressmen. I am just a regular Ron Paul-supporting person. I don't know who to vote for in elections except for president and maybe senators.

www.candidates4liberty.com

tsai3904
02-11-2014, 07:30 PM
I'm confused. Bloomberg is reporting as of an hour ago that the House passed the March 15th 2015 suspension, not a "clean debt limit raise" bill. So pending a Senate pass of this, is the debt limit basically gone?

The last several debt limit "increases" have come due to suspending the debt limit. Basically, the debt limit is suspended for a period of time (allowing the Treasury to borrow as much as needed), then the limit is raised by the amount borrowed after the suspension period.

bunklocoempire
02-11-2014, 07:31 PM
It's way the heck over there in next March but I can still clearly see the can.

tsai3904
02-11-2014, 07:34 PM
Well I need a little bit of help learning about my congressmen. I am just a regular Ron Paul-supporting person. I don't know who to vote for in elections except for president and maybe senators.

EDIT: Grimm voted for full audit of the federal reserve: http://grimm.house.gov/press-release/rep-grimm-votes-full-audit-federal-reserve
What other issues should I research about him?

He's one of the worst there is. He's bad on fiscal issues, foreign policy, and privacy issues.

Check out scorecards from FreedomWorks and Club for Growth. They're not libertarian scorecards but they are good on fiscal issues.

http://congress.freedomworks.org/legislators/michael-grimm
http://www.clubforgrowth.org/projects/scorecard/?year=2012&chamber=2&state=Any&party=Any&memberName=

devil21
02-11-2014, 09:37 PM
The last several debt limit "increases" have come due to suspending the debt limit. Basically, the debt limit is suspended for a period of time (allowing the Treasury to borrow as much as needed), then the limit is raised by the amount borrowed after the suspension period.

Whenever the debt limit was raised, it was tagged with a future nominal national debt dollar figure at which point the limit would have to be raised again. That isn't happening any more so in practical effect, there is no debt limit any more. Now it's just dates on a calendar and "spend as much as you want, destroy the currency however much you want in that period of time." Correct?

I already covered this and predicted the current situation in this thread here:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?430781-There-is-no-debt-ceiling-any-more

My confusion comes more from the lack of uniformity in media reports of the status of the debt limit legislation.

tsai3904
02-11-2014, 11:07 PM
Whenever the debt limit was raised, it was tagged with a future nominal national debt dollar figure at which point the limit would have to be raised again. That isn't happening any more so in practical effect, there is no debt limit any more. Now it's just dates on a calendar and "spend as much as you want, destroy the currency however much you want in that period of time." Correct?

Before 2013, the debt limit would be raised to a specific dollar amount. Since 2013, the debt limit has been suspended for a period of time. It started with HR 325, the No Budget, No Pay Act signed in February 2013, which suspended the debt limit to May 2013. Then, HR 2775 suspended the debt limit to this month. Now, there's today's bill, which suspends the limit to March 2015.

devil21
02-12-2014, 02:47 AM
List of Republicans that voted for it.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/list-Republicans-support-debt/2014/02/11/id/552285#ixzz2t5cwpuTV


Here are the 28 Republicans in the House of Representatives who voted on Tuesday to increase the debt ceiling:

House Speaker John Boehner, Ohio.

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, Va.

House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy, Calif.

Chairman of House Ways and Means Committee, Dave Camp, Mich.

Chairman of House Oversight Committee, Darrell Issa, Calif.

Chairman of House Appropriations Committee, Hal Rogers, Ky.

Chairman of House Armed Services Committee, Buck McKeon, Calif.

Chairman of House Foreign Affairs Committee Ed Royce, Calif.

Chairman of House Natural Resources Committee Doc Hastings, Wash.

Rep. Ken Calvert, Calif.

Rep. Howard Coble, N.C.

Rep. Chris Collins, N.Y.

Rep. Charlie Dent, Pa.

Rep. Michael Fitzpatrick, Pa.

Rep. Michael Grimm, N.Y.

Rep. Richard Hanna, N.Y.

Rep. Peter King, N.Y.

Rep. Frank LoBiondo, N.J.

Rep. Pat Meehan, Pa.

Rep. Gary Miller, Calif.

Rep. Devin Nunes, Calif.

Rep. Dave Reichert, Wash.

Rep. Peter Roskam, Ill.

Rep. Jon Runyan, N.J.

Rep. John Shimkus, Ill.

Rep. Chris Smith, N.J.

Rep. David Valadao, Calif.

Rep. Frank Wolf, Va.

Madison320
02-12-2014, 11:03 AM
Whenever the debt limit was raised, it was tagged with a future nominal national debt dollar figure at which point the limit would have to be raised again. That isn't happening any more so in practical effect, there is no debt limit any more. Now it's just dates on a calendar and "spend as much as you want, destroy the currency however much you want in that period of time." Correct?

I already covered this and predicted the current situation in this thread here:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?430781-There-is-no-debt-ceiling-any-more

My confusion comes more from the lack of uniformity in media reports of the status of the debt limit legislation.

I totally agree. This is the third time in a row that they've suspended it, not raised it. They'll never go back to a "hard" limit. Even thought they always raise it, this is worse because the "speed" at which they borrow no longer matters. At least before if they borrowed at a high rate they'd hit the next ceiling faster.

devil21
02-14-2014, 07:02 PM
Senate passed the bill. Cruz' filibuster threat shot down. We no longer have a debt ceiling in America

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/12/politics/senate-debt-ceiling/.