Polygamy thrives in Utah

[aGameOfThrones]

Salt Lake City (United States) (AFP) - With 17 of their 25 children still living at home, breakfast is a military operation for the Dargers.

As organized chaos unfolds at the family home in the Utah countryside outside Salt Lake City, the parents come to help out.

Alina is the first, followed by her "sister wives" Vicki and Valerie, and finally their husband Joe.

The Dargers are members of a polygamous marriage, a lifestyle they say is endorsed by their fundamentalist Mormon beliefs.

Joe married cousins Alina and Vicki in 1990. Ten years later, Vicki's twin sister Valerie joined them, after her first plural marriage broke down. She brought five children with her from that relationship.

The family has lived openly for several years now, even publishing a 2011 book entitled "Love Times Three".

But for a long time, Joe Darger says he worried that he might be arrested under the anti-polygamy laws in effect in the western US state.

"The fear when I went public four years ago, that fear was very real," he told AFP.

"This is a third degree felony... this is serious prison time. My grandfathers were imprisoned, so that was a real impact that we felt."

That fear has lifted for now, following a December ruling by a federal judge that struck down a key part of the state's anti-polygamy law as unconstitutional.

Judge Clark Waddoups ruled that legislation banning "unlawful cohabitation" was at odds with the constitutional right to freedom of religion.

Alina Darger, who herself works as a lawyer on cases involving polygamy, says the ruling was a relief.

"That's been one of the great things about the ruling -- the decriminalization, and the judge saying basically that the state needs to stay out of people’s bedrooms," she said.

"As long as it's adults freely choosing what they want, then I don't feel it would be my place to tell somebody else you can't choose to love who you love."

But what the Dargers see as unwarranted government intrusion, others see as essential for the protection of women and children.

Marion Munn moved to Utah from Britain after converting to a fundamentalist Mormon faith, and says she was part of a polygamous relationship for 18 years.

"The only way that I can explain it is like living with adultery on a daily basis, and having the woman come home," Munn said.

"On top of that you have to smile and pretend that everything's okay because that's part of the culture too."

She now argues that such marriages are inherently unequal, and often aren't entered into freely.

"Certainly within Mormon-based polygamy, it's not really much of a choice, because Mormon scriptures teach a woman that if she doesn't consent to living in polygamy, God's going to destroy her," Munn explained.

"So for me going into it, I didn't personally want to live it, but I felt compelled to as a matter of faith."

http://news.yahoo.com/polygamy-thrives-utah-071640727.html

[Tywysog Cymru]

I'm sure the average Mormon doesn't want to be associated with polygamy, I wonder what they think of this?

[Christian Liberty]

I'm sure the average Mormon doesn't want to be associated with polygamy, I wonder what they think of this?

As a non-Mormon, I don't think there should be a law against it.

[ZENemy]

lol

If I wanna "Marry" 10 girls, I wont be asking the government for permission to do so.

[Tywysog Cymru]

As a non-Mormon, I don't think there should be a law against it.

I wasn't talking legally, but I do wonder what Mormons think of the growing media spotlight on the polygamous lifestyle. I live really close to the only Mormon temple in Kentucky and there are tons of Mormons at my school, but I don't want to ask them about that subject.

(I think after several years, they gave up on my house because my dad confronted them with scripture every time they knocked on the door:D).

[ravedown]

its more prevalent in utah than most people know. they do a pretty good job of keeping it off the radar. maybe the gay community should take a lesson from the polygamists...stop having an agenda and identifying as a special interest/collective.

[Philhelm]

How do I get in on the action?

[jllundqu]

I have to admit I watch 'Sister Wives' on Netflix.... good show about polygamy. It was the family on that show that recently challenged Utah's polygamy laws and won...

[opal]

just random thoughts ... why is it always multiple wives??? not multiple husbands???
I agree the government has no jurisdiction in the bedroomm
Even when my husband is being a big old pain in the ass.. I'm still not sharing him
With the Op's example.. can you imagine the laundry? omg

[compromise]

just random thoughts ... why is it always multiple wives??? not multiple husbands???
I agree the government has no jurisdiction in the bedroomm
Even when my husband is being a big old pain in the ass.. I'm still not sharing him
With the Op's example.. can you imagine the laundry? omg

The laundry rate would be significantly increased by the presence of more women than in a monogamous household.

[jllundqu]

and for the record.... I can only handle one wife (barely). The thought of having 4-5 wives makes my head hurt.

[Danke]

and for the record.... I can only handle one wife (barely). The thought of having 4-5 wives makes my head hurt.

There is a reprieve.

"This is a third degree felony... this is serious prison time. My grandfathers were imprisoned, so that was a real impact that we felt."

[Danke]

just random thoughts ... why is it always multiple wives??? not multiple husbands???
I agree the government has no jurisdiction in the bedroomm
Even when my husband is being a big old pain in the ass.. I'm still not sharing him
With the Op's example.. can you imagine the laundry? omg

We used to sing this song in my squadron.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBDt9wak6mI

[69360]

I could care less as long as they are all consenting adults.

[aGameOfThrones]

How do I get in on the action?

“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east.” “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then you may get in the action, and not before.”

[invisible]

How do I get in on the action?

If you're not a mormon and do not wish to become one, it is a bit difficult to find the right sort of women, but it can be done. There ARE women out there who find such relationships desirable, but it narrows your potential dating pool considerably.

[Brian4Liberty]

Joe married cousins Alina and Vicki in 1990. Ten years later, Vicki's twin sister Valerie joined them, after her first plural marriage broke down.

Twins. :toady:

[Brian4Liberty]

Polygamy is very popular in the US. The welfare system actually promotes it.

[Danke]

How do I get in on the action?

Something I would not wish on my worst enemy. But if you happen to get there, can I film it? Reality TV is big these days.

[Christian Liberty]

(I think after several years, they gave up on my house because my dad confronted them with scripture every time they knocked on the door:D). LOL! Kentucky Calvinist FTW!:D

[Smart3]

I take no issue with bigamy, but the number of men who could handle three wives+ is probably in the hundreds... on Earth.

Polygamy is very practical in some parts of the world - surplus of women for example among Yemeni Jews. However, it doesn't make much sense today in the West.

[Philhelm]

“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east.” “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then you may get in the action, and not before.”

The sister-wives are mine, by right. All those who oppose this are my foe.

[erowe1]

It looks like the word "thrives" is being stretched as far as it can go here.

[aGameOfThrones]

The sister-wives are mine, by right. All those who oppose this are my foe.


You know this quote was on its way...

"The whole U.S denies it from Utah to the Wall(new york city cause it's a hell hole). Old men deny it with their death rattle and unborn children deny it in their mothers' wombs. No one wants you for their sugar daddy. You never wanted more than 1 wife, philhelm, but a man without The Twins is a man without power."


I'm not sure about this edit, but I'm backing it anyway.

[dannno]

As a non-Mormon, I don't think there should be a law against it.

That's funny because Mormons are the ones who originally made the laws against polygamy back in the 1800s when they were required to in order to become a state.



"Certainly within Mormon-based polygamy, it's not really much of a choice, because Mormon scriptures teach a woman that if she doesn't consent to living in polygamy, God's going to destroy her," Munn explained.

What Book of Mormon are THEY reading?? I've never seen a passage that asserts that polygamy is part of the faith, in fact, originally it was NOT apart of the faith. That came alter when the Mexican/American war took away most of the husbands and there were a bunch of extra single women.

[eduardo89]

What Book of Mormon are THEY reading?? I've never seen a passage that asserts that polygamy is part of the faith, in fact, originally it was NOT apart of the faith. That came alter when the Mexican/American war took away most of the husbands and there were a bunch of extra single women.

Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, was a polygamist.

[Christian Liberty]

Your avatar's a Mormon to:p

[eduardo89]

Your avatar's a Mormon to:p

Is there a rule that my avatar must be a Christian?

[CPUd]

just random thoughts ... why is it always multiple wives??? not multiple husbands???


It wouldn't increase the birth rate.

Plus, all the husbands would be beating each other to death.

[eduardo89]

Plus, all the husbands would be beating each other to death.

Ew.

[dannno]

Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, was a polygamist.

When he was 14????

Anyway, you sound like a conspiracy theorist.


Many historians claim that Joseph Smith, Jr. (1805–1844), the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, taught and practiced polygamy during his ministry, and married multiple women during his lifetime. Smith, and the leading quorums of his church, publicly denied he taught or practiced it.[1][2][3]

The first publication of a list of women alleged to be Smith's plural wives was in 1887, by assistant LDS church historian Andrew Jenson. It included 27 women besides Emma Smith.[4] Currently, historians disagree as to the number of plural wives which Smith had and their names. Various scholars and historians, including Fawn Brodie, George D. Smith,[5] and Todd Compton, have tried to identify the women who married Smith.[6] The discrepancy is created by the lack of documents to support some of the alleged marriages. As Compton has stated, for many of these marriages, "absolutely nothing is known of [the] marriage after the ceremony."[7]

Smith's son Joseph Smith III, lawful widow Emma Smith, and most members of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS, now called Community of Christ) attempted for years to refute the evidence of plural marriages. They pointed to the historical record that Joseph Smith publicly opposed the practice of polygamy.[3][8][9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives

[Ender]

just random thoughts ... why is it always multiple wives??? not multiple husbands???
I agree the government has no jurisdiction in the bedroomm
Even when my husband is being a big old pain in the ass.. I'm still not sharing him
With the Op's example.. can you imagine the laundry? omg

Actually, "polygamy" means many marriages; "polygyny" means many wives.

[eduardo89]

When he was 14????

No, but some of his wives were that age when he 'married' them.

[Republicanguy]

What a load of filth. This attitude is embarrassing to a space faring world such as ours.

[Origanalist]

What a load of filth. This attitude is embarrassing to a space faring world such as ours.

Ha ha ha!

[dannno]

No, but some of his wives were that age when he 'married' them.

Allegedly?

[Origanalist]

Pop quiz. How many times have the British launched a space mission?































































oooops

[Ender]

No, but some of his wives were that age when he 'married' them.

If true, please realize that 14 in the mid 1800's was not the same as 14 today. 14 yr olds were having families, running the farms and taking care of parents.

Now we have forced extended childhoods.

[twomp]

is there a shortage of men in Utah?

[eduardo89]

is there a shortage of men in Utah?

Yes, just like there is across America.

[Origanalist]

Yes, just like there is across America.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QJbdx6YbAHg/UVOAn22QtkI/AAAAAAAAAek/TW4rq-RGZKY/s1600/rimshot.jpeg

[Ender]

is there a shortage of men in Utah?

No.

The population is fairly even with a slightly higher percentage of men.

[dannno]

is there a shortage of men in Utah?

There was when they started the practice of polygamy due to the Mexican/American war, but then they ended the practice and there are very few people who practice it today. Mormons don't practice polygamy or else they get ex-communicated.

To say that kind of statement today is really ridiculous, if you go to the big cities in Utah they aren't much different from the rest of the country and the amount of polygamists in the state I am guessing is probably around .0002% of the population.

[Icymudpuppy]

There is a shortage of real men.

Men take responsibility for their actions and the actions of their family. Men stand up for what's right, regardless of what's legal. Men respect others and expect to be respected by others.

Men are in short supply.

[idiom]

Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, was a polygamist.

Good thing Abraham, Issac and Joseph weren't into all that, or Moses, or Mohammed...

[Smart3]

Good thing Abraham, Issac and Joseph weren't into all that, or Moses, or Mohammed...

Abraham wasn't a polygamist. Sarah was already dead by the time Keturah (who many believe was Hagar) married Abraham.
Isaac wasn't a polygamist.
Jacob (I believe you meant him, as opposed to Joseph who was also not a polygamist) wasn't an intentional polygamist, he was tricked into bigamy. One would assume he'd have been faithful just to his desired wife and not seek another woman until her death.
Moses wasn't a polygamist, though there is some debate in much later works about the vague reference to a Cushite woman. In any case, he didn't have two women under one roof.

and Mohammad was of course a serial polygamist, but like many polygamists he was most in love with his first and last wives.

[FindLiberty]

...The thought of having 4-5 wives makes my head hurt.

OMG, 4-5 wives? ...prison might be a welcomed escape from all that nagging and the endless stream of honey-do lists!

[osan]

I'm sure the average Mormon doesn't want to be associated with polygamy, I wonder what they think of this?

Why are you so sure?

I think this it is damned time someone got some sense on the matter and it seems this judge has.

Just because you may not agree with it, it does not follow people should be imprisoned for it.

I am all for consensual polygamy because I am for freedom of conscience, thought, and action.

For the record, I can barely manage one wife, so not, I'm not looking for a reason to gain any more.

[Republicanguy]

Ha ha ha!

Just what is so funny? Our world is a space world, there are plenty of satelites orbiting the planet, a number of probes in the Solar system. I guess you never heard of the Hubble telescope, has given Humanity a better view of this cosmic ocean that we are a part of. I watched Startrek secrets on youtube, how ever one guy is full of himself, he personally thinks humanity could hypothetically liberate other species across the galaxy. Its pretty bleak, the concept that space travel probably won't ever happen.

I how ever, have a much more realistic sensible view. Explore space to understand ourselves, and to try and seek life. But nothing wild, science fiction like. Independence day for example, starring Bill Pullman and Will Smith.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Consenting adults can do whatever they like as long as no one gets hurt. Pretty simple concept. The only part that's vague is what constitutes an "adult". Sometimes I wonder if some people ever reach "adulthood"... ;)

[Christian Liberty]

Why are you so sure?

I think this it is damned time someone got some sense on the matter and it seems this judge has.

Just because you may not agree with it, it does not follow people should be imprisoned for it.

I am all for consensual polygamy because I am for freedom of conscience, thought, and action.

For the record, I can barely manage one wife, so not, I'm not looking for a reason to gain any more.

I don't think he's saying anyone should be imprisoned for it. But... polygamy isn't exactly culturally acceptable ATM, and Mormons are, to my understanding, as conscious of that as anyone else.

[DamianTV]

If true, please realize that 14 in the mid 1800's was not the same as 14 today. 14 yr olds were having families, running the farms and taking care of parents.

Now we have forced extended childhoods.

All the way to Adultolescence.

[osan]

I don't think he's saying anyone should be imprisoned for it. But... polygamy isn't exactly culturally acceptable ATM, and Mormons are, to my understanding, as conscious of that as anyone else.


Freedom isn't culturally acceptable. Douche bag religious jerk-offs don't want polygamy, *****, prostitution, drugs, etc. Douche bag liberal bed-wetters don't want religion, responsibility/accountability. We could go down a long litany of things one group wants to impose upon others or deny them.

As far as I am concerned all those people would do the world a great favor were they to spontaneously combust.

[Christian Liberty]

Freedom isn't culturally acceptable. Douche bag religious jerk-offs don't want polygamy, *****, prostitution, drugs, etc. Douche bag liberal bed-wetters don't want religion, responsibility/accountability. We could go down a long litany of things one group wants to impose upon others or deny them.

As far as I am concerned all those people would do the world a great favor were they to spontaneously combust.

I understand that you don't care about what society thinks. I don't either for the record, although for me personally I do care about the Bible and so my morality may be different than yours. I wholeheartedly believe in freedom though, including for polygamists.

But... I think the average Mormon does care. Which was my point, and Tywysog's. I'm pretty sure he wasn't saying "ban polygamy", and I certainly was not saying that.

[PierzStyx]

No, but some of his wives were that age when he 'married' them.

My southern grandmother was married at 13 in 1940. Agrarian societies very often married at a young age. But custom of the time was to marry and wait until the women were older so they could safely bare children. It was only as industrialization spread that the practice of marrying young women to much older men disappeared. Joseph Smith married a girl who was probably around the age of 15 or 16, but could have as young as 14 or as old as 18. The chronology really isn't clear from the primary source texts. If you want to know more about Joseph Smith's practice of polygamy this AMA with Brian Hales, a LDS scholar and authority on the Mormon practice of polygamy and Mormon Fundamentalist/modern polygamists, is a good place to start.

http://www.reddit.com/r/latterdaysaints/comments/1sq4a0/i_am_brian_hales_ama_ask_me_any_question_about/

[fr33]

It's none of my business if they want to do that.

[PierzStyx]

Abraham wasn't a polygamist. Sarah was already dead by the time Keturah (who many believe was Hagar) married Abraham.
Isaac wasn't a polygamist.
Jacob (I believe you meant him, as opposed to Joseph who was also not a polygamist) wasn't an intentional polygamist, he was tricked into bigamy. One would assume he'd have been faithful just to his desired wife and not seek another woman until her death.
Moses wasn't a polygamist, though there is some debate in much later works about the vague reference to a Cushite woman. In any case, he didn't have two women under one roof.

and Mohammad was of course a serial polygamist, but like many polygamists he was most in love with his first and last wives.

Have....Have you never read the Bible?

Abraham was married to Sarah while having a sexual relationship with Hagar. Hagar held a place that today would be a gray area between a wife (because she had legal rights and theoretically Abraham wasn't supposed to just abandon her) and a concubine (because she wasn't a "full" wife.)

Jacob married four women and had multiple children with all of them. They were the mothers of the his sounds who founded the Twelve Tribes of Israel. So I don't know where you get the idea that he didn't have sex with his polygamous wives. Also, he was "tricked" into marrying Leah, but willingly married Bilhah and Zilpah.

Moses could very well have been a polygamist. His first wife, Zipporah, was a Midianite. Numbers 12:1 tells us he married, in addition, a "Cushite woman." What we do not know is if Zipporah was still alive or not.

There are plenty of righteous polygamists in the Bible. The closest the Bible comes to condemning polygamy is the Law of Moses suggesting that Israelite men not be allowed to take to many women (though no exact number is given) to wife and the New Testament where Paul says a bishop should be the husband of one wife (though I've seen it argued that this is Paul saying Bishops should be married, no necessarily that they were only limited to one wife.

[PierzStyx]

But... I think the average Mormon does care.


It varies. I am happy to see anti-polygamy laws failing. Early Mormons practiced polygamy for 30 years in direct defiance of the law. Modern Mormons generally want to fit in enough that people will listen to the missionary message. Some Mormons believe God will re-institute polygamy after the Second Coming. So its a hodge podge.

[KCIndy]

I how ever, have a much more realistic sensible view. Explore space to understand ourselves, and to try and seek life. But nothing wild, science fiction like. Independence day for example, starring Bill Pullman and Will Smith.


I heard a rumor that the Independence Day aliens were polygamists. Is that true?? :eek:

[Christian Liberty]

Have....Have you never read the Bible?

Abraham was married to Sarah while having a sexual relationship with Hagar. Hagar held a place that today would be a gray area between a wife (because she had legal rights and theoretically Abraham wasn't supposed to just abandon her) and a concubine (because she wasn't a "full" wife.)

Jacob married four women and had multiple children with all of them. They were the mothers of the his sounds who founded the Twelve Tribes of Israel. So I don't know where you get the idea that he didn't have sex with his polygamous wives. Also, he was "tricked" into marrying Leah, but willingly married Bilhah and Zilpah.

Moses could very well have been a polygamist. His first wife, Zipporah, was a Midianite. Numbers 12:1 tells us he married, in addition, a "Cushite woman." What we do not know is if Zipporah was still alive or not.

There are plenty of righteous polygamists in the Bible. The closest the Bible comes to condemning polygamy is the Law of Moses suggesting that Israelite men not be allowed to take to many women (though no exact number is given) to wife and the New Testament where Paul says a bishop should be the husband of one wife (though I've seen it argued that this is Paul saying Bishops should be married, no necessarily that they were only limited to one wife.

That last sentence is a HUGE stretch. At any rate, Genesis 2:24 seems to show God's original design for marriage, to me. I understand that there were righteous men who were polygamists... there's only one perfect person in the Bible, and that's Jesus Christ. The entire Bible is about God redeeming sinful men and using them for his purposes.


It varies. I am happy to see anti-polygamy laws failing. Early Mormons practiced polygamy for 30 years in direct defiance of the law. Modern Mormons generally want to fit in enough that people will listen to the missionary message. Some Mormons believe God will re-institute polygamy after the Second Coming. So its a hodge podge.

Fair enough. I don't know why anyone would take Mormonism seriously, but I do want to see anti-polygamy laws fail, despite what I say above. I believe in liberty and the NAP. I don't want State-sanctioned polygamous marriage though, I want to see the government get out of it just like with gay marriage.

[PierzStyx]

I don't know why anyone would take Mormonism seriously,


Of course you don't. You would become LDS if you did.

[Christian Liberty]

Of course you don't. You would become LDS if you did.

Hahaha! Mormonism is so [deleted - mod note, please use logical arguments, not trash talk. Thanks]

[Ender]

Hahaha! Mormonism is so [deleted]

Actually Mormonism is makes much more sense than most religions.

[osan]

I understand that you don't care about what society thinks. I don't either for the record, although for me personally I do care about the Bible and so my morality may be different than yours. I wholeheartedly believe in freedom though, including for polygamists.

But... I think the average Mormon does care. Which was my point, and Tywysog's. I'm pretty sure he wasn't saying "ban polygamy", and I certainly was not saying that.

I did not mean to suggest that you or he did, only that there is a shit-ton of those who do. Those are the one's who should do the honorable thing.

Think of the children.

[Spikender]

I find the title to be a bit misleading, doesn't seem like it's thriving insomuch as just existing.

[Ender]

I find the title to be a bit misleading, doesn't seem like it's thriving insomuch as just existing.

Exactly.

[Republicanguy]

I heard a rumor that the Independence Day aliens were polygamists. Is that true?? :eek:

Independece day is just imagination. What does this ridiculous polygamy rubbish have to do with a science fiction film?

If a person is concerned with feminism, freedom then one should be against this sort of arrangement. Are all the women educated, and willing? Thousands of years of misogyny isn't going to go away anytime soon.

[eduardo89]

Independece day is just imagination. What does this ridiculous polygamy rubbish have to do with a science fiction film?

If a person is concerned with feminism, freedom then one should be against this sort of arrangement. Are all the women educated, and willing? Thousands of years of misogyny isn't going to go away anytime soon.

Why should one be against this sort of thing if they are for freedom? I personally think it is immoral and wrong, but from a personal freedom point of view how can you be against voluntary association between consenting adults?

[dannno]

Hahaha! Mormonism is so insane it makes Romanism seem sane in comparison.

No, I think all other Christian religions are way more insane than Mormonism.

Other Christian religions are way too European-centric to make any sense. It's like you have to be a European or else you go to hell or something.

The LDS Church teaches that many civilizations across the globe prophesied of Jesus' life and resurrection and then Jesus visited them to fulfill the prophesies. Then God stripped the true gospel off of the earth for about 1,800 years, which explains why all other Christian religions don't make any sense.

Then the original Church of Christ was restored to the earth, and another testament of Christ was unveiled finally.

I just find it to be a more universal religion that is less discriminatory.

[PierzStyx]

Hahaha! Mormonism is so insane it makes Romanism seem sane in comparison.

Moses' giving up a life of luxury to live in the desert with his people must have seemed insane to Pharaoh, John the Baptist seemed like a crazed wild man to Herod, and Jesus was certainly seen as blasphemously insane to the Pharisees and Sadducees. The truth always looks insane to those who don't understand it.

[Acala]

Jack Dempsey was a Mormon. And that is as much on the topic as the weird space faring stuff.

[eduardo89]

Hahaha! Mormonism is so [deleted]

If you know as much about Mormonism as you do about Catholicism then you have no clue what you're talking about.

[Christian Liberty]

Moses' giving up a life of luxury to live in the desert with his people must have seemed insane to Pharaoh, John the Baptist seemed like a crazed wild man to Herod, and Jesus was certainly seen as blasphemously insane to the Pharisees and Sadducees. The truth always looks insane to those who don't understand it.

My issue isn't how it seems to worldly men. My issue is that you claim that the Bible is divinely inspired (The KJV at the very least) and yet you teach doctrines that are completely foreign to the Bible such as men becoming gods, non-Christians being able to go to heaven, polytheism, not to mention that your church changed its own doctrines on polygamy (Worshipping civil authorities over God himself... incidentally the Bible has never support polygamy but your religion has) and black priesthood (Your church was founded by racists.)


If you know as much about Mormonism as you do about Catholicism then you have no clue what you're talking about.

I don't know much about Mormonism, but I know enough. Rather like Romanism, actually.

[eduardo89]

I don't know much about Mormonism, but I know enough. Rather like Romanism, actually.

You know, if you want people to take you seriously when we discuss and debate things, you should stop being disrespectful and using derogatory terms such as "Romanism." Use the word Catholicism, please.

[Christian Liberty]

You know, if you want people to take you seriously when we discuss and debate things, you should stop being disrespectful and using derogatory terms such as "Romanism." Use the word Catholicism, please.

A rose by any other name:p

[Ender]

My issue isn't how it seems to worldly men. My issue is that you claim that the Bible is divinely inspired (The KJV at the very least) and yet you teach doctrines that are completely foreign to the Bible such as men becoming gods, non-Christians being able to go to heaven, polytheism, not to mention that your church changed its own doctrines on polygamy (Worshipping civil authorities over God himself... incidentally the Bible has never support polygamy but your religion has) and black priesthood (Your church was founded by racists.)



I don't know much about Mormonism, but I know enough. Rather like Romanism, actually.

Well that's a bunch of balooey.

Mormons believe in the Bible- AS LONG AS IT IS TRANSLATED CORRECTLY.

1st of all- many books were thrown out of the Bible that very well pertain to men becoming Gods.

Next- IF you believe that God is a loving Father, then what do you think that a father wants for His children? A GOOD FATHER WANTS HIS CHILDREN TO HAVE WHAT HE HAS OR BETTER.

Mormons believe that all good people will attain a place in the afterlife; in fact they also believe that only Mormons, who have attained complete knowledge and turn willingly away from it, can go to "Hell".

The Mormon retreat from polygamy was to save lives. Mormons were persecuted, killed and driven out of the US proper. They are a captured people, much like the Indians. They were made to change their ways or face death- men, women, and children, when the US invaded and took over Utah.

The Missouri Extermination Order against Mormons was only rescinded in 1982.

And, the Bible most certainly supports polygamy-

Joseph Smith was not racist- many blacks were involved in the beginning of the Church. The Mormons were taken to task, killed, farms burned, etc., because of this- by so-called Christians. Some in the leadership questioned the black issue and some had some prejudice, so the blacks became secondary citizens in the church for a while- as they were in EVERY OTHER PART OF THE COUNTRY.

On the other hand, Mormon women had the vote and were equal to men in the State of Deseret, until the US moved in and took the vote from them. Utah was still one of the first states to give the vote to women.

So FF, you don' know nothin' when it comes to Mormons. And probably the same for Catholics, as well,

[Republicanguy]

Why should one be against this sort of thing if they are for freedom? I personally think it is immoral and wrong, but from a personal freedom point of view how can you be against voluntary association between consenting adults?

Are all these people making a choice in these arrangements? How does anyone here know that for certain. Its like FGM.

[pcosmar]

Pop quiz. How many times have the British launched a space mission?




Dr. Who? and Arthur Dent.

[ChristianAnarchist]

I really don't see the problem here if we are looking at this from a liberty perspective. If people consent to enter into a relationship that does not harm others, why would you oppose it? If you oppose polygamy then do you also oppose "swinging"? Many consider that immoral. Do you also want to restrict that? Just wondering how much "liberty" is permitted in your ideal world...

[UtahApocalypse]

Well that's a bunch of balooey.

Mormons believe in the Bible- AS LONG AS IT IS TRANSLATED CORRECTLY.

1st of all- many books were thrown out of the Bible that very well pertain to men becoming Gods.

Next- IF you believe that God is a loving Father, then what do you think that a father wants for His children? A GOOD FATHER WANTS HIS CHILDREN TO HAVE WHAT HE HAS OR BETTER.

Mormons believe that all good people will attain a place in the afterlife; in fact they also believe that only Mormons, who have attained complete knowledge and turn willingly away from it, can go to "Hell".

The Mormon retreat from polygamy was to save lives. Mormons were persecuted, killed and driven out of the US proper. They are a captured people, much like the Indians. They were made to change their ways or face death- men, women, and children, when the US invaded and took over Utah.

The Missouri Extermination Order against Mormons was only rescinded in 1982.

And, the Bible most certainly supports polygamy-

Joseph Smith was not racist- many blacks were involved in the beginning of the Church. The Mormons were taken to task, killed, farms burned, etc., because of this- by so-called Christians. Some in the leadership questioned the black issue and some had some prejudice, so the blacks became secondary citizens in the church for a while- as they were in EVERY OTHER PART OF THE COUNTRY.

On the other hand, Mormon women had the vote and were equal to men in the State of Deseret, until the US moved in and took the vote from them. Utah was still one of the first states to give the vote to women.

So FF, you don' know nothin' when it comes to Mormons. And probably the same for Catholics, as well,

Bravo