When a landlord just says no to tenants smoking pot

[RonPaulFanInGA]

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-ask-laz-landlord-marijuana-20140127,0,7174462.story


Dave is a landlord, but he's not a dope smoker. So when he lists a room for rent on Craigslist, he specifies that marijuana isn't welcome.

However, Dave says that Craigslist users routinely flag his postings for being discriminatory, and he's received warnings from the site.

He asks: Can't a landlord just say no to drugs?

The short answer is yes. But in the age of medical marijuana, things are a little trickier.

[tod evans]

As much as I'm pro-weed I'm even more pro property owner.

The dude should be able to refuse to rent or boot a tenant out for any reason he wants.

Fuck a bunch of discrimination!

[belian78]

As much as I'm pro-weed I'm even more pro property owner.

The dude should be able to refuse to rent or boot a tenant out for any reason he wants.

Fuck a bunch of discrimination!

But technically that's discriminatory against MJ and MJ smokers. But I agree they can have whatever rules they want, and people can flag his posts if they want.

[tod evans]

But technically that's discriminatory against MJ and MJ smokers. But I agree they can have whatever rules they want, and people can flag his posts if they want.

A free person may discriminate against whomever they wish for any reason, or none at all....

[TaftFan]

I mean, if I was going to let someone borrow my vehicle, I wouldn't let them smoke in it.

[kcchiefs6465]

Are you allowed to smoke in public in California?

Probably a stupid question.

[tod evans]

I mean, if I was going to let someone borrow my vehicle, I wouldn't let them smoke in it.

And I'd refuse to loan mine to a non-smoker just 'cause they bitch-n-whine......;)

[Suzanimal]

Interesting argument in the video but I still say the landlord should be able to discriminate.

[Feeding the Abscess]

But technically that's discriminatory against MJ and MJ smokers. But I agree they can have whatever rules they want, and people can flag his posts if they want.

The ability to discriminate is the essence of freedom. If you can't discriminate, you don't own your property.

[Kotin]

Let freedom and market forces work.. It's his property and he can make those rules..


If he can keep his place full and still do this then there is a market for it and if not then he will either have to go with market opinions and allow it or face an empty lot.. But as far as forcing him to allow marijuana.. nope.

[Dr.3D]

The ability to discriminate is the essence of freedom. If you can't discriminate, you don't own your property.
Actually if you don't pay your property taxes (rent) you will be evicted. You even need to get permission to build something on "your" property. (You don't really own your property!)

[Feeding the Abscess]

Actually if you don't pay your property taxes (rent) you will be evicted. You even need to get permission to build something on "your" property. (You don't really own your property!)

I'm speaking philosophically. You are correct, of course; the State has already removed your ability to truly own the property you live on, and this is reprehensible.

[69360]

I believe a landlord may have a legal responsibility to report known illegal activity or they are criminally liable along with the tenants.

I know I sure as shit wouldn't want my property seized by the feds because of tenants with drugs.

If you want to smoke on your own property, it's not my business.

[Anti Federalist]

I believe a landlord may have a legal responsibility to report known illegal activity or they are criminally liable along with the tenants.

I know I sure as shit wouldn't want my property seized by the feds because of tenants with drugs.

If you want to smoke on your own property, it's not my business.

It doesn't even have to be with your knowledge, the cops will still set you up for asset forfeiture, even if you knew nothing about it.

So, what's the answer?

Why, 24/7 in home surveillance of course.

I'm as pro-property rights as the next guy around here, but I'm surprised nobody can see where this is going.

[kcchiefs6465]

It doesn't even have to be with your knowledge, the cops will still set you up for asset forfeiture, even if you knew nothing about it.

So, what's the answer?

Why, 24/7 in home surveillance of course.

I'm as pro-property rights as the next guy around here, but I'm surprised nobody can see where this is going.
Where it's going? It has long arrived.

And with it has arrived the total disrespect of property.

[dannno]

As much as I'm pro-weed I'm even more pro property owner.

The dude should be able to refuse to rent or boot a tenant out for any reason he wants.

Fuck a bunch of discrimination!

Are we talking about his private property or the private property of craigslist where he is posting?

If I ran craigslist I would not allow his postings on my site either because I think he's a fuckwad. My website my property.

I would, however, allow postings where landlords require that their tenants are mmj patients.

[dannno]

I mean, if I was going to let someone borrow my vehicle, I wouldn't let them smoke in it.

Well if they smoked weed in your vehicle you would likely never know unless they left a roach or a bunch of ashes in the ash tray. As pungent as cannabis is initially, the smell completely disappears after a few hours and the smoke doesn't make everything all dirty and grimy like tobacco smoke does.

[kcchiefs6465]

Well if they smoked weed in your vehicle you would likely never know unless they left a roach or a bunch of ashes in the ash tray. As pungent as cannabis is initially, the smell completely disappears after a few hours and the smoke doesn't make everything all dirty and grimy like tobacco smoke does.
It does not completely disappear and it absorbs in fabric.

Not that you'd necessarily need to paint the walls to get rid of the smell, but to act as if it the smell completely disappears (especially after only just a few hours) is absurd.

[DamianTV]

CONTRACT LAW

This one is kind of tricky without Contracts.

Both Renters and Owners have rights, and they butt up against each other quite often. Thus, there has to be reasonable clearly defined limitations of both. For example, a tennant cant tear down a wall in an apartment without permission from the property owner without the property owners permission. In that example, the Renter may be exceeding his rights and infringing on the Owners. Notice the key word there "May". At the same time, the Owner cant arbitrarily declare that he is going to put cameras in all the apartments. That exceeds the Owners Rights and infringes on the Renters.

The word "May" becomes a Key when it is used for maintaining a balance between the Renter and Owner. "May" also is an indication that a specific Right is not clearly defined as belonging to one party or the other. This is where the Contract comes into play. It provides a clear definition and turns "May" into an absolute that is agreed to by both parties. The Contract helps prevent disagreements over where the Rights of both parties begin and end.

I try to frequently point out that Righst come with Responsibility. Contracts also provide clear definition of Responsibilities. Who is responsible when there is a plumbing leak? It depends on the Contract, which often depends on how the building is designed. Some properties rented use the same Water Heater, some have an individual water heater for each property. There are also reasonable limits to the Rights and Responsibilities of both parties. The Owner cant just enter a Rented Property and take what ever they want when ever they want. Renters cant expect to occupy without providing the Owner with compensation.

Smoking itself has become a point of contention, but its actually more similar to a Water Leak or Renters having pets. It depends greatly on the nature of the Rented Property. Sometimes people just rent rooms and have access to kitchen and share bathrooms. Other times Renters rent full houses. Apartments are common.

I think the best solution no solution at all by allowing the Owners and Renters to agree on what the extent of their Rights and Responsibilities are by defining them in a Contract. Just because I rent a room from you, it does not clearly mean I have a Right to smoke in the rest of your house in a Room Rental situation. And at the same time, just because I rent a Room from you, it also doesnt mean that as a Renter I can tell you that you cant smoke in your own house. When the limitations of these things are more clearly defined, it settles a lot of disputes before they occur.

It should be obvious by now that the best solution is to keep Govt out of it as much as possible.

[dannno]

It does not completely disappear and it absorbs in fabric.

Not that you'd necessarily need to paint the walls to get rid of the smell, but to act as if it the smell completely disappears (especially after only just a few hours) is absurd.

You're wrong. I have way more experience smoking herb in apartments/bathrooms/closets/small spaces with other people than you, I guarantee it. The only way you are right is if you are smoking blunts or joints, the papers and tobacco can potentially leave aromas in a room, but if you smoke high grade herb out of a glass bong, you have to really hot box a very small area for it to be noticeable in a few hours and it will be completely gone by the next day.

Additionally, if you have two bedrooms right next to each other and in one a person smokes cigs and in another a person has friends over and hot boxes the room with a bong and high grade herb every night, the room with cigs will smell musty like vegas after you move out, there will be grime on the walls and the curtains and the carpet will be musty and brown. The room where the herb was smoked will have no noticeable odors, grime or anything like the bedroom next to it. I've seen it for myself.

[eduardo89]

I have way more experience smoking herb in apartments/bathrooms/closets/small spaces with other people than you, I guarantee it.

Yes, we can tell.

[eduardo89]

It does not completely disappear and it absorbs in fabric.

Not that you'd necessarily need to paint the walls to get rid of the smell, but to act as if it the smell completely disappears (especially after only just a few hours) is absurd.

It also absorbs into drywall. Back when I lived in Spain my neighbours smoked pot for a couple hours every day. They moved out and 6 months later I could still smell it in the walls between our apartments.

[jkr]

rule
of
men

never 4 get

[DamianTV]

Flip the coin.

What happens when the Landlord is the Pot Smoker and the Renter is not? Does the Renter get the Right to tell the Owner they cant smoke?

Arguments coming out show results of Conflict and not the source of the conflict itself; the clear definition of what Rights, Responsibilities, and Priviledges each party in the Contract has.

---


A free person may discriminate against whomever they wish for any reason, or none at all....

Absolutely perfect. If both parties dont agree, dont sign the contract, or renegotiate the Contract. Discrimination comes from both Owners and Renters, (Pot) Smokers and Non Smokers, and its totally legal to NOT enter into a Contract for any reason.

[jkob]

Well, specifying that out of roommate is one thing but it aint none of a landlords business otherwise.

[gwax23]

His property, his rules. Anything else is bullshit.

[DamianTV]

His property, his rules. Anything else is bullshit.

Its all bullshit on both sides if both parties dont agree to begin with.

[tod evans]

His property, his rules. Anything else is bullshit.

Right here's where it all went to shit;

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/FHLaws

Fair Housing Laws and Presidential Executive Orders
The Fair Housing Laws:
Fair Housing Act
Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968 (Fair Housing Act), as amended, prohibits discrimination in the sale, rental, and financing of dwellings, and in other housing-related transactions, based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status (including children under the age of 18 living with parents or legal custodians, pregnant women, and people securing custody of children under the age of 18), and disability. More on the Fair Housing Act

Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964
Title VI prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, or national origin in programs and activities receiving federal financial
assistance.

Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973
Section 504 prohibits discrimination based on disability in any program or activity receiving federal financial assistance.

Section 109 of Title I of the Housing and Community Development Act of 1974
Section 109 prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex or religion in programs and activities receiving financial assistance from HUD's Community Development and Block Grant Program.

Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990
Title II prohibits discrimination based on disability in programs, services, and activities provided or made available by public entities. HUD enforces Title II when it relates to state and local public housing, housing assistance and housing referrals.

Architectural Barriers Act of 1968
The Architectural Barriers Act requires that buildings and facilities designed, constructed, altered, or leased with certain federal funds after September 1969 must be accessible to and useable by handicapped persons.

Age Discrimination Act of 1975
The Age Discrimination Act prohibits discrimination on the basis of age in programs or activities receiving federal financial assistance.

Title IX of the Education Amendments Act of 1972
Title IX prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex in education programs or activities that receive federal financial assistance.


Fair Housing-Related Presidential Executive Orders:
Executive Order 11063
Executive Order 11063 prohibits discrimination in the sale, leasing, rental, or other disposition of properties and facilities owned or operated by the federal government or provided with federal funds.

Executive Order 11246
Executive Order 11246, as amended, bars discrimination in federal employment because of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.

Executive Order 12892
Executive Order 12892, as amended, requires federal agencies to affirmatively further fair housing in their programs and activities, and provides that the Secretary of HUD will be responsible for coordinating the effort. The Order also establishes the President's Fair Housing Council, which will be chaired by the Secretary of HUD.

Executive Order 12898
Executive Order 12898 requires that each federal agency conduct its program, policies, and activities that substantially affect human health or the environment in a manner that does not exclude persons based on race, color, or national origin.

Executive Order 13166
Executive Order 13166 eliminates, to the extent possible, limited English proficiency as a barrier to full and meaningful participation by beneficiaries in all federally-assisted and federally conducted programs and activities.

Executive Order 13217
Executive Order 13217 requires federal agencies to evaluate their policies and programs to determine if any can be revised or modified to improve the availability of community-based living arrangements for persons with disabilities.

[TaftFan]

Well if they smoked weed in your vehicle you would likely never know unless they left a roach or a bunch of ashes in the ash tray. As pungent as cannabis is initially, the smell completely disappears after a few hours and the smoke doesn't make everything all dirty and grimy like tobacco smoke does.

Perhaps you have been conditioned to the smell. Because I once found an old pot pipe in the woods that definitely hadn't been used for a while, but I could still smell the pot. (It was empty).

Smell attaches itself better to fabric than metal too.

[kcchiefs6465]

You're wrong. I have way more experience smoking herb in apartments/bathrooms/closets/small spaces with other people than you, I guarantee it. The only way you are right is if you are smoking blunts or joints, the papers and tobacco can potentially leave aromas in a room, but if you smoke high grade herb out of a glass bong, you have to really hot box a very small area for it to be noticeable in a few hours and it will be completely gone by the next day.

Additionally, if you have two bedrooms right next to each other and in one a person smokes cigs and in another a person has friends over and hot boxes the room with a bong and high grade herb every night, the room with cigs will smell musty like vegas after you move out, there will be grime on the walls and the curtains and the carpet will be musty and brown. The room where the herb was smoked will have no noticeable odors, grime or anything like the bedroom next to it. I've seen it for myself.
My jacket still smells like Athena. It's been a couple months. Noticeably, too; That people have commented when I walked by them. I am not arguing over which is worse, cigarettes or cannabis, I actually like the smell of cannabis, but there is a noticeable odor. That odor doesn't just up and vanish, unless you spray some deodorizers, light an incense, whatever, you just become use to it. Non-smokers can tell quite quickly. Though admittedly when I was a regular smoker I did just smoke blunts.

In any case, whether right or wrong, he is the one who would be painting the walls if need be. If he doesn't want people smoking in his apartment then that is that. I'm not sure if you can publicly consume cannabis in California, "legally" that is, but it doesn't seem like it would be too big an issue to step outside, smoke a bowl, and continue your business. Then again, if he is that concerned about marijuana, outside of any asset forfeiture concerns, no doubt you wouldn't want to lease under him.

[satchelmcqueen]

i am a landlord going on 2 yrs now. ive been lucky so far. our renter is perfect. with that being said, we had to include in the contract that if they are caught with illegal drugs it is an automatic eviction. now personally i dont care what they do as long as they dont damage my place, but the feds can seize my place if they wanted if a drug bust happened and they found stuff.

but aside from that crap, i also think property rights go above whats legal or not. if the dude doesnt want people wmoking weed there, he has the right to refuse. its HIS place after all.

[klamath]

]I believe a landlord may have a legal responsibility to report known illegal activity or they are criminally liable along with the tenants[/B].

I know I sure as shit wouldn't want my property seized by the feds because of tenants with drugs.

If you want to smoke on your own property, it's not my business. As a California landlord...This^^^. If a kid got into MJ because of one of the other tenants, Yes landlords have been convicted of criminal negligence.

[tod evans]

As a California landlord...This^^^. If a kid got into MJ because of one of the other tenants, Yes landlords have been convicted of criminal negligence.

This falls directly on the DA, not the landlord or the doper.

The DA has prosecutorial discression and only pushes such a case for the headlines.

[DamianTV]

This falls directly on the DA, not the landlord or the doper.

The DA has prosecutorial discression and only pushes such a case for the headlines.

And all too often, the message in the headlines for those that can read between the lines is exactly the same: "Govt is Supreme. Obey."

[KCIndy]

This falls directly on the DA, not the landlord or the doper.

The DA has prosecutorial discression and only pushes such a case for the headlines.


Trouble is, I've never seen a DA who didn't have vast career ambitions. Makes it real easy for 'em to prosecute innocent people in order to pad their conviction record so they'll have something to brag about to the voters. District Attorneys will happily incarcerate individuals whom they *know* are innocent.

[jonhowe]

Yes, we can tell.

Sigh at people who still think weed kills brain cells.

[gwax23]

Its all bullshit on both sides if both parties dont agree to begin with.

If the landlord broke the contract then its different. If not its still bullshit.

[pcosmar]

A free person may discriminate against whomever they wish for any reason, or none at all....

This is true,, and society (the public) can do so as well.

I also believe it is his "Right",, and at the same time , very stupid.

But one does still have the right to be stupid.

[belian78]

Let freedom and market forces work.. It's his property and he can make those rules..


If he can keep his place full and still do this then there is a market for it and if not then he will either have to go with market opinions and allow it or face an empty lot.. But as far as forcing him to allow marijuana.. nope.
Agreed.

[Zippyjuan]

He could have said simply "non- smokers only" and been fine. MJ would be a smoke.

[dannno]

It also absorbs into drywall. Back when I lived in Spain my neighbours smoked pot for a couple hours every day. They moved out and 6 months later I could still smell it in the walls between our apartments.

They weren't just smoking pot, they either were smoking blunts or papers or some other type of drug. Hopefully not brick weed. High grade cannabis disappears after a few hours.

[dannno]

Perhaps you have been conditioned to the smell. Because I once found an old pot pipe in the woods that definitely hadn't been used for a while, but I could still smell the pot. (It was empty).

Smell attaches itself better to fabric than metal too.

Yes, a pipe that has resin in it will smell indefinitely just like the plant material itself smells indefinetely, but if you merely smoke high grade cannabis out of a pipe or a bong, the smoke that gets created that leaves a very pungent initial aroma in a space is only temporary. In fact if you can air out the room, it will be gone almost immediately.

If you are smoking mexican brick weed or some type of weed that has been sprayed with weird chemicals then you can also get weird smells in a room that may linger around a bit longer. Fortunately that stuff is slowly disappearing.

[ZENemy]

Are you allowed to smoke in public in California?

Probably a stupid question.


You are not allowed to exhale loudly in CA.

[dannno]

I'm not sure if you can publicly consume cannabis in California, "legally" that is, but it doesn't seem like it would be too big an issue to step outside, smoke a bowl, and continue your business.

If you have a medical license you can smoke cannabis outside in public wherever you can smoke cigs. You can't legally smoke in your car, period, even if it is turned off and parked.

[Brian4Liberty]

Smoke can leave a residue in a residence. Doesn't matter what kind. Cigarettes, cigars, pipes, incense. Burning things in the kitchen, and heavy grease cooking is pretty bad too. Seems like it should be more an issue about deposits and damages.

[kahless]

Third-hand smoke just as deadly as first-hand smoke, study finds
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140130190453.htm


third-hand smoke are just as deadly as first-hand smoke, say scientists who conducted the first animal study of the effects of third-hand smoke.

...third-hand smoke is the second-hand smoke that gets left on the surfaces of objects, ages over time and becomes progressively more toxic.

"We studied, on mice, the effects of third-hand smoke on several organ systems under conditions that simulated third-hand smoke exposure of humans," said Manuela Martins-Green, a professor of cell biology who led the study. "We found significant damage occurs in the liver and lung. Wounds in these mice took longer to heal. Further, these mice displayed hyperactivity."

[compromise]

I do not allow my tenants to smoke cigarettes or pot, or own pets. Unfortunately, almost half of them seem to do at least one of these things anyway.

[ZENemy]

Edibles.

[Root]

What about vaporizing?

[jbauer]

But technically that's discriminatory against MJ and MJ smokers. But I agree they can have whatever rules they want, and people can flag his posts if they want.

Its not discriminatory at all. All he has to do is switch it from pot to smoking of anything. It his property and he can do whatever the F he wants to with it.

Its no different than saying don't bring your stinky cat.

[tod evans]

Third-hand smoke just as deadly as first-hand smoke, study finds


I remember reading similar horror stories about exhaust from leaded fuel when catalytic converters were being pushed hot-n-heavy..

Scientists will "study" what they're paid to study and the reports generally reflect their funding.

[Zippyjuan]

Its not discriminatory at all. All he has to do is switch it from pot to smoking of anything. It his property and he can do whatever the F he wants to with it.

Its no different than saying don't bring your stinky cat.

In CA you can't "pet discriminate". What that means is that you can ban pets but you can't ban partirular pets. You can't allow cats but not small dogs (services animals can't be banned). At least that is what my Condo association said. They choose to ban pets but seem to ignore enforcing it on cats in most cases. Not sure if that applies to individual renters.

[Kilrain]

Dave should be allowed to discriminate against marijuana users.
Craigslist should be allowed to discriminate against people who discriminate against marijuana users.

If either one is forced by the government to discriminate, then the government should eat shit and die.

[JK/SEA]

don't people have to read and sign rental agreements?...if pot smoking, or smoking cigs is on the agreement, then tenants need to honor the agreement....

[pcosmar]

don't people have to read and sign rental agreements?...

Sometimes,,but not always.

Most of my rentals were verbal agreements. Nothing on paper, nothing signed.

[pcosmar]

http://higherelevations.net/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/e/hemp-01-05-11-15.jpg

It worked in the Army barracks. ;)

[DamianTV]

I remember reading similar horror stories about exhaust from leaded fuel when catalytic converters were being pushed hot-n-heavy..

Scientists will "study" what they're paid to study and the reports generally reflect their funding.

Catalytic Converters dont do a damn thing until they are completely hot. Great for long distance, but very inefficient in the short drives.