81yo woman arrested and held without bail for feeding bears

[devil21]

....in her own yard.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/24601276/2014/01/31/no-bond-for-sebring-woman-who-repeatedly-fed-bears#ixzz2s0a0QK8I


Wildlife officials say 81-year-old Mary Mussleman was caught feeding black bears two weeks ago. She was warned not to set any food outside for a whole year.

When they checked out her house again, they found bowls and trays with the corn and birdseed outside.

That was a violation of her probation, authorities said.

Deputies also say Mussleman resisted arrest.

Read more: http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/24601276/2014/01/31/no-bond-for-sebring-woman-who-repeatedly-fed-bears#ixzz2s1UO6tk0
Follow us: @myfoxtampabay on Twitter | FOX13TampaBay on Facebook

[dannno]

Deputies also say Mussleman resisted arrest.

Pussies.

[devil21]

Pussies.

It's the new "add on" charge for everyone that gets arrested over stupid shit.

[phill4paul]

It's the new "add on" charge for everyone that gets arrested over stupid shit.

It's "crying wolf" to me. It is at the point were I automatically know it is bullshit.

[Anti Federalist]

Huh?

What's that you're saying over there?

I can't hear you over all this freedom ringing in my ears.

[Valli6]

She was feeding birds and squirells - not bears. What dicks! :mad:


...Musselman was arrested on the violation of probation charge after an FWCC officer saw outside Musselman's house "numerous bowls and trays with birdseed and corn, four hanging birdfeeders with birdseed in them, a wooden plank and a whole corn with and birdseed and whole corn on the ground."

As part of her probation, Musselman had been ordered not to put out food for animals for a year, the affidavit said....

http://highlandstoday.com/hi/local-news/woman-accused-of-illegally-feeding-bears-and-threatening-officers-20140131/

[pcosmar]

God Bless her.

I can only hope to be resisting arrest at 81.

[Origanalist]

God Bless her.

I can only hope to be resisting arrest at 81.

This^^^^^^

[devil21]

God Bless her.

I can only hope to be resisting arrest at 81.


Touche'!

[Anti Federalist]

God Bless her.

I can only hope to be resisting arrest at 81.

+rep.

[satchelmcqueen]

um, feeding bears is bad, mkay?

[Anti Federalist]

Ah, the joys of living in a compliance state.

[phill4paul]

81 years? Lol, yeah, come and get me. I dare ya.

[TaftFan]

Something tells me Andy Taylor or Bill Gillespie would have handled this differently.

[Carson]

I wonder if they have any pictures of bears at the dishes.

As a juror I might expect such evidence. Then again I don't know if she is rich or poor and might qualify.

[Anti Federalist]

I wonder if they have any pictures of bears at the dishes.

As a juror I might expect such evidence. Then again I don't know if she is rich or poor and might qualify.

Evidence?

How about I thump yer head for ya, there's your fucking evidence.

Now, shut the fuck up, and go render a guilty verdict. - Bailiff Friendly

[Icymudpuppy]

Being in Nuisance wildlife, I wonder how much damage her neighbors were suffering from wildlife getting in their basements, attics, and tearing up their property.

They probably asked multiple times for her to stop feeding the animals, or to at least pay for some of the damage, which she probably refused. Then, the neighbors reported her to police.

I have seen this exact situation happen at least twenty times in my line of work. When my clients' homes are repeatedly being assaulted by starlings, rats, raccoons, squirrels, opossums, skunks, feral cats, and even bears, causing thousands of dollars of damage to the houses, and the person in the neighborhood who is feeding the animals and artificially expanding their population beyond naturally sustainable levels refuses to take any responsibility for the damage those animals are causing, as much as I hate advising it, sometimes getting the law involved is necessary.

These are always elderly women, usually widowed, and can be often accurately depicted by the "crazy cat lady" figure in the Simpson's cartoon.

[Anti Federalist]

Being in Nuisance wildlife, I wonder how much damage her neighbors were suffering from wildlife getting in their basements, attics, and tearing up their property.

They probably asked multiple times for her to stop feeding the animals, or to at least pay for some of the damage, which she probably refused. Then, the neighbors reported her to police.

I have seen this exact situation happen at least twenty times in my line of work. When my clients' homes are repeatedly being assaulted by starlings, rats, raccoons, squirrels, opossums, skunks, feral cats, and even bears, causing thousands of dollars of damage to the houses, and the person in the neighborhood who is feeding the animals and artificially expanding their population beyond naturally sustainable levels refuses to take any responsibility for the damage those animals are causing, as much as I hate advising it, sometimes getting the law involved is necessary.

Jail without bail for an 81 year old woman is neccesary?

[Icymudpuppy]

Jail without bail for an 81 year old woman is neccesary?

Crazy cat lady belongs in an asylum for the mentally unstable, and criminally insane. Animal Hoarding is a mental disease that causes real criminal damage to property.

[Anti Federalist]

I had an idiot near me release a bunch of caged rabbits into the wild.

Now there are bunnies everywhere, that make my dog go nuts, eat the fuck out of my garden and make my little girl cry every time I shoot one of the damned things.

Never, in a million years, would I even think about getting cops involved.

[tod evans]

I had an idiot near me release a bunch of caged rabbits into the wild.

Now there are bunnies everywhere, that make my dog go nuts, eat the fuck out of my garden and make my little girl cry every time I shoot one of the damned things.

Never, in a million years, would I even think about getting cops involved.

No shit eh?

A 300 win-mag to a black bear is like a .22 to a rabbit....

[Icymudpuppy]

I had an idiot near me release a bunch of caged rabbits into the wild.

Now there are bunnies everywhere, that make my dog go nuts, eat the fuck out of my garden and make my little girl cry every time I shoot one of the damned things.

Never, in a million years, would I even think about getting cops involved.

But would you try to get that person to pay for damages if you knew who it was? Would you ask them to help pay for the cost of trapping the excessive rabbits? What if you knew who it was, and that they had not just done it once, but multiple times? What if they refused to stop doing it?

A year ago she was given a cease and desist order. The 2-3 years before, I bet her neighbors tried a lot of nice polite ways of trying to solve the problem.

Since our dream of private security forces is not a reality, sometimes you are stuck with invoking the monopoly.

[Anti Federalist]

I know exactly who it was and when it happened.

I'm not sure I can think of any good reason to invoke the monopoly.

And when the stress and conditions in prison kill this woman, what then?

Was it worth it over some bear scat in your flower garden?

Did she do it to herself?


But would you try to get that person to pay for damages if you knew who it was? Would you ask them to help pay for the cost of trapping the excessive rabbits? What if you knew who it was, and that they had not just done it once, but multiple times? What if they refused to stop doing it?

A year ago she was given a cease and desist order. The 2-3 years before, I bet her neighbors tried a lot of nice polite ways of trying to solve the problem.

Since our dream of private security forces is not a reality, sometimes you are stuck with invoking the monopoly.

[Icymudpuppy]

Was it worth it over some bear scat in your flower garden?

A typical bear nuisance problem isn't shit. It's demolished storage sheds $3000 in damage... Broken windows $500 a piece... Wrecked trash cans $150 and $50 litter pickup... It's Destroyed landscaping such as ponds, retaining walls, and decorative plants which may have cost tens of thousands to install. These are big expenses. I deal with these things every day.

I have seen one raccoon mother do over $12,000 worth of damage to a house. I have seen river otters do over $20,000 of damage. Squirrels, over $15,000. Rats, over $30,000. It's not little shit.

[Origanalist]

But would you try to get that person to pay for damages if you knew who it was? Would you ask them to help pay for the cost of trapping the excessive rabbits? What if you knew who it was, and that they had not just done it once, but multiple times? What if they refused to stop doing it?

A year ago she was given a cease and desist order. The 2-3 years before, I bet her neighbors tried a lot of nice polite ways of trying to solve the problem.

Since our dream of private security forces is not a reality, sometimes you are stuck with invoking the monopoly.

Well, I have managed to avoid it so far.

[Origanalist]

A typical bear nuisance problem isn't shit. It's demolished storage sheds $3000 in damage... Broken windows $500 a piece... Wrecked trash cans $150 and $50 litter pickup... It's Destroyed landscaping such as ponds, retaining walls, and decorative plants which may have cost tens of thousands to install. These are big expenses. I deal with these things every day.

I have seen one raccoon mother do over $12,000 worth of damage to a house. I have seen river otters do over $20,000 of damage. Squirrels, over $15,000. Rats, over $30,000. It's not little shit.

We had raccoon's, drove us nuts. I sealed up every possible entry point and they went away. I never had to deal with a river otter, but I think that is straying a little. Unless you know someone who fed them. Pretty much the same with the rest. They are always there.

[Icymudpuppy]

We had raccoon's, drove us nuts. I sealed up every possible entry point and they went away. I never had to deal with a river otter, but I think that is straying a little. Unless you know someone who fed them. Pretty much the same with the rest. They are always there.

Yes, they are always around, but in normal situations, I will solve one problem per neighborhood every other year which as you mentioned is easily solved by simply buttoning up the house. When I have multiple call outs to the same neighborhood every year and the animals are extra aggressive about breaking in to find shelter, (squirrels can chew straight though a supporting wall 2x6 and cause an entire structure to sag), it's always because some idiot is feeding the wildlife.

[Origanalist]

Yes, they are always around, but in normal situations, I will solve one problem per neighborhood every other year which as you mentioned is easily solved by simply buttoning up the house. When I have multiple call outs to the same neighborhood every year and the animals are extra aggressive about breaking in to find shelter, (squirrels can chew straight though a supporting wall 2x6 and cause an entire structure to sag), it's always because some idiot is feeding the wildlife.

Well you do this for a living so you undoubtedly have seen more than me. As a side note, we have two huge nut trees on our block. One right next door and one three houses down, squirrels love them but we don't seem to have any problems other than them teasing the cat. You folks on the east side of the State get a lot colder weather though.

[Icymudpuppy]

Well you do this for a living so you undoubtedly have seen more than me. As a side note, we have two huge nut trees on our block. One right next door and one three houses down, squirrels love them but we don't seem to have any problems other than them teasing the cat. You folks on the east side of the State get a lot colder weather though.

I'm on the west side.

[Origanalist]

I'm on the west side.

Sorry, I thought you were on the east side. My mistake, what area are you in?

[Icymudpuppy]

Sorry, I thought you were on the east side. My mistake, what area are you in?

I advertise from Longview to Bainbridge, (avoiding Seattle) and from the mountains to the coast, but I have worked as far north as Friday Harbor, and gotten calls from Point Roberts, and worked as far south as Vancouver, and gotten calls as far away as Medford, OR. I have worked as far east as Moses Lake, and gotten calls from Spokane.

[LibertyEagle]

Crazy cat lady belongs in an asylum for the mentally unstable, and criminally insane. Animal Hoarding is a mental disease that causes real criminal damage to property.

Where are you getting hoarding from someone feeding birds??????????????????????

[Origanalist]

I advertise from Longview to Bainbridge, (avoiding Seattle) and from the mountains to the coast, but I have worked as far north as Friday Harbor, and gotten calls from Point Roberts, and as worked as far south as Vancouver, and gotten calls as far away as Medford, OR. I have worked as far east as Moses Lake, and gotten calls from Spokane.

Well, that narrows it down. :D I don't doubt you my friend, there are endless stories of nuisance animals wreaking havoc.

[Icymudpuppy]

Where are you getting hoarding from someone feeding birds??????????????????????

Trust me, the neighbors don't call the police on you for just feeding the birds.

[ClydeCoulter]

When looking for property here once, I went to see a place and the guys mom lived behind his house in a mobile home, she fed humming birds, and there must have been hundreds of them buzzing around her porch (it was full length of the front of the mobile home). It was hard to hear her talk over them :)

I usually hang a feeder or 2 on the front porch, but let them go dry in the late fall...

[Anti Federalist]

Trust me, the neighbors don't call the police on you for just feeding the birds.

In today's AmeriKa?

I bet I could find at least one a million instances of that.

And I'm not trying to been contrary either, I'm sure you see plenty of instances of animal damage caused by people keeping/feeding animals.

I still wouldn't call the cops. ;)

[Anti Federalist]

"Arrested for feeding birds"

http://i.imgur.com/gM775yv.jpg

[kcchiefs6465]

A typical bear nuisance problem isn't shit. It's demolished storage sheds $3000 in damage... Broken windows $500 a piece... Wrecked trash cans $150 and $50 litter pickup... It's Destroyed landscaping such as ponds, retaining walls, and decorative plants which may have cost tens of thousands to install. These are big expenses. I deal with these things every day.

I have seen one raccoon mother do over $12,000 worth of damage to a house. I have seen river otters do over $20,000 of damage. Squirrels, over $15,000. Rats, over $30,000. It's not little shit.
Forgive me for perhaps asking a stupid question but why does one not simply shoot the bear? Big target, loud, perhaps clumsy; a .30-06 and you'd have meat to eat.

You cannot defend your property against pests, or at the least, shoot the pests without government sanction. So perhaps, instead of terrorizing the little old lady feeding the pests, incarcerating her--- costing money, time, resources,--- they could be so kind as to allow the culling of said pests. Not even by her, if she did not wish. Am I to believe none are hungry?

Not to happen, though. The law is the law.

I also did not read of any property damage. Not that there could not be some, the news is hardly worthy of a label such as "truth", but I have not seen the neighbor's reports. It could just be a vindictive cunt of a neighbor, you know, they do exist. And forgive me for not trusting that the "law" would have any common sense about themselves or that mitigating factors, such as you have outlined, played into this imprisonment, without bond[!], of all things.

If her neighbors are that worried about the bear she allegedly enticed in, while quite frankly obviously trying to feed other species, they should have [safely and with respect] shot it. They then should have offered her a cut. But I can read through my own lines and see that someone would have gone to jail for even that! So I guess, in short, in this instance and many others, someone must go to jail.

[Origanalist]

"Arrested for feeding birds"

http://i.imgur.com/gM775yv.jpg

It was a airport.....................................

[Anti Federalist]

It was a airport.....................................

Terrorist...

[Carson]

Being in Nuisance wildlife, I wonder how much damage her neighbors were suffering from wildlife getting in their basements, attics, and tearing up their property.

They probably asked multiple times for her to stop feeding the animals, or to at least pay for some of the damage, which she probably refused. Then, the neighbors reported her to police.

I have seen this exact situation happen at least twenty times in my line of work. When my clients' homes are repeatedly being assaulted by starlings, rats, raccoons, squirrels, opossums, skunks, feral cats, and even bears, causing thousands of dollars of damage to the houses, and the person in the neighborhood who is feeding the animals and artificially expanding their population beyond naturally sustainable levels refuses to take any responsibility for the damage those animals are causing, as much as I hate advising it, sometimes getting the law involved is necessary.

These are always elderly women, usually widowed, and can be often accurately depicted by the "crazy cat lady" figure in the Simpson's cartoon.

You make some very valid points Icymudpuppy, curse you. :D

It isn't always old cat ladies. I've been feeding things on and off at times my entire life. I've seen it get out of hand, first hand. Though it is in my nature it is also wise to refrain. Nip it in the bud.

I remember one place I worked the night shift. Sometimes the coyotes would come up when I had the roll up door open. You could see their eyes out there glowing in the dark watching.

What the coyotes and deer watching might have looked like.

http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/morestuff/fark_WrlewsGE33BDAANsPjIHM5DLRLM.gif

I got a good picture of a Pack Rat eating some of my hamburger at lunch one night. That sucker was big. He made that hamburger look like a Ritz cracker (smidge of poetic license). He didn't look mousy. He was the Clydesdale or Cadillac of the rat family. Light on the bottom and dark on the top and clean.

Here is a link to what their burrows would look like in San Diego. They would be three or four feet high. I only heard tales about how big the pack rats were for years. Neither of these pictures convey the size or the coloration of the one I saw. Then I only saw him in a flash picture I took at night sticking my camera out my car widow and just shooting off hand. He had a dark body and big light colored rounded ears. It's a film picture. Some day I'll have to dig it out and scan it digital. He was that awesome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dusky-footed_woodrat

Still...

Your arguments are important to remember. Somewhere we need a balance.

When I was a kid they tried feeding elk during some hard hard winters. Didn't really work out so well in some ways but I can't remember what it was at the moment.

[Suzanimal]

When looking for property here once, I went to see a place and the guys mom lived behind his house in a mobile home, she fed humming birds, and there must have been hundreds of them buzzing around her porch (it was full length of the front of the mobile home). It was hard to hear her talk over them :)

I usually hang a feeder or 2 on the front porch, but let them go dry in the late fall...

I hung about 4 hummingbird feeders around my back porch last spring and it was hilarious. The birds started fighting over them and would zoom at each other and get their beaks stuck in the screen. I'm going to move them next summer because it made getting into the house from the pool...interesting. I think we had about 40 or 50 of them - it got kind of expensive and tedious feeding them.

Right now I have a house wren problem, they've built a nest in my garage and come in the garage through my doggie door, seriously. I'm going have to get video, I've never seen birds use a doggie door before.

Were the the officers ok?

[phill4paul]

I hung about 4 hummingbird feeders around my back porch last spring and it was hilarious. The birds started fighting over them and would zoom at each other and get their beaks stuck in the screen. I'm going to move them next summer because it made getting into the house from the pool...interesting. I think we had about 40 or 50 of them - it got kind of expensive and tedious feeding them.

Right now I have a house wren problem, they've built a nest in my garage and come in the garage through my doggie door, seriously. I'm going have to get video, I've never seen birds use a doggie door before.

A friend of mines dad shot this vid of a praying mantis w/ hummingbirds. Listen to it squell. You should be ashamed for inviting them in for mantises to dine on.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWqTZErviJI

[Suzanimal]

A friend of mines dad shot this vid of a praying mantis w/ hummingbirds. Listen to it squell. You should be ashamed for inviting them in for mantises to dine on.

:eek:

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

...but why does one not simply shoot the bear? Big target, loud, perhaps clumsy; a .30-06 and you'd have meat to eat.




Sorry low life, that is only a function of government. You should be ashamed for even suggesting that anyone outside of government could even handle such a rifle. Bullets would be everywhere from misses. Imagine neighbors at a cookout falling over from stray shots.

And if you're thinking about eating any kind of animal like that, then you'd better clear it with the DNR, the health department, and other interested officials. Do you even know what bears eat?! The contamination from other mundanes feeding them has been documented in the peer reviewed journals.

And the children. Can you imagine the children? You think The Three Bears is some kind of cute story?! How traumatic it would be for an innocent boy to stare into the hungry eyes of a tremendous papa bear!

I want everyone to perish all thoughts of this ridiculous rifle suggestion. I even recommend that the moderators delete or at least edit post number 38.

[pcosmar]

Being in Nuisance wildlife, I wonder how much damage her neighbors were suffering from wildlife getting in their basements, attics, and tearing up their property.

They probably asked multiple times for her to stop feeding the animals, or to at least pay for some of the damage, which she probably refused. Then, the neighbors reported her to police.

I have seen this exact situation happen at least twenty times in my line of work. When my clients' homes are repeatedly being assaulted by starlings, rats, raccoons, squirrels, opossums, skunks, feral cats, and even bears, causing thousands of dollars of damage to the houses, and the person in the neighborhood who is feeding the animals and artificially expanding their population beyond naturally sustainable levels refuses to take any responsibility for the damage those animals are causing, as much as I hate advising it, sometimes getting the law involved is necessary.

These are always elderly women, usually widowed, and can be often accurately depicted by the "crazy cat lady" figure in the Simpson's cartoon.

Yeah.. it wouldn't have anything to do with building a House in the animals territory..:rolleyes:

[asurfaholic]

Sounds to me like the only proper course of action is for any victims file a civil suit against the lady.

Then, they present their case and evidence of her attracting wildlife to a judge. If the victim is truly a victim, then the defendant will be forced to pay damages. If she continues to feed the wildlife, then I don't see a problem with her being arrested.

But IMO the first step ( after nicely asking her to stop ) is to sue her.

Then the only cops involved is the civil department at the sheriffs office.

[pcosmar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL7Se4xoYq4

[Todd]

Being in Nuisance wildlife, I wonder how much damage her neighbors were suffering from wildlife getting in their basements, attics, and tearing up their property.

They probably asked multiple times for her to stop feeding the animals, or to at least pay for some of the damage, which she probably refused. Then, the neighbors reported her to police.

I have seen this exact situation happen at least twenty times in my line of work. When my clients' homes are repeatedly being assaulted by starlings, rats, raccoons, squirrels, opossums, skunks, feral cats, and even bears, causing thousands of dollars of damage to the houses, and the person in the neighborhood who is feeding the animals and artificially expanding their population beyond naturally sustainable levels refuses to take any responsibility for the damage those animals are causing, as much as I hate advising it, sometimes getting the law involved is necessary.

These are always elderly women, usually widowed, and can be often accurately depicted by the "crazy cat lady" figure in the Simpson's cartoon.

^
Getting ready to say the same thing. If these Bears were in her yard and her neighbors are in close proximity, and I happened to be here neighbor, then chances are they are crossing my property at some point to get to hers. If I'm her neighbor, then my kids play in my yard. Is she not putting them at direct risk? A Bear is a Predator, not a deer or a play toy.

[tod evans]

^
Getting ready to say the same thing. If these Bears were in her yard and her neighbors are in close proximity, then chances are they are crossing my property at some point to get to hers. If I'm her neighbor, then my kids play in my yard. Is she not putting them at direct risk? A Bear is a Predator, not a deer or a play toy.

Deer can be quite hazardous in close quarters...

[pcosmar]

A Bear is a Predator, not a deer or a play toy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr4VHamZ27w


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jK0AkcVsVI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVy9DvmwVi0

And Bears are Scavengers,, not Predators.

[pcosmar]

More Florida Bears.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJTuOZ44g3A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRDCLcVGmUE

The bears are not moving into the suburbs,, The suburbs are moving into the bears home.

[kcchiefs6465]

http://i.imgur.com/SeQyFMU.png?1

Lmao.

[Todd]

For those of you who can't distinguish between the danger of a Bear and a Deer, I'm sorry. I don't know too many people that shit bricks when they see a Deer walk through their yards but then I'm open to the possibility that you all just have more dangerous encounters with your local deer population than I have.

[MelissaWV]

For those of you who can't distinguish between the danger of a Bear and a Deer, I'm sorry. I don't know too many people that shit bricks when they see a Deer walk through their yards but then I'm open to the possibility that you all just have more dangerous encounters with your local deer population than I have.

Look up how many people die or are seriously injured during encounters with deer versus bears. Many of those encounters involve vehicles, but some do not, and deer can and will leap through glass, get really angry at your car, fight your pets, and come at you with their antlers... which are no joke.

* * *

Bears can be a hell of a nuisance, yeah, but so can a lot of other animals. It's what happens when people build near "wildlife preserves" and other green areas, mostly. I live in one of those areas but the wildlife doesn't bother me. We have wood piggies digging up our yard on a regular basis (they are probably rooting for acorns, which fall from nearby trees), and they are not gentle about it. We have snakes, which is good because they keep down the plague-level frog population around the house. We have raccoons, armadillos, possums (gross), gators in the nearby creeks and lakes, hawks, vultures, bats, fire ants, skeeters, deer, foxes, squirrels, rats, big ole honkin' spiders, bunnies, turkeys, and other things I can't recall off the top of my head. Idiots are going to feed some of those at any given time, particularly the gators. They become less afraid of people and associate them with food. Not a good combination if you have kids.

I don't think jail's a good answer to this, do you? The animals are still going to come around for a time, not to mention they're now more likely to get hungry and desperate since she is no longer feeding them.

[oyarde]

God Bless her.

I can only hope to be resisting arrest at 81.

Hell yes .

[oyarde]

I hung about 4 hummingbird feeders around my back porch last spring and it was hilarious. The birds started fighting over them and would zoom at each other and get their beaks stuck in the screen. I'm going to move them next summer because it made getting into the house from the pool...interesting. I think we had about 40 or 50 of them - it got kind of expensive and tedious feeding them.

Right now I have a house wren problem, they've built a nest in my garage and come in the garage through my doggie door, seriously. I'm going have to get video, I've never seen birds use a doggie door before.

Were the the officers ok?

My wrens in the garage fly in and out of a couple windows I leave open.Then I have more that nest on the back porch .

[MelissaWV]

My wrens in the garage fly in and out of a couple windows I leave open.Then I have more that nest on the back porch .

The wrens here can't get in and out of (or around... long story) our garage easily, so we sacrifice decorative items for them. A pair made a nest in some of our front porch lamps, and were pretty cozy except the male never came back one day and the female had to abandon the nest permanently. It happens. A previous year we had some adorable little mockingbirds that nested in our front door wreath. The best part is that it's one of those doors with a big glass panel in the middle of each side, so we could very gently pull aside the curtain and be within an inch of the pinfeathered nest occupants. Honestly, front door wreaths are great for harboring birdies :) They grew up fine and all three left the nest on schedule.

[Lindsey]

A typical bear nuisance problem isn't shit. It's demolished storage sheds $3000 in damage... Broken windows $500 a piece... Wrecked trash cans $150 and $50 litter pickup... It's Destroyed landscaping such as ponds, retaining walls, and decorative plants which may have cost tens of thousands to install. These are big expenses. I deal with these things every day.

I have seen one raccoon mother do over $12,000 worth of damage to a house. I have seen river otters do over $20,000 of damage. Squirrels, over $15,000. Rats, over $30,000. It's not little shit.

Is this covered by home insurance? WHy would it not be a civil as opposed to criminal matter?

[Icymudpuppy]

Most insurance will not cover pests of any kind. Allstate, Pemco, Safeco, and Heritage usually will. Farmers does on their deluxe policies. The rest do not. When damages exceed $2000 plaintiffs can seek both civil and criminal charges.

Also, most insurance adjusters will look for reasons to escape the penalties. Their policies usually have exclusions for "neighbor's pets" which puts the onus for damages on the neighbor's policy. Since wildlife that are being fed and semi tamed can be considered pets, the insurance company will require the homeowner to seek damage from their neighbor's policy. If their crazy cat lady neighbor's insurance (if they have any) refuses to pay, and crazy cat lady has no assets, then you're back to square one, hoping that you can force criminal charges to get her to stop creating the problem in the first place. Which obviously happened already in this case since the crazy animal feeder was given a cease and desist order a year prior.

[oyarde]

Most insurance will not cover pests of any kind. Allstate, Pemco, Safeco, and Heritage usually will. Farmers does on their deluxe policies. The rest do not. When damages exceed $2000 plaintiffs can seek both civil and criminal charges.

I was wondering about that , I have no idea about mine , but kind of doubt it , I am sure nothing about any of mine is " deluxe" .

[pcosmar]

Trust me, the neighbors don't call the police on you for just feeding the birds.

Trust me,, Asshole neighbors will call Police/Code enforcement over nothing.

Had a SWAT team arrest some neighbors for having a water gun fight in their yard.. because of an asshole neighbor.

[Lindsey]

Most insurance will not cover pests of any kind. Allstate, Pemco, Safeco, and Heritage usually will. Farmers does on their deluxe policies. The rest do not. When damages exceed $2000 plaintiffs can seek both civil and criminal charges.

Good to know. Even here in a long established town, with a very high population density, we have a ton of wildlife. I have to suspect that pest damage would be one of the most common types of claims on property insurance. (I have no real knowledge of this - just a guess)

[MelissaWV]

Good to know. Even here in a long established town, with a very high population density, we have a ton of wildlife. I have to suspect that pest damage would be one of the most common types of claims on property insurance. (I have no real knowledge of this - just a guess)

Attempts to file claims for water damage are right up there. Most policies are very sneaky about which water damage they cover, so a large number are denied.

[oyarde]

Attempts to file claims for water damage are right up there. Most policies are very sneaky about which water damage they cover, so a large number are denied.

Yeah , I do not even think you could get money for water damage without flood ins ?

[MelissaWV]

Yeah , I do not even think you could get money for water damage without flood ins ?

It depends on what it is. The claims I'm talking about aren't for floods, but usually for things like burst pipes or malfunctioning pumps in basements.

[Todd]

Look up how many people die or are seriously injured during encounters with deer versus bears. Many of those encounters involve vehicles, but some do not, and deer can and will leap through glass, get really angry at your car, fight your pets, and come at you with their antlers... which are no joke.

* * *



I live in a very rural area. I see roughly 200 times the number of deer a year for every bear I encounter. Not once when I encountered 20 deer feeding on the acorns on my lawn did I think to need to call the kids and the 3 dogs in for fear a deer would get really angry and fight or attack or try to carry one off for lunch.

I'm not disagreeing with the problems created by the sheer POPULATION excess of deer.....and how that leads to more encounters that can damage vehicles and such.
This story is about a woman baiting and animal that has a disposition to occasionally like a good meat meal. I thinks some are being intellectually dishonest about the nature of a deer over a bear

Only on RPF can we get a discussion where people argue that a Deer is more threatening than a bear. :D

The only reason we are discussing it is because someone latched onto the word I used to create a "Red herring" argument to prove that a woman baiting bears isn't a problem for other property owners.

I'll stop talking about the damn deer now if you all can refute the central point and prove that baiting bears is beneficial for other property owners safety and in their best interest.

[MelissaWV]

I live in a very rural area. I see roughly 200 times the number of deer a year for every bear I encounter. Not once when I encountered 20 deer feeding on the acorns on my lawn did I think to need to call the kids and the 3 dogs in for fear a deer would get really angry and fight or attack or try to carry one off for lunch.

I'm not disagreeing with the problems created by the sheer POPULATION excess of deer.....and how that leads to more encounters that can damage vehicles and such.
This story is about a woman baiting and animal that has a disposition to occasionally like a good meat meal. I thinks some are being intellectually dishonest about the nature of a deer over a bear

Only on RPF can we get a discussion where people argue that a Deer is more threatening than a bear.

The only reason we are discussing it is because someone latched onto the word I used to create a "Red herring" argument to prove that a woman baiting bears isn't a problem for other property owners.

I'll stop talking about the damn deer now if you all can refute the central point and prove that baiting bears is beneficial for other property owners safety and in their best interest.

Again, look at the number of attacks by black bears. There are several ready lists. People freak out because they are big and have claws, but there's little foundation for it. Looks like most lists I find mention all of four fatal attacks since 2010. Four.


The hunter became the hunted when a Clinton, La., man was attacked by a massive deer he had wounded on his property.

According to Bayou Bucks magazine, Bobby Neames was airlifted to a Baton Rouge hospital and nearly bled to death after the buck gored him through his left thigh on Christmas Eve.


^ Those are way more common.


If you ask most folks what's the most dangerous wild animal in North America, you’d probably get an array of answers ranging from grizzly bears to rattlesnakes.

Chances are the whitetail deer wouldn’t rank high on the guess list.

Yet that’s where deer rate – the No. 1 cause of injuries and deaths to humans every year.

So you can cut the "only on RPFs" part of things. It's stupid.

That's neither here nor there, though, and I did not argue she was doing some kind of service to her neighbors. My question, though, is whether people have stopped to consider that removing her and not addressing the animals themselves creates a much greater danger.

[kcchiefs6465]

I'll stop talking about the damn deer now if you all can refute the central point and prove that baiting bears is beneficial for other property owners safety and in their best interest.
Depends on the property owner, I'd imagine.

Oyarde, how would you feel about your neighbors baiting animals for you? LOL..

I'm sure the lady isn't specifically trying to bait bears. One most likely just traveled up or down a stream and stumbled upon her bird feeder. If the animal was an issue, you cannot tell me that there is not someone who would take care of that issue. The police would come, or animal wildlife to tranquilize and if negligible, bill her for the services. Or someone hungry would shoot it for food etc.

To lock a possibly senile elderly person up, for feeding animals, without bail, is far into "excessive." Who knows if she just doesn't have anybody else and likes the squirrels and birds? When she dies from the stress of being caged, or from staph, or any other thing, as a society it should be asked, was it worth it? I'd argue no.

[oyarde]

Depends on the property owner, I'd imagine.

Oyarde, how would you feel about your neighbors baiting animals for you? LOL..

I'm sure the lady isn't specifically trying to bait bears. One most likely just traveled up or down a stream and stumbled upon her bird feeder. If the animal was an issue, you cannot tell me that there is not someone who would take care of that issue. The police would come, or animal wildlife to tranquilize and if negligible, bill her for the services. Or someone hungry would shoot it for food etc.

To lock a possibly senile elderly person up, for feeding animals, without bail, is far into "excessive." Who knows if she just doesn't have anybody else and likes the squirrels and birds? When she dies from the stress of being caged, or from staph, or any other thing, as a society it should be asked, was it worth it? I'd argue no.

Closest thing to me is a bed and breakfast empty about 80 % of the time , you can see it in the winter. If they want to bait animals for me :) , I will send them a Christmas card .

[oyarde]

Depends on the property owner, I'd imagine.

Oyarde, how would you feel about your neighbors baiting animals for you? LOL..

I'm sure the lady isn't specifically trying to bait bears. One most likely just traveled up or down a stream and stumbled upon her bird feeder. If the animal was an issue, you cannot tell me that there is not someone who would take care of that issue. The police would come, or animal wildlife to tranquilize and if negligible, bill her for the services. Or someone hungry would shoot it for food etc.

To lock a possibly senile elderly person up, for feeding animals, without bail, is far into "excessive." Who knows if she just doesn't have anybody else and likes the squirrels and birds? When she dies from the stress of being caged, or from staph, or any other thing, as a society it should be asked, was it worth it? I'd argue no.

I am amazed she is locked up without bail . How do you justify that .....

[Origanalist]

I am amazed she is locked up without bail . How do you justify that .....

"That" covers a lot of territory these days.

[tod evans]

Closest thing to me is a bed and breakfast empty about 80 % of the time , you can see it in the winter. If they want to bait animals for me :) , I will send them a Christmas card .

Baiting deer used to consist of taking a 5# tin of government peanut-butter, you know the really greasy shit back in the early 70's, and smearing it on a downed tree then pressing sweet-feed into it...

Sit in the truck 30-50 yrds back and sip beer and listen to the radio as the sun came up...The deer didn't care, it's like the more racket we made the more at ease they got...Wait 'till everyone had a bead and drop the hammer.

Now-a-days they'll send in the goon squad..

[oyarde]

"That" covers a lot of territory these days.

Yes it does

[kcchiefs6465]

Closest thing to me is a bed and breakfast empty about 80 % of the time , you can see it in the winter. If they want to bait animals for me :) , I will send them a Christmas card .
God bless that there is some sanity left in this country.

Instead of putting down a perhaps nuisance animal and feeding the hungry, they'd sooner imprison an elderly woman. They'll probably shoot this bear later, the next time it comes back. And poor bleach on the meat. That what I just said is even possible, if not probable, is a sign of the times. I can't wait to have a few dozen acres, at least.

[pcosmar]

I am amazed she is locked up without bail . How do you justify that .....

Resisting arrest.

[Anti Federalist]

Resisting arrest.

She did this to herself.

[Pericles]

Look up how many people die or are seriously injured during encounters with deer versus bears. Many of those encounters involve vehicles, but some do not, and deer can and will leap through glass, get really angry at your car, fight your pets, and come at you with their antlers... which are no joke.

* * *

Bears can be a hell of a nuisance, yeah, but so can a lot of other animals. It's what happens when people build near "wildlife preserves" and other green areas, mostly. I live in one of those areas but the wildlife doesn't bother me. We have wood piggies digging up our yard on a regular basis (they are probably rooting for acorns, which fall from nearby trees), and they are not gentle about it. We have snakes, which is good because they keep down the plague-level frog population around the house. We have raccoons, armadillos, possums (gross), gators in the nearby creeks and lakes, hawks, vultures, bats, fire ants, skeeters, deer, foxes, squirrels, rats, big ole honkin' spiders, bunnies, turkeys, and other things I can't recall off the top of my head. Idiots are going to feed some of those at any given time, particularly the gators. They become less afraid of people and associate them with food. Not a good combination if you have kids.

I don't think jail's a good answer to this, do you? The animals are still going to come around for a time, not to mention they're now more likely to get hungry and desperate since she is no longer feeding them.

Sounds like a good reason for "high capacity" magazines to me.

[devil21]

Possums...gross

I like possums. There's one that's hung around my house and I see him/her late at night sometimes. I don't mind throwing him some salad scraps to enjoy in the dark on occasion.

[devil21]

It's worth noting that Hillsborough Sheriff online shows no matches to her name as a jail inmate that I can find.

eta: wrong county, she's in Highlands County.

[devil21]

double post

[tangent4ronpaul]

What??? :eek: and they didn't shoot the bears in the name of officer safety?

The quality of some of these PD's is really dropping...

:rolleyes:

-t

[tod evans]

It's worth noting that Hillsborough Sheriff online shows no matches to her name as a jail inmate that I can find.

Surely they haven't already killed the old bird?

[Origanalist]

Surely they haven't already killed the old bird?

Don't count on it.

[devil21]

Surely they haven't already killed the old bird?

SCRATCH THAT - WAS SEARCHING WRONG COUNTY
Dunno what to make of it. Their website is kinda clunky and not intuitive. Searches for current inmates and past arrests don't return anything in her name that I can find. I could be looking in the wrong county or something though.
------------------------------

update: She's listed in Highlands County sheriff online arrests. Pending charges: Probation violation, resisting arrest, assault on LEO. Looks like she's still in jail.

[Origanalist]

SCRATCH THAT - WAS SEARCHING WRONG COUNTY
Dunno what to make of it. Their website is kinda clunky and not intuitive. Searches for current inmates and past arrests don't return anything in her name that I can find. I could be looking in the wrong county or something though.
------------------------------

update: She's listed in Highlands County sheriff online arrests. Pending charges: Probation violation, resisting arrest, assault on LEO

There is no limit to how far these law enforcement chickenshits will debase themselves. Assault by a 81 year old woman?

[devil21]

There is no limit to how far these law enforcement chickenshits will debase themselves. Assault by a 81 year old woman?

She's listed at 5'0 and 91 pounds.

[Origanalist]

She's listed at 5'0 and 91 pounds.

Cowards, I couldn't look at myself in the mirror.

[tod evans]

She's listed at 5'0 and 91 pounds.

12 fine officers replete with fully automatic weapons and a bearcat or two to apprehend this wild scofflaw no doubt...:mad:

[devil21]

Update on this story....still in jail, pending court ordered mental evaluation:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/05/mary-musselman-feeds-crows_n_4905249.html?utm_hp_ref=crime

[Mini-Me]

She's a danger to herself. Execute her, for her own good. :rolleyes:

[DamianTV]

How about instead of arresting her, we point out that other people have the potential to be harmed by her actions? We dont need a law against it, just application of fucking Common Sense. Feednig bears only encourages those bears to become less fearful of Humans, and most Humans and Bears dont interact very well. This whole situation is something that would be best handled by her Neighbors and others that would be affected by her actions, not Cops or Govt. As soon as Govt gets involved, it just fucks the whole thing up. The proposed solution would be to take everything from every offender, then outlaw Bears. Im half suprised our idiot Govt hasnt tried to outlaw Water because people drown in water, and sharks live in water. And water kills a lot more people every year than Bears.

[Cutlerzzz]

She's listed at 5'0 and 91 pounds.

You can't just look at size and age. She's a criminal. You have no idea just how scary and dangerous she might be.

[DamianTV]

You can't just look at size and age. She's a criminal. You have no idea just how scary and dangerous she might be.

She might even smoke weed! Or worse, feed weed to bears! Last thing we need is Stoner Bears!

[Anti Federalist]

Update on this story....still in jail, pending court ordered mental evaluation:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/05/mary-musselman-feeds-crows_n_4905249.html?utm_hp_ref=crime

Welp, that's the end of her.

Into the County pysch ward for the rest of her natural life.

Bet the state gets her home too.

Freedom.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Welp, that's the end of her.

Into the County pysch ward for the rest of her natural life.

Bet the state gets her home too.

Freedom.Standard Operating Procedure(SOP)... is for the government to declare anyone mentally unable to stand trial for a case to go to court. I keep thinking of Iraqi CIA handler Susan Lindauer, who was locked-up for over a year, and when it came time for the trial and exposing the government and their operations(Richard Fuse, etc), the Court deemed the American "Unfit" to stand trail, so the illegal rights violations for the arrest and incarceration, cannot be brought to a trial.

[Cutlerzzz]

She might even smoke weed! Or worse, feed weed to bears! Last thing we need is Stoner Bears!

There ought to be a law.

[Mani]

Welp, that's the end of her.

Into the County pysch ward for the rest of her natural life.

Bet the state gets her home too.

Freedom.

Yup I read that as well. The whole Mentally ILL thing just came up. Now she's in their clutches, she will be in padded walls the rest of her days. For leaving bread on her backyard.

The police state marches on and the PIC keeps the $$$ going.

[Spikender]

Fuck them all.

Every single part of the justice system is a twisted mockery of justice, whatever that actually is considering that it is and always has been perverted to benefit the state.

Fucking mental evaluation for a women leaving birdfeed, corn, and bread in her backyard? Are you fucking serious?

At worst she just lacks sympathy for her neighbors, she was just being nice to the animals at perhaps the detriment of those around her. No bail, jailed, and facing being called insane?

The officers and all involved in this need to be in padded cells where they can't lay their filthy fucking hands on innocent citizens any longer.

[DamianTV]

Standard Operating Procedure(SOP)... is for the government to declare anyone mentally unable to stand trial for a case to go to court. I keep thinking of Iraqi CIA handler Susan Lindauer, who was locked-up for over a year, and when it came time for the trial and exposing the government and their operations(Richard Fuse, etc), the Court deemed the American "Unfit" to stand trail, so the illegal rights violations for the arrest and incarceration, cannot be brought to a trial.

And what happens when your Govt is literally insane? Read the textbook definition sometime. Govt qualifies perfectly for insanity.

[Anti Federalist]

A picture of the vicious criminal.

http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/MaryMusselman.png

[Wooden Indian]

A picture of the vicious criminal.

http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/MaryMusselman.png

And I've seen a couple of posts here... on the Ron Paul Forums, excusing and even defending that poor gramma's kidnapping. The indoctrination of every U.S. citizen is nearly complete.

Bird seed? Fucking birdseed! A neighbor MAY have had a shed damaged, they had no choice, huh?
This is a life sentence, sure... but, Jesus, alleged shed repair is getting pricey, right, gang? Armed thugs were necessary.

In the immortal words of one Eric Cartman....
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bc1sfsvJ_G4/UKvP2UXidxI/AAAAAAAAHCs/z9rkaUfS1oE/s1600/cartman-screw-you-guys.jpg